Coffee House Shots
Isabel Hardman's Sunday Roundup - 22/09/2024
(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to Coffee House Shots, the spectator's daily politics podcast. I'm Isabelle Hardman and this is the Sunday Roundup. The Labour Party conference has got off to an awkward start. The senior figures continue to battle controversy around donations. Kissed on as approval rating has plummeted and anger persists over the winter fuel allowance being restricted to pensioners just on pension credit. Speaking to Laura Coonsburg in Liverpool, Deputy Prime Minister Angela Raina defended her holiday stay in a New York apartment gifted to her by Lord Ali. - One thing that's emerged in the Sunday Times this morning is you went to New York with someone who was then another Labour MP, Sam Terry. The rules state that this needs to be registered if it was part or all of the visit was paid for by someone else and you didn't register that. So you weren't transparent about that. Did you break the rules? - Well, first of all, I didn't go to New York with another person. That person went to New York and I met up with them and I met up with a number of friends while I was in New York. It was a personal holiday and I think I followed the rules. In fact, I went above that and I wanted to do that to be transparent about the connection that I had of the use of that apartment. - But they stayed in that apartment, Sam Terry. He used to be a Labour MP, stayed in that apartment and you didn't declare it. Did you break the rules? - I don't believe I broke any rules. I had the use of the apartment and I disclosed that I had the use of the apartment. In fact, I think I was overly transparent because I think it was important, despite it being a personal holiday, because that person as a friend had already donated to me in the past for my deputy. - So you're not sorry for doing that? - You're not sorry for that. For that, you're not saying to people this morning, you know what, maybe that was a misjudgment. Maybe I should have declared absolutely everything because the rules are just read that to our viewers. Members should register in this category any visit, whether accompanying the member or not. It says pretty clearly, if someone else is with you, you were meant to declare it and you didn't. - It says if you're on parliamentary business or it's in connection with your parliamentary duties, that's how I understood it. It was a private holiday that I think it was important that people knew because I'd had a relationship where I'd had a donation from that individual, a substantial donation, to help me towards becoming the deputy leader because I had to run my campaign. I thought it was important that people knew that I'd used their apartment for a couple of days. I paid for the holiday myself. You know, the other person independently paid for theirs and did whatever they were doing. And I disclosed what I felt was the right thing to do. The Deputy Prime Minister and Housing Secretary was vague when pressed to give a specific target for social housing building, saying there were so many moving parts. - And you've just said you want to be measured, but you won't put a target on it or even a proportion. There are a million people waiting for council housing, our social housing. And can you give us a proportion of what you'd expect? 'Cause the biggest wave, that doesn't mean anything without any sense of a number on it. - Well, it will mean something because there's a couple of changes we're making. So we will increase significantly the amount of council and social housing that we've got. - But that much. - But as we've said before, around things like right to buy, we're reviewing that as well and looking at how we can make sure that we're not losing council houses at the rate we are now and not replacing them. So we're doing a consultation on that. So there's a number of things we're doing that will fix the system to make sure that we get more council and social housing. - Well, I want to press you a bit further on the number because if there isn't a target for something you say you care about, often in government, if there's not a target on something, it just doesn't happen. But you mentioned-- - Well, the reason why I won't put an exact figure on it is because there's so many moving parts that actually, depending on where the sites become available. So like I say, I have my golden rules for the new towns. I have my rules around the release of gray belt and brownfield sites. They're all very different. And what we've been very clear on is we want to see more social housing, but we also have to stop the amount that we're losing at the rate we are and we're not able to replace. - So why not get rid of rights by completely? That's what Quijo where this is morning wants you to do. - I know Quijo wants me to do that. But look, if you've lived in a house for a very long time and you've been paying rent, that's your home, you've raised your children in it. I don't believe you should not have the right to buy. But I think there has to be a balance as well. The changes that the previous government made has made it a lot easier with a huge discount for people to buy the social housing and we just cannot replace them. And therefore, I've started a consultation because I believe that we should make it more fair to the tax payer who help fund social housing so that we don't lose the sites as quickly as we are. - But you're going to make it harder for people to buy their council house that even though you benefited from it, isn't it? - Under the previous rules, I benefited from it. And that's why I think it's important to people. It was incredibly important to me. I can't tell you in words what it meant to me. I've lived in council hours in normal life to be able to buy that property. It was incredibly important. But the changes that the government made, made it so that people could get a bigger discount and quicker and we can't replace that stock at the moment at the rate we need to. And therefore, that's why we can sort in to have a fair system that says, if you've lived in the house for a long time, it's your family home, you can get a discount, but it has to be leveled against and balanced against replacing that stock. - Keir Starmer is also facing a standoff with the trade unions over the winter fuel allowance. On Sky News, Unite General Secretary Sharon Graham said she wanted Starmer to reverse his decision. - What do you want to hear from Keir Starmer in his leader's speech? - Well, I think the priority that I'd like to hear from him is that he's going to reverse the decision on the winter fuel allowance. It's a cruel policy, he needs to reverse it. And I'd like him to say that he's made a misstep and to reverse that policy. I'd also like him to say that we're not gonna take this country down austerity mark two. People voted for change, they need to see change and he needs to reverse the winter fuel allowance and let people have that 300 pounds so they can put their heating on this winter. - That is quite a big ask. You were asking him to say, I made a mistake. Party leaders don't do that. - Well, look, sometimes people do make mistakes. Leaders, I think, should do that. The reality here is it is a misstep. You've got a situation where the poorest in our society, the first thing that labor does is take away the winter fuel allowance from the poorest in our society whilst they leave the most wealthiest people pretty much untouched. The top 50 families in Britain, the most wealthiest families in Britain, are worth 500 billion pounds, 500 billion pounds. That's the same as half of Britain. Why was that not the choice made? Why wasn't the choice made to tax the wealthy? Why would you hit pensioners? It's completely wrong and they need to reverse it. - Shadow House of Commons leader Chris Phelps suggested to Koonzburg that the amount of donations given to senior labor figures was inappropriate and weird. Koonzburg asked if his party were really in a position to attack labor over this. - Have you personally accepted any freebies? - So I am wearing a suit that I paid for myself. I have not accepted any free personal donations. I have been to the old event in connection with my ministerial duties. So, for example, when I was a minister at DCMS, I went to the BAFTA's and when I was police minister, I went to see the policing of a football game. But I have not done what Kia Starr has done, which is accept more freebies than any other MP. There are 650 MPs and he has accepted far more freebies than any other MP and frankly accepting free clothes and luxury designer goods for his wife. Frankly strikes me as just a bit weird and to be honest, inappropriate as well. - But many of your colleagues in your own party have had all sorts of embarrassments over donations and gifts. You're not really in a position to attack the Labour Party on this, are you, after the last few years? - Don't forget I resigned as a minister in Boris Johnson's government on issues of ethics and integrity. So I feel I've done my bit towards that cleaning up British politics. But don't forget, it's Kia Starr has accepted more than any other MP and the person who made those donations, Wahid Ali, Lord Ali, was giving money to Kia Starrmer, to rate the luxury apartment to Rachel, to Angela Rayner as we heard a short while ago. He gave money to Sue Gray's son in his re-election campaign. He's now a Labour MP and it would appear that in exchange for that, he got a Downing Street pass. He has apparently been advising on appointments, critical appointments and we're told, the repressible say- - We told Angela Rayner about that at length, Mr. Phil. And we talked to Angela Rayner about that at length but I'm asking you about your own party. And as you said, you were one of many ministers who resigned over concerns about integrity. So, given how much of a problem that was for previous conservative governments, isn't it a bit rich for you now as a party to be trying to lecture a Labour on it? When, as they would say, they haven't broken rules, they've been transparent. - Well, as I said, I personally resigned from the government in protest at these sort of issues, so I feel that I've done my bit. But what we're seeing here is, you know, Labour Party donors getting appointed to civil service positions. We didn't discuss that with Angela Rayner. And I think about 12 people who are politically connected to the Labour Party being put into civil service roles that are supposed to be impartial. And this man, Wahid Ali, Lord Ali, being put into the heart of Downing Street, apparently advising on appointments when he's been giving money to the Labour Party, to individuals, buying clothes for people, giving people luxury holiday apartments, to Angela Rayner. And he's been given enormous influence and access as a result of that. - Lastly, the unprecedented Pager and Wookiee Talkie bomb attacks in Lebanon shocked the world this week and left Israel on the brink of a full-scale regional conflict. In an interview with Israeli President Isaac Herzog, Trevor Phillips, asked if Israel was now at war with Lebanon. - Are you saying now that Israel has decided, in essence, to abandon restraint, that the Wookiee Talkie bombs, the air attacks in the last few days, are really the way that things are going to happen from now on. - I actually reiterated over the weekend the simple message of Israel. We do not want war. We absolutely did not seek this war. We didn't want this war. This war was instigated by the Empire of Evil, the Iranian proxies in the region under the command of Iran, from the south, from Hamas, from the north, but Hezbollah, from Yemen, by the Houthis, from Iraq, from all over the place, as part of a strategy, as the Supreme Leader of Iran just said yesterday, that Israel is a tumor that must be removed. So, therefore, Israel is fighting for its well-being, its existence, its citizens. That's what we are doing and we are doing. Whatever is the right thing to do. I think for a moment had the border with citizens been evacuated to Manchester for a year under attacks from one of the neighbors, or Brighton. How long would the British government be restrained? So, we actually have decided to change the equation and we are working to change this equation, meaning we have to bring our hostages back from Gaza and we have to make sure that this attack does not recur from Gaza. And we have to make sure that this attack does not recur again from Lebanon. That's all there is. It's very simple and life can go on in a peaceful manner on an internationally recognized boundary between Israel and Lebanon. Mr. President, I want to come back to some of those issues in a second, but just if we can get one thing clear, is Israel now at war with Lebanon? Israel is not interested to be at war with Lebanon. I'm actually saying something very, very clear. We do not want to get into a war with Lebanon, but Lebanon has been hijacked by a terror organization which is also a political party in Lebanon called Hezbollah. It's been armed to its teeth by the Iranian Empire of evil. And all of these leaders who are eradicated on Friday by the Israeli attack, all of these leaders were meeting together in order to launch the same horrific horrendous attack that we had on October 7th by Hamas, by burning Israelis, butchering them, raping their women, abducting and taking hostage old people and young and little babies to, this is exactly the same plan that they've been planning for years under the plans of the Empire of evil over Iran. So we are fighting, actually, the whole world, the war for the entire free world. That's what we are doing. We don't want to get to war, we don't. We want to bring our citizens back to their homes on the border with Lebanon. - That's all for this week. I'm Isabel Hardman, and this podcast was produced by Joe Biddell-Brell. Don't forget to subscribe to the Coffee House Shot Squad cast on the iTunes store. And if you enjoyed this podcast, do subscribe to our daily evening blend email. It's a free round up of all the political news each day, along with analysis and a diary on what to expect next. Just go to spectator.co.uk/blend. Thanks for listening. Do join us again next week. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (gentle music)