-Hey, Leo. -Hi, Steven. -We have a first in "Spoils of Horror" history. -Another one? -Another one. -Oh, it hurts before. -We're always blazing trails. Anytime we set up this intro, I always write a little note to myself that says what the intro is going to be. I'm going to talk about my hippie, grocery store, or something funny that happened or whatnot. So I wrote a note to myself a couple of weeks ago that says intro, "Sitting in Romulus," and I have no fucking idea what that means. You know what? I don't think I can actually say anything to that the way my brain has constantly switched itself and forgotten things. I think it means that you had a place called Romulus that is your special place, and you were just comfortable in it. Now, what a weird coincidence that the new Alien movie also happened to be called "Alien Romulus," but I happen to be talking about my happy place. One comfy spot that you don't tell anyone about it, it's out there. I know, we all have it. I mean, I like to the movie, but I can't think of anything particularly funny that happened or strange or interesting while I watched it. I like that you're there with your popcorn and a blanket around you, and you're just like a kid being super cozy with a picture of a kid with a hot chocolate in front of a fireplace. I'm a little like that when I'm at a horror movie. I feel like comfortable, I feel like I'm around my own people. Oh, sure. Yeah. Maybe it was because the memory was just so nice and sweet, although I really can't imagine I would bring up something like that on the show. A nice sweet memory here. I will say this, though. I went with a pal of mine who's just a movie fan, not necessarily a horror fan. And he fucking jumped out of his seat every single time there was a jump scare. And I spent that movie laughing uncontrollably, because I forgot what it was like to watch a movie with somebody like that. That's always fun. What about favorite things? It's rare these days, but being able to go with somebody who's far more scared than I am and just giggle uncontrollably at their reactions to the film. Right. Well, we're just all like jaded. We're like we're like sitting there with our fist on our chin, and we're like these effects are not practical. Actually, actually, that's why Terrifier is actually so good, because it gets into that level of graphic and practical and everything else that most films don't touch. What a segue. All right, everybody, welcome to spoils of horror. My name is Stephen. I'm Leo. He said like he's falling down a well. And this is episode number 144. Terrifier two, part one. We're an excellent day for an exercise, huh? Look at me, Damien. It's all for you. I'm our number one fan. I hope they are watching there, see, there, see, and they don't know. Clearly, mine's not scary. I'm scared to close my eyes. I was scared to open up whatever you do. Don't fall asleep. We are here with our second film for the two part to September that we typically have come to do, and this time it's Terrifier two, which is exciting because we have not talked about this film in two years on any real basis, just mentioned it here and there. But it's been a hot minute since we did any sort of coverage. So why are we picking this up again? Yes, so we covered this in our bonus episode that we did two Halloween's ago and it was fun. This was something that we were just trying out at the time. We were still new at podcasting and we wanted to talk about the movie because we were experimenting with the idea of should we talk about new movies when they come out or should we not do that? We've kind of gotten away from that and I'm fine with that. I really like being a show that is more about obscure stuff than it is about the stuff that's coming out immediately. That being said, I've been wanting to cover Terrifier two ever since then because I really loved the movie and I think it's a very unique film for me. Number one, it's not unique in that, look, I adore slashers, but it's unique in that number one, we could only cover it with a two-parter because it's just too long, there's just too much to talk about. It was never going to be one single one and a half-hour episode. Number two, I had just never experienced anything like going to see Terrifier two, it's probably going to go down in one of the top 10 movie-going experiences I've ever had. When I went and saw it, we had a great time, we had a very funny story about how we accidentally walked into a viewing of Avatar 2 talking about Tom getting hurt. Blood and gore and bad stuff. But then also there was this just this wild moment to live in after having seen the movie because we saw it I think on opening night and there was this wild moment to live in where people were talking about how they were fainting and getting sick watching it. I think something that was a little trumped up, but who cares? It was a really fun time to be a movie-goer and to see a movie that was causing so much of a ruckus and who would have thought this little tiny movie would make $15 million. -I know, right? -It's fucking crazy. -Congratulations. -Congratulations. But as someone who never in his wildest dreams thought three years ago that he would be a terrifier fan and has now seen both Terrifier and All Howl Azif and likes both of them, I just thought it would be fun to reflect on this movie, to talk about the controversies around, talk about why people fucking hate it, why I fucking love it. I just think it's the right time for Terrifier 2. And hey, look, Terrifier 3 is coming out. -That's kind of cool. -Also true. So, yeah, I don't have much to rebuttal there, so let's dive in. Let's do it. Art the Clown has come back from the dead. Picking up where the first film ends, he takes his time beating a coroner with a bone mallet, ripping out his eyes, tearing his head into and taking out his brain. Covered in blood, Art walks down a dark alley on Halloween night to the nearest laundromat. He takes off his clothes, throws them in a washer, and reads the newspaper, enjoying an article about a disaster. He's suddenly distracted by a little girl dressed like him. Art waves, and it soon revealed that he is the only one that can see her. One year later, Sienna Shaw is using her artistic talent to make a winged Valkyrie costume for Halloween. On her bureau is a sword, a gift from her father, and a memorial to the character he used to draw. Her father died a few years earlier, and her mother is struggling to work, run the household, and take care of her and her brother, Jonathan, who is obsessed with Art the Clown. As Sienna slept that night, she dreams she's on the set of a children's TV show called the Clown Cafe. A chipper woman sings an earworm theme song, introducing art the show's mascot. He rides a tricycle, gives treats to the kids, then pulls out a timey gun, shooting everyone on set. Sienna's shot once in the leg and tries to escape. She crawls across the floor, grabs a cereal box, and pulls her sword from inside. She wields it just in time to deflect Art's attack. After waking from the dream, her bedroom is on fire. This movie starts where Terrifier I left off. Art the Clown has come back from the dead, he had shot himself in the previous movie, and now he is killing the coroner that was looking over his body. And we get different shots of Miles County because throughout this movie, we're going to see like a suburb, and we're going to see a high school, and we're going to see these early streets from the first film. It largely took place in an abandoned building, at a pizza shop that was at a strip mall. I got a question for you. Where the fuck is Miles County? Because it feels like it has a little bit of everything. I want to say Midwest, I want to say somewhere in the Oklahoma region that nobody goes to, so they can be a bit anonymous, but still look like everywhere. I'm going to say Metropolis because they are Gotham, because you know in Batman comics, they have like the Gotham Country Club, and then they have the Arkham Asylum, and then they have the Gotham grocery store, and I'm like, how does Gotham have everything? Like it has everything, Miles County seems to have everything. They have it all, everything you need conveniently placed for the script purposes whenever you're trying to tell the story. Right, and of course, they do this beautiful shot where they're kind of panning through the alleyway, and it shows just this alleyway, it's just covered in shit, garbage bags, boxes, and shit like that. And all I could think of was our witchcraft three episode, we got to clean this place up. We need an army of women in lingerie to go in and clean up those boxes. Boxes with boxes, there we go. I think that represents very well, Miles County, in that it has the inner sitting grime and sleaze back alleys, but also the quaint little suburban neighborhoods and family-friendly activities for kids to go do. That place is going to look weird on a map, like a tourist map. It's got this giant shithole on the left-hand side, and then it's like Miles County Heights. It's a map that shows a very lovely and affluent neighborhood, and then a big red X on the other side going, "Don't go here." Yeah, it's got Art the Clown, like on a map, you know, with the like little red check points of a map, like a treasure map, and he's like, "Follow Art the Clown through Miles County." I like the idea, like on an old cereal box where it's got the dotted line, like chasing him through the neighborhood. [laughter] Art the Clown saw you at the pizza shop. Can you get away? You know, I couldn't help but be a little frustrated, too, because when I'm watching this opening scene, as strong as it is, and I love the way it starts, I love the way it still has the lightning effect from the previous movie when Art the Clown came back to life, and he's going after the coroner who is already slightly disfigured before he's even hit with the bone mallet, and he gets on the phone and he calls 9-1-1, and they're like, "9-1-1, what's your emergency?" And then they start giving him prompts, like, "Hit one for yes and two for no one." I thought, "I've never heard a more fucking frustrating conversation." So Miles County has everything, including a shitty 9-1-1 operator. Jesus Christ, I don't even like doing that when I'm calling about my bank statement. Oh, I know. I like the 9-1-1 operators just on a break somewhere. He put it on autopilot. He's like, "Fuck it. I don't want to answer the phone right now." The only thing that would have made it funnier is if they had put on, like, elevator music. "Sorry, sir. We did not catch your call. Please try again later." If you'd like to leave a message, I like that he's going after the coroner doing his best slipknot impersonation as he's tearing into the man. It brings me to Art the Clown and his sense of humor and overall characterization, which I think a lot has to do with David Howard Thornton and how he plays him, of course. The small, subtle things that Art does to show his sadistic side, wherein tearing out the guy's eyeball, pretending to put it in his own eye, then he turns around and gives, like, jazz hands. It's like he's trying to amuse the coroner while at the same time kill him, and that's really great characterization. Yeah, one of the things that is really hard for people to understand is this movie is very gruesome and very funny, often in the same moments. I remember sitting in the theater and laughing very hard at that moment and thinking to myself, "Okay, here we go. I know what I'm in for. This is a movie that is going to be both funny and very gruesome at the same time." I'm glad you brought that up, because that's exactly it. Within the first five minutes, tells us exactly what to expect. We're at a very horrific, brutal killing, and it still let me entertain you and be silly. And I've probably seen Terrifier 2 now five or six times. Every single time, I laugh throughout the film, not just at this moment. There are even parts at the end of the film. There is a part where Jonathan, the brother character that we're going to meet later, where he pulls out a gun and shoots art the clown, and the way the art stares at him and then blinks his eyes like he's fluttering his eyelashes at him always makes me laugh. It's got a tremendously good personality for somebody who says psychotic as he is. Yeah, the clown cafe, which we'll get to shortly, there is a part where you have this singer who's playing a banjo or something, and she's singing this song, "Come on down to the clown cafe." There's a part where he lights her on fire. And then he mimics her dance, because it's a dream and she keeps dancing, and that part just makes me laugh hysterically. And it's not him going over the top. This is the thing I love about him. He doesn't do some weird big dance. He's just moving back and forth the same way she is, as if a kid would being like, "Oh, that's how we do this. Okay." No, and I'm so glad you bring it up right off the bat because it's really important to understand for the tone in this movie. This movie's funny. It's fucked up and it's funny. Reminds me a little bit of the green inferno. In the first 20, 30 minutes of that movie, it's got a lot of good commentary, and it's actually pretty funny. And it's allowed to be. Two years later, you can't avoid some of the commentaries online and people's opinions, whatever, and they're allowed to have them, blah, blah, et cetera, et cetera. However, when you're talking about a film that in the first 10 minutes says, "We are going to horrify you, but also make you laugh." And that's okay. You got to be willing to roll with that. That's what the movie's intention is. They told you straight out of the gate. Just fucking go with it. And it hits you right in the front, exactly correct, right out of the gate because this scene is so impressive with the gore of the coroner. And it's really the little details that Damian Leon nails. It's the way the bone mallet hits the face and the teeth pop out. Yes. It's the choking and the gurgling. When you watch a Friday the 13th movie, as much as I love them, people usually die instantly. No one in these movies dies instantly. No one. They suffer. And I'm not going to say that all of the deaths are super realistic, but in that way, they are more realistic than any other film. You know what I mean? Because people would just end their dead. It would take a moment. They would still be suffering. They would still be choking on their own blood or gasping for that last breath or whatever it may be. Exactly. And every time you think it's going to end, it takes it one step further, which is both the charm of the movie and also probably what hurts the movie a little bit. It's always one upping itself until it gets to a point where they literally have to stop or the movie is just never going to end. So it's not just that they're crushing his face with the bone mallet. It's that eventually he has to pull out his eye and it's eventually he has to grab this guy's head and literally rip it open and pull out his brain for a snack or I don't know a piece around the house. I don't know where it on a necklace like those old rappers used to do with the big chain. I don't know if he needs a throw pillow. I'm not sure what it's for. While I'm not ever in my life going to be a super snob about it, leaning more on the practical effects at every possible turn to bring us the ability to use our imaginations and assume the worst is a very effective strategy for this movie. Yeah, I heard some people say that special effects in Terrifier 2 are unrealistic. They could go suck my balls. What are they talking about? What is realistic? We're looking for like, I don't know, I came to think, I was going to say maybe hostel. Is that real? Yeah, I don't know. What are you looking for? Pairing that too. Have you even centipede? Yeah, have you ever looked inside your body? I've actually watched medical videos on YouTube, like autopsies and stuff. I find it fascinating. I find the human body fascinating. The same kind of stuff that they would use if you're a medical student trying to learn. I got to tell you, a lot of what they're doing in this is over the top can't be weird, but some of it looks pretty fucking real. Like I said, it's the small details. It's the hair. It's the skin. It's everything falling apart. You know, that's what really, really sings to me in the gore. And I'm going to fucking praise that across the board. There's literally no death in this movie that I, my jaw isn't hanging open, then I'm admiring the hard work of all these people behind the scenes that made these incredibly gory effects. Eventually, Art gets himself out of the coroner's office. And again, one of those little touches that this movie does that a lot of other movies don't do, he realizes how caked in gore and blood he is, decides he needs to go to the laundromat and clean himself up, which was fucking hilarious to watch him just strip naked, throw his shit into a washing machine, and sit down to read the paper like a normal person after everything that had just transpired. And by now, we have really, we've hit probably the third point that I've laughed out loud, which is when Art is sitting in the laundromat naked, reading a newspaper, and he's laughing hysterically. And it cuts to the fact that he's reading an article about a family of four that died in a car accident. Already, this movie has really set up the kind of rhythm it's going to hit. It's going to make a change very quickly. But that change gets so nicely wrapped and woven into the threat of the movie. And one of those two changes is in this scene, which is when we meet the pale girl. So the pale girl is kind of a art the clown cosplayer, which is actually real. That's actually how this character was discovered is that the this little girl, from my understanding, was actually a cosplayer of art the clown at conventions. Lord only knows how she saw the movie, but anyway, she was a cosplayer and they liked the idea so much they wrapped it in. I've just never identified with a character so quickly in my life, because she turns and looks at art the clown. She just immediately shits herself like diarrhea all over the floor. And I thought to myself, I don't like Duncan Donuts Koolat as either. The coffee bean really moves right through you. I can't say this scene for me is tremendous. This girl is like art's mini me. Nobody knows where she came from. Nobody knows why she's there. It just shows up, waves at him. He waves back. But what I found intriguing aren't looked incredibly confused by her presence. If you look at him, he's got that whole what the fuck look on his face while she's sitting there waving at him. And it wasn't until she started spraying that black liquid all over the floor as if to indicate that she was not human and something more sinister. While he didn't seem to recognize her at first, it was that moment where he goes, oh, okay, there's something about you that I don't have to worry about or that I should be interested in or what have you. And so he starts becoming very invested in this little girl. She does endear herself to him very quickly. Now, I don't remember the part about shitting yourself in how to win friends and influence people. I don't remember. Just like where the shit was. That's right. That's right. It was in the 25th anniversary edition. They added it. You don't get it from the audiobook. You got to read the actual hard talk. In the audiobook, you just hear it. You're like, what is that? Is that weird background noise? What's going on? It's subtle. So I think it's interesting that probably one of the criticisms of this movie is that this little girl doesn't make any sense that they never really explain her. But this doesn't really bother me. In fact, if there's any threads in the film that are left uncompleted by the time Terrifier 2 ends, knowing who the little girl is doesn't matter to me at all. And I think it's just because demons are present in All Hello's Eve. And so, to me, Arthur Clown is a demon. People don't like the supernatural fantastical elements to this movie. To me, they've been present since the beginning. So All Hello's Eve, Arthur Clown is just one of many demons. So the little girl for me is just very similar to that. The whole eye glowing bit where her eyes glow yellow. Arthur Clown did that in the first movie. If we go back to the Ninth Circle short or All Hello's Eve's anthology scene we're looking for, anyway, the point is there's three stories in one film. This was one of them. And it establishes right away that art is if not a demon himself in league with the devil, because he's capturing people, bringing them to a cult for what we assume is Satan to impregnate and try to make the Antichrist and blah, blah, blah. It's very simple, but effective story. And in that, he doesn't necessarily portray any big supernatural powers, but we can see the eyes glowing. We can see that there's something about him that's not human. So it's been established for quite some time that he's not quote unquote of this world. And I think one of the things that I don't like about the term canon is that often filmmakers grow and change. So I think what we are just seeing here at Terrifier 2 is that Damian Leon has grown from All Hello's Eve. And he's picked the things that he liked in that movie and abandoned the things that he didn't. The third short in that film is called Terrifier. And that's the one that is the most closely like resembles what we know of as Terrifier. But it still has some of those fantastical elements. The alien ones fucking gone, like they got rid of that one. That'll be amazing if they bring that alien back from Terrifier 3. I did read a theory online a year ago or whatever that somebody tried to connect that alien short to the mythology of Terrifier 2 with the dad and everything else, which was very strange and interesting. I don't fucking buy it for an instant. I'm not even gonna try to recite it here because I can barely remember it. But it was a really, really weird thread they were trying to put together. They're probably just ideas in the original movie that he abandoned. They was just like, this is stupid. I would make this when I was 22 years old. But I'm gonna keep the glowing eyes and I'm gonna keep the demon stuff and whatnot. So I think the little girl works for me because it is just in line with the previous movies. It's just he took, kept some stuff and abandoned other parts. On that note, then I want to do a little game of Rapid Fire, yes or no, regarding the theories of the pale girl. Got it. As I just want to see what your opinion is based on some things that I've picked up and read. I love this. All right. Pale Girl is his daughter. Fuck no. Pale Girl is his sister. No. Pale Girl is a demon. Yes. Pale Girl is part of art, read some sort of psychosis or split personality or something. No. Pale Girl was sacrificed by art to gain his powers. Not sacrificed. I just think that demons act as demons. They do things that are fucked up. They do things that are offensive and grotesque and disgusting. So the fact that they chose her body to be the body of a little girl that he killed, that's the reason why. Next one I was going to say was she's possessed by a demon. So your answer is yes. She is art's guardian demon and the source of his supernatural powers. Not the source, but I do think that she is a guardian demon. I think out of everything that everyone has conjectured so far, these are the five or six top theories out there. Some of them ranging on completely batched stupid. Somebody had made a comparison. I thought this was interesting. They said in the first terrifier, the cat lady in the building was seen caring for a doll who she claimed was her daughter. The doll's name was Emily. When we see art passionately cuddling the doll in the tunnel scene and the cat lady giving art a mother's touch before being scalped, then we learned that the 10 year old girl that got killed at the carnival was also named Emily. And that makes somehow the cat lady arts mother or some shit like that. And it was this big wackadoo fucking theory. And I'm like, I love that you're being creative, but I don't think that's the right direction for your creativity. I would respond to that, but I think I fell asleep halfway through it. Well, people are entitled to their theories. I love the way that you responded to that person like they like you're a creative writing instructor. The imagination here is spot on. I'm just not sure it makes a lot of sense. Terrifier two did something really interesting for me that I wanted to mention anyway. It made me like tell it terrifier one and all how is he better because the problems with those movies are largely corrected in Terrifier two. Yeah. And because Terrifier two works so well, it actually makes Terrifier two work better because there are like some real stakes as to whether or not the hero is going to win because the hero hasn't won yet. I like what you're saying about that, how Terrifier two feeds the first two films into being better films, which in turn feeds Terrifier two and is like this or hubris. Yep. With exception to the fact that I still fucking hate the space between Terra's death and Victoria arriving at the abandoned building. I fucking hate all that part. I just watched Terrifier. I hate the weird passing of the torch between Terra and the cat lady as it was. Yeah. And you're supposed to pretend that you care about these characters and you don't care about it all. So I really don't buy the cat lady is having any larger meeting other than the fact that Damien Leaud is just a better writer now than he was back then. She's just some crazy woman in the building that happened to see him kill some people. That's really a lot. Right. I really learned in this laundromat scene why you like Art the Clown so much because he has a level of cleanliness that is impeccable. Listen, it's not everybody who knows how to get blood stains out of a clothing in the first place, but to get them out of the clothing and look as sparkly fucking white as he did afterwards as if it was a brand new store about outfit. That's an impressive level of laundry skills. Christ, they should show him ironing. I can only imagine what Alex like. And then he mopped up the floor on his way out. He was half of the mob handle to kill a guy, but he cleaned up his mess. He cleaned up the pale girl's mess. He tidied. He went down his way. That's a nice guy. He could have left that place a sea of blood and ship, but instead like any good boy scout, like any good boy scout, he left it better than he found it. He actually left the pizza parlor as he of blood and shit literally had no reference over that. So see, he's learning he's growing as a person. He's doing well for himself. He's a good boy. It's an arc. It's an arc. I talked about how there is a shift and tone change that gets wrapped up in this these early scenes where you have a extreme gore and also a lot of laughs. And I guess the only way I can describe what the next tone is that gets wrapped in is insane. And I mean, this is a compliment sincerity. I remember watching the first terrifying movie. And I remember when that iconic music kicked in, that heavy industrial metal music that I love, I've seen the praises of the first terrifying soundtrack. And it is only mildly eclipsed by the second terrifying soundtrack. I've never seen a song or piece of music. So it clearly indicate who we're about to meet and what we're about to see. Then Damian Leon's use of the Midnight's Titles track for this movie, this great 80s synthwave song that I have not stopped listening to in the last two years. It's on all my synthwave tracks. I love this track. But I remember how it affected me when I watched it in the movie theater, because I didn't know what was coming. And as soon as those title credits came on and it showed our main character, Sienna's Bureau, she's got candles and she's got these angel wings. And then this track comes on and it's very like, it's low key, but it's a little funky and it's a little cool. I thought to myself, Damian Leon learned he's, he's gonna, this, this is a hero soundtrack. And he is about to invest in our main character in a way that he didn't in the first film. I think it's important to take that moment to nod to Damian Leon and say thank you, because he actually did take lessons from what he had done previously in the first two films. But also took valuable lessons from the fans. He heard the feedback and he implemented it. We covered this two years ago. Genuinely was like, okay, I hear you. Let's make it happen and made the changes. And I think that's a sign of a great director as well as a great person in general to be like, I can take the criticism and the feedback and improve my art. No pun intended. He knew what to listen to and what not to listen to. He didn't listen to any of the pearl clutchers. He didn't listen to any of the whiny horror fans. And we're like, oh, like I like my art. I like my horror films smart. He didn't listen any of that said, no, I'm making a, I'm making a slasher movie. It's extreme bit of a 80s throwback. I'm just gonna really, really, really dig in. I think we talked about this when we walked under the theater, but just this opening sequence is so colorful and it's so lyrical. And then we get to a dream sequence later on. This movie just has huge dream warrior vibes to me. Actually, it's funny you say that because I read something that said he took a lot of influence from Elm Street three, which shows. And I think he did the right way. I can't remember what movie we talked about recently where they fucked it up. But I think he did the right balance of taking inspiration without just stealing everything and doing it wrong. For this movie, for this dream sequence, for everything he did, I can see it. I can definitely see where he took that and applied it to his work to steal what the kids say over at a cut above. This opening track fucks like this is such good music. And it's such a great way of introducing our main character, which brings us to the other characters in the film. Re Sienna, the lead survivor girl, if you will, her brother, Jonathan, and their mom. This is almost a little bit traumatizing for me because these three characters sit at the main table and holy fuck, they have furniture in that kitchen that I had when I was a kid. Their kitchen doesn't look like the kitchen I grew up in, but they have a lot of shit in that kitchen that was in mind when I grew up got the vibe. Yeah. Yeah, I want to talk about Jonathan for a second. So first and foremost, I really like the way that this character is written. He's kind of like, you know, just on the cusp of being a teenager. And he is into serial killers. He's really into art the clown. He's really into reading all this fucked up stuff online. And I just couldn't like get over myself when I was watching him because I'm looking at this dorky, high-pitched voice, skinny as a real kid. And I thought to myself, if this kid comes out of the closet, I'm suing this movie. This kid is me like he's me. Oh my God, like this kid is me. I think that's the power of the Jonathan character, the way he's written and created. He hits that mark for anyone who was this kid. Because what I looked like him. Well, I know I get you. I get you. But I'm saying, I also relate to exactly who he is. I was the weird kid who was obsessed with serial killers and true crime and Stephen King and all this stuff that everyone said I was going to become a fucking axe murderer for and all that other shit. And I was ostracized for and I was both night for. Just because I had a hobby and an interest, you know, I mean, you are putting reading about serial killers right next to like macrame. Like I had a hobby though, like somebody else wanted to fucking knit and I wanted to learn about Jeffrey Dumber. That's how it worked. Hey, look, I was the same. I was totally the same. But that's the thing is a lot of us were that kid and Jonathan not only represents being that person very well, but the trials and tribulations that a person like that goes through from people thinking they're going to be a serial killer saying, trying to create reasons why what you're doing is wrong, even though you're doing literally nothing wrong. All of that I think is put so perfectly into this film, which is why we can all relate so well to the character. If you traded his glasses for about 35 zits, I literally would be him. Him and I share a fear of walking over storm drains were so skinny. I love his character. I totally love his character. I'm just giving him shit. And boy, oh boy, they really nailed it with with this casting. I saw something two years ago and I wondered where some of these actors came from. And I found out that he partially came from the fact that he has a YouTube channel where at the age of 12, 13, 14, you know, however old he is, he would go on and like review a hardcore metal music. And it's like, man, you, Jamie, Leo, you fucking lucked out. I saw this kid's podcast, YouTube podcast, whatever you want to call it, where he was interviewing Jamie and Leo and about this movie. And it was really good. The kids amazing. He's he's talented. He's I watched one of his episodes and I was like, he's talented. You know, it's a lot about music. I think his dad's musician. And I was just thinking to myself, man, any other kid you would have fucked up making this for sure. For sure. This is the right kid for this film. But I do like the way that this opening scene does something we didn't really get to do in the last film. It lets these characters breathe a little bit. Like you do get to know them. You get to know that Sienna is kind of almost like a secondary mom to Jonathan and you get to know that their mom is really struggling. She's really struggling to keep the house together. And you get to know that Jonathan's at this stage in his life where he is, you know, like many of us horror fans were where we were looking up fucked up shit online. And we were really interested in it. We were thinking about, you know, that maybe it would be in bad taste addresses of serial killer for Halloween. Because that person did actually hurt people. That was me. I did stuff like that. Uh huh. I agree. And it's interesting because I've been sitting for two years with their mom character trying to discern. Because you know what I'm going to do? We're going to dive deep into her character a little later on. But what I want to say is on comparison for anyone who watched the first Mr Bean movie. I wasn't expecting that. The idea is that he travels from Europe to America and the guy working as the ambassador or whatever has to put him up in his house for a while. From the moment the idea was mentioned, this guy's wife went ballistic and started shitting all over Mr Bean as the most horrible person on the planet. She'd never even met him. She never saw him. She never knew what he looked like and just went off the rails about how much he hated him. And I know what this was that script called for her to be the frustrated wife with this weird guy in the house. Blah, blah, blah, perfectly fine. But she went so over the top with it that I'm like, why do you hate him? You haven't even met him. What the fuck? And I've been sitting with this mom character. I think her name is Barbara for all this time going, why do you hate your fucking family so much? Why are you so abusive? Why are you such a bitch for the entire movie right out of the gate? And you actually said something that, I don't know if it changes my mind, but it certainly gives me a different perspective on it, where she is one of the most relatable mom characters in movies. I'm probably misquoting you a little bit, but you are not controversial opinion. I love her. What occurred to me is how close to my own mother, she was. And that was interesting to me when I started looking at it from that point of view, because my mother was stressed and my mother probably had mental health issues and well, I know she did. And she has, I don't know, whatever she was dealing with, that she didn't necessarily be a mom very well. She was trying, I guess, in her own way, but she fucked up and she failed. And she was a little abusive and she was a little this and she's always pissed off and she was always. And when I look at this and I'm like, my God, I finally see from my world, from my point of view, a realistic representation of a parent at home, that's a different angle. That makes me take a different approach to it. I know that there are people that do not like this mother character. And there is something in her acting that is a little off, and I've never quite put my finger on it. And maybe in this episode, we will, there is something that is just a little, there's a beat that's off, and I can't quite figure out what it is. She doesn't come off as natural as Sienna and Jonathan. I agree with that. But it's not a bad performance. I mean, Jesus Christ, you should have seen, I have this like leg injury. And so I was just watching like bad B movies all day yesterday, which will shock now one. That's bad acting, you know, but this is not bad acting. But I have never seen a more relatable mom to me, not totally like my mother, but just relatable. And one of the things that I think is tough is that there are some people that maybe watched this movie and had more of a mom, like maybe Ali's mom, who only shows up very briefly in a big, big bedroom scene. And they don't really get that a lot of us had moms like Barbara or had women in our family like Barbara. I love, there's a part where Sienna lights her bedroom on fire. And I love the aftermath when it cuts to Barbara and she says, what are you fucking stupid? Holy shit. Does she sound like so many women? I do. One thing I love about Terrifier two, all of the women fucking yell in this movie. I love the I love the women in this movie so much. I love I love Felicia Rose. What the fuck are you doing? Get Jonathan, get over here. Jesus Christ. Oh my God. I love the women in this movie so much because these were the women I grew up around other than Ali. And Ali is different for very specific reasons. Her friend Brooke, like Sienna herself, like these are all like really like tough as in the house like like women that are that that yell a lot and are not perfect. And they sometimes say shit that they shouldn't. I was gonna get to the mom more later and I still will, but sorry, not sorry, even though she does things that are kind of fucked up later on. I fucking love her. So we cut to Jonathan's bedroom. And Jonathan is looking at articles about the Miles County massacre or whatever it's called, where Art the Clown killed everybody from the first film. And it's showing their horrific bodies, but for some reason, they've just put a black bar over their eyes. What is the fucking point? It's the theory of the superhero mask. If you put something over their eyes, you can't tell who they are. So their anonymity is protected. What you don't see is that they also have a black bar over their nipples because God forbid. I thought of you the other day, because I was watching a YouTube documentary about the new Suspiria movie, like the one that came out. And they showed the mother at the end, you know, like one of the witches, the one that's like a giant glob, but they she's a giant gloves killing all these people. And they had these two little black bars over her nips. And I just couldn't stop laughing about it. And I thought of that because they had the black bars over Tara's eyes. And they had the black bars over art size. And I thought to myself, would they have done the same thing if they'd shown Don's dead body? Just a black bar over a pile of mush. Her two legs still strapped up in the air. Her vagina cut down to her neck and a little black bar over her eyes. That's it. Perfect. We don't want this to be obscene. None of the children will be harmed by this image at all. Exactly. We got to think about the children, really. After meeting the family, Sienna goes to sleep at night. And I think one of the most realistic moments of the film where she has some random trash piece of shit show on the television called the clown cafe. And you know, she's not really watching it. She's just so tired. She can't be fucked to change the channel. And that is accurate. We've all been there. How many B movies have I fallen asleep to? How many like women in bikinis fighting robots like movies have I fallen asleep to? But it's interesting because now, of course, this invades her dream and she starts dreaming she's part of the clown cafe, which is where you talk about the earworm song and where we get to see art the clown show up and decimate people. And what I find great about this, according to what I've read, this was crowdfunded, this scene in the the original movie. It was one of the things we're like, Oh, we want to have this, but we don't have enough money. And people would just kick started it into existence. I laughed a little bit because there's so much to talk about with the clown cafe because it is probably the number one part that fits into the world of is this movie too much. I don't mean too much isn't gory and you and I don't care about that. But what I mean is, is it just too long? And so the clown cafe part is is long. It is a long dream sequence. It really commits to the bit of showing this kids television show and showing Sienna wake up as one of the kids and she feels like something's off and the mascot is art the clown and it really commits. You and I probably agree what this is trying to do. It creates a connection between our hero and our villain. There is some level of reality to this dream in that I think that is actually the real art in that dream. And that is the real Sienna in that dream. But everything else is kind of part of her dream world. And yet at the same time, it goes on really long. And I've never seen such an effective way of getting rid of rid of all of your $50,000 tier kick starter people. Because that's who he's mowing over. I saw look, it's just like Tromaville. I saw all the fucking piercings and tattoos on those people and shit. Oh, for sure. Yeah, those are just terrified ones. These are people who had some sort of disposable income that I will never see in my life. Gade to fly out to wherever this was and and swing on a little kid's swing and get killed with a Tommy gun. And that was great. Signed up. I'd be there. I got to be honest. If I had the money, I would have done it. I had nothing else to do with this inheritance. So I feel a little bit and I'm curious about your feelings about the clown cafe. This is one of the things that I wonder if you and I maybe feel a little differently in that we agree that this is a little too long, but disagree on what we might cut. I think the film being two and a half hours is unique for a slasher film. And a lot of people have covered that and talked about it. So I'm not going to dive deep on it. And you know, they have to put so much filler and so much. We've talked about the endless walking of hallways and bullshit that fucking movies do to try and pad time. And this movie doesn't need the pad time, which is something I think is interesting because I feel like there was enough going on for the film itself or the script that was written that there was no need to pad time whatsoever with the base material. So adding extras like the clown cafe is not necessarily necessary. But I think I would have kept the clown cafe in favor of the nightclub scene. I think that's where the cut should have happened. You and I don't disagree actually. So funny enough, I would trim the clown cafe scene. Definitely. Because I love the woman on the guitar. I think it's hilarious. I think it really sets the mood. I think it's great that people are having her at conventions and she's singing the song. And I actually think that she does a good job at kind of setting the mood for this dream. Sure. But what I would have her do is I would have her do her song, art the clown come in, get on his tricycle, and I would cut when he gives each of the kids food. Yep. I would cut that and I would have him come on on his tricycle, open up his bag, take out the Tommy gun and shoot everybody. Yeah, just destroy him right away. We don't need Santa to get the heart in the box. We don't need the kids to have their own individual candies. That's right. And I know what that is. We've got the backers to give us the money to do the scene. So we're going to make sure they have screen time. Bless your heart for doing that. That's being good to your fans. I appreciate you for that. I think it's unnecessary. I think that I agree 100% could have been totally cut. That would be the two minutes that I would cut that's my problem with this movie is that I do have cuts that I would make, but I mean it probably resulted eight to nine minutes at most. Right. Yeah. Because even you know what I genuinely agree with you even if I did cut this movie down, it would only be for certain aesthetics and for certain moments that would still make it at least a two hour if not two and a half hour film. Sure. Because I love the rest of it. And I I think another thing that people really struggle with and I already mentioned this once is that this film is different tonally than Terrifier One because this movie is a horror fantasy. Yes. And you and I like horror fantasy. So I'm in, you know, I don't I don't have a problem with the Valkyrie imagery. I don't have a problem with the sword and I have a problem with any of that stuff. I like that shit. I also like fantasy movies. So it's fine. It's a great hybrid for me. So I want to keep her crawling for the cereal box. I want to keep her reaching in and getting the sword out because it's both it's both speaking to her prophecy, but it's also just using dream logic. You know, she just saw a serial commercial. So now she's, you know, an old 80s cereal box as you said, toys inside. And so, you know, it's just playing on some of these things that she's watched on the screen, but also playing out, you know, in a prophecy that she is experiencing that has some level of reality to it because, of course, when she wakes up her bedroom and flames, because she deflected the fire from Art the Clown. I don't need all this to be spelled out for me. It just kind of works for me in the same way that they've never really spread like they've never really talked about why the dream logic works in the Nightmare on Elm Street movies. It brings another theory that I've read over the years, people talking about Art the Clown being a dream demon in the same realm as Freddy. And I don't know how I feel about that because in one way, yeah, I kind of get it. In another way, it seems like it's not what his character's all about and nor what I wanted to be in some way. Yeah, I just think that they're confusing the vibes of dream warriors with it actually being dream warriors. And that's what I was about to say. I think where he was taking the inspiration and the influence from a great film and people are going, Oh, well, obviously, now he's like Freddy and I'm like, Oh, yes and no, he's like, he's as close to Freddy as we've ever had for a horror character who has a great personality. But he's not literally a dream demon in that same way. You want to compare Art the Clown more to Chucky or to Freddy Krueger because they have personality. Then you would want to compare them to Michael Myers or Jason because as much as I love those characters, they don't have personality. So somebody who's quippy and funny and interesting and has these sort of like weird kills, that's a little bit more an appropriate icon to compare to Art the Clown. Welcome to Good Beer Bad Movie Night, where each month we drink finely crafted brews while watching terrible films in order to see just how drunk you have to get to enjoy them. So tune in and join Troy. Killboy Kreitz. Oh, that was pretty good. Thank you. Dave, I have the weirdest boner. And Pete, IPAs are Ailes, meaning they are bottom fermented. Excuse me, they are top fermented. I f*** that up. Try it again. As we drag Kathleen, kicking and screaming through an alcohol-fueled podcast dedicated to movies of questionable quality and the frosty adult beverages that help make them tolerable. Good beer bad movie night. Clearly, it's the beer's fault. Art is making new weapons in his dungeon while the pale girl watches an unplugged television showing events from the previous film. This begins a series of events where Sienna and Jonathan are stalked for some unknown reason. Jonathan is blamed for a dead possum the pale girl brings to his school and Sienna is frightened by Art the Clown at a Halloween store. When she leaves, Art locks the door and brutally kills the store clerk by cutting off his head. When Sienna gets home, she talks to her brother. He shows her pages from their father's notebook filled with articles about Miles County murders, drawings of Art the Clown, and an illustration showing Sienna dressed as a Valkyrie, cutting off a demon's head. It's implied that their father may have been mentally ill and unaware of what he was doing. So there's a small scene here that is a bit of a throwback to the previous film, which is showing Art the Clown in his workshop building weapons and making a mace while the little pale girl is watching an unplugged TV. And it occurred to me that Art the Clown for all his horrible nature is quite crafty. Is this workshop that they have? Is this is this some sort of like shared artist space? It's just an art loft downtown. There's a room in the basement. It's going to cost you $2.50 a month art. Like is somebody doing stained glass upstairs? Yeah, somebody's making Etsy beads like a whole artist co-op. I know their open houses must be amazing. I would imagine so like, oh, you can come and see all the artists as they were, but maybe not the basement. So the problem with jokes like this is that anytime you actually have a truly funny horror film, it always wins out. That's why you and I always struggle with trauma films because trauma films are funnier. They're funnier than I am. And that's and that's the problem with thank you for agreeing so quickly. But that's the problem with a movie like Terrifier 2 is that an actual joke where there was some sort of artist co-op and everybody was showing off their art and they had all these really nice people and then they come down and Art the Clown is something super fucked up is something this movie would do. It would do and it's hilarious that it would be hilarious. There's nothing wrong quote-unquote with that kind of humor and people need to shut the fuck up about it. Movies aren't real, but I do also get, we do get a little bit of a call back to the previous film in that the little pale girl is watching the interview from the first movie between the nasty reporter and Victoria Hayes still sporting her 50% off facial reconstruction. So why the hospital's like, that's good enough. Somebody ran out of money like I'm sorry, man. Your insurance only covered so much of this reconstruction surgery and we're just going to cut off some of her ass, put her on her face and call her good. That's exactly right. You know, I mean, do people really look at faces anymore? Like it's overrated. It's over. It's fine. A couple of tattoos and you'll look great. You just get a really shiny necklace. Draw the eye away. Nobody will even notice. They have a sharpie marker filling her one eye socket with a weird eye drawing. You know, and the whole thing was that art ate her face. You know, they didn't burn her with battery acid or anything like that. That was somebody's artistic interpretation of a face. That is a Picasso version of what she used to look like. I never bought that. I've never bought for a second that that nobody, I could understand if Damien Leone said, yes, she would have had a better face. But you know, basically she came on live TV and then almost immediately mauled that woman. I go, okay, fine. Because in any other world, say if somebody came out and had that face, there'd be like a million people that would donate to a GoFundMe campaign that would be like, okay, like racial facial, you know, reconstruction for her face and yada yada yada. But this, this just kind of like right-aid discount version of her insurance ran out. So they just found the closest Freddy Krueger mask and stapled it all on the front. It's the wish.com version of what she could have had. I want to talk about this interview that they're watching. The interview on the little TV was in the opening of the first film. According to this film, that would have been one year after the events of this movie. No, it was, so it was confusing and terrifying. Remember, it was one year after the interview, one year after Victoria Hayes had been had her face eaten. Right. So we start with the interview of her that's one year later, technically. Right. Now they're watching that interview in this movie, which infers that it's a year later, because they're watching it in this movie. But at the beginning of the movie, it was the next night after the murders happened. And while I don't need the screen to flash one year later to understand what's going on, there is a certain Tarantino timeline going on here that is a little hard to follow. I do like the way it connects the two movies in that the interview in the Victoria Hayes mauling is happening as CNN, her friends are going to high school and all the events of this movie. I do like that those events are happening at the same time, but it did definitely take me a minute to get there and also start thinking to myself, art the clown survived directly after the events of the first film. Yeah. So what has he been doing for a year? So basically what we're watching is Terrifier 2 up until now being the year after the events of the first film. Yes. Even though at the beginning of the film before the laundry mat or the whole laundry mat scene was the next that night after he blew his brains off and came back to life in the coroner's office. Yes. So it's this weird we're going to double back on ourselves thing happening. Yeah. And look, I like it. I like it. I have no issue with that. I just can't like it's a brain worm in me that I'm like, what has he been doing for a year? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like how is he even paying his bills? Like what? I wait to say he doesn't. We don't know what keeps happening to the landlords of this building right here, but they go to collect the rent from the guy in room six B and they never come back. Do you think his workshop is in that same abandoned building? He killed the first two in the first film? Oh, that's right. It's already a studio space. It's both you can live in it. And you can also it's a great deal for Miles County, which is becoming very gentrified down with those rats and then asinine horrible toilet was. Yeah. Oh, yes. That's right. From the first film. He's been bettering himself for the last year. I'll bet. This section of the movie, the reason I said that Jonathan and Sienna are being stalked and we don't really know why is because there is an element to this film that we don't actually know why art the clown is after Sierra. It's not like the first movie where Don and Tara were just kind of like victims of opportunity. They just happen to be there. And he just killed everybody. Egged them on. So, you know, there was obviously Don's fault. But in this movie, they're after her. They are sort of circling her life. They're following her friends. They eventually start killing people around them. And then, of course, they go after her and Jonathan. So that's why I said that this is a part of the film where that's happening because we're seeing all those initial moments where they see art the clown off in the distance or they notice that he is shown up to the school with the dead possum, you know, different things like that. So, this is a part of the movie that I think some people could feel is wasted time. And I think really it's going to be time will tell. And we don't really know why art and the pale girl are after Sienna and Jonathan. Theoretically, Jonathan's just to get to Sienna. But that's what you have to understand with this part of the movie is it never really totally explains itself other than just, you know, most slasher movies have a killer that sort of orbits a final girl and then goes after her. I think it's an interesting dichotomy for me. And I want to save a good conversation of this towards the end and the recaps and all that. How you know there are certain things about this movie that I'm like, I don't understand. I don't know. I don't care what's going on. That's confusing. That's weird. And yet there are other moments where I don't I don't care. It's fine. The reason they're stalking Sienna and Jonathan. Don't care. It's fine. It's just what it is. I can accept it. Even the existence of the pale girl, whether it's a manifestation of arts psychosis or a real demon or whatever, I don't give a shit. Because it matches. It works. It fits. It's something that's new. But I don't need it explained because yeah, I get it. So it's a weird balance I have right now of what you're talking about. We're like, why are they? Why are they chasing these two? Are these two now the target? Who cares? There's something maybe it's Satan in the background going, we need them. And that's all it is. Who gives a shit? They're just there doing it. Oh, to me, it's simple. Sienna is the only one that can kill him. That's just what it is. And so he's going to attack on every front. It's one thing to just fight your hero. It's another thing to fuck up your hero's life. Right, exactly. Now, maybe they need to kill her in a certain part. Because that's the, you know, there's a whole, there's a whole thing later on where they got to get her to a certain place, which we can talk about that later. That's a little bit more confusing. But as far as him going after her, to me, it's just simply this. She's the only one that can kill him. And so the best way to deal with that, because she is a force to be reckoned with, is just simply to fuck up her life. And I will say, that's where some of the best villains come from, in any sort of comic books or whatever else you want to go for. In fact, if I remember correctly, Damian Leon had actually said to these two actors, your Joker, your Batman go, because he wanted them to have that dynamic. You are literally the, for this universe, this film, this character, you are these two person occasions, and you need to work off each other as that. You are the equal opposite blah, blah, blah, blah. So having that dynamic in place, the best villain on Earth is one that's not going to go directly to Sienna and start trying to kill her. It's going to be, I'm going to demoralize you. I'm going to take you down. I'm going to take away everything you love. I'm going to bring you to the brink of whatever it is, insanity, sadness, despair, etc. And then I'm going to attack you when you're at your lowest point. Exactly. And I love the fact that you brought up the arch nemesis thing, because that is exactly how the two of them are played. And it works really well. And it gets to a point you made earlier that I wanted to circle back to, which is one of the things I love about Art the Clown, is that Art the Clown a man, oh man, like the haters of Terrifier and Terrifier two are fucking rolling in their grades right now. As I say this, he's a full character. That's what I like about him. Do you remember that when we watched Terrifier one, I couldn't get over the scene where he pulled out the gun and shot Terra. Something about that moment that bugged me and not in a bad way. It was, he seemed disappointed with everything had gone down. And I was intrigued by it and I never forgot it. And now in Terrifier two, I get it. I get it completely because he is a character with emotions. He's a fucked up killer, but he has his own emotions. You said that he was really genuinely confused in the laundromat. I couldn't agree more. He also gets genuinely angry with Sienna. Yes, he does. Many times throughout this movie, he genuinely enjoys fucking around. He genuinely enjoys disgusting people. There's a scene where he's going to take a person's head and use it as a candy jar. That's not about Sienna. That's just about him loving fucking with people. He adores it and loves doing these disgusting things. But he is a full character. There's going to be a point where he gets, he gets angry with Sienna at one point and I love it. To be able to show his sadistic nature in this way. I compared him to Freddy Krueger. A lot of people are comparing him to Freddy Krueger saying he's the next horror icon. Personally, I don't give a shit if he's a horror icon or not. I really don't. I'll accept him as one gladly because I think he's fucking earned it well more than that goddamn scarecrow kid from Trick or Treat did in my opinion. But that's a great conversation. I think whether he is or not a horror icon, what makes him unique is that he has a personality. Much like Freddy Krueger, which is why I compare him to that. Art has this thing that he does where he's got this heavy breathing going on before killing, which is an interesting detail that really adds to his expressiveness without using words. He's a silent stalker meeting a charismatic killer in a way that we have not seen since Freddy Krueger or Chucky is another great example. These two killers who have these magnetic personalities, yeah, they're doing sadistic, horrible, terrible shit. But my god, I want to listen to them. I want to hear their jokes. I want to see them having a good time. Art doing the human skull as a candy dish is him having fun. You know what I can do would be hilarious right now. Him coming out in the fucking maids outfit later on. There's so many things, the salt in the wound literally that we're going to get to that he is literally just having fun with what he's doing and yes, what he's doing is terrible. But he's like a homicidal bugs bunny. You know what I'm saying? He's like Archie Bunker and all of the family. He's giving you permission to laugh at the insanity on the screen that he is creating because he himself is having fun with it. And I love interpreting what he's feeling, which sounds very artsy fartsy, but it's interesting because there's a mystery to it. When I saw him shoot Tara and he was disappointed, I thought, wait a minute, that's different. That's different than just a sadistic killer that we saw. There's a part where him and Sienna fight in the late at the end of the movie. And she grabs a like a cat nine tails that he is hitting her with. And then she pushes him off. And his look is genuine surprise. He is genuinely surprised that she got the best of him in that moment. And that actually happens in terrifying one to this one or two parts where Tara gets the best of him. And he honestly didn't see it coming. That's why he shoots her because he almost lost. Exactly. He got his ass kicked in that moment. And I praised this back then. He took a gun and said blam because all right, I need to step back from this for a second. You're actually doing better than I thought you would. Yep. There's a scene later to piggyback on what you're saying where Sienna is about to put the kudigra on art. You see him look at her and he just kind of smiles and nods going, OK, this is what I wanted to go. You win. I got it. And you see him recognize it. And it's like good game. And then it's done. Yep. Fucking wonderful expressiveness and character development for a character that is who art is. I mean, David Howard Thornton is so great in this film. And here's the thing. I actually like the guy who plays him in All Hallows Eve too. But I think that David Howard Thornton brought more humor to the role that was actually funny. Actually, I like the guy in All House Eve. He's scary. And the thing is, is that they kept the scariness of art the clown from All House Eve. But then they brought in humor and actual like more emotion. Yep. Yep. Yep. And it works really well. Look, I'm sorry. Sorry, not sorry. But you know, you can say that Oh, art the clown isn't really an icon because he's so associated with David Howard Thornton. But I mean, how is that not true of Freddy Krueger? Is that not true of Chuckie? I mean, you know, screaming that only Robert England could play Freddy Krueger, we can never have another one because he so attached the character and made him who he was. Right. And you and I have feelings about that. But of course, the point being is that it being the strength of the actor doesn't change the fact that the character is really great. And so yeah, I'm totally fine with art the clown being the next icon. I'm psyched about terrifying three. There's also an added piece to the mythology of the fact that Seattle's father who died. And I've always liked the detail that he died a really horrible death. It just, this movie does a really good job at just keeping that like hardcore our rating and never letting up even with its hero, even with the fact that Sienna was there's these premonitions that her father was having that she was going to be some hero. But it happens in a super fucked up way. He was losing his mind. He was actually becoming abusive to his family. And he it haunted him so much probably because he's also visiting that his wife is going to get killed and his horrible things are going to happen. You know, to everybody, he's probably envisioning all these things that he drove himself into a transformer and basically burned alive, which is it's a wonderful choice for the movie. It's a horrible thing to have happened to somebody. But I love the fact that even somebody who's divining what was going to happen isn't actually safe. And yet I will say this. Thank God he could actually draw because the scenes with this sketchbook would look really fucking stupid if it was like stick figures. It is nice that they actually got an artist to come in and do the right renderings. Ever see those really bad police sketch artists that do somebody that looks like fucking Gilligan or whatever. This stick figure with the hat and the club is Art the Clown. And this one with the wings and the boobies is Sienna. You can tell because she's got boobies. You can tell you should see the two big circles on the front. And she's going to kill him. And then the next one is like her with the wings and the boobies and then like little circle with hat on the top. I think a lot of what we're talking about too can be represented with art in the Halloween shop and the way that he's able to take his dark, twisted, horrible persona and still have a laugh. I look sometimes when a scene takes over and becomes the next iconic moment, you can kind of roll your eyes and you can think to yourself, okay, like now the scene's being done to death. But I can't lie. When I watched that Halloween scene or the scene in the Halloween shop and a little note, I've been in that store. I've been in Abracadabra in New York. I'm pretty sure I actually was in there right around the time that they were shooting because I remember seeing the art was here on the window, but I hadn't seen Terrifier, so I didn't know what it meant. So you're looking at that scene and I'm like, okay, I'm in for this because this is the preamble that every Terrifier movie does before these kills. And then the sunglasses. And I know it's famous and I know everybody loves it, but I can't lie to myself. I was laughing fucking hysterically. Oh yeah. It is just watching him have fun. And I know I've said it 20 times already, but there's a reason why taking away the child murderer, blah, blah, blah, that Freddy was so popular in the 80s, because he was a character that we could have fun with. He was a bad guy who could get up and host an award show or be on an interview or somehow be a part of your life outside of the movie. And art has the same thing. Do you see him having a good time just being a clown, as it were, goofing around with the props and the shit in the store, walking up to Sienna with the horn, beeping it in her ear and laughing to himself, all that shit. Even when he finally kills the store clerk, he stands there like he's a mannequin at the store window. These two show up, they're like, oh, store is closed or whatever. He's holding the severed head. They leave. He drops the head and and shrugs a little bit like, well, what the fuck ever now what I just lost an hour. That's what he that's what the shrug comes off. That was a waste of time. And it was so fucking great because he's like, I didn't need to stand here and kill this guy, but this guy pissed me off. So all right, fine, whatever. And little glimpses into that personality, little glimpses into that humor. It's so fucking great. I love the fact that you say he killed him because he pissed him off because that's exactly what happened. There's a certain way that Damian Leone handles goodness in these movies. Goodness and rightness does not mean you get to survive and win. One of the things I noticed is that this movie has a rhythm when it starts killing off its main characters. Every single time a main character dies, it cuts to a scene where somebody is looking for them like earnestly. Yeah, you know, or somebody's calling out their name or somebody needs them. And there's something that's so like off putting and haunting about that of like, we just watch this person get murdered and now people are looking for them and I actually love that in a horror movie. I love the way that makes me feel because I don't get scared of gore, but I do feel empathy. When you have this scene with the guy at the Halloween store, the guy at the Halloween store is doing everything right. He's he can see that this person is bothering Sienna. He steps up. He tries to defend her. And then he has this horrible death. And again, talk about the fucking gore effects. When there's a meat cleaver that goes into his head and his eye rolls back. Yeah, because they've either done because some of the eyes were done with CGI, they did very little CGI, but they did do some of the eyes with CGI, because well, but also when I'm like when Allie dies, her eyes are actually CGI. Oh, for sure. Yeah, because it's a puppet, you know what I mean? In that case, it's easier to CGI than to practical. Right. But his eye rolls into the back of his skull when that cleaver sinks into his head. And man, I don't know if I'm looking at an animatronic or what, but it doesn't matter. It's so fucking good. And again, for whatever it's worth, that's the value of combining CGI with practical in the right ways. It can be effective. It can be done. It can enhance what you're doing to a point to make it over the top great without having to be the whole thing that's in there. Oh, I totally agree. There's two things about the Halloween shop. First, do you think that Sienna checked the tag on those wings to make sure they were fire resistant? I mean, I guess she would have to after the last one's burned. And as much as we're going on about the greatness of the realism and the characterizations and everything else, there is one thing I think that they messed up on. And I want to be fair in my review of film, where I don't think it's realistic that her friend Ali would step away to take a call at the Halloween shop. Because we know everyone in this generation refuses to make phone calls. I guess they just needed to get rid of her for this. That's totally fair. They needed to run into Arthur clown. They needed to do all that stuff. They just need to get rid of her because again, they want to have this. They want to have the first real in-person showdown between art, the clown meeting of the two. Yeah, exactly. I kept thinking because I love a good Halloween shop because one of the things I love in a Halloween shop is the knockoff costumes. I love walking around a Halloween shop and seeing beetle guy and Arthur knife hands. Yes, Arthur knife hands. I love a good knockoff costume. And then the costume bag looks perfectly like Freddy Krueger or whatnot. But then it never has anything actually in the bag that is for the it just has like one size fits all like small to triple X sweater. And that's it. Everything else sold separately. It's gone. Fuck you. Santa's friend Ali is handing out Halloween candy when art the clown arrives at her door. She has an altercation with art looks into his bag to see blood covered tools that locks herself inside. After the sun sets, she hears a crash in the kitchen. Art has broken into her room and chases her upstairs into the bedroom where he brutally tortures her in ways both violent and cruel. He breaks her arm, slashes her back, cuts open her eye and slices off her scalp before leaving suddenly. Ali crawls for her phone, but art returns to cover her and salt and bleach before ripping off parts of her face. Later that night, Ali's mother comes home and finds broken glass in the kitchen. She runs upstairs, opens the door and finds her daughter's torn apart body propped up against the headboard. The room is saturated in blood. Ali opens her eyes and calls out for her mom before finally dying. Art sits next to the mutilated body of her daughter laughing at her pain as the mother screams. So I separated this out for a reason because this is the big kill. This is the one that everybody talks about. This is the cut in half one. Yes. Yes, exactly. My favorite scene from Terrifier One, and I don't remember if we talked about this, is the scene where Terra and Dawn are at the pizza shop and Art the Clown is sitting in a booth nearby and they have their opening interactions with him. If you were going to make a Terrifier reboot 30 years from now, one of the things that you'd have to copy is not just the little hat and not just the humor and not just the big gory kill, but my favorite parts of Terrifier are the preamble to the kill. There's always an extended moment beforehand where the killer Art the Clown toys with the people that he's about to kill. Almost enjoying the game of you don't know this, but you have another hour left to live. And that to me is one of my favorite parts of a Terrifier film. And so one of my favorite moments is this scene with Ali handing out the candy, because I just love the build up. And I love the fact that they give Ali little final girl traits, even though she dies a horrific death. And they give her those traits of, not foresight, but perceptiveness. She sees the van across the street and she's perceptive that something's happening. She figures out that Art the Clown is kind of a creep and she looks in the bag and she sees the tools covered in blood. These are things that normally a final girl would do to be perceptive to what's happening and to be a little escape. Not true for her, but I still love that they give her those little moments. And I like what you said about Art knowing that she's got a limited amount of time, even though she doesn't, because it goes back to what we're talking about before with Art and his personality and the way he's able to have fun with what he's doing. It's cat and mouse shit. He's going up to her and just asking for a trick or treat. He's asking for candy. And he's being aggressive about it when she tries to shut the door in his face. She's very polite at first. She's like, Oh, no, you're too old. Sorry. And gets to a point of fucking with her where she's like, if I give you candy, you'll go away. And he says, yes. And then she does. And he walks away as if to give her that false sense of hope, hope to say, see, I'm nothing. Don't worry about me. I was just here for the candy. And it's only later on that she realized how far he's willing to go and how bad she fucked up. I love that you said the word politeness. I had such a reaction to that because Art loves to push the boundary of politeness. He loves to get a little too close. He loves to be a little too pushy. That's the way he likes to play the game in the beginning. So there's a part in the Halloween store where he makes Ali, not Ali, sorry, Sienna, walk past him. Yes. He's like blocking the doorway just so she has to push past him to get through exactly. He's a little too aggressive with the candy. He pushes his hand out with the infamous garbage bag full of tools, the most powerful lawn and leaf bag in the existence. It's a hefty bag, certainly. It's a hefty bag, double bagged, but it's got that water freshness protection on it. Exactly. Like the one that used for your cat litter. I can't give you more candy. Also, your bag smells wonderful. Fresh floral scent to it. Is that lavender? But he loves to push the politeness. Like, you know, I'm going to knock on your door. Then when you close the door, I'm going to knock again louder. Yeah. Exactly. Just to push the boundary a little bit. It makes the scenes all the more haunting because that's what's so great about these movies is they're both funny, but they are all so haunting. I would not want to meet Art the Clown. Am I scared when I watch these movies? Fuck no. I find the Terrifier movies super entertaining. I've told you I fell asleep watching Terrifier one the other day. For sure. You know, I find these movies very entertaining. I'm not, I'm just, this type of stuff doesn't scare me, but that doesn't mean I don't want to meet Art the Clown that I don't want to, you know, he's like the fucking, he's like the killer in night breed. I don't want him to knock on my door and drop off sushi. Like what we've said before, we might not be scared, but we can recognize scary. And if this guy came up to my door and I said, hey, no thanks, close the door. Then he starts banging on it like he's going to break his way through it. That's scary. I don't care who you are or what you're dressed like. That's scary. Right. So then we get to the big moment, the fourth of the July fireworks of Terrifier 2, which is, Ali goes downstairs, finds Art the Clown in her kitchen. He quickly turns around. Just a small detail. I like the way that Art always plays with perception. He plays with the idea that maybe people don't see him. You know, he knows that she's looking at him. Oh yeah, he doesn't care if she sees her. That's the whole point. Exactly. And he does that a couple different times. He does it with a scene with a dead possum where he's like him in the little pale girl playing with this dead possum. They know that Jonathan's looking at him, but they just, they just keep playing and then they act like they just saw him. It happens in Terrifier 1, 2, where they, he does this whole like game with Terra where he pretends he's looking for her, but he knows right where she is. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. And he's just walking through the kitchen. The back door is completely shattered. You know how he got in, gets himself a glass of water, slowly drinks it as if he lived there like nothing. It's just Thursday night. He is brilliant. As if he knows what's about to come and he is ready to hydrate. That's right. That's right. He's just booking up before the big show. He does everything but stretches. It's a big moment. So he runs upstairs chasing Ali, they get into the bedroom, and this, like I said, is the big coup de gras. I really wanted to, I really didn't feel like I did the kill in her for one justice. So that's why I wanted to really separate this out so we can really spend some time here and really no pun intended, but cut this up and pull this apart and rip its face off. I want to land on what horrifies me about this scene. Art the clown comes in, cuts her eye, stabs her in the back, slashes her back, breaks her arm, rips her hand in two, but let me give compliment where compliment is due. It's not the gore. It's the acting. Ali is killing this scene. I feel so much empathy for her. I'm not going to say that she's a character I particularly like or dislike. It doesn't really matter. She's just a nice kid and kind of a generic personality, but they're doing that on purpose. They're contrasting her bedroom that has live, laugh, love written on a poster on a wall and shit, but then art the crown eviscerating her is the contrast they want. So with that in mind, I feel for her in the same way that I felt for the characters in human centipede. I fucking hate that movie, but there's just a certain point where somebody's begging for their mom that your heart goes out to them. And she is screaming and crying. And she is desperate and she has no ability to fight back whatsoever. That's just not in her wheelhouse. And so when that cut goes over her eye and I've never seen someone look so terrified or when she crawls across her vanity and then he rips her back and he cuts her scalp off and he exposes the bone of her skull, she's just so scared. And I feel so much for her. I couldn't agree more. And I think it is definitely very important to nail on that aspect of it where it's not just I'm going to slice your eyeball in half. It's not just I'm going to scalp you. It's not just tearing off your arm like it's a chicken wing. It's her ability to show the proper emotion that goes along with that. And it's weird to say that in a way because most people treat this sort of a scene where they're like, okay, all we have to do is scream. As long as I'm screaming, I'm good. It's more than that. If you were in that scenario, yeah, you're gonna scream because shit hurts. It's not just screaming. You are literally terrified for your life. You know you're about to die. All you can think about is survival. All you can think about is the small hope that somehow you'll get out of this. But it's probably not going to happen. There are emotions going through you beyond just ouch. And it's the crying and the whimpering. It's so desperate and it's so sad. I remember a story that happened somewhere in the United States. I don't remember what it was. But there was a story about a bunch of people that were on a boat, like a tourist boat. And it sank. And somebody had their whole family on board and everyone died except for one person that was in that family. And you just think to yourself, my God, like, is there anything that's sadder than that? Then losing your brothers and your sisters and your, I mean, they lost like brothers and sisters, children, their partner, they lost everyone. They were the sole survivor. And so I think to myself, it's not just the fact that she's being tortured. And it's just not the fact that she's crying for her life. It's the deep unfairness of it. Yeah, like, we love art. Like, art's great. But Damian Leon is so good at saying, yeah, but what art does is horrible. And I feel so bad for her because it feels so unfair. You know, and as these great shots, I love the shot of her Halloween costume. And I love the shot of her of her, like, picture with Sienna, because that's not how the night was supposed to go. She was supposed to go to a Halloween party and have a good time. Yep. And everything's lost. Everything's gone to your point. And yeah, I want to share with you the compliments, the high praise for her acting ability in this scene. Yeah, it's outrageous that she can pull it off. So I don't, I consider myself a pretty decent actor. I never say I'm the best or the greatest or anything else. But I don't know that I could pull that off. 100%. I don't know that I could do this. And the reason it works is because of her. David Howard Thornton's amazing. She's the reason that this this scene works. Yep. And it wouldn't be the same without that emotional impact at all. Right. Exactly. And this is a scene that has literally made people throw up. And you know, what compliments where it's due? That's her. That's all her. Yeah. She's really killing this part. So I want to say, because it's one thing I don't like about the scene. And it has nothing to do with the gore or anything. You know what it is, because we've already talked about it. It goes on too long. I mean, the gore here is just incredible. Like, I mean, the exposed bone of her skull is so effective. The breaking of her bones. Like, that's the part that actually grosses me out is the breaking of her bones when he grabs her fingers and pulls her hand apart. That's the part that makes me go like, I feel that. And I think that's the other thing where we really need to land on giving props is the props as it were. The people who did the practical effects that made all this come together, even the ones who digitized the certain things they needed to digitize to make her as fucked up as she got. Sure. Everyone did such an amazing job. Everything came together so perfectly to create such a grotesque. When you can make a film that has such a visceral reaction with your crowd that they want to vomit, they need to leave the theater that they maybe want to boycott this altogether. You know you've done it correctly. I totally agree with you. He does break her bones pretty easily. I wonder if she thought in those moments, I wish I had drank more milk. If I had done more yoga, he would not have had this easy of a time pulling my arm. I'm not going to say that this is the hazards of being a vegan. I'm just going to say some people's lifestyles, maybe as well as they think they do. I want to see that on an ad. Are you considering veganism and just aren't the cloud ripping her arm in half? You need strong bones. Yeah. She was vegan too. Ellie was looking at Ellie now. Where her face pulled off and her head exposed. Like her dying word, which she uses the dying word mommy, she's like, "I wish I had eaten meat." That's right. This is the controversial part. So there's really three cuts that I would make to this movie, which would only make it marginally shorter. One is unfortunately in this death sequence because I was horrified in all the right ways during this alley kill until she started crawling across the floor. Because when she started crawling across the floor, I thought to myself, this is the one part of Damien Leone that is like M Night Shyamalan. Like M Night Shyamalan cannot resist certain things in his movies, even if he should. Yeah. And Damien Leone cannot resist trying to top himself. One of my issues with Terrifier 1 was that I felt that what it was trying to do was so easy to predict. Okay. You're trying to be edgelordy. You're trying to be hardcore. I know you're going to kill the final girl. I know you're going to do this. I know you're going to do that. In retrospect, I like those things better now because of Terrifier 2. It's made it better. Sure. But in this film, when I saw her crawling across the floor, I thought, here we go. He's, there's no way she's making that phone. They are going to do more. And so when Art the Clown runs in with the bleach and the salt, I was laughing hysterically because now we've gone so far. That to me, we've gone to comedy. To see the delight in him, he walks into that room with the bleach and the salt in his hand as if he was a kid in a candy store. Like, look what I found. Look what I found. And I have, I've seen a lot of horror movies. I've seen a lot of stupid things. I've seen a lot of sick shit. I've seen a lot of extreme horrors. And I have never seen anything so sadistic in my life as me just dumping salt literally into that wound and then grinding it into her back, like shoving it in as if he was trying to marinate some sort of steak for dinner. Does it work for you though? Because it doesn't work for me. And it's not that I'm that I'm horrified by it. To me, it's the equivalent of you taking her body, throwing it out the window, and it had fallen down the canyon, like Homer Simpson in that famous Simpson episode. Like, it's just now it's funny. Like now it's just funny. And it's just like, and you could have, you could have backed her truck over her and she could have been like, and now her empathy is just heightening the humor. So she could have been like, no, and then like a dump truck could have fallen on her. And she could have had, she could have launched with the catapult into a volcano. And then they just show her like rotting dead corpse like barely barely existent. For me, controversial choice. I love that shot so much where he slashes the scalpel and you just see the blood splatter against her costume and the wall and the live laugh love and her picture like her photo with Sienna. Like to me, that's such an effective ending to that death. And then you cut to the mother coming in and that's the way you want up the scene is by being like, okay, we're not just going to show her dead. Now we're going to have a mom walk in. I get you and I agree with you. And I think it's not a matter of taking that part out as much as re-editing it. If you showed Ali going for the phone, then he comes in with the salt and the bleach. And then he does the thing where he cuts over the scalpel blood on the costume all that. Mom comes in. Perfect scene. Perfect for me. I can work with that. Yes, because I love that ending. I love that like, I love that button on like blood across her whole life. And I agree, that's probably where I would have chose to make that cut make that end happen. I think him coming in with the salt doing what he did speaks so loudly to his character to everything we had said before in this episode about his sense of humor and his his being able to be a personality instead of just a mindless killer and all of these things culminate in this one moment. But it also does bring up and we're going to see this same question arise in the next film. When you saw a woman in half the way he did in the first movie, how do you top that? Right. Here we are. So now that you've done this, how do you top it? Don't get me started. Don't get me started on this. I'm just saying the main issue that we have with this kind of going, I wouldn't change all of it. I wouldn't eliminate any of it. I might alter the way it runs like which parts go in which order. But now that we've done this, where do we go? It's all got this conversation just makes me crazy listening to everybody talk about whether he's going to kill Santa Claus, which I think is going to happen. Number two, whether I always thought killing a couple would be a good idea, like killing two people at the same time and they're not able to defend one another. But they're clearly going to do that because that's in the trailer. They showed, they showed that. Yeah, they showed the shower. See, that looks like that's going to be fucking great. But the question, of course, is, is he going to kill the kid? And here's my answer. They already did it. I know. They did it. All hellos eve. That's how the movie ends. I don't even think killing the kid is topping this. I don't think that's the one up from where we are now. I think in all hellos eve, by the way, for those of you who are not remembering or ignorant or stupid or whatever the fuck you are, that you don't recognize this because you're all bitching about, oh, give me a child killer. He's already a child killer. Fuck off. The original movie that started all of this had two kids dismembered in a room. So shut the fuck up. It's just angry. I'm not angry with people that don't that are like wondering, can I watch that? What I'm aggravated by is people acting like this is the thing that is like too far gone. And I'm like, the series already did it. Like started with that. That's the whole point. But I don't know. I think it's really an interesting concept about where do we go from here? How far do we take it to get to that next? Because sure, nobody had ever seen anyone cut in half like that before. Wow. Okay, great. People want to boycott the movie. Now we get to this one. This girl is decimated. Yeah. Everybody wants to boycott the movie. Where what's the next big fucking thing we can do? That doesn't go, oh, this again. Like, what are we going to do? Like launch babies to the moon? Like, I mean, fuck the open three killed 30 babies. Like, that's actually true. But to end on the alley stuff, because the mom walks in and again, I could see where this was going. Okay. Okay. Mom's going to walk in and she's going to there's going to see something horrible. It showed Ali and the picture is great. Like Al, you know, you've got Arthur clowns sitting next to Ali. She's like her body. So it's just like totally destroyed. It's barely even recognizable who she was. Arthur clown is doing this wonderful things with his hands where he's looking at her body being like, I don't know what happened. Like, yeah, yeah, exactly. I don't know how she ended up this way, which, which that's funny. And I like that. But then, and he's laughing at the mother's pain. But when the when Ali said mom was totally a fart for me, like I burst out laughing. Oh, yeah. It was constantly trying to heighten itself. And I thought to myself, if her dad walks in afterwards, and she's like, she dies. And then the brother walks it. The cat walks it. She raised herself up from the dead and called that mom, which he meant to say it was out. Right. Right. Like, I think I said this in our in our episode before, like, you know, there is no God. Yeah. Whereas it's going to go the the prop, though, it's an animatronic. That looks amazing. And to your point earlier, I might have cut without her saying a word. Maybe she opened her eyes. Maybe she twitched her body convulsor, whatever. I would have actually cut it with art pointing and laughing at the mom's pain and suffering. And just have her dad. Yeah. And then the next thing we see is her severed head is the candy bowl. That would have been perfect, which that's hilarious. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. Yes. That's my take on it. But watch the art the clown swatting the kids hands as they're trying to take too much candy. That to me is the better joke, because the joke is built on the idea of, I've done this horrible thing by killing this woman upstairs and now beheading her mother. But you may not take more than one piece of candy. That's right. That's the humor I love in this guy. That's what's great about him. So Leo, we have finished the first half of Terrifier 2, and we've recorded for about two hours, which I think is about how long the first half of the movie is. What are your initial thoughts? Where are we at right now with Terrifier 2? I remember thinking back on our original coverage of this. Two years down the line, I am able to reflect back on the way Thornton stepped into playing Art the Clown and still agreeing that that he really nailed it more in the second film that he did in the first film, even though the first film was still great. Looking into Damien Leon learning from the audience, giving us someone we want to win and root for, as opposed to he did in the first film. Using the kid Jonathan as an audience avatar, all these things that we talked about in the first film, or the first coverage of this that we did briefly, and being able to look at it with fresh eyes again and say, yeah, okay, I still agree with a lot of what I had in that time, but it's nice to know that a second, third, fourth viewing along the way, I can see more clearly what his vision was. I can understand more clearly what he's aiming for and enjoy the film on what I want to say is a peer level, but I don't mean that in an egotistical way, just as I get it. I get it more now than I did walking out of the theater with it, and that brings a new life to it. What a great way of putting it. I love taking Terrifier 1, Terrifier 2, and what I think Terrifier 3 is going to look like, because I'm a super visual person, so that's why I often talk about the way a movie looks on the show. All hell is even different because it's a bit of a student film vibe, but you think of the strong purple and blacks, and the strong gritty gross nature of the first film, which is a compliment to it, and then you think of what we think the third film is going to like, which is very silent night, deadly night, very black Christmas. I so agree with you in that I was almost able to settle into this movie more for what it actually is, because even though I walked out of that theater fucking skipping, I enjoyed Terrifier 2 so much. But I didn't realize how much of a horror fantasy it is, and I really was able to enjoy that a lot more. It's not just in the swords and the Valkyrie outfits and the demons and the monsters, it's even in the visuals and the imagery, like all that great imagery in Sienna's bedroom. It all sets a mood, and I was really able to lean more into that dream warrior's vibe much more in this movie. Can I say that I walked away from Terrifier 2 this time loving it more than I did the first time? Yeah, I can. Absolutely. For me, when I saw it in the theater, it was kind of like seeing Richard Donner's Superman 2, which you and I have talked about on the show before. Yes. Richard Donner's Superman 2 isn't perfect, but it really teaches you how a movie is made. You get to see his version of a movie that we grew up seeing, and you get to see how a movie is cut differently, and there are scenes that weren't there before, how it totally changes the vibe. Donner's cut is infinitely better. So with Terrifier, I feel like I got to see a movie where somebody took all of the criticisms of the first script and implemented them. Maybe took them too far, but that's fascinating to me. I also want to give before we go, one more plug for our Crawl episode over it, give me back my action. That was so fun. It was so fun to meet the ladies from Cinema Slab, and it was just a, I just always love going on their show. I really find it fascinating the concept of growing up with a film and having a nostalgia for it versus people who see it right now, and don't give a shit about it. And I mean that lovingly. I'm not taking on you guys, but I remember this happened with Star Wars as well, when the first one through three episodes started coming out, and people started sharing the original Star Wars trilogy with their kids and shit, and the kids are like, this is boring, what the fuck are we looking at? And they were crushed because their life was so wrapped into this. And I think when you listen to this episode, you're going to hear some really amazing opinions from different walks of life, and I think that's one of the things that makes it such a great episode. When you and I covered hackers with them, hackers was a movie I saw in like 1995, when I came out, and you're watching it as a 40 year old and you're like, this movie's, you liked it, you liked it, you thought it was fun. I enjoyed it, but I'll never have the memories and the nostalgia around of the, you do. It's not going to. Right. When I watched it, I was like, I want to be Dave Murphy. And I'm like, I want it to be over. You're like, I remember when Fisher Stevens played an Indian in short circuit. Go check out crawling. Hey, hackers to while we're at it. Yeah, what hackers? Hackers as well. Let's do hackers to hackers to hackers to where they have all the B list actors playing Angelina Jolie and Johnny. Whatever his face is character. Terrifier two comes out next week, part two, that's confusing, but whatever, you get it. Listen, have fun. See you later. Bye. [Music] [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]
