Willie sat down with 16-time Grammy winner, Alicia Keys, ahead of the opening of her Broadway musical, "Hell's Kitchen". They talk about inspirations from her own life that helped her create the acclaimed coming-of-age musical more than a decade in the making.
Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist
Alicia Keys Talks "Hell's Kitchen" on Broadway, Inspired by Her Life and Career (April 2024)
Hey guys, Willie guys, here with another episode of the Sunday Sit Down podcast. My thanks is always for clicking and listening along. So very excited to bring my conversation this week with for my money, one of the most talented people currently striding the earth. She is Alicia Keys, 16 Grammys to her name, more than 65 million record sold since her debut in 2001. When she was 20 years old, the song is fallen, you know it, you love it. The album is songs in a minor. It went to number one. She won five Grammys and the rest has been history since then. She's got a musical out now on Broadway. It's called Hell's Kitchen was a big hit off Broadway at the public theater in New York and now is graduated and moving up to the Schubert theater in New York. Alicia is not in the show. You don't go to the show and see her on stage. But the show is loosely based on her life. She says it's not autobiographical, but certainly inspired by it. She grew up herself in Hell's Kitchen. She grew up with a single mother. She learned how to love music while growing up in her building in Hell's Kitchen. And so the character, Ally, the lead in the show has a lot of that in her life too, but some different things too. So many parallels with music at the center of it. It's not a big sing along to Alicia Keys music show. But Alicia Keys music is in the show. She rearranged all of her hit songs so that they would fit into the show seamlessly with the dialogue. So they do come in and the crowd screams, I can tell you, I went to a show the minute they recognize some of those notes. So it is a beautiful show. It's incredibly well acted. The singers are unbelievable choreographers, great. So I think people are going to love to see Hell's Kitchen. So Alicia and I got together the other day. They're sitting just to kind of get your head in the right place on stage at the Schubert Theater where this show is being performed Hell's Kitchen. And it is a dream come true for her as she grew up just around the corner from the theater for five blocks going to see Broadway shows with her mother. So very cool to catch her in this moment just before opening night of the show. She's been dreaming about and working on for more than a decade. So I'll get out of the way and let you listen to the conversation right now with Alicia Keys on the Sunday sit down podcast. Alicia. Yay. We're here. We're here. Congratulations. Thank you so much. What does it feel like to be sitting on the stage at the Schubert Theater of the show you've been working on for almost a decade and a half. Right. And now it's here. Well, I definitely have not done an interview on this stage before. So this is for sure of first. I'm spending so much time out in the audience to make sure that everything's translating and feeling really good. So that's kind of incredible to be up here to be talking about this show "Hell's Kitchen" with you in the middle of New York City telling this New York story about Ali, a 17 year old girl who's trying to find her way, feeling quite rebellious, looking for her muse, her passion, being raised by a single mother who's quite overprotective in New York City, which you can understand why. So it's unbelievable. I don't have the words I've been saying. I think I was too enthusiastic when you sat down about the show because I saw it a couple of nights ago and I think I gave away the whole interview before we started so we can start over. Let's do it again. But my gosh, I sat right there with my mom and a lot of this show is about Ali and her mom with some reflections about your relationship with your mother, although this is not autobiographical. How important was that relationship to this story? This telling a mother daughter story is really, really important. And one of the things I think we've discovered along the lines of being off Broadway at the public and really developing the story is that there aren't that there are many father son stories, there are not many mother daughter stories. And so I was very surprised to kind of think of that because Oscar brought that up from the public and I said, "Wow, is that true?" And if you think about it, it's such a special relationship, such a unique relationship. And so telling that story is really dynamic. And so whether you're actually a parent or whether you are a young person in that 15, 16, 17, 20, 21, 22, and you're trying to find who you are, which all of us are in the process of finding that, those relationships around us are so influential. Sometimes they get very rocky and sometimes it forces you to have to discover who you want to be. And I think that's at the core of it. Who are you actually without everybody telling you who you're supposed to be and how does your community help you find your way? And how do you find those sparks that help you realize that there is more for you out here than you might imagine? And the fear that we inherit from our loved ones, because our loved ones go through so many, so many difficulties or hard times and they just want to protect you. They just want you to not feel that or not have to live through that. And that's what Jersey, who's played by Shoshana Bean, who is absolutely mind-blowing, not to mention Malia Joy Moon, who is a new discovery in the theater. This is her first Broadway, this is her introduction to Broadway, and she's stunning. But that you inherit the fear of those that love you sometimes. So how do you overcome that is some of what you are finding yourself thinking about. So Alicia, can we go back to the beginning of the idea of this? It's a long road, like I said, 13 years. I think it's been. Yeah. So I'm doing the math. You're a young woman. Right. Thinking about a Broadway show. What were those early ideas? What did you see and how does it compare to what's being performed on this stage? It began as a girl with my mother, who was the kind of quintessential New York story is, she's living, is the quintessential New York story. Thank God, because I love her so much. And she moved from Toledo, Ohio, begged her mom to come to NYU to study stage theater. And ended up coming here at 19. And so as our life progressed, she would always take me to the theater, which I think maybe relate to. Yes, I do. And this was a special thing for us. We would stand on the TKTS line and get the inexpensive tickets so we could go to see different shows. And I remember seeing shows that really opened me up to so much of what Broadway is. I remember seeing Rent. I remember seeing Noise Funk. I remember seeing Chicago or I just remember seeing so many pieces. So as I was starting to express my creativity and find my way as an artist, it was always something that I knew that there were these diverse stories that I'd experienced in my life. But I wasn't always seeing them translated out in the world. And so this building that I grew up in, Manhattan Plaza, which really is the set of where we're sitting right now. And it's the foundation of Hell's Kitchen. It really takes place in this building. These buildings are very famous. They're one of a kind. There's two towers that stand opposite each other on 42nd, between 42nd and 43rd between 9th and 10th avenues. And these buildings are the one place where it was subsidized living for artists. So my mother ended up moving into this building. I ended up growing up in this building. And those stories, those New York experiences are really what has shaped Hell's Kitchen. And I just knew that I wanted to talk about these stories. I wanted to talk about these people. I wanted to talk about this girl, this time in life that's so precious. I wanted to talk about this culture in the 90s with music and fashion and what the world was like. Hell's Kitchen was quite a dark place in the 90s. It was actually very dangerous, very dark. It was a hard place to grow up as a kid and definitely as a girl, a young woman. And so these themes are what started to circle around. And that's what I knew there was something special there. And I had to figure out, how can I bring that to life? And people would always ask me, "Will you do musicals? Will you do right music for films? Will you do a musical film, a musical TV show, a musical of..." And I was like, maybe? And I was just trying to figure out what would I do? And so all of those inspirations and kind of pushed me to developing Hell's Kitchen ultimately 13 years ago. And knowing what I know about you is you weren't just going to hand this to somebody else and say, "You guys make the show, throw my name on it." No! That's not your style. No, this is like, it's so important. I treasure the art. I treasure the art form. All of the art forms that I'm able to be a part of, it's sacred. You know, it's a craft. It's something that requires the care and the time. And all of the pieces have to come together perfectly, which is why the book writer Chris Diaz was such an intentional choice. He and I have been together the longest on this road because finding the person to, you know, "Here is this idea, how do you bring it to life?" So finding that partnership is really important and he's been the most amazing partner in the process. Identifying Michael Greif who is a veteran in the space. You know, one of my first shows was Rent, you know. And so, you know, his expertise has been so important to be able to make sure that there's kind of this newbie energy mixed with this very, very veteran, clear vision as well. And that's important. So all of these pieces that I've been personally, like, doctoring together and then with the help of an incredible team, make it feel, I mean, it's undeniable. You're going to love this. There's no way you come here and don't feel yourself in your community and your world inside of it. And I have to say you don't have to have grown up in Hell's Kitchen or come from this community being touched and moved. I grew up in Jersey across the river because there are pieces at the show about different relationships in your life that are going to hit anybody sitting out there. It's right. It's family. It's community. It's real life. It's those nuances that you relate to because everyone goes through them in their own way. So I agree. And that's what I love about it. You can come from France, you can come from Jersey, you can come from Alabama. It doesn't matter. You're going to find yourself here. Hey, guys. Thanks for listening to the Sunday Sit Down podcast. Stick around to hear more from Alicia Keys right after the break. Welcome to How to Fail, the podcast that believes that learning how to fail actually means learning how to succeed better. This week, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm joined by actual Kate Winslet. There was almost this assumption that you were fair game, that your privacy was automatically not something you should expect to have anymore, and that you were almost asking for it, certainly from the British press. This is an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment original podcast. And now, wherever you get your podcasts. The air hung heavy in the courtroom. The people pressed shoulder to shoulder. They'd heard the gossip and the whispers about a family teaming with passion and hate about a mysterious disappearance and a pile of bones found burning in a lion pit. And now they wanted to know what really happened. But even they were not prepared for the story that came spelling out. The secrets, the lies, the confessions, and the ending, so unimaginable. And now, you will hear it too. The Dead Alive, a Morrison Mysteries, a true story that became a classic novel. Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts. Hi Book Lovers, this is Ellen Hildebrand, best-selling author of 30 Books, including the Hotel Noun Tuckett and the Perfect Couple. And this is Tim Ehrenberg, creator of Tim Talks Books. We're the hosts of Book Speech and Beyond, the hit literary podcast presented by End Magazine, where we dive into the wonderful world of books speaking with special guests from award-winning writers, agents, editors, book influencers, and more. That's right, Ellen. And we're back for season two this year after an incredible premiere season in 2023, that included conversations with Taylor Jenkins Reid, Kristen Hannah, Frederick Bachmann, and Patchett, Jodie Pico, Colleen Hoover, Reid with Jenna's very own Jenna Bushhanger and other big-name authors and publishing industry insiders. And season two will be no different, we'll be chatting with more of your favorite writers about their craft and what we're all reading. And as with anything you and I too, there's no shortage of laughs. So we hope you'll tune in to Book Speech and Beyond, available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure to check us out online at booksbeachandbeyond.com and on Instagram, @booksbeachandbeyond. Welcome back now more, my conversation with Alicia Keys. So to be clear, this is not autobiographical. People might come in and say, "Oh, I'm watching the story of Alicia Keys," like, it's not. Right. There are elements of your experience in your story, of course, that are in this. So how, when I come to watch this, do I delineate between Alicia Keys and Allie? Like, where are the differences as you see them? You know, there are differences. Actually, Allie is kind of a little bit more gullible, a little bit more naive even, you know. She's really been quite protected and so she's just starting to find her wings in her space. But it's intentionally not autobiographical because this is a story that really takes the essence, that that kind of New York experience essence and brings it into a way, into a story line that really, that really shows you what it takes to kind of find your way in the world. And that's why it becomes everybody's story because no matter what part of our life we're in, we're all looking for who we are now, who we're becoming, and how do we get there, which is not always an easy road, you know? And I think ultimately, what it really is, and this I can relate to very much, is a love story between a mother and a daughter. And you really recognize a love story between a parent and a child, and you really recognize that no matter what, there is this deep, profound connection that you share, and even through the rocky parts of trying to figure out and the disconnection and the tension and all of those, the angst, which we've all experienced, you know, there's no one you can trust more than your mother, you know, and it's incredible. So the songs, so many of the songs which I've written new songs, and there's also some favorite songs in there, they're done in a way that even I never expected them to be portrayed. Of course, putting it together, I intentionally wanted to deconstruct the expectation of what you might get from the song. Right. So I didn't want you to come in here and just kind of think you were going to get what you thought you were going to get. You're not. Musically, actually. And so there's so many ways that the songs are arranged and composed that tell the story of what you're experiencing, that even I'm like, "Why didn't I ever do this? Why did I think to do that song in that way before? I performed it like hundreds of times, but I never meant that to me before." And that's what I think has been thrilling as the songwriter too. The songs mean something brand new to me, not to mention the new songs, which I'm so excited for. I'm glad you said that because I loved the way you rearranged the songs that we all know and love. Because this easily could have just been Alicia Keys. Everything along, and everybody's singing the songs, you know, but you sort of subtly sneak them into a conversation. She's got, you know, this girl was like, "Oh, that's away." Oh, wait. This song I know by heart, it took me a second to get to it. So how did you think about incorporating that into the story and into the dialogue? Because it's so seamless, you know. I love that. And I do love that. I love that you said that because it's very intentional and everyone had their eyes on the music. In fact, Michael brought some of the most, we would fight. I said, "That song, no, that doesn't work." And we would do it in the scene. I said, "Look, I'll try it for you, Michael, but I don't think it works." We would do it, and it would be perfect. And I would never have even thought that that belonged in that space because the music is so intentionally about pushing forward the storyline. And so it really, as opposed to it just kind of recapping whatever just happens, it really furthers the story and deepens it. And so that required, how does that fit to nook, you know, who's played by Chris Lee, who's unbelievable. He's amazing. He's so good. His character has so much depth and he really anchors Ali. He's kind of her first love interest. And so she's kind of baffled by the whole feeling and he really anchors her in a lot of ways. And so how would they communicate knowing that she's quite naive and youthful and he's a little bit more experienced? How would they communicate through this song? And so things like that were the expression "fall in" is one of my favorites. You will never expect "fall in" when you hear it. It's actually sung by Brandon Victor Dixon, who is another mind-blowing actor voice artist. And when he sings it, no one can believe it. They're out there. They cannot believe not only how beautiful his voice sounds, but we purposefully created a sonic for it that is quite different from "fall in" although you recognize it and you can sing along with it. Brandon Victor Dixon character Davis, each character is modeled after a musical vision. And so his has a bit of like a Sammy Davis Jr. That's his anchor when I'm thinking musically. And so we wanted to make sure that he's a complex character. He hasn't been steady in Ali's life. You can tell that Jersey and Davis have a very passionate relationship, but it just doesn't work. And so they have to admit that. And when he's around, everything is kind of magical and wonderful. And so it has that sense to it and that's what gave me the Sammy Davis Jr. reference. And so when he sings "fall in" it has very jazzy elements to it and it's quite shocking. So that was one of my favorite things to do to take songs that you think you know how they're going to sound and to totally reinvent them. And my second favorite thing to do was to create these new songs. I was going to ask you about "Caleidoscope" which is the first single one. It is. Right off the soundtrack. A great song. So you've got to sort of come up with some new stuff to plug in to your existing songs. It needed it. And I remember we tried very hard to make a song, one of my songs "Superwoman" fit into this moment where kind of Jersey is expressing how frustrated she is with what a 17-year-old is like putting her through. And she's talking to her friends and she's like, "It's driving me crazy." Tried to use "Superwoman" and I had this whole way where I was imagining Ali and Jersey kind of, "Who's the Superwoman?" And you know, they were in this tension place and so, "This is me expressing myself as a woman. This is me expressing myself as a woman." And we tried it and tried it and every time Michael would kind of be like, "Okay. I think we need a new song." And I was like, "I think we need a new song." You agreed? I agreed. I agreed. And Chris wrote this line and he said, "At the time in the workshops," he said, "Because she's 17 and a brain doesn't work. Because if you think about a 17-year-old, it's just my brain didn't work as 17. I mean, it worked how I thought it was working, but it wasn't really rational or functioning to the best degree because I had to learn so much. And I knew that was the song, "17." And so that was when I started to write this song in the show that I would consider my first musical theater song, I think, that I've written. It's called "17." It's one of my favorite songs in the show. It's Jersey's song. She has all of this bravado and brass crass lace, she's saying it. To me, it's very Carol Burnett. It's very like some of my favorites, Bernadette Peters. It has this energy to it that's so powerful. And I love this song. And the way it falls in the show, it has kind of a fun, comical, but true expression. Yeah. And such big voices and the performances. I mean, I was saying before we started, I mean, top to bottom. I mean, everybody on that stage shocks you at one moment or another, where they go with the notes or... Wow. I mean, just blowing the back out of this place. No, this place is electrified. It is. With the talent. Yeah. The talent is extremely undeniable. It's just, I mean, they are the best of the best. And there's so many newcomers, which I think infuses a certain thrill to every night, you know? Many of the choreography was done by Camille A. Brown, and she is stunning. I mean, the way the storytelling that the bodies add to it as well. Not only does the music further the story, but the choreography takes you to places that we wouldn't have been able to just say. It's those nuances that, you know, touch your spirit. And so, many of the dancers, this is also their first time on Broadway. And so there's a spirit that comes out here with these newcomers, one of the two of Allie's friends. They're both new, they're both newcomers. Vanessa Ferguson, I actually, she was my artist on The Voice. Oh, I didn't realize that. And when I heard her voice on The Voice, I was like, whoa, this artist is unbelievable. She rhymed, she sang, she had this beautiful husky. And as time progressed and I started putting together the workshops, we were looking for the tiny character. Her name is Tiny, she's kind of tough, she's from New York, she's like, and I said, Vanessa. And I know for a fact that I did The Voice to meet Vanessa to make it for her to be a part of this show. Wow. And it's all divinely tied together. And I love what you say that you can't fake New York and this is New York and you thought about that in casting, right? Absolutely. Did they have to be from New York or just be able to capture New York? You know, it's tricky. It is a New York story in New York, but it's, you know, again, it's because it's such a family story. You can relate to it no matter where you're from, but that New York energy is very important. And we're talking about a very specific time in New York, which was different from now, you know? Yeah. Although it's timeless, when you come, you kind of don't know. Is it today? Is it then you don't really get caught up in that? But that undercurrent of the theme has to stay pure and true. So yes, you do have to have that New York energy. You can't teach it. I can't teach you how to embody it. I can't teach you how to feel it. I can't teach you how to present it. And so you don't have to be from New York, but you do have to have a certain thing, you know? I actually even noticed the accents growing up around here. I was like, those are the right, even if they're not from here. It's the right. They got it. They got it. They'd be like, no, no, no. Keep working on it. There was one guy, there was one person that auditioned in his, he was a phenomenal actor. I mean, so, so good. I knew he wasn't. He just couldn't embody that spirit. I just knew it. And I was like, I don't want to be fighting him the whole time, not that I would be fighting him to worry I'm not a fighter, I'm a lover, but you know, I don't want to have to pull what's unnatural from someone. It should feel like easy. And that's what you get here. And that's why I think you feel the spirit of the city and the characters because of, because it is so based on the experiences of growing up in New York, you really feel that truth. It's in here. It's alive. It's real. Stick around for more of my conversation with Alicia Keys right after a quick break. Adriana Brock, shop today editorial director, and my team does the research for you. We test thousands of products and recommend only the stuff we love. From carefully curated gift guides to exclusive coupons for today's show insiders, just text shop to 34318 to stay up on all the trends and get deep discounts on the brands you love. Text shop to 34318. Hi everybody, it's Craig Melvin from The Today Show. It's back to everything season and that means everything football today goes inside the NFL like nobody else with behind the scenes stories on and off the field today is at the center of it all. And of course, every game needs a tailgate. So we're going to help you dominate yours with winning game day recipes from the best chefs. Be there all season long on today, every morning at 7 a.m. only on NBC. Welcome back now to the rest of my conversation with Alicia Keys. So given everything you've put into this for 13 years, and every detail that you've just explained, you are into tweaking and fixing and getting right, what does it feel like to be sitting here now just a few days from opening night of your Broadway show Hell's Kitchen. Is it exciting? Is it nerve-wracking all of those? I don't feel nerve-wracked. I feel quite steady, you know, which is such a nice thing, you know? I feel steady because I know the time that we've taken to build this. This is not a rush job. This is not a, you know, it's been years and years of development and I feel proud of that. I feel like you can't rush greatness and I'm good with that. When it's time, it's time and I do feel now is the time. And so I feel steady, but what I'll tell you what, growing up in New York City, I walk all of these streets, all of these blocks, they were unattainable to me. How could I ever imagine as a 7-year-old or a 9-year-old or a 10-year-old that this could be possible? I couldn't. You know? And so when I pull up to this chubert theater and there's a marquee that says, "Hell's Kitchen," the place I grew up, the place that raised me, that gave me the fire to become the woman that I am, I can't put into words what that feels like. And I say, I mean, it gets me a little, I'm not a crier, but it gets me, it gets me and I say, I don't care how many times I pull up to this thing, this is crazy, this is crazy. And so I'm thrilled about it because it is such a solid heartfelt coming of age story and it works and I'm so proud of it. So you should be, and I feel exactly what you're saying, for people don't realize, building you grew up in is what, four or five blocks from here? Right. But it's a different universe. Right. When you grow up here, you come in here and they've got theaters and tourists and all that. So I imagine for you, as someone who lined up at the TKTS booth with your mom to try to get into a show here and there, it's almost like you've stepped on the other side of the mirror and now you're in, you're on this stage. You're not out there. You're not out there. You're not out there. You're not out there. You're not out there. You're not out there. You're not out there. You're not out there. You're not out there. You're not out there. You're not out there. That's heavy stuff. You know? It's true. It's incredible. It's incredible. And I'm so proud of the artists that are part of it. I'm proud of the Culture of Fellows Kitchen. We have this beautiful fellowship program that we created that really opened the doors and it's really tremendous because I think, you know, for me, I would have never had opportunities, had, you know, there had not been new ways in, you know? And I think that this is a beautiful part of the culture and the promise of this show. And the tagline is remember where dreams begin. And I really love that because everybody can remember where their dreams begin. Even if it was just yesterday, your dreams begin somewhere. And that is something we have to hold on to forever. Do your dream begin when you first sat in front of a piano at seven years old? Yeah. Because I was able to unlock a world that I had no idea what it was going to be able to, what doors it would be able to take me through. And that's the reason why I chose keys for my last name. Because I played the keys and the piano keys, but because they opened doors. And I want to forever open doors. And so this is a new door being opened. And it is, I would have never thought that when I sat down at the piano, I had to play those skills 100,000 times or I was learning a bunch of classical songs. And then I started to learn stride music and blues and jazz and soul. And I started to be able to create a gumbo of music, which is what you actually hear in Hell's Kitchen. You hear jazz. You hear classical. You hear soul. You hear, you know, you hear so many sonics that take you on a journey. And it all began at seven when I touched those keys. You know, so man, you don't know where life's going to take you. And it wasn't a casual hobby, was it? I mean, you were practicing hours a day to get good at it, right? Classical music, I started studying classical. And classical music, you cannot casually study. There's no such thing. You really have to know it. You have to learn it. You have to embody it. It's quite difficult. It takes not only hours, but days and months when we were prepared for recitals in the Ellington Room in Manhattan Plaza, which is a, you know, when Allie meets her mentor, the woman that will become her mentor is Miss Liza Jane. Oh, Liza Jane. Unforgettable. I mean. You... Right? Play by Keisha Lewis was phenomenal. She's in that Ellington Room. And so it's things like that, that tie the story to the personal New York experience. But when you're preparing for a recital, particularly a classical recital, you're playing 10 to 15 pages of music, you know? And so you obviously have to dedicate a lot of time. And I'm grateful for what the piano taught me in regards to dedication and patience and work, diligence, the craft of how to become better, how to continue to grow, you know? How to get past your frustrations, your own personal doubts. You know, you feel like at one time I'm never going to be able to play that piece. I can't even play the first six measures. How am I going to play 18 pages? What do you do? So at what point, Alicia, did it go from I enjoy playing the piano, I work hard at it, I'm getting pretty good at it, people seem to like it when I play to this can be a career. Like this can be my life. Or was it always that for you? Because you watched your mom, you're a performer as well. In other words, did you ever think you'd be anything other than a musician? Anything other than a musician. Or was that it for you? You know, I did, I started singing first. So I sang younger than I played. You were in Cats. I was in Wizard of Oz. The Wizard of Oz. Doorky, by the way. Doorky. Okay. Well, thanks. I forgot. Smaller role in Cats, and then they're like, "She's good. Make her doorky." Dorothy. So, and which by the way, I do, I'm so excited for Hell's Kitchen to be everybody's school play. Oh, yes. I'm really, really excited about that. You've already gotten to that point. I'm there. So, but so I sang first, but in regards to piano, when I started playing piano, it really started to make sense. Then it became this fusion of worlds that I could kind of control almost, which I thought was one of my favorite things about being able to play the piano is it makes me quite independent. You know? I don't have to wait for other people to create something for me. And I'm really grateful, although I fought my mother about staying, and I didn't want to play anymore. No one else is doing it. I'm the only one stuck in the house and all the things that you feel as a kid. And, you know, she had that gentle balance of kind of like, "Yeah, you're not going to stop this." It's okay. She did a little break. She did a good job with that because I was able to hang on. And I think we can say now that she was right, by the way. She was set. I think it turned out pretty well. Thank God she didn't let me do something silly like quit. Could you imagine? Could you imagine? The world would not have Alicia Keys. Wow. Don't want to think about that world. Well, you're the sweetest, especially sweet. But you're your first timeout, you know, when you got your record deal, then you moved to Harris to Clive and all that. Right. Your first timeout with Fallen. Right. And A minor. Right. Number one album. Number one song sells millions of copies. You win five Grammys. Wow. So you go from the Ellington room to the top of the music world. What was that time in your life like? And definitely wasn't as linear as that. You know what I mean? It was so many years in between. And I started, I started at 16, really, in this world of the entertainment world and being signed and et cetera. And so I was so young that it was just, I didn't even know if I was coming or going or how to get there or what to do and written some of these songs. But I'm like, well, how do I write anymore? Like, how do I do anything else? So it was quite challenging to figure out how to maintain my self and also to maintain my own version for myself, my own vision for myself. Because people do try to make you who they want you to be. And again, back to Hell's Kitchen, that is a lot of what you're seeing Ali go through. People are telling her what she shouldn't do, what she shouldn't go, what she has to do. And you do, people do have a tendency to tell us who we're supposed to be. And I don't know how right that is. You know, they don't allow us to become who we're meant to be. They kind of scare us into becoming a version of who they think is best for us to be. And so went through a lot of that and kind of had the strength and a New York grit enough to say like, no, I don't like this and I'm not with that and I want to express like this. And here's how I'm going to say it and I'm going to do it through a bunch of fear because I didn't know if I could, but I found my way through that. And that gave me what I'd like to think is something different, you know? Something different. No one knew what to do with me. They didn't know how to, they were like, what is this? How do we break this? How do we get this on the radio? What do we do? So it was a journey of divine timing and people who cared to make it all come together. But you never know how it's going to happen. What an affirmation that you said, I'm going to do it my way. I'm going to trust that this is going to work. A lot of people say it isn't going to work. And for your way to be the one that worked? I think that as individuals you do know who you are. You get cloudy, things get noisy, sometimes you're uncertain, but ultimately no one knows you better than you. And as soon as we can know that, and then know yes, it's going to not go exactly how you thought, is it going to maybe, you know, fall over? Sure. But at least it did so because you made that choice. And I think that's what I've learned that I can live with that. I can feel great about that actually. And then I can keep going. That's well said. And you bring all of that to this, which is just, I don't know if you're supposed to say this, does it jinx it? I don't know. Maybe I should say it was tied up. There's no jinx. But anyway, all I'll say is people are going to love this show. I hope it's here for a very, very long time. And in middle and high schools after that. Thirty-five plus years, Phantom of the Opera. Chicago. Let's go Hamilton. Let's go. I just want to be in the company of some of the greatest because I'm humbly and truly thankful for this experience, for the ability to create something that will touch people, move people, make people feel good, make you cry, make you call your mom after. The amount of people that say I called my mom, or the mom of mothers that say my child, they wrote me this thing after they saw the show. It's going to bring you together and it's going to fill you with spirit and love. And I'm just grateful to be able to be a small part of that. Well, it does that. It was a gift to watch that with my mom. So thank you for that. Congratulations. Thank you. It was great. I appreciate it. Thanks Alicia. My big thanks to Alicia for a great conversation. Always wonderful to sit down with her. You can see the new musical Hell's Kitchen in the Schubert Theatre on Broadway. Thanks to all of you, of course, for listening again this week. To hear more of my conversations with our guests every week, we're sure to click follow so you never miss an episode. And don't forget to tune in to Sunday Today, every weekend, on NBC. I'm Willie Geist. We'll see you right back here next week. And the Sunday sit down. [MUSIC] Only on Meet the Press. Just six weeks until Election Day, Steve Cronackey breaks down the state of the race in a new NBC News poll. 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