The PFF NFL Podcast
Aidan Hutchinson's Dominance, Jets DL Concerns, & Von Miller IS BACK
(upbeat music) - What's up everybody? Welcome back to the PFF NFL show on a Trench's Tuesday. It's another episode of In the Trench's here for week two in the NFL where we're taking a look at impactful trench play which could be a number of things. It could be a trend, it could be a certain team, a certain unit or a certain player. And for you guys, we got a treat 'cause we're kind of digging into all three of those categories here on today's show. I'm Trevor Sigma, that is the owner and author of the Substack Read Optional, Ollie Conley. Ollie, how you doing today my friend? - I'm doing good. What a week two, maybe one of the most fun weeks we've seen I think in some time. Production may be down, people may be upset by that, but I get to see Run Fits trip. I get to watch the Run Fits and it's very exciting. You know, it is funny, everybody's talking about this on social media, how the passing yards are down, the points are down, the explosive plays are down and you go, "What's going on?" Well, we get to talk about what's going on now. You know, when we talk about the review show, it's a lot of treetop stuff where, you know, we're talking about some of the stats that matter, but I love this show here with you, especially in a year like the one that we have. And I'm glad that you brought that up because if points are down, something's going on. Offences are too good, quarterbacks are too good, and it's this chess match, this cyclical chess match, if you will, between offense and defense. And it feels like the defense is getting the upper hand a little bit early on in this season. And that's actually where I want to start here with you. And when I asked you kind of what you wanted to talk about this week and if anything stood out to you, you brought up Aiden Hutchinson specifically and you were like, "I think we got to talk about this." Four and a half sacks against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and it's not just the sacks though. You wanted to bring up a grander point. How do you stop stud edge-rushers? Because when we do our ranking episodes or our ranking pieces in the off-season, we'll be like, "Ah, okay, like who's the top edge-rushers "in the NFL and we'll rank 'em and everything like that? "People get mad, you know, it's a great thing." But when we get to the edge-rusher piece, Nick Bosa, Miles Garrett, Max Crosby, TJ Watt, Aiden Hutchinson now. Like there's just, there are so many of these guys who are at the very top. And it's just, we're blessed with these dominant edge-rushers in the NFL. Michael Parsons, I forgot to bring up him 'cause we're talking about him here. How do you stop these guys? What goes into it every single week? And obviously the Buccaneers had a tough time doing that and say, "Aiden Hutchinson, we're kind of talking about it "because of that." But the way that you brought it up to me and I love it is like, "Hey, let's talk about "how you stop these guys." 'Cause Parsons himself, he's got multiple dope, like, two-sack games throughout his entire career. And so I'll kind of just open it up to you and I watched a bunch of these guys in their film that we have so far in 2024. So I've got some thoughts as well. But just what do you think about like a performance like Hutchinson's and ones that we have seen in the past where defensive lines clearly emphasize their star and then offenses sort of have to just figure out how to slow these guys down? Yeah, well, it's really difficult. It's virtually impossible when you get the really great ones. I think the Parsons one was particularly interesting. I thought Clink Cubeac did an unbelievable job of slowing down my capacitance. And it kind of goes to this point of if you don't have a true stud tackle or a true stud interior player, if you're playing against a great interior defensive lineman, what can you do stylistically, systematically to try and like help everyone out? And it's about the whole ecosystem, right? It's about, can we run the ball? What can we do with our helps? Our checks is the quarterback get the ball out on time. I've always thought that section as this debate is a quarterback's ties that align side to team staff. It's everyone involved. If you've run the ball well, it helps us out. If the receivers get open quickly, it helps us out. This ain't in particular a fascinating, fascinating game plan to slow down my capacitance where they kind of brought a wave of blockers. So instead of just having like a straight double team or just chipping on the end as most teams try and do with these top guys, right? You give, you put a tight end in the wing. We say, crack this guy for us then release. Buy as an extra beat if you can and stop the juice off the ball. What the Saints did, they were running the ball so well, they were hitting play action shots so well, they were bringing guys across the formation to take my capacitance on. They were leaking the back out to take my capacitance on, but they did it in a wave. So he has to beat the initial blocker and then he gets through that when he's like, great job done. And then here comes another guy out of nowhere does clean him in the ear and he's gonna go figure that out too. So it was a really, really interesting plan. Actually, it reminds me a lot of how teams have started to attack Pat Mahomes and Lamar Jackson in the pressure game, which is bringing like a layered pass first 'cause they know, well, if we send all four guys at once, they're probably gonna beat someone. These guys are too good. And then we're just exposed. So team just started to layer the rush where you get one guy go through, then a second wave comes. So once the guy beats someone in the backfield, here comes a new unblocked defender to try and clean things up. And what was most notable at Parsons for me when you dig through some of the data, one, the Saints really ran very few straight dropbacks. And if they did, they had two guys, but two guys went from different angles. And then as you go even more granularly, Parsons get off rate was really, really slow. He was slow off the ball. And I think personally, because they were running the ball so well, the play action was so good. There was guys coming from all different angles he wasn't expecting that he's just hesitating. They got one of the best downhill threats in the league. The most terrifying downhill pass reasons to stop patting his feet, wondering where the blocks were coming from. And I don't know what more you can do than freeze a great pass rush. - That's, I mean, it's a really good call out by you, especially that last part where, you know, again, we've talked about what ways can you sort of stop that explosive first step? 'Cause bringing it into a little bit of a scouting perspective, you know, me as somebody who loves the NFL Draft. When I'm watching Ed Ruchers, one of the first things that I will look for and I will note is what's the first step like? Can you get off the ball? Because if you can in a very impactful way, it puts so much stress on even the best offensive tackles to hit their landmarks in their drops and get to a certain spot where they feel comfortable protecting their outside shoulder without overextending to give up the inside shoulder. And it's just, it's, like you said, it's so difficult to stop the guys who are really good at it, but it starts with that first step. And if you can do anything to give those Ed Ruchers a little hesitation and take a little juice off of that first step, sometimes that wins the battle in and of itself. You mentioned that we see tight ends sometimes, kind of detached from the line of scrimmage in that wing-backed format as a way to really slow these guys down. And for the Saints in particular, this is just another opportunity to kind of give a hat tip to what a great job their offensive coordinator, Clint Kubiak is doing this season because a talking point that we had going into the year was the Saints were pretty good at play action last year. They weren't terrible, but they were pretty good. They just didn't run it a lot. It just were a team that I think they were either second to last or last in the NFL in total play action attempts last year. Kubiak with the 49ers is their pass game coordinator. They didn't run it, you know, most in the NFL last year, but they were number one in passing grade off of play action. So it was very clear that they understood philosophically what play action did for them in their offense. And they called it advantageous times. Brock Purdy last year was very comfortable in how Clint Kubiak and Kyle Shanahan were calling play action in that system. And Derek Carr in the Saints, it feels like are very comfortable in doing that as well. And I think that that is something that is worth noting 'cause I think that people think about PFF and we just think that you should never run the ball. That the running back position should never exist, you know, it's pointless. There's better EPA per play. When you pass the football, just pass it all the time. And the coaches will kind of come back to us and people who are more, you know, in the game and on the sidelines and be like, no, no, no, no. You don't understand the secondary and insiliary points of running the football, what that does to you. And I do believe there is an unquantifiable mental aspect of running the football that goes into something that is like this. You need to create that little bit of hesitation with some of these incredible edge rushers and you do that by either running the ball straight up and being good at it or play action, at least making them think you might be running the ball. Because if Mike Parsons is getting off the snap at even 70, 80%, it's just not 100, that could mean all the difference in the world. So I'm glad that you brought that up with the Saints specifically about how they did that there because I think the incorporation of play action and the mental warfare that it gives these defenses is a very important part of why the Saints are having so much success. - Yeah, it was the fifth slowest get-off of his career. And he's had games where he's not being fully healthy and he looked really healthy when he had a free get-off. He looked absolutely fine. He still had three pressures and they were all, he got out the cleat pressures, right? Those one were more of a second effort, but for the most part, they didn't have the ball and beat someone. If you can put that in someone's head, you're right, the way we kind of do the analysis when it's like how impactful is the run game is kind of go play by play. And what you lose is like the concerteering effect of standing in the hoodle and nothing being more demoralizing than we physically can't stop these guys. They just want to play it. I mean, the Cowboys won. It was just a disastrous defensive performance in terms of fit, talent, everything up from, they had eight guys in the box constantly and they were getting blown off the ball. What could be a worse feeling than coming to the side? I mean, we could not physically put more guys in the middle of the field and we can't stop anyone. What do we do? And then when they boot out of it or they take a shot of it, they are just gashing us every 70 yards over our heads. She heaters in the end zone dancing. It's like, there's no worse feeling. And if you can do that and limit a top tier pass pressure now, it sounds all good and grand to say, right? I've like, well, let's just run the ball and the old school ways we run at them, right? Drain the legs of the pass pressure by running at him. Guys like Parsons and Hutchinson are so good against the run. It isn't a helpful thing to just run directly at them. But if you can marry that with what you're doing in the play action game and put the doubting of what is coming and just the physical toll of a guy fronting you from the side that you didn't see coming, that's really impactful. And then the seats just need credit because the tenacity, the technique, the discipline of their players was unbelievable. It's easy to just say the plan was great and it was good and QBX done great and he has. But Alvin Kamara sticking his nose and I'm Michael Parsons, he had one-on-one assignments. Usually we'd all clip that and go, what are they doing? Why are you leaving her back on Michael Parsons? It was part of the plan. He was perfect technically. He brought it one-on-one. You just can't ask for more from the players. - Man, yeah, it's, we're only two weeks in, but the Saints with QBX are up in his coordinator. Looked like the version of the Saints that felt like we were supposed to get a lot more last year, right, when they were predicted to win the division and they've made some additions. Obviously, Felice Fowonga being able to take one of those offense attack spots is big for them, but you know, you would have had Ryan Ramchik. So it's like, you know, it's sort of, that even existed last year. And so some changes along the interior offensive line, some guys playing really good, but I think that's a really good call out by you there. If you have more partisan points, I'd love to hear them, but I had to point out Aiden Hutchinson because what he's been doing over these last two weeks, I don't know if there's a more confident edge rusher in the NFL, and I think that you see that in the results that he is having. Now, the four and a half sack game against the Buccaneers, they don't have Luke Geddicki at the right side and Justin Skool is. - This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates, potential savings will vary, not available in all states or situations. - It was never going to work out. You know, they had a really tough time and obviously Tampa wins the game, even though Hutchison goes off anyway. So it's one of those little things where it's like, hey, okay, your star can go off. If you don't have anybody else, then we still think that we're going to beat you and that's ended up, that ended up being what happened with the Buccaneers. But when I watch Hutchison, this is more of a, I'm in awe of how good he is and how well he is set up to have success in Detroit's defensive line more than in his high stop. Because I think there's a little bit of an answer to that, but even that is tough. You're sacrificing one thing to give it another. Hutchison will consistently line up as like a wide seven rusher, right? Where he's not over the outside shoulder of the last offensive tackle in a like five technique, he's further out. He's like another gap out, if you will, as if there was a tight end attached to line of scrimmage. Now, sometimes there is, but sometimes there isn't. They're very comfortable lining him up in that wide seven technique anyways. And the reason why they do that is because if he can come at an angle like that, what I've noticed in particular is, of course it stresses the offensive tackle to now get out a little bit wider to be able to challenge him. But Hutchison loves that inside spin move counter and he hits it so well and so regularly with so much success. In just the two games that I watched from this year, that the entire setup that they have, which is they overload, they overload one side of the line of scrimmage with more numbers, more defensive lineman, more linebackers over there. So offensive lines have to probably slide their protections just for numbers to get to, let's say, the left side of the line of scrimmage. Meanwhile, on the right side of the line of scrimmage, they have a three technique defense attacker that's lined up against the interior offensive lineman and then they have Aidan Hutchinson lined up way, way further on the outside. This gives Hutchison the one-on-one matchup with the offensive tackle coming from a wider alignment. With the three techniques set up on that side of the line of scrimmage, it means that he can take the interior offensive lineman and it means that the center and the other guard and the other tackle have to slide the other way because there's more numbers there. That entire setup for what Detroit has been doing early this season, I believe is in place for Hutchison to specifically hit the inside spin move because that thing is devastating. And truth be told, I don't really know how you stop it unless you have a back in the backfield next to the quarterback who you make that running back's job to guard the inside shoulder of the offensive tackle and say, okay, over set on him and protect that outside shoulder because if he spins on you will have a running back there to be able to put their shoulder straight into his chest outside of that though, Ollie. I think it's just a beautiful setup right now with what the Lions defensive line is doing for Hutchison to succeed. - Yeah, there's really not much you can do, honestly, just from a coaching standpoint because what you end up with and we noted this with Parsons, like it's really nice and fun when you're winning or running the ball while the play action's working and you can say, oh, we're gonna run this like wave blocking mechanism where you've gotta work through multiple bodies at multiple levels and not know where they're coming from. That's all great. It's a really good plan. The problem is you're washing out eligible's all over the field. You're limiting what you can get to in the passing game. So if you start saying we're chipping, we're keeping the back in every play, just eligible's, eligible's going, going, going and you're committing two or three resources, the eyes of the quarterback and the two blockers to Aidan Hutchinson and all of a sudden you're in trouble elsewhere in the field. So it's really difficult. I mean, so far this season, the only thing I will say is I don't think he's gone against a rosterable NFL player. That in the Rams game after the injury and against school, those guys are not NFL caliber players that he is just demolishing. I mean, the pass for us win rate, I think it's 42% because anything happened like that ever in the history of time. It's just, it's ludicrous. And what they do with the alignment that's so interesting is because he's so offset and the rest of the front is often reduced, it's really difficult to chip him. So even like the most basic go-to mechanics, which Tampa tried to do in this game and it was funny because they would often just say to often, well, you just take him then because we're going to squeeze the inside. And often was actually better one on one. The school was going against Aidan Hutchinson. - Yeah, I didn't help the zone. - Yeah. - He hung in there. So it's just, it's really, really tricky. You made a great point about the lines. A lot of what they do with their front, and I say this all the time, I said it to you last week, I'll say it throughout the season and then boring the listeners with this is you have to just think of the collective pass first plan. What is the pressure path? What are we trying to achieve? It's not all happening in isolation and they're doing so many small things to make it so, which is a big trend across the league. We through our alignment will set your protection for you. We know what the rules are. We know what you will do based on the alignment of our front. So if we can set the rules, we know how to attack the rules and you nailed it perfectly. If I get a three technique screaming across the face of the guard, there's going to be a wide open lane for the other guy to cut back inside. I know we have the best guy cutting back inside, possibly. In the NFL and it's just to me, it's the violence and the explosion he plays with. It's really like Michael Strahan to me, where Strahan would just throw everything he had from his cleats to his helmet into whoever was in his way and Hudson for me just plays with that level of fire. Every single rep so you have the unbelievable burst, the length, the quickness, the subtlety, the intelligence, the technique and to cap it all off. He's playing a speed and an explosivity through people's pads that is just tough to match for anyone in the league. He, the motor is insane for Hudson. It is like he doesn't feel pain. It is like he doesn't care how many bruises are on his body after the game. You see him in his pass rush form and it's like it's perfect. It's a sprinter stance, right? He has the one arm all the way back. So the second that that ball moves at all whatsoever, he is throwing that arm forward like a sprinter so that his entire momentum is now going at full speed. He'll run into those offensive tackles like, you know, many car crashes every single play. It's wild. So you mentioned, hey, he hasn't played against a roster of all or starting caliber offensive tackle. They're at the Arizona Cardinals this week. So he'll get Kelvin Beachum. He'll get Parrish Johnson Jr. I think this will be a great test for Parrish Johnson Jr. specifically who ended the year really nice last year. I haven't checked on how he's done this year yet, but Seattle, their offensive line has been playing better. Then it's the bye week and then you go to Dallas. And then this one I'm really looking forward to for Hutchinson. Minnesota's offensive line, specifically their offensive tackles with O'Neill and Daresaw. That's going to be fun because there's no like big time mismatch for you on the left or the right side of the line, which Hutchinson will flip anyway so you get a lot of both. But week seven to me at Minnesota for how that offensive line is playing is going to be a really good test for where Hutchinson is at that point. I hope both offensive and defensive lines for those teams are healthy because that will be a fun one. Yeah, and you mentioned it with the Stents. It always makes me laugh at them. He has the the finger wiggle going on. Like he's just taking the smelling salt and he's just snarling. And I can't even imagine standing across from that, knowing, OK, I know I'm not a great player. I just got to press my technique. This guy is really good. And then you see him just like breathing heavily with the fingers wiggling and the most terrifying thing in the league. You could not pay me enough to stand in front of him. You truly couldn't. All right, so I want to get to I want to get to the New York Jets next because this is this is an area where all right, so they played the Tennessee Titans. You know, they played the San Francisco 49ers as well. So we're two games into this season, but you're down Jermaine Johnson now. There's some there's some lows with the Jets that I want to get into. But before we do that, best part about football season is checking out the post game stats, right? Which wide out scored more than two TDs, which quarterbacks through for less than 350 yards. 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I don't know what they are yet, but you should check it out, OK? Download the new DraftKings pick six app now. Use promo code PFF that's promo code PFF for new customers to play $5 on your first pick six set. And you get $50-- sorry, $50 in pick six credits instantly. Only on DraftKings pick six. The crown is yours. If you got a gambling problem, call 1-800-Gambler. Help us available for problems with gambling, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. In Connecticut, must be 18 plus age and eligibility restrictions vary by jurisdiction. Pick six not available everywhere, including in New York and Ontario. Boyd were prohibited. One per new customer, non-withdrawalable pick six credits expire in six months. Limited time offer C-terms at pick six.com-- or sorry, pick six.draftKings.com/promos. So the Jets, one-in-one tough game to open against the Niners, one of those stacked rashes in the NFL, but bounce back a little bit against Tennessee Titans. But it didn't always look easy. And Ollie, we went into this season saying like, yes, Jets still, best defensive line in the NFL or one of them. And I feel like it's been a little bit more of a struggle for that unit two weeks in. Now you lose Jermaine Johnson. You already didn't have a son Redick. And that was just trying to make up for not having Bryce Huff, who is now at the Philadelphia Eagles. Where are you right now with the New York Jets kind of in what you've seen a couple of weeks into this season? Yeah, I think it's concerning. And I think the staff is chasing their tails in what they want to be. They come into the season. The Jets have always been the Jets under Robert Sauer. They play a pretty straight 4-2-5. That's who we are. We line up that way no matter the down-and-distance, no matter the formation, that's who we want to be. He did the same thing in San Francisco to great success. That is just really, really difficult, as teams are piling more and more into how they run the ball, how they upload things in the run game. To think, yeah, and then the trade-off was always, well, we can at least get the phenomenal pass rush in. We're cool with people grating us with the run if we can get something out of the pass rush. Once that slips ever so slightly, you start to get into difficulty. And so from week one to week two, they actually switch their structure quite a decent amount by going to this 335 is how it's chartered at PFF. But when you watch the film, they're still in pretty much the same alignment. They are just standing someone up for the most part. They mess with what they're doing inside a little bit. So they were already saying, "We have a big problem fitting the run." It's such, such a taxing thing on their linebackers. Their interior didn't play very well in week one. So now let's try and change the structure slightly. And by doing that, they actually limited themselves with the pass rush, which is the reason they have this cavalcade of pass rush as they've drafted and brought in, is so that we can just run the hockey rotation over and over again. We all get off the ball as quick as possible. And we just swap them out, and eventually we get enough negative plays. We got a talented secondary. It will all work out in the wash, right? Once you start changing your structure in week two, to be like, "We have a real problem stopping the run here," and it limits what you can do rushing the passer, that to me is a staff who doesn't have complete confidence in those guys up front, doesn't have complete confidence that what they were running before will actually hold up with where the league is at right now. And when you go through the film and you go through the figures, I think that stacks up and there's merit to it. You know, I went back and I watched that Niners game. And they're so spread out. Like they're so spaced out to your point, not really being able to adjust or not wanting to adjust, whatever it is for the Jets. You got the Niners in heavy personnel, like the Niners would be in like 12 personnel. Sometimes it felt like 13 personnel, or you flip one of those tight ends for a full back. And it's just a powerful set. And it's not even that the Jets necessarily play those plays poorly. It's just a numbers game at that point. You've got two double teams that are fully successful. And yeah, okay, maybe a safety or a linebacker comes in and makes the play, but Jordan Mason was already five, six yards down the field at that point. So you go, okay, we got him. We fit the run, we got where we realistically, for how many players were tight on the line of scrimmage for the 49ers versus how spread out the New York Jets were. I actually think that that was a successful play for them. The problem is that successful play looked like them giving up five or six yards. And it just felt like that was chunk plays time after time after time after time in week one. And that worries me about this team because if they're gonna play that spread out, no matter what, then other teams are gonna recognize that too. And they're gonna get more heavy in their personnel. And like you said, when I was watching that Niners game back, it just felt like there was so much stress on the linebackers and they've got good linebackers. So you've got to be able to put your stars in position to be able to make plays. The problem is that again, I just think that it was so spread out for them. And I just looked it up while you were saying that 'cause I was very curious as you were saying it, what the Jets average depth of tackle was for run defense. It's actually dead middle of the league two weeks in. It's 4.21 as an average and that's 16th in the NFL. I would have thought that they would be much more down the list like the bottom half of the league. And so I also have those concerns for them and specifically how spread out there. I don't know if you noticed that as well. I don't know if that's something that's like, hey, I don't really mind if they're that spread out. They're just not winning up front the way that they need to. But to me, it almost looked like they were losing the play before the ball was even snapped because of where the defensive lineman were aligned. What did you think about this? - Yeah, I mean, this is who they've been since Salah's been there and last year they had some really wonky ones. They had a game where there was two extra linemen in the game. They still say, we're 4.25. We got a split from which is what Trevor's talking about where you have two interior guys outside the guard, outside the shoulders of the guards. You've got two wide M players. It's just a lot of space in the stress and the linebackers in that system fitting the room what they have to do to help them out in the pass rush, then dropping into coverage. There's a reason why the 9 has been able to run that defense no matter who's a coordinator and it is Fred Warner. It is not easy to find those guys. And their linebackers were unbelievable last year. But the reason the defense is so volatile year to year is that finding linebackers who can do that year over year without defensive attrition, without having to switch your style slightly, it's just so difficult. And those linebackers are really good. But if you're just in a numbers game or you have injuries, it's gonna be just a huge problem for them. And it's interesting 'cause the Niners in that Jets game, they're both playing the same front, right? They're both playing a bunch of 4.25 really spread out with the from. And the Niners were terrible last year at defending outside zone and more of the kind of like lead toss place. I think they were 26 in the league and you'd play something like that. They didn't make any changes. They were just like, we weren't good enough inside. Our best answer is to just get penetration inside. And those guys beat the Jets up in the interior in week one. The Jets struggled to do that. In week two, they try and change the front slightly. But the trade off again is just that it's gonna start limiting what they can do when it is a pass play and it's a pass for us. So I just don't know why a coach, you know, the tight is used an extra lime and six times in that game. And they're still playing pretty wide out for the most part. That just doesn't make logical sense to me. It's too much straight on the linebackers. And there's not the pass rushing upside to all the doing it. And if you go through their pass rushing figures, you know, they're okay-ish. Some of them are pretty good. But once you start looking at how they're getting to the quarterback, that is an underlying concern of the profile of who got them. Jeraine Johnson, now injured, how quick they're coming. So they're not getting off the ball with real oomph. Once you start going through it, I think they're 23rd, 24th in a league in quick pressures, which is, that's a pass rush pressure. Most of it is everyone's covered. Really good stuff on the back end. Line backers are excellent. The pass rush eventually gets home, you get a pressure. So if you're not getting that kind of drive off the ball, and it's what happens when you go through these hockey rotations, you're going to get a year where there's a big drop-off between the first group and the second group, and you just tire out the first group, or do you hope the second group gets better? I think it's a real concern. Now, they might get right against the Patriots. You know, that's an offensive line. They might go out there and beat them up. But in terms of the over the course of the season, they now seem to be in a bind between philosophically who you want to be, then one of the correct, like coaching answers to the problems we're facing, and how do we actually get those two to a line? So is this-- and when I was watching it in all the spacing, too, just another stress on the linebackers, especially in that 49ers game, it was far too easy for the offensive lineman to execute a double team and then climb to the second level. Like, they were getting free offensive linemen to the second level way too easily. And so even if a linebacker was there to really fit the way that they needed to, it's not like he was totally coming in as a free rusher. So, you know, to sort of like wrap this up with the Jets, because-- and it's also interesting, the 49ers and Jets parallels. If there's an area where the 49ers defensive line has struggled, it is in run defense. And it's that same-- you mentioned, like, it's that same philosophy. That's where Sal is coming from. I know he's been with the Jets for a while now, but they've kept a lot of those same principles the whole time since his departure. And you look at the Niners, they're great at getting after the quarterback when it comes to pass rushing. But defending the run, it's not like they're super stout against defending the run. And maybe it is just-- it's sort of just a give and take. Like, you got to choose a little bit more of one than the other. Is that sort of where we're just at with the Jets? And they've chosen to be more of a pass rushing team. Now they don't necessarily have the horses or the depth. Or is there something that they can and maybe should do here to adjust? Like, should they be condensing their sets a little bit more? Or is this just something-- are they not really built for that? Well, the problem is that because of the way they've built the team, when they went to say we are going to reduce the front side against the Titans, the guys couldn't get off the ball. They're not used to saying, like, I'm going to drop my ass in the A gap, just sit here and ride it out. Like, those guys are used to flying up the field. So they were getting rope braided off the ball. And then when it was a pass rush rep, they're stuck between two bodies being like, usually, I have so much space. Usually, it's me one of one with a guy in space. What's happening? Why is everyone here? So that is the real difficulty. Yeah, it is a trade off back and forth. But as we mentioned at the top, just with where the league's at now, that style was awesome when everyone is throwing the ball all the time on first down, when it's a heavy play action league. And it still is a heavy play action league. It's still a throw the ball league. It's still a run to win rather than run to set the game up league. But teams are getting heavier. Every single team is trying to find a way to get to what would be vintage two-back football without having to put a second back on the field. Whether it's a Titan, a receiver, bringing an extra lineman. That's where teams want to be, so then they can hit you with a play action shot. So just the logistics of saying, well, we are going to make the field as wide as possible against six, seven blockers. We'll have two guys off the ball. We'll just trust those two guys to go find the ball for everything and figure out for us that that is all well and good when you have special players who can make special plays over and over again. And even the nineers who fit the outside zone, the toss off really well in week one, once you dig through it, the interior guys played really well. But all the plays on the ball are their special dudes. Every time I looked up, it's Warner and Bosa high-fiving being like, we got them. So they just got great players, right? So as good as it was stylistically inside, those guys did a great job. They helped them out. Still, where the ball ends up is with their two best players. So you just have to have great, great guys. I don't think William just started the season very well. McDonald's is in a run-fitting guy. Johnson wasn't a run-fitting guy, but gave you the pass rush upside, right? So the staff, I think, is really, really caught. Now, a difficult trade-off bind of how do we build our structure to be able to try and slow the run a little bit? What are we giving up with the pass rush? And we built this roster to be a pass-brushing team that just flies off the ball. And the big, big winner is his son, Radik, who must just be cackling at home every single down being like, I can't wait for them to wind me somebody. Yeah, that is obviously what you mean going down, which sucks. And even more so than just, hey, we need another startable body in here on the defensive line. This conversation here and sort of what you have been talking about only increases his value more when you think about exactly how the Jets need to win on the defensive line. And it is with a guy like a son, Radik. So it'll be very interesting to see what happens with the Radik situation. It feels like the Jets have their heels dug in. And at this point, they don't want to budge because they don't want to budge on it. But man, it feels like they need him more than ever if they want to keep running their defensive line the way that they want to, or you adjust. So it's really, really simple for me, Trev, to you. If we're running 25 pass rush reps, again, rolling through different guys, is Will Mcdonald, Michael Clemens, Tat McKeanley, and Braden McGregor, a championship pass rush? A lot of potential in the group, I like the nay, the potential, but is that getting the Jets where they want to get to this year? I don't know, like, Tat McKeanley's been around the NFL for a while. I like what he could be, but he's the depth guy. Braden McGregor, kind of the same thing, former 4/5 star out of Michigan. He got hurt during his early time, so he's still kind of figuring things out last year was a good year for him. But now it's his first year in the NFL, Will Mcdonald wasn't exactly used the right way when he was in the list last year at Iowa, then he comes into the NFL. You think he's going to be in more of a pin years back in a pass rush role, but he hasn't gotten on the field the way that you have wanted to. And so, and then, obviously, you know, Clemens is a veteran, but you would probably rather have a stud pass rush or in that spot. So that group, I like the names, but I'm waiting for, like, a guy whose pass rush win percentage is as impactful as Hassan Redix or Bryce Huffs that it was the year before. So in that list of names, I like all those names, I'm waiting for the top name, like, I'm waiting for you to say the top name in that group, which could have made all the difference. And it's still all those guys and what the Jets have done really well, like Nanners have done really well. I'm sure you've talked about it plenty times. They just find dudes. Every single year, you go, wow, this guy has 10 pressures. I didn't even know he was on a team this year, and he's just suddenly flying up the field and in that field, right? That is still in that structure we're talking about of a really wide front, just get up field and if we can find the dathletes, we got great coaches, we think we can figure it out. If you're now going to say we are more of a what would be traditional three-four style defense. We've got three backers on the field because we want to ride out the interior and let our linebackers play sift and find football because we're getting snotted by the run game. Now those guys are playing tight to the line, have to hold on to things more. Those guys aren't those guys. They've built that group to fly up the field. All of a sudden Hassan Redix comes in, will McDonald comes in and you're saying to them, can you just hold things and ride it out? That group just doesn't have those skills to me. McDonald is a bit peculiar because of how he played at Iowa State, compared to what we expect him to be in the league, right? So maybe there could be some development there, but it just feels like they committed so heavily to this style and then to try to adjust it in week two and to see something to track moving forward is concerning. Yeah, we'll see what the jets are able to do, you know, getting over obviously injuries, but also sort of lack of success and exactly how they thought that they were going to win along the defensive line, going into this year. Next guy that I want to talk about, we got to talk about von Miller a little bit, right? I mean, his resurgence is the von Miller Vold back. Are we seeing prime von Miller? We'll get into that in a second, but when you're hiring for a small business, you want to find quality professionals that are right for that role. That's why you have to check out LinkedIn jobs. LinkedIn jobs has the tools to help you find those right professionals for your team faster and for free. We've done a ton of hiring here at PFF and I cannot tell you how great it is when we find not just a person to fill a role, but the right person to fill the role. That is what LinkedIn jobs is all about. They help you find the right people. A lot of people are qualified to be able to do jobs, but your team, your company, it's very unique. You've got to get the right people in and LinkedIn jobs can help. LinkedIn is not just a job board. They help you hire professionals that you cannot find anywhere else, even those who aren't actively searching for a new job, but might be open to the perfect role, which is sometimes the best fits that you can find. In a given month, over 70% of LinkedIn users don't visit other leading job sites. If you are not looking on LinkedIn, you're looking in the wrong place. On LinkedIn, 86% of small businesses get qualified for a candidate within 24 hours. If you hire professionals like a professional on LinkedIn, post your job for free at LinkedIn.com/PFF. That is LinkedIn.com/PFF to post your job for free terms and conditions apply. All right, Ollie, is Von Miller back? He's the man in the prime of his career. We have a resurgence here at 35 years old. This past week against the Miami Dolphins, 88.0 pass rush grade highest, his highest single season pass, sorry, single game pass rushing performance since the 2021 playoff run that he had with the Los Angeles Rams, his past week, he has sacked four pressures, 22.7% pass rush win percentage. What did you think of Von Miller? Where are we here? Is it kind of just like, you know, is it something where maybe it's, you didn't see this over the last couple of years, you can see it a little bit more moving forward, or was it just kind of like, hey, this is a great performance by one of the greatest aging pass rush we've seen over the last decade. Let's give him a golf clap, but let's not expect this too much moving forward. Where were you? Von Miller. When I took the tape on, I was like, he looked so quick. I couldn't believe the verse off the ball. I was a genuinely flabbergasted. I was like, okay, we're going to get, like you said, the great, great thing about Von Miller always for me was he somehow had this kind of like, is it ducks below the water that people say? Well, like his legs were always so quick. He was so explosive, but his hands were so patient and he just waited until the last second. It's almost like he knew what was coming. He would just flip it away and he had every single thing in his bag. And if, you know, you could kind of get parallel with him, he'd just drive through your chest and plant you into the quarterback, like that was always the beauty of his game. So I always felt as he ages, well, the patience will stay. The old man game will be there if he loses kind of the rock shock, scare tactics off the ball, will it limit him some, but he can at least be productive? I couldn't believe how good he looked off the ball off the injuries in the age and they're not playing. Right. I was just floored by that. He, you know, it was all when I was watching him against Miami, Austin Jackson had a bad game. And we'll see sort of like what caliber Austin Jackson is when we get a little bit more of a sample size, because it was funny. We do our review shows every Monday, Dalton and I do. And my most impressive, I believe, or at least I gave him a shout out for the Miami Dolphins in week one was Austin Jackson, because he played really well. He had a really good performance in week one, week two, he was my most disappointing because he had a terrible performance and he gave up, I think seven pressures, four of them were to von Miller. And I, I just wonder, do they need to just save von Miller for like once a month? Like pick one game a month, right? He doesn't play the other three weeks, just save the juice for like the biggest games that they have. And if you can, honestly, it, it's crazy to say this out loud because, you know, it's, it's a 17 game schedule and you need every single game and you need every single win and it's sort of all hands on deck. But genuinely, if you tell me, I get that version of von Miller and I play him once a month, as opposed to getting a more watered down version of what he is now at 35 years old. I'm going to take the once a month strategy. I really am because it looked that good. I think it's a unbelievably rational thought from you. If I was Sean McDermott in Miami on Thursday, as soon as he walked off the field and shaking his time, I said, we'll see you in November. Thank you very much. This is awesome. See you in a few months time. We don't need you right now. You're too good. The thing with him this year, you go through the pressures. This is the list of the down and distance von Miller's pressures this season. Third and thirteen, third and six, third and ten, fourth and seven, third and four, fourth and four, fourth and eight, third and four. The big, most impactful, got to have him down. That is where he's making a difference. So you can do that, which they have done, which is kind of like a hold him to the sideline. Just bring him in for the for the big reps, I'll be totally up for even slimming that down a bit more. So you make sure that he's there for you for a playoff run. If it's a win the division or to go on through the playoffs, like he is still making a big impact on the most impactful downs, and they got to try and preserve that in whatever way possible. I got to give credit to Sean McDermott too. You know, he talked about the lines and how they've kind of set things up to maximize Aidan Hutchinson. One of my favorite storylines of the last few years is how Sean McDermott out of nowhere, a kind of like grumpy, raw, raw type, defensive, hard-headed coach, right? I don't know what he did. He went to some hippie convien, him and Rogers went to Egypt, do Ayahuasca, he has come out now as this like young hotshot guru, hot smoking, creative force, and they are doing all kinds of cool things to make sure everything is just, if Von's in the game, it's one on one every single time. I don't care what the rest of the front looks like, Von's in there to do what he just did and those down and just this third down fourth down, all that matters to us is him being one on one with a link to the quarterback. And he's delivering. It's, it's really impressive. And I think, you know, how they are marrying what they want to do in coverage, being primarily a too high type of team, and then having a pass rush or like Von Miller is huge. You know, I know Greg Rousseau is playing really well and I don't want it to act like, like, oh, they don't have anything outside of Von Miller, Rousseau has been awesome. I don't want to, I don't want to say that he hasn't. But for the Von Miller conversation, you know, for example, Tyree Kill has basically destroyed every team that he goes up against over the last, I don't know, four or five years. The Buffalo Bill specifically, Tyree Kill's career average of receiving yards per game is over 80. It's just over 80. It's like 81.3 or something against the Buffalo Bill specifically, even going back to his time in Kansas City, Tyree Kill averages less than 50 yards a game. It's 48.8. He's only scored two touchdowns against the bills in his entire career when he has faced the bills and he's faced him plenty of times from Kansas City and then obviously a division rival with the Miami Dolphins. They know how to play Tyree Kill in the explosiveness of the Miami Dolphins better than anybody else. And I think it is how they play on the back end and that coverage that's sort of all across the league right now, giving quarterbacks fits, it's limiting those explosive plays, it's making them take things underneath. And if you have these quarterbacks, especially in these situations that are going to have to go up against good deep coverage shells and then you pair it with a quarterback who can get after, or you pair it with a pass pressure, you can get after the quarterback the way that Von Miller did against the Dolphins. Now you're talking about a setup that is built for success in the current version of where the NFL is right now. So whatever they did with Von Miller, I'm not expecting it for a full season like we used to be able to when he was with the Broncos and all that, but it looked damn good. And I think that they've got something here with him. If they can keep him on whatever you want to call it, a pitch count or something just to say, "Hey, we want you in the most valuable moments of the game to do what you do as a future Hall of Famer." And certainly that was a game plan that worked a perfection this past week. Yeah, and you touched them with the coverage stuff. This is the other thing with McDermott and his development. They have become one of the most disguised, heavy, creative rotation teams in the league. He never ever did that. He never did that early in Buffalo. He like woke up after he filed Leslie Fraser was like, "I am going to get cool. I am a cool kid now. I'll put the cap on. I get the skateboard. I'll see what the kids are doing. They run more than anyone. You mentioned two deep shells and they do run a ton of two deep shells. But it's open, open rotations. We start with two guys deep in the defensive backfield, then we rotate, but we still end up with two guys deep in the defensive backfield. He has become a real master, changing the picture on the back end for QBs while keeping things, you know, keeping it laid on things down the field. And as you just think about it, as you listen, it's like, "Well, if people are moving at the back and then he's mugging and moving things up front, there's so many moving pieces." The default is like, "I'm just going to dump this thing off, get on with the game." And then if you add on, Vons in the backfield in 2.6 seconds, it's like the only option is to dump the thing down and try and get on with the game. Now we're in third and four, now we're in third and six, now we're in third and 13, and that's when Vons screaming home, gets the pressure, and we get off the field. It's just working really, really well for them right now. Hey, you know, we've all been there. You go through a breakup, somebody leaves your life, you've got to reinvent yourself. You know, it's an opportunity to be able to do that. Ollie obviously does such a great job covering the NFL in a great detail of the way. You'll follow all of his great work at the Reed Optional Substack. Ollie, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but you got anything, you know, down the pipe here this week or upcoming that you're really looking forward to putting out. I mean, it's just such fantastic stuff over there, man. Yeah, John and I'll have the Reed Optional Podcast this week. We are going at the moment, Trev, it is almost nauseating for us to do as much as it must be for people to listen. We're cranking out like four or five hours of these deep dive shows on like three foot, which is always really an element. I'm going to talk about Bo-Nix this afternoon. And that could be like a Dan Karl in hardcore history nine-hour show just discussing Bo-Nix and Sean Payton. So I'm looking forward to that one. That's a potential thesis paper, like a final exam for a doctoral degree. It truly, it truly could be. So I got to catch that out. You guys should too, going over to the Reed Optional Substack and listening to their podcast as well. Appreciate everybody watching and listening to this episode of In The Trenches. Myself and Ollie will be with you guys, same time next week for more, see you then. Bye. (crowd cheering) [BLANK_AUDIO]