(upbeat music) - Welcome one and all to The Downloadment Show. This is Live at Five where you, the subscriber, the viewer, you get to weigh in because we're live and we're gonna go to the chat and talk to some folks. So how about this quote for you? Comrade Kamala Harris motivated the man that attempted to assassinate the former president Donald Trump over the weekend. That deranged accusation was posted just a few hours ago by the former president. We're gonna get into all that. Meanwhile, the Republican Party continues to push their racist conspiracy theory that Haitians are kidnapping cats and dogs and geese and duck and in Springfield, Ohio. Despite the fact that dozens of bomb threats have effectively put out on the lockdown, they're still, and buildings are on lockdown. The city has basically shut down. They're still saying that there's a, all of this is going on with no evidence. Even the governor, Republican governor, Mike DeWine, saying not happening, the mayor, the town manager, nothing. Okay, so let's discuss all of this. Brilliant guys, brilliant guess here. Rick Wilson is always good to see the renowned political strategy, 30 year veteran of the Republican politics and the co-founder of The Lincoln Project and Whitney Tilson is a longtime Democratic party donor and philanthropist. He is on the advisory board of Pershing Square and is the editor of Stansbury Research. Is it okay to say where you are, Whitney? - I would rather you not say the city for security reasons, but I'm in Ukraine. - You're in Ukraine, okay, good. Because there's a Ukrainian, are Ukraine connection to the shooter, we'll discuss that. Okay, gentlemen, thank you so much. How are you both doing? - Good, John, how are you? Great to be with you. - I'm doing okay, but there's, I mean, there's so much craziness going on. We're gonna talk about the Trump assassination attempt. I mean, he didn't get a shot off, but who knows where it would have gone to if the Secret Service did not do their job. I think the story is the Secret Service did their job and then we should continue on discussing what the former president and his running mate are doing because I think it's dangerous for the country. These things happen, it's awful that this happened with Donald Trump, it's awful that the threat levels are so high with both candidates and that our presidents and our former presidents get assassination attempts, that is awful. However, the Secret Service did their jobs, which is what they're supposed to do. We're gonna talk about Trump's racist, Haitian conspiracy theory and JD Vance basically saying that he made it up and how Harris wins, how Harris wins. And then also as we're talking about this racist conspiracy theory, you guys at home, wait till you hear this sound bite. They said the quiet part out loud. Inward, hard R, that's all I gotta say. We're gonna play it for you here on the Don Lemon Show. Okay, so you guys know what happened over the weekend. A guy down at Trump's golf course in Florida, West Palm Beach, Trump is out golfing. Secret Service, they see a gun, the barrel of something in AKA 47 type gun or AK style gun, I should say. Sticking through the shrubbery, in the course, about 400 yards away, Trump luckily was a couple of holes back, they chase the guy, he gets away, someone gets a picture of his license plate, they track him down, the person they track down is detained, his name is Ryan Wesley Ruth. And according to three law enforcement sources, Ruth who owns a small construction company in Hawaii, voted according to Ruth himself on social media, Rick, correct me if I'm wrong, he voted for Donald Trump and he criticized him on social media saying that he was wrong, he was the wrong person, he did not learn from his lessons. And then it turns out he's a staunch supporter of Ukraine, which we wanna talk to Whitney about. He's also a proponent of Nikki Haley and Vivek, Rama Swami, right, and the GOP primary. So what do you think? First to you, Mr. Rick Wilson. - You know, Don, look, this guy is, there's a similarity to this guy and the Pennsylvania shooter. And that is, these are both people who are pretty obviously lost, broken people. And it's tempting for the Trump people to try to ascribe a political motivation to these guys. But I think it's a mental health issue, more than a political issue in a lot of ways. And you're right, we are very fortunate the Secret Service did their job. Trump was never in any danger, just a tiny correction. That SKS rifle, it's even older than the modern AK-47s. It's a post-World War II gun. It's not super accurate. We're very fortunate the guy didn't go, the guy wasn't even in range of Trump. We're very fortunate they found him though beforehand. And look, it is one of these questions I think we have to ask ourselves. You know, look at his social media history. He's praising Nikki Haley. Stay on the fight, you have to beat Trump. He's praising Vivek Rama Swami. You know, this guy does not profile as the liberal Democrat who wants to usher in Marxism or whatever craziness they're saying today. But Trump has also shown how quick he is to exploit these things, Don. - Yeah, but that's my point. I know you said it's not political. Obviously he's a deranged person, anyone who would do something like that. But they want to paint him out as this sort of big, liberal, pussy hat wearing, whatever it is, not. And the last guy was the same way the last guy I think was had a connection to MAGA, right? - Yeah, so, and I've been hearing people saying why are Donald Trump's own people wanting to harm him? That's a good question. - It really is. - It really is. - What did you think when you heard Whitney about this and hearing his connection saying that he was a staunch supporter of Ukraine, he went over by himself and, you know, I'm not sure if that is he's upset because, you know, they're talking, you know, what about Ukraine, Republicans are, Donald Trump, MAGA, what did you think when you heard this news? - Yeah, well, unfortunately, this war has drawn its share of crazies from around the world. The Ukrainians tell me, they're called legionnaires, anyone who comes from another country who wants to fight for Ukraine. And I met one today, a British guy who's training soldiers and is adding incredible value. And so many of these legionnaires have really helped Ukraine tremendously. But the Ukrainians tell me about half of them have sort of mental issues. And we just send them home right away. And they, in fact, identified this guy as one such person. So he has absolutely no connection to Ukraine, never served, never fought here. And so the Ukrainians had a pretty good judgment about this guy. - This is how a thoughtful president responds, Joe Biden, earlier. - Joe Biden speaking right now, let's listen. Subject is, and is the subject in custody. And acting head of the Secret Service in Florida today, assessing what happened in determining whether any further adjustments need to be made to ensure the safety of our former president. Let me just say, there is no, and I mean this in the bottom, those of you who know me, many of you do. No place in a political violence for a political violence in America, none, zero, never. I've always condemned political violence, always will in America. In America, we resolve our difference peacefully. The battle box, not at the end of a gun. America suffered too many times the tragedy of an assassin's bullet. It solves nothing and just tears the country apart. Most do everything we can to prevent it and never give it any oxygen. - So that is the current president now responding. Now, in contrast, okay, and we're gonna put this up. This is Donald Trump responding, okay, on his social media site. And I quote, "The rhetoric lies as exemplified by the false statements made by comrade Kamala Harris during the rigged and highly partisan ABC debate and all of the ridiculous lawsuits specifically designed to inflict damage on Joe's then Kamala's political opponent. Me has taken politics in our country to a whole new level of hatred, abuse, and distrust. Because of the communist left rhetoric, the bullets are flying and it will only get worse exclamation point. Allowing millions of people from places unknown to invade and take over our country is an unpardonable sin. Our borders must be closed. This is all caps. Our borders must be closed. And the terrorists, criminals, and mentally insane immediately removed from the American cities and towns deported back to their countries of origin. We want people to come into our country, but they must love our nation and come in legally and through a system of merit. The world is laughing at us as fools. They are stealing our jobs and our wealth. We cannot let them laugh any longer. Make America great again. Okay, that last part that I read, all caps. Now, was this guy an immigrant? Who, no, American citizen. So, okay, then what's going on here, Rick Wilson? - Donald Trump is, we call it playing the one note flute. That's the only note his instrument plays is immigration lately. It's always that. You can ask him what color the sky is. He's gonna say it may be blue, but the immigrants are spoiling it. He's always got a way to loop back to immigration. Because what Trump is doing in this campaign, he's feeling more and more closed in by Vice President Harris. He's looking to turn up his base. His base does respond to immigration. If you're an immigration voter, you're already with Trump. Now he's trying to ratchet up their voter intensity to make sure they turn out. Because the turnout numbers for Trump are starting to slowly trend downward. So, he's gonna make sure those people that are motivated by this issue show up on election day. - Whitney, does this help or hurt him bringing up this racist conspiracy theory? - I wish I could tell you with 100% certainty that, of course, any sane person looks at this racist screed and is disgusted by it. And he loses the key independent voters and all. I wanna believe that. I think that is likely. I cannot tell you that that is true with 100% certainty. There's still, immigration is obviously, I don't, it's totally politically rational for him to go after Harris on the immigration issue, for sure. That is an area she is vulnerable. But to go this far is, I think, disgusting and un-American. And I think most Americans would feel that way. I just worry that we saw what happened in 2016. Basically, he turned out his base, which a little bit more than Democrats did on election day. And so the polls were off because of that. And that carried him to a very narrow victory. So yeah, I'm worried we need to fight this for the next 50 days, for sure. - I think what he's doing is disgusting. - Yes. - And I think what he's doing, and I think what J.D. Vance doing, I think it's disgusting and I think it's disqualifying. And I think it's, I don't think it's racist. I know it's racist. J.D. Vance, which I'll play later, was on this weekend with Dan Abash, my friend, former colleague, saying, "Oh, we're not saying anything. "We're not demonizing the immigrants." I'm paraphrasing here. We're just talking about Kamala Harris and how she's letting immigrants in, and it's bad for the country. And now yet they're saying, drop myself on, sorry. They're not demonizing the immigrants, but he says, "Our borders must be closed." And the terrorists, criminals, and the mentally insane immediately removed from the American cities and towns and deported back to their countries of origin. So how is that not demonizing the immigrants? This is a Trump surrogate on Democratic rhetoric. Watch this. - Just the rhetoric and, you know, people are at each other's throats. Do you see that as a contributing factor in Butler, which you've already looked at? - Absolutely. The rhetoric is every day, all day. And as it's directed against President Trump, it's saying that he's a threat to democracy, that he's gonna destroy America. It's absolutely absurd, and it is irresponsible. And Democrats, and people who are speaking in these terms about President Trump, need to take responsibility and really think about the consequence of using that kind of language. Because here we are again, and so in the days immediately after Butler, we heard people accept that that needed to stop, but it didn't last, and that today is a day that that needs to be taken seriously. - It lasted about a day and a half. Congressman, thank you very much for joining us today. - Oh my God, okay guys. Can I just remind you, do I need to remind you, Rick Wilson, maybe I need to remind the audience of when they're talking about language and taking down the temperature and all, look, I'm only doing this because they're going there, right? So if they're gonna go there, let's go there. Here it is, this is the former president. Remember what the woman just said before? - Don't cook a joke. - Corrupt Attorney General of New York. - Deranged Jack Smith. - Bird brain, I mean, Nicky becomes president. - Now if I don't get elected, it's gonna be a bloodbath. I don't think you're gonna have another election in this country, if we don't win this election, they're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists, and some, I assume, are good people. - They're poisoning the blood of our country. - They're destroying the blood of our country. That's what they're doing. They're destroying our country. They don't like it when I said that. And I never read "Mind Compf." They said, "Oh, Hitler said that" in a much different way. - They're not humans, they're not humans, they're animals. - On day one, we determine that every open borders policy of the Biden administration and begin the largest domestic deportation operation in American history, starting with all of the criminals that are pouring in. - The communist, Marxist, fascist, and the radical lift-ups that live like vermin. - If you don't use certain rhetoric, if you don't use certain words that maybe are not very nice words, nothing will happen. - Okay. I think that obviously he never met a tragedy, right, that he didn't want to exploit, obviously. But do Republicans, do MAGA folks really believe the words that are coming out of their mouth when they're saying that this is because of rhetoric from Barack Obama, from Joe Biden, from Kamala Harris? Are they serious? Rick Wilson, are you kidding me? - These guys are the worst examples of projection that you've ever seen in your lifetime. They are absolutely trying to give their people permission to act in ways that are dangerous, to act in ways that overturn our democracy, to act in ways like they acted on January 6th, to act in ways like they acted in Charlottesville, to act in ways that are going to attempt to intervene in the election this year. I mean, guys, I look at these bomb threats in Springfield as a trial run. I promise you, they're going to go out on election day and call them bomb threats in blue areas. This is a trial run. These people, the projection is epic, Don. It is dangerous. And for all of this that they're putting out there, they are the purveyors of the actual violent rhetoric, the eliminationist rhetoric, the blood and soil rhetoric. All of it comes down to, I think, a real difficulty in a lot of the mainstream media coverage of this guy is that they take these short moments where he says something funny or weird or kooky or demented and they think that's the center of it. But there's a through line with Trump over the years of violence, of hatred, of profoundly othering people, trying to terrify people about immigrants and about LGBTQ folks and about anyone who's different. And that rhetoric has infused and infected MAGA very deeply. I don't buy their projection for a second. - Whitney, as a Democratic donor and activist, and I'm sure an analyst, someone can analyze politics, what it seems to me like, this is a concerted effort for the Trump campaign and the right-wing media to try to use intimidation tactics on the Harris campaign to dial back their rhetoric, which is telling the truth about how he called journalists and others, enemies of the people, et cetera, et cetera, and trying to get them to stop telling the truth about Trump. Perhaps if he didn't want people to call him a threat to democracy, he would not have pushed to overturn an election and incite an insurrection. - Yeah, I mean, he's working the reps, right? - All the time. - And I'm glad it's sort of finally getting called out. I love the phrase, "saying washing." Where the media, he's so insane. The media doesn't know what to make of it, so they pull out a few couple of sane sentences amidst this word salad. And so if you read in the newspapers, Trump calls for, I mean, in that example, we were just talking about about all the vermin and the horrible language of that immigration, the headline in the media is Trump calls for tighter immigration standards or something that sounds sane, and it's not. So I call out the media on this, and it's important because the four to 5% of the voters, me, at most 10% who are gonna decide this election, are generally tend to be the less engaged voters who are only reading the headlines, right? So, you know, I think we can't let the media repeat the same state they did back in 2016. - Okay, I wanna play, let me, this is, we know this is completely made up, right? We know it's completely made up because there's, why would the Republican governor lie, right? Why would the-- - David Vance even admitted that they're making it up, and he says, "Hey, look, if we have to make something up "in order to draw attention to a real issue, "then we'll do it." He admitted the game. - Well, he blows it away. Thank you for setting up my next soundbite. This is David Vance on with Danabash admitting that he made up this conspiracy theory. Here it is, honey. - Can media totally ignore this stuff until Donald Trump and I start talking about cat memes? If I have to, if I have to create stories so that the American media actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people, then that's what I'm gonna do, Danab. - You just said that you're creating a story. - Public policy. (laughing) - Oops. - Sorry, you just said that you're creating the story. - What's that, Dana? (laughing) - You just said that this is a story that you created. - Yes. - So, the eating dog, everything, it's not-- - We are creating, we are, Dana, it comes from firsthand accounts from my constituents. I say that we're creating a story, meaning we're creating the American media focusing on it. (laughing) (laughing) - I mean, look, it's not funny because people can get hurt, right? - Yeah, right. - But, I mean, is there any other way to read that? 'Cause I've heard conservative apparatus on earlier saying, well, he was just trying to explain that he had to create an environment in the media. I mean, doing, go ahead, Rick, sorry. - Look, you could see Jenny Vance had two real tells in that. First, he was doing the fake IFB is out again. - Yeah, my earpiece isn't working, right? - What? I can't tell you. And then the long gap where he realized he'd gotten caught, he'd stepped in it again. He knew he had screwed up. And so, the admission of this is, you know, is breaking the fourth wall with MAGA. They all know it's a lie, they all know it's BS. They're trolling the rest of America, trying to make America outraged about it, and they know it's fake. And he knows it's fake. And when he admitted it, it sort of blew the story. It sort of made the story go sideways. And I'm sure Trump's furious because he liked it. He liked the idea that he was in this like social moment, this media moment in the country. He loved that idea. And now, JD sort of blew it. But the fact that they're willing to lie and put the lives of Haitians legal immigrants from Haiti, by the way, once again, 'cause they, he categorizes them all in one brush. Legal immigrants from Haiti who are welcoming the community, who are valued parts of the community, are now suffering bomb threats and death threats at scale because of JD Vance thinking he's clever by lying to the media. And it is really, these guys don't understand consequence, the consequences of what they do and the harm that they do. - So listen, and if we can put up producers, I'll put up a poll and see if people will believe it, if we, if you guys can do that. Did JD Vance tell on him, did JD Vance admit that he made this shit up? You can word it however you want. Did he tell him himself in that interview? That's what I wanna know. Did he tell on himself? And by the way, we don't have to play the sound, but I'm sure you guys have seen the Republican governor, Mike DeWine, saying, listen, we have an issue here because there was an influx of immigrants, but that's something that we can deal with if we talk about it, right? It has been a strain, yes. In some ways, yes. But these folks are doing jobs and are taking jobs that companies are happy that they're here, they're not illegal, they're legal, and they're actually contributing to the economy and to the community. And so that's what he's saying. Now, that's what the governor, if you guys, you guys believe me, right? Do I need to play the soundbite of you guys? - No, we all saw it, I think. - You got, okay. But this is a soundbite that I want you to play guys. I think we have two. So actually, let's play the 30% one where they slow down the 30% one, okay? This is Rich Lowry, and I said, I was never gonna try to play a Meghan Kelly soundbite on my show because she's so thirsty for attention that that's what she wants, controversy, whatever. That's her bread and butter. But I've got to play this. Rich Lowry speaking to, by the way, remember, they're saying it's racist, right? The folks in the town are saying it's racist. The Harris folks are saying it's racist. Democrats are saying it's racist. Non-Maga people are saying it's racist. Dady Vance is not saying it's racist. He doesn't believe it. Donald Trump obviously doesn't believe it's racist. So speaking of the, remember, the racism part, keep that in your head. And I want everyone to listen closely. Turn up the volume. Rich Lowry talking about the migrant situation in Ohio and Springfield on the Meghan Kelly show. Here it is. - Remember alternative facts with Kelly and they did the same thing. She wasn't saying you make up fictions and pretend they're facts. You bring other facts to bear on the debate that are being ignored. And that's what he was saying. And I love, I think it was in that interview where Dana Bash says, the police have gone through 11 months of recordings of calls and they've only found two Springfield residents calling to complain about Haitian Negro migrants. ♪ To Springfield residents calling ♪ ♪ To complain about Haitian Negro migrants ♪ To Springfield residents calling to complain about Haitian Negro migrants ♪ ♪ To Springfield residents calling ♪ - You guys got it. Okay, thank you. - You know, Dana, as we were talking about earlier, I may be deaf from flying high performance airplanes and shooting shotguns my whole life, but my God. It sure sounded like an end to me. - What? It sure sounded like it. (laughing) Whitney, is there any, come on, Whitney. - No, we all heard what we heard. I guess the only surprise is it wasn't hard on the back, making masks. - Hard car, sorry Whitney. Hard R, I'm sorry, and look, Rich Lowry, maybe 10 years ago, I would have given him some grace on this, but he's become just another Trumper. And you know, Trump brings out the worst in everybody. - Is that what he's hearing from people? Like, we gotta get these Haitian inwards out of there. These, or we gotta pump up this Haitian inwards stuff. And we gotta, you know, 'cause we can, they're Haitian, and we can demonize black people and immigrants all in the same thing. And you know, it's the Haitian inwards. - As a friend from South Florida, a Haitian friend from South Florida pointed out to me today, she said, "We are black and we are the darkest "of the people in this country "who come from the Caribbean and Africa almost by far." And she's like, "That's why." She goes, "It's not just the word Haiti. "It's the visual of us." And I was like, "I get why that. "I get why Trump's weird, like, "feral racist psychology would pick that. "Why they would say, "Oh, those Haitians." Because, you know, he initially tried it with Venezuelans, but then they went to jump to Haitians. So, I don't know, I mean, look, Rich is in a world of hurt right now. I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to hear that tape playing another thousand or so times, but it's going to get played a thousand more times. - Let me just say that. Rick, as you know, and I'm sure Whitney, you know as well, when you're on TV, right, especially, sometimes things come out of your mouth and you're like, "What the hell did I say?" - Oh, what time? - And you can't, you know, but it would never cross my mind to say, I know it's not the same thing people when I say this, but, you know, we got to get those Irish honky on. Like, that would never, it's not in my vernacular. So, somewhere, he's heard it, he said it, it's a hard R. I mean, Whitney, would that ever, be honest with me, would that ever, would that ever come out of your mouth? - No, no, look, I will say we all do a lot of live television, and, you know, there's a little side of me that's like, wow, you know, you got to be really careful when you're doing something live national, whatever, right? So, no, I don't worry about that particular mistake, but, you know, having done, you know, probably well over a thousand live television hits over 20 years, I've stuck my foot in my mouth a couple times. So, let me correct that, on my record, I've said some truly dumb shit on television, okay? I've said some truly dumb shit on television. - I wouldn't know about that. - Yeah, I wouldn't know, you and me die, we're good, man. (laughing) But the idea, the idea that anyone on a show would not constrain themselves, I mean, it's just like, it's a killer, it's a career killer, it's a moral vacuum. If it's even up in your head, like in that categorization, you know, rethink what you're doing. Stop and reboot. - But look, let's be clear. I mean, he had a tiny little flub there for about a half a second, Donald Trump. What Donald Trump just posted, the campaign, he and J.D. Vance have been waging just for the past couple of weeks, but literally you go back Donald Trump's entire life, like he was pursued by the Justice Department for not renting to black families in the apartment buildings he controlled, like back in the early '70s, like this guy, what they're doing is a hundred times worse than that flub up, like, that's a verbal flub versus a lifetime of racist actions and inciting racial anger and hatred and divisiveness in this country. I mean, that's his whole shtick. Like, that's why I think he's an existential threat to this country. - I mean, he ran with the Central Park Five theme in the debate, which truly blew my damn mind because they've been exonerated. He's been proven to be a fool on it and he just introduced an entire new generation of MAGA jerks to the idea that these five men, or these five men were rapists and brutally attacked women when he knows it is false. - Yeah, they came and were on stage at the DNC, in fact, and it was a very powerful moment, you know, where they, these men had the many, many years of their lives stolen from the falsely accused and Donald Trump to this day is still, you know, saying that they did it. - Well, apparently after the debate, and there was a member of the, one of the central four, I like to call them the exonerated by it. - Yeah, at the debate and the approach Donald Trump afterwards and he goes, oh, he said, you know, and discussed and Donald Trump said, oh, so yeah, you're on my side, like he just sort of scurried away. But here's the thing, just the JD Vance admit that he made up a racist conspiracy theory. 91% say definitely, I'm not sure it's a 4%. No, he did not say 3%. Okay, really? All right, guys. All right, so here we go. So here's our other poll. Did Rich Lowy say the n-word on Megan Kelly's show? (both laughing) - That's got to be 100% unless someone's deaf. - I mean, it's only trolls in the thing. Because we, I mean, for the, there are people, for the trolls who are in the comment section, for the trolls who are in the comment section, run it back again. Play it. - You remember alternative facts with Kelly and they did the same thing. She wasn't saying you make up fictions and pretend they're facts. You bring other facts to bear in the debate that are being ignored. And that's what he was saying. And I love, I think it was in that interview where Dana Bash says, you know, the police have gone through 11 months of recordings of calls and they've only found two Springfield residents calling to complain about Haitian migrants. - Two Springfield residents calling to complain about Haitian maker. - Okay, got it, got it, got it, got it. - Don, Don, here's the thing. There's another possible explanation here, which is he read the transcript of the calls and the callers actually did use the N-word. - That's what I said. Do you think he's hearing this from people? Yes, go on with this. - Yeah, possible, not by any means out of the question. - I mean, he had said there that they called in and said Haitian N-word, right? That's what they actually said. Like that wouldn't have been correct. If that's in fact what they did say. - Trying to give him some grace there guys, but it's real tough. - I don't think, I'm thinking, you know, like I said, I was being sarcastic when I said, I wouldn't know about saying dumb shit live on television because, you know, we've gotten trouble before. - But don't we have the, there's a point here that a lot of what we're seeing, you know, against, I'm sure locally, there's a lot of racist, you know, reaction by the white community with the big influence of black folks coming in and Trump is magnifying that, you know, as politicians have been doing for decades, to win elections. I mean, what was it back in, you know, when Johnson signed the, was it the Voting Rights Act or the Civil Rights Act or something? And he said, I'm afraid we've lost the South, you know, for a generation, Democrats. This is, this is, there's a sad, sad history here going back a long time. - What happens with Rich? - I guess he can survive this, right? - Yeah, when he lives in a bubble, he lives in the right-wing media bubble now. And as long as he says nice things about Trump, he'll be fine. - You think he'll be okay. - That's okay. - He'll take care of him. - Yeah, are you asking about Lowry or about his Trump gonna be fine after all this? You know, I hate to say, I mean, what, his grab them by the pussy comment was a couple weeks before the election. We all thought that was, what could be more disqualifying than making that comment about 52% of the American population, right? And somehow Americans overlooked it. - Well, I think that's a real lesson for all of us to put that in this final 50 days is Democrats need to never take anything for granted. Why did the Hillary campaign not go up in Wisconsin with the full suite of TV when they had $80 million in the bank at the end of the campaign? They were complacent. They didn't feel like the race was still on. We have to run through the tape on this race. We have to go all the way until Kamala Harris puts her hand on the Bible, on the West Front, the Capitol, and swears the oath and heads down to the White House. It is gonna be over. - Is it over even then? - I think all the way through. - Yeah, it's certainly not over November 6 as we know Trump will do if he loses. - I know, yeah. - Everyone's like, oh, I'm doing a vacation after the election, after inauguration, maybe. - Did Rich Lowy say the N word on Meghan Kelly's show? - Wow, this is odd, but 88% say yes. No, it was an awful mispronunciation, 1%, and I'm not sure, say 11%. Okay. - Do we hear it? - Guys, I'm telling you, the more times I listen to it, the more times I hear it. - I know, this is weird. - There's been talk about that tape of "The Apprentice" where Trump uses the N word, right? Here's the thing. If that tape came out, do I think it would swing the polls by more than 1%? - No, probably not. - No, would not. Okay, that's why we have quotes like "The Lincoln Project" around, okay? Speaking of, "The Lincoln Project" now has a new 90 second add-out that I wanna play, and then we're gonna discuss it with these gentlemen. Here it is. - In 2020, they met in a historic debate. - Please welcome California Senator Kamala Harris and Vice President Mike Pence. - For 90 minutes, they disagreed on many issues. - The American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country. And here are the facts. 210,000 dead people in our country in just the last several months. - Kamala Harris, Senator Harris, I mean, I'm sorry. - It's fine, I'm Kamala. - They debated issues from COVID to foreign policy, reproductive rights to the economy. But today, for the first time in history, the two participants of a vice presidential debate agree on one basic fact. - I cannot, in good conscience, endorse Donald Trump in this campaign. - Mike Pence joins another Republican vice president, Dick Cheney, in saying he cannot support Donald Trump. It's more than policy or ideology. Donald Trump is a bad man who tried to end American democracy. His own vice president knows it. It's time to put country first, America or Trump. - Rick, you made that ad, right? - Yep. - So I wanna, I know what you think about it. Whitney, what do you think? Affected? - Yes, first time I've seen it. Has it been posted yet, Rick? - It's out, there's also a 60 second version of it as well for me. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very powerful. And I was just arguing with Trumpy who was saying, oh, people don't like working for Kamala and people like working for Trump. And I say, look, Kamala may not have, historically, she's had some pretty high turnover. Maybe that's a fair critique, but nobody rivals Trump. And I actually googled it to see how many members of his cabinet all. And there are 24 of his closest advisors from Kelly to McMaster, to Tillerson, to my friend, the mooch, all of whom have said, this man must never get anywhere near the Oval Office ever again, right? So, point, and then all of them, almost all of them, are Republicans who worked most closely with them. - Crazy, so Rick, Don, you dropped out there. - Yeah, you muted, I thought. - I hit my mute, sorry. So Rick, listen, I wanna know what you think about this ad. Obviously, you think it's effective, whether you do or not, you guys got it out pretty quickly, and what do you think? - You know, the genesis of it, we were down at the Texas trip fest over the weekend, last weekend, and when Liz Cheney came out and said she would be voting for Vice President Harris, and then my old boss, Dick Cheney, popped out and said he's gonna vote for Vice President Harris, we wanted to make sure that people understood the only people that were in the Vice President's office who can make a judgment about the qualifications for that, are looking at Trump and saying, "Hell no." And the only person who's either been Vice President or run for Vice President is with Trump is Sarah Palin, who is not exactly considered one of the great American statesmen. So, we are always talking to these Republicans who look at Mike Pence as a conservative, who look at Dick Cheney as a conservative, who they want low taxes and they are, they are, you know, for fiscal responsibility and all of those things, and they've accepted the deal with Trump for a long time. Having more people give them permission to walk away from Trump as much as they dislike, as much as they dislike Trump aesthetically, when they're told they can get away from him, we're seeing more of them start to take that option. It's not a huge number, it's never gonna be 50% of the party, but we don't need 50%, we need 10%, 11%, maybe less in some states. Because a person like Mike Pence, no one's gonna wake up and go, "Oh, that progressive wack-a-do Marxist Mike Pence." You know, noted, you know, Rhino squished Dick Cheney, no one's gonna say those things. So, these are real conservatives, yeah, Liz Cheney, Rhino, these are real conservatives making a point to Republican voters and independently need conservatives that they've made a considered decision, Trump's unacceptable. And as Whitney pointed out, you know, you have 42 of 44 senior cabinet aides and cabinet members who have said, Trump should never have that seat again. Mike Pompeo is the only one of any stature. And the other one is Cash Patel, who was sort of like a roving utility infielder for Trump chaos projects. So, you know, the vast majority of the serious people that were there in the first term will not be returning, would not return if he asked, and it tells you how dangerous the people that are gonna come back if Trump is reelected will be. So, I think we're gonna continue to make that point, and this ad was a part of a longer running strategy in the next 50 days to do that. - So, let me, let's talk about this, 'cause you mentioned you said you only need, what did you say you only need 10%, right? - You tend to 12% depending on the state Republicans to break over. In 2020, depending on the state, it was between three and 8% since January 6th, Dobbs and Trump sort of declining drastically. Our polling model says it's between 11 and 17%. If I can win on the low boundary of that in a lot of these swing states, they are so closely divided that if we take between 10 and 12% Trump can't win in a lot of places like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, North Carolina. - So, here's my question to you and let me, let me just give you some context here. According to a new ABC News, ABC News Ipsos poll, I was just reading it now, released on Sunday, taken in the days after last week's debate, guys. Paris holds the support of about 51% of polled registered voters compared to Trump's 47%. That is the same four-point split seen in polls taken before the debate. Whitney, I'll get to you, but I just want to ask Rick considering what he just said, she demolished him in that debate. Why no huge bounce in the poll? - One of the things that I really caution everybody to do at this point in time is to only look at swing state likely voter polls. It, national polls are fun and they're sort of wildly broadly indicative, but we saw a big pickup for her. We did see a debate bounce for her in places like Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan. It has had a meaningful impact in those states. Those states were paying a lot more attention to a lot more attention to the debate than other folks nationally. But national polls right now really skew you off the main axis of understanding because we really only care about the electoral college swing states right now. - Right. - And the top seven, we all know what they are. Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, Nevada, North Carolina, Georgia. And in those states, she did get a move out of the debate, she did get a bump out of the debate and she's leading now among likely voters and the model that we use, she's had probably the most remarkable six weeks I've ever seen in politics. - Yeah, tell me about it. Wow, I mean, it's really been remarkable to watch what happened. I just remember the night that President Biden's announced that he was going to step aside within four hours, the Democratic Party coalesced around her and they were saying it should be open. She's not ready yet. I mean, just moments before, I'm sure there was a cable news panel somewhere talking about that very subject. - I promise you there was somewhere. - Yeah, yeah. So Whitney, what do you think is an activist and a Democratic donor? Do you, why no bounce, at least according to the poll? - Well, the answer is, it's entirely possible as, yeah, it's possible that if, given she got smoked in the debate in terms of likability, poise, leadership and on the issues, what's the strategy? Let's get everybody not talking about getting crushed at the debate and going off on a crazy tangent about grilling cats in Ohio, right? Maybe that's the lesser of two evils, possibly. My biggest concern actually is, is the bit, the critique that concerns me the most is, is that some voters are like, the devil I know is better than the devil I don't. And the reality is, is Kamala Harris is not super well known to voters. She's been thrust into the spotlight. She's executed superbly, but I'd say 99% of it, other than the debate and that one interview has been all scripted. And Don, I'm curious, have you asked her to come on your show? Like if I were her, every single day, I would allocate half an hour to an hour to go on your show, to go on Colbert, to go on 60 minutes, to do unscripted stuff. The way Obama did where he, you know, he's personally laughs, she's got, she's got great charisma. And I think that would clinch the deal for a lot of people. - Well, I have asked her and a lot of people have asked and she has not agreed. And I agree because I don't think people are looking to trick her. There's nothing to really trick her about. There's nothing, there's no gotcha that she hasn't done anything racist. She hasn't really lied about anything. And to set the only thing is that she hasn't done any interviews and that's it. And she starts doing them. There's basically no criticism of her except for, you know, what are your policies? And she should be strong enough to be able to come on and articulate policies. And here's the thing, when people, this is what gets me. Number one, should she do interviews? You said that's the strategy. By the way, if you know the folks over there, call them up and tell them, you know, to come on the show. Right, I think people to say that people are undecided, the undecided people are gonna vote for Trump. That's what they're trying to tell you, right? I'm undecided. Does this woman have to give like a white paper and say, these are my policies? I think we know the difference between these two people. So I'm not buying that as a member of the media of the press. Yes, I would love for her to do as many interviews as possible. But this whole idea that Republicans are pushing about, she needs to go, the woman is out there every day. Okay, fine, I think we know what she's going to do. We don't even know what Donald Trump's policies are. And by the way, the entire time that he was president, even when he became the nominee, I don't know one single person at CNN who got an interview with him. So speaking of dodging reporters, right? So let's have the same rule for everyone. But you know, I just wonder, you know, if this whole idea about her not doing press, if that's really gonna hurt her, because I did hear people saying they didn't know her. And I go on talk to people, they say, well, we don't really know her. Who knows the vice president anyways? Right, I don't know. Well, here's how they're gonna know her. She's gonna spend $350 million in the next three weeks on television. They're gonna know her. They're gonna feel like they know we're better than they know their own family members, because she's about to turn every TV market in the swing states into a radioactive pile of debris with so much advertising, people will scream for mercy. And look, going on TV, arguing about policy, or talking about policy, I think one of the things that if she wasn't on this upward arc, they probably would do more of that. But what she's doing now has been working. It has been driving her faves about a point to a point and a half a week. And it has to kept Trump pinned down because he's chasing things like her rallies, not like an interview on CNN or Fox or wherever. Look, I don't think she's completely foreclosing on doing more television, but I don't think it's as necessary as a lot of folks in the media think. I can tell you voters don't make up their mind based on whether or not a candidate is more or less accessible to the media. 'Cause as you point out, when Trump was running in 16, he got a lot of free media from everybody. When he ran in 20, he was on Fox almost exclusively. It was a different world then. And I don't think it's gonna really be the deciding factor here. - Yeah, okay, so listen, I don't disagree with you. And I'm just saying, it's a natural-- - Can I disagree with them? - Yeah, I think it's a natural integration. I don't necessarily disagree with them, but I think it's a natural inclination of journalists and for the American people really to want you to hear more. Go ahead, Whitney. - Yeah, respectfully, Rick. I mean, one, if she were up substantially heavily favored to win, I could understand a more conservative strategy and avoid opportunities to put her foot in her mouth, but basically it's not clear to me, I think the race is 50-50 right now. That's what every model and every betting site says as well and look, whoever wins Pennsylvania is 93% likely to win the election and she had a two-point lead in Pennsylvania a couple of weeks ago and that's down to half a point. So it's not even clear to me, she's got momentum. Now, hopefully the debate, we don't really have post-debate polls out, but in other words, I don't wanna go into election day, 50-50. And so, and look, if I thought she was inarticulate somehow or was gonna do poorly in a unscripted setting, we saw her at the debate in an unscripted setting and she did fabulously. So, Trump is out there running his mouth every day. I would be out there contrasting herself with that every single day. I mean, yeah, start here with you, Don, and I'm gonna give you a pitch. Start, you know, your unscripted tour with Don Lemon. But I'd even go into hostile territory. I love it when Pete Buttigieg goes on Fox News and gives it to them, right? I'd go in and go where Trump went, go to the All-In podcast, go sit down for three hours with Alex Friedman, for heaven's sakes, like. - That's what Donald Trump is doing. When I think it's working. - Right, right. If he's doing it, she, you know, you know, again, I wouldn't recommend this if I thought she had an 80% chance of winning, but she doesn't, and I want an 80% chance of winning at 50 days from now. - Can I ask you guys something? What do you guys think of Jill Stein? - Useful idiot. - Whitney? - No opinion. - You won't say. - No, no, no, it's not that I have an opinion. I'm trying to hide from you. She's just so not on my radar screen. - R.K. - Jr. was on my radar screen, and him dropping out, I think, unfortunately, added a point to Trump, you know, at that. - Whitney, I think literally it's about a point. - Does, but this is a election that's gonna be decided to play a point in a couple swing states. Like, all seven swing states right now are basically within a point, pretty much. - Does Jill Stein hurt Kamala Harris? - Marginal. - Okay. - I mean, Ben, this is our friend, you know, and you can disagree if it's not your friend, but it's, like, a many Hassan, he's grilling Jill Stein on Putin, praise, et cetera, and I just wanted to get your response to it. Here it is. - We looked at your social media, and you haven't done that many posts, specifically calling out Russian attacks on civilian areas. You haven't called Vladimir Putin a war criminal, but you have called Benjamin Netanyahu-- - No, actually, we did, in my very first remarks about the Ukraine war. We condemned-- - Vladimir Putin's a war criminal. - Yes, we did-- - And Michelle said it's a war criminal. - Yes, in so many words, yes, we have said it as much. - You called Netanyahu one, which I think he is. - Oh, absolutely. - But it's Putin a war criminal. So what we said about Putin was that his invasion of Ukraine is a criminal, it's a criminal, and murderous war. - And he's a war criminal who should be on Trump? - Well, by implication-- - You're struggling here to be very simple, this is why people have their doubts about you and Russia. - Well, why is Benjamin Netanyahu a war criminal, but not Vladimir Putin? - Well, as John F. Kennedy said, we must not be afraid to-- we must not negotiate out of fear, and we must not fear to negotiate. So if you want to be an effective world leader, you don't start by name calling and hurling after this. - So how will President Stein negotiate with Israel then if you've called Netanyahu a war criminal? - Well, because he very clearly is a war criminal. - So Putin clearly isn't a war criminal. - Well, we don't have a decision put it this way by the International Criminal Court. - Yes, we do. - Yes, actually you're wrong. There's a rest war for Putin. There isn't yet an arrest warrant for Netanyahu. So why is Putin not a war criminal, but Netanyahu is? - Yeah. - Well, let me say this. - Well, let me say this. - Either you're a war criminal or you're not. Is Vladimir Putin a war criminal? - In so many words, yes he is. - I don't know what so many words are. Butch is glad he may put in a war criminal. - Let me say that whatever you think he is, if you want to pull him back. - You come on the right thing. I'm asking you what you can do when you're president. - Well, if you are a world leader, you don't begin your conversation by calling someone a war criminal. - So why do you call the Biden and Netanyahu a war criminal? - Because we have a clear strategy and we have a very strong-- - Doesn't make any sense to me butch. - That was brutal. That's just painful. That's just painful. - Wait, yeah. - Many knows how to bring the heat in an interview like that. And she deserved it. That she has been an apologist for Putin. She had every chance there, a man who was sending hypersonic missiles and glide bombs into deliberately into civilian neighborhoods every single day and night in Ukraine who has been condemned by every major institution in the world, except for those bastions of democracy around China and North Korea. I mean, this is an open and shy. I mean, Whitney is much more-- - Literally, literally 10 minutes ago, I was hearing an air raid siren from one of those missiles that are randomly striking civilian areas. Of course, it's a war criminal. - Yeah. - Now, that said, sometimes you need to strike a deal and recognize reality. And I think the Ukraine war is going to end roughly the same way the Korean war ended. And it's just a question of how much more suffering has to happen before that happens. - Well, guys, thank you. I love this conversation. You guys are great. Whitney, I appreciate it-- - For sure. - Paying up late, what time is it in Ukraine? - It's one in the morning. - Wow. I remember being there and those sirens going off and, you know-- - Yeah, and I'm getting up for a long day tomorrow to go see the people and the areas that Putin has devastated. - No, it's-- - Will you put back those, please? Can we, are you going to see, are you going to, will you capture any of it? - Yes. I'll send you, you know, once I'm out of the country, I'll send, I'll put together a detailed report. I tend not to disclose exactly where I am and what I'm doing because Putin is a part of his criminal nature is anyone who criticizes him puts themselves at some degree of risk. - Yeah. - Be careful with me. - Yeah, Whitney, be careful. And there's a, we have a poll up. You guys can real quickly, if you want to answer it, it says, do you think Jill signed? Signed is a Russian asset. So go ahead and vote with quickly as possible. So listen, I'm going to get out of here. Subscribers don't get mad at me. I'm not going to talk to you as much as I usually do after I let the guests go 'cause I got to run. Guess what I have to do, guys? Guess where I'm going, Rick. - Where you going? - I'm going to CNN. I'm going on CNN to talk about this tonight. - Nice. - So to talk about my-- - Oh, wow, congratulations. - You're free at once, I've lost my search for God in America. If you haven't bought it, buy it, buy it, separate local bookstores, you can get it also on Amazon. But I would suggest that you support your local bookstore, but if you have to get it on Amazon, get it. But I'm going on, I will be on in an hour at 7 p.m. Eastern. So make sure you guys tune in. - Okay, Don, can I tell you a very, very funny story? Speaking of Ukraine and CNN, very quickly. When I was here in February, I bumped into Christiana Namapur, who was doing a piece. She interviewed me, and I hadn't told my parents, I was in Ukraine, so they wouldn't worry about me. How did they discover I was in Ukraine? They watched Christiana Namapur every night, and there was their son. You know, this is Christiana Namapur from Neapro, Ukraine, interviewing American Whitney Tilsen. That's how they discovered I was in Ukraine. - Whoops, bad, bad Whitney. All right, everyone. - Thank you so much. - They were very proud of me. - I appreciate you guys. We got great engagement today. - Folks, folks are responding to the polls. They're all in the comments. Make sure you like and subscribe. Please hit the thumbs up before you get out and effects the algorithm. And if you hit it enough, more people, more people will get to see me. We'll get to see Rick, and they'll get to see Whitney in this episode of The Don Lemon Show. Thank you, Rick. Thank you, Whitney. - Thanks, John. - Please be safe. - Thank you. - Please be safe over there, Whitney. And thank you, subscribers. Make sure you watch me on Aaron Burnett tonight, and on CNN at seven o'clock, okay? Seven Eastern. I'll talk to you guys soon. Bye bye. Have a great evening. Bye bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]
