This episode is brought to you by Lifelock. October is Cyber Security Awareness Month, so Lifelock wants to remind you to update your passwords. Using the same password across multiple accounts makes you vulnerable to cyber criminals. For comprehensive identity theft protection, let Lifelock alert you to anything suspicious and fix any issues. Start protecting your identity today with a 30-day free trial at lifelock.com/podcast. Terms apply. Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the Don Lemon Show Lemon Live at 5, where the subscriber, their voices get to be heard on this show. We'll read some of your comments and your questions. So here we go. What do we two days out from the debate or two nights out? Kamala Harris won. The Vice President Kamala Harris won that debate the other night. That's not my opinion. That is now clear. It is clear objective reality. She won on style. She won on substance. Well, she looked better. She wasn't orange. And now she's being rewarded with a significant bump in the polls. Not in one poll, not in one snap survey, but in all of the legitimate polls that we have seen. We have that holes, and we're going to find out what's behind it. We have perfect guests for that. But is it a temporary bump? That's what I want to know. Could it carry her all the way to November? That's what we're going to talk about. Also, we have some breaking news to discuss. Just moments ago, the former President Donald Trump announcing that he will not debate Vice President Kamala Harris again, even he knows that he was obviously trounced the other night. Let's discuss now. All-star panel. I love these guys so much. Joshua Doss is a senior pollster at Hit Strategies. And he directs the organization's economics and Black Motor Department. And for the first time on this show, I've been on her show, I've had it with Jennifer Welch as a host of the extremely popular I've had it with podcast. And trust me when I say, you're not tuning in. If you're not tuning in, you're missing that show. You're missing something really great. Hi, guys. How you doing? Great. How are you? Thanks for having us. You're doing really great. Congratulations on your big get for the debate, by the way. The former President Barack Obama was on your show and I was rooting for you guys and bumping into you. That was amazing. It was great. Always great to see it on. Thank you. I did. No, we did. We saw Don in the halls of the United Center and Angie, my co-host of the podcast and I screamed Don Lemon and just squeezed him as tight as we could. That was so great out there. Josh was like, wait a minute, I missed that on these moments. I don't think I would have gotten angry. I saw you too. You just didn't recognize me. We walked right by each other like three times, in fact, there. Are you serious? Say hello? I was just, I did a little one of those, but you didn't recognize me. It's okay. I'll get you next time. You would have thought that I was running for because people hadn't seen me and they were stopping me to talk to me. It was a little nuts. Okay. So let's discuss. I'm going to give you guys. We had so much to talk about. We're going to talk about the debate. That's our topic. We're going to talk about Trump's racist Haitian conspiracy. Okay. So let me just give you a little context about what I said. As soon as the debate ended yesterday, we had early indications that Americans thought that Kamala Harris had won. According to CNN SRS, a snap hole, debate watcher said that 63% to 37% that Harris had a better performance on stage. Keep in mind, prior to the debate, 50% of those polls said that they thought Trump would win and 50% thought that Kamala Harris would win. But today got even more evidence that voters think that Harris cleaned Trump's clock. Two important polls dropped just this afternoon in a national poll from the morning consult. Harris now leads 50 to 45. Look at that face. I see you smiling there, Jennifer. That's our biggest lead ever in the morning console poll. What is more, a national Ipsos Reuters poll, it's 47 to 42 in Harris' favor. So Josh, this is what you do over at hit strategies. What do you read into this shift? Now I understand some of the polling that you're going to share as well. So what do you read into this? Is it sustainable? Is this good? Is it just a bump that she might get right after a debate? Well, it lasts. Yeah. So polling certainly doesn't tell us whether or not a leader is sustainable. The only thing that we can really do to predict that is look at the mechanics of how the two candidates are running their campaigns, right? And for folks that like Vice President Harris, they have a lot to be pretty excited about in that regard. I would say the bump is good, and it's directional data. Obviously, Don, as you know, what you want to be looking at is how she's performing in the swing states that matter, right? To win an election, we're looking at Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, Nevada, the ones you know. And you know, looking at some of the data being broken down, she's performing pretty well there too. As far as it happening right after the debate, oftentimes there can be a little bit of wonkiness right after a big event, right? You'll have Democrats that are just more likely to respond to surveys, right? And to say that they are excited. There are things that we do as pollsters to account for that, down waiting results and not waiting results and the like, but it can make a little bit of a higher margin of error. But yeah, I would say all in all, it's good directional data for Georgia. Okay. So on the topic of Trump losing and losing badly, I just want to play this is a great new ad. It's from the Lincoln Project. I want to get your reactions. Here it is. Vice President Harris was clearly well prepared, practiced on the offensive much of the night. Former President Trump did take a lot of the bait that she threw out. She did so well and Trump did so poorly that they want to do that all over again. I can't get behind somebody who maybe I agree with certain policies on, but their character is atrocious and lacks complete leadership. She conveyed the calm. She conveyed a preparation. Vice President Harris clearly won the debate in terms of her delivery, her polish and her preparation. The moment of the debate, if there was one, I think was when she baited him on the rallies. People saw, oh, actually she's an intelligent, capable person who has a point of view on issues and she demonstrated that time it again. She was composed. She was prepared. She kept her cool. She saw advantages. She took them. Donald Trump looked old tonight. This is the difference between someone who's well prepared and someone who's unprepared. Whoever did the debate prep for Donald Trump should be fired. It's actually a difficult night. And I heard that laugh. Now listen, he's running around all over the place saying, hey, I won. I said, you know, 90% of whatever. It's great. She knows she got killed. It's like a prize fighter when they knew they lose. They want to have a rematch and that's why she wants to have a rematch. And I'm not doing that. That's a good ad. And you know, it's going to tick him off. So I mean, that's brutal, especially considering most of the people that are quoted in that ad that are speaking are part of the MAGA universe. I mean, it's not like Rachel Maddow up there saying that. It is people Walsh saying that, but you know, it's total MAGA people that are saying that it's absolutely brutal. And I think what happened with this debate is when Trump is removed from the MAGA bubble and everybody sees him through the lens of a normal person's perspective, the craziness comes into focus and even they couldn't deny it. If they saying why all of his rallies, they can prop him up and act like he's so with it and he's their big champion. But when they see it through the lens of every American, they're incapable of doing that or they'll diminish their own careers and their own credibility. Do you think he's that delusional, though, to think that he actually won? Perhaps he is because he's very adamant about it. And he's been going on Fox News, actually, you know, right now he's mad at Neil Cabuto. We'll get that up in a second, but he's mad at Neil Cabuto and one of the Fox hosts. But do you think he's that delusional that he thinks he won? Yes, I absolutely do. I think he thinks he won the 2020 election. He thinks that he's People Magazine, Sexiest Man Alive, Time Magazine Man of the Year. This is delusions of grandeur that needs to be in a Petri dish and be studied. I mean, this will be in many textbooks that are going to predate his life describing malignant narcissism, megalomania, delusions of grandeur. And now you see it his rallies. He demonstrates what psychiatrists refer to as flight of ideas. And I think he's going to be a case study for centuries to come. Hmm. Josh, you know, who you know, Frank Luns, right? The pollster Frank Luns. He's a legendary pollster strategist. And I think it's important to remember that he's never really been a Trump supporter. Not a huge Trump supporter. You wouldn't call him MAGA, but he's a longtime GOP operative. And I want to play. This is his reaction. Pay close attention, everyone. This is his reaction to Trump's debate performance. Watch. Kamala won, and does that means you may now win the election? I think more accurately it's that Donald Trump lost. And this is not the worst debate performance I've seen in my career, but it's very close to it. The conversations about people eating dogs and cats, calling the leader of Hungary one of the greatest world leaders, repeatedly missing the opportunity to focus on inflation and affordability and the complete inability to present his point of view without completely tearing into her, into Joe Biden, into whomever was in his sights. It was a pretty negative performance, pretty pessimistic, cynical, contemptuous. And I think that this will cost him, yes, I'm trying to decide if I want to go on record and the answer is yes, I think that he loses because of this debate performance. Wow. Yeah. Listen, Joshua, you know that as someone who does focus groups and at pollster, you don't want to go and make predictions, right, because there's always the videotape out there. But I think that is, Frank Glunz is a pretty smart guy and he thinks Trump's debate performance lost them in the election. What do you think of that, Joshua? Yeah, like I'll say Frank Glunz is a brilliant pollster. I am surprised that he went on record saying that. I do think that debates have a really long history of not moving the needle very much outside of this very last one, right? So I can understand a willingness to think differently than the history of debates moving folks one or two percentage points. I also think that Frank Glunz is really well aware that Trump's job was not to look good in front of the left or independent. Trump's job was to turn out that 47 to 46% that loves him regardless. He's always running a primary. He never runs a general, right? Throw red meat to his base. And I don't think that Trump did as bad of a job doing that as some folks are saying. But the question is, is the rest of America just done with that? And will the other side be able to turn out more? I think that that's the question. I agree with you. My analysis right after the debate was on substance, on facts, on style, on her legislation, whatever you want to call it, that Kamala Harris clearly won, right, by getting her message across. She was the clear winner there. But he did when I believe that he won over his supporters because they are out still saying that he won. A lot of them are. The folks on television, you know, they've got to have some credibility and they'll tell you the truth. But some of his people really believe and I spoke to some of them yesterday that he actually won the debate. What do you think, Jennifer, do you think, do you agree with Frank Glunz and you know Frank Glunz? In his work, he's a long time cooperative. I do think that he's correct. I am frustrated that it boils down to a few states and that the turnout in those states, the margin of error could be so slim. We're talking about, you know, 10,000 votes or so. But I think what amazes me and leaves me so incredulous is that the debate ended him. That's not the insurrection. The grab them by the, you know what, the racism. It's like, I feel like if somebody were to say to me, you know, I voted for him twice, but that debate did it. I'd be like, oh, so now you're finished with him? I've never seen somebody with so many lifelines as this guy. And it's we're always moving the goalpost as to what finishes Trump, what finishes him. And now we're at the debate stage. Now the debate has finished him. So I hope for inculences right, but as a human being and as an American citizen, I'm frustrated that hit the goalposts are constantly moved as to what is going to be Trump's demise. And it should have been ages ago when he came down the escalator and spewed racist things about immigrants in this country. That should have been the end of it. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. Oh, here I would love to. If we can, let's let's bring up the January 6th sound and then we'll go to it in a second from the debate. But you're right. Mr. President, on January 6th, oh, there it is. We have it. Okay. Here it is. You told your supporters to march to the Capitol. You said you would be right there with them. The country and the world saw what played out of the Capitol that day. The officers coming under attack, aides in the West Wing say you watched it unfold on television off the Oval Office. You did send out tweets, but it was more than two hours before you sent out that video message telling your supporters to go home. Is there anything you regret about what you did on that day? You just said a thing that is uncovered peacefully and patriotically. I said, during my speech, not later on, peacefully and patriotically, and nobody on the other side was killed. Ashley Babbitt was shot by an out of control police officer that should have never ever shot her. It's a disgrace. But we didn't do this group of people that have been treated so badly. I asked, what about all the people that are pouring into our country and killing people? That she allowed to pour it in. She was the boarders are. Remember that. She was the boarders are. She doesn't want to be called the boarders are because she's embarrassed by the board. In fact, she said at the beginning, "Oh, I'm surprised you're not talking about the board yet." That's because she knows what a bad job they've done. What about those people? What are they going to be prosecuted? One of these people from countries all over the world, not just South America, they're coming in from all over the world, David, all over the world and crime rates are down all over the world because of it. But let me just say that. David, one of those people going to be prosecuted. One of the people that burned down Minneapolis going to be prosecuted or in Seattle. They went into Seattle. They took over a big percentage of the city of Seattle. One of those people going to be prosecuted. Listen, as I've been saying this, those people, there are people who have been prosecuted and they got far worse sentences than people on January 6th. That part was a lie. Joshua, the more I look at it, that debate night, we expect Donald Trump to behave in a certain way and of course he lived up to it. But the more I look at it, his ranting seems to sit standing next to Kamala Harris who's giving him the look like I had no idea what you're talking about. He seems more unhinged in that debate. And I can see how that was disqualifying for a lot of people. I agree with Jennifer that this should have happened long ago, but perhaps this is the final straw and people are willing and ready to turn the page as Kamala Harris has been saying. But he looked crazy in that debate. Yeah, he was, I mean, Trump has always, you know, we saw in that last clip, right? He starts one place he ends up somewhere else. He's always been a pretty undisciplined messenger. He's always been a little off his rocker in that way, right? I think the difference is we weren't always eight years into this, right? We weren't always at the level of attrition that we have, right? And so, Trump's the same old playbook that Vice President Harris is doing a good job of pointing to, not letting it just go over the head and respond, but saying like, look, he just keeps doing the same thing. He did the same thing back five years ago. He did the same thing 10 year, the same old playbook. It is getting a little bit tiring for independent voters, particularly in some of those swing states. So if, you know, to Jennifer's point, if this is the debate or the thing that that buries him that would be pretty unfortunate, but to your point, Don, it would make sense because of where we are in the history of Donald Trump on the political stage in America. Uh, Janet, as I mentioned at the top of the show, we have some breaking news and I just wanted to make sure that I read the post right. Okay. This is Donald Trump's post on the debate. We announced that he's too scared. He announced that he's too scared to debate the vice president again. So let me read this quote, this quote in full. When a prize fighter loses a fight, the first words out of his mouth are, I want to rematch in all caps. Polls clearly show, we're talking about this illusion, Jennifer, polls clearly show that I won the debate against comrade, Kamala Harris, the debates radical left candidate on Tuesday night. And she immediately called for a second debate. She and cricket Joe have destroyed our country with millions of criminals and mentally deranged people pouring into the USA, totally unchecked and unvetted and with inflation bankrupting our middle class. Everyone knows this and all of the other problems caused by Kamala and Joe. It was discussed in great detail during the first debate with Joe and the second debate with comrade Harris. She was a no show at the Fox debate and refused to do NBC and CBS and this is all caps. She's in at the bottom, Kamala should focus on what she should have done during the last almost four year period. There will be no third debate. Your thoughts, please ma'am and go ahead. Take your time doing it. I mean, first of all, I would just want to say, does that make you feel like a tough guy? Do you feel like a big tough guy whipping out your cap logs? Come on. And he knows that and the people surrounding him know that when he was on trial for his 34 felony convictions, his poll numbers went up because he was out of the public eye. And now that he's out talking about Hannibal Lecter and boats and migrants eating cats and dogs and all this crazy BS that he spews, he's having problems in the polls because I think there are degrees of MAGA. I think there is the MAGA cult and these are the people that you see that buy the NFT cards that are still waiting for them to come in the mail because they don't understand their digital, that are buying the Trump Bibles, the tennis shoes, etc. That's the cult. And then you have, I live in Oklahoma City, you have a degree above that in states that are kind of reddish and then my city's purplish where these are people that are a little bit embarrassed to admit that they're going to be three time Trump voters. And these are the most dangerous ones and the most insidious ones because the ones that are loud and proud, you know it, you know you can't reach them, that's all cooked in. But I'm talking about what I would consider, they would consider themselves polite white people. They're okay with racism. They're okay with him demonizing a group of Haitian immigrants and basically saying they eat pets. And they don't, they seem to be unbothered by the fact that Trump is the criminal, Trump is the one that is a con artist, wrecked the economy, etc, etc. And these people I've had conversations with around Oklahoma City and it always, you always know they're going to vote for Trump because they say this, you know, are these the only two choices we have? And I'm like, oh, I know they're voting for Trump because that's a false equivalency. They put Kamala Harris who has been incredibly ambitious, intelligent, poised, and she's had to work a lot harder than I had to as a woman because of her melanin and her skin. And she was attorney general of a state, a senator, vice president of the United States and now a candidate for president of the United States. And it's just insulting to me and to my intelligence and to my ability to critically think, to say that she's somehow on the same playing field as this convicted felon, racist, grifter, con artist, it just makes me crazy. Well, that's the thing that gets me, people talk about all kinds of reasons that he's disqualifying as I watch the shows, I watch the morning shows, I watch whatever. And I said, is anybody going to talk about the racism? Because that's really the underlying factor in all of this. And since you said that, okay, I don't know if you guys caught this last week, but Maggie Haberman of the New York Times wrote this fascinating piece ahead of the debate, and I'm going to quote here. So bear with me. It's a kind of a short pass passage. Trump advisors worried that he will not be able to stop himself from showing his deep contempt for Ms. Harris or from seeming to lecture a female opponent. While Trump respected Hillary Clinton as a very smart and a hard worker, Mr. Trump genuinely believes that Harris is unintelligent and lazy to your point, okay? Trump advisors and allies say in private, he uses extremely misogynistic language to describe her and gossips about her past romantic relationships, including Willie Brown, the former mayor of San Francisco. That is fascinating to me, Joshua, because actually let me let the woman respond to that. Do you see the misogyny in that Jennifer? Because it's fascinating to me that he respected Hillary Clinton, but now he earnestly thinks that Kamala Harris is dumb. I wonder if he still thinks she's dumb because she wiped the floor with him. I think, and this is just my own opinion, I think that he thinks Kamala is attractive. And here's why I think that, because when there was the time magazine sketch of her, and there's that clip where he's like, I mean, she looks like Melania, she's beautiful. I think that the fact that Kamala is attractive has really thrown him for a loop. So what is he talking about? He's doing his quote, unquote, Melania's words to Anderson Cooper locker room talk about her sex life in the past. Meanwhile, he's the one that has three wives and screws the porn stars and the Playboy bunnies blah, blah, but we never, you know, slut shame a man. But there's something, there's something about her and how attractive she is that I think intimidates him. I think it's more vapid than her intelligence. I think I kind of think he has a little bit of a crush on her. And I think it's thrown him for a loop. Joshua, what you think? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't disagree with that. She looked like she looked like the most beautiful movie star ever. She looked like a great first lady. She's attractive. I remember that quote. I mean, I kind of have the same thought a little bit, but I never, I didn't flesh it out the way that Jennifer just did and it makes, it does make a lot of sense. And I also just think generally, you know, we're talking about Trump, but the Republican party as a whole, it really struggles to criticize black women, candidates or leaders without sounding sexist or racist. I mean, we saw this with Stacy, we, I mean, we've seen this in more than just Trump. But yeah, I mean, as far as her being a woman, and I also think to your point of her being attractive, like I feel like Trump probably never in his life has been in a position where he's had to take any type of direction from a woman, let alone the attractive women he brings around that like are just there to take attention or just to take direction from him. Right. So it's probably a complete reversal of what he's used to when he's looking at a beautiful woman. So yeah, I agree. You said the Republican party struggles with criticizing women of color, anyone of color, I mean, we know what that struggle is. I mean, I think just pointed it out. And I mean, they're leaning into the racism. The racism is built in and they're not even aware of their racism, or maybe they just don't even care considering that he's a messenger and I believe he's the one who's speaking for them. But let me put this up, right? Because I want to move on. We've got a whole lot to put up. He posted something else on Truth Social today, okay, and then get the cat video ready for us, please. So look, show this cat picture. This is what he put on, Kamala hates me now. I'm sorry. That seems like his feelings are hurt. I mean, I'm so I'm getting that he low key has crushed vibes on her. This is right. Jennifer. Yes. When I looked at this just now, it's like, wait, this is a crush photo like like me, like me, like me. Seriously, Kamala hates me with the cat. I mean, I think it is completely thrown him for a loop because all of the women around him, his lawyer, the one, I forget her name, but they're all so absurd her. They're also obsequious to him. And then you have Kamala, who says opponent, she's intellectually challenging. She's very attractive. And I think it's really thrown him for a loop. Did you see his body language at the 9/11 Memorial the day after reading my mind when he turns over, he completely tries to pull. He does the Trump thing where he shakes her hand and tries to pull her in. And he was like grinning from ear to ear and I was like, he he can't handle her. He cannot handle her. And then she turns and she and Chuck Schumer were gossiping about him giggling afterwards. It was so good. I injected that whole thing into my veins. I loved it. I'm telling you, he is but hurt. He is sad about Kamala hates me. I think there's there's something he's attracted to her. Jennifer, Joshua and I are loving you today. You got the real deal, girl. I love it. I love it. I love it. These are great points. I think of all of the strong ladies I grew up with in Louisiana who cannot deal with the bullshit and I am a white lady. So I really respect who can't deal with the bullshit. My white girlfriends, I should say, okay. So thank you for your candor. I think that he does like her. Now, I think this was the most one of the most outrageous moments when he talked about the cats and I didn't think that he was going to go there during the debate. I was like, there's no way he's going to go there and make himself look that foolish. Here is the cat moment that had the country that has the country talking. In Springfield, they're eating the dogs, the people that came in. They're eating the cats. They're eating the pets of the people that live there. And this is what's happening in our country and it's a shame. As far as rallies are concerned, as far as the reason they go is they like what I say. They want to bring our country back. They want to make America great against very simple phrase. Make America great again. Okay. We saw the whole thing. All you have to do is talk about crowd sizes and then the cat thing, I don't know where the hell that came from. It's embarrassing. Why on earth would he talk about that, Joshua? Why would Joshua, by the way, you're muted? Oh, I'll tell you a little about you. Yeah. Okay, this has been the problem with just generally the media for the last nine years with Trump, is to cover him in any type of real way, you have to bring a level of coherence to fundamentally incoherent things. That was a bunch of gibberish nonsense, and we sit here and we laugh at it. But then for years and years, folks were like, well, what he means is, or what he's trying to say is, right, and we have to like bring order to disorder. And so like, there is no, there is no coherence in that sentence, in that idea, in that pattern of thought, right? And I'm not even going to try to bring it, bring some order to it because it is, it is fundamental. It's crazy. It's crazy. Well, let me talk about something else that's crazy because I saw JD Vance today on the campaign trail, JD Vance is defending it, saying, you know, that the media is not aware of it, and maybe the city manager is not aware of it, the police are not aware of it, but that's what residents of Springfield Ohio are saying. And so they believe it is accurate. I mean, okay, what JD Vance is JD Vance is the worst. He has no backbone. You have people within the MAGA movement who are total white supremacists who go after his wife. And in a play out of Ted Books, Ted Cruz's playbook, he doesn't defend his wife against these racist attacks. His kids are biracial. And there's been all of this racism about Kamala's race as she, Indian, or she became black, all that BS, MAGA racism that they do. And he cannot stand up for his wife and kids. So it doesn't surprise me that this man is saying that, oh, somebody in Ohio told me that people are eating cats and dogs. It's really an insult. It shows you how little they think of their supporters, that they can say such egregious lies. And these people, they lap it up. It's like, it's like the politics for people that lack critical thinking. Yeah, and they're never going to beat the weird allegations bringing up people eating. They consistently lose to the allegations of them being weird. They're like, don't call me weird anyway. So they're eating cats and dogs. And they're sending Jewish children to the moon to spy on your abortion. What are you talking about? This episode is brought to you by Lifelock, October is Cyber Security Awareness Month. So Lifelock wants to remind you to update your passwords. Using the same password across multiple accounts makes you vulnerable to cyber criminals. For comprehensive identity theft protection, let Lifelock alert you to anything suspicious and fix any issues. Start protecting your identity today with a 30-day free trial at Lifelock.com/podcast. Terms apply. Let me just say that making the point, and I think, you know, we love Anna DeBaro, right? I think she can make the point as well as, or even better than we can sometimes as a political strategist and a former Republican, where he says these deranged, crazy things about the cats, about Haitian people, and she said we laugh at them, right, as we are now. But she mentioned what she's saying exactly what you're saying as well. But it is dangerous. This is my friend, Anna DeBaro. I believe it was on CNN, let's see. Night before the debate, I think. And we had an entire segment, I think it was Tom Foreman, who debunked this. Now, if you're not on Twitter, if you're not on whatever the hell it's called now, and if you're not watching CNN, this thing that Donald Trump, all of a sudden, said about immigrants eating cats and eating pets came out of left field and you thought he was completely absolutely insane. If Joe Biden had said the same thing, he would have been pulled off the stage and sent immediately into a loony bin. But because Donald Trump gets away with being Donald Trump and saying crazy things, what's happening with Donald Trump? Like Kamala Harris says, it is a page from an old tired playbook. He always goes against immigrants, tries to cause fear, tries to build that into folks going out and voting out of fear. Last week, it was about Venezuelan gangs taking over Aurora, Colorado. The officials of that city said that story was false. This week, it is a completely made up story about somebody eating a cat and turning into a Haitian immigrant. This is, though, it may be funny to some people, a lot of people have done funny memes. It's also incredibly racist and incredibly dangerous because I remember when a whack job triggered by things that were set against Latinos, took a gun and went and hunted down Latinos and an El Paso Walmart. And I remember when a whack job triggered by conspiracy theories about the comment pizza plays in Washington, D.C. and the sex ring that the Clintons were supposedly running there showed up with a gun. So it's crazy. It may be funny. It may lead to a lot of memes, but it's also racist and dangerous and it is shameful that continues to be amplified by people like Donald Trump, his followers and his vice presidential team. Let me play. There are so many other examples, there are other examples of that. By the way, I was just saying how many people can they get around on a table. But there are so many other examples of that, Jennifer, the guy who went into the supermarket in Buffalo and on and on and on, people who end up with these racist manifestos, right? And they are part of the MAGA movement. And let's just be honest, as we have been saying and after Georgia, this is a predominantly white male problem, young white male problem. And most of the time, they align and agree with the former president. You know, I agree with everything she said so eloquently and so beautifully. And as a white woman who was raised in white circles, lives in white circles, socializes in white circles, this is the last thing white people need. White people need to hear arguments for being empathetic towards people of color. I remember I had some friends over to my house after Barack Obama won. And I was so excited. I had the yard sign at my kids had little yes, we can t-shirts. I was all chips in on it. And a friend, a casual friend of mine comes over and she says, I guess we're going to have to start calling Air Force one after one. And I was like, excuse me? And white people know these whispers are said all the time. And if there isn't somebody of color around, it's excused and you don't really say anything about it and everybody moves on. And so living in a red state where I see racism, I hear racism, I've heard it my whole life. And you have to actively remind yourself not to fall prey to the racist indoctrination that you were raised in. So the last thing, if we're going to heal and overcome all of the racial issues that have destroyed so many communities in this family, the last thing white people need to hear is crap like that because then what happens is I've been in grocery store lines in Oklahoma City before, two women speaking Spanish and a guy right behind her going, excuse me, are you going to speak American? And now I speak in and I say it's English and they can speak whatever language they want. It's a free country. But also it's an open carry state here. So then you're scared and it's just this Pandora's box of racism and fear and lack of civility that he has bred and I believe that a lot of white people can be swayed out of their racist indoctrinations. But with Trump at the top of the ticket spewing the stuff and scaring everybody nonstop that people that don't look like them or might have an accent are going to commit crimes against their pets, their kids, their wives or themselves. It's the last thing those communities need to hear. It's the last thing that nation needs, especially a nation with such a horrible history of racial crimes towards innocent people. That's a tough lesson, Joshua. And we know Jennifer is right. We know so many of our white brethren don't agree with that. And when we pointed out, when we pointed out, right, they call us race baiters and race hustlers. Now I'm not sure what they call you, Jennifer. I don't know if they have a name for you if they - I'm sorry. I'm woke. You're woke. Right. Another pejorative. But how do we get to that? How do we get to that where people are as thoughtful as Jennifer? Do you think that we can ever get to that? Obviously not in the election, but sometime soon. With Trump in the White House, if he returns to the White House. Trump in the White House is certainly a huge step backwards to that end goal, for sure. Because Trump knows like a lot of leaders throughout history know that they're really usually only two ways to power fear or hope, right? Like we saw a beautiful display of that with Barack Obama and hope, and we saw Trump scare people into making them feel like he's the only thing that could protect them. And so we definitely don't get there with Trump. I think that there are some encouraging data when you look at younger voters who are just first and foremost more racially diverse. And they're more racially accepting of one another when it comes to a lot of these issues in particular, but also just dealing with each other. And so I think that there, when you look at the younger generation, there are some things to be hopeful for in getting rid of this poison that has plagued our communities. And by the way also, I'll say this to Jennifer, it doesn't just hurt people of color when they're on the receiving end of race. I also feel like racism hurts why people, why people miss out on the experience of humanity in so many ways by seeking supremacy over humanity, right? And so I think that we can get out of that looking towards the younger generation that has a different perspective. Jennifer, will you respond to that? And also my question following, if you can respond to Joshua, is you said that you confront people? Do you confront people in your own social circles? I think I know the answer to that and what's their reaction? Yes, I do confront them. To what Joshua was saying about Obama and then the switch to Trump, I really saw a receding in racism in white communities when Obama was president because he was so competent and not dramatic or crazy like Trump, but then Trump started triggering something in them that was indoctrinated throughout their whole lives. And that racism about he's not quite American. And then all of a sudden white people got mad because a black man was in the White House eating off the China, sleeping in the bed. And it's like it unleashed their civility or maybe they felt like they suppressed it. But to your question about when I confront people about, I'll say, that's a racist, don't say that. And they'll say, well, no, I'm not racist. I didn't mean it that way. And I say, I want to believe that you didn't intend to be racist, but you need to be aware that those words are very hurtful for people of color. And we all have to advocate for them because if life is 100-yard dash, Josh, my husband, started on the 90-yard line. I started it on probably the 60-yard line, black man on the 40, and black women on the 10. And that shows you how in all we all should be at Kamala Harris and her confidence, her intelligence and her poise because starting a race 90 yards behind everybody else to get to the 100-yard line is quite difficult. And I know because I live in a red state, people are, they're good people here, but there is a racist default in states like this. I was educated in Oklahoma. I did not learn about the Tulsa race massacre until I was an adult. I was not taught that in public schools in Oklahoma. I learned about it like 10 years ago. I'm Fendi. Do you see, I see a difference, and I don't know if you do as a woman, I see a difference in how white women receive Kamala Harris and what they think about her than white men. And I've heard white men say some of the most vile, negative, sexually explicit, racist things about Kamala Harris and very rarely do I hear white women doing it. And I'm not saying that they don't. I've seen some on television, but I've never run into one in person. What is that? Why do you think that, what is the difference? What's going on there? I think when... And do you agree with me? First of all, sorry. I totally agree with you. And I think I have seen a huge enthusiasm among white women for Kamala Harris. And I think the overturning of Roe set the soil for people to be more open minded about that and probably buyers remorse on not voting for Hillary in 2016. And with men, there is... With white men in particular, there's just so much more gymnastics, both mental, intellectual, all of the things that a black woman has to go through to seek the approval of men. And you can look at, even in sports, how Serena Williams was treated compared to a white tennis player. It's... I don't... White men, the inherent sexism and the inherent racism is still so pronounced. But I will say, my dad, who's almost 80, Vietnam veteran, biggest Kamala supporter, you can imagine. And we see on our YouTube, we see a lot of men, not just young. Of course, my sons who are Gen Zers are all for Kamala. But you see a lot of men that are... I think that's true masculinity. They talk about masculinity a lot. You hear Jesse Waters talk about masculinity a lot. I think true masculinity is being able to see both sexist as equal. That's the true nature of masculinity, in my opinion. Josh, does this show up in the research that you see? Talk to us about that. Yeah. I mean, women in general support the Democratic Party usually, or the Democratic candidate, usually at a higher rate. Vice President Harris is upwards of 17, running 17 points hotter than Trump with women in general. And then with white women, there's been that uptick. They also just got the Taylor Swift endorsement. I don't know if the folks have heard about that, but that's probably going to do a little bit as well. So, yeah. I mean, it has... There's some... There's some credence there. I think you see... You learn more about it when you're in focus groups with white men. And I can't moderate those groups because they don't tell me their real opinions, but we'll have moderate... I'll be behind the glass. And now here are some of the more egregious things that I've ever heard. And it really, really shows that as this country moved from the valuing manufacturing drawn to information-age technology and the pain that was felt when we were buffering ourselves from one economic stage of development to another, Trump did a really good job of villainizing people of color and making folks, white folks, point at their neighbors and say that this... You were the reason why I'm feeling the pain that I'm feeling, right? And it has lasted for far too long. So I'll say qualitatively and quantitatively, I've seen a decent amount of that. Wow. Speaking of, Jennifer, I hate to play this, but I have to play it again because I have to do here, okay? Okay. Because I said I didn't think I'd ever play a soundbite from her on my program again. You talked to... Joshua mentioned Taylor Swift, which really enraged a lot of folks in Magaland. You will recognize this person. I think that she does it because she just wants the attention, right? Because she's thirsty. But there is some venom and hatred in here, and I don't know where it comes from. And I would like to get your impression of it. Okay, Jennifer? Just play it, please. So this woman is fine with his plan to take custody of the children from parents who don't want them to chop off their body parts and put them in Minnesota courts custody so the body parts can be chopped off and they can be sterilized outside the custody of their parents. That's what led Taylor Swift to endorse it. Can I tell you something? I criticized her about six months ago when she came out strongly in favor of... So she went to a fundraiser to raise money for Hamas, supposedly Palestinians, but the group that was doing the fundraising was known to funnel the money to Hamas. And I said, "People should boycott her. It was an off-handed comment. People went nuts. Some lunatic dropped a note in my personal mailbox outside of my house begging me not to boycott Taylor Swift as though I have that power. I'm allowed to criticize Taylor Swift, and I don't give a s*** who gets upset. This is disgusting. She wants to vote Harris Wall, she can do it all she wants, but to say the reason she's doing it is because of Tim Walz's stance on LGBTQ, FU, Taylor Swift, and F all of the people who want to see these children have body parts chopped off and watch them sterilize under the age of consent. And then we'll write off to their multi-gazillion-dollar mansions never to think of them again. Emily, this is unbelievable. The left is losing its mind. She signed it Taylor Swift, childless cat lady. The left is losing its mind. It looked like she lost her mind there. Here's the thing that is, I want to point out, Kamala Harris, according to Joshua, I can't wait to hear from you as well, she has to be concerned about coming off as angry black woman, but it's okay for her, this woman, I don't even want to say her name, can come off as angry, unhinged, crazy, lunatic white woman, and it's very acceptable, right? But yet, these same people demonize Kamala Harris, and we'll call her outside of her name 24/7. Jennifer, I want to know what you think. I mean, first and foremost, is she okay? I mean, like, somebody needs to go check on her, somebody needs to go to her house and check on her because she needs a wellness check. First of all, what is she talking about? This is the world where I was talking about in the MAGA bubble. You can talk about taking custody of body parts and chopping off body parts and taking custody of kids, all this crazy stuff that everybody knows is not happening. You can talk about the post birth murders that basically says that all of these American hospitals and medical doctors and scrub texts and nurses are murdering babies, yet we haven't heard about any of this in the news, and that people are eating cats and dogs. They all live in that world, and then when it's played in our world, I literally think like 30% of the country has just got to be mentally ill. I mean, and I'm not, I don't mean that to be hyperbolic. I mean, it is, that is so unhinged and so insane, and the fact that if Kamala behaved that way, if Joe Biden, an old white man behaved that way, we saw how they melted down about the debate, but that's the way Trump behaves. That's the way she behaves, and I'm like, why do they get to be crazy all the time? Maybe I want to be crazy for a day. Maybe we can just start all screaming and making crap up on here for the day. But no, the burdens always on us to be up on the high road, walking up there, and that's what we'll continue to do. But for all of those people, the high road is clearly closed, and that's just bottom feeder city over there. The laughable part, remember she's, you know, claiming that she was just like advocate for women when behind the scenes, I'm not quite so sure that that's true after the whole Roger Alesing. And what happened to her standing up for women, Kamala Harris, what happened to her standing up for women and not demonizing women, Taylor Swift, because she said for one, you know, she obviously hates Kamala Harris, but then she said, go F, like you can go F yourself or whatever she said to Taylor Swift. How is that? How is that being supportive of women? She can disagree with her without calling her out of her name. I'm just going to say, jealous party of one, your table's now available, jealous party of one, your table's now available, I mean, come on, that was static, she's eaten up with jealousy. It's as clear as the nose on my face, had it with that woman. You need to do that on your show, I've had it with I've had it with crazy unhinged blonde ladies, but you're not. There's a strong argument to be made that I would fall into that category, but we'll leave that up to your subscribers. Josh, I know you on a way in on this because you were reacting a certain kind of way when you heard that. Yeah, I mean, I think it really just shows, you know, I went to school, I don't talk about this. I'm from the west side of Chicago. I went to college in South Dakota, right? So I've been in the red states with the life folks, right? And during that time period, when you would talk to voters, they would talk frequently about their vote being based off of Trump's position on the southern border. Now, I don't know if you've seen a map, but South Dakota is not near the southern border. And but it was real though, the fear that they were feeling it wasn't it wasn't present, but you know, they cry and they would like it was and that's when I realized that fear and anger are part of the ingredients to a candidate like Trump. We asked this in surveys, what are the feelings you're leading into this election with? We give a bunch of options, happiness, hope, anger, fear, 41% of folks that said that they were going to vote for Trump say that they're leading with the feeling of fear. They're afraid 28% say, say anger. And honestly, those numbers were kind of similar under with Joe Biden as well. It wasn't until Vice President Harris entered the conversation till we see a candidate that 39% say that they're leading with hope, right? And so it's just a it's a beautiful contrast from what's over there to what's over here. And then they're too cute by half Jennifer with a deliberate mispronunciation of her name because it's so easy to say her name, comma in a sentence and law, but they got to go with that Kamala. I wonder if that's the other way rise her because it sounds more Indian and more foreign. I think any time they can demean or belittle specifically a person of color, there's always a jump on to do that. If you go back to my story about my friend that thought it would be really cute and just a real knee slapper to call Air Force one, Afro one, and how racist that is. And I think that these are microaggressions mispronouncing her name. And if I had to sit around and listen to Jesse Waters and that woman whom you just played and Sean Hannity, I'd be mad all the time too. But I think I say this all the time to my friends in Oklahoma City that live in a gated community in the suburbs and have never fallen prey to crime in their entire lives. They're wound up like cheap clocks over the border and this violent crime. And I'm like, what's the last time you feel prey to crime? How is the border impacting your gated community or the ambushing that HOA? What's going on there? There's no answer for it. But there's some something that this throws out that feeds into this white entitlement. And we are entitled white people feel like they're entitled to the world to be angry. I don't know. I just, I know what it is because I grew up around it and I know people like this. But I'm also like, come on, turn off Fox. Quit listening to that Cuckoo for Cocoa Puff podcaster. I mean, you'd be mad all the time if you heard that crap 24/7, 365. I'm mad just after listening to that. Look, I got to tell you, I hadn't watched Fox News in a long time because it had gone so Cuckoo Cocoa Puffs crazy. And I used to watch because I thought, you know, I did not very many truthful things came out of their mouths, but they're great performers, right? And they can be great performers in a way that Donald Trump can be a great performer because they don't have to abide by facts and truth. So they can just sort of say whatever they want and get away with it. There's no canceling them. Nobody gets mad. You know, they can say, they can call her, you know, the Hock To a Girl, right? The New Hock To a Girl and still have a job the next day. Right. That doesn't happen for other media. You would be pulled off the air. By the way, you don't like my music who's in the chat, says to you, Jennifer, Afro One sounds kind of badass. I was thinking at the whole time, I was like, did that Hock To a Girl in there? I think if a black person named it that and as a way to prop up the black community, but this was a person being racist and trying to diminish his accomplishments, but I agree, it could be a great album. It could be. I mean, maybe you can drop an album, Afro One, Jennifer, people are loving you in the comments. They're loving you, Joshua too. Joshua. What's up, shy town? Says Sonya C. And Jennifer, they're loving you. They are. Let's see. I'm looking at Josh's face. LOL. Michael Riley as you're talking about this Nina Hernandez and Ms. Pronunciation VP Harris's name is intentional. Of course, it's intentional. And then there are folks who are in the chat who are saying, Jennifer, that they hear it all the time, they experience what you're saying all the time about the language thing, about people saying things to their white brothers and sisters that they wouldn't say to an African-American and the company of African-Americans. And it says a lot that you, Joshua, that you can't be a part of even those focus groups because of the craziness. Runes of data, I tell my clients, they're like, oh, can you moderate this? I'm like, no, you won't get anything out of it. You won't get anything real. Really? Yeah. We got to hire the white moderators so that they can start saying how they really feel about people of color. Yeah. It's not funny. That is, that's very interesting. That's really interesting. That's why I say, I don't know if you guys saw some of the work that I did as I was going to the convention because I got to speak to people about who they were going to vote for, what they thought about, you know, how the election was going. And they said things to me that they said that they wouldn't say to other people because they felt like they knew me. And so I'm wondering if those people who, those black men who are saying that they are going to support Donald Trump, some of the black women, some of the white women who said they were going to support Donald Trump, I'm wondering if those people are even picked up and polling. My concern is that it's sort of a, you know, a hidden vote possibly for Donald Trump that people may be shocked come election day. What do you say to that, Joshua? There are some things that we can do to lessen the folks that we're missing. And there are some things that we can do to actually catch implicit bias with our surveys. We do them often at hit strategies. But to a certain extent, I say it all the time, you know, people lie to the therapist, people lie to their pollsters, right? Like it does happen. And so, you know, we can, we can be as good as we are at looking for non-response bias, up and down, waiting the data, but there are people that are just, it's called social desirability bias. They know that they're going to vote a little bit differently, but they're looking at that poll and they can't even get themselves to say, I'm going to vote for Trump, but they're going to. You think even among, my concern is that those black men are not being picked up and polling. Because black women are not being picked up and polling because, I mean, I've never or once had someone asked me to do a survey for Nielsen or twice. That's what I'm saying. Maybe, maybe those people aren't being picked up, so the polling is not right. The thing that we see often when we get, when we finally do get some of those black men in focus troops, in dyads, triads, qua boards, is there is a among the ones that like Donald Trump, they are actually less likely to participate in elections and even be registered to vote right now. That does not mean that we still won't see a decent amount of black men voted for Donald Trump, but there's a higher percentage of folks that aren't registered to vote and don't vote at all when we're looking at a black man that have a favorability of Donald Trump. I will actually say though, the gender gap between black folks is a lot smaller than the generational gap. Older black voters see Trump and Harris very differently than younger black voters, particularly black men, and so that's actually an area that we're looking at a lot more. Explain that. How do they see them differently? Younger black men are not as mobilized by the threat of Trump. They see the racism. They don't particularly like it, but it's not a reason for them to vote for Democrats. They're just significantly more likely to chop it up to the bitterness of politics, and unfortunately some of the folks that were more likely to get things like the stimulus check, right? And don't know that that was actually given to them by Democratic Congress. Just run with the one or two things that they, yeah, and as closely they run with the one or two things that they saw on social media and then think that they have an affinity for Donald Trump. Yeah, because his name is on the check, but Joe Biden also has a stimulus check. He just didn't put his name on it as he goes, not big and other things are not that small. So listen, gang, I want to play this and I don't want to put, I don't want to bias you in any certain way. I don't want to put my thumb on the scale. But Joe Biden was out and about and he was with some Trump supporters. He ran into them and I want to play this moment and I want to know what you think of it. Okay. Here it is. I know you know, I know you know, you know, you know, you know, all right, I'm a young guy. You know, here's mine. The guys that grew up with the boys, one was neighborhood. Yeah. There you go, man. I need that hat. Want my other grab? Hell no. You know, my name. Come on. I ain't going that far. Yeah. I'm going that far. Yeah. You're going to do a selfie. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey. I'm proud of you now. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. What's the number? No eating dogs and cats. Hey, they're good. Thank you. They're good. Oh my gosh. Okay. Jennifer, what do you think? You know, it reminds me of an older era in politics where somebody could do that put on the Trump hat and joke around and it'd be fine. But in today's day, I think of Kamala Harris as people in the DNC and everybody going, oh, oh God, no, we put on the hat where he was just joking around having fun talking to somebody who's, you know, totally in the maggot cult. They had a friendly conversation, friendly banter kind of like it reminded me of like a John McCain moment, you know, when he was out when he was kind of up against all of these crazies and he'd be like, no, no, no ma'am. That's not, that's not what's going on here. But I just have such a fondness for Joe Biden because I live in a red state. And when he won, I thought, oh my God, finally, we're going to have a blue president to protect us from the worst impulses of these red state politicians. And when he won, I just felt utter joy. And I think he's had a very consequential presidency. And now that he's a lame duck, I hope he just starts quacking and signing executive orders and doing all sorts of stuff and just becomes unleashed with his pen. I'm here for it. I am seated. I cannot wait. He's got new powers from the Supreme Court. This is why I should never be a politician. I'd be like, Clarence Thomas, you're fired out. Hit the bricks. Alito out. Hit the bricks. Your wife's a nut. Tell her I said so. I mean, I just, but anyway, that's why I'm a loud mouth podcaster with a microphone and not in politics. Just keep signing. Just keep signing those executive orders. Josh, what'd you think of that moment? I was really conflicted watching it. Obviously, it's hard to not miss the days where we could just have those conversations. I grew up in the Bush era and folks hated Bush and said that he was the devil and Mitt Romney was the devil. And I'm realizing like, we weren't there yet. We weren't at a place where we had actual devils. We weren't at king devil yet. I mean, I definitely have like an affinity and want us to go back there. I also think like looking at the kids back there, I just think about real things with that. What that Trump hat means. Right. We talk about school shootings. We talk about universal lunch. We talk about health care with one of those kids grows up to be queer. I mean, that Trump hat means a lot. And I don't know how I feel about like the cordial nature of just being like, Oh, sometimes we just switch team. You know what I mean? So I don't know. I don't know how I feel about it. No, no, that's your feelings or your feelings and that we allow people to have their feelings. I'm with you. And I saw your face. I was torn about it. And then I was like, they're making fun of the president. I thought that a little bit, but I like to see that he can. He's he's a he's a good old fashioned politician. Right. Go out and shake hands and meet with the people, even if you don't agree with me. So I, you know, I like that part of it, but I agree with you on the hat. It's it's tough to watch because of that hat. At least it. Well, I think it just said Trump, at least it wasn't a make America great again hat, which really sort of conjures up certain things for folks. But yeah, I feel you. Anything else you guys want to say loud, mouth, mouth, mouth, mouth, podcast or Jennifer? And where's pumps? Where's your partner? She too good for us. Do you want to hear the truth? Do you want to hear the real truth? Okay. So we are leaving on Saturday to fly to Pennsylvania to get on the Kamala Harris reproductive freedom tour bus and pumps had an appointment with her lash, her eyelash girls. She gets like eyelash extensions. And when you're a producer, call it. I go, Oh my God, it's on lemon, whom I'm madly in love with. The only thing preventing us from being together is my husband, his husband and his sexuality. Otherwise we would be the happiest couple in America. And she was like, Oh my gosh, she looks at her schedule. She was like, I have my lashes and they have to look good for the tour bus. I'm like, I'm telling, I'm going to title tell the Don Lemon that your lashes are more important, which means I'm going to be number one crush of Don Lemon. Well, Jennifer, you never know. I'm just saying you never know, never say never. You guys are the best. Thank you so much. Best of luck to you. Good luck on the tour. Joshua, best of luck to you. I hope I see you. I get to see you before I leave DC. If you have a chance to come by my book signing tonight, politics and prose. I would love to have you. And Jennifer, make sure you get copies. Okay. Came out yesterday. I once was lost. My search for God in America by this ugly guy on the cover named Don Lemon. So I'll make sure you guys all right. And thank you. Thanks everyone. Thanks to all the subscribers who are out in the chat. I appreciate you joining us. I have to run because I'm supposed to be at this book signing in 30 minutes. And I have a 40 minute car ride ahead of me. So I'm already late. So I'll see you guys tomorrow. Thank you for joining us. Thank you, Jennifer. Thank you, Joshua. You guys have a great evening. Happy safe and love to all the lemon heads. And I thank you for being part of the lemon nation. I'll see you guys tomorrow. Good night, everybody. Thank you.
