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Young Israel of Westside Shiurim

Shabbos 71

  1. In general, if someone does the same sin twice in one lapse of awareness, one Korban suffices for both actions.

  2. On Shabbos, there are two different forms of שוגג- forgetting Shabbos and forgetting that a particular melocho is assur. Theoretically, one can perform the same melocho twice without realizing he sinned but with both forms of Shogeg. The case is someone was initially aware harvesting is forbidden but unaware it was Shabbos and they harvested. Subsequently, they remembered it was Shabbos but somehow forgot that harvesting is assur, and they harvested again. Can both of those sins be covered by the same Korban bc there was no awareness of sin in the middle, or do we say that different forms of Shogeg cannot he covered by the same Korban? This is a dispute with Abaye/rava vs. R Zeira.

  3. R Zeira holds different forms of Shogeg do not combine and one would bring two seperate korbanos in the above scenario. Likewise, if someone harvested half a figs size (minimum size for obligation on Shabbos) without awareness of Shabbos and another half dig without awareness of melocho being assur, the two forms of Shogeg do not combine and they are not obligated at all.

  4. Abaye and Rava hold the two forms of Shogeg do combine. A confusing scenario that can occur is when first someone is unaware it’s Shabbos and they do two separate melochos (call it harvesting and grinding). They subsequently realize it’s Shabbos but forget these melochos are assur so they do both again. If they first become aware of the first set of sins and designate a single Korban (forgetting Shabbos requires only one Korban for multiple melochos) they don’t have to bring any more Korbanos when they become aware of the second set of sins. They are automatically included in the first Korban. However, if they became aware of the second set first and designated a Korban for one. (Let’s say harvesting) When they eventually become aware of the first set of sins, the first harvesting is automatically included in the Korban. But could the grinding be included? In this case, the designation of the Korban was for “harvesting” specially (forgetting melochos requires Korban for each melocho) so maybe grinding can’t be included. However, the first grinding is included thru a principle called גרירה- dragging. Once the first harvesting is included the grinding is there as well. Abaye takes this one step further and says once the first grinding is included, the second grinding is also automatically included!

  5. Another example of גרירה would be if someone eats two כזית of forbidden fat. They find out the first זית was forbidden but they are still unaware of the second one. Then they eat a third זית and then become aware that 2 and 3 were sins. 1 and 2 were one lapse of awareness and 2 and 3 were one lapse of awarensss, but 1 and 3 were not. If someone designated a Korban for 2, both 1 and 3 are included. But if the Korban is designated for 1 or 3, how can the other be included? Through גרירה- once 2 is included, the other one will automatically be dragged as well.

  6. R yehoshua holds different types of taste divide sins. If someone ate fat that is fried, it would not combine with another eating of fat that is baked.

  7. If someone ate two כזית of forbidden fat and then found out about one but not the other, R Yochanan holds the ידיעה now divides as the knowledge is a trigger for Korban for first כזית. If they find out about the second כזית, a second Korban is required. Reish lakish diagrees and says one Korban suffices for both. If one already designated a Korban for first כזית, Reish Lakish May possibly still say one Korban suffices.

Broadcast on:
15 May 2020