The Pink Smoke podcast
An Epilogue to The Pink Smoke's time at the Toronto International Film Festival
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All good things must come to an end. Hosts John Cribbs and Christopher Funderburg are joined by Marcus Pinn to discuss their memories of attending the Toronto International Film Festival over the course of twenty years. This set of personal reminiscences is not necessarily intended for general audiences; this is the deepest of Pink Smoke deep cuts. Their thoughts on two decades of cinema and one of the premiere international film festivals are intertwined with a discussion of poutine, junk shops selling rare novelizations, the Brass Rail and how much fun it is to bust Pinn’s chops over his love of To The Wonder.
They talk their favorite films they saw at the festival, their most memorable experiences, the changes to the festival throughout the years, the best years, the worst years, food poisoning, Andrew Wilson, Sportos in Batavia New York, crank-call party mix-tapes and, of course, the Eagles’ sudden and unexpected transition from the Kevin Kolb era to the Michael Vick era.
A tribute to one of the most important film festivals in the world and the trio’s time spent there.
The Pink Smoke site: www.thepinksmoke.com
The Pink Smoke on X: twitter.com/thepinksmoke
Christopher Funderburg on X: twitter.com/cfunderburg
John Cribbs on X: twitter.com/TheLastMachine
Intro music: Unleash the Bastards / “Tea for Two” Outro music: Marcus Pinn / “Vegas”
- Broadcast on:
- 17 Sep 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
[Music] So the first thing that needs to be said about this episode is that John Krubs did not want to do it. When I pitched it to him, he was like, no, no, and made a really sour face. But what I wanted to do is I've been over the span of 20 years, I've been going to the Toronto Film Festival, and our most recent wrap-up episode, if you've listened to it, it'll be up before this one, is extremely negative. Extremely negative about the festival, extremely negative about the state of cinema. And I don't really feel that way about TIFF or Toronto. And I sort of wanted to do remembrance, because we're not going to go to Toronto next year. I'm going to go to a different festival. We're just going to do something different, change it up, different adventure. But I did sort of want to look back at the 20 years of the festival, and this episode, it should be warned. I think it's a little more like, you know, for advanced studies, for experts only. It's going to be us reminiscing about our experiences there, more than some serious look breaking down the history of the festival over the span of time. I think it's just more like remembering, remembering going to the festival with this time. So is that your understanding of what we're doing? I'm joined by my co-host, the great John Benjamin Cribbs and my other host, Marcus Penn. He's not the other buddy, our compatriot, our pink smoke third mic, Marcus Penn. John, you didn't want to do this? Don't tell them, Chris, how you got me to do it. How you convinced me to do it? I don't remember. You said what Marcus was on the episode. I was like, I'll do it if Marcus is there. Absolutely. 20 years at TIFF, come on, man. I mean, I'm in 10 of them on and off. Well, the thing is that just this particular time up there was just such a downer for me that I was like, I don't want to talk more TIFF than I have to. And then Chris said, well, what about Marcus on the episode? And I thought, immediately thought, Marcus and Toronto, holy shit, you're right. 20 years, it's been so much fun. And just think about Marcus being there, immediately cheered me up. And I thought, let's do it. Absolutely. I used to always cheer me up. Absolutely. Every single year. It's funny because, you know, we then, after I pitched it, we then drove back from TIFF to, you know, Toronto to Poughkeepsie to New York for me. And, and there's horrible traffic. We stopped in Buffalo to get chicken wings because we never stopped in Buffalo. And I said, if this is our last time going to TIFF, is there anything we want to do in Toronto? And we sort of said, no, just see the movies. And then we passed Buffalo. I said, well, this is really going to be our last fucking time going anywhere near Buffalo for a while. So let's go and get some real Buffalo wings from from look up a place went to Gabriel's gate. But so it was this long trip home. And we reminisced a ton on that trip. So I feel like how God, we already did the episode on that fucking nine and a half hour car ride. Back from Toronto. And there was mostly just details. I was like, wait, what year was that? Who was there? That particular festival? What was planned? Who was the Eagles quarterback that year? That was not even McNabb was coming off the knee injury. Did he play on opening day? I'm not sure in 2008. Yeah, just to take people through the history and why we started going up to TIFF and where this comes from. Right. When I was younger, I worked as a programmer for a, um, a repertory theater called the Jacob Burns Film Center. I normally go out of my way not to say their name or talk about them on here. But only recently I've noticed that they've started they like show like. Spiderman three and shit like they're not a real repertory theater anymore. So I feel like I've achieved my victory. They are a joke. I'm still here with integrity and they're showing, you know, fucking step brothers or what the hell ever. I know that firsthand for about a year and a half. I drove past it every day. We just, well, not just missed each other. But when I used to work up in Pleasantville up the street from that theater, I would drive by and then I didn't pay attention. Then at one point, I was like, wait, what? Oh, you're showing that? It was like double take showing the minions movie. That kind of thing. The Northman. Uh, Miss Daisy goes to. I'm like, I'm like, I forgot the name. It was like with actually it was the Shirley Manville Leslie Manville movie, whatever. Oh, they're showing different stuff now. Yeah, but so I feel no longer like, hey, they're doing their thing. I'm not trying to ride on their. Coattails by saying I was the very important programmer there. You know, I felt like I'm doing my own thing. And since I survived doing my own thing in there, you know, dead. Now I feel more comfortable saying Jacob Burns film center is where I programmed. Through its, you know, golden age, but in 2004. I started working there and the two people who were my bosses who were the programmers above me there. It was just a programming assistant at that time went up and they said that they were only going to stay for the first half of the festival and that if I wanted to come up Monday, the Monday night after the weekend. That I could come up and take one of their industry passes and use it to go into screenings. This is of course, but not something you're supposed to do at all. Your photos also on the past and I looked nothing like the slight little Italian lady, you know, was very skinny or the, you know, the bald middle aged man that were on the passes that I used to go in the festival. But so I went myself in 2004, right? And stayed in a youth hostel because I didn't have any money because it was paid terribly there. And I drew and I flew up that year. I flew up in the plane and went on my own to it and did the festival. And then in the springtime, I went to Hot Docs, which is the Toronto documentary festival again and I went on my own and I drove this time. And again, stayed in a hostel and I had no money. And in fact, I had so little money, I slept in my car a couple of the days and the burns was unwilling to pay me for any of this. I sort of went on my own dime. They were like generously like, Hey, if you can get up there, you can can use our passes and go on your own dime if you want to do this and have like a little, I guess, paid work vacation for it. But got nothing got reimbursed for nothing. And when I went to Hot Docs, I was like sleeping in my car and I had gotten a job. I had gone to art school and I didn't want to work in an office and I didn't want to be a programmer. And I was having like an existential crisis. I was super depressed and miserable of the second part of it. And I said to John and our friend, Paul Cooney, who were your friends with at the time. Hey, when I go again next year in September, you guys need to come with me. You should come with me because I can't go and do this on my own again. You guys need to come up for this. And in fact, you had invited me in 2004, you're like, come up with me. You won't have a pass. Yeah, but you'll get to see what the festival's about, you know, we can hang out and watch football and have a good time. And I was like, I got work. I can't, I can't bail on work. But I actually walked away from work. I walked out of the office on a particularly bad day and started to walk home thinking, I'm going to quit right now. And I'm going to go to Toronto with Chris. Like, I'm just going to walk away from it on that on that pissed off. And at the last minute was like, all right, actually, no, I got to be responsible. I got to go back to work. But it's funny because it was, it did set up the following year, 2005, when we all got together and we made movies together. You me and our friends quit our jobs and we all got together and we made some new me. I didn't quit my job. But yeah, well, you left your job for a period to. They gave me a second. They gave me. It's a bad. Whatever. Sure. Sure. And so, you know, it set up, at least me being ready to be like, leave the job and do something that I actually want to do. So, no, that was healthy. That's good. And it started our tradition of because some people don't necessarily aren't necessarily well funded that we would drive up every year, because, you know, Paul was a deadbeat. I don't know how to describe them any better than that. Paul just sort of leached off of people his entire adult life, whether it was his parents or his rich friends. And he definitely wasn't going to get a plane ticket or even a bus ticket to go up there. So if he was coming up, he had to be driven up by me and put up by me there. With you, John, I think that you were in kind of not great financial straits the first year either. And so it started the tradition of driving up and driving back and having it be like a road trip. And because it was on Mondays, we would go up that the tradition became, I would go into work on Monday at the Burns. You guys would come meet me up in Westchester and Pleasantville. And then we'd drive up to Toronto together and we'd start the drive. We drive for a couple hours, then we'd stop. Go watch the Monday night football game, which in 2005 happened to be the Eagles playing the Atlanta Falcons. This was their first game after the 2004 Super Bowl, the beginning of the notoriously snake bitten in a negative 2005 season. This is the Falcons game where Jeremiah Trotter was ejected, pregame, pro bowl, all time Eagles. Great. Jeremiah Trotter was ejected for getting in a fight with like the third string Falcons quarter back. And the Eagles went on to lose a frustrating 14 to 10 loss to the Falcons on the road, beginning this season that could just never get on track. One of the one of the more notorious Eagles seasons. And we stopped in a little place called Little Falls and watched it and then we would drive through the night to get there. And again, we were destitute. So it was always. It was always about saving as much money as possible. So saving on the hotel for that first night was always sort of part of the deal part of the plan is we'll drive overnight to avoid the awful traffic between Hamilton and Toronto. And so I think we learned that after the first festival when we left during the day for people who have not done this drive. There's a city in Canada called Hamilton. I know Canadians will be shocked to hear that most Americans have never heard of Hamilton and the Hamilton wide wildcats. And it's like it's not really a suburb, Toronto. It's probably an hour away, maybe 45 minutes. And there is just a non stop block of traffic between Toronto and Hamilton any time of day except the middle of the night. So avoiding that traffic as well became became part of it. But it was like a nighttime trip and we would sort of maximize our money on like going overnight leaving at night. And so that sort of became the tradition of how we did this as I would win up, get the industry pass for half the festival from from Brian Ackerman or lowest, you know, and use their pass and sort of go to see the movies and then you started in 2005, you and Paul. And basically, it was you and Paul would come with me, you always, you know, I don't, I almost always anytime that I went up you when you were there. I don't think I ever went up without you. Did I was there ever a year that I went that you didn't. There was one year with Marcus and Paul and I went without you. That's true. And I was going to say and then in 2018 it was just me and John. No, 2019. Yeah. And I'd go out of the hospital just me and John. So when did you, Marcus, how did we rope you into this because you're one, you're one of my best friends, one of my favorite people. But I didn't meet you till like my mid 30s, early 30s, you know, right. Is that about early early 30s 2006. Yeah. So I've been going to this for a decade. What was the process of when did we rope you in? How did you just? I knew you guys for a couple years then after my transplant, which was in 2007. And then when I got out of the hospital, 2008, I think it's when we started hanging out more. I just got to like know you more. But then you disappeared again because you had your son and everything. And like John had moved. And then, you know, I've said this before, it was just like me and Alan hanging out without you guys. And it was one of those things. Right. This feels weird. He's like your friend. But in any way, our friend, Alan Cordell, the great music video director Alan Cordell. During that time, I used to, I, I, outside of just writing stuff from the pink smoke, I used to consume your guys's stuff all the time, like random stuff, like just, oh, I've never heard of this movie before. Or, oh, I have heard of this movie. I know this movie. Well, what do they think about it? And you should always read your Toronto reviews. And then in 2010, they did this like crazy clear to me, clear to me retrospective. And I bumped into you in the bathroom at the IFC center. I was like, Oh, Chris, I haven't seen you in like a year and a half. And then we like got reacquainted that year, especially reading your 2010 Toronto review. I remember I was like really into that one. That, that, that's when we sit out the most. It's like, Oh, it'd be cool to go there. I've never been to Canada. And then one of you just kind of asked me. And then you were like, it's like a long drive. It's kind of brutal. I was like, no, no, I like if I have people in the car with me, I'll take a long drive. I don't care. So. In 2011, I just took the time off from my job. I took the Metro North up to the Jacob Burns film center to meet you guys. And then we drove up. And for the next 10 years, I missed a couple of years, but for the next decade, I was going to Toronto with you guys. Yeah. That was fun. Did you drive up with us that first year? I had this like memory of like meeting you up there already. No, so I'm saying I took the Metro North Jacob Burns. I met you guys were there waiting for me and we drove up the rest of the way. Because that would have been the year that my son's mother came with us in 2000. That was the first year. Yes. And Paul lived up in Toronto at that time. Paul met like people, Paul was a very social guy. And he like met people who like ran a t-shirt shop and he just started living with them. So he was in Toronto for at least part of it living. Oh, I never understood. I never realized that. I never, I did not realize that. Yeah. And then they all like moved to Florida. I might be getting his life story wrong. And he was living in Florida with them to down there. So that was also a big meeting. Paul was a big deal for me then, because we had become friendly through, you know, well, we went, we literally, we went from my space to Facebook, always messaging, just like, we didn't know each other, but we talked a lot of shit to each other. We just immediately had that type of like friendship and then meeting him in person was just like, Oh, I've, I've never met you in person. So that was another, that was like a big deal for me. Yeah. And it's not awesome. So go ahead. No, please. No, I was going to say, it was also, I just wanted to point out as far as like the, the situation at the beginning, you would always stay elsewhere. John, when I started going, like the first year, John Paul and I stayed in a hostel together. And then my work finally started putting me up in a hotel, right? And, or I guess they had the hotel and then we would take over the hotel room from them. But John was somebody I lived with in college. And one of my best oldest friends. So John and I, even now, even this year, we've always split a hotel, even when we're getting like a nice big room in a fancy hotel. Now, like we always split the shit. But I felt like, you know, like you needed your own place. So there was a little bit of like so much of my memories are like just like trip with John and like we're, we're living together. Or a week, you know, but you always were off at your own at the beginning. Yeah, it was this, they remembered me. I stayed with them on and off too. It was this Indian family. It was a father, a wife and a son. They just bought this like second house. And it did because it was the Toronto House. It was three floors, a bunch of rooms. And it was just like everyone that stayed there during that time. It's all going to Toronto. And then when John and I stayed there in 2019, I hadn't stayed there. It had been seven years since I had been back to that place. I didn't end up staying with you guys. And he remembered me and he was a really nice guy. Oh, that's really, yeah. It was really far. And I remember the price per night. I was like, something seems too good to be true. And I was like, is this like, is this a rough, rough neighborhood? Yeah, the hardest neighborhood in Toronto. Well, that's the thing to be fair. Some of the folks that I knew from Toronto were just like, oh, yeah, that neighborhood's a little sketchy and it was just like, no, it doesn't. It's just like the trees aren't nice. Like that's literally all that was wrong with that. And there was literally nothing wrong with it. It was a nice walk to and from. It was one of those things though where if I forgot something or I'm just, I'm not going back on and off throughout the day. It was pretty far from, you know, there were people sitting on the stoops out front. No, literally, literally. Yeah. And I also, I should mention that the way the festival works, where you don't know the press and industry screenings have their own separate schedule of films. There's public screenings that are like all the time at a bunch of theaters all around the city. And then there are press and industry screenings, which are first come for surveys as you line up for them. And they are all consolidated in a handful of theaters when we originally started going. They were in the Cineplex Odeon in the Cumberland for was that the name of that place the Cumberland for. So at a part of Toronto over there, if you know the city by the by the mall over there. And it was, and it felt like more in the town. You know what I mean, it felt like more and just like a regular part of Toronto and you would go our hotel. Our hotel, our hostel was very far from it. And the hostel was a pain in the ass to get over there to these few theaters where they would do press and industry screenings. And then the hotel we were put up in was across the street from the brass rail world famous brass rail. Toronto strip club brass rail. We were right across the street from that are from the back entrance to that. And that's where we stayed every time in this hotel behind the brass rail go to the Cineplex Odeon. Walk over to the Cumberland. There was an amazing, amazing hot dog card in between where you could get just the best hot sausages in the world. And I'd play in my pay for him in my, you know, crazy Canadian monopoly money and the big old coins they got. And the Cineplex Odeon was in a little mall itself. And it was like a nice setup over there. At some point, I think in 2010. They opened a theater. There's a part of Toronto that's like a downtown that has a lot of like development, a lot of these sort of glass and steel skyscrapers, sort of a completely uninteresting modern architecture. You know, whenever you see like like fancy new downtowns it's in that style. And the light box was there and I'm not sure if it was the same year that the light box open that they switched to the present industry screenings being at another multiplex called the Scotia bank right around the corner from the bell light box. But very quickly the whole festival shifted down there to that part of the city, you know, very quickly after the light box open because that's like the flagship theater of TIFF of the Toronto International Film Festival. If you haven't been to the light box, it's like somebody turns, you know, an art house theater into a fancy mall. It sucks. It's a horrible place to be in the light box. It's probably my least favorite, repertory theater in the entire world. But am I getting what I will say. Yes, absolutely. I will say, you know, when Mark started joining us, that's when things really just just started to fit together for me. We've been going for five or six years. And like you said, the kind of setup was your colleagues would kind of do the first part of the festival and a lot of like the bigger films in the pressing industries line up would be at the first part of the festival. So we kind of see what was left, you know, once they left and we were able to use their passes. But we saw some great stuff. We got to see the Wallace and Gromit movie. We got to see Dear Wendy, you know, we got to see movies like Black Book in the AKA film Big Bang Love Juvenile. Just fun stuff, you know, and then Black Book I got to see. I wasn't expecting a pass that year. You I'd use your pass because you got sick. That's why I got to see Black Book at that. Well, that's, well, that's when we get into specific room minutes. It's 2006 is always a funny year. I got equal E. coli food poisoning from spinach. Right. And so you got the pass to see everything because I was stuck in the hotel room just like throwing up and shitting my brains out. And it was always funny because there was this map of where the E. coli outbreaks were happening. Right. And I had eaten the spinach in New York where part of the outbreak was happening. There are a bunch of cases in like New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania cluster. And they would show like a map on the news of where the E. coli outbreak was happening. Right. And there was like the cluster in New York. And then there was one dot up in Ontario, which was me because I had gone to the hospital and been like, I think I have this E. coli poison. They were like, you indeed do have the E. coli poisoning from this. And so you'd see like this cluster of the outbreak in New York, where I had eaten the spinach and gotten sick and then one dot in Ontario in 2006. So, of course, I felt very bad for you, but I was happy to get to see Black Book in the fountain. I was shocked. I saw anything that year. I was going through the list and I was like, Oh, I did actually go out and see, you know, the, the Miake and all the boys love Mandy Lane. And I saw some movies that year. I was quite surprised I had gotten out to do anything. I always just think of this era, though, like as an Arab discovery, because like he said, we were farther away from the theaters. So there was a lot more walking across town learning about Toronto, like Paul and I would go explore places. We go to Blue Jays games, you know, all would do all the touristy stuff. So there was like it was a nice time. It was a nice era area. Yeah, in general, to just kind of like explore and kind of check out the town and get your footing and kind of understand how the festival works. So by the time Marcus comes with us, it's like, we know that this festival is all about. And now we're like, let's just buy our own passes at this point, right? For me, anyway, I was like, I'm just going to buy my own pass and then we can go to the beginning. I can see anything I want to. And from that point on, it was just like, just do the whole festival. Why not? Well, I think the first year I think we got passes was the 2009 year. I think that's the first year we went up from the beginning and got passes because I definitely saw everything that year. And it feels that it just feels like we were there the whole time in 2000 in 2000, because that was an impression, you know, like, I have to work for the Jacob Burns in order to get a pass because I'm not industry or press. And then when you're like, we run a website, John, you can just tell them that's press. And sure enough, that was enough to get the pass going. Oh, that's another thing that yeah, I was, I never went and it's been an empire in my past. I have, I still have all my passes. They say pink smoke. I remember, yeah, I was like, Oh, isn't like the way Chris explained to me. I was like, I don't think I'm going to get in. I remember like, because I had never done, you know, all I knew was the, was the New York Film Festival, which was just like, I would wait in line at like six in the morning and get the early and get my tickets. And I was like, Oh, what if they reject me and then you're and Chris, no, no, you should be fine. And yeah, it was under pressing industry. Yeah, that's another important thing to. Yeah. They were, they were nice to us. They were nice to us. If they had been jerks, I would have been like, this is a Jacob Burns stuff, like a fucking liar. Um, and once you're in, and then, and once you're in, it's like you're in, you just, you don't ever have to like try to get except, except I'm using your books, except it again once you get in once it's, you know. Yeah, no, remember you the next year. So it's, you're fine. You're good. Yeah. You're indoctrinated. Yeah, and that it's, and it is, it's, you know, I don't think we did anything legitimate. We are film writers and film programmers and filmmakers. I don't think that there was any, any measure of dishonesty to anything we were doing apart from my bosses, giving me their passes. That was dishonest and they shouldn't have done that. You know, I'm like a 24 year old kid, 23 year old kid just doing what my boss is telling me at that point. So be angry at them. If they still have careers, who knows, I have no idea what those people are up to now. Leave me alone. Yeah, so let's dig into the movies a little bit. And I was sort of going through, you know, I feel like it's front heavy. It's Chris Funderberg heavy at the front before we get, get to Marcus. So maybe we change it up a little. What are your memories of Marcus of your first year? Like, do you remember what movies you saw? Do you remember the experience of it? Do you remember which theaters was it in? Was it in Scotia Bank or was it in most part? I only saw in 2011, I saw God bless America at the at the Tiffville light box. Oh, that was one of the best screenings. Yes. Yeah. And I saw La Havre at the weird little other special theater, like a way for like close to Dundas Square. Yeah, they don't do screenings at that one. Right. But everything else is like reasonably located. Yeah. Like near near the Cineplex Odeon. When they switched about light box, it was like, why are we going all the fucking way over there? Right. And then there was that other random, you know, it was like a local community college that had like where John, you and I saw Patterson in 2016. Yeah, I think that's why I saw the Borat screening in 2006. Right. Yes, no. I didn't see Borat there. So, oh, you remember your memory. It was in the projector broke and he got up and did like a routine. And like Michael Moore was that Michael when it first broke Michael Moore got up and was like, I'm going to handle this. And everybody in the audience was like, what are you going to do? What do you have to do with this movie? And he like went up to the booth. It is really strange memory. But then Borat got a sassa Baron Cohen got up in character and like gave like an impromptu interview performance. It was very memorable fucking fucking screening. But no, but 2011, I remember specifically because I remember thinking, oh, this was, this is a sign. It's the new Todd Solons, the new Andrea Arnold, the new Lynn Ramsey, the new Lars Von Trier, like all the stuff that like, oh, this is stuff that like I would like and I ended up not really liking three of those things and eventually slowly coming around to Mel and Colli to the Lars Von Trier. Mel is as best movie. I know, but I remember specifically, I didn't, I didn't not like it. It was just like, oh, I don't know. And then the more I watched it and watched it and watched it as the years when I was like, oh, no, I really like this movie a lot. No, but Alps, I think Alps stands out the most to me. That was a great year. That movie had a lot of drive curveballs like Kotoko and life without principal and chicken with plums. Movies that I don't know what their recommendations are that are like, those are great movies. That movie felt like all of the like second movies that were perceived as being second tier like really came through for me. That's how I remember chicken with plums is one you were talking about the most there. I wish and killer Joe I saw up there. Oh, killer Joe. Oh, and the skin I live. Oh wait, the, the album. Yeah, yes. Can I live it? Yeah. And I remember to, I had seen drive a few weeks before I went to Toronto because you hooked up a screening for me through your job through Jacob Burns. So I had seen drive, but I saw it again there. It was fun to see it with like a full crowd because I, I still like that movie. Yeah, but I just remember being so disappointed with me to talk about Kevin Dark Horse. I, I, I, when I first saw it, it was like, oh, it's fine. I just wanted something more. But in 2024, I just really dislike them. Like, like, I don't like it at all. Like, I really, really don't like that movie. I will say though, I have such great memories, such great nostalgia for us talking about, we need to talk about Kevin after we saw the movie. Yeah. To me, the movie of the festival was Marcus complaining and making fun of, we need to talk about Kevin. That's like the festival movie of the, that's that year's Donnie Brook. It's the movie just like every, every joke was run through. We need to talk about Kevin. It was the conduit through which we made fun of the movies. It was so much different from her other two movies. And whether you're Lynn Renzi Finn or not, I am. I love Rat Catcher. I love Marvin Keller. And I also love it for her music selections. I'm a big, like, I think she has something with like warp records because warp records pretty much provided the soundtrack for Marvin Keller. But it's also a lot of like trippy, just post-electronic music for, for Marvin Keller, also from the, like, late 60s. And I was just expecting something good. And it had also been a decade. It had been 10 years since she had released the movie. So it was like a big deal. And then it just ended up being like, what is this thing? You know, but I also, I also remember you with that festival. You saw manger Lazar. We were immediately like, we were like, don't go to the Canadian movies. Right? And I'm just thinking about going through the 2004 list. I remember going through the booklet and being like, trying to make sense of the Canadian movies like I was just now looking at the list. Again, I completely forgotten this movie called It's All Gone Pete Tong. Right? Which is a Canadian movie. And that phrase means like it's all fucked up, right? And reading the descriptions of it. And it's like promoting it like it's going to be this fantastic movie. You know, and being just trying to make sense of it. Like it didn't make sense that this movie that looked overtly terrible was being talked up in this booklet. And then you learn like they have some requirement that a certain amount of their programming has to be Canadian for music. Music is like that too in Canada. I'm on the radio play. And so we were like, you were like, I'm gonna go to manger Lazar and John and I were immediately like, don't do it. I love it over there. John John Doe has the upper hand. And I loved it. And we were like, oh shit, we got to see it. To me, that was like, oh, Marcus discovered some stuff that we wouldn't have seen because we had our shields up, you know, that that's like to me, the discovery of that first festival with you as well. What's funny, because that is essentially the vibe of it. It's a sweet movie. There is a little undertone of like, you know, a guy leaving his war torn country. But now as a father and I have a kid in school, it's like, no, I want that guy arrested. For those of you who told me, I mean, it's like a guy who pretends to be a teacher. And he forges these documents and he becomes a teacher, but in reality, we find out that his wife was a teacher. That's how he knows all these lessons. And he was killed in a war torn country, but it's like, no, no, no, no, that's creepy. That's messed up. Me to be arrested. But I did like that movie a lot. Chris saying, you know, the Donnie Brook, you know, there's every year, there's just a shared, terrible experience, you know, of a lousy movie. That's a couple. So it's like 2007 becomes the redacted year, 2008 becomes the uncertainty year, you know, 2009 is the Waken Fright here. 2012 is the two, the one, remember the three, I know we were going to get, but it's, it is the two, the one, the year, but for different, well, we'll get, we'll get into that, we'll get into that, but first, but first, I just got to say, movies like three, Chris, where it's like, you just want to freaking pull your nails out watching this film. But afterwards, what's the reason? What's the reason? Tom Taik were a movie that is just bad. It's just really, really bad. The German guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk about dredging up a nightmare. And that was, you know, it's funny because what we talk about in this year's review episode is the second half of the festival. And so the first, however many years where I'm going one, two, three, four, five years, I'm going, we're just doing the second half of the festival, which is sort of where not necessarily the drugs are, but they, they front load this festival in a very, very major way. Friday through Sunday, they overload all of the movies that they think are going to be big. And the pickings get slimmer, you know, but even in those, in those early years, even the slimmer pickings, there was still a ton of interesting stuff there, like there'd be a new Tom Taik are movie, you know, and, and that kind of thing. And you take a risk on it, you know, you, you go out to take a risk on these movies. There were films to see and worth taking a risk on, which I think is the shift now. So the second half, you know, we didn't go this year, it would be unimaginable. Imagine if we showed up Tuesday morning to see movies this year. Like what, there'd be nothing. It'd be literally impossible to do the festival. In like 2007, you see sad vacation, you see import export, you see water lilies and you're like, I just discovered a new filmmaker I love. Yeah. And that's great. And then, because, you know, nobody's going to see these films. They're not Oscar front runners. They're not, you know, by huge major directors. Did we hear about before? Did we see smiley face up there? Oh, I did. Yeah, because smiley faces like that's the kind of thing you're, that's like the dream festival movie. So I didn't mean to control water lilies played a tip. Yeah, did. Oh, man, I really like them. I like the guy who did this soundtrack, Harold won. He's like a famous electronic French. He does all her movies even tip to the state, but water lilies is like an important, I remember seeing, I finally saw import exported anthology film archives. But wow, oh man, I missed recently saw it. No, no, no, no, like a couple of years after, yeah, import export was a real like. Oh, this filmmaker who's his documentary about the dog owners was the only thing I knew him from. And it was like, oh, this is a real filmmaker. That was one of the first movies that I felt like discovery of filmmakers with it and that I could actually discover things at the festival in some way, because the first few years. It was purely like going to midnight madness or filmmakers I had heard of. I felt like I stayed really in between the lines, the first few years and that that year was just all like you're saying like sad vacation and water lilies. There were just so many home runs of that filmmakers that I wasn't familiar with and hadn't heard of. Yeah, the one Marcus, the year Marcus talking about 2011. That was stacked man. I mean, that was a year we did, we did the fest. We saw five, six movies a day. There was so much great stuff in there, at least interesting, you know, even if it wasn't, you know, a home run, it was an interesting film. The first year we stayed in like a fancy hotel to we stayed in the hotel near the light box. Yeah, you guys like the year I really got put up and, and I got and they had hired people I remember. In it must have been in 2010 they had hired other people to work in programming and they went to the festival and all of those people like expensed all of their meals and every single dollar they spent in Toronto and I had always been like, because you're trying to build an independent movie theater, the theater had only been open like three months when I started working there when you're trying to build something. You're cutting every single corner and then you have the second or third wave of people who come in to a successful organization and just like milk the organization, rather than try and build it, you know, and these people were like expensing every single thing I was like, oh shit, I can do that. And 2011 was the year where it's like they're paying for a nice hotel they're paying for every single meal, you know, they're paying for every goddamn thing I do at this festival. Like this is the all expense paid trip for it that I had always never I'd been encouraged not to do before. And like you're also trying to make sure your theater lives and as a success, you know, and this was the first year that was like, we're at the mountain top, you know, I remember that first dinner we all went out to there's a photo of us at the dinner, right? That I have with with Paul and you and and and Marie son and john and everybody. And like I paid for that dinner. I don't know if you guys remember, but that didn't I was there. Yeah, you were there and I think. Yeah, and it was that like a fancy restaurant and I was just like, this is on the burns everybody. Oh, now I do you saying that because I think you said it like that exactly like that. You did. I was going to go ahead. No, but that was 2011 to me that was like the first year where it's like I'm going the whole hog on this and not just corner cutting and penny pinching. No, speaking of 2011 I almost didn't go see Alps had it not been for you guys because that's another thing like it just gets overwhelming. I forget that like oh so and so has a film here. It's easy to forget like that one or two movies. And then you're like, what are you going to see? And you're like going to see Alps. It was like the guy that did dog tooth and I was like, oh, okay, yeah, then I want to see that. That's, you know, that's another important thing going with people because sometimes something falls to the cracks and you're like, oh, but this guy is a movie. Oh, I didn't realize so. And John was always very adventurous. John had seen dog tooth. John is the first person I ever heard. I say, you got to see dog tooth. John John to me is always like the earliest advocate of Jorgas Lanthamos that I knew. He came out of dog tooth and he was like, this is the film of the festival. You got to go see it Chris like this is the movie, you know, and so when Alps came around, I don't, you know, dog tooth, I believe was nominated for an Oscar. Maybe it was. I think it was like a golden globe. It was something like it just became really popular and you're right. It was like, but in the moment it happened, it wasn't. Alps was still like a discovery. Alps was like, you got to remember to see this guy's new. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now he's, he kind of left behind. I just watched kinds of kindness and it's like, oh, maybe you don't have it in today. I haven't been able to get through it. I watched the first time. Maybe I'll finish it up some other time. It took me, it took me two nights to get through it. Yeah, but anyway, anyway. Oh, well, it was exciting at the time. I remember that. The trilogy of years, I think just like 10, 11, 12, like just lineups were just fantastic in 2012. We're seeing post in April is Lux, active killing like someone in love, pen it sitting in pen it's for six hours Chris was incredible and being enthralled the entire time by this hour film. And then seems to bring bricks and be like, Holy shit, I like, I can't believe it. That's some fun stuff. Yeah, we have a seven cycle paths. We all had fun watching that. Maybe blues, one of the few films that we saw up there that we really like that didn't go on to have a life room 237, a more which was one of the huge films. Oh my gosh, right. Yeah, yeah. Silver linings playbook I saw there, which obviously is a psychopathic eagle span. I have a real connection to your, it's like, you know, we're talking about 2011 and I'm like, that was the first Michael Vickier the 2010 year was the year Kevin Cobb was supposed to start and got injured in the game versus the Packers that equally much, but Vick was the, it was like the 2011. That's where they really beat the shit out of the Rams on opening day and everybody bought into Vic but I hated him as like a human being so I didn't really want to root for the Vick Eagles. So I sort of taken a didn't really enjoy it. And then, you know, going through the years like that so silver linings playbook was a movie where I was like, I'm blinded to whatever quality level this movie is because it's about me. DeShawn Jackson is the man. You know, but there was a, that was, that was definitely a good year, but now we got to talk about, we got to talk about to the wonder for that year. Sure, let's talk about it. I love talking about that movie. So, yeah. I, you know, our relationship to you from the very first time we met you and went to a movie and we started making fun of drawing a straight number nine and Matthew Barney. We, we have always busted your chops to your face about movies you like, but I think no movie have we savaged as relentlessly as to the wonder when you just got out and you would loved it and we were immediately. Oh, that's true. When you stupid as fucking movie. When you frame it like that, no, I was saying, for those people listening literally like a movie that you like a movie that you like you can't. And I would say enjoy it, but you can't really like, that was great, right? You couldn't have that kind of moment because as soon as you get outside. Yeah, you guys were both pretending the twirl like Olga. Walking with our hands stretch back towards the camera and twirling around. Yeah, I felt like it was at the wonder. I did. I felt like that was the only way we were going to get to the wonder was if we twirled our ways there. Oh, that was also what that was the year a toast to the wonder 1979. I love that movie, you guys didn't end. I love that you love that movie, Marcus. What's the Sarah Polly movie? Where she's on her husband? No, take this wall. Take this wall because it was a Canadian movie. They were really pushing that. Like every time I remember every time walking in the Scotia Bank, the trailer for it was playing every single day. Like every time I just happened to catch it every time I was going in. I didn't see it. I saw it years later. And every other year I end up, I like that movie. I don't like that movie. I like it. I don't like it. I have a real relationship with them. Yeah, so if you mentioned too that that time they were doing all these hilariously weird commercials before each screening where they have like David Cronenberg, Cameo or Adam Agoyan. Yeah, there was always and then they had like the short films that we all memorized and made fun of together, you know. Oh, I have a note here to talk about all that. Every year I make a point. I was like, you know what? It's always too. There's like a free period. I was like, I'll just go see these short films. No, this year is going to be good. I never learned my lesson. I had that experience this year. If you listen to our wrap up, it's like these are the fucking worst movies I've ever seen. Although there was a movie. I get you if you call it a short film. I mean, it's like, it's almost an hour. It's like 50 minutes long, but it's, it's declared the new film that like nobody knows or mentions in 2014. Voila and Shauntment. I don't, I said, or I'm not good with it. It's, it's just Alex, Alex DeConis, other women in like one room and they're just like reenacting scenes or something like that. And the COVID year. I made a point to see that was the COVID year was the worst year for short films. I mean, they had this one short film where this guy was on the stage doing the like, don't shoot. I can't breathe off a certain like some bullshit like just bullshit. But that year, there was a great short film about this guy who was who like didn't want to tell his girl. It was a French film, French Canadian film. He didn't want to tell his girlfriend that he was a referee for this like independent wrestling organization. This like little rinky dink thing. So he would secretly like leave the house and go referee these matches and then one day his girlfriend follows him and she goes into the gymnasium and sees him being a referee and it's like a nice happy movie and she's like proud of him. It's called found me. But again, nobody knows. I don't think I've ever heard of that movie. I tweeted about it. And I even wrote about it on Pinlin Empire. And clearly a film like that the directors are looking for to see what people wrote about it. And he wrote he wrote me the nicest DM in the world. It was like a really nice thing. And I was, then I was taught, then we ended up talking about wrestling. I was like, I'm not just some film nerd. I love professional wrestling and then we talk about wrestling. Sure. But would have been what has done better if it had been called grunt the movie to. Would have people find you at Toronto to Marcus right people who would fall up in land empire and we're fans. Yeah. Well, if people don't know and have only listened and have no sense of Marcus. Marcus is a gigantic black guy in a sea of little white film nerds. Is that fair way to describe you? Sure. Right. And I know your guys voice and to and the legs are excited. I know Paul Cooney's voice so sometimes walking down the street and you hear someone that's like, I don't know why I'm in another country. Well, who knows my name? Now, I do have a really good friend that I met this years ago, another guy that you met my space then through Facebook, then through Twitter. This is my buddy Dave Davidson, who actually works for the organization. He worked at the tip bell lightbox. We're still friends to this day. But over the years, you know, you meet people. Like, I remember explaining to, to, to, she's not my wife like who Martin Kessler is like, who Carly is like who, you know, Dave, my buddy Dave is like explaining all these people who I know. Yeah, and definitely stretch of years there where it sort of became a locus for people that we knew in the film world and knew through social media to see them there like the year that Martin came and the years that Martin came and. And it did feel like it felt like where stuff was at for a while there. It really did feel like, especially after I left the burdens in 2014, that it felt like this is where I go not to do industry stuff. When I was up there for years, I was remembering like movies I would see. I was like, why did I see that movie? And it's like, well, because I was there for work and I needed to see it for work, you know, when I was going through the list today. But then when it became like the vacation I did with John and Marcus, you know, and 2014 was the last year Paul went right and so after 2014 it's the last burns year. We, you know, who the hell knows what that guy went off to do. He's probably hanging around outside a middle school as we speak, you know what I'm saying guys. But, but it's like it became the locust for like hanging out with my friends and people I know in the film world that I'm not going to get another chance to see and I, you know, I would take a fair amount of meetings when I'm up there and theoretically be generating work when I'm up there. But it really became like the vacation I do with my buddy John cribs and Marcus pin, you know, after that. Yeah. Same, yeah, it was my vacation and, you know, you know, I love watching movies. So it was just like, it was, you know, when like, you know, it wasn't really worked for me like yeah it's stuff I would write about for pink smoke or for my own site. But it was like, no, I just in Toronto is also like a city that I like. It's my ideal city. It's very modern. It's not crowded. It's not dirty. I just, I like the vibe of it. Every time every year we go there just as we get there the weather is just kind of how I like it. Yeah. Well, what I say is every year when I leave New York at summer and when I get back it's sure every single year. Absolutely. And, yeah, and it's, you know, my son was asking me who's 14 now, who didn't even exist when we started going to this festival. He was like, what do you, you know, what's the city of Toronto like, and I had to admit like, I don't really know. You know, like really I would go, especially these last few years since it moved to the light box. And we started staying in Airbnb's and hotels down near the light box. Like, I really one of the most unsatisfying experiences of the last three years was that like, I'm just living on this like three blocks stretch there. Yeah, I had that same experience my, she's not my ex at the time and like the reason why I love going to Toronto at a certain point is just not being around her for like over a week. But she had one point she was like, oh, you must after truth going and we were preparing to go in 2014. And then she was like, you must be a pro at you must be a vet. You must know the city as well. I was like, oh, no, I don't actually. I just know the route from my, I just know the route from my B&B to the theaters and then back. I actually don't know. So then in 2014, which is the year that John didn't go. That was the year where like that was, we only that year, we only did the last half of it. Yeah, because I had been given. I wasn't given a pass by the burns that year. I think I'd left the members. There was like a burns donor who was like, you're not going this year. Let me give you a packet of tickets for it. So I was just given tickets by like a donor to the burdens who wanted me to go that year. But yeah, but we did just the second, second half for whatever reason that year. But I will say when it was still in the Cineplex Odeon in those early days, because you would go to Dundas Square in the Cumberland, it was spread out to more like a 1520 block radius. And I will say that I felt like I was in the city then in a way in like the light box era. You feel like it has all of that sort of like gleam of a mall. You know what I mean? It feels like you're hanging out in, you know, Hudson Yard for for a week, you know, it doesn't feel like you're in a city. Whereas the other thing it felt like not that I was an expert and did anything touristy. But you did feel like, Oh, I'm getting to know the city a little bit when it was located in the other part of town, you know, or do you disagree with that job? No, I definitely miss having, you know, kind of having to walk all the way down Young Street or all the way down Queen Street till I go to a different theater. I really enjoyed when we ended up all going back in 2016 and Marcus and I bought tickets to Patterson specifically because it wasn't going to be screening at the P and I. So we got tickets to the public screening and then had to walk down to the college to see it. Like, Oh, this is an area I've never been before, you know, it's like I like that I like being able to kind of have a nice long walk down the city and, you know, seeing a different part of it. So that you do miss that when it's kind of, you know, sectioned off into this one particular area. And 2016 is one that I have like a real affection for that year. That was the best that I was going to say I like my notes. That's the best year. The person wins his rookie year. I know guys that went over the Browns and then they didn't win for like another seven fucking. Sorry John did Carly ever mentioned because we didn't meet her that it was the next year but did Carly ever tell you. She always made a point to like she saw us coming out of the Patterson screening. No, she's like, yeah. And the next it went. Oh, no, actually, I was like maybe two years later. Anyway, she was like, yeah, like two years ago. So yeah, like these two big guys you guys stood out. I was like, Oh, no, I'm looking back on it. Oh, that was John and Marcus. You guys should start a podcast called two big guys. Listen to it. We talk about Patterson. Yeah, that was that was a great lineup of movies. The entire Martin came and hung out that year. Manchester by the sea. Yeah. Empty box. Empty box. There's one more than I'm forgetting from 2016. That was a year that felt like not like discoveries to maybe not discoveries but it felt like. Prevenge and untamed and empty box. Those are like our movies. Those aren't even a larger film culture. Those are like, those are like hours in some way. It was like, I feel that way to this day because it's just like. You know, I love prevenge it. That's also a movie that like, no matter how many times I recommend it to someone like, they always like it. Even if they're not film people or it's one of those like rare, like, this doesn't play at AMC, but you'll like this. She has a new movie coming out this year. Actually, she's another one that was like so appreciative of us talking about her film and everything. And empty box is great. Untamed. I watched that movie a few weeks ago just like, oh, it's actually on. It's on one of those like 2B freebie things, which those listening. Those streaming services have like some really good stuff. I think everyone associates the really cheap, shitty, original programming for those both in terms of like, I don't like Todd Haynes is safe is on. I just can't. I just can't watch shit with the commercial. Oh, yeah. And some of them are not sure. To be to be. It's not terrible. I can make it through a movie on to be some of those free streaming services have a commercial every four minutes. Yeah. Freebie. Freebie's pretty bad. Freebie is my mind. John, you agree. Was 2016 the year for you? Is that your favorite year? Absolutely. It's my favorite year because not only again, were we all there, but like that lineup was so filled with movies that you knew were going to be good that turned out to be great. Like the new kind of longer again, the new Paul Verhoeven. But it's also a year that like I got straightened out by that festival. It was like, don't waste time with the Anna Lilliam reports of the world, you know, go see the Lab Diaz movie and spend spend three hours the Lab Diaz movie. That's where you should be. You know, and you know, like you guys said, untamed and pre then just like great films that felt like the empty box like, you know, these are our films now. There's nothing like there's nothing like watching. I wish I could go back because I knew enough. I didn't know what the untamed was going to be about at all. So to watch that movie blind is like such a good feeling because it's such a good feeling. Even being a fan of him, even liking his movies. Sure. Sure. Sure. It catches you off guard. It's like, I know what a modest Calante is about. I love a modest Calante and then halfway through it's like, oh, I did not know. I did not know what he was about. That was the movie where I finally stopped associating him with Carlos Ray goddess. Yeah. It's like, oh, this is, this is, you know, it's like more stay in the time and prints. It's like, no, he's his own. He's his own guy with this movie for sure. Yeah. For me, the best year was 2009. And I don't know if that was the first year we had full passes, John. I think it might be. Do you have a member? Do you know if we had full passes? It has to be. We saw Antichrist. We saw the White Ribbon. We saw White Material. That was all very front loaded stuff. That was a movie that felt like that is the Wildgrass White Ribbon year to me. And as much as like Wildgrass, I don't think has had some reputation that's grown in stature over the year. It was Solomon Kane and Wildgrass. Like seeing those at the Dundas Square Theatre back to back was like, this is what a festival is all about. Two movies that I can't imagine I would have gone and seen in the theater when they came out that I'm doing as a double feature here. And I'm not here to tell you these are masterpieces, but that like this is expanding my palette. That's the movie of, of Lon Fard, Andre, Andre George Cluso. That's that it also's mother was that year mall girls by the director of Baby Blues. And White Ribbon and White Material and Antichrist, which are three, like just monumental Titanic films in a lot of ways. It just really felt like how the rising was that year, even though I left it early, right up there where I was like, that's a regular movie. And you guys were like, what? And I was like, because I had to walk out of the Cumberland. Well, not you guys. I wasn't there. I just love refing and I love that movie. No later later on, like two years later, I was like, I saw Val Hallarizing. I watched the first half. You guys were like, it takes a turn young man. No, it does. The other problem with that. There's two issues with that with that movie. First of all, the trailer makes it seem like it's just some fighting movie. It's like slave fighting. That's only the first 15 minutes. Also, when it came out on DVD, it was like a knockoff 300 style cover, like the font and everything. It was just like, this is not what. Yeah. So. But that was, that was just like the year. I just remember that year I had my little routine where there was a cafe that was like right across from the hotel. And I would get my like eggs in the morning, or I would go to the little coffee shop and I'd get an espresso and a Danish and I'd do that each morning and I'd go to the hot dog stand, you know, to get to get my hot dogs on the way to Cumberland. We'd go down to Dundas Square. There was the the knick-knack shops where we found like all of the novelizations at that one used bookstore. I wish that shop was still there. There was just a bunch of stuff and it was when I was finally not like destitute anymore. That was like the year where I was finally making enough money that I didn't have to like do everything as cheaply as humanly possible. You know, and, and that was a good year. Just for me, that was like, this is what the festival should be. Seeing movies I won't others, why see having discovery, seeing real masterpieces, seeing movies that are going to stand the test of time. Seeing movies by directors I've never heard of that turn out to be good. Just it was like, you know, it's really weird to say and hard to explain that like Wildgrass and Solomon Kane is like the definitive film festival like experience for me in the Dundas Square multiplex. You know what I mean? And I was saying. And they were late. They were at night. I got out of Solomon Kane at like 1.30 in the morning and walked back to the hotel and we went to the Brass Rail, but sorry John, you're on. I just want to say something about mall girls too. No, we went to Zanzibar. Sorry, go on. That's the perfect example of, you know, the kind of film you're not going to see anywhere outside the festival. You know, it's a Polish film by this director Katarizna Rosaliniek, right? Yeah. And so we saw this film. We're like, Hey, that was a really good film. We really liked this. And so it really became a film that belonged there at the Toronto Film Festival because you work on every see this like on any kind of DVD or anything. And then her second film Baby Blues, we went to see it. I can't remember what theater was, but it was some weird little tiny theater with like maybe five other people there. And it really felt like they set this screening up for us. This is our girl. This is our movie. You know, we're going to come back and see her next film. And it just felt very exclusive in like a way that was fun. Yeah. So I love movies, you know, weird discoveries like that. The festival are always great. For sure. 2009 was a really great year. And it was, and there was just something about like this is hitting full swing for me. You know, that that's when it really felt like this, this is full swing for all of this. I know what I'm doing. I'm getting treated with respect, you know, like I'm working my way through this. This is, I can live, I can live this way. And I'm seeing movies. And I remember that was one of the times we drove overnight, for some reason, we were still doing in the drive overnight. We have doing it because we got in at like, we had driven overnight. And then without sleeping, even though we were coming in on Friday, we got in at like 8 a.m. And I just went directly to Antichrist. I remember Andy Christ was showing at like 9.30 in the morning, we got in. I didn't even sleep. I just went straight to Antichrist, you know, 29 year old could do that, could live that way. No sleep and just have it not affect me. Be out all night. And we were night owls, you know, going, walking around the city too. It's funny to have some memories of like the, the early memories when you're in a different part of Toronto to like the, the story that I always like to tell. If I told you this one, Marcus, we were walking out front of Harvey's was me, Paul and John Cribs. John Cribs just rolled his eyes. Do you want to veto me telling this story? Go for it. You probably told me is this where you something is thrown at you. Yeah, where there was a puddle of vomit on the ground. And I stepped over the puddle of vomit out front of the burger place we had been in. And something got flicked at me. And like hit my thigh. And I thought, was that like a cigarette, but like what the hell was that that somebody just flicked at me and I looked up. And there was a street walking prostitute with her skirt hiked up in her hand in her crotch. And she went and laughed. And she had just thrown her used tampon at me. And it had hit my leg and left a blood streak across it. Right. That like stained the jeans and I had only brought one pair of jeans to wear for the festival. And that would be jeans and wore these like jeans that I tried to get the tampon prostitute blood stain out of when I was stepping across a puddle of vomit. But like, that's a great memory. That's a wonderful story in my opinion. And for those of you listening, no, for those of you listening, believe it or not, that's actually not the craziest Toronto story. But at least for me it's not. I know Chris. What were you going to say? Let me just cap off this story real quick before you tell your story. Sure. Sure. Sure. The happy ending there is that Hannibal Lecter, you know, talked her into biting off her own tug and choking on it so what's the crazy story for me. Second Second City 2014. Oh my God. Holy shit. I forgot about that. I told it. I told that story to Mike. I told that story twice today because I was telling it to my co-worker who sits next to me and then people down the way over and they're like, I'm sorry. Did I just hear that right? And then I had to tell the story. Tell it a third time. Tell it a third time. So I like sketch comedy even though it can be so hit or miss and it's just like we're in Toronto. This is the place where, you know, Martin Short and Eugene Levy and John Candy. They all cut their teeth. So I got I got two tickets to Second City, but John wasn't there that year. And I was like, Chris, I got a ticket to Second City. Do you want to come with me? Yeah. Sure. Of course. So we get there right away. First of all, the comment. It just it wasn't very good. So at one point, there's a sketch on stage and it's half improv. So the sketch on stage is about an old person passing away. And then had a funeral and like a kid's taking selfies at the field. Well, that's what I was going to say at one part of the sketch. So this must be 2014, right? It is 2014. Okay. And in the middle of the sketch, Chris, I don't notice anything. Chris nudges me. And I'm like, what? And then like, again, this is like a theater. So you can't, it's like you can have a conversation. You nudge me. And then you just start pointing. And then I look over. And it's this old, there was a family sitting in front of us. And it's like a big family. Like, yeah, it was a really big. It was more than it was actually more than a baby. But anyway, who I assume is the grandmother was kind of leaned over. Like slumping over slumping over and then the guy who I let's just assume it was her son. Oh, actually it was because he was saying ma ma and he's shaking ma. And he's like, move. And then, while we're watching a sketch about a funeral. And then, so I need you to understand, I've been to Second in Chicago, where they used to do shit where they would plant people in the audience during the sketch. So at first, I'm like, let's see how this plays out. Then minutes later, there's commotion in the theater. And it's like, wow, they're really, this is really, they're really committed to this bit because I've seen it done at Second City before. Then cut. It's like the family like trying to wake her up. Yeah. Yeah. And so there's commotion on our half of the theater. Right. And then people in the other half are like, shut the fuck up. Yeah, they're just shut the fuck up. Like very rude. Like, no, not, not understanding like there's a lady dying apparently. And then finally, and then it's then at a certain point, the EMT comes and we're like, holy shit, this is real. And she's still this whole time she has not moved. She's slumped over. She's definitely dead. Right. And well, then, then, as they're putting her on this stretcher, Gurney, whatever you want to call it, Chris and I notice a flash come in between us. And we turn around. And it's these two people took a selfie as this old lady's being put on the Gurney, which is funny because that, because exactly, no, you actually said that to them. I don't think they heard you, but you said it like directly to them. But there's so much commotion going on. I don't think they heard you, but it's just, and they open these side doors to the theater. Yeah, there was stuff in, but it wasn't. It was incredible how the performance didn't stop. Like the Gurney. But forget that you're missing something else. One of the, the person who worked their table ran after the family. Oh my god. Oh my god. That was like a long bill. It was huge. And the, and the like son and daughter were like really apologetic. Yes. They were like, we're so so sorry for bothering us. We're so sorry for bothering everybody. We're so sorry. We're so sorry. But the sketch, like they didn't like, we've just described all this like 95% of what we described. They didn't stop the performance on stage. These people just don't want performance. They had an intermission and they were like, all right, we're just going to take a little break. And we're going to be back with the second half of the show. Like after all that, it happened. They still announced the second half of the show. The EMS people are like opening the doors and bringing a stretcher in and they're doing their fucking terrible sketch about like the funeral selfies. It was, this was the most unreal. Yeah. Yeah. It might be one of the most unreal experiences I've ever had in life. Yeah. Right. It's not actually, yeah, it's really not just a Toronto thing. It's like, it's just a life thing. Like, well, you know, it's fucking nuts. That's great. Although, although now that I get older and I've had a lot of health problems the last few years, it's like I would so much rather die watching a fucking comedy show than in a hospital. You know, like that's if that's the way I gotta go. Let me slump over with my family watching a comedy show, not like hooked up to tubes for a year. But then, but you know, after telling that story, I realized I was like, there's a lot of like when you go to, I mean, you guys have been going longer than I have to. It's like a lot of stuff. It's like it becomes really just Toronto Film Festival. It's like a staple in my life. And it's just like, I've had some of my best laughs there. I'm not even exaggerating. And like I said, I saw a woman die in front of me with one of my closest friends. It's just things like that kind of actually trends in just the Toronto Film Festival. No, early on, like it's just the early years were just like so much fun fresh out of college with my friends. Just being out all night. People don't, I don't know if I've expressed from the podcast. John is an insomnia. John sleeps one or two hours a night, most nights. And so when you hang out with John and you want to stay up, you can stay up all night, all the time. And John's a walk or two. So we would just go walking around that night out till three and four in the morning, every single night. Go back and watch movies and just just being with John and Paul and out in the world and just doing that stuff. Like, I remember. Were you must have been there for John? I don't know if it was just me and Paul. One of the first years we were there. There was like a nice frat house near where it was. And we just like walked into the frat party and joined the frat party. And like a Canadian frat. It was like every bit is sort of like defanged and polite as you would expect. But it was like a great time. And doing karaoke up there. Marcus, what do you think John did for karaoke up in Toronto? I don't have a clue. I can't even. I don't know. He did Jesus. He loves me by Genesis. Oh, wow. Okay. That was for Rob Cotto. I hadn't met him yet, but that was for Rob Cotto. Sure. I always think I will. My father-in-law or Rob Cotto when I think of Genesis Peter Gabriel Genesis. But as far as memories go to 2016 is one of my favorite. It's one of the best laughs I've ever had to. And it was such a quiet. It was one of the things like nobody else heard it. Like, you know, John's a quiet guy. So nobody like we were at some restaurant. They were taken too long and something like that. And the waitress is trying to explain how crazy it was back there. And like, not under your breath, just in a calm tone. John is like, yeah, it's a real downy. And then like the way he said it, I could I laughed so hard. And then she was so confused. And I'm trying to explain to her what it meant. But I'm laughing as I'm trying to explain it to her. And she's like, what? Anyway, she thought I was laughing at her. I was like, I swear it's not true. I just wasn't expecting to say that. And then, and then 2018 was the year we all saw that random movie about that Polish juvenile delinquent who was like closeted. And then he, you know, it's what I'm talking about where he was like a juvenile delinquent. And then he was like closeted and he was like bisexual. And then I don't remember this at all. Oh, but there was like one scene where like he goes into this room to like make out with a guy. And there's some other guy in the room named Mickey, who's just like sleazy looking guy. And he's just watching them. And I'm like, what the hell is it? And then like Chris leaned into me. He's like Mickey just likes to watch. And I laughed so and then and someone turned like, like they got so mad at me and shushed me, but it was fair. I wasn't expecting you to say that. You know what my speaking of waitresses in Toronto, you know, we would watch the football every year for opening weekend of NFL season coincides with Toronto Film Festival every year. And the only place to watch football once it got by the light box. There's no place. We even this year, we were still trying to find some other place. You got to go to Hooters to watch the games and it's, and it's, you have no other options in that area. You have to say in the programmers, you know, to their credit, they seem to be football fans because consistently there's never anything and no worries missing the movies. Sunday afternoon, he's never good there. But my favorite, favorite Hooters memory is there was a guy who was like sort of a tubby, dorky looking middle age guy who had a lot of waitresses buzzing around and he's really throwing his money around at Hooters right. And he's there for like hours while we're watching the games, but he's not really watching the games. He's just soaking in the attention. And I called one of the waitresses over and I was like, what's that? What's that guy's deal over there? He just looks like some kind of shmo. She was like, that's Canada's number three robot inventor. And I was like, 2011. That was 2011. It's the number three. And I said to her, I didn't realize the robot inventor rankings were out already that they had released them for 2011. Can you imagine telling that lie? Now, I'm not Canada's number one robot inventor. I don't want to tell tales outside of school. And I'm not Canada's number two robot inventor either, right? I'm Canada's number three robot inventor puts me like 48th worldwide robot invention, just like so fucking absurd. That was the same, forget same year. That was the same night where it was like for some reason on an incredibly busy night. They put this new girl in with like the, it was like a first night. Do you remember that? Yes. Yes. And then she, and then like she kept, John wasn't doing it on purpose. John was just like annoyed, so was I because the service, but like Casey John would huff and she took it like it was directed directly at her. And then, but by the end of the night, she was, she's like, I know I suck. I think I'm just going to quit. Like it was real. I was like, whoa, no, no, no, no, no, no, John's the one who sucks. You don't suck. John's the guy who's terrible. But like, like at one point, yeah, he like huffed. And I swear, it was not directed at her, but it got all like you huffed. And she got your, and it got her attention and she immediately turned her head. And instead of like, what the hell's this guy's problem? She was just like, like, he's mad at me. Like it was really, no, but it sucked for her. And it was the kind of thing where she was like, okay, here's your food. And it was an hour late and it'd be like a burger instead of. Yeah, you'd have to be like, I'm really sorry, but like, John Cribs has only ever ordered a cheesesteak, just the meat and cheese, no onions or peppers, nothing on it. He is definitely not. And it wasn't even just it was every single thing. It was it you'd order a Pepsi and you'd come out with no ice and you'd come out with a glass of ice water. It was, it was, I felt bad. It's hard work. I felt bad. But, you know, it was definitely, we had to give her the pep talk at the end of the night. No, we didn't. She was like, yeah, she was very sad. I said, I said to her, look at this man right here. It was gesturing at John Cribs. You know who that is? That's Canada's number two robot inventor right there. He's here just throwing it in the face of Canada's number three robot inventor. The only reason he's eaten here. So that guy feels bad. And do you think that Canada's number two robot inventor would encourage you to quit your job if he wasn't getting great service under these circumstances? And then, you know, then John brought his robot out and he convinced her to stay. You know, what's another random thing about Hooters? This was a nut. Oh, it was the same. It was the, it was the second city year. In 2014. This is very specific to Marcus Pin. We're at Hooters watching football. And I noticed the voice behind me in a certain point. I turned around. I'm like, Oh, is that just incredible? I didn't say anything to the former ECW world champion. I was like, why is he in Toronto? It's like, well, Toronto is a big wrestling city. And then he gets up and I was like, okay, no, that's definitely, well, his romance, Chris Palco, but that's just incredible. And then I remember, like, months later, I'm like, that's too random. And I looked it up. And I looked up his, like, bookings. And he actually did have a show in Toronto. It was like September something. I was like, Oh, that, oh, I really wasn't. It was very random to see them. Again, former ECW, former, former WWE, hardcore champion, Justin credible set behind us at, at Hooters. Well, while we're on dining anecdotes. In 2005, first year, I'm up there, Chris and Paul, right? I'm so excited. Oh, Jesus. I feel very bad about this experience. I'm like, guys, this is on me. This, this lunch is on me when we first go out to eat together, right? Like it's on me. And I was got the, got them the check and was like, Oh, okay, I got to figure out this tip with this Canadian money. Chris and Paul are like, Oh, you don't tip in Canada. They don't know why they don't know what tipping is. I was like, what? We just were telling all these lies about Canada. And he didn't leave it. And I felt so bad. I gave Paul money to go back the next day. And he was like, she wasn't there. I just gave it to someone else. I'm like, do you think it's going to go to her? Like, give me my money back. I don't know why we did that. I don't know why we were telling you all kinds of untrue things. And you were just believing very ingenuously about it. Well, the tip thing is the only thing I remember, but it was just like, I can't believe you guys told them that I believed it. It's very embarrassing to me. I don't know why we did that. In terms of running into people by 2016, 18, you're just seeing people, at least seeing Brian DePaul and just walking around the festival, Marcus, you sat behind like Roger Ebert at screenings and stuff like that. Brian DePaul walked out of confessions. You know, my best seeing a celebrity story up there is I was at the Cumberland hot dog stand and down the block. I could see a guy walking down the block and he looked furiously angry. He was just exuding anger. A short guy in a little black suit with like the shirt, top button undone, right. Walking down the street and I was like, holy shit, this guy's furious. This dude walking down the street. I wonder what this dude's probably getting closer and closer. And it's like, he just looks like he wants to punch anybody in the face. And then I realized it was Sean Penn. And it was like, I best, that's how he gets around outside and isn't bothered, is he just looks. Like, I'd better not fucking talk to Sean Penn was my main takeaway from that. My nice, it's weird thing celebrity, but one of my nicest experiences ever was Miguel Gomez for those who don't know he's a Portuguese director. I'd seen all of his movies, especially in the ones that I never got a chance to see that were difficult to see. There was a period in life where I felt like I lived in anthology film archives between like 2009 through 2010. And I saw all his movies. And then in 2012, he's just there standing on the corner smoking a cigarette and I go up and I'm just like, excuse me, are you Miguel Gomez? I'm, you know, I'm a big fan and he doesn't speak the best English. But then his eyes lit up. He was just like, wow, you're American. I was like, you like my movies? And I was like, yeah, they're really good. I was like, oh, wow, he just kept, I think, oh, wow, it was like his most clearly, oh, wow, was what he knew the most. And yeah, it was just, it was super nice. He was like, so appreciative of this like random guy coming up to him on the street. Yeah, let me move. Paul Cooney was the expert in like recognizing people like I've, I realized, you know, just anytime I'm even in New York City. Like, I would never notice anybody famous if it weren't for Paul Cooney standing there going, Zach Galipinac is there is, you know, and we were walking just the two of us and it was late. It was like midnight one day and it was just completely whole street was completely empty. It's just the two of us and then just some random guy walking towards us and walking past us and Paul's like, Hey, Andrew Wilson. Just like the third Wilson brother man, just walk around by himself. Oh, nice. What do you say to Andrew Wilson in the middle of the night in Toronto? I don't know. What I said was my baseball diamond. Just to move it back to the beginning because I think well, then go through sort of towards towards the end. It's funny when you sent me the list for 2004. I was like, I didn't see any of these movies. Yeah, I had no idea which ones you would see in that first year. I was going through until I got to midnight madness. And it was like, Oh, I did in fact come to this fact I was like, am I wrong about what year was my first year? I was wrong all of this time somehow. And then when I got to midnight madness and saw Cal there. I was like, Oh, Cal there. That is a very Toronto movie for me. That's the kind of like half remembered, almost forgotten horror movie that I would have only seen at that festival that sort of striking and interesting on its own. And then Zebra man, and then saw the James Wan movie, right. And I saw saw they used to do the P and I midnight madness screenings, very close to midnight, if not at midnight. It's my memory that I saw saw with like a mixed audience that was half P and I and half regular ticket holders at a midnight madness screening. And that I don't know what its reputation was going into it. I'd certainly never heard of it. The crowd went bananas from stop to start. And I was like, Oh, I guess this movie will be a huge hit, you know, and that was my first experience of seeing something with the crowd and realizing it's going to live this life in the future. And I'm like getting a preview and a glimpse of that future. But just how we still did this day. That's one of the best screenings I've ever been to this audience that I think was unprepared for saw. And there's a reason that saw franchise was popular. The first movie really plays the first movie really works. And it just hit that audience exactly the way it was supposed to. And just being really like, Oh, holy shit, you know, what an experience. And that's I think my first real solid memory of Tiff is seeing saw there, you know. Yeah. And then the next year we saw Hostel, which we were just talking, Eli Roth jumped up in front of the crowd to say, Okay, well, this version you're seeing is not exactly, you know, the finished print or whatever. And like, I didn't realize at the time, but like people were pissed that he did that. You're not supposed to jump up and talk about your film and the screenings. Yeah, they don't have any of the talent come in front of it because the idea is you don't want to be influencing the press or industry by like, you know, all of the stuff that's now like, I don't even think young critics understand like junket stuff and meeting celebrities and getting photos with them damages your integrity as a critic. So this is an errand which critics still wanted to have integrity and not be influenced by being like worked by Eli Roth, who's like a real glad hander room worker. And he got up and was trying to work the room. It's still the only person I've ever seen get up in front of a P&I screening like this. And somebody in the audience was like, sit down. And he seemed completely taken aback because he was used to playing those like fantastic fest midnight movies, horror film type genre festivals where I think it's like the buddy buddy ain't it cool news style of criticism and programming that's become the standard. And I think he was really taken aback. You could see he was really taken aback by like the cold shoulder. He received at that screening. So isn't he famously just like kind of, excuse me, but like a dick of a person in my life. He's no, he's, he's like a room worker. You can see how I know he is I've certainly heard our, our buddy, Mike Morona just told me a story recently about working with him and how he seems like a real piece of shit. I don't know if I'm supposed to say that on the record, but, but he's definitely somebody who like works the room and is like, we're all filtered buddies here. You know, he definitely has that vibe to him. So it wasn't asshole stuff. It was definitely like, let's nerd out time to geek with Eli Roth kind of feeling, you know, go ahead. Yeah, and, and was shut down. But also what I remember about that screening because that screening was fairly early in the morning. That was a double feature with her so the where rabbit with the wall, some grommet movie. We like, I don't remember which one was first, but we watched one and then the other in the exact same theater like sat in there and just being like, this is great and hostels also movie that really, really plays hostels a movie that really works as a movie and you can tell is going to be a big hit. And then curse of the where rabbit is obviously fucking bottomlessly brilliant. And that was a great experience. My first year, I was asked to maybe think, yeah, hostel made me think, you know, midnight madness. This is going to be a great series every single year we come here. And it was for 10 years, like 10 years, it was, it was, it was the highlight of the festival. I was going to say my first year, the movie I also saw that I remember thinking like, Oh, they're always going to show great documentaries here, which was not the case was the channel. I saw Z channel at Toronto the first year, Toronto was like, this is going to be great. This is going to be what they do here. And this is going to be, I'm always going to be seeing movies like Z channel at the documentary, which was, which was not the case as it were, right? It's funny that you mentioned Calvert, you know, the priest who wells the director, someone I always associate with TIFF, because I saw Vignon in 2008, the movie he made starring Emmanuel Baird. I'd be like, yeah, that was fine. It was all right. Yeah. But then when message from the King, the movie he made starring Chadwick Boseman in 2016 was on the docket. And like, I heard one person say, Oh, it was bad. I was like, Okay, I'm going to skip it. That's all I need. Yeah. Yeah, it's a good. It's a good. It's good stuff there. It's good. It was good stuff early on. It was an interesting. It was the early years are interesting, because it feels like not the full experience when we went early on because we were doing the second half, but it also feels like the real, you know what I mean, it feels like there. I prefer their early work. Yeah. It's kind of like those albums, those first two made in albums are actually their best kind of. Yeah. No, as much as I enjoyed. As much as I enjoyed 2018 and 2019, there was definitely more of a feel of like, I'm going to check things out that are coming. You know, you hear that. Shoplifters is there. You hear a hidden life is there and Joe Joe rabbit or Joker and knives out and you're like, this is a movie. I'll check out for the first time before anybody else does because clearly it's going to do something and people are going to have opinions on these things. So it's less like discovery. It's less like finding films for me, for us, you know, even though we did discover our Greta's and our Donnie Brooks office, those years, but it was a lot more like, Oh, this is something that's already got like some steam behind it and we're just going to check it out early, basically. So it's a little less exciting when it's something like that. Check it out on uncut gems or portrait of a lady on fire before those movies really take off. So, you know, there's something to be said for that. But it's not quite the same as it was early on. It was just like, who knows what this movie is going to end up being, who knows what hostel is going to be, you know. My question was, there's a few years where nobody went to the festival. I do believe I went in 2013 by myself is what I think, and I was trying to remember why nobody else came that year for it. And what was going on in 2013. Do you have any memory, John, of what you were doing. I mean, you already would have been pretty pregnant at that point. We're two months away from my second child. So that definitely was probably the reason I didn't go. So I probably, I went there myself in 2013. And that was one of the light box years to, for that, when it's when it's down at like the light box, go Shabank for it. Okay, that makes sense. And then it starts to slow down a little because 2015, 2017. Nobody goes for that. This is after I've left the burns and the burns had been sort of the driving force to get up there. And so it was sort of making individual decisions 2015. I was simply too busy with work stuff with leaving the burns and starting my own production company and getting into my own writing and filmmaking work to, I think, to have time to do it. And then 2017 I don't know why nobody went, what was going on that year. I'm not really sure why nobody went up that year. But I do remember in 2019 you guys went up without me in 2019. I definitely felt like I've been going to this festival so long. I need a break. I only want to come back to this festival when they're showing one of my movies. I remembered thinking that year is that like, that'll be an impetus to come back here and a good reason to come back is when they're showing something I've made and I'm going to take a year off right. And I really, I don't even, I don't even think it was until one of my movies it really in my head was like, I'll take a year off and see what's what when I didn't come in 2015 or 2017. There were reasons for it. It wasn't like I'm done with the festival. I just remember like I couldn't make it happen. 2019 was like, I, I'm going to take a year off deliberately. And then the next year, COVID happened and they had the COVID restrictions on 20 and 2021. So it ended up being a three year enforced hiatus on make, you know, that like, Oh, I can't actually go back to it. And I sort of rude it before I went back in 2022. And that was the reason I was glad that Marcus and I ended up going in 19, because, you know, 18 was such a positive experience. And I was like, I definitely want to go and I definitely would love to hang out with Marcus and see some movies and you have that being the year right before COVID when they were open. You could go up to the sea movies if you will fucking wanted to, but I obviously was not going to do that. None of us were going to do that. Yeah, I did the whole experience. I took advantage of that because at the time that was early September. Yeah, I had just, I had been unemployed for like six months, like at the early wave of COVID I got let go. And then I got this part time design job. So I just settled and I wasn't, you know, being between my kidney transplant and just being a diabetic. I took COVID seriously. So I just didn't really go anywhere. So I was, and I was like, I'm going to watch everything like I'm going to watch. I'm going to take it back to like 2011 because I'm just talking to my couch. So I'm just going to literally watch everything. I watch as much as much as possible. And that was. And we came over and watch City Hall at your house. We did. We did. That was a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah. That was a fun experience. Yeah. And then if I'm not mistaken. Oh, you mentioned him already, but our friend Rob Carter, he came over to watch No Mad Land because that's another thing too. It's like, hey, I got, I have a 72 hour window, or maybe it was 48 hours window for this movie. So if you want to combine, I'm going to be watching it. I had a whole party of people there just to sit down and watch whatever movie you see. Yeah. And such is the power of Frederick Wiseman that I sat on your floor for four hours. You really did. I was watching all the City Hall in trans trans about my home, my home state, although it feels like such a foreign land to me because I'm not from Boston. So. It's also a testament to, I think it's no coincidence in 2019 and 2020. Those were the most miserable years of Eagles football where I didn't even want to watch them play and hated the team actively that I also didn't go to tip. I think there's some mysterious. Synergy between those between the sort of misery of the late win Stug Peterson years and, and my absence from Toronto. And then coming back in 2022, the Eagles Super Bowl narrow loss year for that. I think there's some synergy, but this is Marcus, you stopped going because you had a son, right? Is that the reason you got tapped out? I had a son, and then you got a nanny and that's just where all my money went. I'm just going to be completely honest. I wasn't as crazy busy as I am with recording and music and DJing. Now I'm making side money. There was this like window of like two years where I was just like, I just had one job. And so much of my money just went to this nanny who, by the way, at least essentially she was like family. She was with my son for two and a half years. Yeah, she's really nice. So she is she's incredibly nice. But yeah, I just could. And you know, to be fair, in 2020, I was so movieed out. Like 2021 and even 2022. I'll always make a point if someone has a New York Film Festival ticket for me or if there's something from a, like one of my directors I want to see, but I'm just like on a whim just going to the mood. I just don't do that anymore. And I think because I will, again, I watched everything in 20. There was no use not to because I was just at home all the time. And I was just like, I think I had movie overload. Those two years 20 and it's, you know, the COVID affects everything, but the 2020 and 2021 lineups are bad. They are bad. Yeah, no, you know, here's what I'm here's what I'm getting this. Yeah, you're right. I was about it's because, but in 2020, there were two specific movies that I thought were like amazing. And I think because of that I associated with the year, but it's like, no, actually, yeah, there was, there was in 2020 was that Chloe Grace Moretz movie where there's like a gremlin on the plane. You know, the movie I'm talking about. I don't think it ever came out. No, it's literally, you know that you know that bugs bunny looney tunes. It's literally that it's just that it's Chloe Grace Moretz where there's like a gremlin on the plane. Oh, I remember this now. Yes, yes, yes, but but but but but there's little no I'm telling the young man, there's a little beats that clearly like oh no you're trying to remake that bugs bunny episode where there's a gremlin on the plane. Like it even shadow in the cloud. Like the movie it even takes place in the 1940 like there's just so there's like certain things. It's like covered by Max Lance. Yeah, yeah, and but but no but that was the year where another round which is a movie I really love. Yeah, and this and this movie, this movie called the inheritance, which came out of nowhere out of nowhere and it's just like oh, this is another one of those it's like, oh, finally someone. It's good art as an influence and it's like oh this actually makes sense. Like they're not just it's not just like a guy in sunglasses smoking cigarettes. Oh, you're influenced by guitar like oh no this guy this guy actually gets it. And then turns out he's actually, he's a friend of two of my friends are friends of two mains and he's also a friend of lodges. But yeah, I love that movie so much and I've only seen it once that's another thing to the older I get. When I started at Toronto, when I saw post-it never sucks in 2012, I remember like, I don't ever want to watch this movie guy. Whatever the feeling I had like it'll never be duplicated. I tried my best and then eventually I ended up watching post-it never sucks a million times a couple years later. But since another movie, I saw that tip. I saw it with you guys and it's like I'm not there's certain movies like, you know, another round. The inheritance, I'm not going to name them all but like certain stuff at the empty box. So it's like, I don't ever want to see this movie again but I mean that in a good way. Like this is this. Did you ever see love in mathematics? No, because you didn't come up. No, I didn't go that year. No, no, you told me all about it. I didn't see it. And she's somebody that it's funny. I would see around the festival. I saw her twice at the same corner store. And that's like my celebrity sighting. Is it's like that if the Garden View convenience store is where Claudia St. Lucie goes with her tall, super handsome boyfriend and it's like God bless her. That's that's that's the payoff for being her IO. And then so these last few years it's just been you and me, John. I feel like when I look at the good movies from 22 and 23, there's a lot, a lot of good movies, but it's sort of becoming more like a mountain. And then receding above an ocean, you know, are standing above an ocean and the waters are sort of receding rather than being like a garden full of things with some trees that are taller from than others. But sort of a lot of an entire landscape of film. It really feels like there's these peaks above the ocean now with the movies there. But how's it how's it been going? Just me and you for the past few years. It's out there on the road, John. It's just I considered our trilogy of life this last three years, you know, going to tip together near in the end, you know, just like old Passolini was back in the day. Passolini's another film that Marcus would have seen in 2020, I think online. The career movie. But I saw it. I saw it. Yes. Passolini is like 2014. Yeah, I saw that. That's what I got. That's what I'm thinking. I'm confusing. Yes. You would have seen it in 2014 when I didn't go. That's what I'm thinking. Yeah. Yeah. I did. That was the little kinkin here. That's right. Ned rifle. That was a, that was a, that was another one of my favorites. That was at that other like special theater. That was like at the end. And I just remember loving that movie so much because, you know, I think we're how heartly guys. So that's like the, that's like, you know, crazy comparison. But it's like, oh, this is his Irishman. He's got all those guys back together, all in one movie, every era of how heartly actor is in this movie, whether it be for one scene, two scenes, three scenes. It's like everyone. And I was able to redeem himself after a fake rim, which we saw in Toronto. Yeah. Yeah. Yikes. Yeah. It's on a strong note though. But yeah, I think, you know, you're right, I think that there were highlights and there were, you know, we came upon the bear in wasteland and there were the occasional, you know, trees with fruit in them, for sure. Um, 2022 was kind of miserable because we had, um, oh God, we hadn't, we hadn't figured out like what we were going to do. And so we like got a hotel outside the city and had to drive in every day. And we got on each other's nerves just out of, you know, frustration with the city hotel too. Yeah. Like it was like, I don't even remember how we arrived at that. At staying at that place and staying all the way. It was dirt cheap. That was all it was. It was like this place is basically 10 bucks a day. And that's great. Because it's 2002. So everybody's fucked for money. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Because I remember during COVID being like, my finances are fine. So long as this doesn't last all the way till October 2022. And just like watching that clock count down and being like, I'm good. And then like as it gets closer and closer being like, oh shit, I'm going to just like run out of money. Is that possible as an adult? But even then there were like moments of, you know, Toronto magic, you know, festival magic. When we, one morning we went, we came in and for whatever reason, like our parking spot had been taken by somebody else like we were just like matter at each other than I think we've ever been in our life. I was just like, I want to get away from fun to right now so fucking much like you were being a network. I was being a network. You were being annoying. Everything was bad. And then we saw the Banshees of Innocherin, which is this movie about, you know, these guys friendship. Yeah. And after this movie was like, Hey, we're good. This movie has mended it. We're good. Yeah. Friends get each other's throats. They get sick of each other. They get mad at each other. And they are the Colin Farrell of this relay of Toronto, John. I am. I am the best looking guy. The best looking guy on the island. That's best looking guy on the island. And I'm the one who's like, I need to concentrate on my art and then writes a terrible song, a terrible toonless monster. I got to go play fiddle. No, you don't remember that. The other half of the bar. I don't know if I told you this story. I told it on somebody's podcast. And I feel like our podcast, our year end podcast that year. So yes, I know all about it. I'm aware where John has a terrible sense of direction listeners. If you haven't heard this and I was really angry at him. And he was being so impatient about getting to bannies, banshees of anisher and right just being like. And we had we were going to get there incredibly early and you were just like. Stop like whatever it was. You were just being unbearable. And so knowing that you had no idea how to get anywhere, how to go anywhere. So we started driving in this circle around where the theater was sort of in descending circles and made the drive take like 45 minutes longer than it needed to, because you were angry to get there and impatient to get there on time. So it's like driving and smelling circles rather than driving directly and I was like in diminishing circles around it and being like, he really has no fucking clue how to get anywhere. It's just like this overgrown baby I've got a chauffeur around and he's never going to say, Hey, are we headed to the right place? How do we, you know, he will just never know this place we've been going 18 years. And he has no idea. And then we saw it and it mended everything. It was like we're best buds again. I'm not going to murder your donkey and burn down your house. Am I remembering that movie correctly. Wait a minute, if we're talking about hotel stays, are we going to talk about 2016, where it was pretty uncertain for the first few days. We were there. The crazy lady. Yeah. We're essentially long story short. That lady who looked like a you cigarette that fucking nut job. No, no, we, no, we got an Airbnb from this like young woman, what turns out it wasn't really her place, but this young woman, it turns out you're not supposed to Airbnb in there. It was really like her mom that owned the place, but like the security lady in the front like the first couple, you're like, like, she's like, who the fuck are you guys? Yes. And we don't know any bit because because, yo, we rented an Airbnb. Right. And that during that, it's like kind of an honor system where it's just like us, obviously the building's cool with you doing this. So we're just gay. We're here. You know what I mean? But yeah, that turned into like smoke alarms went off. And that was just a deal. And I had to go down to the server security lady and be like, right, right. What are we doing? What's going on here? And her being like, what are you doing in the building? And then that's, no, the lady whose mom owned it, you didn't deal with her. You don't know lady. The lady whose mom who owned it was like this ashy gray. Oh, I never saw her. I never saw her. Yes, messed up woman who's like, what are you doing in the place? You can't be here. Like she tried to throw us out. No, that was no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, it's security lady. Let me. Yeah, let me throw this. Okay. I tell, I was the one who rented the place. So I'm the one who dealt with everybody. The young lady who had rented this place was like, you guys got to leave. You got to go. And we're like, what are you talking about? She's like, you're going to get, you know, you're going to get me in trouble. And I was like, why? Because you weren't supposed to rent this place in the first place. And then, and then her mom finally got on the phone and her mom was fine. Her mom was nice. Yeah. But then she was like, he's like, no, don't worry about it. It was the security lady who hated us. The whole state, like get the crazy, like, death stairs, the whole time. It was a different place. There was an old lady who was horrible, who was telling us to leave that whole time. It was that place. It was that it was that place, John. It definitely was. When I got there, the whole thing with the smelling gas had just happened. And I get there because I didn't come up with you that year. And I'm starting to unpack. And John is like, hey, not so fast. I'm like, what are you talking about? We might have to go. And I'm like, what are you talking about? It's like 10 o'clock. And I'm like, you're like, just don't pack. We may have to find another place. And I'm like, oh, okay. And then, but then I was putting the pieces together because again, when I went up there, it was, it was always that secure. It was like she was the only security person. Yes. There was no other shift. But anyway, then I was like, I was like, oh, she was giving me issues going up. And she was, it was like I was there to rob the plate. And then I was like, okay, this is all coming together. And then it was like, and then the next day, in the evening, I thought everything was smoked over. And then John, you were just like, hey, I think we're going to have to go still. Wait, what? We're still dealing with this? Like, it was like a 72 hour straight ordeal in between seeing movies. I definitely remember that. That was 2016. Maybe that's the reason we come back in 2017 to deal with shit like this. Well, but it's funny talking about this. It's like tracing the whole history of like vacation, rental arrangements where it's like, do people go to hostels anymore? I feel like hostels got replaced with Airbnb's in some fundamental way, like four people in a dormitory of strangers paying like 18 bucks a night. And then I remember the first year we stayed in a hostel. It was like, holy shit, there's a microwave in here. Like, we can put stuff in the fridge, you know, like, this is like being at somebody's house. This is fucking fantastic. Those things are back now. Hostels are back and hotels are back now. I wouldn't say because and the first hand experience hearing, you know, all this horse, it's like, they want you to do chores. I remember I went to South Carolina. No, I went to South Carolina once. And it's this long ass note like, hey, we had to leave in a hurry. Just so you know garbage today is tomorrow so you can take the trash out. There's some dirty dishes in the sink. If you could do those for me, blah, blah, blah. And it was like, what the fuck is this? And then you hear all these like horror stories after like even worse stuff where it's just like, you have to. And they're no longer inexpensive. The whole, I remember that first time we stayed in an Airbnb was like, this is half the price of a hotel for this, like where we're getting away with murder. But then after, then they started to go up and up and then it was almost the equivalent. It's like what happened with zip car. At first it was like, oh, but then towards the end, zip car was like for half as much. I could just rent a car for 24 hours. What the hell is this? Yeah, but after John and I stayed. Oh, sorry, gone. I was going to say the place we got in 2018 was great. It was big. And it was one block away from Scotia Bank. It was like a week later, I was like, I'm going to get that place for next year. And it was gone already. Yeah. But it's funny, Marcus, that you bring up the 2016 issues we had with the living arrangements because it's like, oh, well, that was a total negative experience. And it's funny that I think of it as like one of the best years because another negative experience I had there was, I'd see Manchester by the sea already. And you guys were going to go see like a night screening of an extra PNI. And I was like, Martin, you've got to see this movie. So take my pass and like go see it with these guys. And they were doing a screening of Moonlight, which Marcus, I remember you were the first one to be like, hey, this is this film like there's somebody, you know, we should see Moonlight while we're up here. Yeah. And the moon and moonlight was playing halfway across town. It was like 10 blocks down from where we were. So I went to see it and like it fricking rained. I was like stuck in this heavy rain. And I got there. And for some reason, they weren't letting people in. So I was standing outside for like 40 minutes, just waiting to get a seat. And I was like, fuck this. And I left. I went all the way back to the light box, because I need to key to the to the Airbnb, which Chris had. And so I went up and I was just like, hey, I just need to get a key from some guy. And they're like, no, no, no, it's it's booked. Oh, yeah. And I was like, I don't want to see the movie. I fucking seen it already. I just need to get a key from a guy in there. I need to give them there for two seconds. And then they were finally like, if someone leaves, you can go in. I was like, I don't need a seat. What did you do? I was like losing my mind drenched, you know, from head to foot. And just like, oh my God. And then of course, he ended up adding a moonlight P and I screaming after all. So that was still a great experience. 2016 was also a Birth of a Nation year. And that was like literally a week before it was set to play the concert, which again, you know, to be fair, that that was a controversy that popped up every few years. It wasn't something new. The whole thing with Nate Parker. But anyway, just the it hit and really shit had really hit the fan. But, you know, it had already been sold and everything. And I remember I went there. And it's just like, it's like me and like a couple of like, it was a sparse screen. It was like me, a couple of the black people. And they all kind of look at me like they give me the like, you know, like one of those things and I'm just like, ah, I'm like, I feel like such a sellout. I don't know you guys. And these days people are like Birth of a Nation. What the fuck is that? Yeah, this was set to be the most important film of the year. And it shows the phoniness because it had the scandal not happened or had been put to bed, you know, years ago and like, it would have been, it would have been the most important people would have been the same people that condemned it would have been like, oh, it's such a great movie. They, they, they, I would bet my life on it. Absolutely. The shared experience in 2019 markets have seen Lostoka Roshi together and then being like, holy shit, holy shit, that was great. I think it was the last time I really had that experience at Toronto to be like, oh my God, that was a discovery. You know, yeah, I'm a comma who became a multi time guest on zebra's in America a year or two later. I'm using super, super nice guy. That, that was a really fun, that was a fun, fun experience. Another movie. I didn't. That was your last time you felt like discovery, John. You don't, you didn't feel like self portrait as a copypot and Blind Willows Sleeping Women were big discoveries. No, I mean, those were, I think they were both minor discoveries. Like, I really like those movies a lot, but even, you know, self portrait, you would already kind of talk this guy up. So I was like, okay, this will be something. And then Blind Willows, like, that was really good. I really liked that. I'm glad it was good. Now, like, oh my God, I found something else. That's great. So interesting. Toronto, Toronto, you had a movie. He had a movie there. His, his movie before that. In 2016, it was there, 2016, this movie called Green White Green, which was fine, but it wasn't on a level of Lostoka. Lostoka Roshi was just so much, it was so much fun. Yeah, and also seeing waves together and afterwards just being like, huh, that movie. You know, it didn't, no, yeah, right. At first it was that movie, but then I like watched it again. I watched it with, with, she's not my wife. I watched it with Tim and I was like, oh, I hate this movie. Like, there's stuff that I was like, oh, I don't like the politics. I, oh, this is really, this movie really, really bothers me. And I don't like that. I'll give, I guess I'm kind of fan of his. Sterling K Brown, like, he's famous for wasting good acting on, like, really bad movies. And this is like, this is a prime example of that. It's like, oh, a good dad character in a really dumb-ass movie. Let me, let me ask you, John, for the last two years, you know, we had that horrible experience staying at the crummy hotel way out in the middle of nowhere. The last two years, we made the decision. We said, how about this? And staying at a terrible hotel, instead of coming for the whole festival and staying in bad place, let's stay in a nice hotel and only come half the amount of time, right? So we stayed at the high-end agency, like the official hotel of the Toronto Film Festival where, like, the P&I lounges and everything are set up and we stayed in that actual place there. It was just you and me, there's no Martin, Carly's not coming you more, Paul and Marcus aren't coming anymore, coming to half the festival, sort of being there. As it was happening, did it feel like, okay, we're winding this down to you? Because to me, when we started making those changes, certainly in 2022 and 2023, it felt like we're back for me, you know, in some way, like, this is back to the Toronto. And then this year, I don't know, this year it felt like it's definitely over. Like, after this festival, I don't have any illusions about, like, I'm going to eat my words and be going there again next year. Did it feel, did the winding down feel conscious or just coincidental? Like, what do you feel about that? Well, it's fine when we recorded our preview episode this year and one of the first things you said was, I think this is it. Like, I think this is going to be the last one, at least for a while. I immediately had thought of like, oh, shit, last year should have been our last one. And, you know, I don't know if I just had those words burning in the back of my head that thought, but like, as we talked about in our review episode, you know, it's just like, it wasn't the same this year, it felt like we stayed a year too long. You know, we should have wound this thing up, gone off on like a positive note, and it was a bad experience for the very first time. So, yeah, I definitely felt that sense of finality, and also the sense of like we've overstayed our welcome here at the Toronto Film Festival. Yeah, the city wants us gone. What do you make of the fact that the Eagles have so frequently played the Falcons on opening day and now we're playing them in week two of the season? What are you, why? There's the Eagles Falcons rivalry. What do you make of that fact? I don't know what to make of that fact. I don't know how football scheduling works. Feels very strange. Feels very strange for the big it's weird looking back and seeing that they played the Browns opening day one year. You didn't tell the story of the you got to tell the 2008 story, according to your memory of going up to the Toronto Film Festival. This will be the last going up to TIFF on the town story that we tell on this. So, yeah, 2008 the Eagles, I will just say for context, played the Rams in their crazy, the Eagles were in their crazy throwback 1930s jerseys, the notorious like yellow and baby blue jerseys. It was an incredible game by Brian Westbrook. They won 38 to three. They they breeze to victory, but tell the rest of it, John. So, when I was trying to like compile this list of like who went up and like what were we doing and what played and everything 2008 has always been the easiest one for me to remember just because there were so many things going on. In my life at that time, it's when my then girlfriend now wife, Jordana Kalman went to grad school in London. So she was gone and I was staying with my parents for the year in Northern Virginia. So going to Toronto was a big deal for me. I was like, I really want to go up there. I got to get away from Northern Virginia for a while. So I just planned an extended time up in New York and then up to Toronto. So I came up. We all met up. We were hanging out in New York for a while. And then the day we were meant to go was you, me, Paul and our friend Eric friender went to see opening day. And it was a very eventful, fun opening day. Do you remember the name of the place we went to. It was a scruffy duffies. It's a scruffy duffies. It might have been Lansdowne Road at that point. They were two associated bars and Hell's Kitchen. One scruffy duffies was a Steelers bar that had incredible wings that I like going to see games at. And that closed at some point and it's like sister bar Lansdowne Road, which was like two blocks away and like virtually identical in almost every way where I started going to watch the games there. It was an exciting opening day. The Patriots, of course, were coming off of their 16 and 0 season. And Tom Brady gets knocked out of the game and he's gone for the rest of the season immediately. First game of the year. Everyone went nuts. So they're fun games. And they had this bar. This bar started chanting 18 and one. Right. When he got knocked out, this entire bar just started chanting 18 and one in reference to them going undefeated in the regular season and then losing the Super Bowl. Go on. So this bar had a giant wheel. When you spun it, you know, people could win, you know, free booze or whatever. The way the way the wheel worked. You want to tell the story? Well, because it's not just that you spin the wheel and win free booze, right? Do you remember how the wheel worked? Everybody was affected by the wheel somehow. The way. Yeah. This is why I'm jumping in because you're clearly right. You would spin the wheel and it would land on like interception return for a touchdown kickoff return for a touchdown. You know, sack fumble. You know, that kind of, there were various football plays that it would land on. And if that play happened in the half of the game. So there's four games. Or there's four halves. There's a first and second half to the early games, first and second half to the to the second game. So you have four chances they spin the wheel and if in that half that play happens. Right. Everybody in the bar got a giant tower of beer. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes, you're right up to there. What happened was, if they landed on that, you got a free round, whatever you had just ordered, you got a free round, right? We had ordered a giant tower that we were getting, you know, that we were getting here out of. So twice in a row during the games they spun this wheel and there was some one of these selections was simply just free round. We had nothing to do with any of the plays. It was just free round for everybody. And twice in a row. They hit that. So we got three giant towers of beer while we're watching these games. And then, and then they hit a third time right before we left to the third time it was insane. Four giant towers of beer. And this is me when I'm in my hard drink and phase. And with John cribs who is not a drink and man, and Paul Cooney who does not drink at all. So Eric friender and I were essentially together splitting four giant towers of beer. So I drank plenty of beer myself. But yeah, you guys were drinking a lot. You got obliterated. And now the afternoon game is over and we need to go to Toronto. Paul Cooney does not drive. So it's your car. So I have to drive and you pass out in the back seat. So Paul Cooney and I drive up to Albany. We stop it all to me at like the TGI Fridays for dinner. We leave you in the car sleeping. Why watch the night game. Yeah, go on. We watch the night game. It's bait manning in the Colts. We watched the entire game in the TGI Fridays. We make another stop before we leave as well. We don't get on the road to Toronto. That's what I thought you were going to judge you guys went to decar lows, which is this incredibly. It's not even sleazy. It's like a mom and pop strip club outside of Albany where I had filmed part of a movie so they knew me there at decar lows. It's, it's a very strange place. It's a very, very strange place. I know you didn't want to mention going to decar lows because, you know, you're modest in that way, but going to decar lows is a is a pretty funny thing to have done. It's a pretty funny dinner made. We stopped at decar lows. So we don't get on the road to Toronto until about one o'clock in the morning at this point. And we drive all the way up there. You're totally asleep the entire time. You don't make a peep. We, we, we roll up into town. Were you concerned I was dead with the amount I drank? No, because you would like, you know, shift around or whatever. You know, we knew you were okay. But it was just funny because there's me and Paul hanging out. And then we got up there. Right. We stopped right in front of the theater. And it was like nine o'clock and we're like, Chris, we're here and you just took off. You didn't say anything. You just got out of the car and went straight into the theater. They're like, bye. And Paul and I were staying at for the first day or two. We were saying his friend's house, which was like another hour north of Toronto. So we like drove up there. And his friends wanted to hang out and like talk and everything. And I was like, Oh my God, guys, I haven't fucking slept in over a day and a half at this point. I just want to go to spleezers. Give me a place to go to sleep. Why weren't you staying at the hotel with me? I guess we weren't able to. I can't remember the details, but for whatever reason, we had to stay with Paul's friends for like a night or two before we went back down to Toronto. Interesting. So that was that. That's that story. It's fun. It's fun hanging out with everybody. Marcus, any other Toronto memories that you want to highlight? What's the with just just don't overthink it. Don't look through a list. Single best film you saw Toronto. Most universe loves. Excellent. Single worst film you saw Toronto. Oh my God. Shit. Oh my God. Don't overthink it. Just one arrival arrival arrival. That's a good terrible movie. And what's your what's your award for the Donnie Brook award for bad movie that you enjoyed running all of the jokes through and making fun of for the duration. It's a real Donnie Brook up there. John, single best film you saw at the course of the history of the festival. I wish that Marcus had been there for finest kind. We would all be talking making finest kind jokes right now. I want to start with my worst one. Yes. The beautiful days of Aaron's US. Oh, oh, that is a fucking shit bump. Yeah. Yeah. That's one that's like he's done. He's washed up. There's no way he's coming back. It's true. Single best movie you saw there. Don't overthink it. Perfect days. Perfect. What a clever pairing John cribs. Thank you. And what's your and what's your Donnie Brook award for finest kind. It's not for Donnie Brook. How could it not be for Donnie Brook? Oh, my God. His finest kind was up there. And this year, we had a lot of fun making mountain jokes. Yeah. There are so many just legendary bad movies. Like I said, we're tacked it on a certain date. It's Sukiaki Jenga Western that whole year we did the Tarantino impression in that movie. Yeah. You are Tarantino being racist. You know, we did that for every movie we saw that year. The Tarantino and Sukiaki Jenga Western in present. Absolutely. That's a good one too. Chris Funderberg. What is the best movie you saw it to try and film festival in the 20 years you've been going there? I'm going to go another year. I'm going to go with another. Yeah. White ribbons close second, but another year. Another year and a Christmas Taylor just two movies that I saw. I was like, you know, these movies, all the cliches of like this movie changed my life. It's blown me away. I'm not going to think about things the same way those reactions. Yeah, for both of those films. I think I'm going to go Christmas tail. I think I'm going to go Christmas tail just because of how much I associate it with a festival and early in life, and just the point at which it hit me. I think that that feels like a bigger pick to me somehow. All three of those movies, another year, Christmas tail and now perfect days are movies I watch all the time too. I'm back to you all the time. Single worst movie was a movie I saw this year called It Doesn't Get Me Better Than This. You have to see this thing. This is three Tom Dweicher's three level bad. This is uncertainty level bad. Maybe got better after you walked out of it. It certainly couldn't have gotten worse. It's worse than Doggy Dog. Definitely Doggy Doggy Doggy is just a regular bad movie. Doggy Dog's not even the worst Paul Schrader movie I saw up there. I saw the Walker up there. The Walker's got to be one of the worst with Woody Harrelson as a southern gentleman who accompanies ladies to gala events. Oh, darling. This is Woody Harrelson saying all this. Don't talk about Oscar Wilde. Anybody but wild. Anything but wild. It's got to be our first Donnie Brooke as quote that we just said so many times. Oh my God, that was our first Donnie Brooke. It was. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I also, with another horrible bottom of the barrel movie I saw up there, Meek's Cut-Off. That's another horrible, absolutely bottom of the barrel of Meek. Oh, to the wonder, to the wonder. That's another fucking bottom of the barrel. I have a messed up relationship with Meek's Cut-Off because I hate being a Kelly Reicard fan. And that being, it's like that in first cow being the two movies that are like, these are just the defining movies. Like those are the two worst movies. You know what I actually, yeah, absolutely she sucks. I hate, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying those two movies suck. That is it. I'll tell you, I'll tell you what the absolute fucking worst movie I saw up there was, Mr. Lonely. There's no question that Mr. Lonely or Meek's Cut-Off or to the wonder or are definitely the worst movies. I mean, you'd have to be a great sucker to defend these films in any way. Well, I don't defend any of them. I just like two of the three. I'm joking. And I really like one of them. Yeah, I mean, obviously. I don't like Meek's Cut-Off. I saw Alan Dromes and Life During War time up there. Did you really? Yeah. Oh, man, Tout-O-Lanza is a terrible track record with Toronto. His three worst movies played there. Goddamn. No, but I am a Kelly. It's when you say, you know, you're a Kelly Reicard fan. So everyone assumes that you like all of the movies, which I don't and that's it's all Meek's Cut-Off and First Gout. Those are the movies that everyone seems to think are like her masterpieces. I'll tell you the opposite of those. I'll tell you the movie that most disappointed me and knock the air out of me for disappointment was the ward. John Carpenter's the ward. That was the most disappointed I've been. I watched that movie because of the thing you guys wrote about it on Twitter, not Twitter on the pink smoke. And then I was like, oh, I didn't even know this movie existed. And I was like, yeah, it's like, it's more so, it's too easy. Oh, it's movies terrible. It's like, what the fuck is this? It's more like, it's like, this is fascinating. Not in a good way, but it's fascinating. I watched like you guys. What's John, what's your definitive like, TIFF discovery where you feel like I discovered this at TIFF and I wouldn't have otherwise seen it and nobody was telling me to see it. And I just went and I went and I got it and I didn't know it was going to be there regardless of what it's gone on to be, you know. Hmm, again, it's tough. Like I said, there were always movies like mall girls or sad vacation where it's like, I'm so excited to know this movie thanks to the festival. But I got to go with Super, the James Gunn movie because we were James Gunn fans already. We knew he was great, but there was no indication that Super was going to be anything exciting until we saw it and was like, oh, that was great. The book had been great, not his movies, you know, like before that was great. Yeah, no, the movie said not been great at that. But that, well, no, no, he did slither. So it was great. Oh, you're right. You're right. You're right. Yeah. Marcus for you. What's, was it, is it Manjar Lazar? Or the inheritance? Amour is my big, amour is my biggest disappointment. Yeah, I'm more and more was a huge discipline. I haven't failed. I think if if he didn't make what he made after Amour, if he made like another great Austrian type movie, I think Amour would sit better with him. Yeah. Real. It's like a one off. Yeah. But it, but it was just like, oh, you're doing this again. Yeah. My, my essential tip pick is empty box. That's the one that I feel like didn't see it coming at all really blew me away. Announced a real talent. Sure. What's your biggest disappointment, Marcus? Oh, my God. We need to talk about Kevin. Oh, yeah. Yeah. A thousand percent, a thousand percent. Yeah. And do you think, Marcus, what scenario can you imagine going back up there? Do you think the chapter is closed on TIFF for you or do you think something? I'm not going to be closed, but you know, you know, over these years, I've talked with Tam about splitting and kind of making a vacation out of it. We're like, when I want to go see my movie, she could deal with Nathaniel and then that's not the idea. She'll be with Nathaniel and then we can do stuff that's a family afterwards, but it's not closed. It's just, you know, the doors closed. It's just not locked. I guess I guess I'll say, you know, yeah. I feel like I'll go back because I've been going Parker's entire life and he asks about it a lot. And I'd like to go with if Parker was going to go, you know, when he gets an age, we can do it. You know, you know, I think in earliest, that'll be four years from now, five years from now. But that'd be really fun to do to go up with him. I think that that would be the impetus for me to go back. You, John, as much as I, you know, enjoy going up with you, Chris, just the two of us like it's, it feels, you know, not as fun without Marcus without Martin coming by. And I'll be honest, even without Paul, you know, like, it's, you know, it's, it's always the more the merrier and it's always a great companion. I hear the Woody, the Woody Harrison character and the Walker is based on him is actually what I heard about that. Interesting. It's interesting. No, never say never, but you know, we'll see. I mean, everything we talked about in the review this year, Chris, you know, it's like, do I want to see any new movies ever again, Toronto to see them. It was that level of, you know, just like frustration and am I, am I done, you know, not just the festival, but like am I done as like a film appreciator and a viewer. Do I need a few years to just chill out and just watch, you know, 1940s Japanese movies. Yeah, am I just disappointing into my old tombs in the library, you know, is that just is that where I'm at? Am I, you know, mountain wizard now, you know, yeah. Well, thanks for listening to everybody. If you manage to make it through this. This is like I said, this is, this is for the experts. This is a 404 class, not a 101. This is, I think, very specialized material. But I did want to talk about TIFF some and not not leave it on such a negative note. You know, I feel like we didn't, we didn't talk enough about food, which is the other thing that we do there is we eat when we're in Toronto. But other than that, I feel like we did a good job of just talking about what it's meant to us and big chunk of our lives it's been part of. I missed Jake Aster since it closed after COVID just because I have associations with like me and Marcus going to Jake Aster's, you know, you miss it so much. You said its name wrong. Jack Aster's Jack Aster's right. Here's what it's called. She's right there. So good. I'll speak in a food. I only hope because it's been, oh my God, it's been 13 years since we met him. I hope that Joe, the our waiter. I hope he has, I hope he has four kids. He owns a successful laundry mat. I hope he's just or, or no, I hope, I hope the owner of that diner was like you're a good kid. I'm going to leave it to you. Wasn't that just a Denny's? No, it wasn't Denny's. No, it was like a one off. Oh wait, maybe it wasn't Denny's. Oh, it wasn't Denny's. Yes, it was. Either way, I hope that guy's doing great in life because he was, he was like one of the nicest, most positive guys. And you were an asshole to. No, Paul Cooney was like, he like stopped him in his tracks. He like heard his feelings because when Paul Cooney talks, he, the way he pronounced the guy thought he's like, oh, we need to mention two things before we hang it up. Shout out to sportos and Batavia, New York, as always, the great sportos. And second thing is on the trip. We're souls go to die. On the trip. We had a ritual on the trip. John and I, I had a CD of like Frank calls and outtake footage like, you know, buddy rich yelling at his band and Elvis Presley. Talking to I was all they said I was strung out and I had gotten the CD when I program touch of evil and I think 2004. I was looking for the clips of Orson Welles doing the commercials and yelling at the sound engineers, right? You know, the like in July, you've got to not lose your head here folks. And so I had found a listing where a college radio station had shown these clips. This is like YouTube is in its infancy. It's still hard to find rarities like this. This is stuff I had heard somewhere when I was young and I sent an email. No, I couldn't have sent an email. I bet I called up this college radio station and was like, Hey, where did you get those Orson Welles clips? I'm doing this screening of touch of evil and I want to play the clips before the movie. The movie has like, it's going to be introduced. We're going to show the original trailer and I'd love to play these clips too. Can you give me a copy from wherever you got him? He was like, Oh, yeah, sure. Super nice guy. And I got in the mail like a couple days later this CD with not just the Orson Welles clip. It was like a bird handmade CD, Longmont potion castle, Pat bowler in the weftling fascist. John when John when the great Sean when and we would listen to this every single drive up and down for it was like the Toronto ritual as we would put on the like, you know, I'm going to give that like, I'm going to give that like a two. You got to come with the hardcore shit. You got to come with the hardcore shit. You know, just like these amazing, amazing, you know, though, like, so that's a good unit, spread on this jacket, just like these clips of like Jerry Lewis talking about, you know, out takes on the, on the fucking the caddy. Which one are they doing? Do the caddy for me real quick, John. I come when I come home to my bed, there's a strange and I do mean strange guy in my bed turns out to be you with a big pack on it. It's red. All of these out takes were incredible. Who was the guy that was yelling at his band. Buddy rich, but that was buddy rich. You guys can't stay on beat. I've stayed with the fucking best people in the fucking world. And you guys can't even stay on beat for one fucking second. You're fucking morons. You make me sick. Can I come into your backyard and get my turtle. Well, I don't know who this is. Um, yeah, that thing was amazing. You're blocking associates. How may I help you? And just not labeled. So you're sitting there going, what am I listening to? This is Elvis. I think this is Elvis we're listening to, you know, I am a Graham. Are you gonna, are you gonna, are you gonna play the group? I'm gonna, I'm gonna put at the end of this episode. I'll put as soon as we're done here in 15 seconds. Pat will learn the left wing fascist. My, my base player says he saw you admire him. He said you saw admire him on him. Now, what is it? No, what is it? Anything else we need to mention? We got sportos, Niagara Falls, driving across the long kiss Goodnight Bridge. Anything else we need to say? Shout out to Little Falls. It's always fun crossing over the border and just this weird tension of like, what if we don't get it? What if there's some problem? Especially the year I forgot my passport. And we were seriously like, maybe she's just getting the trunk and I'll drive us through. Goodnight everybody. Great. I can call it hard, but I can help you. Yeah, let me talk to Pat Bola. Pardon me? Pat Bola. The manager. Sorry, I can't hear you. Pat Bola. The manager. Okay, hopefully. Oh, Zany there from left wing fascist. I'm the manager. Hey, Danny. Hey, who are you? I'm Pat. I'm the manager of the car. Just Pat Bola. Yeah. Well, what is it? What? We got some missing equipment there. We played there a few days ago. You got missing equipment. Yeah, we're missing a Sennheiser and a Shure SM58. What is it? The base player said he saw your sound man admiring the equipment, complimenting on it. I'll check with my head. Hey, do you have it run sound? No. Because he said he thought the person's name was Pat Bola. That's why I called and asked for you. The manager of the club. Well, were you admiring our equipment? No. He hit the base player. The base player told me Pat Bola. And then he said later on he thought he saw a couple of microphones in your pocket. Oh, he's full of shit. Oh, I don't know about that. I've known this guy for years. We go up together. We're like this. I was wearing a pair of black jeans in here that night. And I don't think I was anywhere near your stage. Well, I don't know. Did you see? Hey. Hey, did you watch the show? Did you monitor the show area there? Did you walk around to make sure people weren't doing shit they wasn't supposed to do? Because maybe maybe maybe I don't know. Maybe you had a brain fart or something and you just picked this shit up. Maybe you just picked it up by accident. I don't know. Well, I don't know. We're out about a thousand. You know, some goddamn microphone. He saw you admiring him, God damn it. And we're never. Hey. Hey, we're not going to play your shitty fucking club ever fucking again. Hey, don't get at you. I look great. Hey, I got a fucking attitude, God fucking damn it. Now, what is it? I didn't touch nothing to yours. And no one, no one, I know up there either. They was in your goddamn pocket, punk. They saw you. I'm not full of shit, God damn it. I know I've been in this business for years and I know there's a lot of shit like you lurking around looking to take somebody's equipment, God damn it. Now to give me a call. Well, I'll tell you what. Big fat owl told me to call you. And he isn't happy. I don't think he wants to talk to you after this shit. I didn't touch anything to yours, sir. I don't know who you are. That's bullshit, God damn it. They saw him in your pocket. They ain't seen nothing in my pocket. You was admiring him and now you ain't wound up in your pocket. Well, I'll tell you what, owl is here right now. You tell owl to give me a call. Yeah, why don't you look in your fucking house? Maybe you'll find a man, right? I have nothing in yours in my pocket. Yeah, we'll see about that punk later. [BLANK_AUDIO]