Farmer Sense
Tryston Beyrer Crop Nutrition Lead w/Mosaic
Hello everyone. Welcome to the Farmer Since podcast. I am your host Rick Willard. I'm a little stuffed up from allergies. So I sound like I had a long night of drinking last night, which I kind of did, but that has nothing to do with my voice. And Andrew Fluff is with us and he sounds good. I don't know if I know that part. I've had that crap before. So I was really, mine was from working on the combine. I put in those estus concaves and grates I got them to. And I'll tell you one thing. Those, those estus ones are, Oh God, I bet they're 20 pounds heavier than the OEM ones. Holy shit. I got the OEM, you know, I've taken the concaves out before because I'll put filler plates in or whatever. Wow. The grates. Those were heavy. That was more than one man needed to handle, especially like when you're bent over into the compartment and trying to like hold them in my back was already hurting. My back hasn't bothered me all summer. And then of course yesterday morning, I'm telling my dad, Oh God, my back's killing me. And I'm gonna do that. Yeah, big old pry bar outside, kind of trying to push them and hold them up. Oh, I don't know if that job on a 43 year old and an 80 year old. Sure. I just I figured he was the one putting them in and you were the one out holding the pry bar. Yeah, probably would have had better luck. And so the one on the right side was the hardest to do the right rear, because there's that like deflector plate inside there and the or the inside where the rotor's at. And I was fighting that because I kept hooking on it and banging on it. And all of a sudden I got it in place and dad's like, well, how the heck did that all of a sudden go into place? And I said, I quit caring about it. I got all I got all pissed off and just started ramrod. And then it finally went in. But when I was trying to be careful, I couldn't get damn thing in there. But I put a piece of plywood down on the floor, nothing would get banged up or anything. So that's my story. Team ramrod. I like it ramrod. There's a little super trooper reference there. Yeah, check out my new camera. If you're watching on YouTube, it's wider. So now I have to clean up my office down in the basement. Nice. I had to cover up some stuff here. Amy has embroidery threads. Oh, that's not what I was going with. No. Yeah, well, so I covered up some of that with a beautiful Dallas Cowboys blanket. I didn't get a Saints one after last weekend. Yeah, I heard about that. Thank God. I didn't get to watch it. I don't have any ticket or anything cool like that. So yeah. Or you didn't thank God they didn't go to that game. Yeah, I can't believe they lost that bad at home. I know. I can't actually, but I can't die hard. Yeah. Well, anyway, I want to hear about you about me. I don't know. We've been just working on stuff, trying to get stuff ready. Semi got the green trailer, made it to, I don't even think I've told you this story yet. You don't talk to me anymore. No, I don't. You're too busy. You're doing stuff. You're always seemed busy. So I just like, fuck it. I'll just hang up and talk and just send a text. I'm very good at pretending to be busy, but you should feel good because you're the only one I'll talk to while I'm working. Yeah, I know. I'll answer on my phone. Even Kevin Calb called me two days ago and I didn't answer. Yeah, you're working and I'm like driving or something somewhere and I'm like, no, fuck it. I'm not going to bother you. So, right? No, I had a engine fault on the semi. I'm like, well, when I'm going up there to get that trailer, I will stop it, rollable on the way home and just have them put check it out, you know, see what the code is. So I stopped and it was like four o'clock with their open until midnight or whatever, you know, late place. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what they said, a lot of texts and stuff there. So at five o'clock, basically, they start diagnosing it and at nine o'clock, that's the first time I've heard anything really that they had 138 codes for the turbo and the actuator and all this other stuff. So that was what and they're like, well, we're going to take the actuator off and see if that is bad or if we can get it to work or whatever. So another hour, they're like, it's shot. Yeah, but whatever. Well, you know, here's the estimate for all the parts and stuff. Just bring the backdrop it off because like 13 hours labor for the turbo, you know, a little pressure switch and some other shit goes wrong with it. So I go, yeah, so I'm like 10 o'clock. I'm heading out. I go hook up the trailer again, get ready to go home from Des Moines. I pull out of the onto the street to get to the interstate. I can't go over five miles an hour and it's smoking like a mother bear. So I had to creep at 10 o'clock at night at three to five miles an hour until I could find a place to turn around to go back. And then I left it. And then Carly came in, saved me at midnight because I closed at midnight. She got there at 11.52 and then we got home about 1.15. So the truck's still up there. That was through weathers today, Friday with Tuesday night. Okay, so yep, combined my first corn yesterday. I got a whopping 1,000 and eight bushel. And it was phenomenal, everybody. It was okay. Oh, okay. Yep. Did 3.17 acres. Okay. Yeah, that's pretty. How many bushel was it? 1,000? You got to figure that out. I said it once. You have to just look back at it. 1,000 and eight. 1,000 and eight. So, okay. Pretty nice. Yeah. For right around the buildings on the andros. Yeah, pretty good. Yeah. But it was what? It was 24%. Oh, well, that's perfect. I don't know what. Not really. I wish it'd be. Oh, you don't dry though, do you? No. Yeah. I really, I'm going to do some more today is the plan. But look at dumbass. I planted some 116 day right around the shed there. So, I got to do some andros. So, I get to the 113 day that's probably like 21%. So, I'm going to do a little blind as your friend today. That'd be my plan. Is your corn still green and the ears are yellow and dropping or is everything kind of yellow? I haven't seen anything. Oh, everything. Everything's pretty green on the top. Yeah. All my green is grass. Yeah. My Christmas corn is super green. Oh, hey. My replant June 12th corn. It is really, really green. Yeah. But I think I learned a few things where the center of the heggy was my wide drops. I didn't burn the bottom leaves as much. And out on the ends where I had to have it up higher, I burned more of those lower leaves. I don't know if that's going to mean anything on the eel, but just tells me I got to maybe lower it and push some corn a little bit. No, it it shouldn't because you're able to grow green leaves up above the ear, right? I mean, but I mean, if you're burning any ears from the or leaves from the ear up, then you definitely have to do with photosynthesis. But if everything was below, I don't really consider that damaging. Yeah. And where the middle of the heggy ran, I'd say it's green almost all the way down to the bottom. Okay. So, good. Just something I've learned. I don't know if it means anything, but I've learned something. So, no, that's about it. I'm looking forward to this afternoon to get into some of that new Pioneer 113-day four seed that they're really hyped up about. I think it's my dealer said he thinks that Pioneer says it's going to be the number one or two seven hybrid in the next couple of years. So, I think I had 12 bags of it, so I don't have very much of it. Well, I'm sure they'll have a priced price to really price appropriately. Yeah. And you told me you got some seed bot already. Yeah. I didn't know if I should talk about that or not, but well, you can don't have to get into all the details, but you said you got seed bot for next year. Yep. Yeah, I got my just bags, right? You didn't pick your hybrids, have you? Uh, no, I went through and picked hybrids. Really? They can be changed, of course, but right. Got a couple of conventional numbers. Really? Yep. Yep, sure did. I'm going to try them out. Not a lot. 60 units worth. Make sure I plan it in the middle of my fields because I got, I don't know. I don't trust the guy spraying next to me. Let's put it that way. I would trust you more. I wouldn't trust me more. I wouldn't go that far. Somebody told me, I was telling somebody yesterday, a friend of mine, Michael Hogan. I said, yeah, corn was pretty good, but if I wouldn't ran over so much corn spraying and turning, it was wide wrap and fun as I passed. It probably would be a lot better. He goes, well, since you're the operator, you can't bitch about it anymore. I'm like, yeah, I said I was the one that ran it over. So sprayer blight. Yeah, I definitely had plenty of rubber blight. Um, though, back to the wide drops, you have easy drops. Do they come in longer lengths that you should have along this one? Oh, okay. That was all I was wondering. No, you're again. It's just super tall corn. I know it's and mine is super short this year, put over your head about seven eight foot tall. Wow. You don't have much rather do that. No, it'd be great. Yeah. I have great beans next year. Yep. If you're gonna plant beans, I can plant beans. Yep. And I'm gonna spray them. I'm gonna spray them this year too, unlike, or next year, unlike this year. Yeah. There you go. For weeds, I mean. Oh, I didn't know where we're going. Yeah. Again, it says your sample next year. Weedy fucking mess. Yes, I will. Oh, okay. I'm gonna hold you to it. Unless it. Unless it starts off like it did this year that I won't. Yeah. Oh, can't wear out those boots. Remember ROI mode. I understand. I ain't gonna walk any more than I have to because I can't afford boots. I did find or see a pair on Facebook though exactly like what I wear for 25 bucks. Wow. Slightly used my size and everything. I couldn't pull a trigger though. I thought it was five dollars too high. I thought 20 would have been plenty. Andrew just sneezed. I know I need to. That's the problem. I was trying to meet my mic and then it. Well, I'll tell you what, let's end this intro and we got one of your guests. Yep, Tristan Breyer. I never say. Yeah, I never say is the last name, right? So, I sympathize with him since I have that happen to myself. But yeah, he is the crop nutrition lead with mosaic biosciences. I got to meet him when I went out to Illinois. And I've met him before but had some great conversations when I went to St. Louis the following week. Kevin, I had great conversations about his farm that he farms in Wisconsin and just had some interesting questions that he could answer and just a new way of different approach to things and way of thinking. So, super interested about that and just I was like, well, this would be a great thing to be talking about on our podcast. So, he graciously graciously said he would do it. Good. I'm looking forward to it. So, let's take a break. Word from our sponsors and we'll get right back to you. And we're back from a word with our sponsors. We got Tristan Breyer here with us. He's the crop nutrition lead with mosaic. He, I think Andrew touched base on it in the intro that Andrew had met him a couple times with his dealings with mosaic. So, Tristan, thank you for being here. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. Thank you very much for having me. Yeah, thanks for joining us. I think Andrew is going to kind of add up the question asking here. So, Tristan, you're the crop nutrition lead with mosaic. You and I met in Illinois and St. Louis and all that fun stuff. But, kind of give us some of your background, some of your education. I know that you were, you went to Illinois for a little while. So, go ahead. Yeah. So, I've been a few different areas. So, I grew up in Northwestern Wisconsin and actually that's where I'm back to now. I help operate a green farm, but obviously growing up, it was a very farm. So, all the cows and just able to be back in the whole area now in Wisconsin, supported with my dad, brother, wife and kids, grow out a lot of 100 acres of mostly corn and soybeans now, a little bit of alfalfa in there. But, a lot of what inspired me to go off into school beyond my undergrad from Wisconsin River Falls was to look at maybe how to grow corn and soybeans a little bit better and what better relates to do that than in the middle of the corn soybean belt. So, after deliberating between a few different schools, I went down to the University of Illinois. Specifically, I was in the Crop Physiology Lab there with Dr. Fred Bielo and I worked on my masters. And then, long short of it is, I ended up becoming the field technician and oversaw a lot of the research and coordination of the trials there and while I was working on as a field technician for overseeing his research studies was working on my PhD. So, I was fortunate. Ultimately, I come out with a masters in PhD, but like anything I say, a lot of that was just driving thirst for more knowledge and information. I really liked the opportunity to work with a lot of different companies across the industry and it was a great networking opportunity to really see how a lot of different things can work in different atmospheres because there's no silver bullet to growing better crop yields. A lot of my emphasis was on soil fertility, but it was, I call it high yields fertility scenarios for corn and soybean production systems. So, what was your master's thesis on, I guess? So, my master's thesis was actually on, well, there's, there is never just one project. There were so oftentimes several different projects, but a lot of it was around phosphorus efficiency and utilization. You know, there is to be different components within that. And then my, my PhD dissertation or thesis was essentially, if you've heard of the seven wonders of the corn yield world, basically I did a several years of synopsis on that. The six secrets of soybean success, different management factors that would rank some of the productivity levels within that. Also, just a lot of banded fertility work, which really inspired me to take even some thoughts back home on how do we place and utilize nutrients a little bit more efficiently, whether it would be, you know, strip till or banded scenarios compared to that of your traditional broadcast applications. One of my favorite projects was just kind of ad hoc projects, but looking at even our high yield, we call it quest for 500 bushel corn or quest for, you know, 100 bushel beans. And it took, took a little bit effort. I want to say we got all the way there. We were over 100 bushel beans, but I guess our top yields replicated were about 400 to some bushels, but they're a small plot and, you know, replicated over a few different sites. And we can manage it a little bit differently than whole-field scales. Hey, Tristan, what's it like? We're working with Dr. Bilo. It seems like we've had a lot of guests that worked with him lately, or I've talked to a lot of people anyway. Well, I mean, is he like to yell at people and call names or see a nice guy? I'm just joking. You know, get into that. So anyone has seen Dr. Bilo. A lot of times they're known for his presentation, presentation style. There's none others that can emulate exactly the way he presents, and oftentimes very good agronomy kind of presentations, but he likes to bring a little bit of humor to it as well. And from an advisor standpoint, I'd say there's no others that are out there that can really give you the direction. He'd give you the space to figure things out for yourself, but he would be very blunt if where there was opportunities for improvement or things along those lines. And you'll see that in his mentoring style, but I think it really gives a lot of character to the individuals that he's brought through for students to hopefully make them not only understand the different research, but being involved in a lot of the different aspects of managing a crop. You're not just involved in one trial, so you get the opportunity to see, say, holistic crop management instead of, say, pigeon in your hole on yourself into just, this is my project, and this is all I need to know. So you look, you know, work with a number of different students and a number of different projects, and that can make your your vision a lot wider open, and also it can help you with, you know, having opportunities to present, which I think a lot of times, if you can't communicate what you're seeing and the research that you're doing and why it's impactful for growers and or industry or, you know, research funding or whatever those dollars are for business propositions, there's a there's a lot to be had on understanding why is your research important and impactful. Gotcha. So from all the research, what's the one thing that you brought back to your family farm that you feel was the most bang for its buck? So I see there's there's a lot of different things. There's a couple of things that I would reflect upon. Good and bad, and part of it's you have to know, you have to understand the exact management system and why something works in the area that you're testing it. So like, you know, in Illinois, I say, well, one of the challenges going down to the Illinois to do research on soil fertility is the blast with these dark, rich soils that are, you know, five, six feet deep of top soil, and I go up to Wisconsin, I'm lucky if I can get it six inches deep type of thing. And I say we had to be better growers in those outside of the corn bill to grow, you know, good good crops consistently. But a couple of things is it's it's there's no silver bowl. So essentially it takes close to crop management, you know, several different things that you're doing a little bit at a time to to do better. Ones like we like to place some of our fertility, banded fertility. Ultimately, one of the things that I started researching when I was at the U of I, and then ultimately is even led me to where I am today working with mosaic is, you know, I got to work with micro sensuals or aspire before it was even named as fire. And I saw the consistency of success from those products. And that's why I use them on my operation now and I'm glad to work for a company that I'm confident in the product and how they performed in the field. So that's one example of, you know, where I came back and I started strip telling and banding fertility and, you know, using these kind of products, ones that I had not necessarily seen before, but we've seen growing and be available into our local geography. I'll give an example of something also that did not work the same way that I anticipated. And one would be, it's not that it didn't work, it's just that you have to understand shortcoming and then how to manage a little bit differently. So one of the things that we discovered is just about nitrogen management. When you look at nitrogen management on say heavier soils, dark prairie soils, one of the challenges is when is that we think of nitrogen being mobile and getting into the crop quite quickly, which is true. And a lot of times you look at grea or hydrosmol and other things, the soils and those silty clay loams are going to be that nitrogen is going to be held. And there's many times in Illinois that our pre-plan applications were almost as good or just as good as even our split applications of nitrogen. It's not that the split applications of nitrogen or your side risk applications weren't helping, they just weren't maybe the number one or two management factors that we were really seeing a big bump from yield, especially when you look at the ROI, the extra trip across the field and things along those lines. But what we found, and this was somewhat through some of my subsurface drip irrigation work where we didn't really need SDI in Illinois, but we were really trying to see how can we deliver nutrients differently throughout the crop. And two of the crop throughout the season based on the nutrient uptake groups that many are familiar with from out of that program, where we looked at when is the crop needing different nutrients. And one of the things that we tried doing was spoon feeding that crop. And if we spoon fed the crop, we'll say applying based on nutrient uptake requirements for nitrogen, but also other nutrients throughout the season, we could not hit the same yield levels when we had a strong upfront fertility program. And the reason that that was basically one of the things that set a strong story for was you need a strong foundation of fertility up front. And if you are short at any point, it's difficult or almost impossible to make that yield back up. So the reason I say that it didn't necessarily hold true when I brought it to Wisconsin is for sure you needed a strong upfront fertility. But when you look on my area, we have coarser textured soils. So that pre-planned application of nitrogen maybe wouldn't have to be as large of a mount of fertility as what we did in the I states or those heavier textured soils. And thus, the concept of those sands where they can give you a nutrients more readily to the crop quicker is easier. So ultimately, multiple applications on coarser textured soils became more standard process in farms like where I'm at in Wisconsin. Yeah, I'm sorry, Andrew, I'm going to go ahead with an example of, you know, what does a human do during the day? Do they just pile in all their food at breakfast and, you know, feel miserable for a while and just let the day go on? Because that's like a corn or soybean plant. I mean, they fill up their belly. They don't, they'll get lazy. Well, if you can just spread out that nutrition during certain times of the year, it'll take it up better. Yeah, so maybe that's kind of what you're seeing. Yeah, the other thing that I think of too is when I'm managing nutrients. And this is one I'm always challenging myself, because, you know, despite having a couple of degrees in and so fertility and not nutrition is like, every day I'm continuing to seem to learn more, you know, and it's interesting how often times you look back at some really old literature, like 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, how much we forgot. And that was just as impactful today as, as what's out there. But, you know, one of those concepts that I like to think about is, you know, your barrel or barrel state of concept, the big law of the minimum, you know, and others, basically, what's that most limiting nutrient and how we get more into that crop? And ultimately, maybe that barrel can get only so full, or even if you're thinking about your soil profile, you can only get so many nutrients into it. You can dump more on it, but some things are going to start antagonizing each other or start potentially moving through the soil profile if you get stuff out of balance. So part of it's just understanding how do you supply these nutrients and balance based on what the crop recommendations are. I'm going to ask my question about the one before, as far as spoon feeding, you said that once you get behind, you can't catch up. What's a good way to make sure you stay ahead of the curve? Can you use like historical tissue samples to kind of get a game plan based on GDUs that, you know, it needs this, or I'm historically low on this at 800 GDUs, and I need to be out there two weeks before that. I mean, I know everybody's soil is probably a little different, but what do you think? I think there's probably multiple approaches that can be taken. I think first, first fundamentally, I need to realize is what is the crop nutrient uptake requirement? And when is that occurring in the crop? So like when you get from, you know, basically V6 to V10, the crop's going to take up, you know, nutrients three, four, five x fold quicker than it will at other times of periods. So making sure you have nutrients in the soil and ready for the plants to take it up at that point will be important. As for, and that's why I say knowing when those are coming is important because if you go out there and tissues test and say, you know, V6 V8 and say, oh, shoot, I'm short, well, if you're in a dry spell and you can't effectively get those nutrients, you can go out and make an application or a top dress, but it's not necessarily going to move into the root zone and get into the crop when the crop needs it. And we're all sudden, we think we're trying to be productive or behind. So tissue tests, I think, can help, but you also need to pair it with soil tests. That's, it's really about, there are some nuances that you can tease out between the different parameters. We can go through different nutrients, but a lot of times it's trying to identify what is really off with one or the other. The, whether it's, you know, soils, if there's something that's clearly consistently deficient, even outside of your macronutrients, but, you know, you know, sulfur, your micronutrients, you know, get those corrected. I like to say, use your soil, soil test, your soil fertility is your foundation of nutrients. And then if you can supply those based on at least crop nutrient uptake or removal needs, then you can use in-season applications and, or maybe even full of your feeds or other things to complement or supplement what the crop may not be getting up based on that environmental, you know, responses and all the things like that. Because there's a lot of things that can change that nutrient uptake, whether it's your soil moisture, whether it's, you know, dry or cool spells, but I do use tissue tests across our farm. Part of it, I know you guys have been involved with some, you know, larger tissue sampling programs, but a lot of times it's just trying to set a baseline for my own operation, trying to pair it back to yield and something I'm still trying to build the database. I'm probably at its infancy where I'm, instead of making recommendations, I'm just collecting the data so that at some point I will be able to make better recommendations off of them. Yeah, so my example of tissue sampling is like a year ago, when I was doing my soybean tissue sampling, it was always spot on for 100 bushel yield goal. Well, I didn't get 100 bushel beans. Maybe I would have had I harvested them all at 13 and a half percent, you know, immediately, you know, I probably lost test weight or whatever as the dry down and, you know, back and forth, or it goes, but yeah, it's crazy how different everybody is and the timing of when you take the tissue sample. Did you have rain before? Was there a dry spell? What was the temperature? What time of day? Same with soil sampling. Did you soil sample in the spring? Did you soil sample in the summer? Did you soil sample in the fall? Was it moist? Was it a dry year? You know, did your potat or your potassium availability not show up because it was too dry? I mean, gosh, there's so many things that come into play and you have to be so consistent. That's the biggest thing. So if anything, I'll tell people out there that, you know, if you're due for soil sampling this fall and it's going to be dry and it wasn't last time, I mean, maybe you weighed another year. I'm not I'm not saying you always can, but you know, be consistent with soil moisture, be consistent with timing. That's the biggest thing. What you say, Christon, I mean, consistency? Yeah, that's, yeah, if you can try to use the same lab, try to use, try to go in at the same time of the year, you know, a lot of times your spring soil samples are going to be just a little bit higher than the fall samples just because it had more time for that residue to break back down or mineralize before your next crop. So those little differences will have an influence. Obviously, there's things like soil moisture, you can't control as much, but you know, have, you know, heavier agronomist or whoever's doing your soil sampling, you know, try to try to take some of those things in the mind. You know, I will note that as the combines get rolling, sometimes there's an urge to get till is done or something right behind them. If people can hold off and make sure they get the soil samples done properly to the right depth depth, the soil sample can have is probably as much influence on soil variability, test variability as anything. So going into, I don't say you're still seed bed, but you know, your ground before it's worked can make for better consistency and taking those samples. One of my favorite times, as you can see, it's background behind me, granted, this is from years prior, but I think the other thing too is, is you're going across the field and you're with your combine is pay attention to your yield monitor and obviously how the crop looks. And sometimes it's just picking mental notes. Like if if you have the yield maps, take a test of what's different between the high test, high yielding areas and your low yielding areas. I think in two different extremes, sometimes that happens. One of the extremes is your higher fertility spots might indicate what's better with that ground than others that you can maybe emulate and try to fix and put across more of your acres if it is fertility. But I have seen especially if guys are, I've not been managing, they're coming in new ground and they're finding some areas are more productive as sometimes those are more depleted or lower nutrients just because they've been using base rate, flat rate fertility across the field. And you know, it's looking at the next few years and we're trying to maybe, you know, make our, make our dollars go further, you'll variable rate fertility or, you know, adjusting for that yield, yield goals and zones across the field. I think we'll be an important factor. So on that note, kind of, let's talk about mosaic. So what is the crop nutrition lead? What does that really mean? What do you, what, what's your job really entail? I like to say that crop nutrition lead is basically an agronomist that gets the opportunity to focus more on crop nutrition and soil fertility. So we, especially when I'm talking to my customers, there are, well, a couple of different aspects of the customers that I work with is I'm doing more technical training for our internal sales, sales teams. And I like to say I'm the liaison between what's happening in the field with the retailers, as well as, you know, what's happening with our new product development, what's coming down pipelines, making sure concepts have some mainstreamed and applicable real world, you know, fits when they get out to the market and they're not, you know, dreaming something out that's not going to be adopted that well or has some potential major weaknesses. But when I say when I do the, the trainings and things along those lines is, you know, when I'm working with many of the sophisticated, the smart knowledge individuals that we have across the ag industry, many of the different retailers or co-ops that, you know, the provide fertilizer, they obviously are, you know, agronomist or sales agronomist, they have many different hats throughout the year, whether they're focusing on seed crop protection, obviously, crop nutrition, amongst other, other logistics and operational needs. So being able to understand the entire complexity of the industry and communicate some of that is is really valuable. And so you talked about new products. I mean, biopath is one that I've tried last year and trying again this year plus a different strain of it, I guess. So are you more excited about what's coming down the pipeline since you do get to see some of that new stuff before everybody else? Yeah, so I'm always excited what's coming down the pipeline. It's part of it's challenging because, you know, from a crop nutrition standpoint, I can dream up of all kinds of concoctions of what we could potentially do. But a lot of times what our challenge is, what can we get to fit across a broad number of acres and be able to be scalable. You know, there's probably over 100 different checkboxes that we have to go from logistics to, you know, operational feasibility of moving product and how can it be, you know, shipped and stored and whether it's from a dry fertilizer commercial standpoint or what we call our biosciences products and biopath or power co-op from our biosciences lines. Basically, those would be products that are enhancing the efficiency of some of the fertilizers, complementing our natural soil soil biology and really trying to help facilitate greater nutrient uptake and mobility and availability to the crop. So when I look at things like biopath, you know, what intrigues me about those is, you know, how can we position those consistently for success and have a wide-scale adaptability. You know, we know that the bacillus species is pretty tough from a standpoint of compatibility of what it can go on to when we put it on or in, you know, liquid solutions, which would be like our biopath formulation. There's a lot of things that aren't compatible with fertilizers, which are basically salts without killing natural or living organisms. But when you put them in a spore form, like you have with bacillus, it can then get delivered to the soil where it can become, you know, I'll say the three ingredients for, you know, moisture, having some food source, like a carbon and or, you know, the oxygen heat to get it up and going where it can start to thrive in the soil and start to go from there. Very good. And it's really a biopath is more for your nutrient uptake. Like you said, does it focus mostly on one or two nutrients or is it for all of them? So it's one of the unique things about bacillus species or biopath is we've actually seen it much broader spread than just one. Most people probably think about it for like a phosphorus efficiency to begin with. But really, once you start to, I'll say build or colonize the root, if you can get more, I guess if you get roots that are are better able to take up nutrients, not a lot of times just one nutrient focus. So we've seen greater uptake of nitrogen, many of your different micronutrients and sulfur. So we say it's not just one product of one nutrient focus that you see with some other products out there in the market. Very good. I always wanted to see, or that's what I want to see, and then it'll probably be 20 years down the road, but I want to see a some kind of biological that will help with ethylene production into the soil, you know, to the roots, just keep moving it down and getting it out into the roots. So we just keep that plant greener longer. So I know that that's probably something that's coming down the road, but it's always interesting to see what the things that you are doing. I know there's some new stuff coming that I got to try. And then another one that I didn't get to try, but I've seen the roots for and I'm not going to hold you to talk about them. But I think it's exciting what what the difference in the root mass on the one that I saw was just stupid. Awesome. And so I'm just excited for the next five years to be honest with you. I think there's been over the last several and I think going forward in mosaic and mosaic biosciences is looking into really lead with data and proven science behind the products and why and where they'll have fit. I think the ones that are in the pipeline that are, you know, even the ones that you maybe had an opportunity to have some leading edge focus, whether it's focusing on nitrogen or other plant, you know, or soil pathogens within within the soil or natural symbiotic relationships that can occur within the soil. I think many of those can, you know, we're always looking for ways to increase the efficiency of different, you know, nutrients. You know, we a lot of times talk about efficiencies from different nutrients. And if you look at, you know, nitrogen, a lot of times the efficiencies they talk about like 50 to 60%. But that's just an above-ground portion. I think what we oftentimes forget is well, how much is actually stored in those roots that are below the ground when we know the roots are basically a mirror image of, you know, what's above ground. And I think that also can go on and talk further about the other nutrients as well. Yeah, I'm just soaking everything up, Andrew. I don't have any questions. Gee, I was like, I've never thought about the root side because you do hear the nitrogen, you know, 60%. And I'm like, well, that does make a lot of sense now that you say that with the roots. So try to have you with being with Dr. Bilo or different studies, have you seen negative effects and over applying nitrogen? Have you done any testing with that? So I think you're primarily referring to negative agronomic effects. Yeah, yeah, such as just some of these, you know, everybody was talking in earlier this year that oh, that field ran out of nitrogen, you know, the water, you know, all the rain we had depleted, you know, and took our levels down. Is that always the case? I mean, some people came back and why dropped and still had ugly looking fields, you know, like, and I know disease, fusarium, crown rod, all that stuff comes into play. But it seemed like there was some guys that had an overbundance of nitrogen and still had that ugly top buyback or whatever. Have you seen negative effects of too much? Like it's overbeating and it's not getting everything else it needs. So, good question, huh? It's, yeah, the reason I hesitate on it is because it's from a, it's not common where you see more nitrogen you put on, it's really huge detriment to the crop. But where it does become detrimental is two things. Obviously, the pocket book, if you're putting it on, you don't need it. But number two is you think about what that nitrogen is doing within the soil, whether it's ammonium and hydrocemonia, urea, all this eventually going to convert to nitrate. And what happens from a plant standpoint is when it starts to have overabundance of nitrates in the soil, if you superload that soil with nitrate, all of a sudden you have a bunch of free nitrate in the soil. And the challenge then is the crop says, I need to take some anions up with my cations, like potassium example. Nitrate is going to go up the plant with potassium through the plant. Or, yeah, nitrogen is going to go up with potassium throughout the plant. And what's going to happen is if there's too much nitrogen and not enough potassium or other nutrients to counterbalance that, is you can start to see other nutrient imbalances. I think one of the key examples that you see is, I mentioned you need a cation to bring it up, but even that overabundance of nitrate can start to overwhelm the availability of other nutrients. A couple of those key nutrients that come to mind to be sulfur is that sulfate, you got to keep those in nutrient balance ratio, whether it's, you know, you could, you're picking them or somewhere probably between, you know, five to one to fifteen to one somewhere in there that you would need this wide range, but parts nitrogen and two parts sulfur that you're taking up. And what I like about, if you look at corn nutrient uptake requirements for 230 bushel corn is basically 23 pounds of sulfur. So I like to say it's a ratio, one pound of sulfur for 10 bushels as a general easy rule to start to go off of. I know many producers that are pushing higher yields are probably bringing that ratio down. Or in other words, a higher amount of sulfur compares to nitrogen. And especially when it came out the last couple of years when nitrogen prices were a lot higher than usual, is I was looking at our fertility plans is how do we supply nutrients better balance? In other words, maybe I, even if I was maybe possibly short on my nitrogen recommendation for the crop, I was going to reinvest it in other nutrients that hopefully make that nitrogen go farther, sulfur, potassium, other nutrients. So that's where I think the shortcomings might be is the answer probably is not always add more nitrogen. Look at your fertility program and say, is there something else that I need to, that might be limiting my yields more and should be going up with at the same time, or instead of it. No, that makes sense. So if I mean, if I take that thinking, so the guys that are doing the 0.6 to 0.7 pounds of nitrogen efficiency per bushel of corn, it's more because their soil is better balanced. Is that kind of what you're saying? Absolutely. You know, I think of, you know, there's a couple different ways that you could get those efficiencies. One is apply it below average rate of nitrogen and your yields aren't going to be great. Or I'll say maintain your nitrogen rate or optimize it and, you know, make sure in those other nutrients or other, even the yield limiting factors goes back to getting all their fundamentals, right? Say, in drainage, your planting conditions, your tillage, weak control, those are all kind of what I call prerequisites, even alluded to things like ethylene production, fungicides, things that keep better plant health. You can maintain that plant healthier longer and maintaining, taking advantage of that full season and packing more yield into the kernel weight later in the season. That's ultimately going to be helped and increase your nitrogen use efficiency and decreasing your pounds of end per bushel. That's interesting. All right, so I'm going to ask you a question about your farm then. You use cover crops and all and what's your opinion of that whole realm to the biological side and the biology that we're trying to get next to the seed? Yes. So on our farm, we do use cover crops. It's not across every acre, but it's one we're still experimenting with. Part of it's we're on, I call it the Northern edge latitude where you can get them, even I'll say partially, it's just successfully established. Like this fall, for example, the key candidate for us has been rye and rye-headed beans has been a good fit, but our challenge is like rye behind beans ahead of corn. We can get it established, but I sometimes am questioning myself of if it's really the right cover crop ahead of corn. It does help protect against soil erosion and keep soil biology probably active throughout the season, but the key thing is we need to terminate it early for it to really prevent it from trying to immobilize or start to tie up some of that nitrogen or other things ahead of the crop. And we're experimenting with other mixes what we could have successfully established up here. You get down in Iowa and other areas that are further south, like yourselves, you probably have a little bit more flexibility, a longer window to get other things established. I think it's one of those components that can aid into the, well, obviously, the soil health story, but long-term productivity. But again, I wouldn't say it's the silver board. We don't get as much biomass production as what you're going to get further south, and we have some other challenges getting it established. And there's a lot of interactions of how it reacts with nutrients, not just nitrogen, but soil for phosphorus, other things to uptake. I think for us, terminating it early is important, but it can be a host throughout the winter for soil biology and other things. So there's mixed results on where we're seeing it fit. If you're behind shorter season crop rotations or longer season growing conditions like yourselves, behind silage for us in Wisconsin, it's pretty popular. I think like that it helps have fits, maybe prevent some of those nutrients getting lost later in the season. But I think termination timing is probably the one thing I'd say is most critical for us to have it successfully work. What are you seeing for yourselves? Well, that's what I mean, the termination. That's what I can't want to get in the combine and see how the late termination of some of those cover crops in certain areas where it was a little thicker that didn't get the best kill. How much it hurt me on yield. I'm guessing 40 to 50 bushel. I don't know. So I'm excited to get out there and see what that actually is so that I really put an emphasis for next year and going forward on what to do. But you strip till, so do you drill your cover crops, fly them on, and then strip till, or how does your strip till system work? So for us, we've been basically applying cover crops two days. I guess there are some people that could probably drill, but we're either flying them on. We've done planes historically this year. We did them with a drone. Or if we get early beans off, we'll come in and put some broadcasts. I'll say build up fertility rates with some seed in this broadcast. I'm hopefully going to get a decent catch. It works for cover crop establishment. Though I did notice, we did struggle when we have really good production corn. When we were two 20, two 30, two 40 bushels, if we weren't on a hill knob or on the edge of a field, there was too much shade and or moisture uptake from that higher yielding crop, the cover crop did not establish as well. Now, when we come back in with strip till, strip till mostly is all ahead of our corn acres. We've been able to custom hire someone else to come in. We'd love to get out bar of our own some days. It's cost a little bit of hula. The neat thing about that is it stripped really well. Whether it was in cover crop or not, equipment setup is important. When we're in corn stocks, corn and corn, we noticed that equipment setup was more important than when we were in the corn in the beans. But we really didn't have any challenges. Our main thing is we planned within a couple days after strip till. We didn't have any hydrocemonia. We basically put some aspire micro essentials, a little bit of polymer coated urea and stuff in the strip down a little bit further and we'd be able to plant on top of it. And then we'd be basically within a couple of days to be coming in and terminating it. And at that time, our rye at the most part was usually about less than a foot tall, so trying to terminate it early. Usually our thing is I'm talking to others is it's I probably need to be watching exactly what the height is on the rye, but it's probably trying to terminate your rye more on a sea to end ratio, probably more so than even the height. Once you get over that 20 to one sea to end ratio, basically you start immobilizing your end less than that, it can mineralize. We find if we terminate it young, we, you know, I go at this time of the year, I really don't see hardly any rye on the soil, whether earthworms or natural degradation kind of broke it down. I had some rye that got much taller ahead of our beans. You call it almost that armored, you know, in thesis type of rye and it's still out there and it hasn't seemed like it's hardly been touched. So that's why I think the termination timing is important, just understanding how those nutrients are cycling. Yeah, I'm not a fan of cover crops. I've just had bad experiences with them. Not not ahead of soybeans, but ahead of corn, just like Andrew kind of did this year. If you don't get terminated soon enough at the paleo. Yeah, and I don't know if that's a true thing or not. People say it isn't. Some say it is, but something happens there. And that's where, you know, I'm not strongly for or against them. I think everything has its pros and cons. I would encourage anyone that's concerned trying them, start on a small scale and know how to manage them. That's why I said even like this year, I'm trying some different mixes, other blends, outside of rye, because it's not my favorite thing ahead of corn, but it's what works and establishes for us in our early season or a cool season up here. So you guys might have other flexibility in trying other things. But it said there even all the cover crops, there's a lot of pros and cons of each species that you potentially put out and how you get it out. So logistics and, you know, you know, if you're trying to do it all yourself right behind a combine stuff, there's other things probably in your fall harvest regime that are just important, if not more important, like getting your fertility right or soil sampling, all the things that can ride a lot of value to an operation. So yeah, no. So you mentioned aspire. That is something I hadn't heard of until I went out to Illinois and heard you guys all talking about it. So what is aspire if I is it for a nutrient or a supplement or what is it? Yeah. So what aspire is is we've headed out since probably about 2015, 2016. It's basically myriad of pod ash with boron. But what makes it unique is there's two different forms of boron in there. And the analysis is oh 58. And then a half percent boron. So the boron is two sources. There's a quickly available sodium borate and there's a slower release calcium borate. So similar to microcentrals for those that aren't familiar with microcentrals, we have two forms of sulfur there, sulfur sulfate quickly available and elemental sulfur is slowly released in our phosphorus source. This is basically taking a pod ash source and enhancing it to provide better boron availability. The reason that we saw some great adoption interest in this is a couple things. One is we know that potassium k k plus molecule does have some interactions, some synergies if you can have an anin B tank up with it in a crop boron is one of those things. And then if you look across many of the different crops across the corn belt and beyond, it seems like boron is consistently a challenging nutrient that is usually low. Soil test is maybe not the best predictor of what boron availability is because it seems like they're always coming back low of less than 1 ppm and it's not something I always are talking about for building because it is an anin and mobile nutrient within the soil. So being it's a mobile nutrient in the soil basically tells me I have to manage that nutrient annually every year to try to maintain that and get it up to adequate tissue levels in the crop. And then also from a plant physiological standpoint, boron is something we constantly challenged with visits. For most of our crops that we're familiar with, whether it's corn, soybeans, polar wheat, it's immobile within the plant. So if it's immobile within the plant basically says it does not remobilize nutrients from lower leaves, upper leaves and it has to continually take it up through the roots. And to be able to continuously take it up through the roots throughout the growing season you need some boron availability and resources to keep it available in that rooting profile throughout the season. So from Osaic we have some what we call agrifax which is basically multi-year site year publications that will look at peer reviewed research, other research studies that had supported these and actually you buy Dr. Fred Bilo's program this last year in conjunction with one of his PhD students, Marcos Loham. Over the last four years they were conducting some trials with a spire over four years looking at fall applied aspire and trying to look at the boron availability from aspire compares to like a liquid boron. And one of the things that we talk about with aspire is uniformity of boron applications throughout the soil. Because boron if you look at it of the micronutrients it has the the narrowest range from deficiency to toxicity within within the soil. So trying to maintain it in that kind of sweet spot it can be a challenge you know basically somewhere between 1 and 5 p.m. within within a soil. So if we can do that if you have a little bit of boron in several different granules of potash essentially you can more evenly distribute that boron throughout the soil whereas our traditional dry fertilizers were basically if you look at you know granule bore or 14.5 or 15 percent boron. The old recommendations a lot of times are put out you know seven pounds of product to get you about a pound of boron. And you know a lot of that's trying to get enough granules out there to make a difference even though it's it's actually a lot more than what the crops theoretically need to take up from a crop nutrient uptake requirement even looking at highly responsive crops like like alfalfa. But one of the things that we can do is more evenly distribute it we saw in this agar effect that we kind of took that a distribution out of the equation because we used a you could say a foliar basically took a liquid source and sprayed it across the soil. Say we University of Illinois did and basically what they had found is even without the uniform nutrient distribution that the combination of a sodium boron plus a calcium borate would provide better or or more sore soil boron throughout the throughout the duration of that next growing season and ultimately resulted in greater yield. So that agar effect specifically is about four bushel per acre yield increased from a spire compared to the other boron sources out there over those four site years that they were carrying out. So is the dry or elemental boron um is that going to hold in your soil better than a liquid? I mean obviously we know boron leeches easily but you know to spread a dry boron out there how long is that going to be there? I mean how long is it going to move or how long is it going to take to move six inches in your profile? Yeah so that's an excellent question and it was one of the things that they did is they looked at soil sampling depth as well and they were finding that the majority of it was actually staying within that top foot. Not a lot was getting down to like 36 inches. Now these were on silty clay loam soils so they're a little heavier soils that maybe didn't have as much mobility of the boron and they were detecting more boron from the liquid applications as well but just not as great as when we were seeing that slower release Kelsey and Borat that was available in there. So the answer to your question is I am an agronomist by nature it's going to depend on your soil type but I think you know if you look at different sources you know it rest assured it was great in the fall but in the spring it'd probably even be better if you compare those different applications. A lot of times we'll get questions on well how is it compared like me doing a full year application of boron and I'll say like you for a full year boron applications they can work they can be good. The thing is that it's going to treat that one timing that you're putting out and it's not going to remobilize the nutrients up. If you get rain or something to wash it off the leaves and out of the soil potentially something that could be taken up later on but that's where like even on our own operation I'll use Aspire as our foundation boron and our potassium fertilizer source and then if I'm coming back in season I feel like I'm still a little short I can supplement or complement with some additional over the top boron when I'm making my different passes across the field. When I talk with high yield growers it seems like boron is one of these unique nutrients that if you look at the nutrient uptake requirements like for corn it's like give or take I don't have the values right in front of you but you know basically an ounce an acre for 230, 240 bushel corn now soybeans for 60 bushels with like four ounces or something like that for uptake approximately four or five ounces and you look at what we're putting on for 100 pounds of Aspire behalf a pound of boron or eight ounces theoretically we have all the boron that we need but it seems like the high yield growers are pushing these values even higher for boron rates than what I would historically maybe thought based on crop nutrient uptake requirements so it's one that I continually am and asking myself even my own operation is do any higher boron rates to get in greater efficiency out of nutrients like nitrogen and other things within my operations so you know whether it's a pound per acre or two pounds per acre or some guys might be even going higher there's there there could be some opportunity but it's not wide widespread recommendations yet but things that we are dabbling with and what what that right rate of boron is out there yeah that brings me back to something I was going to say at the beginning of our interview was you're talking about nutrient uptake and certain times of the plants you know that it's been taught to us for many many many years that you know this is when the nitrogen curve is the potassium curve so on and so forth I mean that that's got to be changing I mean I mean there and you think of these high yield growers maybe they got it figured out maybe they know in a little bit different map but we always see the same map all the time you know and we always see the same nutrient factors I mean Iowa State um go go cyclones right you know but they come they have the same use rates for all the this fertilizer but it never changes and it's always based on a broadcast application so I mean if I'm putting it all in a strip can I get by with 40% last can I get by with 50 30 whatever percent less I mean they and I don't know maybe I'm not looking at the right chart so the right website to find this information from these colleges but it just it just seems like to me everything's always changing but we never always get to see those changes you got to figure it out yourself and some of these high yield growers don't like to share information and well that's kind of why Andrew and I started this podcast was to share more information so I wish I knew a secret I wish I knew something different to tell people but you know yeah maybe we do need more more on maybe we don't need as much nitrogen you know this and that so it's very interesting it's one of the challenges with some of the research programs that are out there pick whichever university or other things out there's a lot of times they can say what didn't work and a lot of times I feel like growers want to know what what does work or what can work and why because a lot of times like it's as easy to show a product does not work all you have to do is you know mess up on some other management or have some other yield limiting thing but you know when you can show that things do work and have success it means that you probably control for some of those other other factors I agree and like that there's a lot of thirst and interest for more high yield research you know what are the progressive growers doing and how are they consistently getting these yields and what are those yield limiting factors that are routinely coming up and how can we better manage nutrients and fertilize you know I think even when you look at tissue test values you know the question is you know what yield level are they at and quite frankly I would suspect you know as I'm compiling my own database is that the standard rules that you're targeting or your optimal ranges might vary depending on certain nutrients you know like for example if you increase your base saturation of K quite a bit or your K soil test values you might say your magnesium levels drop a little bit more under these higher yield systems than what we've seen under your standard growing conditions and that might reflect in your tissues and the same thing comes back to some of the different micronutrients it might not be too that all values need to be higher you know the it could be that because there's only so much base you look at plant tissue concentrations they're on a percentage basis so there's only you can still only get 100% into the crop and you can't just increase all of them and still maintain 100% so something has to have them flow with each other and I know I'm still working through on what are those that are dropping while others are increasing when your entity's higher productivity scenario is that we can consistently identify it it's not that maybe they're even always needed less amounts they just might need needed at a different timing we know it's like nitrogen you know research and stuff in the uptake periods uh I was part of the the program with and when I was with Dr. Bielo's program one of the students Dr. Ross Bender put out the nutrient uptake curves for for corn and beans and one of the things that we found was that you know there was greater late season uptake for corn than what we had seen with prior genetics or prior eras of corn part of that's just the absence of uh better crop root protection and other things like that from the the modern genetics that we were able to help facilitate better grain fill you know I sometimes ask myself if I were to do my degrees over again I got a plethora of questions but I truly think there's probably a large opportunity for late season management of our crops and in many regards you know don't just give up to it at at tasseling you know that's when we think we can give a lot but whether it's early season management that pro carries through with your late in the season and or you know just things we could come in later in season and and try and help that crop more whether it's corn or beans yeah absolutely yeah I think you're exactly right that's what I'm looking forward to next year is later season let's see what we can do later in the season so yeah and I had plans of that too this year especially on beans and um just didn't have the rain in august and and that is one thing total acre has taught us is to win to give up on a on a crop you know when when can it still be pushed when is it still an ROI mode and when is it not and when you have four tenths of rain in august on your beans until of course august 31st we had you know about an inch but I mean at that point it's I wasn't gonna I wasn't gonna go out and spray at r5 you know another forty dollars an acre so maybe maybe I should have maybe I should have done forty acres just to see how it would have done or something you know especially since I have my own sprayer but I didn't I mean I talked about it all the time this this year was ROI mode next to here is to maybe the next year I mean how far do you push something uh just to get um I don't know brag about your yields you know or or whatever just to say oh yeah I got this yield but it cost me x I didn't make any much right it's gotta be profitable right yep absolutely the don't need it to do practice so yeah and half the time if you brag about it nobody believes anyway so what's a point in doing it right exactly is there any favorite things that you guys are working on the nutrient uh realm on on your own operations that uh you think it's got some promise or something you're trying different this year I'm uh for next year I will have two by two on my planner and I'll be doing two shots of why drop so all my nutrients my pk and everything will be placed within two to six inches of that row so I'm putting everything where I need it I'm cutting back on you know percentages because it's not broadcast and yeah everything's gonna be placed right next to the row uh no I don't know what I'm doing differently next year till I go and see all my trial crap that I did this year so I think I have 16 different trials out there so until I get in combine and I won't put together my plan for next year yet so um I know some things that I think I've already seen that are working but until I run it through the combine and see a positive ROI I'm not I'm not gonna make those decisions yet so how about you well I'm in the same boat there I got a lot of things I'm I'm already trying to draft some trials because there's there's things that I have not answered questions on or addressed that I'd like to continue to do on a lot of it's and we sometimes have maneuvers a resource in addition to other nutrients like how much of that is actually available to your point you mentioned you were going to put two by two on your planter we put or we put it on our planter this year for for liquid basically a concealed system from you know precision planting and basically a lot of it was from nitrogen and sulfur and boron needs off to the side of the row early season and I'm really interested in doing more trial work with that some of it's just trying to understand is how can I predict nitrogen availability across the landscape from like I know I have we'll call it the bottom of the hills heavy organic matter soils to the top of the hills that are lighter green you know and how do I manage the different those nutrients differently on those and can I do it to the planter my top dress you know or other applications in season fertility work in my area with the sands K it seems like it's actually a little bit more mobile than we give it credit to so I'm trying to maintain my K levels and the soils and and then the plans and trying to do fertility management so those are things in addition to other things that I've got going on like I alluded to some of the findings through cover crops through trial work of termination you know timing we're doing some tillage comparisons of we got no till we got we do all kinds of tillage on our on our farm what when I say all kinds we do strip till vertical till whole like chisel plow disc and no till so it depends on field by field basis and where they have the best merit and I do like the nutrient placement aspect of it one thing I know I've noted on the nutrient aspect even some of this comes back to my masters at PhD was is there's times when you're when you're cutting your your bandied rate that they can be equivalent to your broadcast in I'll say in the first couple of years basically because your soil test can still provide a fair amount of those nutrients but when you're a long-term plan you know if you're not replacing crop removal you'll probably see those soil test values start to start to drop so that's just a word of caution is might work for the short term for the band aid your greatest efficiency of of your nutrients is your best return on it is your first increment of nutrients so even like across our operations a lot of times I'm I'm doing even our BRT applications a low rate of almost all nutrients just to get some nutrients out there and then you know cutting back because you know even when you go on take a soil test you're representing five acre two and a half acre maybe one acre grid but even within like one acre grids you know there's 38,000 plants out there just each of those 38,000 plants have access to what the nutrients are that you're reflected in when I lie at times say even when your soil test values they call um it's an average of the cores that you took the 10 or 15 cores but if you had let's just pick a value 20 ppm 30 ppm that was the average of those 15 cores you took there might have been some cores that were 10 ppm because some that could have been 40 those 10 ppm cores still could have been deficient so um not that it represents the whole acre but from an individual plant standpoint oh if you can get them even just a small dose of fertility that's great and that's where the strip till does come in is it be a nice and beneficial there yeah absolutely yeah that's the one thing I did take you'd mention it really early there that the potassium movement in our soil is mobility is maybe a little higher than what we think it is and that's one thing that I'm going to do some trials next year on my own to see if that if I can keep my potassium up throughout the season so sure higher than it is so like I know for us it's I top dress potassium you do get leaf burn you get leaf burn with korea and I was walking through plots yesterday or just fields and like oh I can still see where the bottom some of my leaves are burning that's where like why drop or something else sounds great you know we back you know you if I was doing a term called dry drop where they were where they were uh put in dry fertilizer with basically think it overflows with distributors off to the side of the rows and there was some interesting concepts in doing that with a dry fertilizer approach but um ultimately is like how can we supply those nutrients throughout the season better um something I'm I continually challenge some of the my initial trains that we were taught back into soils one on one or even heck the 401 level courses whether it's undergrad or my graduate work is like okay is all this true like I understand where it comes from but I think I think it's one of those things the more you learn the more you realize what you don't know or more it's circumstantial maybe that's just an agronomist saying it depends but I think there is a lot of unique scenarios of how all these can can interact yeah definitely oh I agree always something to learn that's right well I mean that's that's the goal right keep learning or you fall behind so yeah definitely well Tristan I think we're kind of good on time Rick you want to wrap it up you're so good at it okay I'll wrap it up okay it's done Tristan thanks for taking time with it spending with us this morning and it's always great to talk to you I'm sure I'll see you somewhere here down the line of the mosaic field and pick your brain some more so we'll do thank you very much uh for having me great to be part of this I always talk I love talking about uh crop nutrition and soil fertility and passion about but even more so trying to get greater yields and ROI yeah and I hope to meet you too someday Tristan so yeah thanks again and take care have a good weekend we'll do see you guys thank you thank you