Join us in this episode of the "Tell Us a Story" podcast as we sit down with Gill Brabner, founder of Resound Training & Development Ltd, to explore how Forum Theatre can transform corporate training by addressing challenging workplace behaviors with empathy and confidence. Gill discusses how her innovative approach helps professionals tackle sensitive issues such as harassment, conflict resolution, and leadership dynamics, providing practical tools for more effective workplace communication.
Gill also highlights her upcoming workshop, “Oh, It Was Just Banter…”, which explores the fine line between workplace banter and harassment. Learn how she uses professional actors and real-time scenario redirection to create immersive learning experiences that offer practical strategies for addressing difficult conversations and improving team dynamics. Registration for the upcoming workshop (September 25th 2024) is ongoing.
Visit oh-it-was-just-banter.com to register and find out more!
Key Topics:
- Forum Theatre: An immersive, drama-based learning approach for real-world workplace scenarios.
- The ECA Model: Gill’s proprietary approach to building empathy, care, and action in workplace interactions.
- Handling Difficult Conversations: Strategies for addressing sensitive topics such as harassment and conflict in the workplace.
- Leadership Development: Building stronger leaders through practical experience and empathy.
- Managing Workplace Banter: Understanding where banter crosses the line into harassment and fostering a more inclusive environment.
Guest Bio:
Gill Brabner is the founder of Resound Training & Development Ltd, a company she started in 2004 to provide high-impact learning using Forum Theatre, coaching, action learning, and peer review. With over 20 years of experience in corporate training and leadership coaching, Gill has worked across industries including healthcare, local government, pharma, and education. She holds an MSc in Digital Education from the University of Edinburgh and is a Chartered Fellow of the CIPD. Through her innovative Empathy, Care, and Action (ECA) Model, Gill equips managers and leaders with the tools they need to navigate complex workplace dynamics with confidence and compassion.
Links:
Hashtags:
#ForumTheatre #WorkplaceTraining #LeadershipDevelopment #GillBrabner #ResoundTraining #TellUsAStoryPodcast #ConflictResolution #EmpathyInLeadership #BelmontCityPRess #RedHilton
Episode Highlights:
- Introduction to Gill Brabner and Resound Training & Development.
- What is Forum Theatre and how does it create an immersive learning experience?
- Gill’s ECA Model for Empathy, Care, and Action in workplace dynamics.
- Insights from the “Oh, It Was Just Banter…” workshop and how it addresses the blurred lines between workplace banter and harassment.
- Using real-time scenarios to empower leaders and managers in difficult conversations.
- Moving training online: Gill’s journey in expanding her programs digitally and internationally.
Don't miss this chance to learn how Forum Theatre can help you address challenging workplace dynamics, and discover strategies for building a more empathetic and effective leadership style.
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- On this episode of Tell us a Story. - And the sweet spot is in prevention. So it's letting that person know that you care and you care about them as an individual, as a member of your team. Can you tell me about, oh, that was just banter. And then we also, as I've mentioned, deal with some really tough stuff, like bullying at work, like sexual harassment. It simply stands for empathy, care, action. - So the website is resoundtraining.co.uk. - That's a positive story. - You'll have an opportunity to take a quiz called the effective leader quiz. - I think we all just need to lead with empathy, care and action. - Welcome to Tell us a Story, the podcast by Belmont City Press, where entrepreneurs and sales professionals share their journeys, insights and strategies for success. In each episode, our guests reveal how they've overcome challenges, establish their brands and leverage their stories to promote their businesses so you can too. I'm Red Hilton, your host for this episode. Today I'm joined by Jill Brabner, who is the founder of Resound Training and Development. So Jill, tell us a story. - Oh, thank you, Red. And I'm delighted to be here, so thank you. So I set up Resound in 2004. So we celebrate our 20th anniversary in October this year, which is very exciting. And we are a learning and development business. So we create learning programs for organisations. And specifically, we are all about helping managers improve the quality of conversations at work. And to do that, I've got a team of professional actors and we create foreign theatre workshops where we present a real work story to our delegates and they get to work through the problem with us and redirect the actors. And so we co-create the solution and it's a fantastic way to learn. It's a lot of fun and yeah, we love it. So that's us. - So as you know, that is very near and dear to my heart, but talk to me about your journey to Resound Training and Development. What was your journey in getting there? - Oh, well, I can go all the way back to when I was 17, which is a very long time ago. And I went to the theatre with my English literature class and we saw "Death of a Salesman" by Arthur Miller, one of your very own. And it's a tragedy, as you know. And my friends went left the theatre saying, well, that was awful, we're going to the pub. And I went home on a high. And that's because that evening showed me that my family were not alone in what they were going through. So my dad at that time had mental health issues and he was having treatment in a hospital. And although I knew in my head that there must be other people there, the stigma was such at that time that you just couldn't talk about it. But seeing the play that night had a huge impact. It was life changing because I realised that, you know, we weren't alone and I just felt, well, this is so powerful and I want to do something with theatre which changes things for the better. So that's why all these years later, I have a foreign theatre business and I work with actors and we go into companies and we try and create a better experience for everyone there. - That's a common story. - And along the way, obviously, I've done human resources and I've got qualifications in learning and development and I've designed lots of different programmes, but that's at the heart of it. - Well, thank you for sharing that with us. Can you tell me about, oh, that was just banter. - Yes, I can. So, oh, it was just banter. It's a fabulous scenario that we have which really shows the impact of bullying at work and sexual harassment and we are delivering three workshops online this month in September for free. So anyone can join us and I hope members of your audience certainly will so that people can come and experience foreign theatre and see the power of it for themselves. So yes, it's a scenario which we know works. It's got three brilliant characters in it and it really gets a message home about how the way we behave at work has a huge impact on other people. - Can you give us some real world examples of your workshops, whether it's bad or another one? - Sure, so we've done a lot of work around the everyday management conversation so that could be a manager needing to have a conversation about performance or about sickness absence. So we do lots of those in organisations and yeah, people have a lot of fun. I mean, for example, the sickness absence one, we've included some social media element to that. So the person is off sick, you know, they're posting on social media that they were out the night before and all they might have a headache tomorrow. So, and that bit of the story becomes uncovered as we go through and through the delegates asking good questions to the characters. So that's a lot of fun. And then we also, as I've mentioned, deal with some really tough stuff like bullying at work, like sexual harassment. I'm really focusing on managers having the skills that they need to have those conversations so that when somebody reports something that they have a really effective conversation with that person, that they can actually address issues of behaviour with members of their team and deal with complaints in the appropriate way and sensitively. So very much around the management of the issues and the sweet spot is in prevention. It's in, you know, if you tackle these issues soon enough, early enough, there's an opportunity to manage it before it goes into an HR process, gets escalated and then it's, you know, everyone's in for quite a stressful time with that. And there's, you know, you just have to see that process through. - Absolutely, do you want to manage one problem? Do you want to manage two, you know? - Yeah, but in most cases, unless it's very serious, it can be addressed early on, but managers need to have confidence to do that. They need some really good skills to do that, you know, the people skills. And I think it's interesting that in this age of AI, where all the conversations about how AI is going to take over and it's already, you know, taking some jobs. Actually, I think the personal interactions are just going to become more and more important aren't they, more and more valuable and more and more important that we do them well. - Can you tell me about your ECA model? - Sure, so this is something we developed a while back in response to some work that we were doing in some large organizations here in the UK. So essentially, we were looking at how can we bring more compassion into workplaces? So this really simple model is the way that you can be sure that you're offering a compassionate response in your conversation. And it's great for work conversations. It works well with the family as well, I'm going to say. So ECA simply stands for empathy care action. And there's three points sit under each of those. So for empathy, we're talking about the ability to build rapport and trust really quickly. And you do that by paying, you know, your full attention to somebody listening to them. It's about asking for the other person's perspective. So this is where we understand the world from their point of view. So the phrase, you know, we walk in their shoes. So we just get that sense of what it's like from their experience. And then the need to be non-judgmental through that process. So if we're doing that, we're being empathic. We're showing empathy for care. And this is really something that came out very strongly from COVID is that, you know, health and wellbeing are really important. They're vital aren't they? And that's ours and everybody else's. So it's letting that person know that you care and you care about them as an individual, as a member of your team, you care about their health and wellbeing, their ability to do the job. It's also caring about outcomes. You know, we need to care about our contribution to the business at work, because there won't be one without it. So that's important too. And I think it's an opportunity to find out what matters to the other person. And there's such a simple question that you can use for that, which is, you know, what matters to you. And after COVID, we went out to our client base and we asked the question, you know, what matters to you? And these were HR directors, learning directors, people like that. And the first answer was always, well, you know, it's about the wellbeing of the staff and how we come back from COVID at these big corporate messages. And then we said, and what really matters to you right now? And then we got, well, my health, you know, I'm concerned about this, my family. So that little follow-up question really gets to the crux of that. And why it's useful for managers to do this is that if you understand your staff members' motivations, then they become much more, you become much more able to create the environment in which they are motivated. So it's really helpful. And then finally, we've got action. And what I was fascinated by when I researched compassion was that unless there's action embedded, we're not being compassionate. So it's not enough to show empathy or to care. We have to take action to help things progress. And I think that's a brilliant fit for business and for organizations because, you know, we need to, we need to take action. And it's got to be the right action at the right time. And that might be on behalf of someone or it might be enabling and empowering the other person to take action. So yeah, empathy can action. And if you can embed that model into your conversations, then you know that you're going to improve your team's morale. You're going to improve engagement and motivation. And it will lead to improve performance as a result. So it's just a great way to operate within business. - So within empathy, care and action, do you feel that there's a hierarchy of importance? Do you feel they all roll into each other or? - I see them as quite equal, but I think it's important to start with empathy. It's important to ask those open questions to find out what's going on for the other person and to listen to the response. Because once you've done that, then that opens the door for you to say, well, look, that's really helpful. And I've now got a better understanding of why you responded in that way or what's going on for you. Here's my perspective. So then you then have the opportunity to say, look, this is it from my point of view. These are the things I'm managing. And I really want your support with that. And I care about, you know, how you're doing and that you're well and fit for work and that I can support you with having the skills to deliver your job, et cetera, et cetera. So I would say set it up in that order, empathy care action, but give each equal measure. - Excellent, all right. So tell me about your website. What is it people will find there? - So the website is resoundtraining.co.uk. I know you say .co.uk, but we say not. - Sorry, we'll put a link on the show notes. I don't know. - Thank you, thank you. - Well, you'll see myself and my colleagues there. You'll have an opportunity to take a quiz called the effective leader quiz, but you can have a little self-assessment about where you sit and what your strengths are and areas that you might want to develop further. So that's useful. You'll be able to join one of our, oh, it was just banter sessions over our forum theater workshops that we're running. You can also have a look at our work that we do to support new managers. So we've got a qualification that is absolutely brilliant, giving new managers the skills to manage their teams. And you can contact me directly from the website and I would love you to do that. So if you're a manager in an organization, thinking about or a new manager and you're thinking about managing your team, do feel free to get in touch with any questions. - And I was going to ask who usually attends your banter gatherings, what positions, corporations, businesses, who is it that usually shows up? - So usually we have people from human resources and learning and development departments, but it's also open to any managers who wants to take some time to think about managing these issues and having those conversations. So yeah, anyone in a management role, it's suitable for. - And you're in the UK, are you just concentrated there or are you, since you're on Zoom, international? - Absolutely. So we work with global organizations and we often have people joining us from across time zones. And so we have scheduled one of those workshops for 6 p.m. UK time. So I'm hoping that that will work well for folks in your neck of the woods because obviously I think you're six hours behind us or five hours behind us. - Yeah, I think I'm five, but obviously there's people that are going to be eight hours behind you, so it's been a morning session for them. - Yeah, so I'm hoping that that gives a bit of scope for our to invite people from across different time zones. - Is it bad that I feel like that just sounds like a fun time? Is that a commentary on how I spend my social time? You know what I mean? I just want to hang out like, oh, that was just a bad one. - Ah, do me a favor, explain to me, you know, with your workshops or your trainings, what is sort of a misconception that people have about what you do? - So when they hear the word forum theatre or drama based learning, they're usually throwing their hands up in horror and say, no, no, no, I don't do role play. And in our workshops, we don't ask people to role play. And that's because there's other ways to get involved, which are really helpful. So they interview the characters and they find out more information about what's going on for that character. And they redirect the action. So the only time we would ask people to role players, if we were working with sales teams, 'cause I think it can be really beneficial for sales teams and lawyers, because lawyers need to get into role too. But otherwise, we always say to people, you know, relax, just enjoy it. And you know, people really get stuck into the story. So this is the power of stories, isn't it? Which I know you're all about. And we're all about. And people that come onto our workshops who are a bit reticent, a bit reluctant, a bit resistant, all the R words, they soon, they're soon straight in. I mean, despite themselves, they're straight in there with the questions in the redirection. And that's because they're caught up in the emotional connection with those characters. And that's what makes it really work. - Fabulous. - And sometimes with those who are sort of resistant, you know, once they sort of feel like they have permission to sort of engage in what's going on, I feel like that they're a little bit more accepting. And, you know, a lot of when you speak about salespeople, you know, my in-profit business communication is geared towards salespeople. So I completely 100% get why this is so good for them. But if you can, can you talk to me about lawyers, attorneys and how receptive are they to... This is gonna sound good, but how receptive are they to accepting someone else's input on how they present themselves? - Oh. Well, I would say the people I've worked with have been open to that. Some of them have really enjoyed the performance element of it. I think the real challenge, you know, for feedback is peer-to-peer feedback. I think that's the big challenge. I think if you're in the role of facilitator, that sort of gives you some permission or license to provide feedback. But I think where it can be really challenging is peer-to-peer and that often it takes you back to, well, what's the culture within the team or within the organization? And, you know, sometimes you might be aware of that and sometimes not. I think that's where it's difficult because we know from research that, you know, peer-to-peer that the feedback can be really, really brutal. That's the, you know, and that's why when you're facilitating or managing a lot of that, but, yeah. - Absolutely. - I think also, again, because we're dealing with stories, again, they're caught up in the story of what's going on. So that's an easier way for people to, I think, engage with it and engage. - Yeah, that's what I was going to use. But I used to, I used to offer sort of presentation skills. I did a lot of that work and that could be challenging in giving feedback to people who had a view that they were really exceptional. And that's where you're recording people, videoing them and then allowing them just to play it back. You know, that then became the vehicle for feedback rather than the, I think the problem is people take it so personally when it's from another individual, don't they? - Yes, and they take other people's opinions personally as opposed to, you know, a growth moment. - Yes, yes, exactly. - Yeah. - Even when it's delivered really well. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, absolutely. And that's a choice. - Yeah. - So. - Oh, yeah. - We had lots of moments like that over the years. - There's a lot of choice going on. Lots of choice. I agree. Talk about your other offerings. What else do you have at your website, you know, other courses, you know, whatever else you have available for our listeners because as I've said, this is something that I love this. I think this is important. I think this is, you know, sort of a function of something that everybody sort of needs to dip their toe in. - Yes. Well, we, you know, we have a number of really excellent coaches who are providing one to one support to people in leadership roles. We have our flagship course, which is for new managers that I mentioned. It's a qualification. And that serves sort of great way for new managers to start their learning around the people skills. And of course, all of our foreign theater workshops can be on any topic that's related to behavior and conversations that managers need to have. - Fabulous. And that is all at your website. We'll have a link in the show notes. I think the biggest difference between what you do sort of with your, you know, form theater versus an improv like I do is you, you can do it online. You can deliver that a little bit more easily as opposed to an improv that needs a little bit more buy-in from people and, you know, a little bit more participation and it is a little bit better for improv to be in person. - Yeah, yeah. And we've done some improv work and I, you know, I love it, but yes, the energy in the room in the face-to-face setting is really helpful to get people to break through any barriers that they might be experiencing with that. This is a great way to get the brain firing, you know. So yeah. - Yeah, that's where that salespeople attorneys, you know, sort of comes in because they do a lot of that. There's a lot of improv that goes on with both of those professions. - Yeah. - Yeah, no, it's great. - Yeah, no, all strength to you if you don't know. (laughing) - Jill, share with me, what is your Monty? As you know, Monty is our mascot here at Da Mont City Press and he's sort of a beacon of all things inspirational or hope or a lesson learned or a mantra that we carry with us. So what is your Monty that you can share with our listeners? - Well, I think it builds on the ECA model that we spoke about just now and I would say compassion. You know, bring compassion into your life, bring compassion into the workplace, use empathy care action. And let's make a better world together because goodness knows it's divisive enough at the moment, isn't it? There's so much conflict in all areas of life and in all parts of the world. But we can improve the bit that we're in and the bit around us for the better. So yeah, I would say bring compassion to work. - Fabulous, are you ready for our rapid fire session where we get to know the Jill behind the Jill? - Oh, well, as ready as I'm ever going to be, that's for sure, this is improvisation, isn't it? (laughing) - All right, so for those that don't know, I'm going to give Jill two choices and you just tell me which one speaks to you and I'll let you know if you're right or wrong. No, I'm just kidding. 'Cause if you're wrong, it's just based in fact, which by fact, I mean my opinion. All right, you ready? - Yeah. - Mint or cinnamon? - Mint. - Okay, mint or spearmint? - Mint. - Yeah, I've always been a mint girl, but I switched to spearmint and I don't know if I can go back, so I respect it. I respect it, okay. - Would you rather see an action movie or a comedy? - Comedy. - Best, that's correct. Would you rather have an early breakfast or a later brunch? - Later brunch. - Okay, I would like an early brunch. You know what I'm saying? I love brunch because it has that mix, but I'd like it earlier in the day. - No, come on, I'll be back. - Yeah, so that's just in case anyone was wondering what I want. (laughing) - Fine rate and early brunch. That's the message out there, okay. - Okay, big go. - Would you rather do fine dining or casual dining? - Casual. - So like a beer in pub as opposed to get dressed up and we're actual clothing? I understand, I get that, okay. So social media or no social media? - Social media. - Really? - Yeah. - I won't say it's wrong, I'm just saying. So would you rather have sushi or tacos? Are you in either camp? - I'm not keen on either, does that, is that a problem? - What do you most, and I love the word keen too. All my British ancestors are just like, hey, what are you keen on? What is your most favorite? - Out of those two. - No, in general, in life. If I was like, okay, let's go to dinner jail, where are we going? - Oh, Italian? - Okay, I'll take it, I'll accept it. Chocolate or vanilla? - Chocolate. - Okay, you're correct, I just want to let you know. All right, so. Are you ready for our guest-to-guest question? As you know, the guest before you left behind a question for you, so you can answer it during our show. Are you ready? - Yes. - All right, if you were given a magic wand, and within the criminal justice system, if you could change anything, what would you change? - Wow, that's gone deep, hasn't it? - Well, it's very specific. So, yes. - Okay, so I would say investment in prevention of crime, and I think for that, and I'm thinking, certainly in the UK, we have communities that feel left behind, so there's some social issues, so I think they need investment, and we need to really improve the quality of life for some of our people, for some of our communities, and so that's about equity of opportunity, and it's about education, it's about health, it's about the future potential, and it's about young people, and giving them the best possible start in life, you know? So I've got two very small grandchildren, and another one that's due, this all-term, and my good is you want the best start in life, don't you? - I do. - So yeah, we need to be investing. - Would you say that it's based in empathy, care, and action? - I certainly would. - I certainly would. - You've come full circle. - Yeah, yeah. - My friend, yeah. - So, one more time, your website, your social medias, where can people find you? What is important for them to know? - So, resoundtraining.co.uk is the website. Do go and have a look there. You can certainly sign up for our free workshops, take the quiz, join the wait list for other free stuff that's coming down the line, and get in touch with us from there. I'm also very active on LinkedIn, under my name, Jill Brabner, have a look at that. So, yeah, that's the main places. - Is the schedule for the, oh, it's just banter hangouts on there as well? - Yeah. - Fabulous. - 25th of September, three options, including one for people your side of the pond. - I'm literally, I wanna do this. - I hope you'll be there. - I'd love to have you there, that would be great for you. - This is just a good time. - Like, it's just a good time. - I want you interviewing that character, I really do. - All right, so, Jill, if I were to give you 60 seconds to tell us a story, what would the world learn from you? - What would the world learn? I would say, if you're a new manager, or a new team leader, or a new supervisor, or aspiring to be one, you can change the world. You can make a huge difference to the people that you're leading, and please do that in a positive way, because the way that you manage them is gonna have an impact on their engagement, their motivation, their wellbeing, and their performance, which is obviously really important to you, and crucially, yours as well. So, yeah, get support, learn how to do it well, and you will have the most successful career and leave a positive legacy for the people that you manage. So, yeah, if we can help, reach out to us, but otherwise, yeah, look around you. Come to Red's podcast, join the improv group. You know, there's lots of ways that you can get support in this work. - I think we all just need to lead with empathy, care, and action. - We certainly do. - Certainly do. - I will leave you with that, I appreciate your time, Jill, it's extremely valuable, and I hope I honored that here today. - You did, thank you, Red, it's been brilliant. - Thank you. - To our listeners, if you have a story to share, visit TellUsAStorypodcast.com. If you're an aspiring author, a seasoned business owner, or looking to elevate your personal brand, visit bellmontsettypress.com for expert advice on writing your own success story. Trust the next chapter because you are the author. Now, tell us a story. (gentle music) (gentle music) (gentle music)
