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Spooky or Not Podcast: Cult Chronicles
From charismatic leaders who promise salvation to loyal followers willing to give up everything, the phenomenon of cults is both fascinating and frightening. But what draws people into these groups? How do leaders gain such absolute control?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
https://www.teenvogue.com/story/most-famous-cults-history
https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/cults-dangerous-deadly-history/
https://people.howstuffworks.com/10-infamous-cults.htm
- Broadcast on:
- 18 Sep 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
Hello friends! Welcome to Spooky or Not, a podcast where anything spooky, bizarre, paranormal, or not is up for discussion. From charismatic leaders who promise salvation to loyal followers willing to give up everything, what draws people into these groups, and how do leaders gain such absolute control? Get ready to explore the thin line between devotion and obsession as we talk about cults. This is Ari, and I'm Julia, and if this is up your alley creep on listening. So today, we're talking about cults, finally. While I'm a joiner, I like joining groups, and classes, and clubs, and signing up for all kinds of stuff, we're going to be talking about where do you draw the line? What changes it from a get together to a cult gathering? Yeah, that's a good question because there's definitely, I don't know, it can't be that thin of a line, right? A gathering to cult? Or is it a thin line? Maybe, I don't know, I found myself in several groups throughout my life where there's a running joke that this is a cult. I used to work in a popular place and it's like you work for cult. I was a part of Greek life at my university, so I was a part of a sorority, people that don't necessarily approve of that, that was their thing, like you're in a cult. And so I want to be like, oh, maybe I've just been hippity hopping from one cult to the next throughout my life, cult light, right? That's the term that we use, cult adjacent, but that's a term we use. There's a we, you're definitely a part of a cult. I kind of think so, yes, yes. Not a bad cult, but like a mini cult. That's what they all say. No one has ever thought in the moment that they are in a bad cult. Let me go rewrite this episode real quick. No, no, no, let's have your personal experience sprinkled throughout, because I think this is interesting. And I think, and I know we're going to talk about this, that it's, it is important to acknowledge that like it can be innocent and easy to wind up in certain situations that don't seem bad while you're in them. Yes, the rose colored glasses sometimes are very rosy and you're totally right. Also on the other hand, we will probably be making, I will probably be making jokes throughout this in the most lighthearted nature that things that maybe I've joined are cult, but we are going to be talking about some serious cases where it's like they've definitely crossed the line. This was a hard, a hard line drawn in the sand. There definitely is a difference between lighthearted, good, natured social gatherings and joining an actual cult. There, there are some pretty stark divides. Yes. Yes. And not to make light of the actual situations that are darker and more serious, but it is a good point that, you know, certain groups you're a part of, not you. I'm not speaking about you, Julie. You are, you are. This is really just an intervention. No, that certain groups that one might be a part of like, interesting. What are the intentions? Where is this going? Well, as we go through today's episode, we'll probably talk about a lot of things. Would this be something that we would be susceptible to? Is it something that the greater large is acceptable to? Yes, because we're, it's included in this episode, that kind of thing. So, let's just dive right in. So cults have long fascinated and alarmed society from the infamous Jonestown massacre to the followers of various modern groups. Cults are often viewed as dangerous entities that ensnare vulnerable individuals. But what defines a cult and why do people join them? The two big questions, right? So a cult can be described as a group or movement that holds certain beliefs, practices, or ideologies that are considered unorthodox or extremist by mainstream society. Cults are often characterized by a charismatic leader who demands absolute loyalty and exercises significant control over the members' lives. The term cult is often used carrying connotations of manipulation, exploitation, and coercion. However, it's crucial to differentiate between destructive cults which cause harm to their members or society and benign groups that might be labeled cults simply due to their unconditional beliefs. Yes, so I find this one a lot because I'm religious and I know that a large portion of non-religious folks find anything dealing with religion to be a cult and I get the ideas behind a lot of those thoughts for a lot of different religious groups. But I do think that it is not a one-size-fits-all for just like groups with common beliefs and interests are not automatically cults. And so I like you pointing out differentiating between destructive cults and a group of people that have a different set of beliefs that aren't harming anybody that are just doing their best. Yeah, doing what they want to in their free time. I think I do this a bit. I use cult as a joking matter like that kind of thing because I think a lot of the things that I have participated in my life, I look back and I'm like, oh, kind of culty. You even like at the bare basics level, it's like I've joined sororities, different kinds of social groups, different kinds of businesses where it was like very all-consuming with my life. Even I think like I think you could consider higher education just like going and attending a small college like kind of culty a bit. And so I use that as almost like a little bit of like self-deprecating humor than the term of like cults. But it is a good thing to like clearly define it's those extremists who totally kind of cross that line out of mainstream. But yes, also it's a little blurry, right? Like I would love to say it's so easy to be like, that is extreme. But what's extreme to me is an extreme to everybody, right? So it makes it a little bit difficult. Exactly, exactly. And I think that's why the important thing is destructive causing harm to members or society. I think that's really the fine line of, you know, is it a group of people that just has a similar set of interests, they hang out on their own on their own time, they're not controlling what they do outside of it, like that type of stuff, like that's fine. But if you start an agenda towards people outside of your group, or you start controlling the people inside of your group, like that's causing harm. Yeah, that that's a good, a good line to draw. I think you did a good job there with that. That makes a lot of sense. Now it wouldn't be a Julia episode at that list. So we're going to talk about the six characteristics that set apart cults from other kind of organizations or groups. So the first one is going to be authoritarian leadership. So cult leaders often present themselves as prophets or figureheads with direct connections to the divine or supernatural powers. This claim to a higher authority allows them to demand absolute obedience and to justify their extreme actions. These leaders often manipulate religious or spiritual teachings to enhance their own power, creating an aura of infallibility that can make followers feel obligated to obey them unquestioningly. So scary when we read stuff out like this, sometimes that I want to be like terrifying. Yes. Our second on the list is isolation. We kind of talked about this a little bit. Cults often isolate their members from friends, family, and society at large. So this isolation can be both physical and psychological. Members are encouraged or even forced to cut ties with anyone outside the cult, leading to complete dependence on the cult for social interaction, emotional support, and validation. So this isolation makes it extremely difficult for members to leave as their entire support system is now within this cult. Yes. I love documentaries and I've watched several over various cults. And that is something that most of what I see, like there's a tipping point for people that are interested in it to where they get cut off from everyone else in their life. That's not a part of the group. And they get told, you know, anyone that doesn't support you, they're not really there for you. And you end up getting isolated into a situation where the only people you feel that you can rely on are the people in the group. And it's just like clockwork it that happens every single time. It's crazy. I think of these two, the leader totally wigs me out of it. And every group has a leader, right? That's just kind of how groups, any group, any organization works, everything is a pyramid scheme. There's one guy at the top, or gal, or figurehead. But with a cult, especially with a lot of them being claims to this higher level of being, right? These, you know, they're not just CEO, they're not the president of the group, right? They're like, I'm a prophet, I'm the Messiah of this organization. And it's what it's so crazy how extreme it can be. Yeah, they're and they have to scare people into, you know, following them with those types of statements, which says a lot about their intentions. You're right, their intentions, and how they can kind of organize their group, right? People in those power positions want their group to grow, right? They're reaping the rewards of all of the hard work of people beneath them. So of course, they're never like, I got 12 people, we're good, we're golden, we don't need anybody else. It's like, nope, everybody join us. Now, up third on our list is the us versus them mentality. So cults foster a belief that their group is superior to others, and that outsiders are either enemies or inferior. So this kind of builds off of that isolation that they're already kind of pushing on to their members. Dismantality reinforces group cohesion and loyalty, as members believe they're part of a special or a chosen group. Sometimes even wording that is just connected to cults like special chosen profit, figurehead, I want to be like, they're all just like, oh, sets off like higher alarms in my brain of being like, no bueno. Yeah, but I agreed, agreed, but I could definitely see how someone who maybe is going through a rough patch in life or like has low self esteem, and they're being told like, only the most elite, special people can really be a part of this. Like, that's got to make someone feel good, you know, getting getting into that. And then at that point, yeah, like a leader, like how you were describing before could easily position it as everyone else not in our group is against you. So you need to cut them off. Or like, your special, I'm special, why would we hang out with the non special person down the road? Why would you even let them in your little breathing room, that kind of thing? That's going to be you someday. You're going to be like, I'm special and I'm not hanging out with you anymore. You're not. Never. I've latched myself on to you. You're never getting rid of me. A fourth on the list is mind control and manipulation. If everything that we've talked about so far doesn't also kind of fall into these a little bit. Now, many cults use sophisticated mind control techniques to manipulate and dominate their followers. Techniques like love bombing, which is showering new recruits with excessive attention and affection, sleep deprivation, the use of fear, guilt, or shame to maintain control and constant indoctrination that are commonly used to break down an individual's will and make them more compliant. These methods can be so effective that even highly educated or seemingly strong willed individuals can be drawn in and controlled. Yes. Oh my gosh. So that's another thing with documentaries. I've watched them with cults because I think there's such a large percentage of the population that thinks like, oh my gosh, these idiots, how could you ever get wrapped into that? Which I think probably what we're talking about can change perspectives on that. But also to your point, it's not just uneducated people or easily manipulated people that they get caught up in this. There are community leaders or people that have built a career for decades that can get drawn into something. It is really interesting to see strong willed people get into this through mind control and manipulation, which is so powerful. I mean, people underestimate our human will to have flexibility in certain circumstances. And I think in some of these cases too, like say you're a part of a family and the father figure of this family joins a cult. He gets married, maybe gets a wife to join. They have kids. Kids, I feel like there are members of families that sometimes get brought into these things without any, it wasn't like they made a conscious decision to join or not join. It was kind of just like, this was our family unit. This is what we thought was normal, right? This is just how I grew up. And it's not like they had a choice of like, live here or live there or do this or do that. It was just kind of like, this is, this was our normal. And so I want to be like, I've seen some documentaries too, where it's just like, you have families, generations of people who are kind of invested into these things. And it's like, it just took one guy or gal at the top way back when to join it. And then it's like, you have these whole family lines who are connected in different ways. Yeah, that's a really good point, like the generational consequences. So you think even on a lighter level, you know, kids grow up hearing their parents, like outside of cults, hear their parents discussing politics or thoughts on religion. And as a child, you automatically, typically, I think are just like thinking what your parents are saying, like, that's real. That's what I believe too, because that's what my parents are saying. And it isn't until you get older and start to develop your own thoughts about things that maybe your political beliefs differ or you see religion differently. And you think, you know, that you want to do something different. And in the normal world, that works just fine. But in a cult, like that, there's no flexibility there to eventually grow out of that because you just grow up in the system. You just grow into it exactly. It's like, you didn't have a choice or, you know, you were just joining to do it. I was a member of a sorority when I was in college. And I think that's the biggest parallel that I have to a cult, not saying there's a cult, not saying that. I just want to be like, it's a group that has like a set guideline of things that you have to do. And as we're going through, as I was writing this episode, I kept like recalling things that I'm like, oh, that kind of totally parallels against this. And as we're talking about generational things, it's like, you come in as a freshman in college, I joined a group of women who were automatic, like, you know, like sisters, right? They were there to support me and help me and show me the way. But one of the things you do is you have dinner with them every night, right? You eat at the sorority house altogether, kind of like as a family. But there was a whole process of like, how do we enter the dining room? Like, there was, you let our house mother go first, and she sat down first. And we waited for her to eat before, like, we said a prayer, we sang a song, like, there was a whole process to like just getting to dinner. And so I want to be like, it's not that any of those things were necessarily bad, but now being out of it for a while, separating it, being a little bit older, I want to be like, Oh, kind of cold, not that it's bad. But it's just one of those things that I felt like I joined something and kind of grew into. And I didn't really know a whole lot about the meaning. Why? But even till this day, 20 years outside of college, there are things that I do surrounding dinner time that I feel like I'm like, Oh, this calls back to when I was in a sorority, like, huh, and maybe it's just manners that I didn't have before. Maybe it is just that. But I would feel like they totally trained me around dinner time, and kind of like how I would put together a meal or share a meal with other people. And so I want to be like, it's interesting how something that isn't even a cult has affected me this much. I can't imagine actually being in a worse situation than having those effects later on down the road. Yeah. Yeah, very formulaic, for sure. Let's call it formulaic life skills is what you've got from your sorority. And I am not hating. I want to be clear that I am not hating on sororities. Of course, was a great time. It taught me a lot. I worked with their organization after I graduated college to mentor other college students who are still a part of the program. There's more people signed up. Yep. To draw more followers and good. It's hard. It's hard. It's the line, man. It's the line. I think that's great. I think it's a cool comparison of looking at the like, it's like almost similar, but like, I get non-dangerous. Like you learned life skills from what felt culty about it. Like it wasn't like that. That's a good way to maybe negotiate it in my mind a bit is like non-dangerous. Exactly. It's a little weird, maybe. It's a little extreme, maybe. But the animal sacrifice ritual, we'll leave that aside. The pre-dinner animal sacrifice. Yeah, it's one of those things. I would love for it to be black and white, but the shades of gray kind of cross over every now and then. Up fifth on the list is exploitation. Many cults exploit their members for financial gain, labor, or other forms of personal benefit to the leader. Members are often required to make significant financial contributions or perform labor intensive tasks for the group. Now in my research, and probably if you've watched any amount of documentaries or any documentary on cults, you see this a lot where members often maybe have personal businesses, like outside of just working for a cult your entire life and giving them all of your money. Sometimes people have businesses that they had started before they even joined that they just signed over completely to these groups, these organizations that then members can work at for free because nobody's really getting paid for labor, right? You're not getting paychecks. It's all just going to the greater good. But it's crazy to think like as you were talking about, like these are strong-willed people. These are smart folks. Like there are people who have built successful businesses that they've been able to maintain and are still collecting money and are being successful and who are still getting pulled in to be able to whack it over to the group to all just have it roll up to the leader, right? Because that's the bigger thing is that it's not staying with any of the bottom-tiered levels of people. It goes all the way to the top. All the way to the house, mother. She didn't have any control. She was just there to make sure we didn't die. But we did wait for her to sit down before we sat down. Manners, again. Manners. That's a big one. I think this is an area I'm safe. I don't have anything to financially contribute. So no cult wants me. So that's okay. Agreed. I would be put into the labor intensive group. Yeah, that's true. They're like, no, can you do stuff? Yeah, you get it. And last but definitely not least on our list of six is apocalyptic beliefs and doomsday scenarios. Many cults are centered around apocalyptic beliefs, convincing members that the end of the world is imminent and that only the cult has means to save them. These beliefs can lead to dangerous behaviors, including mass suicides or violent actions against perceived enemies. The Jonestown massacre in 1978 were over 900 members of the people's temple died and a mass suicide is one of the most infamous examples of this type of situation. Man, and this is, I mean, scary. Like, this is majorly how you scare someone that their salvation or their afterlife or, you know, whatever they believe in is at stake with regards to who they associate with. This is I feel like is the point that is like most media worthy, right? If there's going to be a cult, it's like they have to find what that's that instant media headline is going to be not that these are not sensationalized accounts across the board, but I want to be like the doomsday, the countdown clocks, those types of things are easy to grab attention from from outsiders or. Oh, yeah. Everyone's looking for a way to survive the end of the world. True. Also, like feeding off of people's fear of the unknown, right? We talk about that a lot on the show is like, you don't know what's out there, right? And it's so, it's like, it's easy to kind of latch on to that. Yeah. And I think this is another one where religion can come into play thinking about, you know, oh, do you want to go to heaven or hell? Like, if you want to go to heaven, this is, you know, you got to do this and you got to believe this. And I think to a certain degree, sharing that information with people so they have the will to choose is fine. But when it becomes extreme, that's where that's where the problematic behavior comes in and you get, you get things like this, that are dangerous. Now, I'm nothing if not a joiner. I've listed some of the crazy things that I've been a part of. And that's not even half of the groups that I have actually joined as a full-fledged adult, not even a kid, totally adult status, totally handling my business out in the world. But out of the two of us, I would definitely be the person in our little duo joining a cult. Sumi, I'm a joiner, like a nice group activity. But next we're going to talk about the why behind it all. Why would someone take steps to join a group? And so we're going to kind of walk through some of the reasons why people join. And Ari, I'm going to ask you if this is something that would catch you up in a cult. Is this something that would call to you, that would make you want to join an organization? Join my cult. There we go. Yeah, it's about to say, is this going to end with me signing something? Is this all a cover for me to join? Just 90 more minutes and I'll give you your free Bermuda vacation. Understanding why people join cults requires examining psychological and sociological factors. Individuals do not join cults because they are inherently gullible or reekminded. Instead, cults often prey on people during vulnerable moments, such as during personal crises, transitions, or feelings of alienation and loneliness. Would this be something that would get you to join a group? I do think that I could be susceptible to this for sure. Yeah, during moments where, you know, maybe my anxieties flared up or I am feeling particularly lonely or something, I definitely could see something looking like a good idea that maybe in a more normal state of, you know, day to day, I wouldn't give a whole lot of thought to. Definitely. I'm kind of tough spirited, but I think feeling lonely. Like when I joined college, I was definitely like a little bird out by yourself. There wasn't a lot of kids that I went to high school that were going to my college. We were not close. And so that isolation, loneliness, all of those kinds of things, I think totally could easily catch somebody up, catch me up. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Up next, humans have an innate desire for connection and belonging. Cults often offer a sense of community and purpose, which can be attractive to individuals who feel isolated or disconnected. So kind of going off of feeling those things. Yes, it is something that is easy to have that community, that sense of community surrounding you. Yeah, and I think we both mentioned like loneliness. I think this feeds right into that of like, man, all I do is, you know, work and, you know, do this, do that. It would be nice to like belong to something. Like that's probably a pretty common feeling, especially post-COVID. I mean, where certain things that were pre-COVID never came back. Like certain things shut down and didn't come back and organizations function differently. There's, you know, probably a little bit more of people trying to find something else to do and have a sense of community nowadays. Sure. Listen, I worked for a business that kind of gets the cult status every now and then. But looking back at my time spent there, I want to be like, I worked long hours with a close-knit team who we were taught to build that sense of camaraderie with. We had an on-site cafeteria. So people rarely left for their one hour break during the day. There was an on-site gym. There was groups that you could join. Like, I joined a knitting group at one point in time. So it was like, everything was there. You might be on the campus for 16 hours a day easily. One of those things where it's just like, your entire life kind of gets surrounded in it a little bit. Listen, because I also worked for said business that you are referring to, I want to mention that I was in training at said business. And we actually made the cult joke in our like company-wide trainings that we would do. And I found several months after we had started doing that on Glassdoor.com, someone voiced a complaint about it that the training at that company confirmed that it was a cult and had everyone hyped up to, you know, laugh and think that it's fun to be in a cult. And I thought that was that was interesting because I didn't think anything of it. Like, because it was just like a little, you know, a joke. Like, oh, we're family. It's a cult here. But I guess some people did not appreciate that. There were a ton of amenities. And I was young and impressionable. And I took part in them because it seemed like a steal, right? I had a free gym that I got to take classes before and after work. I got a yoga. There was dry cleaning. They had mobile detailing at one point. Like, I was in it to win it. You want to offer me a service where you come to me? I don't even have to leave? Yes. And my friends are here because we're all here for exactly an hour today. Literally my close friend group, we would just stay after work there in the building and hang out and talk. Like, instead of going somewhere doing something, let's just, you know, do a little huddle in our little cubicle and just chat for an hour and a half. Like, yeah, you're just drawn there. And the man, that soda, the soda machine, though, a quarter. Also, it was my first like big kid job. And they had a dollar health care. Okay, I think that's awesome. As a single mom, I didn't benefit from that because I had a kiddo on mine. But I didn't take care of health care. I did not understand even working for in the industry that we were in. Like, what kind of incentive that was until I was out and I was like, holy hell. You're like, it's a pay cut to work in your house. What's going on? But it fulfilled that need of feeling isolated or feeling disconnected. There was a way you could, and they did a great job with it, not to say that they're really a cult. They're not destructive. But there was an avenue, a club, a way to join, if you wanted to join or participate or be a part of something, there was something for you there. On the other side though, when I did leave, it was very hard for me and relationships that I thought that I had built there that were just really built on that, on that system of like, how can I transition some of the relationships that I felt were like really deep, really close friends of mine. I don't work there anymore. You might not even work there anymore. And maybe you do still work there anymore. Like, how can we be friends outside of this? Yes. And unfortunately, some of those friendships didn't survive. But a couple of them did. And so it's interesting, again, not a cult, but cult light. Yes. I agree with cult light on this one 100%. It's one of those things that it's like, if it had been any worse of a situation, any extreme situation, I would be like, I see how difficult those things could have been because I thought it was difficult and not even an extremist situation. So I get how it is trying. Up next, many people join cults in search of meaning, purpose, or answers to existential questions. Cults often provide clear black and white answers to complex life questions, which can be comforting to those struggling with uncertainty or doubt. Hmm. I think this one is not likely to draw me in compared to the ones we've talked about so far. I think I don't know. To me, it's just information, I guess. So I don't think this would be a big attractor for me. But I get it. I am. I think this one is the one that maybe gets me a little bit. And maybe not to definitely not in the extreme manner. But I personally am either 0% interested in something or like, I want to know 100% about it. I also am lazy. I don't want to, I don't like researching things myself. I would rather sign up for every single class under the sun and have somebody who knows about it, somebody that loves it or is an expert in it, tell me about whatever it is. It could be painting, it could be cooking, it could be whatever. I like, I like the education aspect of it. I don't think that I've ever been like, what's the meaning of life? Tell me about that. Not quite there. But I want to be like, I kind of understand this. I'm 50/50 on this because it's like, if I wanted to know more about something or wanted was interested in learning something, like I would go to somebody who wanted to lecture me, that would be like my preferred method of getting information. That makes sense. Yeah, I definitely see this one. Next to on our list of reasons why people join cults is the appeal of a charismatic leader. Such leaders are skilled at making followers feel special, understood, and valued, often creating an emotional bond that is difficult to break. This one would get me 100%. And this is rarely different because I want to join, but I do not want you to perceive me in any way. I want you to never talk to me, exactly the leader in charge. I think that it just would be, I don't know, I think as someone who, I don't know, I think just feeling valued and feeling special is something that I would enjoy a lot. And I do create bonds very easily with people, with things that I like. So this one I think is definitely one that I need to be aware of and not get, not get culted. And I stop bonding with people. And I, like the little stray cat that I am, I don't want to give you my attention when I want to give you my attention. I do not want you to try and pet me or cozy up. We're not friends unless I want to be there. Oh my gosh, you are a stray cat. And I'm a stupid little puppy. Why does that describe us perfectly? Now last but not least, cults are skilled at using psychological tactics to manipulate individuals. Techniques such as love bombing, where new recruits are showered with affection and attention creates strong initial bonds. Over time, the manipulation becomes more controlling, making it difficult for members to question or leave the group. Yeah, I could see, I could see this one. And I want to say that I do feel like I have a strong enough radar, an intuition to pick up on this before it gets too far to where I feel like I can't question. But I'm sure most people that have found themselves in a cult thought that about themselves prior to as well. But I would like to think, I think my radar would go off or something. But yeah, love bombing. Tell me, tell me I'm special. Give me all the affection. Where do I sign? What do you need? I think it's one of those things, especially like them talking about like over time, how it progresses, it's less like I'm not super like susceptible to like that initial thing of like, let's be besties. Join the club. Here's your jacket. Let's do that. I know you're not. But over time, you can beat me down a little bit and then I'll join your podcast. Okay. If you're going to tell, if you're going to out me like that, how about we out you? So last year on your birthday, just so everybody knows, what did we do? I took you out for a facial, didn't I? We're both getting facials, but we're like on opposite sides of the room, pretty small room though. And at the same time, ish, both of our estheticians asked like, oh, how did you know each other? I am sitting there telling our whole friendship, love story about how we had actually worked together years prior, but didn't really know each other. Then we worked together again, got on the same team, became great friends. Now, we're besties. And then I literally hear, as I have eyes closed, in my calming facial, I hear, she's my boss. So yeah, you weren't tough to crack. Two things. If that's not love bombing, I'm not sure what is. I think you might be proving my point. I don't tell people my business, I am locked down. You of all people should know this. You're not getting anything. Who did you walk in with? I don't know. I've never seen her before in my life. She's just paying for my facial today. Thank you so much. I don't know. It would have been nice to hear. Oh, yeah. She's great, she's my boss. I had to be here. You're right. I should have. No, no, no, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. But yes, 100% we differ in that way. I get that. And it's funny, which is funny because I'm the one that's jumping into cold selection right apparently. You got it under control. I'm like, yeah, where do I sign up? Do you want my social security number? I do. I do have it under control. I think I definitely have this. This has been a cool little exercise because I definitely think I've got some susceptibility so I can see some weaknesses. But I definitely think your initial statement of you being the joiner out of the two of us is accurate. I think it stands. Also, I'm a bit aloof to the world in general. I'm just a little unaware. I got good, spidey senses. I'm kind of smart, street smart every now and then. But something really has to like push me off. But for the most part, I'm never like danger, danger, stranger, danger. Don't talk to these people. Don't do this. Don't do that. I'm always just like, yeah, let's go. Let's do it. What's the worst that can happen? We're adults. We can figure this out. We got two brains and, you know, a credit card. It's going to be fine. Yes, I should be more aware. Well, really you just need to stick with me because I'm hyper aware, so we balance each other out pretty well. Thank you. The impact of cults on individuals can be devastating. Members may suffer from emotional, psychological, and sometimes physical abuse. The intense control and isolation can lead to severe psychological distress, including depression, anxiety, and post-traumatic stress disorder. Financial exploitation can leave individuals and families impoverished while the severing of relationships with loved ones can cause deep emotional scars. On a societal level, destructive cults can pose a significant threat. High profile incidents such as the Jonestown Massacre, the Waco Siege, the Manson Family, or Heaven's Gate highlight the potential for violence and mass casualties. Cult often operate outside the bounds of the law, engaging in illegal activities such as fraud, abuse, and human trafficking. We're going to deep dive into a couple of these incidents after we go through the spooky season of the year, so hang out with us. Yeah, yeah, we will definitely be doing some specific episodes over different cults and doing a deep dive into how they formed and what happened. I don't know, this last little bit here is more of the tragic thoughts around cults and how it is interesting to think about getting into a cult, like how that happens and could have happened to you and stuff like that, but then looking at the reality of what it does to people and families and businesses and people that aren't even involved in the cult that are impacted by it, it can get real devastating real quick. You're entirely right. We're from Oklahoma, just north of Texas, but growing up, that's what we heard, so you're talking about families and businesses. It goes farther than that, right? It goes to communities and neighborhoods and towns, right? It's like, if you say Waco, like, there's few things that I know about Waco, but that's one of them, right? It's like one of those things that becomes kind of all-consuming in these really significant incidents of cults. Cults remain a complex and troubling phenomenon. They exploit fundamental human needs for belonging, purpose, and leadership, often with devastating consequences. While it's easy to dismiss cult members as misguided or naive, understanding the psychological and sociological factors that draw individuals into these groups is essential. So today we talked about what even defines a cult, why would somebody even consider joining one, how do they kind of get brought in? So the bigger question is, are cults spooky or not? Yes, yes, but not spooky, but not scary. Spooky and scary? Oh, you know, oh, thank you for that. I'm going to say not spooky, but scary, because I think the ability of any human, I don't care who you are, come at me, challenge me. However strong will you are, I think there is a way to get brought in on this stuff. And I think that is really terrifying, that there are people who know that, that know how to exploit that. Like I think that is terrifying and that is scary. And so yes, I will say cults are scary, not spooky, this was a good topic. Are you spooked out by cults? I think with what we discussed, I agree with you, less spooky than scary. Now since I have, in writing this episode, I did get a little bit of background on some cults and kind of their, their peak incidents that they're most famous for. And as you get into those, I think they're totally spooky. So I think that as we talk, we deep dive into those, I think that maybe you will see a shift in what you define. But I think today in general, just talking about cults at large, scary, not spooky. But maybe I'll change your mind later on this year. I am easily coerced, perfect for cult picking. So you, you feel free to do that. Sign her up guys, get her her jacket. There will also be a Google form in the description of this episode. If you want to fill that out, if you're interested, no, I'm just kidding. Don't click on any of Julia's links. We learned that in the dark web episode. Jokes on you, I've been collecting the else data since I have one. Oh my gosh. Oh, well, we would love to hear your thoughts on cults and the joiner mentality. What Julia said, we are going to be diving into a few different cults on upcoming episodes. We have spooktober, pretty much mapped out with a bunch of spooky things. A lot of stuff through the end of the year mapped out, but they start to see some more cults pop up. Cult episodes, not actual cults, don't click the links in the description. And if you do have anything you want to share, send us an email spookyounotpodcast@gmail.com and tell us what you think. We'll have everything linked in the description. Click on it everybody, click on the links, including sources for more information, our email and a link to our Instagram spookyounot podcast. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next time as we tackle another spooky or not topic. [Music]