Stage Whisper
Whisper in the Wings Episode 638
(upbeat music) - Welcome back and everyone to a fabulous new whisper in the wings from stage whisper. We have a fun, fantastic, incredible, incredible show in store for you today. We've got two amazing artists joining us, not only to talk about a great show that's happening out in Los Angeles, but also about a really fantastic organization out there that's putting up this show. We're joined today by the producer, Jay McAdams and the artistic director, Debbie Divine, who are here to speak to us about the 24th Street Theater and their presentation of Pascal and Julian. It's playing September 7th through October 27th at the 24th Street Theater, and you can get your tickets and more information by visiting 24street.org. This is a wonderful organization. These two humans are just wonderful. They're so much fun to talk with. I can't wait to dive more into everything they're doing, so let us go ahead and welcome on our guests. Jay, Debbie, welcome into Whisper and the Wings from stage whisper. - Thank you. - We're so happy to be here, thank you. - We should do the whole thing in a stage whisper. Maybe we should do that. - That's a good idea. - Just roast your voices, yes. - Don't, Debbie, I want to start with you. I'm really intrigued by this piece. You've got Pascal and Julian. Can you tell us a little bit about that show? - This is set in Paris, France in the early 2000s by Daniel Keen, a fabulous Australian playwright. And it's the story of a boy who has a mother and a father, and but he is disconnected from his father. So he looks down at a Paris cafe from his apartment through binoculars and he decides this stranger should be his father. And so for the next year, so it's episodic, it's 13 scenes, beautiful, wonderful scenes, he pursues this man to be his father. And it is deep, it is profound, it is heartbreaking, beautiful, funny. And you would not know if you walked into this play that it would be for theater, for young audiences at all. It's theater. And so that's, and finding content that has this kind of deepness and profundity is a challenge for us always, but that's what we're looking for. Treating children as the people, the shorter people that they are, and the capacity they have. We live in a city, Los Angeles, and you do too, of urban children who deal with struggle every day. We have an enormous amount of struggle in the kids that we serve. So those kids are resilient, this is the kind of thing they need to see so they can remind themselves that they have that strength to be able to recognize love and recognize heartbreak and recognize hardship and that they can make it through. And that's the mission that we have. Most of our audience is adults for theater, for young audiences, most of them, but wouldn't you say, Jay, about 70% of our audience that comes to see our show, our adults? - Yeah, more than. - It's really children's theater for adults, and we don't know how to, what's the nomenclature for that? - It's another brilliant business team. - Another brilliant business plan. (laughing) - It's my first straight theater. - The joke amongst the staff is we hate money. We hate money theater. We hate money. Come give us money. - That's fantastic. I want to snowball off of that a little bit, though, Deb, because I'm curious to know, you mentioned that this is by an Australian playwright. So how is it that you all came upon this piece? - Well, Jay, maybe you want to talk a little bit about a relationship with Mike Kenny. - Yeah, Mike Kenny is a British playwright that wrote a play called Walking the Type Rope. He's very well known in the UK. He's in his 70s and has been doing children's theater in the UK for decades. So we did his play in 2013 or '14. It was a huge hit for us toward nine cities and finished at the Center of Theater Group in LA. And so he's been a favorite of ours, and he recommended this play that came from Daniel Keenan, Australia. So it's written by an Australian, but this is the first English language production because it's only been produced in France where it was done in French because Daniel Keen, ironically, is produced in France a lot. So it's kind of this international production, Spanish super titles produced in English, but set in Paris. - Right. And of course, the conceit is that, the actors, the two actors, it's a two-hander, the two actors speak English, but the conceit is obviously imagining they're speaking French. They're not doing it with a French accent because that's to us, that's bad theater. If you're doing a language, then you do it in a language that you're in, and you imagine that because that's the central fact of theater is imagination. So yes, and so we're very grateful to Mike Kenny for his beautiful colleague. These are world-class playwrights that we're so honored to be able to work with, and this is a U.S. premiere. So we're thrilled at being able to produce it and seeing how it's presented, I mean, how it's reacted to because it's a very risky piece in terms of content as we just discussed with you. - In the children's theater world. - Right. - That isn't-- - We don't use that term very likely. - Yeah, we don't. - We don't hate children's theater as a term because, you know, I think most of it-- - Of what it means. But that's the reputation, sadly enough, that the U.S. has. And so many children's theater companies live up to that reputation where they just won't take any chances with young people and their ability-- - People should wanna go see children's theater because it's so excellent. But the fact is it's rare in our country that it's excellent. - Right, so it would be great not to call it that. We just have not been able to figure out what other title it could be. You could theater. They've tried it theater for young audiences, they've tried that, but that's still-- - Family theater. - Family theater, you know, everybody's been in our sector has been trying to figure out what do we call it so that we can get, you know, people to come and see it and understand that some of us are doing some really wonderful work. But nothing seems like it's like puppetry or clowning, which I'm like, great. So that could apply to anyone or any person. And I think that's something that we have a hard time in the US breaking down the little boxes about theater. You know, if you were to say, well, you just saw a clown show. No, I saw a kid show. No, no, no, no, no, no, this was a clowning. This is an art form. This was really the way they did at YMZ. And they just think, well, there wasn't a guy with orange hair and a big red nose. I'm like, that's not how clowning is. - Right, right, right, years ago, Debbie took me to a dance piece here in LA. It was a modern dance piece. And, you know, I wasn't digging it and she was really liking it. She turned to me and said, you know, what do you think? And I said, well, you know, this is not theater. It's just not theater. And she said, no, it's dance. And I went, oh, oh, well, then it's great for dance. - Yeah, then I love it. But it took her prompting me to make me realize that, that I just, in my head, it wasn't what I thought it was. But I liked it anyway and it was okay. - You know, we have, Andrew, we have a field trip, separate from Pascal and Wonderful Julian. We have a field trip program in which schools come to the theater. We serve nine to 10,000 kids a year for that. We only have a, you know, a 99-seat space. So that's, you know, a hundred shows we do. And it is the behind the scenes magic history and, you know, wonder of live theater. And it's sophisticated as Pascal and Julian. And we bring the children to introduce them to the world of theater and their teachers have never been to theater. We're talking about multiple generations of people, not just children's theater, of people that have never been to the theater. So, you know, we're up against it in many ways. And our mission is, you know, those green doors are open, but, you know, can the country open up? Just the power of seeing a story live in front of you as opposed to the protection you have when you go to the movies. You know, it's a, you can do risky or work at the movies because it literally is a film, something separates the audience. But when you've got something happening on stage in front of you, and it's a heartbreaking moment, and it's right there, you know, six feet from you, that's a risky business. But that's the business we're in, Jay and I are in. - Which is a great business to first responder, children's speech. (laughing) Well, I wanted to dive a little bit more into your organization, the 24th Street Theater because, cheerfully, you know, 600 plus episodes of this side program that we do. And I've yet to come across such an incredible organization as yourselves. So why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about, you know, what the 24th Street Theater is and what all you do, what's your goal? - Jay, do that. Tell us- - Well, there were- - Tell me a bit about- - Howie Spencer- - Well, there were a couple of founders along with John Whitesbunner, who works at the- God, the theaters to skate, I'm going to write a moment. Bloomsburg, Bloomsburg Theater Ensemble in Pennsylvania. And Stephanie Schroyer, who's one of the best directors in LA. So the four of us were the co-founders of 24th Street Theater back in the '90s, '96, when we got our nonprofit open the doors in '97. And Whitesbunner was from the Market Theater of South Africa, where food guard worked and he and Debbie right away recognized that the community needed to be a big part of this theater because it was in the inner city. At that time, it was kind of a dangerous community. You know, the riots, the Rodney King riots were just five years earlier. And this whole part of town hadn't recovered yet. So it was a little, you know, it was kind of in a scary neighborhood in terms of crime. And, but USC had a dean of theater, Bob Scales, who wanted professional theater in the neighborhood. And so he kind of wooed a few folks down there and we looked at this one place and said, "Oh my God, I just got goosebumps." And everybody said the same thing when they came in. Oh my God, I just got-- - That was our test. That was because it was an old abandoned warehouse. - But you'd round a corner from this little office area and you'd see the whole thing from front to back with the sunlight coming in from the skylights and the painted brick and that. It was just, you know, if you were a theater person, you were like salivating. - Yeah. - It was like, there's a theater here, oh my God. Even though it was just empty. - Right. - And, but you can see the theater and-- - Feel it, and you can feel it. And so we, you know, we scrubbed it, we cleaned it, we spent weeks doing that. And those carriage doors we were talking about, at that time it was just a, you know, big garage door. And one day this kid wanders in. Tell them the-- - And he stands in the doorways, but he's about 11. And he stands in the doorway and we can just kind of see a silhouette with the son of his back and he's hollering. Hey, what are you guys doing? And we're all up on ladders and we hollering back. Yeah, we're building a theater. Oh, you mean like a nightclub? No, a theater where there's plays. Oh, will there be beer? We climb down off our ladders, we go over to Kevin and I, go over to the kid and we start talking to him as his name is Victor. And, you know, we realize and talking to him that this is a neighborhood that needs us. I mean, we had been in residence at the Odyssey Theater here in LA for a decade prior to 24th Street and as their children's theater company and, you know, we were doing birthday parties for rich kids. Here, it was like these kids had never even, they don't even understand the concept of theater. - So the very next week with the theater not even barely cleaned out, Jay and I started an after school program, just gathered, grabbed children off the street and brought them into this empty warehouse and said, here's theater, damn it, this is what it is. And they were amazing, they were just, they were so resilient. You know, they found stuff on the streets and brought them in old tires and created scenes around it. I mean, it was, they lifted our spirits and formed us in ways that we never thought we'd be feeling and of course we did them and that's, you know, 28 years later, it's been fabulous. - Oh, it's been fabulous and, you know, last week, we had two families come to us for help with, you know, just sick, you know, people with cancer in the family and other issues, unemployment. And, you know, people don't, I mean, that's not what theaters do. I mean, we're all in need of, we work in the theater for God's sake, you know, for God's sake. We need food stamps, you know. And yet, we have people who come to us for all kinds of help, getting their kids in schools, help with, you know, immigration. - Because it's hard work, it's hard work. The guy that lives in the store, he got old and he left and he's in a care facility, but he had feral cats he's fed. So he asked us to feed the feral cats. So we have a line item in our budget for feral cats. - Brilliant business model, Andrew. - Brilliant. - But that's what we feel we need to do, you know, that we need to, the community is at feral cats, that kid victor and all the kids that have come after him. That's what we feel is our, you know, it's missionary work in some sense, you know, where the secular church on the corner in a minute. - But then, we do among the best theater in Los Angeles. So, you know, you would think in org like we just described is all in for the community. And then God bless them, they get together and do some children's theater once in a while too. - God bless them. - God bless them, bless their hearts. Well, I'm proud to say, you know, I think we're the only LA company to have the TCG Peter Zeitzler Award, which hangs proudly in our lobby. Just last year, we won the NAACP Award for the work that we do for a show that we did. - You know, we've got the top, the producer circle, the LA drama critic circle production of the year award. - Because they deserve it. Because that's the other thing. You know, it isn't just good enough to come in and have a cup of coffee or feed the feral cats. They deserve-- - All I'm saying is that I'm not saying we're any better than anybody in LA, but you won't find any better theater than 24th Street theaters work in Los Angeles. We're probably gonna do all of our, you know, the best colleagues in the city. So, I mean, of course, have you ever had anyone, Andrew, that was like-- - Well, you know, our mission is to do-- - Mediocre theater. - Admittedly mediocre work that all of our members think is very moving, but none of the audience really does. (laughing) - I guarantee if I have, they're not still in the business. - Yeah, exactly. - Exactly. - Yeah, you gotta have to ever set it. - Everyone says what I'm saying, and we all mean it. - Yeah. - But damn it, Andrew. - We mean it, we mean it. (laughing) - Well, I do wanna turn back a little bit to the performance, the US premiere of this piece, Pascal and Julian, which is a beautiful story that you've mentioned, and it's not like your typical children's theaters we've been talking about. So I'd love to know, is there a message or a thought that you're hoping the audience of all ages takes away from this piece? - Yes, that you can, what's the definition of family? Does it have to be your blood for relatives? You know, we're in a world right now, we're a blended family, or two moms, two dads, or a single mom, or a single dad? Or, you know, what does it mean to be a family? And this relationship this boy develops with this man is friendship, it's a profound friendship. He needed something that this man gave him, gives him, and he's able to bring that love to his own family. He's transformed by it. So, you know, how do you choose, but can you choose family? And we say profoundly, yes, you can. Your friends can definitely be your family. - And the relationship between kids and parents, you know, which you're about to learn about in your life. - That's so wonderful. - You know, that's-- - That's right, that's-- - You know, and can, you know, it's, you know, that it's harder than, you know, ask any parent, and they'll say it's harder than it, you know, than the job description says. And, you know, you can't always be the best friend of the kid. - It is, and it's, it's, it runs 45 minutes. We're telling a story in 45 minutes that's pretty profound. It, the team that we work with, we've worked with for many years. So, we have got a professional movie director who wants to work with us whenever we work, and he does all the video design. We've got an incredible lighting design, an incredible-- - Yeah, we do. - Matthew Hill, we have incredible lighting designer, Dan Weingarten, sound designer, John Nabori, original composition by Brad Brof. I mean, Keith Mitchell who's worked with us for years is our set designer. This is, this is a team that understands what it is to do sophisticated art and, and theater. I am proud to say that this sounds so obnoxious, but I really love saying this out loud. I've never done a show with a couch in it. Everything we do is really about using your imagination and feeling those feelings through your imagination. And so the video design and the sound design and the, you know, the set design, all of this is, is so beautifully synchronized to tell this intimate story, you know, funny, moving and real over 45 minutes, 13 scenes, and we really, those people that are listening in Los Angeles, we so welcome you to come and see this, this piece in the show. - You're welcome New Yorkers too. - Yeah, we do, yeah, or if you're from Idaho, but you know, if you're, if you can. - New Yorkers don't need barking. We love New Yorkers. We'd love to invite you. - I actually want to snowball off of all of that because for my final question of this first part, it's kind of a two-parter. And I want to know who are you hoping to have access to Pascal and Julian, but also who are you hoping to have access to your organization as a whole? - Yeah. - Well, part of our accessibility plan is we have $2.40 tickets. You know, I'm sorry, we're not the 99th Street Theater. We'd have, you know, $9.99. - Yeah, yeah. - We had to be a low number street. - And we, and we do everything with Spanish supertitles. So that's accessible to neighbors. - 'Cause we have a lot of central Americans in our neighborhood. - Right, but it's... - And then we also have a hundred families a week that get free after school theater enrichment from us throughout the whole school year. - And we call that after cool 'cause we're that hip. - After cool. So, and we have a team leadership group that we, you know, we help the kids, you know, some of them with, you know, getting into college. - We have residencies. So we have a, we have a, we have a bench of 11 teaching artists that go to schools. We do professional development for teachers. We have the largest day of the dead festival in the area, 5,000 people a year for day of the dead. So we are a very busy shop with our doors open, and we are seven days a week, you know, 15 hours a day, and we couldn't be happier. We could not be happier doing the work. - Or more full of ourselves. - Or more full of ourselves. (laughing) - God, thank God we don't live on a podcast. (laughing) It would just be, it'd be like I'm great, 24 hours a day. - 24 hours a day, I couldn't be better. (laughing) - Oh my God, I love it. That, that is incredible work though. I truly admire that. It's fabulous. - Well, it's a small staff and it's just, you know, there's a full-time staff of seven, ancillary artists around 2025, you know, actors and teachers, and so it's a big, you know, payday twice a month is, you know, it's, we've got to raise that money. We've got to make sure that we keep those green doors open, and that is another part of what we're doing every day, not just feeding cats. You know, we're running as fast as we can to raise that money to, you know, keep this programming going. And that, this is, this is not just us, as Jay's writing about, this is a nonprofit. The world of nonprofit is just a, is every theater, every healthcare service, you know, anybody that's, that's working for the public good, which is what nonprofit is. It's for the public good. And we take that very seriously. - Yeah, you know, we, we're in a neighborhood that does have needs and, and, you know, so we, we had to take it seriously because people started knocking on our door. You have to answer the door. - Right. And then we just left it open. Then we just kept it open. - Right. Yeah. - Right. But I think we're the only theater in LA, probably in New York too, where, you know, at two p.m. on a Wednesday or 11 a.m. you can just walk in the front doors of it. - Have a cup of coffee. - Theaters are normally locked up unless the public's supposed to be in there. - And we have a lot of people that come, we have a beautiful lobby, a big beautiful lobby. So we're so lucky to have that. And it's the building is wonderful. We love the building. But people, there are so many people that come in that will never see a show. They'll never be in a program. But they'll just come in and have a cup of coffee and a little respite and a little conversation, Spanish and English, whatever is called. - I had a picture that, you know, was there when we were opening the place. He is in his late thirties now. He, he's been in prison, most of his life, never came to one single class there. He was already pretty much, you know, starting to get into trouble by 11. But when he gets out of prison, every few years, he always calls us and comes by to see us and, you know, tells us how much we meant to him, even though we were just role models who lived across the street. - We wrote him a letter early on, you know, when he first was struggling and went to jail. We wrote him a letter how much we believed and how much we loved him. He still has that letter, he carries it with him. - You know, the actor's gang theater's doing great work in prisons. - In prison, we're incredible. - I mean, Victor is our work in prison. But, you know, there are other theaters that are really doing a lot of that, you know, work with incarcerated kids and incarcerated folks. - And we're so grateful for it. - That's out there and we just never, because we landed in this neighborhood, we never thought we could only do shows. I did for the first five minutes. I was a young actor in my twenties with a cool theater. I just wanted to, you know, be on stage. But Victor changed my mind that day. - He changed the whole direction of who we are that day. - When I talked about it. - When I knew we owe 'em. - That couldn't understand the concept of theater, even when we explained live actors would be here, they would do a show, you'd sit in the audience, you know, is it will be a different show every day? No. (laughs) - You know, so we knew, you know, he handed us our mission. - So that's our community piece. Sometimes we get called a community theater, which gets my hackles up as an artist. You know, we're a professional. But, you know, community arts education and live theater, those are the three buckets that we do. - Yeah. Well, as we wrap things up, I would love to know, and now you've got the great show Pascale and Julian coming down to the pipeline that's starting at the time of this recording. I mean, in two days, just on Saturday. - Yeah, we open this weekend. - Are there any other productions or projects you all have coming on the pipeline? We might be able to plug? - Day of the dead. (laughs) That is, that is just so, it's so wonderful to be able to have that historic event. And we are Associate Artistic Director, Chima Castano's, who we've had, has been with us about 17 years now, he introduced us to the Adeles Martos. - And back then, nobody was doing it. Except in L.A., there was a north called Self-Help Graphics, which was the real OG of Day of the Dead here in L.A. - And it's so beautiful. And it's theater as it's essence because we, you know, transform our parking lot into a cemetery. So the homages that the community comes. And what's incredible to see is you'll see a local gangster and, you know, a parent from the community. They'll come together, be next to each other, honoring their dead in the parking lot, you know. I mean, talk about diversity and connection, but it's theater. And it's now a political destination. So, you know, the mayor shows up and the council will jump on because, you know, it's 5,000 people come in and celebrate. This incredible, beautiful night and so joyous. You know, the first time I saw it, I, you know, I thought, I did what most people do. I think I kind of attributed it to Halloween, Halloween light. And in effect, it's about nothing but sweetness and joy. - And love. - It's not, you know, in Halloween, you know, there's the blood masks in the bagel. This is just about joy. - And celebrating your ancestors and bringing their spirits and their souls to come and visit you. It's just so, so lovely. I mean, you got a lapsed Catholic here and a Baptist who, you know, we just like, what? What is this? And we are converts. It has been such a beautiful way to understand. - We took it online during the pandemic when everything was shut down and Edward James almost came on and did a piece with us from, you know, remotely. - Yeah. - Anyway, it's a lovely, it's a lovely event. - And that's coming up. - Our Interstage Right program is just a fabulous, happy to say nobody in the country is doing it because we invented it. - That's our field trip, our field trip program. - That over 100,000 students have seen in LA County over the past couple of decades. So we've created some new theater goers with that, we know. - That's amazing, amazing. So great things in the pipeline, great things happening at the 24th Street Theater. And that leads to my final question, which is, if our listeners want more information about Pascal and Julian or about the 24th Street Theater, or about either of you, maybe they'd like to reach out to you. How can they do so? - Well, you can find out about me at the National Archives. (laughing) The 24th Street Theater.org is our website and Google us. I'm happy to say, I think we have mostly positive, I shouldn't say that, never mind, I'm not saying anything. (laughing) It's not anything about the Google anymore. - That's what our friend, Jack. So Jack Black is a huge supporter. He was a student of mine when he was a young man. And now he's a dear friend and a supporter. And he always jokes with me, you know, as I say, "Jack, when am I gonna see you?" He said, "Well, if it's on the Google calendar, "I'll be there." (laughing) - It's on the Google. - It's on the Google calendar. - Yeah, our website, 24th Street.org. Debbie's also the head of the theater program at the Colburn School of Performing Arts, so you can find out more about her on that website. - But we're so reachable and we'd love to hear from anybody who wants to hear from us, who wants to talk to us about what we do and what we believe in, that would be wonderful. And if you're a cat lover, make a donation. (laughing) - That lady's for theater. - That lady's for theater. (laughing) - Well, Jay, Debbie, thank you both so much for speaking with me today, for sharing your amazing organization, this exciting new show and just everything. This has been a blast. I could just go on and out. When we do our telethon, I think, we'll just have you on for, you know, 12 hours a week. - I can tell those lights. - Yeah, those lights. (laughing) - Google that. - Absolutely. - Thank you both so much. - Thank you, Andrew. It was been just a pleasure, just a joy. You are so fun to talk to, and you make it so easy to communicate with. I mean, you're in the right job, sir. (laughing) - Thank you for that. (laughing) My guests today have been two amazing artists, the producer of Jay McAdams and the artistic director, Debbie Devine, who joined us today to speak about the 24th Street Theater and their upcoming presentation of the US premiere of Pascal and Julian. The show is playing September 7th through October 27th at the 24th Street Theater. And you can get tickets and more information by visiting 24street.org. And you know, while you're there, this is a wonderful organization doing some amazing work. So make sure if you're in a position to send them a donation, support this great group, and then make sure you also check out their show. That's an amazing production. They do some great work. So again, 24street.org, check out Pascal and Julian playing September 7th through October 27th. And we wanna add for our American listeners that election day is November 5th. Make sure you are registered to vote, have a plan to cast your ballot and do your democratic duty. You can find out how and where you can register to vote by visiting vote.gov. The future demands that we fight for it now. So until next time, I'm Andrew Cortez, reminding you to turn off your cell phones, unwrap your candies. And keep talking about the theater. In a stage whisper. Thank you. (upbeat music) If you like what you hear, please leave a five star review, like and subscribe. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at stagewhisperpod. And feel free to reach out to us with your comments and personal stories at stagewhisperpod@gmail.com. And be sure to check out our website for all things stage whisper and theater. You'll be able to find merchandise, tours, tickets and more. Simply visit stagewhisperpod.com. Our theme song is Maniac by Jazzar. Other music on this episode provided by Jazzar and Billy Murray. You can also become a patron of our show by logging onto patreon.com/stagewhisperpod. There you will find all the information about our backstage pass as well as our tip jar. Thank you so much for your generosity. We could not do the show without you. ♪ A broad way from there I swear ♪ ♪ I don't care anywhere near your town ♪ ♪ Makes me there ♪ [BLANK_AUDIO]