Stage Whisper
Whisper in the Wings Episode 635
(upbeat music) - Hello everyone and welcome back into a fabulous new Whisper in the Wings from Stage Whisper. We are so excited about today's show. Not only the subject of our show, but one of our favorite, favorite guests and dear Fred, an incredibly creative artist who continues to just raise the bar on the arts and continues to not only push the subject matter but educate the audience at the same time. Of course, we're speaking about the amazing writer and director, Claire A.U. She is joining us today to talk about her new film, feature film, which is going to be playing in theaters all across the country this fall, Empire Waste. And if you want to get more information about it, head over to empirewastefilm.com. This movie, this film is absolutely incredible. As we were speaking off the air, this is the kind of film that I feel like, I agree with Claire 1,000%. I think that a lot of adults wish they had as a child. So I don't want to waste any more time in hearing me speak about this. We're going to bring in the expert, the incredibly inspiring artist, Claire. Welcome back to Whisper in the Wings from Stage Whisperer. - Thank you, Andrew. I love meeting you through the New York theater scene. So the fact that we get to hang out again just always fills my heart. - I'm so happy you're back. I love seeing your smiling face. And every time we speak, you're just doing something incredible that I'm like, absolutely, Claire, my cat. You know, Sarah, I hope my calls, Claire, my schedule, like it's amazing. It is amazing what you do. 'Cause like I said-- - Oh, thank you, my friend. - I appreciate these wonderful works that sit on the stage or in this case on the screen. There's so much more beyond that. And so it's not just a show, it's an experience. And you're doing so much good. So why don't we start first by having you tell us a little bit about what your film Empire Waste is about? - Absolutely. So Empire Waste is a comedy about teens learning to love their bodies through inclusive fashion design and friendship. So it's the movie I wish I had as a kid, struggling with my body issues, but also it's such a beautiful story of friendship and supporting the hell out of your friends as they follow their dreams, supporting each other. And so for me to see that come to life on screen and we've been at film festivals for the last few months and seeing it come to life on screen has been incredible, seeing audiences walk in with this story. And when I first came out with the script, it resonated with people 14 to 84 in theaters we saw it from like eight to 94. It's just a story that really crosses generations in a beautiful way. So whether you're a teen like going through it or an adult who's like wants to get back in touch with like your inner child who's still damaged from Y2K. Oh, God, you know, this is for all of us. And I love as you know, combining comedy with like health education. So we also, because of the response to the scripts, I pitched a partnership with Procter and Gamble and they gave us a quarter million dollars worth of funding to create a free education curriculum that's gonna go alongside the movie that's gonna be living on our website, which is just the most exciting. So in addition to having this cinematic experience where you get to go to the theater with your friends, with your kids, with your grandparents, whoever you want, everyone will have access to that curriculum to be able to use the film like a common language and then process their own struggles. Openly with each other, right? We got to talk to each other to keep that work going. - Wow, wow, that is all so amazing. Ah, I love, like I said, I just-- - We're psyched, we're psyched. It's not gonna lie, we're so psyched. - I love the work you just do. It's amazing. It's so, so wonderful to see and experience as well. So I'm curious to know with this film, you know, what inspired you to pen this? - Absolutely, so this movie was inspired by a essay I wrote. I used to write her for 80 Polar Smart Girls for a very long time. I started writing there when I was 23. It was an incredible space for me to, as a comedy and sketch person to write about more personal things and use comedy, but be a real person. So I had this series called "Notes to My 12-Year-Old Selfs." And the movie was inspired by a piece I wrote about called "Take the Plunge." And it was about how I quit swimming when I was 12 because I had gained weight and I was too embarrassed to make that like 10, 15 foot walk from the locker room to the pool in my bathing suit. And swimming was my favorite thing in the world and it didn't matter how I felt in the pool, it didn't matter how free I felt, how much I loved it. I felt so ashamed and so I quit. I quit the thing I loved most. And so I was a 25-year-old at the time when I wrote this essay. It was a "Notes My 12-Year-Old Selfs" begging her to get back in the pool as I was getting ready to go back and swim at my local Y at 25. And talking about how when we start making ourselves small physically, like whether that's trying to lose weight, whether that's trying to be quiet, not stand out, we start making ourselves small in so many other ways. We stop raising our hand in class. We stop going after opportunities 'cause we don't think we're ready or good enough. And just looking at that, that's how I framed that piece. And I now can talk about it really openly, but it was really scary to write as a 25-year-old who was still, you know, working through that stuff. And it was a response I did not see coming. It was like hundreds and thousands of people responding, saying how seen they felt, how they had gone through something similar, especially in this case, it was a lot of women, saying, you know, that's why I quit swimming. That's why I quit running. That's why I have it more in short since I was 10. Like all these limitations people started putting on themselves. Because of insecurity over their bodies, because of they were told a perfect body or a boot body, a headier quotes there, looked like. And so I looked at those responses and I'd wished we had had something we could have all seen to make us feel less alone, because that shame really thrives in silence, right? So that's when I had the idea to write Empire Waste, which is basically about a girl who can make herself whatever she wants to wear, but doesn't feel worthy to wear it. And that's the core of it. So she ends up being paired with a girl from school who's like fat, fabulous, super confident in her own skin for a bio project, but doesn't have a clothes she wants to wear, who like discovers that Lenoir, I mean, character is a fashion designer. She designs clothes in her room and like thanks her to make her one dress. And it's just this fashion and friendship, love story, inspiring other kids at school, and then learning that she's worthy to wear those clothes herself. - That is so good. Oh my gosh. I'm having like remnants of pumpkin, that film that came out on Netflix. - Yeah, yeah. - I mean, literally watching that, I was like, where was this? Where has this been? - Right. - Because we have, I feel like, I'm sorry, anyone in everyone, we have all been there, whether we've given up on something because of our body imaginations, or we just have those. And I don't think it's talked about a lot, especially in the arts. You know, a lot of people know about it, especially for female presenting performers or artists in that case, but male presenting artists, that's never a conversation. Trans performing artists, or in some places, LGBTQ performing artists, it's these things aren't spoken of until after the fact. And it's like, what if we could just cut out that 20 years and be like, so you know. - Or if you have a talented person who quits early, because they're told that there's no space for people like them. They're told they'll never succeed. And so for us, it was really important in the making of this movie, we ended up doing a nationwide casting call because the bodies I wrote, meaning for my Lenore size 18 plus white woman, for Kayla, her best friend was assigned like 24 plus dark skin woman of color, was our mission to really fight that colorism in Hollywood. And agencies didn't have that. They would send me, if they sent me anybody, they would send me what I would call a Disney plus, which is a size eight with a round face, right? And so, you know, looking at that, we ended up doing a nationwide casting call and that's how we found our lead Jimmy Mayavu, who is from Minnesota and found us on TikTok. And we ended up, I think we got 3,500 applications in like three days. It was nuts, but the sheer amount of talent is out there. You just have agencies who don't think in media and entertainment and, you know, internalized fatphobia, racism, whatever you want to call it, that is saying these people are not worthy of investment. They're not worthy of being on our screen. And our mission with this movie was to say, you're so wrong. And so the movie is not just for plus-size people, for anyone who's ever felt uncomfortable in their body. So what starts us, you know, her meeting her like incredible like fat friend, turns into her getting like compared to this trio of girls. One is like super tall and gangly and moves to the world. Like a drunk baby giraffe. One is super short and has to wear kids clothes, even though she doesn't want to. And then the other one is disabled. She's a ambulatory wheelchair loser. And she is without a doubt, the toughest person in this entire screen. She is the leader of the group, you know. So it's just really playing in that idea of, we want to wear the clothes that make us feel confident. We want to, you know, be ourselves. But also it's so cool in the feedback we've been getting. Even from our actors being like, I wish I had seen a character like this. And now I get to play it. So for me, I'm just so proud of our cast and our crew bringing this together. Because, you know, seeing someone who looks like you on screen or turning an idea you had about a certain person or their background on its head, of being like, oh, she's disabled. It doesn't mean she's like weak. It doesn't mean she should be an inspiring story. You're like, no, she'll mess you up. If you mess with her friends, right? It's just, it's so, so fun. So for us, that representation was the end all be all, having that. And Rory Bergman, our casting director, who's based in New York, really, she and her team just crushed it, crushed it, created a really safe space with us. Because a lot of the people that were auditioning had never auditioned before. They were, you know, it was their first time. So we wanted to make sure they felt safe and they felt supported and didn't feel like it was some kind of a cattle call that there were people. Oh, I love all of that. Love all of that. You're the best. So I want to like snowball off of that because with such a variety of cast, such a great representation, a true representation in your cast and everything, what has it been like developing Empire Waste? Or that's a great question. So for me, I knew I wanted to have a more diverse representation on screen and on the page. But I also wanted to identify that I am a cisgender able-bodied white woman, right? So that's why for me to make sure I wasn't creating characters based off of stereotypes. That's why live readings were so important. That's why like I brought in a DEI expert really, early to do vetting of the script. Down the road, I brought in a dear friend who specifically vets the role of immigration representation, immigrant representation in film because of the main characters of grandmother, is an immigrant who, you know, and I wanted to make sure she was well represented, that she didn't feel like a stereotype. So doing all this work was really important. So it was a mix, right? And I talk about this a lot for writers. Anyone interested? When you don't be afraid, in addition to like sharing with other writers, share your script with people who are impacted by that work, right? So for me, I shared it with families. I shared it with mothers, fathers. I shared it with men and women. I would have men come up to me after screening, after readings and go, "I know this isn't for me, but," and I'm like, "Do you have a body?" And they're like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Have you ever felt weird about your body?" They're like, "Yes." And I'm like, "That's for you," right? But I also tested it with social workers. I tested it with psychologists. I tested it with healthcare providers who had been trained in what's called haze, the health and every size movement, right? To make sure, personally, my biggest fear was that I was going to inadvertently hurt somebody with the film, especially something that deals with body image, can be really triggering. And so an example of that development was, you know, I like, workshoped it. I did 17 live readings across the country in 2019, which I'm, oh my God, I'm still tired. But it was so worth it because no audience got the same script or twice. I come from a live theater background. And so hearing an audience really understanding when something works or flops or needs to be tightened, that for me is so key to my work. But also getting to talk to my audience early, getting to hear how they feel instead of waiting till the movies already cut. And it's locked, like, to know that you can change it. But an example of something that, it's like infiltrated the whole project. I was at a birthday party for one of my dear friends and her friend is a social worker. And I immediately started talking about the movie. I, like, you have to understand, for like four out of these five years, all I did was talk about the movie. I felt like year four, I was like, I don't want to talk about my body, but like year five, I'm back, I'm good. But like, I talked to her, she's a social worker, who specifically works with teens and body image, and I am eating disorders. And I told her out, the mean girl in the movie, the antagonist, controls what her friends eat. She clearly has an issue. And she goes, whatever you do, do not show what she's eating. And I was like, what? Because as a filmmaker, you'd be like, okay, you have to tell a story, right? And so it would be an overhead shot for like, you know, identical plates full of the same food. And she goes, because someone struggling with an eating disorder will take a picture, will see her, they'll take a picture of whatever she's eating and they'll replicate that. Because they think it'll let them look like, I know your face was my face. And so I went, oh my God, thank you for telling me. And I ran that up my entire flagpole to every single department. So you do something when you're making a movie called a page turn, you have everybody in the department in like an auditorium or big room with you, while you go through every page of the script to make sure all departments know exactly what they need. And so I announced during that meeting, I had announced earlier to my teens like props, cinematographer, all these different things that we would not be showing the food and heads up for future projects, please spread the word, right? And so that's why for me, the development process is so important and why I give full credit to everyone who's been part of that journey in making this feel as locked as possible as done with care, right? I didn't, we don't see our main character like binge eating, for example. We don't see it. I didn't want that to happen. I didn't want people to point her and say, oh, see, she should just stop doing that, right? It's really seeing her as a person. It's seeing someone with empathy and humanity and taking away the stereotypes and self-loathing that a lot of us have been trained to have for food, for our bodies, for a body that doesn't look like a heavy air quotes, perfect body, what is that? It's not a real thing. And you know, and I say this constantly, if the diet industry was successful, if it worked, if dieting worked in that industry, they would have put themselves out of business, right? It doesn't work. It doesn't. It is an absolutely like $20 billion industry preying on people's fear by making people hate themselves. And to that, I say, I'm gonna put you out of business because you, we could be spending my money so many better places and without harming people. Yeah, so I'm really proud of the development process and it's actually something that I use for all my projects. I did the same thing. Okay, I know a kid was more like on stage like that day because I wrote it a couple months before I put it on, which was the stone story. But I love testing out my work with people that have a direct stake in it to make sure it feels true. And that's what I love mentoring other artists to do as well. Don't be afraid to pursue people in your community, get their feedback, especially if they're, you know, their work is featured in it to make sure you're on the right track. I love that. I love those ideas though. I mean, one thing I just wanna say before I bounce to my final question, I mean, is that I love that you said, I don't tell people what to do with their bodies. The only thing I tell people to do with their bodies, love your body, accept your body, own your body because no matter what size, shape, whatever you are, there is nothing more attractive or just like, oh my gosh, then someone who just has the confidence and just owns it, we all have insecurities, everybody. And when you see someone, no matter what they look like, that is just like, I'm me and I love me. You want to be friends with them. You wanna be in the room with them. You wanna just, what's your secret? I want that. And not only do they look confident, they look happy. Right. And honestly, I know that it sounds like it's one of those like, you know, telling someone just smile, just let it go. I know it's hard, but at the same time, the solution to your biggest body dysmorphia issues really is just love you, just be happy. It's not gonna happen overnight, but if you go that way, oh my gosh, nobody's gonna judge you. And if they are judging you, I promise you, the rest of the people in the room are against them, not you. They'll be like, what are you talking about? She is fabulous in that bright green shirt and polka dot pants. Oh my gosh, styling trend center, you know. Honestly, I talk about it in two ways. The first way is if you have someone judging you, like seeing like they're looking at you up and down, they're judging you, remember that? That is a them problem, which I know can feel like something you'd say to your parent would say to you about a bully, but we can't change someone else's self-loathing or relationship with their own body. We can just move through the world as we are and love ourselves, or treat ourselves as that's what we can control. The other thing I talk about is energy. So imagine all the energy you spend hating yourself. You spend limiting yourself. You spend picturing worst-case scenarios. I say this as a generalized anxiety individual, right? Wow, my anxiety could power a small country, right? Like, you know. And so looking at that, imagine placing that energy into making something that matters to you. Doing something that matters to you, pursuing something that matters to you. It doesn't have to be the arts. It could be like volunteering in your neighborhood. It can be, you know, working with mutually in your community. That can be, you know, I don't know, going like doing whatever you want. Imagine that energy. And I'll tell you, like, working on this movie has been, I talk about it all the time, a really deeply healing experience for me, because all that inner criticism I have of, you don't deserve to be in front of this room of people because you look that way. Or you don't deserve to be here. You haven't done enough. You've never made a movie before. How dare you ask for money? How dare you? How dare you? How dare you? That inner critic of mine saying, "I'm not ready." That's basically why I founded my production company, which is called Try Anyway Productions. It is my inner, just my motto for myself because I hear that and I go, "You know what? I hear you. I'm going to try anyway." And I'll report back, right? Instead of being like not trying, just try anyway. Do it. And guess what? When it comes to perfectionism, which is what anxiety is, right? When we try, we learn. So if you're scared to start something, if you don't feel like you deserve to be in that space, reframe, ask yourself, "What do I want to learn? What do I want to learn with this project?" Right? Like if I want to make a podcast, I'd be like, "Okay, what do I want to learn?" Well, my friend Andrew has a podcast. So why don't I ask him how it works, right? Or why don't I read about it online or research? You know, why don't I buy my microphone and figure it out by like a tactile learner, right? And so reframing that energy from being, I don't deserve to be here and belittling yourself. Put that energy outward into the world and make something because it turned that anxiety into action and you will go so far. And that is for me this journey, right? I did nine readings across the country in two weeks, which is nuts. No one does that. And I was like, "Do people do that?" And I was like, "I don't think so." But I had one friend in Austin. I'd been doing readings in LA and New York and Boston that I had lived around there and I had friends around there. And then my friend in Austin was like, "Hey, I'd love to have you here." And I can always put out the call with my local friends and she's like, "You can stay with me." And I was like, "What if I went other places? What if I tested it not just in the coasts? What if I tested it across the country?" And that ended up being so out of my comfort zone, but then was my comfort zone. And now what I teach other writers to do is go outside that comfort zone because you will meet other people whose feedback and response is like how I secured my funding. But I was able to say this movie resonated with people across the country age 14 to 84. 14 to 84. And not just saying, "I love it." But saying, "Hey, I'm confused by this." Or, "I don't feel like this character is like queer enough. I don't, I want to see her be a role model for my gay little sister. Like I want, you know, why isn't she more openly out?" So like, you know, making these changes thanks to feedback from other people. Go outside your comfort zone. Try and learn, learn as much as you can. Like instead of making a perfect project, if I had tried to make the perfect movie Andrew, I never would have gotten past draft one. I was like, "I want to learn how to make a movie. This is an MFA, MDA for me." And that helped me keep one foot in front of the other, keep moving because there was always something to learn. Even if there was a setback, which there were so many, you know, there's always something to learn. There's always something that there's resources out there. Or you just learn by doing, which is why my producer Crystal Collins and I love teaching now, like we always have. But like to go to especially first-time feature directors to be like, "Here's what to expect. Here's what we got slapped in a face with, right?" So you, even if it happens to you, you're not going to be as blind as you did, right? And you know, so just learning how to stand in your power. No one can make you feel small unless you let them. And there are people who love making out of people feel small. It's like their favorite sport because they're deeply insecure with themselves and live love therapy, you know? All that good stuff. Well, as we wrap things up, I would love to know if our listeners would like more information about Empire Waste. Or about you, maybe I'd like to reach out to you. How can they do so? Absolutely. So you can go to empirewastefilm.com and also follow us on Instagram @EmpireWasteFilm. And then I am @ClaireAube.com and @ClaireAube on Instagram. And if you can email me through my website or DM me, I love talking to people about the arts. I love also just connecting great people together. I have a lot of younger writers who reach out to me. And I love connecting people who are like kind of in the same space with each other to go, "Hey, you guys should write together. You guys should chat," you know? So, and also I just love getting updates from people who are trying anyway, right? Who are doing the thing. So like, don't be afraid to like send me a humble brag about what you've done. Even if it's like, I wrote a paragraph. I'll be like, "Yeah, you wrote that paragraph." I am like a human cheerleader. I am, I call myself a drive by complimenter. I love cheering people. So, yeah. Well, Claire, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. We're sharing this incredible film. I cannot wait to see it. It's going to be amazing. And I can't wait to talk to you about the next big thing you're doing. So thank you so much for your time today. Thank you. And I can't wait to let you know as soon as I know where it's going to be playing in New York so we can go. Yes. Yes, it has to be an amazing writer, director, world changer. Claire Ayub, whose new film, Empire Waste, is coming to theaters across the country this fall. You can find out more information about this by visiting empirewastefilm.com. We also have some contact information for our guests and the film that we'll be posting in our episode description as well as on our social media posts. But I'm telling you, you need to run. Don't walk. As soon as tickets are on sale, get those tickets. This is such an amazing, important, empowering film. This is the film for now. This is the film we needed 20 years ago. So come out, support. Not only this great artist we had in our show, but all of the amazing artists who put this film together. This is such an incredible work. Again, the film is called Empire Waste coming to theaters this fall. We'll see you September 27th. And we want to add for our American listeners that Election Day is November 5th. Make sure you are registered to vote and do your democratic duty. Make a plan now. You can find out how and where you can register to vote by visiting vote.gov. The future demands that we fight for it now. So until next time, I'm Andrew Cortez reminding you to turn off your cell phones, unwrap your candies, and keep talking about the theater. In a stage whisper. Thank you. If you like what you hear, please leave a five-star review, like and subscribe. You can also find us on Facebook and Instagram at Stage Whisper Pod. And feel free to reach out to us with your comments and personal stories at stagewhisperpod@gmail.com. And be sure to check out our website for all things Stage Whisper and theater. You'll be able to find merchandise, tours, tickets, and more. Simply visit stagewhisperpod.com. Our theme song is Maniac by Jazzar. Other music on this episode provided by Jazzar and Billy Murray. You can also become a patron of our show by logging on to patreon.com/stagewhisperpod. There you will find all the information about our backstage pass as well as our tip jar. Thank you so much for your generosity. We could not do this show without you. [Music]