(upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hi everybody, how you doing? - Well, that's good. I'm Charlie O'Connor here with PH.O.I. Fliers. Obviously, our director of fun and games, Bill Matz, is not here today, but I have for you one Kelly Henkel of Broad Street Hockey. Kelly, thank you for joining us today. - In the Bill seat, which always makes me nervous. - In the William seat. - Yeah, I'm not used to, it's this weird thing where I can't be on this side of you. - Okay. - Makes me uncomfortable. I have to be on the other side of you. But I'm gonna make it work. I'm gonna do Bill Proud. - Okay, okay. - That's the goal. - And this isn't even gonna be the only time we're doing this again tomorrow. - We're doing it tomorrow. - Yeah, it's a two day Charlie and Kelly show. - Apologies in advance to the watchers. - To not apologize, it is going to be fantastic. - It's gonna be awesome. - And we have a lot to talk about. - We do. - We have Fliers stuff to talk about. Another game last night. They have now played two preseason games. And it appears that the first round of roster cut downs are imminent. They have not yet been announced. They could potentially be announced while we are on the show. So we shall see how that goes. But to kick things off, let's talk about the preseason game that happened last night in Montreal. Game one on Sunday went real well. - Real good. - Real, real, real, real good. Six to strong performance by basically all the important players. Last night's game, not so much. - Watching that game was a real slog. - So did you also watch the stream with no commentators? - Yeah. - So no commentators. - No commentators. - I know a lot of people say that they kind of like that. Like it kind of feels like you're being in the, you're in the rink, you hear the game sounds and like all that stuff is true. But also like I have a bird brain. And so I find that at home, where there are so many distractions, I need Jim Jackson or Tim Saunders telling me what to pay attention to. - You need them to keep you tethered to reality. - Yes, at the game it's easy. You're there, you're sitting there, you're watching it. You see all the things. At home with nothing happening, it was just like, my brain was just like drifting constantly and it didn't help that the game was kind of boring and ultimately not very good. - I think that was my problem. If it was a regular season game that had actual stakes, I think it would have been much easier for me to stay intently focused on the action because it was a pre-season game and not only a pre-season game, but a pre-season game with no Mitch Koff, no Luchenko. Like none of the really fun young guys were in this game. So it wasn't even like you were watching to wait for the next Mitch Koff shift. Like, oh, that's something to pay attention to. Instead, she's like, oh, there's L-A-T-A-R-A, oh, cool. There's-- - I wish she'd do something. - There's Risto again. There's Igor Zamolo who actually didn't have a bad game, but-- - Oh look, it's Ronald Atter again. - Ronald Atter doing Ronald Atter things, which on this night we're not good, but we will get to that. But I do want to go through real quick. Just the general game itself, they lose five nothing. Couple of things I do want to point out though, number one, it should not have been a shutout. Shawgatory did score a goal in the first period. Like, that happened. They blew it dead because they didn't realize that it was already in the net when Anthony Richard pushed the pad a little, the goalie's pad a little bit. That was a goal. So in my, my Shawgatory has scored. - Preseason for everybody, right? - He scored a preseason goal. - Yeah. - The NHL may say it didn't happen. - Yeah. - I say it happened, and that's all that matters. - The rest of the season, really, it was a five one game. And if you give them that goal, in reality, it was a one one game going into the third period, which is when the wheels start. - He teaches everything. - And it wasn't like, by the score sheet, they got killed, aside from by the goals. You know, they got outshot 26 to 25. It's not like they got obliterated from a territorial standpoint. They lost the expected goals battle, 2.81 to 1.81 again, deserved to lose, but it wasn't as if they got obliterated. They were the not as good team on paper, and they lost the game. It was just that they lost the game by a significant goal differential. So how do they get blown out? - What happened in the third period, Charlie? - Well, one thing that happened in the third period was, there was a new goalie in that. Now, Cal Peterson in fairness didn't play the back half of the second period as well. - Yeah. - But he went full Cal. - I'm not gonna blame it entirely on Cal, but he did go full Cal. - He went full Cal Peters, and he gave us the full Cal Peters in experience. He reminded all of us that if we need to call up a goalie from the Phantoms this year, it's gonna be, it's gonna be fun. - I think the person who probably benefited the most from this game was Ettou Makaniemi, who was the guy who played the first half of the game. He's funny, he still has the like, San Jose color mask, which is very funny because he used to be in that organization. But I thought in the beginning of the game, he had a really, really bad misadventure behind the net, where he almost gives up a goal because he just basically misplays the puck. And you're thinking, oh boy, this is gonna be rough. And then the rest of the 30ish minutes he played, I thought he was fine. - So I know we're not explicitly talking about the Sunday's game, but since I wasn't here yesterday and we're talking about goal tending, I thought Makaniemi looked better to me than Ivan Fedotov. - So we had this conversation on the show yesterday. - I missed yesterday's show. - About the fact that I was at the game and I didn't think Fedotov looked terrible. I thought he probably could have stopped the second goal. First goal goes up next seal or whatever. That's just bad luck. Second goal probably could have done a better job fighting through screens, but I didn't see anything terribly concerning because I'm mostly watching the skaters. I'm not watching the goalie quite as intently as maybe it shows up on video because at all times you can watch the goalie if you want to. It seemed like the people that watched on television came away very, very concerned with Fedotov because he just didn't look good. - Yes, that's what it was. So like I, to be fair, I was paying more attention to him than I would a normal goal tend to go on a normal day. Just because I think there's so much about this season is hinging on the goal tending being at least not a disaster. And a lot of that is going to involve him being not a disaster so that Ersen can get as many nights off as possible. So I was very invested in seeing him play this game. And I agree with you that the goals really weren't the problem. Like it wasn't like it wasn't a Cal-Paterson situation where it didn't look like he knew how to play goalie in professional hockey, but like he just, he never looked, like you know how, and I hate to bring up Carter Hart, but remember the Carter Hart experience. You always, when you watched him, you always knew he's always square to the shooter. You can always see that he's tracking the puck. He always seemed to anticipate where he needed to be ahead of needing to be there. - From a technical standpoint, Carter Hart was about as sound as you can get. - Ivan Fedotov did not look like that. Like in my mind, he never looked like he was square to the shooter. He always looked like he was scrambling to get where he needed to be. He never looked like he was tracking the puck. Well, it always looked like his angles were off. And it made me nervous because, I remember you telling me last season, or when he came over over the summer that he has played games on a North American sized rink before, but obviously he's also played games on the international side, but it's not like he's never. - The KHL, it really varies from team to team. Some teams have the NHL sized rink. Some teams have the international side. - I'm definitely willing to give him like, okay, maybe it was nerves. Maybe he's still learning the angles. Like all of that kind of stuff. It just made me feel less sure about the goal tending than I was talking myself into being before watching that. So here is what I'll say to that. And you might be a hundred percent, right? That photoed off ultimately, this is a sign of a guy who just is not good enough to be in the NHL. But you compare it to McCarterhart, and I think that's a really interesting comparison because, one of the reasons why Carterhart had to, to become the goalie prospect and the quality NHL goalie ultimately became, one of the reasons why he had to be that technically sound and that good at all the angles is because relative to what NHL teams right now want in goalies, he was relatively small. - Mm-hmm. - Ivan Fudotov is enormous. - No, he did. - So I wonder, and again, you might be right that this was a harbinger of things to come about Fudotov just not having it. Let me put it this way, I talk to people at practice, like other people who follow the team, and they said the same thing you did, that he looked bad in their concern. So I've heard this from enough people you included, but I respect to not just dismiss this and say yeah, maybe the season's gonna start and he's just gonna be terrible. But I do wonder if part of this is, you may have to recalibrate your expectations or how a goalie looks because heart, and even air sent to a degree, he's not quite as fundamentally sound as hard as, but he's very fundamentally sound. These are very fundamentally sound, technically sound goalies. Fudotov might not be that, but it might not matter because he's just so large. That's true. - He would not have to be to still be good, or at least decent. - If he could be like, you know, 45% Dominic Haschik, who always looked completely insane. Every save that he made look like, just flop of your body around and hoping that it hits something and every time it worked. If that's the case, all right. I mean, ultimately if he stops the puck, I don't really care how he does it. - Fair. - Just that I think because I think everyone was so full, everyone's very focused on him because we don't know what he is. And what he is is important, but I think we are probably like micro analyzing everything that's happening more than we probably ought to be. So it'll be interesting to see how he looks in the next game. - I just, I don't know. I don't know what he's going to look like when the games matter. And possibly within 10 games, we're going to realize this guy just can't hack it as an NHL goalie. It's not another round of possibilities. I'm just saying that perhaps, perhaps you are correct that he doesn't have the kind of technical sound that you would ideally want in a goalie, but perhaps it might not matter that much because he has just such a size advantage over say, a card or hard or even a Sam Harrison, that he's able to be less technically sound and still make most of the same. - Yeah, I'm not writing him off. I'm just, I think I just kind of hoped that I would watch him play a game and it would be more like that one period that he played at the start where he got in and he looked fine and he was playing with pads that he never put on before and he had been in North America for 15 minutes and he looked pretty good. And I was like, all right, we got something here. And instead I didn't. - And so you saw the same guy that scared you in that second game. - Yeah, yeah, right. - I guess the one thing they could theoretically do if he's real, real bad in like the first 20 games of the year. - Call up, Alexa. - Call up, call us up. - What you doing? - Yeah, there's an NHL spot available now. - You wanna come? - Yeah. - You wanna come out. - It's like 13 hours in the future, I think, where you are. So what you doing? - There we go. - I'm gonna come hang. - So hey, do you guess? - Yeah. - It's the flier. - Once again. - You never rule anything out of the stage. - That short-sighted dummy. You could have just stayed here. Already we would have been saying, "Maybe we should give Colosau a look, like already." We're not even to the first game of the season yet. - And that kid just didn't wanna wait. What a dumb, dumb. - So. - Anywho. - Fido Tov. - We're questioning. - Yeah. - Peterson, we pretty much know is terrible. - We know. - Yeah, we know who Cal is. - Etude Makeniami. - Makeniami. - All right. - There might be something there. - There might be something there. Now, so just to explain for everybody who isn't aware, Makeniami is on a propitio. He's on a professional trial. So he does not have a contract right now. However, if the fliers so choose, they could give him a contract at some point in camp or at the end of camp. The obvious reason why he's here is because Colosau writes it. And the idea is, well, if he dramatically outplays Cal Peterson, NHL teams generally need to use their third goalie at some point during the year. - At some point, you're gonna have to, yes. - And if Makeniami looks much better than Cal Peterson, then those are your two guys in the NHL. And Makeniami probably is the first guy that comes up if Harrison or Fido Tov gets hurt or one of the two guys just stinks. So to me, he's very much in the mix. And I think he was definitely a bright spot. - Yeah. - From the game last night wasn't perfect. But I think he certainly looked better by comparison when you saw what Cal Peterson did. One person who was not a bright spot, the opposite of a bright spot, one might say, Kelly Hinkle. One ronnelled Adder. - Ah, enough already. - It was rough. And I say this as someone who has long been-- - I know, you've been a Ronnie Adder guy. - A Ronnie Adder guy. I wanted to see him get a real shot at this camp. Going through some of the details, he's no longer waiver exempt. So there is the risk where if you send him through waivers, you might lose him after this performance. I don't know if any NHL team would have any interest in him if they've watched any tape of this game. But he is a big right-handed shooting defenseman with some NHL experience who was taken in the third round who can skate decently well. Not great, but he's not a liability from a skating standpoint. He's got a big shot. There are some tools there where you think maybe a team might claim him if he hits waivers. So I went into this camp thinking, I wonder how much of a shot they're going to give him. From the start of camp, he was kind of buried, but he got a look in this preseason game. And you're like, all right, this is the opportunity for Ronnie Adder to change the narrative, to catch the attention of the coaches, to make it clear that he should be playing through the end of camp and having a real look and potentially be in the number eight in the starting roster. - Right. - Well, he caught their attention, but not in a good way. In fact, and probably the worst way possible. This was a, I've seen a lot of guys have bad preseason games. This was like top tier bad preseason game by a guy trying to make the team. - A real doozy. That one turnover was right in front of the Montreal net, which is him and the other guy. And all he has to do is skate the puck out of the zone. - Or shoot the puck out of the zone. - Or just kick it to the boards, do something. - Whatever, anything but hand it to the other player who then just goes right up and scores a goal. It was very ugly. And it is a bummer because Ronnie Adder is one of those guys. He makes me think of like Phil Myers. Like all of the physical tools are there. Everything is there. - Yes, he has the physical tools. Maybe not as, Phil Myers was a freak. He could skate incredibly well. He was bigger. He was stronger than everyone. But I do agree that Adder has enough physical tools to be an NHL defense man. - Yeah. - He's just not ever putting them all together at once. And it's getting to the point where it's like there's so many guys in this defensive system that I just don't know what you do with him at this point. Like, I mean, I guess he can be a phantom forever. That's fine, get mad, knock yourself out. Maybe he gets it together down there and then maybe a couple of guys get hurt and he gets another shot to see if he could do something. All right, that's fine, whatever. But I just don't, I don't see a point in continuing to try to make him a thing. Like, I think this ship has sailed. At this point, he's an NHL player and you put him down there. And if you gotta call him up, you gotta call him up. I don't think we have to worry about anyone claiming him. - I definitely don't think they have to worry about it. At least not now. - Especially this pretty year. Like when everyone's going up and down through waivers, like all of this happening, I feel like every organization probably has a big right-handed shooting defenseman that they're all waiting to try to see if there'll be a thing because everyone's obsessed with big right-handed defensemen. So I don't really think we have to worry about that part. I just don't see, I just don't think you waste a roster spot on a guy that's showing you nothing at this point. - Yeah, and I don't think they're going to. - It would be crazy if they did. Even as the seven, like, there's just no point. - No, not a chance. And I think too, like the reason why I came into this camp and treed by Adam was because I looked at what they did last year with Igor Zomol, where he was kind of in the same boat. He'd been a prospect with the organization for a while, hadn't kicked the door down, and then suddenly was no longer waiver exempt. And they very clearly went into camp, basically they didn't say it out loud, but he did not have an incredible camp. He was fine, he had a fine enough camp and that was enough because they wanted to see what they had in this camp. That they were high enough on his potential that they wanted to give him a year. And they did not want to risk losing him on waivers. So I thought, all right, Adert's kind of in the same boat. - Logically. - Maybe they're going to approach Adert at this camp the same way. Then at the start of camp, when he was paired with, I forget who he was. - Carter Southeran? - Yeah, he was paired with Carter Southeran. He was paired with, like, guys who have no chance of making. - Yeah, no chance, got it. - No chance of making the team. And that tells you, okay, he's not in their mix. - Because John DeRoele and Danny Breair can say all they want that, you know, the lines and pairings, the first day camp don't matter. They don't matter in the sense that they're not necessarily going to be the lines and pair in game one. But they matter in that they show where these guys stand in the hierarchy at the start of camp. And Ronnie Adert was very clear from day one, was not high. And I was a little bit like, that kind of sucks, you know? I mean, I think higher of Ronnie Adert personally than like Adam Jennings and guys who were in better spots are camp. And I was thinking, you know, I don't know if I agree with this. Well, if what they've been seeing from him is what we just watched on Monday night, I understand why they're low on him. Because that version of Ronnie Adert does not look anywhere near like an NHL player. And I like the skillset still, but I agree with you that they're in a position now where he's not making the team. If somebody claims him, Godspeed, have fun with Ronnie Adert. If nobody claims him, yeah, he's down in the HL. This is the last year of his contract. And maybe he plays out the contract and then signed somewhere else. Yeah, maybe that's where this goes. It seems like the logical conclusion to the Ronnie Adert story. And honestly, I would be fine with it. Because it just seems very unlikely to me that at some point he's just gonna like, learn how to play hockey. Like it just doesn't. I will say I've seen much better from him. Like I don't think he's actually this bad. I think it was a really bad game. Because he has skills. He played games in the NHL last year. And he didn't look bad in most of those games. He played games when he got signed out of college right at the end of that season. He's played NHL games. And his numbers in the NHL, like, I'm gonna pull them up for you. 29 NHL games play two goals, six points. Underline metrics, 53.92, expect a goal share, five on five. Like, these are pretty good. Now, he was obviously being used in a sheltered third pair role in those games, but did pretty well in those minutes. So I came into the season thinking there might be something there. But regardless of whether there's something there or not. And this is really important to understanding, I think, Tour de Rela's view of training camp, but also just the organization's view of training camp. Well, it matters to a degree, you know, where you were drafted, what you've done in the NHL before. If you haven't fully established yourself and you've played some games, what you did in the NHL. In the end, you have to show up and play well in the show. And if you don't, it's kind of like, sorry, dude. We gave you a shot. You know, it was a fair competition. Yes, Atert started out camp behind the eight ball, but he could have gotten himself out from under it if he would have went out there last night. And in his 15 minutes of play, looked real good. Instead, he looked awful. And now he's just confirmed all of the organization's biases about him and what he is and what he isn't. And now I assume he's out of the mix. It's a bummer, but them's the breaks. Them's are the breaks. But you know, it's a good break. What's that Chuck? A good break is calling up Empire today. That is a very, very good break. 'Cause with Empire today, you get shopping home convenience, the right product for your needs, quick and professional installation and a price match guarantee. Look, of course Empire has copycats. We've all heard the ad so many times. They have people who are trying to be Empire. But the thing is, is that they can't beat Empire today on quality services and speeds so they only can advertise low quality products that Empire simply won't carry. Empire today won't promise the lowest prices because anyone who does that is putting flooring in your home, they wouldn't put in theirs. Empire's philosophy is to help you find what you need, not overwhelm you with thousands of choices and substitutes. 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For more information, visit truemark.com/PHLY, Kelly Hinkle. - What up? - We've just gotten done talking about Ronnie Atard. - Yeah. - I have not yet seen an announcement of cuts. So I'm gonna assume they're not out yet. That might be later tonight. Might be his latest tomorrow morning because really- - Five minutes after the show. - Five minutes after the show would probably be what's gonna happen. So we don't know exactly who's being cut, but what we can talk about is what comes next. So here's a look at the schedule for those who are watching along with us on YouTube. Today or tomorrow, first round of cuts. Now, most likely these are gonna be, you know, guys like Carter Souther and Carson Bjarnas soon. - The obvious. - His team has already announced that he's going back to Brandon. We knew that. We knew that they had no chance. We're talking about the juniors guys. We're also probably talking about guys who might not even be on the fan-ups. They might end up in the ECHL playing for Reading. That's probably gonna be the first round of cuts, but that will happen either later today or tomorrow. Then Thursday, next pivot point. First home preseason game. They play the New York Islanders first game at the Wells Fargo Center. I guess this will be the last first preseason game at a place called the Wells Fargo Center. - Oh, that's right. - Yeah. - I forgot. - The first left. - The first left. - Last first. - Last first. - That's exciting. That's that. Then on Saturday, second preseason home game against Boston. And then Sunday, this actually isn't on the preseason schedule that we have on here, but I will tell you because it is, it's a point that makes them, or force them to make decisions. On Sunday, the 29th, that is the first day of Fanham's training camp. So a lot of the guys who are gonna be on the Fanhams that have really no chance of making the team, presumably they will be cut either right after the Saturday game or Sunday morning so they can be there in time for the Sunday Fanhams training camp. So we do have pivot points. We have moments coming where the fliers are gonna have to make cuts, maybe not quite there yet, but the next week they're gonna be cutting a lot of guys. - That's exciting. - So I feel like this is a good time for us to talk about who still has a shot. - Right. - Ronnie Atter no longer has a shot. - No, he doesn't. - It would blow me away. If, I mean, he might survive this round of cuts, it's possible. - Maybe. - I don't think he's going out already. He might not get in another game. They might just have him stick around to skate around with the team and then get cut when Fanhams can start. But he might not get cut in this round. That said, I would assume after that performance his chances of making the roster, as you said, they're done so. There are other players, however, who might not be done so. - Yeah. - And I wanna first start out with the forwards. And before we talk about the forwards who are in the mix still, or at least forwards who I think are still in the mix, I wanna just take a quick look at the guys who we assume are gonna make the team. So this is the NHL forward depth chart right now. Now, you can quibble with some of the lines. I don't know if, right now Owen Tibb, it's been on a line with Frost and Mitch Cobb. Maybe that's where he ends up. My guess is eventually they're gonna bump him up because I don't think he's looked that great with that trio too much. But these are your lines in theory. You got, you have a quibble? - Can I just say that's a good hockey to you? - It's a good hockey team. - It's a good hockey team. - I like it. - Okay. - Did not have a bad hockey team. - It's Kelly Hinkle approved. - That's a good hockey team. - That's a good hockey team. - I wanna hear about it. Look at the third line. Like this is a good hockey team. Nobody tell me otherwise. - All right. - So for our listeners who are not watching on YouTube, I'm gonna read off the lines. - The lines that's so intrigued, one Kelly Hinkle, line one. Owen Tibbitt, Sean Guterrier, Travis Connectney. Line two. Tyson Forrester, Morgan Frost, Maffi Michkoff. Line three, Joel Faraby, Scott Lawton, Bobby Brink. Line four. Noah Kates, Ryan Paling, Garnet Hathaway. 13th forward, Nick Deloriae. And then we have available spot question one. - Question mark. - Because in theory, especially now the Flyers have, now it's in limbo a bit, but they have deleted the contract of Ryan Johansson. So they have cap space now. They could carry 14 forwards if they want to. They are starting the season out on a four game road trip. Usually you take extras on that trip. And if they have the cap space, why not bring an extra guy? So far they've been lucky with injuries, knock on wood in camp. But if somebody gets hurt, that could open the door for someone else, that's possible. I don't think there's a scenario where any of these 13 names we have on the board right now aren't on the team. - Okay, that makes me happy. I was actually a little bit concerned that they'd be messing around with Bobby Brink again. - But he's looked so good. - He looked really good in the first game. - Yeah, really good in the first preseason. Also, he's no longer waiver exempt. - Right. - I could envision, we talked about this on the show, I could see a world where he isn't in the starting lineup for game one. - Okay. - I do not think there is a world where they would wave him because they would immediately lose him. - Oh, 100%. - He's on a $1.5 million cap bit. Like someone's claiming that guy. It's happening. It's a cheap deal. He's a young guy. Show some potential last year. So these are your 13 guys that are making the team. - Yeah, yeah. Okay. - There's really a spot for one guy to make this team without pushing some unexpected guy down to the minors. Now, where that guy would play would depend upon who it is. And this is where we're gonna get into the guys who I wanna talk about. These are, in my mind, the four guys who still have a shot to make this team as the 14th forward, but not necessarily the 14th forward in the lineup. It could be the 12th forward. It could be the ninth forward if you're looking at it from a third line perspective. So these are the four guys I'm looking at as likely. And then there's two who probably not, but there's still maybe in the mix. So I'm gonna name them all. And then we'll go through, namely the first four. - Okay. - Final two, whatever we can pass them by. If they excel in on Thursday, we'll give a show to A-Balls or Oscar Eclin. But for now, four I wanna talk about are, Jetluchenko, L.A. De Noye, Oli Lixell, an Anthony Richard. I think these are your four that plausibly have a chance to grab that 14th spot if they indeed do use a 14th forward. So let's start out with the most fun guy. Start out with Jet, the man with the name that essentially says his best characteristic. Jetluchenko, I think is still very much in the mix. Now it's possible that in five minutes, we're gonna get the cuts and he's gonna be sent back to juniors and all this is gonna be useless. But assuming that doesn't happen, and given how well he's played, I have to think, I have to think that at the very least they're gonna keep him for a lot of camp, if not the entirety of camp. I have to think he's gonna stay in the mix because he's earned it, Kelly. What are your thoughts of here about one Jetluchenko? - I'm obsessed with him. - You are obsessed with Jetluchenko. - I'm obsessed with him. He has looked so much better than I expected. And not at all out of place, playing amongst. Now obviously this is training camp. You're playing against a lot of guys that aren't NHL hockey players. But he is not at any point during any action that I have seen him in, looked out of place. - I agree. - He has not looked like a child that needs to be sent back to the minors. That said, I firmly believe the flyers are cowards. They will absolutely not keep him. So that's number one. Number two, going back to that lineup that you had on the screen there. I mean, like where, what are we doing here? Are we taking Lawton off center and putting him on a wing and putting Jet on the third line? I don't want him on the fourth line, right? So you have to-- - I would have to assume that's where you play. - So then you're not scratching Lawton. So then who are we taking out, Kate's? - Probably. I mean, there's no guarantee that Kate's is even gonna be in the game one lineup if they decide that they need, you know, bodyguard Nick Delurier to protect Martha. - Of course, yes. - I mean, I would definitely have Kate's at fourth line left wing to start the year. I'm not sure that's where the flyers are. I would assume that if Luchenko makes the team, they're probably going to bench both Kate's and Delurier. - I would hope. - 'Cause I can't envision a world where they bench Hathaway. I definitely not benching Paling. - I guess there's a world where they bench Brink. They say Brink, you're out of the lineup because we have to have Delurier in the lineup too. - That would be so annoying. - That's possible. - I wouldn't put a past job toward a relative because then it's like, well, we have an 18 year old and we have a 19 year old. - Yeah, we gotta have Dad out there. - We need Dad at the lineup to protect them. I can see it. But I do agree that if Luchenko makes this team, he's slotting on the third line, whether it's between Fereby and Brink, whether maybe they bump tip it down or something to give him some more support. I don't know, but yeah. I can't imagine that they put Luchenko on this team and then give him eight minutes as the foresee. He's playing on the third line if he makes it. - So just to clarify for both me and people listening, he can play nine games without burning a year of his ELC. So he could play nine. - Right. - And then get sent back to Guelph. - Guelph. - Guelph. - Guelph. - Guelph Storm. - Guelph Storm. It's my understanding our garbage team, right? - They're not very good. - Not great. Okay, so he could play nine and then get sent down. I would like to see them give him the nine. - Okay, that's where your head's at right now. - Just to see, because at that point, it will be full NHL speed, games that matter, full NHL competition, no more babying. Like this is the real deal, this is the show. It would be kind of cool given how good he's looked in all of the situations he's been in so far to see what he looks like in the actual NHL against actual NHL players. I would like to see it just because he's looked so good. - I think it would be fun. - I don't think they're going to do it. So here is what I will say about my understanding of, and when I say the flyers thinking, I want to make this clear. This is my understanding of the flyers front office thinking. - Okay. - I think John Tour de Rella is like full fan WIP caller type where he's just like, no, show me the shiny new toy. And show me the shiny new toy right now. I think John Tour de Rella, assuming, and this is, I'll get into this in a minute, assuming Luchenko continues to look this good. John Tour de Rella is going to go in a Danny Breyer operators office at the end of Canvas say, I want this guy on my team. - John, my boy. - But what I will say about Danny and the rest of the front office is that they, from my understanding, are not big fans of the nine-year-old edition. Their view is that, well, there might be some benefit to getting a taste and seeing what it's like in the NHL, the NHL pace, they think it messes up that guy's entire year. Because they think that, it means he's not going through camp with his junior team, is not going through the start of the year, and this is the big thing. They think that it takes the guy, usually at least a couple weeks, if not a month, to kind of get over the disappointment of no longer being in the NHL. They think that it really messes with that transition period. And usually, by November or December, they're fine, they're back to where they are, but they believe that for most prospects, it messes with their season, because then they spend two weeks kind of pouting a little bit of like, "I was just in the NHL, "I'm not going to do this junior thing again." - What if you give him nine, and he looks so good that he's not going back to wealth? - Well, then, that's another thing. - That could happen. - I guess it's possible. He could be a though. - Who was the last guy that the flyers gave nine, and then sent back? - Well, they did, so long. I think Lawton may have been the last. - He seems fine. - But it took him a while, remember? His development got kind of messed up for a while. - Well, they had to send him back down to the NHL to recalibrate. - Yeah, they had to fully-- - Well, they wanted to coach him out of thinking that he was going to be a top six player, I think is what was happening there. - Yeah, I agree. - Which I don't think is going to be the case with Jett. I don't know, it would just-- - I'm just telling, I'm always saying I agree that. I'm just telling you, this is what my understanding of the organization's thing is that I don't think they love the idea of a nine-game audition. - So that begs the question, then, in the triumvirate, how strong is John Tortorello's vote? Like, if he says I want this kid for nine games, are Danny and Jonesy willing to say no, dude, we're not giving it to you? That's going to be interesting. - And the thing that's tough about it, and I mentioned this, I think I mentioned it on the show on Monday, I believe. It's not just that they would be saying no to Torts, they would be saying no to the team, because the thing is, and this is important, it's an important part of the dynamic here, the NHL guys are seeing what we're seeing. - Yeah, of course. - They are seeing that this kid can play, and I guess I'll say it now, the caveat to all of this is, if he goes out there on Thursday and looks like crap, because the competition's better, then it's easy. Then it's like, okay, he's not ready, he looked real good for a rookie camp, and the start of main camp, and now he hit the wall, all good, have your big year in wealth, and come up next year and make the team, that's fine. But, if the rest of camp, he still is performing the way he performed on Sunday. Like, the guys on the NHL team see that, and it's real hard for Danny to go into that room and say, you know he's an NHL player, I know he's an NHL player, but sorry you can't have him. That is tough, not saying they can't do it, they did it with Sean Walker. They basically said, sorry guys, we know you're in a playoff push, but we're taking away one of your best defensemen. - Right. - So they do have-- - They will do it. - They do have the stones to do it, but it is harder, and it's also harder when you have John D'Raterrell saying, no, this guy's my best option at 3C, let me keep it. - And also, it's hard, as a fan, to watch Matt Vaymichkoff, and not just want to push the pedal to the floor-- - You're right. - Immediately. - You're right. - And say, let's F and go. - Yeah. - Especially because a lot of people were not happy with that pick. - The Luchenko pick. - The Luchenko pick. We're not happy about it, and even if you weren't unhappy about it, I do think that most people were like, I don't know, I guess we're gonna see what happens with this one. - Yeah, we'd see. - Yeah, we'll see, it could be, I don't know, but like, I don't think anyone's watching him, and if you had a question about that pick, like, there's no way you have a question about that pick anymore. And now you're like, oh, they might've got, like they might've had a steal at 13 at this point. - People are excited about you. - Exactly. And so it's really hard to think about pulling that back for a whole season, just because of like, prudence and responsibility. Like, that's gross. - Who does that? - No, I don't want any of that in my sports. I want only nonsense. I don't know, I just wanna have maximum fun, and this would be the maximum fun choice, but as you said, I would be surprised if he's kept in the night games. - I came into this camp thinking there was essentially no chance. - Yeah, I mean, so did I. - I now think the door is open, and not just a crack, not fully open. But it's open like a wedge. - Yeah. - You see a little triangle there. - Yeah. - It's like when you don't lock the door in the bathroom and your cat or dog starts to push their nose in and you just like see the nose coming through the crack in the door. And then, yeah, he's just gotta push it in. He's gotta, he's got two games. He's gotta push the door open. - And John Trederella did say, I believe it was this weekend. He said, I'm looking forward to seeing Luchenko in games plural. He's only played one. So the assumption is he's gonna get one of these home games, if not both. - Hopefully both. - And we shall see. We shall see if he can continue to make this decision very tough for the Philadelphia Flyers brain trust. Next up on the forward list. Elliot De Noye, who I believe he is having a significantly better camp than he did last year when he was actively bad. And that was a camp. - That was a camp he came into with a real chance to make the team. And he flocked. He looked terrible and he ended up having a real bad AHL year. I think he has looked fine in this camp. - Yeah. - I cannot go as far as say, I think he has looked great. Maybe not even good. I feel like fine for me is the word I would use for De Noye. - He can still be waived, right? - Yes, he is still waiver accepted. - In that case, he's gone. Like, I just don't, I don't know what the point, there's no one, he has not played well enough to push anybody off that roster that you put up on the screen. And there's no point to him sitting in the press box. - I agree with that. - So you might as well like think to yourself, okay, he's taken a little bit of a step, looks better than last year. - Progress, progress in the right direction. Let's send him back to Allentown. Hopefully he has a monster season. And if we need a call up, he should be one of the first guys. And that's a good thing to have. - I am still a De Noye believer. I still want him to be a thing. I don't know what that thing is, and I don't know if he'll ever be it. But I do think that he has done well enough, unlike Atard. Like with Atard, I'm like, it's written off. - Like I'm done with you. - Yeah, this guy has done well enough that I think he still deserves to be in the conversation. And I think that he still deserves to have a place high enough on the depth chart that we're still talking about. - Okay. - But he needs to go to the AHL because he needs to play. Like he can't sit. - Yeah. - I think what's interesting about what they've done to De Noye this camp is that it seems like they are playing him more in the role that I think he's gonna play if he does make it to the NHL. Like they used him at center a lot in his first two pro years. Basically from the jump at this camp, he's been at wing. And I think that is an acknowledgement that he's probably a wing at the NHL level. Last night, he was on a line, he was on a fourth line. He was on a line with Goce and Deloria. And while he didn't produce much offensively, one thing I liked about De Noye in last night's game was that this is coming after Thursday, the bag skate, Friday, Saturday, doing heavy scrimmages. Sunday, Monday, he was skating, or Sunday he was skating because he wasn't in the game group. That team on Monday was tired. They were clearly fatigued because they've gone through the tour tail camp. He was a guy who I thought had jumped pretty much all game. He was four check and he was skating well, he was active, he was doing things. And I liked that. I liked the fact that he still had energy that tells me that he's in good shape. And that tells me that he has the right mentality, this camp as opposed to last camp. I do agree with you though, that I don't see a point of keeping as the 14 forward and he has not played well enough to push out any of the guys on the Ross in the lineup. So in that case, unless you just wanna reward him by taking him along with you on the four game road trip, getting him in a game and sending him back, I don't really see why you would have an opportunity to start the year. - Yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess maybe you could do that. It's always nice to have an extra actually good player when you're on that kind of road trip. I mean, actually good relative to like, you know, Nick DeLorean. But I don't know, it just makes sense to me to send him down to start the year. And he's, you know, one of the first guys that you're calling up when the injuries inevitably happen. - Kelly, it would indeed be nice to have a good extra in your lineup. But you know, it's also really nice to have a really good pharmacy. - Oh, I love a good pharmacy. - Very, very nice to have a good pharmacy. And if you're looking for a pharmacy that provides convenience and reliability, why not choose Rite Aid? With a My Pharmacy account, you can refill your prescription, schedule a vaccine, get personalized care recommendations, sign up for prescription notifications. Now all you need to get started is prescription at Rite Aid. So get started at Rite Aid.com/mypharmacy. Rite Aid will also refill your prescriptions automatically if you enroll in automated courtesy refills. It's free, it's easy, and most prescriptions qualify. So talk with your Rite Aid pharmacist or again, sign up through your My Pharmacy account at Rite Aid.com, restrictions may apply. You also can get all of your prescriptions at the same time with one trip refills. So ask your pharmacist, your Rite Aid pharmacist, of course, to sync your medication so you can pick them up in one visit and you can sync with other family members too. Just ask your local Rite Aid pharmacist to get started. Again, restrictions may apply. And finally, you can manage your prescriptions with the Rite Aid mobile app, which you can download from the Apple App Store or Google Play. So transfer your prescriptions to Rite Aid today, just go to Rite Aid.com/transfer. Rite Aid's caring pharmacists are always ready to answer your questions and help you stay healthy. So get your prescriptions along with anything at Rite Aid you may need, including over-the-counter medicines, household products, cosmetics, and more. Just ask your pharmacy team for details, restrictions, apply. And finally, another one of our great partners here at PHLY, Ace Hardware. Oh, got a leaky pipe at Ace Hardware Home Services. We're around the block with everything you need to fix it, including the person to do the fixing. Maybe have an air conditioning issue. We have maybe a couple more hot days left in the year before we get into full-on chill. We got a person for that too. What if you have a faucet you said you fixed last fall? We got a person for that too, because Ace is not just the health for hardware folks, they're also a helpful home service and repair folks from plumbing to heating and cooling. They have the trusted pros to keep your home humming all year long. Ace Hardware Home Services, they're bringing a helpful home. Helpful you love from the store now to your front door. So visit Ace Hardware Home Services online at www.acehardwarehomeservices.com to get started on your next project, because Kelly, of course, Ace is the place with the helpful hardware folks. That's true. Now let's get back to forwards. We've gotten .L18OIA, we wax poetic about Jet. Now we are on to the third of our four forwards we are discussing, Ola Lixell. Ola, Ola Lixell, he's interesting because I think he's in a different place than denoya. Agreed. For a couple of reasons. Number one, he's older. He's 25 years old. Number two, this is important. He's no longer waver exempt. So you do risk losing him if you send him through wavers. Number three, I don't think he qualifies really as a prospect anymore. So I wouldn't have a problem if they were to take him along on a trip or on the roster as the 14th forward and just let him hang around. I don't think he's had an incredible camp. He scored a goal in Sunday's game, but he was iffy the rest of the game. Monday, he was playing in a back-to-back after the tour teal camp. So just the fact that he didn't collapse on the ice, I consider a win, but I don't think he's been incredible. Kelly, what are your thoughts? So I'm kind of on the same page. My thought is that he's a guy that I don't really mind having parked in the press box. 'Cause like you said, I don't know that there's a lot of development to happen here. I think he's the guy. So perhaps if we're saying that he's cooked, he's all done, we can take him out of the oven, maybe he benefits from practicing with the NHL team, being with Torts, maybe getting a game if someone gets a little bit banged up on one of these games on this road trip. I would be totally fine with that. So that is interesting only because while I'm not like super high on him, and I definitely don't see a situation in which he pushes anybody out of the lineup, I do think that if they want to carry a 14th, he's the perfect candidate for a 14th forward. - I also don't know how much more he has to prove in the AHL. He's already basically, he's established himself. - He is this guy. - He's a point-for-game guy in the AHL. He's a really good AHL forward. - Right. - Can he play in the NHL? He has played in the NHL. He is not stuck. - No. - Is he maybe this year's version of Yegorza Moolah? Where it's like, well, I guess it should have got off the pot time. Like he's got to be in the NHL and let's see what we have. - Yeah, yeah, he could be. I just, how without an injury, how many games is he playing? I don't think there's a-- - Very few. - Very few. - But the thing is, is it's the NHL. There's always entries. - That's true, yeah, yeah. And I feel like if you're going to go the 14th forward, he's the only guy that makes sense to me as a 14th forward for all the reasons you've listed. - Okay. - I don't think there's any reason for him to be in the AHL. I don't think there's any harm in him sitting in the press box for a little while. And maybe he benefits from just being with the NHL team. Like that to me is like textbook. All right, you can sit in the press box and we'll see what happens. But like either way, I don't really care. - He's just not that poor anymore. - He's just like a guy, like he's a guy. He's like really, like the platonic ideal of just a guy. And so if we have him and he gets a game or two, all right, that's fine, he'll probably be fine. If he never plays, all right, that's fine, whatever. I think Lixell has a lot of fans, understandably. And I get, he has a lot of fans from the people that follow the fannoms very closely. Because he pops for the fannoms. And the idea is why don't the fliers ever give him a real shot? - 'Cause it's way tough. - By a real shot, I mean like three weeks of just playing in the top nine and see what he is. - No, but because he's Boyd Kane, there is a difference between being a really, really, really good AHL hockey player and being a good NHL hockey player. Like those things don't necessarily translate one for one. There are a lot of guys that have sick careers in the AHL, long careers, really good careers, lots of points, lots of all star appearances. They're really good AHL hockey players that never have more than a cup of coffee in the NHL 'cause they're just not that next level of good. And I think Lixell might be one of those guys. He's just not, he doesn't have that next level. He's like, "Quadé." He's, that's what he is. - That is the concern. That was my same concern about David Kasha years ago. Lixell has a similar feel, except with a bit more offensive talent. I like Lixell, but I do lean more on your side that he might just be a really good AHL player. But I would be fine if they use him as the 14th player. - Sure, that would be fine. And honestly, if you follow the Fannoms closely and you're a Fannoms fan and you go to games and now in town all the time, I mean, obviously you're gonna like a guy like Lixell. You want good players on your hockey team. That makes a lot of sense. I had a lot of favorite players when the Fannoms were in Philadelphia that were never gonna make the NHL, but they were sick AHL hockey players. That's cool. The Fannoms need to win games too. They need good players too. If Lixell ends up being a career AHL guy, a perennial All-Star for the Fannoms, like there's nothing wrong with that. That's still good, but I don't, I just don't see in him enough of a consistent next level that warrants giving him a permanent spot on the Flyers for any length of time, barring enough injuries that he cracks the line. - And that might be what has to happen. He needs to get some, not, I don't wanna say luck because it's not lucky if guys get hurt, but he needs things to break his way to get an extended look in a scoring role and then he needs to take full advantage of him. He needs to score points, he needs to be impactful and then he can carve out a spot for himself. But until then, I don't think a spot is going to be carved out for him. Closing this out with the other forward who might be, and I don't wanna rip on this guy because he actually looked like a pretty fun player in last night's game, but he's probably like the boring 14 forward. - Tony Wreck. - Danny Breair before Cam specifically mentioned him, Anthony Rashard as a guy who is in the mix for a spot. He played nine games last year for the Boston Bruins. He's played in the NHL before. He's played 24 games total. He's 27 years old. To me, it's the profile of a Quatte guy. - Yeah. - However, it is worth noting that last night he played in a line with Tyson Forrester and Sean Couturier. That tells me he's a guy, they are giving a real look to as potentially this, we're gonna take you on trips and you're gonna be the 14 forward for us kind of guy. - Seems like he's got wheels, huh? - He can skate. He's always been a speedster. - Yeah, so I mean, that's cool. - Yeah, he's another guy that's like a perfect candidate for a 14 forward in that there's nothing left to find out about him. He's 27 years old. This is what he is. - Yeah. - He's obviously, I don't think they brought him here to send him down to the fan. I was like, that doesn't seem like what he's, I mean, I guess he could be, but yeah. - I think they brought him to be, I don't wanna use the words organizational depth because it's more than that. But he's a guy where he's gonna get a look in camp. If he makes a grade, if he doesn't, he goes to the NHL and he's one of our obvious call-up guys. I think that was what he signed to be. - I mean, if I'm choosing between him or Lixell as the 14th forward, I don't know if it's just because Lixell's been here. And so he's like a guy that we've brought along. - We invested in him a bit. - Yeah, like I would kind of rather see him take the opportunity and turn it into something rather than this guy who I don't know who just came from Boston and he's not from here. Like that said, he is, of course, a perfect 14th forward because again, nothing to find out about him, no development to be had. He could just hang out with the NHL team and if they need a warm body on the ice, various. - Yeah. - And if it ends up being him, cool, good for him. - Yeah, so I think these are your four. Then you have Abbles and Eklund, the two guys they signed from the Swedish Hockey League this past summer. I think they've both showed flashes. Some people legitimately liked Eklund's play last night. He didn't pop too much to me, but I did see some scatter voices on Twitter saying they liked him. Sure, Abbles has been playing center. They do need centers, although I don't know where they were playing center. - Not where you were at here. - But maybe he's a call up if a center gets hurt, if they don't want to move Kate's back over to the middle 'cause they could do that too, if like a lot more to get hurt for a month, they could move Kate's back in the middle. Maybe they call up over Drigo and he takes that spot, but I don't get the sense that either of those two are poised to bang the door down. But hey, as 14 forwards, I guess they could be options too. They're both pros, they're both on the older side. Maybe they could. - Am I remembering correctly? Did Abbles play in the rookie game? - I do not believe he did. - I'm mixing them up with somebody else. - I don't believe either of them did not. - Yeah, that makes sense 'cause they're not children. - Rizzo played in the rookie game. - Yeah, yeah, okay. - He's not on this list for a reason. I don't think he's been terribly impressive. - It makes sense to me for those guys to be phantoms. - I would say at least to start, I would agree with you. - Yeah. - So now let's move quickly. We don't have a lot of time left on the show, but let's move quickly to the defense. And I think we can run through the defense pretty quick because while it's possible that they keep an eighth defense spin, it strikes me as less likely that they keep eight versus 14 forwards. And maybe they'll only keep 13 forwards and seven D-men and go with a 22-man roster. You don't have to have a 23-man. But the possibility is open, especially because now Johansson's contract has been perd any brayer. It's been terminated, so they could. They have the cap space without tapping into long-term injury reserve. But before we get into that, let's just take a look at what the defense looks like right now. We got York, Santa, I'm as your projected first pair. You got Nick Sealer, Jamie Drizell as your projected second. You have Jager Zamoula and Rastros Lin as your third. That was your first pair last night. - Charlie, it's a good hockey team. - It's a good hockey team. - It's a bad hockey team. - It's not a bad hockey team. (laughing) - Paper. - A paper. - A paper. - Pretty good. - And then your seven is Eric Johnson, who is the professional best friend. He's the dad, the best friend. He's making a team. These seven, they're all making the team. I guess there is a world where Ristolinan could be traded before camp, and I don't think it's happening. - That feels unlikely, but maybe. - I think that even if they have aims on trading him, teams are going to need to see him stay healthy for a couple months before they make a move. - Like one NHL, like one regular season game. - You want me to play? - Just one single regular season game. - Just one single regular season game. - Yeah. - Mm-hmm. - As for some more, in a world where Mafe Michkov is not on this team, maybe you think, "Ah, maybe I'll drink and push him out." In a world where he is Mafe Michkov's actual best friend. - No. - Yeah, he's playing. He's on this team and he's playing. - He's on this team and he's playing. - He has made himself indispensable. He has earned himself a job for as long as he wants one. Good for you, buddy. It pays to speak Russian. - Yes. - I've been saying that. So now, we have theoretically one available spot. And I think there are four names that maybe could be in the mix here. - Yeah. - I'm removing Ronnie Addert after last night's debacle. - Uh-uh. - I haven't seen much of anything from Hellgate Grands. I don't think he's realistically in the mix. So there's four guys. And I'm gonna read off the names, then we're gonna go through them real quick. We got a meal Andre, we got Adam Jennings, we got Hunter McDonald, and then we have Oliver Bach. - Mm-hmm. - So starting with a meal Andre, Andre is the guy where it seems like out of this group, he's at the top of the chart. He's skating with Eric Johnson, a star camp. He was with Grands and Sunday's preseason game. He played through rookie camp. It does seem like they like him a lot. However, I don't think he's playing well enough to knock, say, Zamoula out of the lineup. - No. - Zamoula actually looked pretty good last night, but preparing with him and Russell looked fine. - Yeah. - And Andre has been uneven, although he was pretty good on Sunday. Wasn't flashy, but was fine. He was good. His underlying numbers were great. That tells me he was making small good plays, but he wasn't jumping off the screen or I was there. So jumping out of my seat to watch him do cool things. He was fine. - Yeah. - And he doesn't make sense for me to keep him as the eight. - No. No, I agree. You think diehards? - Yes, we will thank the diehards. Although I don't really know the wording for that. So I'm going to say thank you for being diehards. It's great. I usually leave this in the middle. Thanks for being a diehard. You should all subscribe to be a diehard. Read my article as I read it. - 100%. They're really good. - Cool. - Worth every penny. - Worth every penny. - Of the $6 per month. - Awesome. Andre, I would say he has to be in the lineup to be on this team. - Yes. - I don't think he is unless they have designs on rotating him and Zamoula. And honestly, I think Zamoula's been better so far. - I think so too. - I think that Andre needed to, as we sail over and over again, beat the door down. - Yeah. - I think he really needed to make it impossible for them to send him down. And he's been fine, but he's not done that. - Here's one thing I do want to point out though. And we are making some sweeping generalizations because it's a show and it's in the here and now. This is how we see these guys. It's worth noting that Bobby Brink didn't start his awesome camp that ended with him earning a job until like the third preseason game. Like it took a bit. And then once he got rolling, he was killing it. - Interesting. - So it is plausible that it's Zamoula Andres in the lineup on Thursday. And he scores two goals and looks awesome. There is still the possibility that he or someone else could go on a late camp surge like Brink did. - That's true. - So we can't rule that possibility now, but I do agree that right now, I don't think Andre has done enough to have the fliers say that like he has to be on this team. - Yeah, but he's, and you make a fair point 'cause he's also not done enough for them to say no, definitely not. - Exactly, he has him over the hattered. - Yeah, he is 100% on the bubble. - So he's still in the mix? - Could be. - Still in the mix. Another guy who's in the mix, I do believe, is Adam Ginning. - Another guy, I'm tired. - They like Adam Ginning. I think it's interesting though with Adam Ginning. - Then. - Ronnie Adder was a Chuck Fletcher Brett Flair draft pick. - Right. - He was taken in their first draft in 2019, whereas Adam Ginning was a Ron Hexall draft pick. He was taken in the final hexi draft. - What was that, 17 years ago? Like enough already with Adam Ginning. - 2018, that was the Joel Farraby draft. - Why are we still on this guy? - Joel Farraby, J.O. Brian draft. Don't forget about Jack. - Oh God. - Point me, point me, tell me why we're still talking about. - They like Adam Ginning. - What do they like about him? - They like the physicality, they like the defensive acumen, and they think he could be a decent HR. They liked what they saw from him in March of last year when he came up and all the injuries. They think he looked fine. And I think he's still in the mix. I think he's a long shot, but I think he's still in the mix. I just think it's interesting that he has seemingly jumped Adderd in the organization's estimation, despite the fact that they drafted Adderd and they didn't draft Ginning. I think that speaks to how far Adderd has fallen in their estimation. - Yeah. - You know what I mean? - Yeah, Adam Ginning sounds like a good piece for a trade package. I just don't think anybody wants him. - Of course not. That was what I'm saying. (laughing) - You're making my point for me. That we cares about Adam Ginning. - Yeah, he's the new Robert Hay. - Exactly. - Hay in a third. - Exactly, yeah. - Yeah, Adam Ginning in a third for every trade. - For everyone, for church ever's egres. - Yeah, exactly. - Yeah, Adderd, get it done. - Conrad, David. - So there's Adam Ginning. I don't sense a lot of buzz around him right now, but I do think he is still theoretically in the mix. I don't think they would keep him as the eight just to bring him on a trip. - Right. - I think they feel he could use more development. - Sure, but he's not young, he was drafted in 2018. So maybe they say, sure, you're all you're gonna be. You're an eight. Next guy, who is definitely not someone who they think is not developing, but they love him. - This is an interesting-- - Hunter McDonald. - So I gotta tell you, I, as we've said on this show a hundred times, I couldn't understand why Hunter McDonald was being made a thing in my life. I didn't understand why I was hearing about him so much. I didn't understand why I had to think about him or what. I went to that game and now in town with you guys. I thought he looked great. Okay, it was a rookie game against a bunch of rookies. However, I was like, oh, there's something there. - There's something there. - There's the same thing I said after development camp. - Also, I expected him to be like a monster physically. He just looks like a normal hockey player to me. Like he doesn't look-- - Really, I think he looks big. - Does he look big? - You saw him closer than I did. - Maybe it's just because all those Rangers kids were so-- - They are very big team. - They're freakishly large kids. - So maybe-- - What a 6-6, 6-6, 6-7 guys. - But I think I remember him being on the ice with all of her bonk enough and thinking to myself, they look like they're the same size. And I thought that Hunter McDonald was supposed to be an enormous beast of being-- - He is larger than all of her bonk. - I guess that maybe just like visually, it might've just been because of the Rangers kids being freaks. But I walked away from that game thinking like, you know what, all right, I kind of get it. - And get behind this. - I could see something with this kid that said, I don't know who on that 6-man roster, he pushes off. - Well, there's one obvious guy I think he is designated to replace at some point. - Yeah, but that guy's still here. That is one rest for Selina. - He is a guy. Despite the fact that I do think that if they are as high on him as they seem to be, it would probably make sense for him to be getting regular time in the AHL. That said, I could see him being a rotation with Zamoula. - Okay. - Just because they're so high on him, I think he's looked pretty good in this camp. Like I don't recall any moments of him being an abject disaster. He's actually for the most part looked better than I expected him to look. So I could see them rotating. I just don't know, with Igor Zamoula being the professional best friend. Like do they want to rotate out Igor Zamoula? - I don't think it would be the end of the world. - Yeah, all right. - And they do really like Hunter McDonald. - Yes, obviously. - It's abundantly clear. - We've been hearing about him for a while. - Yes. - I think what I've been intrigued with Hunter McDonald is that I came into main camp especially, and even rookie camp, the second rookie game especially. I was expecting a guy who was essentially perfect defensively, that he was just wiping out guys, great rush defense, physical, monster in front of the crease, everything like that. And he's made more defensive mistakes than I want to say. - That's fair. - But on the flip side of that, I expected essentially nothing of him with the puck, and he's been significantly better than I expected in doing things with the puck. He's carried the puck up ice a few times on rushes. He's made mostly good passes. So I'm wondering if this is like, this is just fluke. Maybe he's making some mistakes offensively 'cause it's his first NHL camp and actually he is this defensive stud. Or maybe there's a little bit more to Hunter where he's maybe not the defensive dominator they think he is, but he might have more to him. He might contain multitudes potentially. - I wouldn't hate that. I mean-- - He's intriguing. He at this point, I at least am now on board with the idea that he could be a thing. - The idea of Hunter McDonald. - Before when it was just like, all right, he's big. Like before it was just like, oh God, Keith Jones just wants another large defenseman. That's all this is. That's why we're talking about him. But he actually kinda looks, you know, not bad. - Not bad. - So if they are obsessed with him and he is a guy that they want to give a little bit of time by rotating in, I would be okay with it. That said, if they really want him to be a fixture in the NHL, he probably should go play with the fan. I think his development would benefit more from him spending two months in the NHL, at least. - Can I just say-- - And then going from there. - As an aside, I would feel a lot better about all of this if we had a good coach in the NHL. - Oh. - I just don't-- - Yeah, you don't have any faith in laughing. - No, I worry about like, like how much development are we getting out of these kids playing for Ian LaPerrier? I know he's really nice and everybody likes him and all that kind of stuff. But like, like for example, if Brad Shaw was the fan, I was a games coach and we were sending guys down there to develop, I'd feel very good about the idea that they're gonna go down there and they're gonna learn some good habits and they're gonna come back better players than we sent them. I don't have that kind of confidence with Ian LaPerrier's fans. - All I can say is the fliers too. - I know they love him, I know. - I think they, I suspect that if you hook them up to lie detectors, they would probably acknowledge that they could do better in terms of like an exes and o's winning games, fanms coach, but I think they honestly do believe that Lappy is a good developer of talent. They believe that. - Well, who am I to tell them they're wrong? - I'm just saying. - I just talk about it. - And then real quick, before we go. - Yeah. - Oliver Bong, I don't-- - It's not time. - I don't see it being his time. - No. - He has not done what Luchenko has done in-- - Exactly. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I would have loved for that not to be the case, like especially with the monster year that he had in London, it would have been really cool for him to come in here and do like Luchenko's done and been like, now I'm ready, but he absolutely has not. So-- - I don't think he's been bad. - No, no, no, he just hasn't popped. - Yeah, he's not, I have not once watched him and been like, yes, that's an NHL hockey player. Like he needs some time to cook. And given the potential that he has, I would rather they cook him than rush him in any way, shape, or form, so. - I think we're on the same page there. Before we leave, he's got to go through the super chat. Gary B is first up. Ha, Kelly, we are wearing the same Pearl Jam shirt today. Look at that. - Hey. - Atter does not waver exempt correctly, correct. He's no longer waver exempt. If they send him down to the minors, which at this point seems close to a formality, he would theoretically be available to be claimed, but I do not think anyone is going to. - He's exempt in the sense that no one's going to claim. - I can't rule out the possibility. Again, he is a big right-handed shooting defenseman who can skate in high-speed shot. - It's possible someone could be intrigued. - Maybe. - This last performance didn't help his case. Next up, hat trick, pat trick. What did you think of McEnyemi? I'd heard very little of him before this game. I was surprised to see he looked pretty good. Puck handling aside. We talked about it a little bit earlier. I think we're on the same page. And he also benefited from the direct comparison to Cal Peterson, who looked terrible. - In a 30-minute split between the two of them, all of a sudden now, he's the third goalie in the defense error in the death chart. So, good for you. - There we go. Nicholas Hankins is up next. Is Ronny, I don't have trade value. No, I mean, if we think he's going to clear waivers without being played, then he has no trade-up. - I'll package him with a third. - Never enough. - You never know. - You never know. - You never know, but no, Nick. I like your thinking, but I cannot imagine he has actual trade. The most you get for him would be something like the trade they made with Wade Allison, where like you're trading Wade Allison for another Wade Allison. - Yeah, yeah. - That's about it. Next up, Adam S. If Jet keeps playing well, he deserves to make the team, looks better than Kootz, Lawton, and Poehling as of now. Okay, look. - Let's not get wild. - Let's not get carried away here. Yes, Kootz, Lawton, and Poehling, I wouldn't say any of them looked amazing last night. They're also veterans who are using this. - I was gonna say they're not trying. - They're using this camp as a way to play themselves back into rhythm, back into feeling like they're playing in NHL levels. Jet is trying to impress. - Exactly. - They are trying to prepare for the NHL season. - So let's not try to say that Jet is actually the best center on this roster right now. - No. - Probably not. - Let's just not go too far, Adam. But respect you wanting to keep Jet as long as he's playing well. Next up, Gary B. Charlie, did they hire Simmer as a Canadian scout? They did hire him. It was not as a scout. He's gonna kind of be an ambassador through some off-ice stuff. I'm sure he'll provide some input. - Professional best friend to us, the fans. - Yeah. - Which to be fair, perfect job for Wayne Simmons. We all love him. - Love the fact that they brought him officially back in the fall. - Me too. I love it. - I mean, I wish he would have been able to retire a flyer, but now he's very much a flyer for life. - Exactly. - If anybody deserves it, it's that guy. - 100% - Late is, you know, body on the ice. - We love him. - We'll love him. - Next up, Adam S. Also, there's no evidence that letting guys develop down in juniors makes them better. I don't think, so Adam, I don't think it's that there is a hard, fast rule. Like it's, and I don't think there's ever gonna be a hard, fast rule. So if you're trying to do analyses about like, "Well, we looked at 500 players and this is the most likely outcome." That's not, this never gonna be the way development works. Development is gonna be different for every guy. Some guys might benefit from going down to juniors and developing their offensive game more. Some guys might benefit from getting thrown to the wolves right away. It depends on the person. It depends on so many things about them. And that's why I think every developmental plan needs to be specialized to the player. So I don't like the idea of like, there's no evidence. There's never gonna be any evidence because you're never gonna be able to do a kind of analysis of like a one-size-fits-all developmental approach. - Also, you're only sending him back to Guelph because you have to. You can't send him to the AHL. - Well, I'm guessing Adam is arguing that they should keep him in the NHL all seasonally. - I mean, if they keep him for nine games and he looks like he belongs, then yeah, sure. But I think that you really need to see those nine games before, like even me, I need to see those nine games before I'm deciding that he stays forever. But I don't think that you're sending him back to Guelph because you think that's the best for his development. I'm sure that if they could send him to Allentown, that's where they would send him. That would be better. It's a step-up competition-wise, but they can't because of that dumb role. - Yeah, not allowed, unfortunately. And the final question, Linden 49, my hat is off for Torts for what he did for Guy Guidro. We talked about this yesterday. I did my post-practice in his video, mostly on it. For those who don't know, Torts gave Guy Guidro the father of Johnny and Matt Guidro a call a few weeks ago. He asked if he wanted to participate in practice as a coach. So yesterday he was on the ice with the Flyers. It was a really nice thing for Torts and the entire Flyers organization to do. So I feel like Torts, especially in maybe the online corner of the Flyers fan base is a bit of a divisive figure. I think we all can agree though. - He's a sweet man. - That was an objectively really nice thing that he did. - And they didn't cry, actually. - Or for Gikutra. - I cried when I saw it. It was, it's easy to forget because he makes it easy that John Tortorella is actually a very sweet man. And I think at his core, he's a very sweet man. And this was just one of those things. - I think it's the distinction between, like they both treat players very harshly, but it's the distinction between John Tortorella and Mike Babcock. Where John Tortorella, yes, he can be an asshole, but it's coming from a place of caring. Whereas Mike Babcock, when he's a jerk, it's coming from a place of just being a jerk. - Right, yes. - I think that's the distinction. - And Linden's right. It was a very nice thing to do. And I do hope that obviously, it's not going to solve any of the problems that Gikutra has. But I'm hoping that it was a, I hope that it was and that it continues to be. I hope that he continues to hang around, that it's a nice distraction for him. And it's an opportunity to feel a little something familiar. - Maybe for an hour, he was able to just like smile a little bit and not be forced. - Exactly. - And that's a great thing. - And that's nice, yes. - Well, that, Kelly, is all the time we have today for you on PHL-Y flyers. Thanks so much for watching. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe to our YouTube channel. Follow us on whatever podcast listening channel, Apple, Spotify, all of them. - Yeah. - Please do that if you don't already do that. We will be back tomorrow at 4 p.m. Kelly and I again for part two of the Charlie Kelly show experience to break down what will probably be the official announcement of content. We'll see where the roster stands. - All right. - Thanks again. See you tomorrow. (upbeat music) - Y'all sitting like the mayor. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) You [BLANK_AUDIO]
Charlie and Kelly break all the key players down, from Jett Luchanko to Ronnie Attard to Emil Andrae.
