(upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hey everybody, how you doing? - Well, that's good. Welcome to PHL Why Flyers. My name is Bill Matts. I'm your director of fun games on this beautiful, no longer F around Friday. It's back to work Friday. - Back to business. - Back to business Friday. What a time that summer was. Joining me today is not only Philadelphia's number one hockey beat writer. It is Charlie O'Connor. We also have Broad Street Hockey's own Kelly Hinkle, the fly by herself with us, finally. It seems as if it has been weeks. - 100 years, yes. - It's probably been like 10 days. - Probably. - But to use Jamie Driesdale's favorite unit of measurement of time. - It's been a minute. - Yeah. - Okay. - It's been a minute. - I feel like I heard him on a Flyers Daily today and he might've said that a few times. - He likes that one. - Yeah. - I think it's a very California thing. - I was gonna say, it seems like a very California surfer dude kind of way to perceive time. - Yeah, team. - Just a whole bunch of freaking stoners. - I like it. - How is it down there, Chuck? Day two. - Day two. - Is it meeting up with your old friends? You know, recess, you're catching up. - Sure. - How's it called, friends? - Do you want? (laughing) - How's it been since now, falling back into your old routines? - It's been good. It's gonna be nice when camp is done. Camp days are just a grind, especially now with the show, because they start earlier than practices do. They last longer than practices do. Now I'm doing the post practice videos and now we have the show. So I will very much be looking forward to when days don't begin at 8 a.m. and end at like 10 p.m. But for now, you know what, the players are dealing with the grind of the early portion of Torda Relic camp. So I can deal with the grind of work in 12 plus hour days for a week or two. - And to watch those post practice videos, you don't have to do much. They're right here on this YouTube page. Look around for them, you'll find them. It's very simple. And Charlie's putting a decent amount of effort into them as is Brenna. They're very good. So check it out. Hinkle. - Yep. - How's the world been out there? Like what's it like? Where were you last? I think Boston was your last stop? - Yeah, it was in Boston earlier. - Fenway? - Fenway, yeah. It will show us a Fenway. - Pearl Jam, real fun? - Yes, very good. - Okay. - The last two shows of the tour. Good times. - All right. Let's get down to business than the Huns. (laughing) I don't want to have to. You said, yeah. - Let's get down to what we came here to do today. A lot of talk we did yesterday about who was out there, how they did in the death skate, all that stuff. We did not do the Tuamala and Barkey update. They both still have not taken the ice. - They have yet to take the ice this week. Well, Barkey has yet to take the ice. Period. - Yeah. - Because he showed up still recovering from mono. He's doing better, but they're being very, very careful. The last we heard about him was Brent Flair on Sunday when we interviewed him said that there was a chance he could be cleared for contact by the end of this week. So it is still Friday. Theoretically, the end of this week still counts tomorrow. He could be back on the ice tomorrow, but knowing the way I know the fliers, they're going to be extra cautious with Barkey. So I would be surprised, honestly, if he ends up on the ice. I don't even think he was included on the Camp roster. If you look at that sheet. So my guess is they're just going to play it real safe. They'll send them back all good. To Amal, those are a little more interesting because To Amal obviously was part of rookie camp. He played in both rookie games, actually scored the game when you go overtime in Saturday's rookie game. We interviewed him after Saturday's rookie game seemed no worse for the wear. And then on Sunday, he wasn't on the ice. When we got back to Voorhees, Brent Flair said day to day, nothing serious. Well, that was Sunday. He's not been on the ice. He has now missed the first two days of main camp. I do not think it is a serious, serious injury, but clearly serious enough for day to day to become one week. Holding out to force his way onto the NHL roster, right? Probably. Yeah. Or he's just going to go to Russia. That's what guys do. Yeah. This is from Finland, though. Yeah, but that's what guys do when they don't want to play for Danny Brier's fliers. Cola Sava's Bello Russian, as people keep reminding us. It's true, as if they're different places. These are different places. I am. It's like Finland and Sweden. We're very different. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Sure. It's like North Dakota and Canada are different places. If you were going to say North Dakota and South Dakota, then I would say, OK. The lines don't exist, Charlie. I am uncertain that those are actually not just one state, with a haphazard line drawn across the middle. But Finland and Sweden are pretty, pretty dissimilar. In fact, they have a very strong hockey rivalry. Yeah, they have a strong, sort of American, Canada. You can't tell the difference between half of us. Oh, I think you can. Come on. They're a lot nicer. They can go to the doctor. It takes a lot of stress off. If you're supposed to a Leafs fan. Never talked to an Eagles fan. It's the same thing. That's true. They are the same thing. Maybe it was fans 100% or not. Honestly, neither or have fans. Yeah. You can't understand them anywhere. Yeah, I can't talk to them all home. It's still on Friday, guys. Yeah, not much. So that's that. Kelly, we did a lot of tackling some of the more silly, I thought. Like, social media controversies yesterday. Like, is the skate actually bad? OK, I'm glad you're letting me weigh in on this. I listened to the show. And also, I'm terminally online. So I did see all of these things. I don't understand why people think it's bad. OK. Or in any way damaging. Like, OK, I don't understand why people think it's damage. I'm not a professional athlete. Surprised to all of you, I'm sure. You do a lot of, like, stuff that. The hardest thing that I have done in my life, physically and mentally, like a physical-- the stupid Broad Street run. I hate every second of it. I hate every inch of the 10 miles. The entire time I'm saying to myself, why are you doing this? You don't have to do this. No one's making you do this. I hate it. At the end, nothing feels better. And I can guarantee you that every one of these guys, when they're laying on the ice, half dead, nothing feels better to them than getting through that death skate. I think mentally it's actually good. Like, doing hard things is good for you, mentally. Like, a thing that you don't want to do, that you know is going to be difficult. And you know it's going to, like, hurt you physically. But you mentally push your way through it. The feeling at the end of that is quite good. And so, like, in a way, I kind of get why Tortorilla does it. Like, I do think that-- Or I totally get why he does it, yeah. It makes you feel better at the end of it. So, like-- You know what would feel even better? Not doing it at all. No, I don't-- I just disagree. Like, that's just like-- I'm not professional athletics. I do a lot of-- like, I don't know. I feel like when I do something hard that I don't want to do and I accomplish it, that feeling at the end is very good. Like, more people should try to do things they don't think that they can do. It allows me to justify so much of my then unhealthy behavior. Right. I can double down on this. I'm drinking two thirties this weekend. Exactly. Like, ran one time. I don't think that's the right method. Yeah, I probably am not, Charlie. Like, Jimmy dries down the way of treating himself to, like, some McDonald's or something after yesterday's session. Because he felt really good at how it happened. I just thought the idea that, like, well, this is just another example of why you don't want to play for Tour de Rela. I think there are players who probably have absolutely justifiable reasons for being like, yeah, I just don't think I need to play for John Tour de Rela. And I agree with you. I think there's some real reasons for that. A hard first day of training camp tells me I don't want you. When you said that yesterday, I was in my car listening and I was like, yes. I mean, I obviously don't agree with that, because I made the other argument yesterday. I think that all of it does-- you can't separate one element of the Tour de Rela experience. It all comes together from afar, people looking at what it means to play for John Tour de Rela and saying, yeah, I don't know if I want to deal with that whole thing. And this is part of that whole thing. I mean, the whole package I could see an argument for. But if it's just, like, I don't want to do a bag skate one time of the season, like-- That's wimpy, to be sure. No way, exactly. But yeah. And I was very happy, which we'll get into in a little bit your training camp hard. And you have just been pumping out the content to the point I like go back to alphly.com to read the thing I was reading last. And it's behind something. Yeah, there's another thing going on. What is he doing? I can't keep up with this content, isn't it? Slow down. But yeah, so alphly.com, read all this. But I was very happy to read in your article the training camp point. Jared Bennar does it, too. Yes. Well, did. Did it? Did it? I want to know if he-- If he went back to doing it. The way that Eric Johnson-- Did he see him VR guys now? The way that Eric Johnson explained it. Eric Johnson obviously wasn't on their team last year. Because he signed elsewhere. But the way Eric Johnson explained it was they won the Stanley Cup, finally. And then he gave them a pass that next year. Yes. Because they finished the season of the end of June. It finished in, like, July. Right, the end of the season of the end of June. And you were like, OK, you won the cup. You don't have to do the crazy, hard skates. And Eric Johnson then basically presented it as I don't think they do it anymore. I think he may have retired it. Well, I mean-- They did it the year they won the Stanley Cup. I was going to say, I got them someplace. And like you said yesterday, you know Nate McKinnon loves it. You know Nate McKinnon's probably every day of the year. Yes, he's probably doing it on his own because the coach discontinued it. Probably. But it was funny to note, though. Jared Bennar was in the Columbus system. And probably learned it from John Tortorello. That's what we're saying today. It's clearly towards this thing. And I wonder, because we talked that it used to be the six reps. And now it's the eight. Bennar did the six. And I wonder if Tortorello was like, mine's going to be the hardest game ever. My camp is the hardest. It's not as hard as Jared Bennar's camp. It's the harder camp. Two more reps now. Could be part of it. Because I hate odd numbers. Could be part of it. No, I'm going to do seven. That would be silly. We're doing eight. The whole thing I just thought was kind of like, yes, I do. I like John Tortorello because one, the content is endless. He helps pay my bills. I very much appreciate John Tortorello, the content monster that he is. And I do think there is value to having him at the helm right now. I probably agree that there's reasons not to want to play for him. If that's one of them, you're not tough. I would agree with you that if a player is making a free agent decision and the final thing that chooses them to not sign with the flyers is I don't want to do the bag escape. I agree. That is stupid. And they are not tough enough. However, I do think that the overarching Tortorello experience, of which this is a not insignificant part, I do think may play a role in some free agents or some people that you could trade for, but then we'd have to sign an extension, being like, yeah, I'd rather not have that in my life. No, when everyone is counting down, oh, maybe we can bring back Drew. And if Drew's sitting there, he's like my age. He's like, dog, I'm about to be like 37 years old. Because he'll be next year. I don't need this in my life. I very much understand being at the end of your career and being like, I'm not playing for John Torrella. Like, that just seems like something I don't need to do. Also, I don't know. Maybe it's a bucket list item. Like, you played for the literally insane guy. Well, there was. Like, he is the most famous coach of this era. Now, also, the athletic actually did their player poll. They do it every year. This year, they did it mostly in, I believe, it was summer events that, you know, so mostly star players were at these events. So they used to do, when I was the athletic, when the athletic cover pretty much every single team in the league, we interviewed almost entirely. Like, I remember I had to get answers from, I think, at least like 10 players in the team. And it was very strongly hinted that if you didn't get at least 14 or 15, that you would be thought that you're not doing your job well enough. So we got a very large sample of league. This one was much smaller. I think this one ended up being about 30 or 35 players. But they asked the players, who have you not had as your coach that you would want as your coach? And unsurprisingly, John Turderella did not make like the pie chart, but he did get one vote. And the vote was from, I think it was in the article, it was from a Western Conference defenseman. And basically what that defensive said was, I know this sounds crazy, but I think I might want to play for charts. - I could see, say on the car. - I could see wanting to be like, you know what, this is a bucket list. - Listen, some people thrive under intense pressure and kind of like would see it as a badge of honor to be able to get through it. - Some of the players in this league are mentally ill. Like Sidney Crosby, who was born on 8, 7, 87. So he'll only make 8.7 million. Like Nathan McKinnon, who sees a teammate, like sees Ryan Johansson eating Skittles. He's like, you're off the team. You know? - Oh my god. - There are some lunatics. - There are some lunatics in this league. - Yes, I want to read this quote. I remember it was at the very, very end of the article. And it was very funny. We were talking about it in the media room yesterday. Where was it? - Kelly, while he finds this, what is the Zumoula quote that you're saying you were weeping reading? - That he said that he cried when he first got here 'cause he had nobody to talk to 'cause there were no Russians on his team. - Oh, okay, okay. I do, that took on a life of its own. Jordan. - Not here. - I love Jordan, but he should have specified. He was talking about when he came over to play in June. - Yeah, when he first came over. - 'Cause some people took that to mean, "Oh, see, look, the flyers don't take care of the flyers." No, that was because before he turned pro, he came over to play in Calgary for the hit men in a WHO. That was when he really struck. There wasn't any crapping on the fly. - Oh, no, no, I didn't think it was. It just made me sad because it seems like a sweet boy. - I think it really captures the idea 'cause we can say it. Oh, it's gotta be hard. I have no idea. Like, I don't know what it is. - I've lived within a few miles of Philly, my entire freaking life, same. People, my college roommate was from Pittsburgh and I couldn't understand him. So here was the quote. - Okay. - The quote was, "This is great. "This may sound weird, but Torts," said one Western Conference of Fencement, "I'd like to try Torts." So it's not even that I want to play for forever. I just want to-- - Yeah, I just want to-- - It's like you know, so it's either an older guy who's like, "I think we jive," 'cause like, "Yeah, man, I'm blocking all these shots in." Anyway, I want to be like the captain of the team because he'll like me. Or it's a-- - A sicko. - Younger, troll, Travis Connectney kind of guy who's like, "Oh, he's the lunist? "I'm gonna mess with him." - Yeah, I-- (laughing) - But you want me to fight yet under his skin. - It's one of those two things. - I'm gonna be the guy that breaks Torts, yeah. - Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're gonna wait for that. Let's get to a day two notes of camp and these are literally just tweets I pulled off at Charlie's timeline and I found it interesting and then if there's other stuff Charlie wants to talk about, he's free to jump in whenever. The first thing, because a not insignificant amount of time on this show has been dedicated to dumping all over the power play. - Justifiable. - And yeah, I mean, we could just call it inept every single day for an hour and 12% it's justified. You tweet today, "Torts confirms that the power play "was a focus this summer," said that all of Danny Heatley, Patrick Sharp, and John Leclerc, among others were involved, along with Danny Breair and of course power play coach, Rocky Thompson, Torts says they're going to have those meetings monthly. - That makes me think of that meme where it's the dragon cartoons and there's like some very serious ones and one huge one. - And then he thinks they're side eyeing the drunk looking dragon, yeah. - With that group of people, I feel strongly we don't need Rocky Thompson. Like, what's his role there? - What would you say you do here? - Yeah, exactly. - Well, like, you just look at some of these guys and like, Patrick Sharp wasn't like a star player but he was a very good player, very, very good team for a very, very long time. - Let's go with some gold. - Danny Heatley, a premier goal scorer. - Score team. - John Leclerc, a premier goal scorer. Danny Breair, I mean, talk about a power play guy. - Score some gold. - Like, they should be able to talk to Rocky Thompson and be like, I heard him referenced on, I can't even remember what show recently but it was a hockey podcast and it was like someone saying, oh yeah, it was like my first professional fight was against Rocky Thompson and he kicked my ass and he's like, oh, so that's our power play. - Power play coach. - Yeah, like from the fliers hockey. - You're just looking at these guys and like, I don't know, they should be able to figure something out. - I mean, John Leclerc. - A group of guys who made a career on the power play. You should be able to figure something out here. - I would think that they would at least be able to make it so the penalty kill does not score more goals than the power play. Which I feel like at a bare minimum, like could we strive for not having that be a close race? - It was a race until like January. - Real close. - It was the real. - The season for the power play really take the lead. - It was a real race. - So basically what Torrell has said about this, which I thought was interesting because the first response I was getting for people on Twitter from this tweet was, just monthly, shouldn't they be in there every day because Rocky clearly needs to help. - Well, here's the thing. Number one, all of those guys have other jobs. - Yeah. - Developmental jobs mostly, but other jobs, other things to do. Danny Breyer literally runs the hype. - I swear sometimes I feel like people have never had a job before. Like that make these kinds of complaints. - True. - Anyway. - Yeah, that's number one. Number two is the fact that, and I thought this was very interesting, it does seem like their role in all of this is gonna be more bigger picture things. Because what Torrell has said, which I thought was interesting, was that one of the main things this group talked about was less about X's and O's and specific plays. It was more about, let's have a conversation about each guy and what his best spot on a power play would be. - Okay. - So it seems like these guys, they're bringing in these call it in house consultants, maybe is a good way to put it, in house consultants. It seems like they're more being asked philosophical questions about, okay, Travis Connect is gonna be on the power play. Where would he be best served stationary? - Below the goal line. - Possibly. - That's the answer. - Behind the net, boys. - Thank you again. - If you guys had your choice, you would have four guys lined up behind the net and then one's offensive up at the point. - Let's not be crazy. Maybe two guys below the goal line. - Why wouldn't I want everyone close to the net? - Yeah. - Well, the goalie can't see that. (laughs) It's a try the flying V, but from the offensive. - So from the offensive side. - Yeah, exactly. - But it does seem like there are gonna be more focus on the bigger picture, which is why, even if this was their only job, this is why they're not gonna be in daily meetings with Rocky. - Hey, look, in the end, what this all boils down to is, they trust Rocky Thompson. They believe he is a smart guy who they would be, they would be making a mistake to fire him because they believe he is good at what he does and that he is ultimately gonna figure this out and be good, whether he's gonna be good at the power play or he's gonna have some sort of role, important role on a successful coaching step, they believe in him. We will see if they're right, but that is why he is still here. He is still here because they believe in him. - Why? - I will say, like, while the power play has been abysmal, it was also terrible the year before he got you. But while it has been abysmal under him, the foreword who he, you know, is in charge of, many of them have been really, really good, just not on the power play, if that's one aspect of his job and he's good at the other three. - Fair. - Well, all right, now that we have Mitch Knove and maybe Dry's Dale, maybe York steps up, like, okay, let's see what he can do. I'm willing to go, okay, maybe the players just weren't good enough last year. I, like, also 12% is way too, like, that's just so bad. - Yeah. - Like, it's so far below acceptable. - Yeah, I've made the point of the show so many times that I even saw someone in the comment section saying, like, there's no way the flyers had less offensive talent than the sharks. - Considerably less than the sharks. - Yeah, yeah. - The sharks are around 20%. - Yes, the flyers should be around 20%. - It's not even-- - You look into 17, 18. - That's what I'm saying. It's like, it's almost like whatever strategy he's employing is, like, making them worse at times. - Yeah, it's not even helping, it's actually downgrading. - Right, it's not even, like, they're just not getting lucky or, like, the players just aren't good enough. It's almost like whatever he's telling them to do is making them actively worse at playing hockey. - He's just-- - Which boggles the mind. - Maybe he's a sobri-placement level power play coach. At least at this point, it is power play coaching career. - Yeah. - But we have been impressed for the most part by, like, the strides this entire group of forwards has made in the last two years. - I agree, and that's why at the end of last season, my argument was I don't want Rocky Thompson fired. I just don't want him coaching the power play anymore. Hire some other guy, you're the flyers. You have all the money in the world. You got calm guys behind you. You can hire as many coaches as you want. Keep him coaching the forwards and just hire somebody to be I in the sky power play guy. And instead, they think he's gonna figure it out at some point, I guess we'll see. - There should be more coaches in the sky in hockey. I feel. - I do feel as if-- - There should be more up there, like looking at stuff. - The ice level thing, you can't. And like I just heard today, like I'm talking about Brad Shaw and how he's a genius and the things that he can see right there on the bench and tell you immediately are freaking incredible. But for the most part, sit ice level and sit up high and tell me where you can see better. And I realized they then watch film and break that down to confirm or deny their biases or whatever, but like I do think it's an underutilized thing when you look at like an NFL coaching booth and how many dudes are up there. - I'm shocked, but yeah. - I know, it does seem like an underutilized thing, but I am willing to somewhat, not completely clean 'cause again, the power play has been so far below even bad, that-- - That's a really good way to put it. - You can't wipe the slate completely clean, but I'm willing to give this a few months of like, all right, you have Miskavadry's Dale now. See what you can do. - Yeah, if you can't, yeah. - And now if you can't turn these guys to wild, nowhere near finished products yet, are really talented guys. That's why they're here, they're very talented and the other team, as I stress all the time, has fewer guys and it's five against four or five against three sometimes, which is also their very bad at. Like I'm willing to give them some time now, but then if this isn't markedly improved, you have to figure something else out. - Yeah, this still trashed by like December and they're not considering some kind of change, they're completely out of it. - Especially if the team, which we're gonna get into with Charlie's other article that he wrote, like it feels like days ago now, but it was like two days ago. - Yeah, I was like two days ago. (laughing) Like, especially if the team doesn't lose a ton of ground in terms of how they started last year. - Right. - Like if they're basically what they were, like, oh yeah, they're a try hard competitive team that's winning more games than you think they would and they're gonna be in the playoff race. Like if they're that same team and it's like, oh, they'd be in the playoffs within, even if the power play was just normal bad, they would be in the playoffs. Like then you have to think about doing some literally anything else. 'Cause this is, I know that we're rebuilding and at the end of the day, winning is not the number one thing, but these guys are gonna have to know how to perform on the power play. So boy, just part of their development. - Yeah, I can't be good for development to have the power play be that bad during the formative years of these guys' career. - We can't have Miskov at 24 starting from scratch on the power play. - Yeah, no. - That's not a thing that we should be doing. All right. - Before we get into some of the stuff Charlie has written this week, it feels like we always have this one right after we talk about the power play 'cause I am then fired up. And I have to remind everyone that every now and then you have to choose to chill. - Listen, last night was the perfect night, honestly, between work, social media, the world. It's no wonder we're just constantly worked up. Coors like celebrates rising above and choosing a chill mindset. Why not turn a reindeer barbecue into a karaoke house party or after a tough lost settle scores with an ice cold peace offering, make the choice to choose chill, then reach for a core, then reach for a core's light. It's mountain cold refreshment. And listen, this team, they're gonna be driving us nuts. This power play, chances are on all the post games this year, I'm gonna be freaking out about it. We've been doing this a long time. I know myself. That's why sometimes I just need to chill and there's no better way to celebrate that choice to chill than with an ice cold core's light. So whether you're freaking out about Rocky Thompson or the goalies or who michkov center's gonna be, you need to find the blue mountains in your fridge and enjoy a beer as cold as the Rockies. Because when everything surrounding your favorite hockey team is on fire, sometimes you just gotta chill. 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You should score more than you do at 515, not less, they score less. It's almost impressive. Anyway, this next one, Charlie Tweets. They're doing a lot of line juggling, but they do seem intent on getting Miskov out there a lot with Frost. The other wing on that line has rotated more. Perhaps they want to give that tandem a look, a long early look. - I like that. - I like it too. This is going to be as we talk, we're gonna talk about from your one article, like this is another fact-finding season. It is another, they didn't do much... Except bringing Miskov, which is huge, I know. But other than that, it's basically the exact same group, John Tortorell reiterated that yesterday. - Yes. - It is, for a number of reasons, this is it for Morgan Frost. Like, his contract is up at the end of this year. Yes, he's only in RFA, but what are you gonna commit to him long-term when the coach sits him another 10 games? Like, you can't do that. This now is time for him to prove he can be a consistent point producer in the realm of a very good 2C. And if not, you gotta figure something else out. I like giving him this opportunity. Ultimately, no, I don't want Morgan Frost playing with Matthew Miskov. I want a superstar playing alongside Matthew Miskov. - That would be nice. - Yeah, but for right now, I like this a lot. - I mean, not even just for Frost. If they're gonna be cowards and not give us Jett Luchenko out of the gate. - Ooh, Kelly, help it in hot. - I mean, this, I think, is also the best for Miskov, because we criticize Morgan Frost a lot for sometimes good reason. But he can make some real saucy passes. And he seems to see the ice really well. And so the idea of him having Miskov to pass to, I could be pretty good. So, I mean, who are you gonna put him with Katoriank? - Those are the two options. - Yeah, I don't, it's gonna be family. - I like the, I like the theoretical combination of Katorian, Miskov purely from a hockey IQ standpoint. - I will say that Miskov Frost, at least at first glance, seems more fun in terms of the plausible upside, because Frost is a creative passer. Miskov is a scorer at heart. It could be very fun. He wasn't the only guy on the line. Technically what the line was, was it was, at least what they ran before the scrimmage started. It was, tip it on the left, frost in the middle, Miskov on the right. However, because that group had, I believe it was, 11 forwards, they had to keep them rotated. So, Sawyer Bolton was like the extra guy in that group. So because that, they were rotating the lines, but even as they rotated the lines, you were seeing a lot more, I think you were seeing a lot more of Miskov Frost than you were seeing Miskov tip it. So that tells me that like, look, we know they love Owen tip it, they signed to a big contract, but the duo they're trying to look at here, is Miskov Frost. That is the one that they came into camp, because this is something that, you always hear the first day when they show the line combinations, you will hear the code say, don't read too much into it, these aren't gonna be the lines first game of the year. And that is true. It is 100% true that usually the lines you see that first day camp are not the lines that they use the first game of the season. However, just because they're not the lines, you see the first day camp, the first game of the year, does not mean the first day camp lines are not important, because what they do show is going into camp, what do they spend two months thinking about what they wanted to see? Yeah, who do they like going into camp? Who do they not like as much going into camp? That's why the line combos with our camp are important, because these guys had months to talk about, what do we wanna see our first look at Miskov? Who do we wanna see him with? And they decided the first guy they wanna see him with is Morgan Frost, and that is notable. I get your point about couturier in the hockey IQ, 'cause obviously couturier's hockey IQ is like off the charts. But I worry, like I don't want anything to slow Miskov down at all. And like, listen, I love Sean Couturier, but when he was 22, he wasn't fast. So like, you know. I just, to me, I think they could both, Miskov could benefit playing with both of them. And you probably will. It's just kind of, yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure ways. Like, we talked last week, maybe, about is he gonna be more, especially young, like a scorer or a distributor? And to me, it's, if he's on a line with couturier, he's gonna be finding couturier in the slot a lot. That's gonna be kind of that dynamic, whereas I wanna see the mad Russian do mad Russian stuff and that's working off given goes with Morgan Frost. And ultimately taking the puck to the net himself, like Charlie said, more fun. But I think he could benefit playing either way. The thing I'm more concerned about, though, is the other wing. Like, I think either center is fine. I just don't love Tippet, because I feel like Tippet and Miskov are too similar. I like forester. I don't think they're similar much, but I do think that Tippet needs the puck a lot. He shoots a lot. I don't know if I want them. Yeah, it goes to competing for shots. That said, like, I want Tyson Forster to shoot just as much. So, like, I guess at a certain point, he's gonna have to pass. I mean, I gotta be honest with you. Only one puck. Yeah, we're starting to have a problem with like, oh no, too many of our guys shoot the puck all the time and try to score goals. This is a problem. Like, if that's where we're headed, like, I'm very pleased. No, no, yes, unfortunately, and they still need a sniper. They need Patrick Line any more than anything. Yep. So, I just picture, like, like, the puck comes loose down low, and maybe it's Katore, maybe it's for us, whoever, and all of a sudden, Tippet and Miskov are both at the opposite blue line. It's like, well, now it's 5 on 3. Yeah. He better thread this pass. The reason why I really don't sweat this too much is that-- I'm minor. I know that coach has changed the lines up all the time. Ultimately, Miskov is going to get time with Frost, and he's going to get a lot of time, too, with Katore. And they're going to find out by trial and error which one works better, who he has more chemistry with. And maybe he has equal chemistry, and they just bounce him up and down, depending upon who they want. Miskov to get going on a given week or whatever. So, I don't sweat it too much, but it's still interesting because it's not interesting for me because I think that, well, they're just going to have him stapled to Morgan Frost all year. No coach will do that, unless they are the best duo since Kanye and Forresburg. Then no, they're not going to break him apart, but I don't think that's likely. The reason why it's interesting is because of what it says about Morgan Frost. Still need a canoe. They're giving Morgan Frost the opportunity to play with Miskov, and I think it speaks to their hopes and expectations for Morgan Frost this year. I think it's interesting in that sense. I believe they're doing it. So, all of a sudden, he has like 72 points. And then they're able to trade him. I mean, if that happens, like a problem, yeah, man. It could be worse. This is good stuff. It could be worse. It's like, we finally have a center. No, we don't. We traded them. We got to make room for Kelly Chanko. Now we have friends. This other part, Kelly, like the first thing she says to me when she got here is like, you know how I'm just real tired of talking about? Ronnie adored. Ronnie adored. You might have me talk about it much a lot. She was done. Ronnie adored. Thank you for your service. This is Charlie's tweet. Ronnie adored beginning camp on a pair with Carter Southern, who has no chance of making the team, doesn't exactly speak well for his start of camp standing. We'll see if that's who he's with in the scrimmage in 30 minutes. Was it who he was with in the scrimmage? He bounced around. Again, you have multiple players. You have an uneven number. So it wasn't like he was just with Carter Southern. But let me put it this way. It wasn't like he was regularly cycling in with his partner being one of the clear-cut NHLers. He was very obviously in the bottom half of that rotation. He's no longer waiver exempt. This is a big camp for him in terms of, and I'm not saying he's going to get claimed. I'm just saying that when Jager Zomul was in the same position last camp, they basically gave him a spot. It does not appear they are doing that for Ronnie Adder, which tells me that internally they ain't that high on him. No one's taking him. And that's the, we did this with Wade Allison last year. And it was like, yeah. And then he cleared and then we got rid of him. Like, I think he might be at least starting camp. Like, is that what we're thinking now? He's the Wade Allison, like, okay, he's waiver exempt. And he's probably a pro, but I don't know. He does nothing for us. We don't want, we're not in love with him. I don't get the sense they view him as part of the plan. That said, he can force himself into the plan. That's the great part about training. What we can't do is that guys can change the opinions of the organization if they play well enough. But I don't get the sense. Like, I said, I think I said this on a show. I might have said this on a video. I don't think Zomul had that grade of a camp last year. I think he was decent. But I don't think he banged the door down. I think they came into camp with the opinion of, we need to give this guy a shot because we like the skills set enough and we don't want to risk losing it for nothing. This is his chance and we're giving it a try. - Well, I don't know if they were thinking that far ahead with Mitch Koff. Because they didn't know when Mitch Koff was coming. - Fair. - I like to hope they knew the whole time. - I do not think they did the whole time. So you guys can believe it if you want. My point is that we saw them set the standard to how to treat no longer waiver exam defense been last year with Zomul, with Atard. They are not, at least based on today, they are not giving him that same treatment. That tells me their view of him is, you gotta go out here and change our minds. Otherwise, you're probably getting waived and you're probably going out on the minors and you might not be part of it. - And did you see anything out of him? - I thought he played pretty well. - He did look good. - I like Roddie Att. I like the skillset. I think he plays an interesting style, especially given the fact that he is a six foot three right hand shooting defenseman who can skate decently well with a good shot. I like the skillset. I do not get this as the fliers are particularly enamored with him. I thought he was pretty solid in the scrimmage. I thought he made some plays, jumped up in the newsroom zone a few times, had some decent passes. I thought he was fine, but I thought Wade Allison was fine in last year's camp and they didn't care. - I like traits of Roddie Att. From what I've seen of him. - Yeah, the idea of Roddie Att. - The idea of Roddie Att is a lot of fun. But my lasting impression of Roddled from last season in the 12 games he played, 42 total shot attempts, 14 on net. He missed a lot. He needs a GPS to find the net. Listen, I get lost going everywhere. So I understand naming GPS, but you can see the net, right? Like maybe we need to get him some like Wild Thing Volong. - Not just there. You're thinking Wild Thing. - Maybe Charlie Sheen is amazing. - I put him on a machine to put his basement that he can shoot at all day. Like, I just, you can have the biggest shot in the world. And if all you're doing is breaking the glass with it. I don't really see a point of you being out there. And that's really my top impression of him. But he is a guy who we said yesterday, due to just do stuff for fun. And he takes penalties, throws his body around. - He does stuff. He does stuff. And that's fun to watch. - He plays very aggressive style. And I'm not just talking about physically. He's always attacking. - Oh, he is. - I like Roddie Att. I just do not get the sense of the organization. Like, for example, I think the organization based on today and based on everything I've heard, I think they are hired at him shitting the Roddie Att. - I do. I think they are. - Interesting. - I think we got that impression a little last year 'cause watching both of them, it was like, oh, they're both doing some stuff out there. And then like the post games and whatever quotes would come out. And it would be like, oh yeah, Roddie looked good and man, ginning is just competing his ass all about. Like, it seemed in the games they got into, they liked ginning more. Even though it was like, I don't know, he was on defense a lot. And he's like, yeah, but did you see him defending? - I believe Att are played more games. So it's a weird thing where there's always an element of on some level, we know that Att are just better, but we just like ginning more. - Yeah. (laughs) - I see, I hate, that makes me upset. I hate that because it does seem like that a lot of times, and I don't know if it's just towards or if it's all three of them together have this weird thing. But I feel like once he's decided a thing about a guy, there's pretty much nothing that that guy can do to change the opinion. For example, he decided about Morgan Frost. And even though Morgan Frost played a lot better in the second half of the season, he was still scratched in the game that they kind of needed to win in order to try to make the playoffs. - I wish that they want so like once they close the book, the book is closed with some of these guys. - But in fairness, again, this is one of those, it's not a bug, it's a feature. - Yeah. - What they are paying, John Tortorella to do is to determine who's got it and who doesn't. And maybe John Tortorella has just decided that Ronnie Att are don't got it. And look, I'm not saying John Tortorella is the end-all be-all of deciding whether players got that dog in him or not, but the flier certainly seemed to think he is. - But they do. - So, and at the end of the day, whether we're talking about added or shining, who cares? - Yeah, I don't know. - Fair point. - Where are either of them going? - Yeah, like, I just, I hope they compete, I hope they continue to get better, I hope they push Igor Zamoula and all that. But like, even throw Zamoula, I like some of the things Zamoula does. These guys are third pair dudes at best. - Zamoula is very important this year. - Yeah, cause of the Mitch Cough factor. - Absolutely. - I think that is gonna be his first important role for this season. - Yes. - Absolutely. - On the ice, whatever. - Absolutely. - So get killed. - Off the ice, yeah. Like very, very important in terms of-- - Professional best friend. - Bringing in, making sure our savior is happy. You know, that's very, very important. But I know you need a third pair. If the fliers had a third pair in 2010, we wouldn't be coming up on your 50 without a cup. - Fair point. - But like, these guys are, if they pan out, are gonna be third pair guys. - Yeah, whatever. - I just don't care. - The Phantom's need a Fencement too. - Yeah, they do. They certainly, they certainly do. All right, Charlie, let's get to the, let's get to your state of the franchise article that I wanted to get to yesterday and I just won every year. - That's a long one. - It's really good. Great stuff. The first thing I wanna point out, just I'll tell you. - I love reading Charlie's writing. - He's such a good writer. - Retroactive Mirage in describing what we could be in a few weeks looking back on Leia season X. - At last year. - It wasn't a retroactive Mirage. Like, can we, all right, yeah, man, they got really good gold tending. - For a half of the year. - Yeah, up until, you know, it happened, like, their start to the year where it was like, oh my God, is this team making the playoffs? It's like, yeah, man, they got gold tending. They don't have anymore. The defense played over their head and one of those guys is gone. Like, all that stuff, maybe it was just fake. - Terry went from one seat to four seat. - Yeah, like, is Katori able to play at all? You know, he was really good to start the year. And then it just went away. And post all those things happening is who they actually are. There's no way of us knowing that until this season gets underway. But you write, the assumption is that the Philadelphia Flyers will at least be competitive and stay in the post-season hunt, but will they? When you look at the roster replacements, there is a real possibility. 'Cause like, last year was, you know, the sum is greater than the parts or whatever. But it's not as if we're replacing superstars here. Yes, Carter Hart was good. He was good last year. He wasn't winning the Vespa. - True, very true. - And like, a big part of how good the gold tending was was simply Ersen and he were able to split the starts enough that they both were getting ample rest. - Ersen was also good. - They were both very fresh. - They're in that period. - And then when that wasn't happening. - All right, it went, it went to hell. - Yes. - If Fidotov can just be normal. If he can not freaking suck. If he can play gold, better than this team power plays, like we will be probably okay in that department. - Just to be average. - Yeah. - That's all we need from you. - Is there, is there a world where these two are above average? Like, we get really good gold tending out of them the way we got really good gold tending last year. - I don't know why that's, it seems like people are kind of like going into the season, assuming that the gold tending is gonna be a problem. And I think while none of us know, if I had to guess, I would think it's going to be at worse fine. Like, I don't have any reason to believe that with an even split, something approaching an even split, Sam Erson can be what he was in the first half of last season. And I know nothing about Ivan Fidotov. I'm not gonna pretend I've ever watched a KHL game in my life. I do, however, know that his numbers weren't bad. They were pretty good overall. He had a couple of down seasons, I think. But for the most part, they're pretty good. So like, obviously he knows how to play gold. Like, he can do the things. Can he do them against NHL talent? I don't know, maybe. But I feel like the possibility is certainly there. Like, I just don't know why people are so down on it. Well, I think the possibility is absolutely there. I won't go as far as you in saying that, like, my expectation is that they're gonna be average. They could be average. They could be average. That's certainly possible. They could be above average. It's possible. Like, Sam Erson, if he's the guy from the first half and Fidotov is just decent, that's an above average gold talent. Because Sam Erson in the first half was significantly above average. And if he delivers that type of results in a number one, you know, bulk of the time type of role, that's an above average goalie pair. I do see worlds where it could be bad. I think, so I'm not gonna go as far as you. But to answer your question, the reason why there are some people that are very down in the goalies. And it's kind of human nature. It's because the last time people saw both of these guys, they stunk. Erson had a bad final two months. And Fidotov appeared in two games. And the second of those two games, he was awful. And there are a lot of people who that just sticks in their brains. And they, I mean, this is again, the big reason why at the end of the year, I was saying, don't play Colossoff. Don't play Fidotov. They're not ready. And you guys are like, no, play them. What's the worst that could happen? The worst that could happen is they stink. And then six months later, a lot of people still think they stink because they were thrown into a situation where they had no chance of success. - Oh, I mean context. - I'm just saying. I just like, and not even me 'cause I knew what the situation was and was like, I'm not gonna judge 'em on this. They were not good, but I understand. But if the worst case scenario is people like me saying dumb stuff, that's of zero consequence. - I assume Ivan's not listening to this English. - I mean, personally makes my life more noise. - I realize that for you. I realize that for you. I just think like, I'm gonna tell you right now, any flyers players who are listening to this show, the rest of the audience stay and then listen to watch all the videos, the clips we do after the show, watch Charlie's practice video, all any flyers players watching the show, do literally anything else right now. Don't listen to us. You gain nothing from me. - Just so you know, you like you. - Or yeah, like I'm really pulling for you. I'm gonna say a lot of ridiculous things, but rooting for you. You gain nothing from this stuff. - I just think that if you're wondering where the negativity comes from. Where the negativity comes from is that Futo Taft did not, like if you look at his numbers from last year in an extremely small sample, but if you look at his numbers, in the NHL, they're real bad. And then if you look at Ericsson's end of season numbers, they're real bad because he got ran into the ground over the second half. People look at those numbers and they say, these goalies are probably gonna stink. I don't share that kind of pessimism, but I understand why people would have that pessimism because number one, the last impression they had was bad. Number two, the full season numbers that they can look at on elite prospects or wherever. Look real bad. I think for me personally, I am just going into the goalies situation going. I have no freaking idea. - That's kind of where I'm at. - What do you think? - Like, it's a total coin flip. - Yeah. - I don't think it's a coin flip. I think it's because I do think decently high of Sam Harrison. - Yeah. - Futo is all I truly am right. - That's, I like the makeup of Sam Harrison. I wanna see what he can do. Like, I think he deserves the opportunity. I just have no idea. And when it comes to not knowing about goal tending in Philadelphia, I think a lot of people just go, "Oh, well, I know how this is gonna grow." - That's true. - But like we do have, like, listen. Who even knew who Bob Rovski was going into that game? - Nobody. - Yeah. - Roman Chekmonik at 29. - Nobody. - Like, there are some examples of guys just coming out of nowhere, some perhaps. All right. The next, like, then looking at a straight, basically substitution from last year to this year. Sean Walker out, Jamie Driesdale in. Now the team. - Driesdale was on a parent today with Nick Sealer. Unsurprised. We've talked about that since they got him here. - That's a work. I know it didn't, but I feel like it has to. - It just makes so much sense. - When I broke in Jamie Driesdale, I'm really, really rooting for that to work. - I know that so much, like that pair and Sean Walker, especially, like, when they lost Sean Walker, the wheels really fell off. Also, things were starting to fall apart while they still had Sean Walker. It's more than just the scoring. Like, just the ability to orchestrate a breakout. - Yes. - Competently. But you look at Sean Walker's numbers in Philly last year. Six goals, 22 points in 63 games. That should be replicable. - That's always my thing. Like, Sean Walker is not some, like, singular talent that you can't replace. - In those 16 numbers were really good. - The underlines were really good. - It was good. Like, there's no getting around it. - And even just some of the, even just some of the counting stats, like 98 blocks and 86 hits in 63 games, that's really good, too. - He was good. - He was a very effective player. - It's Sean Walker. - But Sean Walker is not a superstar. - No. - It shouldn't be, well, everything's got nothing now. - I mean, if you're talking-- - Jamie Gilesdale should be able to do this. - If you're talking about purely, like, offensive numbers, I will be disappointed if Jamie drives down. If he plays a full season, it doesn't outscore. - Absolutely. - Yeah, Sean Walker, because he's got more offensive ability. I do wonder if he can provide the kind of five-on-five play-driving stability that Walker did, 'cause that was really good. - Well, I mean, maybe with time, very young. I mean, I will say that if Jamie drives down, can't approach replacing Sean Walker, we do have kind of a big problem. Because it's, again, Sean Walker-- - And that's the reason-- - I just think Walker was-- - He was very good here. - I think he was better than you're giving him credit for. - I don't know, 'cause I'm giving him credit. I just, I feel like he was a product of the team and the coaching. And it's not like his singular ability is what made him that good. He was never that good before, and he probably won't be that good again. So like, I don't see any reason why they can't replicate it with a guy that has a similar skill set. - That is an optimistic way to look at it, and I respect the optimism. - Thanks. - I respect, even though he had that arduous rehab process, he put in some work Jamie drives Dale did. We talked about it yesterday. - The man put on 18 pounds. - You love to see it. - That's pretty impressive. It's, Mertitus today, it was like, seems like it's in his upper body. It looks like he has bulked up and for a guy with the abdomen and shoulder issues. - Shoulder issues. - We're gonna want him-- - Yes. - We're gonna need him to win some battles. Yes, I want him to be a high flying, really fun guy to watch, but end of the day, if you're not also winning battles and doing some of those little things that Sean Walker could do, you are gonna be a third pair of defensement, he is just a power play specialist. We need more than that from the guy with a copper cutter, Gautier. And it looks as if he's working towards that. I think that's another one where, Sean Walker was incredibly effective. - Yeah, yeah. - Jamie drives Dale should at least be able to approach that, paired with Nick Sealer, who also had a very good year last year. Now maybe that's part of the Sean Walker thing, like those two just were such a great compliment that they were able to each really do what they do well, but I gotta believe a dude taken sixth overall just a few years ago can be Sean Walker. - Still on 22, yeah. - Yes, yes, yes. And again, hurt the entire time he was here. - Yes. - So like, we've never really seen anything from Jamie drive. - I am going to, by the time the season actually begins, I'll have wiped the sweat slate clean with Jamie Johnson. I'm still, I still have a little of last year, and I'm doing my best to get rid of that, because I know he was hurt. But I do believe by October, what was it, 11th, 12th? - Yeah. - I will, we will be at zero with drives Dale and I will be able to go from there. The only real other replacement, Eric Johnson from Mark Stoll, who cares, whatever. And then of course, the major addition, Maffey Mishkov. - Yes, in the aggregate. - He good. - This goalie tandem, drives Dale for Walker and the addition of Maffey Mishkov. - They have to be as good talent-wise as they were last year, no? - Yeah, I don't perceive a talent gap between last year and this year. 'Cause again, the things started to fall off the rails when Walker left. And I think you said yesterday that Tortorella pointed out that like, he didn't adjust the way that they were playing after Walker left in order to accommodate for the fact that they couldn't do the rush the way that they were doing it with him. So like-- - Most part of it, yeah. - I just think that like, what we saw the first half of last season, it went on for long enough that I don't think it was a fake, like fake. Like I don't think that that was them out playing themselves so much that it's not replicable. Like Bill said, some better than parts. But I just don't, this like perceived talent gap, I don't really see it. If anything, I think they're better at this year. - And they continue to drive play. That's something, like usually if you're looking at a team that played over their heads, you go to the underlying numbers, you're like, okay, did you outshoot the other teams of five on five, did you out chance them? Those types of metrics. The flyers were a legitimately good five on five team in reality, not just, oh, we were relying on our goalie, we were shooting the lights out. They did not shoot the puck that well and they got awful goal-tending in the second half of the year. The only reason why they hung around, despite those things, is because they had a 12% power play. The only reason why they hung around is 'cause they were good at five on five. And that tends to be a sustainable skill, which does give me confidence that they can keep this up. - And this is why I think like, while Tour de Rela, and we even kind of made it a joke yesterday when he referenced PDO. Like, I think he is trying to kind of get across a little bit. We were better than the team that lost nine out of 11. It was just like, we couldn't finish and the goalies were bad. So like, you can't score and you can't stop and you can't score, and obviously there's two points of the game, but like, it's not as if we weren't doing the things that we had done all year. They just stopped working to the extent that they worked for the previous six months. - All right, and before we wrap up today's show, I just wanna thank all of the diehards out there. Very much appreciate everything our diehards do for us. And if you're not one, what the hell are you doing? Go to alphly.com, sign up to be a diehard, right. Now, and Charlie, like the substitutions bring guys in, it really is like the coots question, and then how much better did Brink, Forster, York, and Kate's get? And like, is there another level for Owen Tippett? Which Farabi do we see? Like it's really the guys that are here, what kind of games did they make? - And then obviously, you know, the, and I mentioned this in the piece, in the state of the franchise piece, the big thing too, and we'll bring it back to what is always the main topic. if Mitch Kopp is real good right.
