Charlie & Bill are back to reflect on yesterday’s Alexei Kolosov debate, and look towards what’s next for the goaltending position in Philadelphia.
PHLY Philadelphia Flyers Podcast
PHLY Flyers Podcast | Alexei Kolosov fallout, and what’s next for Danny Briere’s Flyers?
A day after Danny Briere addressed the media, and Charlie dropped his latest article (https://allphly.com/flyers-rebuild-prospect-drama-kolosov-gauthier/), Charlie & Bill are back to reflect on yesterday’s Alexei Kolosov debate, and look towards what’s next for the goaltending position in Philadelphia.
Plus, more previews of what to expect at training camp with John Tortorella’s infamous bag skate kicking off the on-ice sessions on Thursday morning.
- Broadcast on:
- 19 Sep 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
(upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) Hey everybody how you doing? Well that's good. Welcome to PHL Why Flyers. My name is Bill Matt's. I'm your director of fun and games this evening. Joining me as always, Philadelphia's number one hockey beat writer. It is Charlie O'Connor. What's going on today Chuck? How's it going? Preparing for the first day. Here it is man. Luckily I don't need to prepare nearly as much as the players do to survive day one. I was thinking about this when we talked about like today is kind of other than this kind of like your little day off and then bang. Not really. I've been writing. You didn't have to go to the facility today and then now and then you're in it every day. You're either covering a game covering practice doing whatever for the next eight months. I'm thinking though like I think Andy Reed when he was running training camp still up at Lehigh for the Eagles the media covering it. They were not allowed to sit in the shade. You had to be there standing in the sun. So you had a little taste. Is that a myth or is that real? I believe that that is true. Okay. So everyone just got a little taste to what the players were going through. Okay. It would be awesome. Towards tomorrow goes you want to you want your press pass. You got to get out there. We got skates for everybody. You got to do one lap. Just to see it. The the infamous the infamous bag skate or as we learned in the schedule as it is called the three by eight lap three hundred shuttle. So is I did not know it had a name is tomorrow. Is this open to the public? Can I go watch this training camp is always open. Okay. That's what I thought I just wasn't actually sure. You can see these these prospects and pros being tortured for a about a two hour period. If you want to if you want to see if your favorite flyer or phantom throws up. There's only one place to see it. It's at the Flyers training center. But you I want to talk a little bit continue our conversation from yesterday. We haven't had a good disagreement in a while. I really enjoyed yesterday's show. It's just I found it very funny that you were taking the other side because through the entirety of the lead up to this, you were the one who was ripping on the Flyers for all of this. And then you did like a full 180 once you heard that he wanted to be in an H.L. player. Well, the NHL player thing and I think like the conflation of him and cutter while the two combined it's like this is bad. I just can't find any similarities other than they happened and like I I if the entire thing comes down to this dude wants an NHL job. It's like well me too, bro. I do think and I want to make this point and I think there's more to I want to make this point that we talked about after the go TA stuff. Okay. That the Flyers did a very, very good job of PR and I praise them for it. I'm not saying that they're lying, but I am saying that they understand this market well enough to know that one thing that filled off the offensive particular really hate is when players have a sense of entitlement and by throwing that into the mix, yeah, I think they got a lot more people on their side than they would have otherwise. And I do think that again, not saying they're making it up. I'm just saying that I do think that was very intentional on their part and it worked. They're not stupid. I do like there's more to this and that's some of the things I want to get into as we continue and try to move this conversation forward because it's like standing said, I got to move on. But like, I think there's more to it than that. But if part of it is like, yeah, man, I'd be coming. Maybe I didn't love it. Maybe you didn't do all the right things for me. Maybe there's a lot left to be desired. But at the end of the day, Fido tops and the AHL and I'm in the NHL. I'll be there. Yeah. Well, then like too bad dude. Like that's if that's what it comes down to it. All this other stuff is just kind of a gripe. And this is really the crux of the issue then. But we won't know maybe ever. We won't know for some time. I think we'll find out more details because I do think Colossoff at some point is unlike Gautier, who I don't know if he's ever going to reveal the real reason. Truly do not know. Like Colossoff has been communicative with the flyers throughout all this. It's not like they haven't talked to the flyer. They didn't pull a goatee and just say no, you can send your franchise legends up to up to Boston if you want to. But I ain't talking to anybody. I'm not answering your calls. I'm not meeting with you. Colossoff is taking their calls. He his his agent has met with the flyers over zoom at the very least on multiple occasions through this process. And I think it's on point they will probably explain their side of this. But I'm not sure if they're ever going to provide an explanation that will be sufficient to flyers fans who look at this as if you want to be in the NHL, you got to earn a kid. And that's like cutter never has to talk because he got his way. Yeah, he got like, yeah, I'm living on the West Coast for a team that really wanted me like he got everything he wanted. He's playing in the NHL this year. He's in Anaheim. Good for him. Who do I have to tell my story to? It doesn't matter. I'm where I want to be. All right. Meanwhile, Colossoff, if he wants to play in the NHL, presumably is going to have to address this at some point, whether it's with the media, the flyers, another team. Yeah, if he's going to get if he's going to get traded, he's going to have that. He's going to have to have a conversation because the teams that are interested in him are not necessarily going to put him in the NHL right away. No, he would day. Yeah. Well, they could if they're high enough on him. But it would be presumably a much larger pool of potentially interested teams. If Colossoff says, well, for you, I'll go play wherever for a few months. I think if there was teams banging down the door for Lexi Colossoff, we never even get to development camp, but this is a potential story. It's a fair point. Like it's oh, there's some rumblings after Alan Taylor, and he wasn't happy. Oh, yeah, he's a national predator. He's gone now. Like, you know, it's and it's like, it's completely reasonable why teams would not be banging the door down for Lexi Colossoff. He is not a bad prospect. He is an interesting prospect. I think he's a top 10 prospect in the Flyers organization, but he's not a blue chair. He's not a star off. He's not on that level by any means. I think what you said, EP had him ranked 19th out of 20. Somebody had him ranked 19th out of 20 in terms of best goalie prospects in the NHL. He's a good prospect. You want a prospect like that in your organization because he has a chance of being something good, if not special. But he's not a, oh my God, he's available. We need to like roll the brain struck up to the Flyers and try to prime away. He's not necessarily the kind of guy who has the status of we're trading for you and we want you so bad. We're going to make you the backup in the NHL immediately. Yeah, he's not of that level. So the reaction to your article, has it been people agreeing? Like what has been that overall? It's about even 50 50 in the in the comments and Twitter replies. Like again, again, I think people a lot of Philadelphia fans, not Flyers fans specifically, but Philadelphia fans, it really rubs them the wrong way when they feel like a player or a prospect especially has a sense of entitlement. They respond very well to the idea of, no, you got to earn a kid. The one response I had to that though, in my comments section, there was a commenter who was critical of it. I was like, look, because he said, like I can't say it was a, I don't know for sure. But functionally, the argument was go to a, and again, I made it clear like, we really don't know why go to it. I didn't want to be a flyer. Maybe it had something to do. It maybe didn't. But the argument was two guys who were entitled. I don't want them. They suck. Screw them. Here's my, my flip side argument. What really is the functional difference between a Lexi Colosov saying, I want to be in the NHL, and if I, if I'm not in the NHL, I'm not coming over and Mape Mitch Koff and Ivan Fedotov saying the exact same thing, there is no difference. The only difference is the Flyers gave them their way and they didn't give Colos off his way. Do you think Mape Mitch Koff's coming over if he's going to be in the NHL? No freaking chance. Does that mean he's entitled? Well, we don't think he is, because we think he should be in the NHL. But functionally, he made almost certainly the exact same demand. The difference is, yeah, like, not everyone gets treated equally in professional sports. Like that's the thing is you get treated as good as you are. Right. That's why like, some criminals get to play. And then other ones get cut because they're not that good. Like that happens all the time. But my point is there is an element of hypocrisy. If you're going to say, well, they're not entitled because I like them, but he's entitled because I don't like him. I think it's the sense of entitlement exists. I don't think a sense of entitlement is necessarily a terrible thing for a prospect to have. It means you have confidence in yourself and you believe you should be in the NHL. Yeah. But also the people around you need to like help you be more self-aware. Okay. And part of that is the coaches in the organization saying you are not ready for this. You cannot play in this league. You're not very good in the KHL. You're okay. You're fine. You're good for your age. You're not an NHL goalie. You're not playing in the NHL. But by the same token, what proof do we have that Ivan Fedotov is an NHL goalie? Excessive success in the KHL. Recently, not last year, last year, he was at average KHL goalie on a really good team. Whereas Colosol was a slightly below average KHL goalie on a bad team. I think probably if you if you if you wait the quality of team, I think they had probably about the same season in the KHL. Yeah. Fedotov has a longer resume and he's older and he has special circumstances. Now we can get into is it right to appease those special circumstances? There. I don't know. But I just think his age and his resume make him like this is make or break time. He's not a prospect. Like you said, and maybe that's part of the issue with Fedotov is like when the flyers bring over Roman Checkmonic makes sense. Need a goalie. They're pursuing a Stanley Cup. You throw them in there. See if it works or not. It did. He was good. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. It's the risk you take a rebuilding team, a guy his age. It's like, all right. So he plays out this two year contract. We find out he's all right. He's now 30. What do we do? What's even what is even the point of finding this out for the flyers, except for the fact that I was thinking of this after the show wrapped up last night and just driving home. I'm like, how could I got shortly better? I'm like, well, might be a nice trade for them in a year. I just, I just think I don't buy the like he is completely in the wrong because he has a sense of entitlement because my viewpoint is that if you're going to make that argument, you have to make that argument for Ivan Fedotov who made the same demand. I'm not going to come over unless I am in the NHL. I'm not spending time in the NHL. And in addition, not only am I not going to come over unless I'm in the NHL right away, you got to pay me three mil plus a year for me to even consider coming over. Like that's a sense of entitlement too. Yeah. It's, it's just the flyers acquiesced to him and they didn't call us off. It's a matter of leverage. Some guys have leveraged some guys, but who decides who has the leverage the flyers do? The flyers could have very easily told Fedotov. Yeah, we'll have you come over the NHL, but like you haven't done crap. We're not giving you three mil a year. They acquiesced. So suddenly it doesn't feel like a sense of entitlement. It feels like he won the negotiation. Whereas Colosov had not the exact same demand, but similar ideas. It's just he didn't win the negotiation and fans because there's a predisposition to trust the organization and the team you like are like, well, he's entitled because the flyers think he's this and he thinks he's this. I'm just saying I don't think it's quite fair to hold the two, the two Russian or Belarusian ones, Belarusian ones, Russian two different standards because one guy, the flyers agreed with them. One thing didn't except one already signed the contract. Okay. Okay, therefore fair point. Lost the negotiation. I'm in the LC is not really a negotiation. It is what it is, but there's bonuses and stuff, I guess, but like this is the agreement. You can sign it or you can just not. He changed his mind. That is very true. He changed his mind post. Like Fedota, I've never changed his mind. Yeah, he was arrested. Yeah, sure. And put on an aircraft carrier. And then like the KHL decided like, yeah, we're not we're tearing up the memorandum of agreement. And we don't think tolling contracts exists. So he's ours again. Right. Like, and all these things happened. And then eventually, like, yes, they get him over on like that ELC that I guess still sort of existed. And then kind of and then it existed when they wanted it. It was like, yeah, sure. Okay. And then they give him the off season contract. And now that's really his first deal. But he had leverage. Kolsom doesn't because he signed already. The same thing with color Gucci. He had all the leverage because it was like, yeah, man, if you want the fifth pick in the second round, a couple of years from now, sure, you'll get something for me or trade me now. Right. I mean, that's functionally what they got. They got what is probably going to be around that pick in the dry sale trade. Exactly. Yeah, they got basically that pick and him. It's like, all right, cool. And maybe dry sales. Awesome. Maybe about him. I was really trying not to say it. But yes, exactly. And like he just didn't didn't have that kind of leverage. And yeah, if he wants, if he doesn't like it here, he doesn't want to come here, like that is, I suppose, his right. But he ain't never going to play in the NHL, then the flyers have to do exactly nothing. This is now on his Kolsom want a North American career or not. Because if he does, he has to acquiesce at some point. And to be clear, like, I don't think the flyers are even necessarily wrong for doing what they did their viewpoint. And it they may be right 100% right. So their viewpoint is that if we acquiesce to Kolsom and we were to, you know, let's say we could just tear up the photo and they can't do this. But let's say in a world they can just tear up the photo to off contract, you know, exile him somewhere and then Kolsom, okay, you're our number two come over. They believe, and I think they honestly believe this, is that that would be the wrong thing for Isabel that he is not ready. He needs to have some time in the HL at least a few months, if not a whole season, to adjust to the North American game, to have our goalie coaches work with them, to have our training staff work with them. And then he can earn his way up. And they think that it would be a negative for his development to toss him into the NHL. So if they believe that this isn't a, this isn't a matter of deciding between, well, do we get Kolsom or do we not? This is a matter of deciding, do we get Kolsom and give him the best chance of being a good player in the long term? Or do we screw him up by acquiescing to his irrational demand and then have him end up having a, we end up having to have this conversation in a month anyway, because he's got an 8.50 say percent of J sticks. I think that is a reasonable way for the fliers to look at. I don't think they're necessarily wrong in believing that. I don't know, because they have a lot more information about the development and the talent level of Kolsom. They've watched them way more than I have. They know a hell of a lot more about goalies than I ever will. At least the people presumably making the evaluation decisions about the goals. That's fair. My point in that article has always been these are now two guys to top 10 prospects in the organization in one calendar year that you lost. And I'm not sure what exactly is wrong, but this can't keep happening if you want to rebuild to work. If every year you're going to lose 20% of your top 10, because you can't figure out how to get them acclimated and integrated into your organization. This is one thing I thought of yesterday. Both players drafted by a previous regime. I made this point last week. I have made the point like, listen, yeah, like Fletcher's out, Breair's in, Scott's out, you know, Hillford, he's in, they bring in Jonesy, but a lot of the same people. Brent Flair's still here. Yeah, Brent Flair's still there's a lot of the same people too. There's different people at the top making the final call, but yes, a lot of the infrastructure around draft day is very similar. Could this be an issue of draft day and immediate aftermath promises versus what this regime is willing to do? Now, for years, we've kind of thought like, man, the flyers just love overcooking their guys. They would so much rather over develop a guy than bring them up and they still very much believe that, but it is like they've said it out loud. Jamie Driesdale probably wouldn't even been in the NHL first. Definitely not right away. Yeah, like they have said this about guys. There is the rumor that they were like, oh, yeah, cutter, maybe you don't earn it right away. You play a little in the AHL blah, blah, blah. At the very least, it seems like they didn't when cutter was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. They were they didn't say to him, we want you in the NHL right now and you are the greatest thing ever. It seems like at the very least, the flyers didn't do that. If that was the reason, it doesn't speak very highly for you, cutter, but at the very least, they didn't beg him to turn pro as soon as possible. The idea that we are going to, unless there are extraordinary circumstances like Matt, they much have a guy who could be a franchise changing player. They're gonna tell you, you might be spending time in Lehigh. Guys don't seem to like that very much, which is fair. Is this organizational philosophy just kind of bad? Well, I don't know if it's bad because what they're looking at is what is the best thing for the play. I don't think they're doing this from a selfish point of view just to screw with these guys because they're dictators and they hate kids. Yeah, they're doing it because they think the kids will be better served developmentally by not getting rushed to the NHL. And that is fair. I completely understand that. I just, it's less about whether they're right in this instance and it's less about whether the like slow playing prospect development is the right strategy. It's more about organizational results. If you're going to have that organizational philosophy, generally speaking, that, you know, we're going to make you earn it. You're going to have to, you know, painstakingly go up the ladder because we think that's best for your development. That is a fair organizational philosophy. You can debate back and forth whether it's the right one or not. I think there can be strong opinions one way or the other. But here's the thing, if that's going to be your organizational philosophy, you got to make sure you're drafting kids who personality and character wise are going to be okay with that philosophy because if you're not and then you hold that philosophy, it's like, well, it's kind of your fault if you took an entitled guy and then you're mad two years later that he's entitled. Who are the great successes of the flyer's developmental process? I mean, they've developed guys like if you're asking for a great success in the sense of being coming a superstar, no, but like Travis Knackney is developed into a Dargo player Travis Ann, I was developed into a quality top four defense man. There's a lot of guys they've drafted and developed and have turned to do good players. I don't know what their ultimate ceilings were and I know everyone is going to say, well, they could have been better, but now we're debating a theory. I'm thinking of Sean, I guess Travis and Heim did probably spend too much time, quote unquote, too much time in the AHL. You might be able to say the same for Cam York. But I'm thinking like Sean Catourier, you mentioned Travis Knackney, Ivan Proverov, the guys who've been good for them. Goss despair, but he really got hurt didn't spend a ton of time in the AHL. They kind of skipped that step. They're straight to the NHL or mostly straight to the NHL guys. I can't really think of a great organizational victory doing it this way. Like Scott Walton's a nice player. And that's it. But maybe that's all he could have been. And they got the absolute most out there by doing it the way they did. I don't know, but like I don't think it should be it should be so easily dismissed. I don't think it's dismissed. I just when you talk about organizational track record, it's not as if they're Tampa Bay and it's like, yeah, man, we just lost two guys to free agency. We brought a couple guys up and they they both have 42 points. Like there's there's not a whole bunch of, you know, mark docs coming up. Just like, oh, yeah, we brought them up from the fandoms and they were pretty good. It doesn't happen all that much for this team. Yeah. And we've talked about this that like, this is a problem of development. Now, is it the let me put it this way. Here's the reason why I'm pushing back me is because I'm skeptical that it's like the reason why these guys haven't developed is because they got slow played. I think that if there's a developmental issue, I don't think it's that they spent too much time in the AHL and might have been that the people that were developing them in the AHL weren't good at developing. And that's if that's the case, which I think may have been over the last several years, then like, you know, Oscar Limblom does it overseas. And then he comes over and it's like, yeah, man, he should be up. Like, did you spend some time in the AHL and the whole time we were like, why, what are we doing? And then he came up and was quite good until he got cancer. Yes. So you could argue that that was going to be a developmental story until the fates intervened to me. The development happened prior. Maybe like they worked with him here certainly and gave him the tools to be able to like go back to Sweden and develop his game. But like, I don't know, I just, I think it is a fair strategy. I think it, it does have merit. I just can't think of all that many times. It's really worked out for the flyers. It works for other teams. Yeah, I think that's true. Yeah, I just don't know if they have the right people for this thing. I think, as I said, for me, it's less about a critique of the overarching organizational developmental philosophy. And it's more that if you're going to have that philosophy, you got to vet the guys you're drafting to make sure or be pretty confident that they're going to be okay. And they're not going to turn their back on you. If you tell them, no, you can't jump right to the NHL. You're not ready yet. All right, we're going to have more on this and some other fun camp stuff coming up in just a minute. But I got to take a second, tell you about one of our newest partners here at PHly. That's right. It is glatt hair restoration. 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Maybe, you know, listen, they gave Fredotov three and a half million dollars. He's getting paid more. He's the higher paid goal. He's getting paid double almost. Like, it's, it's, it's a considerable amount of money. But he, and we hope Fredotov is the backup and can push for starts the way Harrison did last year, where it started to become a tandem and then, you know, whatever unfolded and folded, but that's the hope behind them. I realized that like 22 year old Alexi Colesov, who they don't believe is ready for the NHL, wasn't exactly the best insurance policy. But now it's Cal Peterson, who I don't even know if you can bring him back into this locker room after last year. You can. I think, I think you are overstating. Like, yes, he was an embarrassment. He was really bad in that game. But I don't think it's a situation where like, if he walks in the players in the room are going to turn their back simultaneously. No, I don't even think it's like that. Like, the fact that he had a really bad game, and it was one, and then they were like, see ya, and just jettison him back. Like, I don't know. I just don't think it's clear that the coach at least has no confidence in him. And why would he believe that they're going to have his back? Like, I just don't know if it's a tenable situation with Cal Peterson on this NHL roster. I mean, it's going to be what it is. If there's an injury, they have no one else. Like, all these other guys are who, what, where, when and why? Yeah. Like, it's okay. No, Cal Peterson right now is very clearly the number three. Yeah. The one potential wild card in this situation, though, is E2 Makaniemi, who is on a PTO. Now, this is a guy who isn't old. He's 25 years old, so he's not quite a prospect, but he's not a grizzled vet. He was a, he was drafted by Carolina. He ended up, I believe, in the San Jose organization. Then he was left unqualified, so he became a free agent. And boom, he then is offered a PTO by the Philadelphia Flyers. Now, granted, I think a lot of this is driven by the Colosov situation. They don't have another goal. Well, they do. They have other guys. They have, they have, like, they have Gahagan. They have guys who are on a HL contracts, who could play in the ECHL, but also could play in the HL. If Makaniemi has a good camp, though, a good main camp, he will be, he's presumably at camp now. Today's the off I say he'll be on ice tomorrow, although actually, the goalies aren't on ice. The goalies do a very difficult, um, bike thing that is high, high pressure. It's obviously, I imagine not as bad as the, uh, the towards bag, but they, they feel some pain tomorrow. Okay. That's actually one of the things I wanted to ask you at the top and totally forgot. They, they do feel something, but they don't have to do a bag skate in, uh, in full goalie paths. That would be freaking funny. Someone might actually die. They would quit. Yeah. You'd have guys quit. Someone might die on the ice. We call it Colosov Island. It would be like four Flyers goalies. You're like, no, I'm not going to work anymore. Exactly. Exactly. But Etune net, uh, Makaniemi is interesting because he's on a PTO and I get the sense from the people I talk to during rookie camp that the Flyers are intrigued by him. There is a non zero possibility. He ultimately gets an NHL two way contract, especially if they are a hundred percent certain that Colosov is never going to come because there's so, I think I hope that I will leave the spot open for him. You know, maybe in November rolls around and boom, he comes over and then we have a good goalie prospect in our HL team. We don't want to fully block him, but if they in a few weeks come to the conclusion, like, all right, this Makaniemi guy looks pretty good and Colosov and Cavan, they might give him a contract and then they have a guy who, you know, I don't know if he's going to be anything, but last year in 18 games in the HL, he had a nine hundred same percentage. Is it great? No. Could it be better than Cal Peterson? Maybe it's very possible. It's absolutely and I think Gagan was pretty good for the Fannoms last year and limited action. Yeah, some good games to be sure. But this was, this was actually a question. Like, and we know in the pipeline, Bjarnison's a dragon, they're a while away, but having a very short, you had a very strong rookie camp. So, the dragon so far in the KHL for a bad social team is looking real good. Now, it's only two three games, extremely small sample size, but listen, that's exciting. It is exciting. This was a question, I think I saw someone ask us on Twitter a few days ago, and I can't find the tweet anymore. Sorry for not recognizing you, but essentially, we've talked a lot, like even at the NHL level, about how it's really hard to judge and evaluate young players, especially defenseman, if like every shot goes in, like you're going to, no matter how, you're going to get frustrated. You could, you could be the best defensive pair in the league. Not wrong. If you're going to allow some shots, and if they're going in at a higher clipped and, you know, average, I mean, we value for the month when Carter Hart couldn't stop a puck, and Brian Ellie was too old to play games, and the team fell apart, they lost, they gave up like nine goals in a week, two times the Rangers. Yeah, like we saw what happens, a team falls apart when a goalie can stop a puck. Is this bad? You look at the fannoms roster, Emil Andre, Hunter McDonald, some other young guys, Ethan Sansom, Helge Grands, maybe Oliver Bonk next season. We'll see how the situation unfolds, but Colesav's never coming. Like, it's going to be more Cal Peterson's and. But I think could, I think you are, you are letting your anti-Cal Peterson bias make you think he's even worse than he is. He is not a bad AHL goal. He might not be a great AHL goal, but not good. I mean, he's not a terrible AHL goalie. I think he is perfectly acceptable in the AHL. He's a really bad NHL goalie, at least based on what we've seen the last two, three years in the AHL. I think he's acceptable. And then in the other third of games, they have like essentially an ECHL goalie, maybe. Is it hard to, is this going to hinder the development of like Andre and McDonald and guys like that? Do you think that that is a possibility? I'm not terribly concerned about it, because I don't think that Cal Peterson is awful in the AHL. He shouldn't be in the NHL. You know, in a pinch, if somebody gets hurt, yeah, me. But as an AHL goalie, 900, save percentage, it ain't great. It's, it's not so bad that I think it's going to kill the confidence of the defenseman on the team. He did get to 902 last year for quite a bit of the season. It was in the eight, nine days. He didn't get to 902. He got better as the year went on, which I think is a relative way to look at it. But yes, I don't know. I do not think that the defenseman on the fandoms are going to be hurt dramatically from a developmental standpoint, because they have to play it for a couple of years. I don't think so. All right. And if they get this Mac and the Emmy guy and he's better than maybe you got a decent tandem in the AHL. Okay. That's, that was really just all I wanted to do with that. But it will be interesting to see, I think if like Cal Peterson games and this is, there's nothing they could do about it unless Colosseau decided to come over. Like that's, yeah, that's what this is. But to me, it's in a rebuilding year, like playing Cal Peterson. It's like, man, we have guys were developing, we have guys were figuring out even a fadotov who isn't a prospect or anything. But I think it could be maybe an interesting trade piece in a year, year and a half, with an expiring contract and, you know, 50% of three or three ish million, like for a team in the hunt, we saw how many teams needed goalies down the stretch of this past year. I'm just like, at least there's reasons for that. It's just like, Cal Peters, who gets into a game, this is a game we accomplish nothing in terms of our goalie question. And I realize 82 out of 82, you can't, you got it. Sometimes you got it for somebody. I get it. It's just, it's just, you really, really hate Cal Peters. I do. And the idea of like, okay, and then if someone gets hurt, we could put Colosseau in, well, then that helps figure out what he is, or at least give him an idea of what it takes to play at this level. And you're figuring something out. You're accomplishing something. Playing Cal Peterson accomplishes nothing but playing out the schedule. True. But again, everybody has third goalies like that. I know. The crappy pro guys who they're just there in case. The Flyers had a guy. And now they do. Yeah. And you seem relatively okay with this about 10 minutes ago. I'm okay with the Flyers stance on the thing, but the situation it puts them at an hour. The situation it puts them in now, even though I do think it's the goalie's problem, like, it's not ideal. Right. It's bad. No. And I do think that's a big reason why they are. They're playing this mock me. I mean, situation and they're going to see what they what they see in camp. If he stinks in camp, probably not getting a contract. But the way they could look at it with my me. I mean, if he's good, we give him the contract. And if Colosseau changed his mind in December, you know what? Who gives a crap about Cal Peterson? Like Cal, you're the number three goalie of the HL you ain't playing ever. That would be great. And you would love that. He gets to travel. He gets to travel by plane. You know, he's collecting his money. Good for him, man. And then he never plays. That would be that would be excellent for all levels of this organization. Before we get to the Bobby Brinks stuff, because I feel like we've talked around and about Brinks situation, but never him specifically a body just body break is a low key. Interesting guy for this camp from from camp and things we heard, like Coots drives the El Risto all got surgery this offseason. They're going to skate tomorrow. They're all cleared. According to Danny Breyer, there are no injuries to NHL players. The only injuries that they're dealing with heading into camp are, you know, you have to send them to a mall is a little banged up. He's day to day Denver bark. He's getting over mono. So there's some some prospects who might not be ready for the skate test. According to Breyer, everybody else will be ready for the skate test, which includes Gatoria Risto dries out. I can say I personally have seen Gatoria and dries El skating with the group. I have not personally seen Risto, but I believe somebody caught caught him on the sideways camera with the like the rink barn video on the ice. So he has been on the ice. I would expect all three of them to be out there, which I'll say, but that's based on everything I've heard and seen. They should be out there. The saga of Rasmus first the line and continues. I just, this guy, man. All right, body break. He's a player specifically that like, we've said things like, Oh, if there's a surprise to make this team, surprise it forward. Like Sam who took a while, comes out has a great camp. It could be ranked spot, like a Massimo Rizzo, whoever. If someone is going to be supplanted by basically this year's Bobby Brink, it will be Bobby Brink. Because it just seems as if he's the one kind of bubble guy still, even though he made the team out of camp last year and had a pretty damn strong start to his NHL career. The way the season ended, he gets demoted in mid January. He scored right away when he came back up his first two games back up. He scored a goal, but he only, I think he played 25 games after his re promotion and he put up five points, something like that or his 19 games after his after he came back, he put up five points, but in total, it was like 25 or 26 games and he put up five freaking points. So very bad ending. We all know what happened in game 82. He along with Morgan Frost gets benched for the for the final 30 minutes of the game. Interesting decision, but that's one way to put it. Yeah. Two year two, your top eight guys and points per game. You need to score. I don't know. Maybe they should be playing, but whatever. Brink himself surprised last year. He was pretty good. I liked what I saw, especially through just the new year. 48 point pace. He put up 18 points in 31 games through December 30 shows where you're like, is he a dark horse called or contender? He was for a little while keeping pace in certain statistical, statistical categories. It was always going to be Connor Baddard. Let's Connor Baddard's leg fell off. He was going to win the trophy. I was like, Hey, he might get some down ballot love. He's had a pretty good year. Then he went after December 31st. He went seven straight without a point then gets sent down. And then like I said, yes, who ends up with five points in his final, like 26 games, not great. But he put up 13 points and 13 games with the fan. He was very clearly too good for the A. Yeah. He was a good scorer in college. He was very good at Denver. For a non elite prospect, like he was a second round pick in no one's confusing him with Maffee Mitch coffee. He could be a good middle six player, but I don't think anyone's like, Oh, yeah, he's going to be a point for game guy. That would be nice, but I doubt it. It kind of seems like he had a pretty normal rookie year. I would say so. Like this is kind of what happens to rookies, especially for guys like 18 months before had hip surgery and had like shorter first seasons in the A.H.L. where they're just kind of, we heard like, Oh, yeah, he's like, you know, good distributor on the power play because he'll always be able to do that in the A.H.L. But he can't skate like he was out there on one leg. They're basically telling anyone he came back from. Yeah, it was a fairly rough. Yeah. It's like, I know we've said if someone is going to maybe get bumped to him or he can become the 13th forward, but like, is anyone who could do that? Does anyone who could do that have a higher ceiling than Bobby Brink? Well, so I do think that there's an element here where the idea of Brink not making the team number one, the idea of Brink not making the team, I think is just, it's not going to happen. He has no longer way for exempt. I do not think they're going to risk losing him for nothing just because he had a bad couple weeks of training camp. Could I envision a potential scenario where he ends up starting the year off as a scratch because somebody else who's a forward prospect has a monster camp? Sure, it's possible. But I do think we are probably, I don't even think that we are over exaggerating the possibility because I think every time we bring it up, we say he's probably making the team, but it's more like we have a daily podcast. So we have to be like, well, if anybody isn't going to be on the team, isn't going to be in the lineup that we think probably is, it's got to be Brink because everyone else can't envision a scenario where they're not. He's the only guy where it's like, even a little bit plausible, he might not be in the lineup who seems like a lot. So we might be talking about a little bit more than we should be making the team and in the lineup are two different things and maybe I framed it poorly. He's making the freaking team. They're not waving Bobby Brink, that would be quite a surprise. Yes. This is John Torrella, sure, but like, you know, they're not waving Bobby Brink, probably. Probably. But like, we're looking right now, you look at the lineup and if it is, as you go, all right, 13 forwards, probably going to be some moving around, but Deloria looks like the odd man. But I think he's going to play, especially in the first half. It's easier. Yeah. If an extra guy makes the team, like, was the case last year, two extra guys made the team and they're like, we'll figure it out. It could be Bobby Brink relegated at least to start. Yeah. Two press box do. Yeah. I think that is a real possibility. Oh, oh, if he has a bad camp and Sam to Amal has a great camp, yeah, I could even see a scenario where, let's say none of the prospects have a great camp and nobody bangs the door down and earns their way. I could envision a scenario where Brink is a healthy scratch for game one anyway. If he has a bad camp and they just have Deloria on line four and they have no gates on line three and Bobby's in the press box. I think that's possible. Now, again, this is assuming Brink has a bad camp. Brink has a good camp. He's in the lineup. He's making the team. He's in the lineup because they're excited about it. One of the big reasons why they bought out Cam Atkinson is because Miskoff's coming and Brink still needs a spot. So, okay, well, Cam's gone. They're just Bob Bobby. They like Bobby Brink, but I equate his, I equate the way that I suspect John Swordarell have used him to be the way that John Swordarell viewed Cam York going into last camp where he straight up said this is the beginning of camp. John Swordarell, and we saw what happened with Cam York this year. He straight up said, I don't know if Cam York's an NHL player yet. He's got to prove that to me still. Now, Cam York very much did. Yeah. He ended up starting up a year in the top four. By the end of the year, he was a top pair. Use the number one defense when by the end of the day, probably, but this time last year, John Swordarell was not fully sold. And I suspect if you ask him about Bobby Brink, he'll say it's not a similar Bobby had a nice rookie year. He did some nice things, but he still needs to prove he's an every nine NHL player. I am hopeful he will, but I don't think he has quite proven that, especially not to someone as demanding as the head coach of this hockey team. That's the, I guess that's really where all these conversations come down to, is like this guy, all roads fleet back to John Swordarell. It's really like the Tour de Rela of it all could be the subtitle of all of our podcasts. It's, I guess, like we're talking about these development paths for guys. I don't see how a rebuilding team can scratch a Bobby Brink. Like, I don't see how that makes a little bit of sense for them whatsoever. Now, last year, last year, rebuilding team scratch Morgan Frost. And that was silly. Yes, silly. But it happened. It happened 10 times. I guess it's just, I don't get this development idea. Listen, if it's in service of Samu to Amala playing, like he knocks down the door, he makes a team dope. All right, then we have a, now we have competition. We have competition on our third line. Who's going to be this guy? Okay, I can live with that. It's just like, I don't know, man, how much do we need some of these players that are like, well, but again, this goes back to something I've said on Twitter. I say the discord all the time. Don't get mad about something before it happens. Right now, we are very much speaking in hypotheticals. And the only reason why we're bringing up Bobby Brink as a potential scratch option is because, well, somebody's going to have to sit at some point. And if they want to lower in the lineup, if they really like Kate's, like, yeah, I, I guess there are other guys we could be naming, you know, Joel Faraby hasn't rubbed towards the right way all the time. Could he be a game one surprise scratch? Like, I don't think so, but you never know. Action. Imagine a $5 million game one scratch. Yeah, it would be, it would be insanity in the moment, but John DeRilla doesn't shy away from insanity. So they're, yes, like, I do not vision a scenario where tribes connect the Owen tip it. Mott Bay Mitch cough is scratch for game one. But there are other guys. There are other guys where you're like, you know, yeah, towards his, towards is the kind of crazy where like that's not completely out of the realm of possibility in his head. This is Bobby Brink. It's very much in the realm of possibility. Yeah. I mean, he got sent down. He went on a seven game pointless streak last year after being on a 48 point pace and then immediately got sent there. Like, it's very possible. I would just like from you, because you study the prospect pool more than me. You have more concrete thoughts. I watched them play and go, Oh, I like them. Oh, I don't. And every time I see them play, my opinion changes. And you forget what you thought of it. And I forget. I talked about in at four 20 today. That's when I did the reads. Is there a forward prospect right now that could potentially bump brink to the press box that has a higher ceiling than Bobby Brink? It's an interesting question. To Amala is probably the closest because to Amala to Amala, I think definitely has a better skating tool. And I guess if all breaks right, he could be a second liner. I don't think that's what he's going to be. But I guess he could maybe with the right line mates. Rizzo in theory. Again, with him, we talked about him. It's more like, well, either it's going to translate or it's not. Well, in rookie camp, it didn't look like it's going to. But sometimes guys have mediocre rookie camps. And then in main camp, it hits Bobby Brink had a mediocre rookie camp last year. And it clicked for him like a week into main camp. And then from that point on, it was off to the races. So can't roll that out. And hey, if Rizzo's skill set translates, yeah, maybe he could be a second liar. He's like a top six or bus kind of guy. But I do agree with you that looking at the guys, and I guess, I guess, if you want to open the door to this possibility, Jet Luchenko has a higher upside than Bobby. Okay, he does that outside possibility, which after criticizing or at least calling into question the fliers development path, I'm like, no, I might actually agree with the Jet Luchenko. I think but listen, if he makes a team, I'm going to be excited because it'll be a new shiny toy. First round pick made the team. But I would say I would say other than Luchenko, I do not think that there is a prospect who is at a forward prospect at this camp who theoretically could make the team and has a higher plausible upside in my mind than Bobby Brink. No, I don't think there is. And I really like to a mile. Yeah, I like what I've seen out of to a mile and he was on my guys. I like list from the from the rookie games. He's creative. He's a good skater. He's fun to watch. He does things. I love guys who do things. Got a lot of guys who don't. He does stuff. We've had them plenty over the years. This guy does stuff. It's fun. But I just see, like I said, I don't think he's going to be a pointy game player, but I see exactly what you want in the middle six winger out of Bobby Brink. Guy who can be maybe the primary distributor on like a power play to, if not, at least a compliment on power play one. Like I just think he does a lot of things well. He gives you a great chance in shootouts. That's something they badly need because regular season. It's still part of the game. He's still listed at like 169 beefed up at all, Bobby Brink. Well, this actually was a conversation that popped up in Discord today because one of our all PHLY.com one of our regulars in Discord posted the the weights of the players going into last year's camp versus the weights of the same players going in this year's camp and then created like a chart of Oh, this guy gained this much more or this guy lost or whatever. And it was an interesting look. And I do think there's something to be taken from an analysis like that. But what I had to point out was that they haven't done the physicals yet. Like they released, they released those weights yesterday. These guys have not checked in to know what they actually weigh her the flop. So that weight for Bobby Brink is what he measured at last year because the big one that this guy pointed out was, Oh my God, Travis and I beginning of last year's camp was at 180. Now he's at 220 or something. I was like, okay, but that was last year. He like, he made the gains. The gains were real. But what it was was that going into last year's camp, he was by the fliers measurements at 189, I think. And then by the fliers measurements after day one of camp was up and you packed on the weight bud. Like it's not that he's gained 25 pounds going into this camp is that he gained that last year. And this is the first sign that the numbers are actually accounting for as we it was like the big talking point last year was like, saying how twice the size he was. Yeah, I totally messed this up and lost track of time. And we got it. We got it. We got to get some read. You got to get ready. You got to get ready for all seasons with quality shades built to last. And our friends at Shady Ray's have you covered with premium polarized shades that won't break the bank. Shady Ray's is an independent sunglasses company offering a world class product rated five stars by over 300,000 people. Their shades have durable frames and crystal clear optics, making them the perfect choice for all outdoor adventures. And they have hundreds of options to choose from. So you're bound to find the perfect pair to match your style. Plus, if your shades ever go missing or take an unexpected hit, don't sweat it. 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Pollens going to be high if allergies look like it's going to be a problem for you. Maybe run the air conditioner, stay inside, try to avoid the situation and use a dehumidifier. Dust mites and mold thrive in human environments and a dehumidifier helps take the moisture out of the air so that allergens can't grow. Also very helpful say to run to your local Rite Aid for a dehumidifier when your basement floods, perhaps, you know, just one of those things. And if you're going to be outside gardening, putting up your Halloween decorations and whatnot, wear protective mask and gloves. That's not enough. Try the over counter options available at your local Rite Aid like a nasal rinse, any histamines or nasal corticosteroids. Still not enough relief, ask a Rite Aid pharmacist if a different type of allergy medication like a decongestant might be necessary. And you can always ask your Rite Aid pharmacist for recommendations on ways to get relief during allergy season. Before we get into the stretcher on our show, I do want to address something because I saw it in the comments section. The question of why did we change the time of the show from 1 p.m. to 4. It is a very easy explanation. It'll make all the sense of the world when I say it. If we had it at 1 p.m. during the season, I wouldn't be able to make the show because they practice usually starting somewhere between 10 30 and 12 every day. And there's no way I could cover practice, get you all the information that a B reporter has to get and also get back to the studio in time for 1 p.m. show. So this is our regular season time because I have to push it back a bit. If I'm going to get here to do a show, blame the fliers, brain practice, blame practices. I floated the idea. I floated the idea of getting Charlie's cardboard cutout to sit next to me and just playing the audio of his practice notes from the day before. But that just seems like a lot of work for Brent, honestly, doing an hour show of just like five clips of Charlie would be difficult. But so we're starting at four. This is our non game day time for the season. It may be our permanent time forever. I want the one o'clock's back next summer. I don't know if I'm going to win that negotiation. And you know what happens if I lose that negotiation, I continue to come to work because I have a contract. Anyway, Poppy Prink. While we're here, I got to thank all of our PHLY diehards. I'm actually doing this part early. I got to thank all of our PHLY diehards. We couldn't do what we do here without you sign up to be a diehard at all PHLY.com. So you get things like Charlie's amazing. Alexi Colesauv article in which he's totally wrong. He's probably right. What else? Bobby Brink thing. I think you're right. Like it is one of these. We keep going. Oh, someone's going to get bumped out. It's kind of big. Yeah. But in all likelihood, probably not. It will be interesting to see the lineups and how they arrange the bottom six. It starts the season, especially when they're like, yeah, man, we got to get the Laurier in there. He's got to protect Myschkov. It's like, if those two are on the ice together, though, that's a mistake. I mean, my first thought is that the chalk pick to be out of the line up to start the year, assuming everyone's healthy and assuming they go in with the priority of we need to worry in there to be bench policemen for Myschkov. I would guess it's going to be Kate's because towards loves paling and he's a center. They just re-sign Garden Hathaway a year early, and he's a key part of the penalty kill. I don't think they want to scratch Brink unless he has a bad camp because he's a key guy they're trying to develop. And then everybody else in the top nine is either highly paid or Myschkov. Yeah, it's a whole bunch of guys that we've made long-term commitments today, or it's Tyson Forrester, who they think is a first-line player event, you know? Like, it's not going to happen. So that's that third line for Forrester, I guess, is an highly paid yet. I suspect he will be soon enough. I bet you in like a year he is. I'm just looking at like the way this thing could have got to range. It was funny that you mentioned Joel Faraby, just because I'm like, yeah, he's another one. Like that third line is going to be real interesting. Yeah, like it's going to probably be at some point when they normalize the lines, like Faraby, Lawton, Brink? Like, that's an interesting line to me. I don't know how much Faraby and Brink showed some real capital last year a time. They did. I really liked them together at different points and Lawton's just kind of the last remaining center, unless we're going to do it with Kate's or move up Pailing, but they really like that fourth line comment. I don't know. The bottom six while I like, yeah, Maffey Mitchkoff is what matters. That's all that matters. The bottom six is just going to be interesting. I think this year, and I guess this is what we're really getting into with one minute left in the show. I think this year is low key going to be very interesting because to me, number one, even beyond Mitchkoff, there's a lot of interesting stories with the individual players. But the real interesting story about this is last year, the flyers dramatically exceeded most of our expectations. This year, they have a chance to prove that that wasn't bullshit. And I don't know, like, there is a world where they take a big old step back because, you know what, in the second half of the year, when they didn't have Carter Hart, and they didn't have Sean Walker after the trade deadline, and they didn't have one sea caliber Sean Gatorier, they weren't very good. They were not very good. They were exactly the team we expected to get from game one. And there is a world where from game one of this year through the rest of the year, they are that team. They are second half flyers, and they are not in the mix, and they have a top 10 pick in the draft. There's also a world where, guys like, you know, Ivan Vanotoff steps up and is at least solid. He's fine. Jamie Drysdale takes a big step, and then he turns into what Sean Walker was more or less last year. A couple of the young ish veterans take big steps where Mave Mitchkop has a huge impact on everything. And all of this, you know, them playing down, he ain't going to be that good. It ends up all being BS and he is that good. Suddenly, this team could enter next off season. And Danny's like, yeah, maybe I have to accelerate this timeline because we made the playoffs. And Mave Mitchkop already looks like a top 30 at a jump point. And in three years, we're going to be paying him $10 million. So we need to do this now. And this could really go either way. And I think it makes the season legitimately interesting. You've mentioned this, like, there's that world where they get off to a slow start, and this team is just like, we're not listening to this coaching anymore. Yeah, like, I hope that doesn't happen because it's just happened so many freaking times. I'm sick of it. But John Tortorilla ain't easy to play for. And if the vibes aren't exactly the culture they're trying to build, I don't know what other what other choices it goes back to. And I was actually having a conversation with someone, I forget who it was, in the media room a couple of days ago about we were relitigating the Ron hex stall era. And the point that I made, because we were talking about how, you know, obviously in retrospect, Hex still made a lot of mistakes. But the reason why he was let go ultimately, when he was let go is because he had rubbed so many people the wrong way in the organization. And it was more of a personality thing than we're firing you because we think you've actually done a terrible job at building the team and stockpiling the the organization with prospects. And the point I made was that what really killed hex stall was everyone was willing to deal everyone in the organization was willing to deal with the fact that they weren't happy and they kind of were miserable at their jobs when they thought the team was winning. It was like, okay, the trade off is, yeah, he's kind of a dictator and really annoying in a lot of ways. But the team is going to be good. So we'll deal with it. And then once the team wasn't good, then everybody kind of stood around and looked at each other and we're like, why are we putting up with this crap? We're miserable and we stink. Yeah, this is ridiculous. And you do wonder with torts, could that happen if they get off to a bad start in the first two months? Does every like everyone deals with them? Because like, well, he's a great coach. If suddenly he doesn't look like a great coach, does everybody just say, well, like, we don't have to listen to this guy? Let's hit those super chats. All right, we look like we have three today. The first one from Patrick, apologize if discussed, but didn't Colesov sign before we had an inkling of fadotov coming over. Wouldn't that be the issue? He should still be here though, but frustrating for him. Well, it is something true and it's not. So if you're going back through the timeline, Colesov signed in the summer of 2023. I believe he signed after the fadotov, the initial fadotov thing, you know, because that was, that was what two years before? Yeah. Yes. So he did not, when he signed that contract, no, he did not think that fadotov was going to, you know, have a, was going to potentially block him. The flip side of that though is he also signed that contract before he knew if Carter Hart was going to, that's the, there's more of a path now than there was. Yes. Yes. For this year, he might be blocked, but you've told me, you kind of think like, had the goalie situation played out the way we thought it was going to a few months ago. Yeah. This year, it's Airston of fadotov. And next year, it might be three guys all fighting. Yeah. Which I think was their plan. Yeah. Like, yeah, if Airston comes out and like, he's getting hesitant to vote. Sure. And Breair pointed that out yesterday. He basically said, look, yeah. He wasn't going to start out the year in the, in the AHL, but third and fourth goalies play a lot because injuries happen. He was going to get an opportunity to play in the NHL. Even if it wasn't day one, it might have been day 40. This is the fliers. He might have started day one. What, what, what are both goalies not going to get hurt and training camp? Why wouldn't that happen? Let's go to Linden 49 here. This is a, as always, thanks guys. Thank you, Linden. Always appreciate you dropping in. And JH says 1 p.m. is dead long at 4 p.m. Hail to 4 p.m. King. But, but seriously, I do appreciate everyone. Second with us through the time change. It just is something that logistically it had to happen if you want me to cover practice and do the daily shot. Trust me. If there was a way to avoid this, I would. Thank you all for listening. Thank you for hanging out. If you haven't already, you got to hit that subscribe button. Follow us right here on YouTube. Set those reminder bells so you never miss our four o'clock store times. Follow us on Twitter @PHLY_FLYERS and follow the podcast wherever you get those. Just search. PHLY flyers. All right. We'll see you tomorrow. My name's Bill Matz. That's Charlie O'Connor. You stay loose and sexy, Philly. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [BLANK_AUDIO]