(upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Hey everybody, how you doing? - Well, that's good. Welcome to PHLY Flyers. My name is Bill Matts. I'm your director of fun and games for the afternoon. Joining me today on what is... - Rookie camp. - Rookie camp eve. - Rookie camp eve of the return of sort of flyers. - I was just, it's like rookie camps here, they've reported. - Yes, but there's no one ice. So this is like back to school eve for you. - Yeah, pretty much. - It is Philadelphia's number one hockey beat writer, Charlie O'Connor. So you have that like, there's Sunday scaries today, Charlie, are you excited? How you feeling? - It'll hit tonight. - It'll hit tonight. - It'll hit tonight. I mean, you've already been doing some work, you published this morning, the roster and the rookie camp schedule and all that and your little breakdown of that. Plus an article, an article from a diehard, a member of the Discord. And I tweeted this out earlier. Man, it's been like almost a decade and I don't know if I've ever been more proud of you. Getting the audience to do your work. See how great it is? - Oh yeah. - It's so wonderful. Now you know why I love the mailbags. Of course you edited it and like did a bunch of work and you had other work to do. - It was his work. - Yeah, yes, of course. But isn't it nice? Look, that was an information dense article. - We haven't read it. Check it out. AllPHLY.com signed up to be a diehard to read it. It was diehard only, right? - Daniel Bonpager. - Yes. - Danny Beans in our Discord. - Danny Beans. Thank you very much, Danny Beans, for just creating a little content for us. We'll probably discuss that article Thursday or Friday this week. But today it is all about the rooks. It's all about these rookies here, Charlie. I am, I wasn't sure 'cause we talked the other day like, yeah, how you feeling, you know? Off season while we all love the flyers and we love, these are dream jobs. I will never confuse what I do with like work, say all the time, my dad, heavy equipment mechanic for, you know, 140 years or whatever. My mom, elementary school teacher, I have seen people who actually work. I don't. Yeah, I'll never could, but you do anything for money, you have to do it. Like that's where you're, it's sort of a job. And, you know, the off season's pretty fun. Show here from one to two every day and then I'm done. Obviously there's prep work that goes in, the planning of each show, yes. But then like I'm listening to flyers daily today and they have the TV and radio play-by-play guys on with JJ and they're talking about their summers winding down. I was like, oh man, it is, it's here, but I'm excited. And why I'm excited, Charlie, is no matter what, the colosov stuff, all the nonsense we've been through, I think Mitch Gav is here. He is. He's actually here. And that's why I want to pick up today. Because honestly, I wanted to talk about this yesterday, but we were having too much fun asking Charlie what? You're just getting an enormous kick out of this. Like this, this Twitter thing is no big deal. It is no big deal. And you just get the biggest kick out of it. I honestly, what entertains me is that you entertain these, you respond to every, like you are a great Twitter follower, what a great person to comment at, because you respond to so many people. I ignore so many people on Twitter and I clearly don't have the following you do because I don't do that. But like we were just having a little fun asking why Charlie hates Matt and me, Mitch Gav so much. And I kind of forgot to get to the, honestly, where I wanted to get to in that conversation. But luckily we have a daily show. So I can just do it today. - There you go. - So something I wanted the Mitch Gav discussion to lead into yesterday, I think that I missed a little bit. I saw some people take objection to that piece of the flare interview where you talk to him about each of the prospects. And obviously number one of the four words and number one overall, Matt fame Mitch Gav. And he said something along the lines of, there will be times towards does things to Mitch Gav, whether it's coaching, bench or whatever, that it's gonna irk fans, right? And I think fans take that so much as, ah, he's trying to turn him into Garnet half the way. And like, that's not what's being said here. And that's kind of what kicked off that whole Twitter discussion is like, you can label him whatever you want. You wanna call him very good. You wanna call him elite for his age in the case, whatever. He's not a finished product. And for him to meet his ceiling, he has to improve on certain things. Some of those things are going to be fun, becoming even more dynamic in the offensive zone, figuring out the NHL defense so that he can exploit it as an offensive wizard that we expect him to be. Some of those things are not going to be fun, where you need to be on the counter rush in terms of your neutral zone alignment, your assignments, how to defend your point guy, where you're supposed to go to get the out, all that little stuff that just goes into playing a system and playing in the best league in the world. That's good though. Like having Mitch Cobb know and do all those things is great. And Brent Flair pointed out like specific issues that maybe he was able, that Mitch Cobb was maybe able to get away with in the KHL, because especially on a team like Sochi, where it's like him, everyone else. - Yeah, I'm thinking of the, I'm thinking of the money ball, the money ball goes like, - Yeah, there's the good team. - There's the good team, there's the bad team, the players are crap, and then there's us. - Especially on Sochi, where it's like, this is a minor league team, basically. But they're just in the KHL because the good teams need someone to play. - Yeah, he's somebody to beat up on. - Yeah, like, he's able to extend a shift to minutes because who's telling him no? He's able to just hang out in the neutral zone 'cause who's telling him no? In the NHL, you simply cannot cherry pick like that. - Not to that degree. - Not to that degree. But like, yes, is he going to be able to quote unquote cheat? - Absolutely, 'cause Travis Connector does it all time. - That's the offense. - The offense is to borrow a phrase from the AV coaching staff. When the puck is at one of those mesh points, the weak side winger takes off in hopes of getting an outlet pace. - Right, you're stretching the defense. - That is the acceptable cheating. - Yeah, you're stretching the neutral zone for a check and you're basically forcing them to account for the fact that someone is trying to get behind you and hopefully that opens things up for everybody if it's done right. And the reason that they started doing that last year, John Tour de Rela told us it's where we got the mad Russian nickname from, like that's where it came from. Was John Tour de Rela saying, well, pretty soon we're going to have the mad Russian here and we want to, you know, kind of exploit what he does well. He's going to be able to do that. It's just like when the other team has possession of the puck in your defensive zone, you can't be behind the defense just hanging out. And you can't just extend a shift two minutes 'cause you feel like it 'cause this is the NHL. Now you're going to be burned for three more shifts. Like it's really hard. And these are things he had problems with Kevin Hayes doing. It's a problem that any coach in the NHL, you could have the NHL version of Mike McDaniel. - I think Rob Brynamer would be annoyed by that like that. - Yes, the most progressive coaches in the league. You could have the NHL version of Mike McDaniel who is blazed off his ass and dancing to the arena music at stoppages. If you were to take a two minute shift or just hang out in the neutral zone and not even pretend to defend, the coach would be upset by that. You would be coached not to do that. And that's really what Brent Flair is talking about. Now, is there little stuff that's going to annoy us 'cause it's John Tortorella? Yeah, he's going to push buttons 'cause that's what he does. But in all, these are good things. These are turning Matt Vaymichkov into the best possible player he can be. And to be annoyed, like, I just saw examples, like, well, what if they took Alex Ovechkin's aggressiveness away, then we wouldn't have the greatest goal score ever. It's like, but we're not doing that. It's very clear, by the way, that they changed the offense last year that they still want, yeah, man, you see that puck? And we have a chance to win a battle and get it out of the zone. You take off and hope to get that out that pass. Absolutely. We're not taking away as aggressiveness. It's just a little things that will lead to losing in the NHL. You're trying to take away from a young player before he develops bad habits. It's one of the reasons they're so excited he's here at this age and not at 22 because now you can actually coach that stuff out of him before it has a chance to really set in. And here's the point. This really gets to the heart of the debate I had on Twitter two days ago, two days ago and yesterday 'cause it bled into yesterday as well. You mentioned Alexander Ovechkin. That's a really good player to bring up and I'll tell you why. Because one of the reasons why Washington did not have to really put any reins on Ovechkin is because he showed up and his rookie year scored 52 goals and 106 points. If Muffet Mitchkoff in the first two months of the year is scoring at a point-per-game pace and is at a 50-goal pace, yeah, you know what? Torts, you probably should just let him do what he does. And if he does that, that will be amazing. And that will be the best-case scenario and we will be thrilled. But I am not ready yet to say that Mitchkoff is gonna show up and dominate to the degree that Alex Ovechkin is. While I get the sense that there are people on Twitter who very much are expecting him to show up and dominate to that degree. So for them, because they're already assuming that well, Mitchkoff's gonna show up and be great immediately. And the idea of changing anything about him is stupid because he's already great and he's gonna be great and I just know. And if you're that confident, then sure, you're gonna think that even the hint that the Flyers are gonna change anything about a player that you already view as perfect, essentially, is stupid. I totally understand why that would be your thought process. My view is that I do not know if Muffet Mitchkoff was gonna show up and be incredible right off the bat. In fact, if I were to bet, I would bet he is not gonna show up and be Alexander Ovechkin in his first season. If he is, then, yes, if he's scoring a goal a game and John Torrella benches him because he turned a 40 second shift into a 60 second shift, yes, that will be nuts. But if he is hovering at half point per game pace and showing flashes, but there are edges to his game that need to be rounded off and towards his side is gonna bend you in the third period because Mitchkoff did something stupid. I don't think that's unreasonable because I want the best version of Mitchkoff. If Mitchkoff shows up in year one and is already the best version of Mitchkoff and is already one of the 10 best players in hockey and the most optimistic people on Twitter are correct that he's just that good, then yeah, let's not go crazy nitpicking. But I don't think it's reasonable to expect that he's gonna be Ovechkin right off the jump. And if he's not, he's gonna be in need of some work to hopefully get into a point where he is best case scenario Ovechkin. Forget the total number of goals. Alex Ovechkin, hockey reference is having a hell of a time loading right now. But in his rookie year, Ove, in his first 15 games had five two goal games. - That's nuts. - A third of his first month in the league. - Yeah, if Mitchkoff gets off to that start then the idea of remedial towards that. - Yeah, who cares? - Yeah, that's nuts. Fire the coach and make Matt say the coach. Like he's clearly better than smarter than everyone in the organization. And also, all right, maybe not bedored. But the other teams that passed Ovechkin, those organizations should fire everyone too. - They should, yes. - Oh, that's the way it plays out, yeah. - If that's the way it plays out, so many people should lose jobs that it's almost unfathomable. Like, and maybe it happens. Maybe it happens. But like you said, probably not because this is the greatest goal score of all time. If not for his rookie year being locked out, a half season lockout in 2013 and two COVID years, he'd already have Gretzky's record. He'd be just piling on right now or chilling back in Russia. Like one of those two things would be happening. If not for, like we're talking about one of the, he's the greatest at this single thing ever. - Yeah, exactly. - And maybe we're lucky. - Hey, if he's that good, then the idea of torts messing with him, I would agree, is batshit. But I am operating in this opposite, he's probably not going to be that good right off the jump. And again, part of this just goes into the fact, and this is what I was saying on Twitter yesterday, is that this is not a scenario where Mafé Mitchkoff is coming over after finishing a season where at age 19 in the KHL, he scored 70 points in 50 games, where he was one of the true best players in the KHL. He was very good. He was very good, especially for his age, he was great. And even without the age factor, he was very good. And you could, I guess, argue that he was close to elite if you're accounting for the fact that wasn't on a great team, didn't have great line mates, things like that, fair, fair. You can make that case. I don't think that is a slam dunk, that is one of those things you can debate on a show like this. But sure, if you want to give him, you know, say, all right, well, weight his numbers a little higher because his line mates stunk and because his team's not fair, but we can debate that. My point is, is that he wasn't one of the best, best players in the KHL. And the best, best players in the KHL are not necessarily great NHL players. Like, I look at the KHL numbers. The fourth leading scorer in the KHL, who scored 77 points in 66 games, both more points and a higher point per game rate than Mafé Mitchkoff last year in the same league, was Jordan Wheel. - I haven't been second, was there guys better than him? - I have him on elite prospects at four. - Okay. - Behind Nikita Gusev, Reed Boucher, and Nikolai Goldovin. Jordan Wheel was fourth with 77 points. - Either way, yes. - We're talking about Jordan Wheel. - We're talking about Jordan Wheel. - We all saw it saw Jordan Wheel. Okay, we know Jordan Wheel is not a great NHL player. And Mafé Mitchkoff, at least by the Raw scoring totals, did not outplay Jordan Wheel. That's what I'm saying when I say that for Mitchkoff to be as good as we hope he's gonna be, it's not like we can just take this version of Mitchkoff, bring him over to the NHL, and he's definitely going to be the best player in the NHL. Because if he wasn't the best player in the KHL, and players who scored more than him washed out of the NHL, he's gonna probably need some development. And I think development will help him get there. I am optimistic that Mafé Mitchkoff is ultimately going to be a really, really good NHL player. I'm just not ready to say he's a really, really good NHL player, yet based on what he's done in an inferior league, where he wasn't one of the three best players in an inferior league. - I always thought Jordan Wheel had a 25, 30 goal, just one that would get him one good overpaid four-year contract. - I enjoyed covering him, really nice guy. Very, actually, pretty smart. I had some really interesting off-the-record conversations with him about the world. Good dude. And I like the skill set, but it just never really worked out for him to be a legitimate top nine NHL four. - Yeah, I always thought he had just one great year in him that would get him overpaid for the next four. And turns out he had that year in the KHL. And that's something we touched on yesterday too. The KHL is not exactly, yeah, it's one of the top leagues in the world. You want to call it second, you want to call it third, whatever. It's not what you think it was a few years ago, because there's like no Finns, no Swedes, a lot of foreign players afraid to go, like 'cause, you know, it's a country at war. It's a week early. It is a bit of a different league than the league we, oh man, the KHL, that's almost the NHL. Sort of. Yes and no, it's a really good pro league. It's a very good pro league. It is one of the best leagues in the world, but it's not the high-level league that it was a few years ago. - Yeah, it's not the league where when Vegas got a shapacha to come over, we all said, oh man, they might have their one seed because he's a veteran who's a great KHL player and the KHL isn't that far below the NHL because they're throwing these massive contracts at guys to bring him over here. It is weaker. And again, I'm not saying I don't think Mitch Koff is gonna be good. I'm not saying I don't think Mitch Koff is gonna be great. I'm not saying Mitch Koff isn't gonna be a superstar. I'm just saying, don't go into this convinced that he's going to be that immediately or that he's even definitely gonna be that. There is a high likelihood he's gonna be very good. It's just not a certainty. That's all I was saying. - I will, go ahead and think it. But like, it's not gonna be the consensus opinion. - Yeah, it's not. - And maybe you end up being right and like we talked about yesterday. - That's great. - If that's the most important thing in the world to you, congratulations, you can throw yourself a parade. - Yeah. - But it's, look, I'm so freaking hopeful. But that is like acknowledging because I just wouldn't need it. Like I need this to be true because if it's not, we are screwed. Like if this isn't true and I'm not saying like right away 'cause it's, they were like on flyers daily today. They were doing the kind of what people were accusing you of throwing the cold water a little bit. And I don't think that's what you're doing. You're just stating your opinion. - But it's like, Connor Bedard was supposed to be the guy. He was all right last year. - Yeah, good year. He was okay, good year. He was fine. He won the cold air. - Won the cold. - But it wasn't like, it wasn't the- - It wasn't the old "Vestkin Rookie" year. - Yeah. - Like, "Vestkin and Crosby" both broke a hundred points. - We're two of the best players in the league immediately. Like Connor Bedard was very good. No one would confuse him with Nathan McKinnon or like Connor McDavid. Like that's not who he was yet. Maybe that's not who Mitch Covid. - Maybe it is. - Yeah. - But I'd be surprised. It's gonna take a little time. And honestly, this is the period where I'm cool with door to relic coaching him. - Yeah, exactly. - Exactly. - Down the line when they're trying to win games? - I don't know. I don't know if door to relic is that guy. He hasn't been in a long time. - I don't think he's gonna be here. - Like when they turn off. - I don't honestly think like you look at his age, you look at his contract, you look at how it typically ends with him, probably not. And that's good. - I think that's part of the plan. - Yeah, like I think it's part of the plan. - It's all part of the plan. - It did not be the coach when this team is doing that thing a couple of years from now. But for right now, I actually like to order Ella in this role because if you mix what we believe to be superstar potential with getting all those little things sorted out, you have an excellent player. - Yeah, I made the case in that Twitter conversation of the distinction between Austin Matthews. You two guys taking the same draft. Austin Matthews and Patrick Lining. Both guys came in. I mean, Austin Matthews was the consensus number one, but they were scattered people saying, well, my name might be better. It was real, real good in the end. The world juniors were Finland. You know, it was this idea of, well, man, he could be a game-changing goalscore. Patrick Lining obviously had an interesting career. You know, he went in the in the player assistance program. He's missed a lot of time due to injury, but you are correct in saying that when he plays, he tends to score a lot. - Scores a lot of goals. - Scores a lot of goals. Austin Matthews obviously also scores a lot of goals. The big difference between the two players, aside from the injury, set the injuries aside. Just talk about who they are when they play. Austin Matthews scores a ton of goals and also the Maple Leafs completely destroy the opposition from a shot and chance at a financial standpoint when he's on the ice. He gets Salke votes. That is Austin Matthews. - Second or third in Salke. - He gets Salke votes. - Yeah. - Patrick Lining only scores. That's all he does. He is a liability otherwise. He scores a ton of points and he's valuable because he scores goals and he scores points and he's an offensive wizard. If being harder on Mitch Koff this year, and obviously Mitch Koff is in the center like Matthews is like, get that. But if being harder on Mitch Koff this year gets him closer to the Matthews where he didn't have to sacrifice offense but he became better as a two-way player and now he's just one of the four or five best players in the world period. If it gets him closer to that versus just being a guy who only scores and that's it like line A, yeah. Push Mitch Koff a little bit this year. If it makes him a 99 player by NHL rating three years down the road versus a 92. - Perfect. That is a perfect way to put it. It's ringing every possible thing out. - Yes. - Like let's get him to the ceiling. - Yes. - Let's break through the ceiling and make him better than we even thought. Like what if he's not just a willing defender but like decent at it. You know, like look at what has happened, look at what has happened with Travis Connectney where you added just a little bit of defense and guess what it's created, more offense. Like the transition game which is obviously the transition game which is obviously what Mitch Koff is going to excel at, especially early, if he has more transition opportunities because there's defensive plays being made, that's going to lead to more goals and assists. Like it just is. - And no one wants Mitch Koff to become a defensive specialist. - No, no. - No one wants that. And the Flyers don't want it. John Torturella as bonkers as he is definitely does not want that. - And that's what gets me to like that more good frost point. It's like, yeah man, he's really worked on all those little parts of his game and he's coming around. He's like, cool man, he needs a score. Like he knows what players need to do to be successful. And I don't think he has this, I think there's this misconception of John Torturella where it's like, he wants everybody to be this cookie cutter kind of two way hard-nosed player. And it's like, yes, he does want you up top blocking shots no matter who you are. But also if you were that type of player, if the other guy, if you're the opposite winger blocks a shot, he wants you at the red line already looking for that pass. Like, and that's the difference, I think in perception versus reality. - And I think too, and this just speaks to the changes he made is because I think there probably was a time when he was that stereo type. When he was, when it was pre-lock out Tampa Bay when he battled with the Cavalier. Like, yeah, I think that towards probably was more in line with the stereotype. The guy I go back to with towards why I do think this can work and there's part of me that's worried that they're gonna clash and it's gonna be a problem. 'Cause John Torturella is John Torturella. And Mafé Mitchkoff is a very headstrong, confident person who potentially might not take well to criticism, we shall say. I am a bit concerned, I am not gonna stop being concerned until these guys are buddy, buddy playing golf together and then it's like, okay, cool, you guys are great. That said, I do think, where was I going with this? Sorry. - They're the type of coach Torturella was first now. - Right, the guy who always, who I come back to is Artemi Panera. He did not put the shackles on Artemi Panera in Columbus. Like, not even a little bit. He let Artemi Panera be Artemi Panera. And I remember one quote the Torturella had about Panera and where he basically said that one thing about Panera and that I will always remember, and this speaks very much to the shift thing. I've never seen a player be that effective, tired. You know, where it'll be 30 seconds into a shift and I'll be standing on the bench thinking, oh God, he should be getting off the ice. And then it'll be 40 seconds into a shift and Panera will win a race to a loose putt going on a breakaway and score. And Torturella'll just be like, all right, well, I guess he just can do it. He's just one of those guys. And I think if Mitchkoff proves to be one of those guys, he's gonna get the longer leash. He's gonna earn it. - I have to get to these reads, but I want to come back to that for a second. First off, oh man. ♪ 1-800-588-2300 Empire ♪ - Today. - I love doing the Empire jingle. And I love getting to do the reads for Empire because with Empire today, you get shop at home convenience, the right product for your needs, quick and professional installation and a price match guarantee. Empire today is clearly the best place to get new flooring. So of course, they have copycats, but those copycats can't beat Empire today on quality, service, speed. So they advertise low quality products that Empire simply won't carry. 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And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com/allcity. Just go to indeed.com/allcity right now and support our show by saying you heard about indeed on this podcast, indeed.com/allcity terms and conditions apply, need to hire, you need indeed. The work ethic thing is something I wanted to hit on and the idea that he might be like an Artemi Panarin and able to extend the shift. So I think the most exciting thing I saw today when like the camp roster gets announced, obviously, the big headline, no Colosov, kind of knew that. Yeah, I saw it coming. But it was confirmed. But the most exciting thing I saw is Mavé Mishkov listed at 510190. On Elite Prospects, he's listed at 176. I saw him on Sochi's roster last year, listed at 172. Now he's 190. And if that's like the way we saw him lifting, man, that's all quads and thighs. Yeah, he's going to be effective tired. He's going to be able to do that stuff, maybe get a little faster as well. I think the work ethic and drive. And yeah, he's considered a headstrong kind of guy, much like the coach. If I had to guess, I feel like they are going to get along more than they are going to clash. I assume that they are going to clash. And like I've said before, I kind of think the coach has to push buttons a little. Yeah, great. Just to preserve credibility in the locker room. And cause he's John Tortorella. He needs to assert his dominance, obviously. Yeah, there's an ego on the list of this. What he does is he's John freaking Tortorella. We know how he's going to act. But if I had to put money on it, I think they are going to get along better than they don't. Get along swimmingly. Maybe not swimmingly, but in like a year or two, maybe. But right away, I think, yeah, there's probably going to be some bumps because there are with everybody. But I think it's actually going to be a pretty solid relationship because they both are coming from the same place. Just win, baby. Like that's, that's true. They are. It's true. That's who they are. It's very true. I was, I was happy to see that he, that the fly, cause the fliers knew exactly what they were doing by putting 190 on that roster sheet. Because everyone knows that one of the things about Mitch Kopp is, oh, he's a little small. The skeptics say that. There are scouting skeptics. You know, Corey Promen says it in every single thing. Corey, like I think Corey loves Mitch Kopp as a player, but he's one of the people who constantly mentions, well, he's small and he's not a great skater for his, for, you know, he's not an elite skater. And usually small guys have to be elite skaters. Suddenly he's 190. I mean, yeah, he's, 510 might be a bit of a stretch. Might be a little on the shorter side. At least he looks it when you're, you're standing near him. But the guy we interviewed at, uh, not at camp, but after he signed the contract, the guy they introduced with Danny and the, uh, and the translator, you could tell he was beefy. He looks like a little tank, man. Like, yes, five, 10, 190. No, you probably couldn't get by at that size unless you were blazing fast. Like when we were kids. No, because the league is ruled by Stevens and Lindross and Hatcher and all these gigantic maniacs who were 230 pounds. But that's not the league anymore. Like 215 now is gigantic compared to what it used to be. 190 is 510, 190 is a completely acceptable NHL size. Oh, 100%. Do you think he's actually 190 or there just, or there beefing him up a little bit. These are Alan Iverson listed as six feet tall. When it's like, I've met him. I don't know if I'm six feet tall and he ain't as tall as me. I'm, I'm skeptical of the 510. Okay. So I, I think if they were going to put 190 on there, he must have weighed in at some point at 190. Like, I always think of, did they get him right after, did they get him right after he had a cheesesteak? Maybe. I think they were going the other way with it. I think Zachary and Aldo just wanted to be listed at 169 'cause he thought it was fun and he would. Like, but like there's, there's no way. Like he was bigger than, I don't know how much bigger, like 175, 180 maybe, but like he was listed at 169. I was like, no, you're not guy. Like no, you're, I just saw you knock somebody out. Like there's no way you put that much weight behind a punch at 170. So we'll see, but I was, that was the most exciting thing I saw on that. And I think that's, you know, it's going to be, we are going to talk about Matt Vain-Mishkov every day for the rest of the season, generally. - Probably. - Probably. - Probably at least come up once on every show. - You would think, right? - Yeah. - We have to do this at least today and, you know, next week when he doesn't show up for main camp, but the Colosov thing, not listed, not expected to be there, he ain't coming. This is just something I thought of while reading the Colosov bit in your rookie camp piece that you put out this morning. Just popped in my head. - Okay. - Do you think there's a possibility if Colosov signs a contract in the KHL or wherever that it could work against the flyers in the Johansson case if they don't seek a termination? This is my thinking here. Like, they're seeking to terminate Ryan Johansson's contract in his mind, in his agent and the PA's argument for being injured. You can't terminate a guy for being injured, you can't buy him out, like, that's it. That's not a material breach unless you can prove he ain't actually injured and he never really planned on fulfilling the final year of his contract. But then they're not looking to terminate the contract of a player who is legitimately in breach of his contract by signing a different contract. Like, do you think that could somehow be used against the flyers as a way of saying they don't care about honor and contracts? They just don't want to pay Ryan Johansson. This is just something that popped in my head. I wanted to get your thoughts on it. - Well... - I know you're not a lawyer. - So, I think my answer is I could see the NHLPA or especially the agent being fixated on that and trying to make that argument. I don't think it's a good argument. - Okay. - And the reason why I don't think it's a good argument is because the team has the right to choose whether they want to cite a material breach or not. - All right. - Like, they have every right to decide whether they want to say that was a material breach. Like, they're the ones paying the contract. They're the ones you can say, well, yeah, we don't think that's a material breach because we want this guy in our organization. We think that's a material breach 'cause we don't want this guy in our organization. Like, I understand what you're getting at in terms of like, you're pointing out hypocrisy. - He is actually breaching his contract. - My point is that I don't think it's legally relevant. - Okay. - Because the team has every right to decide what constitutes a material breach or not. - All right. - It's their contract. - Fair enough. I just wanted to get your, it was just, I was like, hmm, the guy who's definitely in breach of his contract. - It just, it seems like something that it plays better. It would play better on Twitter than it would actually in a court of law. - Okay. - Yeah, like neither of us are lawyers. I have no idea. It was just something I thought. - 'Cause again, the difference is like say, well, what's the difference? And the flyers or the NHL would just say, the difference is, yes, you are correct that the flyers, if they wanted to, could cite a material breach and terminate the Coleslaw contract. They don't want to. They do not have, they are under no obligation to cite a material breach to terminate the contract. Just like they are under no obligation to cite a material breach and terminate the Johansson contract. It's just that they have the right to do it in both situations and in one instance, they chose to. - All right. Fair enough. All right. So the camp roster comes out today. We see everyone who's gonna be there. The heights and weights, obviously. That was a lot of fun. Just anything different about the schedule or anything else this year, anything about the roster outside of Coleslaw's absence stand out. Like, was there anything that you were like, oh, that's different. - I was a little surprised that I think it was three guys. Actually, no, four guys. Four guys who did not come to development camp or at rookie camp. Last year, so this would have been the first year of the Danny Breair regime. So we're looking at like, what are the new standards? 'Cause every regime is gonna have different standards when it comes to rookie camp versus development camp who gets a pass on development camp, who gets a pass on rookie camp. So you can't really go back further than 2023 to figure out who has to do this and who doesn't. In 2023, last year, the first Danny Breair Keith Jones rookie camp and development camp. There was not a single player at rookie camp that was not a development camp. Now, obviously, there were some players that went to development camp that didn't go to rookie camp because no college players can go to rookie camp. They all can do development camp. But there was no one that showed up to rookie camp that wasn't at dev camp. This year, there are four guys who were not a development camp that are gonna be a rookie camp. We have, let me just make sure I have them all before I start naming them. We have Elliot DeNoie, we have Samu to Amala, we have Emile Andre, and we have L.J. Grands. So four guys who were not a development camp are gonna be at rookie camp. I wasn't sure if they were gonna make guys who presumably aged out of development camp do rookie camp. I, it's gonna be a question I plan to ask Danny Breair. I'm hoping we get him tomorrow for the first day camp. Obviously, Kolosov will be a major topic conversation. People will, of course, wanna hear about Mitch Koff too. But I wanna ask if this was a thing where the flyers are mandating these guys do rookie camp or if these four guys, for different reasons, all chose to, because all four of these guys have something to prove. - They all, oh. - Zade Wisdom was the other one. - Zade Wisdom. - Zade Wisdom too. - And that's, it's an interesting group. Like, Samu to Amala, I think you put like, yeah, he just wants to get a jump on it. And the longer you get eyes on him, if he's impressive, that's like, oh man, we've been impressed by him. - I know, actually, as you know what it is, to Amala was a development camp, I believe. I'd have to go back through. I have this all in my article now, I'm just having to say, is Wisdom was the one who definitely has not a development camp. - And Wisdom is a guy, along with De Noye, who it's like, man, how much longer are they gonna be with the organization if they don't really impress? - Right. - Like, especially Zade Wisdom, he had that awesome start to his AHL career when the OHL wasn't playing and he got to be an underager in the AHL and he scored like 10 goals in the first 20 games or something, and then completely fell off the map, spent some time in the ECHL last year. Like, he is looking to get his career back on track. Elliot De Noye, while not maybe the precipitous fall of Wisdom is also like, yeah, man, you went from 23 goals to nine. You were a guy who was maybe gonna make the team to may not be getting resigned whenever your contract sucks. Like, may not be part of the future a little bit. - Exactly. - He wants eyes on him. Graz is one of the first guys I wanted to talk about 'cause we haven't spent much time on him this offseason. Well, Graz is, Graz is especially interesting for one very, very big reason. What's that? - You know who his agent is? - Really. - Good old Kurt Overheart. - Really? - Yup. - That is interesting. That's very interesting that I guess it's like, yeah, man, I'm coming to rookie camp 'cause I'm gonna show you I'm a good soldier. (laughing) - I'm not part of this. - Don't let me in as amazing as this. But when you look at the organizational depth chart at defense, while I often say like, I'm not especially impressed by this defense, they do have some pretty good players. - Yeah. - Like from the top of the NHL level to their first few alternates. - They had a lot of NHL caliber. - NHL, that's a great way to put NHL caliber guys. Like they clearly like Adam's getting a lot. Ronnie Atter, he's in there. - Like he's not, he's not a rookie camp, but he's gonna be in the mixing right here camp. - He's in the mix and you would think he's gonna be one of the first call-ups. Like they obviously love Hunter McDonald. - They love Hunter McDonald. - Emil Andre made the team last year. - Emil Andre, and then you look at even like a veteran, like Louis Belpedio, got NHL time-lanched. - Not wrong. - Despite all these dudes on the depth chart be like, where is Heljay Grands in the like minds of the decision makers, does he factor in it all? - It's a good point. - Coming to rookie camp is a good way to show like one, yeah, don't let me in this, I'm a good soldier. And two, like I said about two Amala, like if you wanna make an impression, if you impress for a week before everyone else shows up, like that will stick in their minds. - It will. - Two Amala is a perfect example, where he was a guy who, you know, I outlined a story I'm working on for Die Hearts. It's diving deeper into what we know about rookie camp. But in this outline, I want to talk about this in the story, essentially to Amala, last camp, came in with negative momentum. He had a terrible draft plus two season. It was awful. Like he was tearing up when he's talking to Brent Flair. He was a mess. He flamed out at an Ole Yokedin's team over in Europe. It was a disaster. He has a solid development camp where he showed a little bit, but you know, whatever, this is a guy who's coming off two straight, poor developmental years, take it with a grain of salt. He showed up to rookie camp. It was real good. And then at main camp, he continued to be real good. And suddenly, he was able to completely turn the narrative of his prospect status, and then parlay that into a really, really good first season with the Lehigh Valley Fandoms. Now, I would say he's the top 10 prospect in the organization. The L.A. De Noye has the same opportunity. Now, last year, it was the reverse of that. He came in with all the momentum, all the hype, and then he ended up with negative momentum. If he comes in, De Noye, and has the rookie camp this year, we expected him to have last year, he could put himself in the two-em-all spot where he ends up staying for the entirety of camp and makes them think, you know, maybe last year was just a fluke. Maybe this is the real De Noye. This is the guy from two years ago who we were so excited about. This is an opportunity for him. It's an opportunity for him to take a big first step towards erasing the disastrous previous season that he had. - I, another guy whose name that I just almost forgot was a part of the organization that showed up on the, showed up on the rookie list. Alexis Gendron. - And-- - Marty Gendron's kid. - Yeah. - Martin Gendron is a scout for the Flyers. That's why I always say Marty Gendron. - It's seventh round pick a couple of years ago, so not exactly one of the higher touted guys, but the Flyers have later round picks that they're pretty high on. Didn't make your top 20. Didn't make even the honorable mentions part of your top 20. He's at rookie camp. You tell him anything about-- - Well, because he's on an entry-level contract, they signed into an entry-level contract. So if you're on an entry-level contract and he presumably is now a pro, last year what happened with him was he started out the season playing pro because he could, he was old enough to do it. And then they made the decision, he scored some points, but they made the decision that physically he just wasn't ready. So they sent him back for an extra season in junior. So he went and played some time in juniors, I think he missed some time with injury, came back, look fine. I'm not sold on him as a guy who's gonna be able to translate it to the NHL. He might top out as a solid AHL score. I don't see a guy who is NHL caliber. He can skate, he's got speed. Absolutely has speed, has some hands, has some skill. I don't see the kind of talent that turns him into a guy who fits in an NHL top nine. That's me. There are some people, I see some people on Twitter who really like the upside of gendron. I'm not one of them, I don't see it. But hey, the great thing about these camps, the great thing about rookie camp, about main camp, is that he has just as good of an opportunity as anybody to turn heads. And if Alexi Gendron shows up and shows out, the fliers will take notice. And they showed it with somebody like Samu to Amal, who as I said, came in a last year's camp with negative momentum. Exit it last year's camp at the very, very end and turn that into a significant role with the fandoms out of the gate and then turn that into being like their top score. Yeah, it's, he did score some points, even the AHL, he played 17 games for the fandoms last year, five goals, seven points, gets sent back to the queue, 16 games in the regular season, 10 goals, 18 points. And then 15 playoff games, 11 goals, 19 points. So it's not as if he doesn't have some scoring acumen. - Right. - But he's also five nine, 176. - Yeah, he's got speed, he's got speed. So that, that is a point in his favor. If you're small, you generally have to be fast. And if you're small and you're not super fast, you got to be brilliant and incredibly skilled like Mitch office. - Outstanding. All right. The, where the hell did, where do we go? Another player I wanted to mention, J.R. Avon. I think people really liked him last year with fandoms. - Another guy who's really fast. - Not super impressive in terms of like scoring numbers. But I think people really liked him with the fandoms last year. Do you see an NHL upside with Avon? - I do. There's a lot of guys in the flyers pipeline. I don't think he made our top top 20 list. He got votes. And there are a lot of guys in the flyers pipeline who I do think will get NHL games. J.R. Avon, I think if he makes it, he's going to make it as a like Darryl Pal, Harry's owner chuck type. Like a fourth line or who brings speed and grit and just like effort for days. That's who I think he'll be. I don't think the scoring is going to translate to the NHL level. But if he refines enough of the other aspects of his game and he takes advantage of the fact that he's a really, really quick skater, he could have an NHL future, sure. - All right, we gotta take a quick time out so I can tell you, you know what I gotta tell you about. I gotta tell you to chill. - Chill. - That's right. There will be no chilling with Mavé Mishkov this year. But listen, between work, social media, the choices life throws our way, the world, maybe some of the things we saw on television last night. It's no wonder we're more worked up than ever. And I'm absolutely talking about the Phillies game. - Phillies game, yeah, definitely the Phillies game. - Coors Light celebrates rising above and choosing a chill mindset. Why not turn a reindel barbecue into a karaoke house party? Or after a tough loss, settle scores with a nice cold peace offering. Make the choice to choose chill, then reach for a Coors Light. It's mountain cold refreshment. Listen, all of our teams in this city, they drive us absolutely insane. We've been doing this a long time, Charlie, and people ain't calming down anytime soon. That's why sometimes I personally need to choose chill, and there's no better way to chill than with an ice cold Coors Light. So whether you're freaking out about a goalie not showing up, how big the top prospect is, where this team's gonna eventually end up. Well, you need to find the Blue Mountains in your fridge and enjoy a beer as cold as the Rockies, because when everything surrounding your favorite hockey team is on fire, when isn't it? Sometimes you just got to chill. Make the most out of the times you choose to chill, choose Coors Light, get Coors Light delivered straight to your door with Instacart by going to Coors Light.com/PHLYHockey, celebrate responsibly Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado, and while we're here, man, I'm telling you about some great work going on at allPHLY.com, especially in the die hard section. - Yes. - We had an actual die hard, publish a die hard article today. That's the type of opportunity possible for you on Friday, the rookie game. Guess who's coming with us? Guess who was eligible for our ticket giveaways? It was the die hard. - It was the die hard. - We're not quite sure exactly how we're gonna be doing it this year with post games, but one thing I can tell you, the number to call into post game, it's getting posted in the die hard discord. So you're gonna be able to chat with me after games, because like I've finally gotten through to Charlie. Life's way easier when the audience does the work for you. But yeah, oh, there's so many benefits to being a PHLY die hard like access to that discord, like access to all of our premium content. It's tremendous. You also get a free shirt when you sign up. Discount on events like the one we just had at tradesmen's for the Eagles opener. It was great. People got discounts on tickets to that. It's just so much stuff. Discounts on merch. So make sure you go to allPHLY.com and sign up to be a die hard. And while you're at all PHLY.com, click on that events calendar book market. We always have things coming up for die hards and just regular fans as well to attend our events calendar constantly filling up. We're gonna have some fun stuff to announce to you in the coming weeks about some events for the flyers. - Yeah. - That's right. Some flyers events that I can't quite tell you yet, but I think you're really going to enjoy. So make sure you sign up to be a die hard and check out that events calendar as well. All at allPHLY.com. All right, Chuck. Anyone else on this list? There's some other names that I thought were interesting. Matteo man, Ethan Sampson, Carter Southern. Anyone that you think stands out needs to have a big camp is a little more intriguing than we think. This guys, we haven't spent a ton of time talking about this off season because I'm done on Oliver Bonk. Like I think we've said all there is to say about him and Barkey and Andre. Like they get all the love. How about some of these other guys? - I think the guys who you mentioned, I don't really, I'm not that interested in it. To be totally honest, I think it's just because that they are lower tier prospects who I generally speaking don't see a high likelihood of them having an NHL future. - That's fine. - Carter Southern has some upside. He's, I think he's more of a project type, but like Matteo man, he's real big. - Cool, not expecting him to jump out at this camp. Maybe he earns himself an entry level contract in two, three years down the road. He could be a passable third pair of defense. One guy who I am legitimately interested to see though, because we didn't really get to see him at development camp. He skated a little, but wasn't involved in any of the competitive drills, wasn't involved in the scrimmage. But by all accounts is now healthy and now will be a full participant in rookie camp. Massimo Rizzo, I'm intrigued to see him because he obviously was still getting over the high ankle sprain he suffered in the second half of his collet season that carry over into the summer. This is the first time we're gonna get to see healthy Massimo Rizzo. And I do believe, well, I do not think he's going to make the team. I think it's highly, highly unlikely. He's the kind of guy where like, hey, you know what, if somebody's gonna have like a Bobby Brink out of nowhere type of camp, he is older, you know, he's not young. Physically, he's about as ready as he's gonna be for the NHL. And if he goes and scores 10 points in five preseason games, like, hey, maybe I am rooting for this kid real hard. Just 'cause it seems like he was written off and written off by an organization that we think is very smart, right? I, a couple of shows ago, did make the comparison to like, hey, man, that Chris Sanchez is pretty good and Tampa Bay is a pretty damn smart organization. Maybe you have one of those. It's a smart organization. Make a mistake sometimes. A guy of that age, of that physical readiness and like the NCAA pedigree, he's played against men before and just, you know, won a championship, did so playing hurt. Like, maybe not the scoring upside of a Matt Reed, because Matt Reed's first three years in the league. He was a very good goal scorer. Who was? 20 goal scorer, but that was primarily without power play time. With no power play, if you looked at his rate stats, he was one of the better goal scorers. Not one of the better, but he was a good goal scorer, good NHL goal scorer. Very good, yeah. A possibility to have that type of rookie year, maybe. I think he's one of the, I mean, we're looking for far more than that from Matt Veymichkov, and he's a teenager. It's a different situation altogether. The whole world is at least the whole Philadelphia hockey world focused on him. Like a guy who could kind of come out of nowhere like a Matt Reed. I would really, I'm just really rooting for Rizzo, whether it's this year or down the line. Plus seems like, and maybe you get more on this tomorrow, they're going to try him at center. Which is interesting. And they don't have any of those. They don't have a lot of them. Don't have a lot of them. It's interesting. Certainly don't have a lot that project is scoring centers. So exactly. It's basically Luchenko, and that's the list. And that's the list. No, and to be clear on Rizzo, I want to say, I don't think he's going to make the team. I think his chances of making the team are single digits and it ain't high. But it's not zero. It's not zero. Because this is a guy who scored a ton in college. He's older. And if he has a huge camp, it's not like, like somebody like Luchenko. And again, I'm not ruling out the possibility that if everything goes right, he could get a nine game audition. I guess it's possible. But chances are, even if he blows the doors off in camp, they're just going to say, you know what? Go do it in, go do it in Junior's one more year. Come here next summer, and then you'll have your shot. Rizzo, what else is he going to do? This is, yeah. This is it. He has a big camp. He's going to make them thick. Like, whoa, we need more. Nah, like this is, this is who he is. This is who he is. It's not as if there's this big development arc. Exactly. Jet Luchenko, we joked when he signed his ELC. Like, was that even legal? Did his parents need to cosign? Yeah, but he signed. He wasn't technically 18. Yeah, that's true. Like, was it, like, was it front dated? Like, yeah, man, the day you turn 18, this kicks in. Like, Rizzo's a man. He's a grown ass man. Yes. It's a different situation. So I would, I'm definitely interested to see what kind of camp he has. He's one of the more just like, yeah, we don't know. And we just haven't seen him really before we get to the super chats. There's just one thing I wanted to touch on here with the sports net article I saw today in the morning fly by over on Broad Street hockey. Okay. And it was from sports net one player from each metro team who has to deliver. It's like, all right, there's a lot of different ways you could go with this with the flyers because they're in such a weird spot, they're rebuilding, they have young guys. It's like, oh, maybe Joel Farraby, because we don't really know what he is. Maybe Morgan Frost, because he's going to get a chance maybe to play with Mitch Gove. Whoever it's just Sean Caturier. Speaking of this team, not having any peck, not speaking of this team, not having any centers. I was like, hmm, yeah. But it's one of the things like obviously we've talked about it, but every conversation about Sean Caturier, it feels like the goalie conversation, it's like, yeah, I just don't know. Like there's just no way to prognosticate this thing, because he's either going to be healthy and fine and find some semblance of the level he was maybe not when he won the Selkie. But in the first half of last year, or, oh no, this contract's real bad. And we just have to watch him and there's nothing we can do about it. What I'll say about Caturier is if you are a fan who, and we have a lot of them to watch a show, and I honestly, I love this mentality, you know, I don't have anything against anybody's mentality about how they watch a team, but there are some fans that they watch a team, not because they're obsessed with a rebuild or what's going to happen five years out of the line. They watch team because they want the fliers to make the playoffs, you know? And it's like, get in the playoffs and see what happens. I just want to watch my team in the postseason, and that's their main focus going into this year. And I respect that. If you're one of those fans, probably the number one thing that is going to decide whether the fliers make the playoffs or not, number one is going to be goaltending because it's just such an outsized impact on how games play out and the fliers have goalie questions. We don't know if either of these two guys are actually any good. Number two is Shonkateria because while the goaltending was the biggest reason why the team fell off in the second half, the second biggest reason was in the first half, they had a first line center and in the second half, they did the second half, their first line center turned into a fourth line center, at least in terms of quality of play. If they get the guy from the first half back, they could easily look like the team for the first half, especially if Sam Harrison is the Sam Harrison from the first half. Shonkateria's ability to play like first half, Shonkateria again is enormous to this team's chances of actually going on a playoff run. And by playoff run, I don't mean going on a run in the playoffs. I mean going on a run where they have a chance to make the playoffs. Yeah. Yeah. All right. And before we hit the super chats, I just want to thank all of our diehards mentioned this earlier. We couldn't do what we do here without all of our diehards. So make sure if you're not one, go to all PHL Y dot com, sign up to be a diehard and if you're one. Gracias. We've got a fair eye super chat. So we have three super chats to close the show today. Let's start it out with Jacob. Hey, he says, I was wondering how rookie camp invites work with players who are playing overseas slash season already underway. Do they get a pass to leave? Jack B for X. I don't know what that part means. Oh, Joe, Jack Berglin, for example, as well. Oh, okay. Gotcha. The, the short answer is generally speaking, if a player is playing in Europe under contract with the European team, they do not come to rookie camp. There are exceptions. Last year, one exception was Alex Cherenick, Alex Cherenick stayed for rookie camp. He got a pass from his team and he then after rookie camp flew back over to Europe and played a season. Obviously then he had concussion issues, which is at this appointment, but he specifically wanted to stay and he did. This year, it seems like Santari Salku, who was a seventh-round pick of the Flyers for years back. He is tied to a finish league team in Mesis, the second tier finish league. He is apparently here. He is going to be a rookie camp. So I guess he got that same approval, but yes, generally speaking, Jacob, for you to be a European player and come and stay a rookie camp, you have to get approval of your team or this guy just has to work out where there's nothing going on, but pretty much all these teams start around the same time, like KHL season has already started. So you generally speaking need like a go-ahead from your team. Yes. All right. Let's hit Gary B next. Gary says, Charlie, do you know if there is any truth to the rumor, heart wants to move to Nashville and was denied entry into the U.S.? Well, this is in a rumor. This is a report. This is a report from TSN. So I would assume it's true. I would assume it's true. I'll be honest with you, I have not been like digging into and doing any series reporting about Carter Hart. I've kind of washed my hands of that like the flyers have. He's literally not even a member of the organization anymore. I understand why fans still care about Carter Hart. He was a key part of this organization for years, and he's been charged with a really, really awful thing. So I get it, but I'm not calling up my sources in Canada to try to figure out what Carter Hart's plans are, so I can't specifically confirm it. That said, if TSN put it in a story that was coming from the court case, my understanding is that the reason why this came out is because Carter Hart's representation said this in the case that they arch that that hit his, the lawyer, his client is trying to move to Nashville to work out with a former player to train full time, presumably with the assumption that he's going to be found not guilty or the car charges are going to be dismissed and then he's going to be able to continue his hockey career. So this is in a rumor. That's a report. I would assume if it was set in court, it is true, you would think. And finally from JH, it's been a great summer. Thanks for real. Thanks. Thanks for the memories. It's a fall-out boy reference. Thanks for the memories. That's how they say it in the, that's how they, they spell it in the song title for you to fall out boy. All right. You, you don't strike me as someone who ever would have liked fall-out boy. They were never my thing. Yeah. What fans you like I'm pretty into. I was never a fall. Okay. They were, it was funny because they were adjacent to, so I got into music in the early 2000s. That's when I got into like the emo punk world. And I was already very much into the emo punk world and had my bands, like Jimmy World was my band Thursday, AFI, they were, they were a little bit on the, like they were, these were all bands that were generally speaking, established in the 90s and then got big in the early 2000s. Fall-out boy was the new kids on the block and I was not a fan. I thought that they were too poppy, that it was just like, you know, it's too, too in your face that the lyrics are too like focused on being trendy, the, they, they, I also tended to like the bands with AFI being like the only exception. I didn't like the bands that didn't go all in on like the emo look. I liked the bands that were more focused on the music, like Thursday just looked like a bunch of dudes who rocked thrice were just a bunch of dudes who just like wore jeans and t-shirts and rock. Jimmy World just looked like the most normal dudes in the world. Fall-out boy were scenesters. They very, like, like Pete Wentz was a freaking scenester and that annoyed me. So I never really got into them. I'm not going to deny they have some good pop songs. They have some bangers. But they're mups. Right? That was, they were the mups bag. Yes. Light them, light them up. Light them up some fire. They have some songs that are very catchy. But when I was in my emo, punk, hey, day, I was a, an active fall-out boy hater and I've never fully been able to shake a couple of years ago, the, the green day tour was fall-out boy, weezer and green day. And like me and my buddy being, you know, in our early mid thirties at that time, well, fall-out boys going on first. We're definitely not going to miss weezer. Weezer went on first. We missed them. That sucks. And then we were like, just standing in the concourse for fall-out boy. When this ends, we're going to go to the seats, right? Right. Right. Yeah. That was, but if you want to make that reference that I can understand, it's bouncing souls. Here's to the memories. All right. Boom. And that is all the time we have for you on PHL Live Fliers today. Thank you all for listening. Thank you for hanging out. If you haven't already got to hit that subscribe button, follow us right here on YouTube. Set that reminder bell so you never miss a live show. We'll be back tomorrow at one o'clock. Follow us on Twitter at PHL Live underscore flyers and follow the podcast wherever you get those. Just search PHL Live Fliers. My name's Bill Matts. That's Charlie O'Connor. Until tomorrow, you stay loose and sexy, Philly. Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]
Charlie & Bill use today’s show to talk more Michkov, as well as some of the rookies who haven’t gotten as much spotlight as the Jett Luchankos and Oliver Bonks of the world.
