The Blue Corner - Everton Podcast
The Blue Corner: Cup exit, Leicester next and is Dyche on the brink?
Welcome back to the blue corner. Avetonians, I'm sure you're all feeling very stressed right now, but me and Ollie are here to try and somehow make sense of it all and see if we can find a hint of positivity ahead of the game against Leicester on Saturday. Ollie, how are you doing, mate? Um, you know, I've been better in the world of Everton. Um, you know, it's been a couple of those weeks where we've really struggled, haven't we? Um, you know, you look at the league performances. You're looking at Aston Villa. You're looking at Southampton in the cup. You know, we're now out of one of the cups that we would be hoping to challenge for this season. And so forgive me for feeling a little bit negative, but I think that's just where we are as a fan base at the moment. I think it is just relatively negative feelings. Yeah, we're coming off the back of another terrible result. And since we last spoke to you guys, we've, of course, gone two-nail up against Aston Villa, only to then be defeated three-two, and then back that up with an exit in the cup to Southampton on penalties in a game where we barely saw the ball and just didn't play very well. So what did you make in the last two games, Ollie? How has that made you feel? Well, let's start with that Villa game. I think us, you know, we all have to be, um, realistic with our expectations. We were all realistic going into that game. We all pretty much expected to lose at Aston Villa. They are a top side. They are in the Champions League. They've got a great squad. They've got some great individuals. You need to look at Ollie Watkins, Amador, Nana, John Duran, the, you know, then three alone are very good players, and they do make up a very good Aston Villa squad. So going into that game, I think I was relatively, you know, at peace with the fact that it was going to be a tough afternoon, we were going to struggle. And if we were able to come away with anything, that would, you know, be more than positive, and I would have been very happy with that. That being said, to go two-nail up at Villa Park and not win the game, or at least get a point, I think, is an absolute disgrace. I think is horrendous. And the fact that we're now sat here, you know, me and you were talking now, like, you know, it's a disappointment that we've not got a point, or three points from Villa Park. I think that's, that's one, a positive, because we weren't expecting it before the game. But, you know, the manner that we, that we dropped those three points was absolutely abysmal, and, you know, no doubt we'll go into it more. But starting with that Villa game, I'm very disappointed with where we are at the moment in terms of that game. Yeah, I think you can say that being two-up was a positive, because we scored two goals at Villa Park, and not many teams can do that. But just, I feel like that throughout that whole game, we never really looked like we were the side in control. And even though we went two-nail up, I still felt like we were getting battered in a way. And I think that game could have ended five or six-two really in the end, just the way, the way it panned out in the end. Like, I expected us to lose once it went to one. And I think every evertonian did. And that's just a sign, really, of how porous our defense is at the moment. Like, yes, you can score two goals away. But if you want to win a game away with the state of our defense, you have to score four or five. It's mental in it. And I think, you know, last season, if we just scored two goals away from home, nine times out of ten, we would come away with a point or all three points. And I think that's showing that Sean Deish maybe is, you know, that the tides are turning. His biggest thing as a manager is creating a team that are defensively solid. Don't ship a lot of goals, don't ship a lot of chances, and are relatively compact in their defensive ability. You know, we're far from that at the moment, in my opinion. We are a team that looks like we could ship a goal on every single attack. And as you said there, you spot on. Even when we went to tune up, it felt like we were still going to lose the game. And me sat in that away and I turned to Joe, the lad I was with. And I said to him, you know, we will still get beat here. We are tuning up and I'm still fearful. I'm still fearful that we're going to lose. And that is, you know, the manner of the club at the moment. That is the manner of the squad. And that's just the feeling around the squad. I think everyone, you know, it became a little bit of a joke in that after the bottom of the game, when we shipped that two goal lead and ended up losing three to it, got us in. I think everyone was a little bit disappointed, but going into that villa game, no one would have fathomed that it would have happened again. But it did, and we were all expecting it. And the second that first Lolly Watkins goal went in, we all knew, didn't we? You know, the tides were turning. It was a constant onslaught from Aston Villa in in terms of their their metacunals. And you just knew we were going to get beat. And unfortunately, that's what panned out. I don't get why Sean Deish was saying that it was the fine margins. Like, yes, Donut Cavalloon should have put his chance away to make it three one. Yes, if we'd have had a bit more luck, it would have gone in under the under the side of the bar rather than hitting the bar in his second chance. And yes, they are two things that could have happened. But also Villa could have had scored their chances when Morgan Rogers tried to square it across to Watkins. And it would just messed up the ball completely. When Watkins put it wide inside the 60R box, you can think about chances for them as well. So I don't think you can really use that as a if we discord this, we'd have won. Because also the way that we were playing defensively, if we'd have gone three one up, I would not have guaranteed we'd have won that either. So it's, I don't think that's necessarily, oh, if we'd have had those fine margins go our way, we'd have been fine. Because it didn't seem like it was going to go that way for me. And you just thought then that after that, we can start a fresh week and play against Southampton in a much more low key game and just get through. Because we've seen Southampton, haven't we, this season, they're not a good side. They seem to just spend so much time on the ball and do nothing with it. And we managed to go out to them as well. Yeah, no, honestly, I just think it was just a very bad week to be in Everton, you know, unfortunately, as you said, you know, the excuses that were coming out after Villa, I don't think any of them are that valid, unfortunately. And obviously he's using this fine margins excuse that's fine in a game where it is tight, but it wasn't tight at all. You know, apart from the two chances that we had, and obviously that the two chances that Dominic Calatluin had, apart from the two goals that we scored, apart from that, we looked like we could have conceded five or six as you said. So, you know, that's not a game of fine margins, in my opinion. So, that's not a game where you look at it and go, we're unlucky to come away there, get in beat, you know, we're unlucky not to take anything from the game. No, we were, you know, there was no chance we were going to come away from anything, especially when Villa scored that first goal. We all knew, as I said earlier, we all knew, so there's no excuse, really, for that. And then, as you said, it was a chance on Tuesday night to go into the Southampton game. A clean slate, obviously, there is illness, there is injuries in the squad, but a clean slate, a chance for a couple of new lads to maybe state their claim and maybe state their claim to get a start on Saturday against Leicester, clean slate, going into that game, but we didn't take that chance. And, you know, unfortunately, yes, the players have to take some criticism for that, but ultimately, it lies on the manager and, unfortunately, we are now out of a cup. As I said earlier, we're out of a cup, which, you know, we don't get much success in the cups as it is. So, to surrender an opportunity to beat a team like Southampton, no disrespect to them, but they're a team that are coming to Gooderson and we should be beating them. We should be putting four or five past them, unfortunately, and we're not doing that. And, you know, we were very lucky to go to penalties, in my opinion. It was an absolutely abysmal game in terms of quality. And we can talk about all day about Southampton, how they had more possession, you know, how their style of play, etc. If you're not putting the ball in the net, but also if you're not creating chances in a manner where, you know, you're playing to Southampton's weaknesses, you're not going to create chances, you're not going to score goals. So, unfortunately, it has to lie on the manager for me. Well, people tried to steer away the fact that we only had 24% possession as, oh, that's how Southampton play. Doesn't matter how Southampton play, you turn up to Gooderson Park and you don't expect your team to have less than a quarter of the ball against the worst team in the league. And the reason for that quarter of possession isn't entirely because Southampton are good at keeping the ball. It's also because when we got it, we couldn't keep it. And even in a game where a team has more possession, if it's a team of that kind of quality, they're going to give it away to you sometimes and it just shows that we couldn't keep hold of it when we got it. And that's what you need to do against possession teams, because if you give yourself that bit of respite, you can then grow into the game and obviously make use of the ball and you actually have it and we didn't do that at all. And we had a few chances granted, which I suppose the manager can't control, but I think he got the performance wrong. So he deserves playing. The players do as well. Yes, it was a makeshift team, but none of them at all made me think I want to see them play against Leicester. So I'm not very impressed. I wasn't impressed with a yes, but then some really, but I can see where things could start to turn for him. He missed a lot of chances, but he offered something, which just gives me a bit of hope. Oral Mangala, he's not fit yet, is he? I really don't know if he'll be ready. And I just think in general, the team just weren't at it. And it's a big worry because that was potentially the last home cup game at Gunnarsson Park. Can I give you a little bit of an opinion as well on the style of playing and the style of build-up play that Sean Dice likes to adopt? I think Jordan Pickford masks the ability to go forward for Everton. I think his kicking because it is so good and so accurate when a keep-a-light jar of a junior comes in and let's have it right, his distribution, his kicking was not good on Tuesday night against Southampton. The amount of times he found the main stand or the family enclosure, you know, a lost count by the end. So, but I think Jordan Pickford masks how we go forward. I think because he's that good at distributing the ball and that accurate hitting dominant Carvat-Looing, it kind of gives Dice a little bit of a rest and a little bit of a day off from criticism because, you know, Pickford can hit Carvat-Looing and we can create a chance going from defence to attack very quickly. And that's fine, but, you know, there's no plan B is there. There's absolutely no plan B where the centre backs have got it at their feet and they're trying to build through midfield. It is all just long ball and lumping the ball forward and we can talk about another situation as well, you know, playing long ball and playing that long style of play. You need a big man up front, you need a target man up front. And, unfortunately, we did finish that game with 20 minutes to go, you know, without a recognised big man up front and talked to me about that decision to take off Beto Ellis because I think this has probably caused the biggest stare out of all the events on Tuesday night against Southampton. What is your opinion on it? Well, there's already animosity towards Shondaich and you think that he'd maybe try to make a few more informed decisions just to make the sensible choice at times, especially when you're under pressure, not to make something that would cause much uproar as that. And to take off your only striker with, what, 20 minutes, half an hour to go, it's just unbelievable. And you could tell by the reaction in the crowd, there was just like a moment of silence, then there was quite a few boos, wasn't there? And I really hope Ashley Young knows that whoever did boo that event, it wasn't booing Ashley Young, it was booing the fact that we've just brought a striker off and brought on no further striker. So we played the rest of the game as if it was, it was like you've had a red card and you're trying to find out a way to just fit square pegs in round holes and get by. It was as if we almost made it harder for ourselves. And then Paul Illeman and Di goes up front, Harrison's up there a bit as well. And we're trying to send long balls to them. It's just baffling and like you think the situation around, actually in the pressure on him, he's not helping himself at all. And I think now the fan base are really growing towards wanting him to go by now. I think the pressure's mounting and how many games do you really think this can go on for? Because you know, we've already, we've lost the first four Premier League games. We've got one massive one on Saturday and we're out the cup. Well, there's obviously the whole predicament of who sacks in and is there the money to sack him? Regardless of that, I think he's got two games to save his job a genuinely do. I think he's got Leicester this weekend and I think he's got Crystal Palace. And obviously there are two teams that are struggling at the bottom around us. Leicester, I don't think I've recorded a win yet this season. Crystal Palace, I don't think either have recorded a win. And obviously people were tipping them to go for Europe. So they'll be looking to get their season on track and try and use Everton as a springboard. And obviously Leicester will look to do the same. So I think if Deige can't use these opportunities of the two teams that are around us in the league to try and springboard our season and use another team as a springboard for once, instead of Everton actually playing teams into form, I think if Deige can't use that and can't use these two opportunities in the next week or so, I think he has to go for me. And I think we need a fresh start because ultimately it's a results game. It's a results-based business. We said that a million and one times at Franklin Park, didn't we? Unfortunately, as much as people are either liked or disliked Franklin Park, it's a results-based business. So if you start in the season with seven defeats and obviously in all competitions, that for me is sacable offence and his position becomes untenable at that point. What do you think? I personally wouldn't even give him the Palace game. If we get beat to Leicester in what is now looking like a six-pointer, then that would be it for me. You can't just throw games away like that. And we've got so many good fixtures on paper coming up now. I just look at our fixtures and see, you know, we've got Newcastle at home, we've got Ipswich to come, Fulham, Southampton, all these games. You can't be throwing them away and the longer it goes on the more, you can just get cut a drift. So either Deige has got to make some big changes himself, like he did after the Chelsea game last season, or we are just going to keep going down there. And then once you're stuck down there, you're in it for the season then. So I'd personally be giving him just the Leicester game, but I can understand why the cup are probably going to give him a bit longer, just because it seems like a massive task and a massive expense to sack him when his contract is up at the end of the season. Definitely, definitely. I think I read the other day, was it something like five wins in 30 that he's got? So this isn't a re-action re-thing. People will say this is a re-action re-fan base thing. But if you look at it from the start at the end of last season, obviously you can talk about the Arsenal game, yeah, OK, we lost to Arsenal, but then you carry in that into this season. We've not won a Premier League game since the start of May against Liverpool. I think the last team we beat was Liverpool. And then so obviously you're looking at that as an anomaly. The other teams that we beat are obviously Brentford, who were already safe. I think Sheffield United was in there, and I think two games against Burnley is in that 30. So there are your five wins. And obviously two of the teams went down. Brentford that were already safe, and then obviously a freak result against Liverpool. Obviously it was lovely to stop them winning the league and keeping us in the division. But Forrest is well, isn't it? Oh, yeah, sorry, Forrest as well. So obviously if you incorporate them teams, they're teams that you should be beaten. Liverpool included, of course. But obviously they're teams you should be beaten. So what happens to all the other games? Obviously people were talking about when Sean Deish came in, that he'd be a giant killer of the big boys. He'd take you to a team away from home at one of the big six and get you a result. And yeah, he's got a couple of draws on the road, and he's got a couple of decent results there. But you know, he's beating teams at home that were expected to beat, and then you're beating your Burnley's in Sheffield United. That's not good enough, and five wins in 30 games. That's not a reactionary thing. So people that are saying, you know, on Twitter or various other social medias, people that are saying that it's reactionary to actually on Deish. He's won five games in 30. That's not good enough, and, you know, in any other normal club, his position will be untenable. And the fact that he's still got a job to me is only down to one reason. It's because of the lack of hierarchy in the club. That's the only reason. But other fans of other clubs, I can see it already. If he does get sacked in the next three weeks, they will be like, "Wow, that is so early." And they don't understand what we've seen for a long time now. And the lack of progression, really. You've got a manager who's been there for 20 months, and you can't see progression. So I expect that'll be the reaction from the wider football world. But we know, don't we, that it's time. I think we both agree is soon to be open. He just has to turn it around, and his next chance to do that is against Leicester. So let's have a bit of a look at that game. And it's a game that you'd want. When you've lost the first four games, it's a newly promoted team, a team that's not impressed so far, sat on two points themselves. I look at their threats. Jamie Vardy, yes, of course. Always a threat, but he's 37. And you've got Wilford indeed. He's playing well. He's been actually playing as a number 10, which is quite weird. But you've got to be looking at that team, matched against ours and think, "Oh, 11 is superior to theirs." Well, this is a big opportunity for me, for Deige to try and, you know, somehow get his tenure back on track. I don't think it's possible. I do think he's a dead man walking personally. But I think this is a big opportunity for Deige. This is a game that he has to be looking at as three points no less. And as you said before, I think I'm kind of more inclined to agree with you that if he does get beat on Saturday, he should go. And maybe, you know, regardless of the Crystal Palace game, you know, you can disregard that. But for me, I think it's going to be a tough game. Obviously, we know going to Leicester is a difficult place to go. And obviously, you can remember that 2-2 just before they got relegated and we stayed up, the nerves that evening, Ellis, we were sat on that way. And that was horrible. It was a cagey evening in that one. Obviously, that mad us some penalty. I don't even think I watched that penalty, but that was a cagey evening up. So obviously, we know the memories of going to Leicester away. But, you know, if I had to nail down a prediction, I think I'm going to go with one or all. I think we'll get a point and it'll be our first point of the season. It won't be convincing. I think it'll be a scabby one. And I think questions will be asked again. Unfortunately, after the game, but that's going to be my prediction. I'm going to go with one or what you're thinking. I think I'm going to go with 2-2 just purely because we have been scoring lately and Leicester can see goals, don't they? Obviously, they do. So I think maybe 2-2 and that wouldn't be acceptable at all for me. I'd come out of that furious, really. So they have to get the win, whether they will is another story. If they can't beat Leicester, who have been newly promoted, then you've really got a look inwardly at the players. And at the manager and think, where are we going to go from here? Because this club cannot get relegated in this season. The final season at Goodison, moving to that new stadium next year, you cannot be in the championship for it. So urgent action needs to be taken before it gets to the point where you get to December, January, the games come thick and fast. And suddenly, you've played 20 games, it can't get to that. So I'm going to go with 2-2 and I'm hoping it'll be 3-2. True. The fingers crossed, we get a resolution to it to all situations going on at Everton at the moment. But it is looking dire, it is looking bleak. But let's look forward to a different segment of this show. After the break, we're going to bring in back our usual segment of Forgotten Toffees. We'll speech in a minute. Welcome back to the blue corner. Once again, me and Ella are back. And this week, we're going to bring in back our usual segment of Forgotten Toffees. So this is the segment of the show where we bring a player that's maybe forgotten by the Everton fan base, but deserves a little bit of credit for their time at Everton. So Ella, we'll start with your Forgotten Toffee. Here is it this week. Well, I've just recently come back from Rhodes in Greece. And I thought, maybe give a little nod to a former Greek Everton player. Well, he's not formally Greek, he's still Greek, but he's a former Everton player. And I'm going to go with Apostolas Velios because he had a cracking name and he wasn't great in the end. But on paper, it looked like he was going to be a good striker, tall, lean. And I can remember, actually, I've been watching David Moyse's podcast earlier today. And he mentioned about the time when we came back against Tottenham at the start of his final season. And I just remember the ball coming in. Apostolas Velios overhead kicks it. And somehow, yellow vitches through the defensive line, buries it and runs into the glider street. And that is one of my favourite moments at Goodison. That is one that isn't always remembered. But Apostolas Velios with an overhead kick pass. Absolutely love it. So he's the one for me. Off camera, obviously. You won't be able to see this through Spotify, everyone. But off camera, I was just sneakily googling. Who got the assist for that? Because I was 100% sure. Well, I was about 99% sure in my mind. But he also got that overhead kick assist. But for some reason, my mind was telling me that it was yellow vips that did it. But obviously, he was on the end of it and he scored. So obviously, that was what I was just googling them. But yeah, that's a great one. Obviously, that is my biggest memory of him, as well as that overhead kick assist. So that's a very good one, Ellis. He didn't do much else to do to be fair. He didn't do a lot else. He didn't, but that's not a bad memory to have him. I don't remember that game. It was a very good evening at Goodison Park that hopefully, we could have a few more of them coming up. Because that season, it started with Man United, beat Man United on a Monday night, then beat Tottenham. Can we have more of them, please? Fingers crossed, fingers crossed. Well, it's actually interesting. You talk about that beat in Man United on a Monday night, Ellis. Because on the Thursday, the 18th of September, obviously, I know when we're recording this is the 19th, but it is a Thursday today. My forgotten toffee is actually a player that was ruled out by UEFA for playing Everton's game that evening against Standardly Age. In a game that we actually went on to draw two too. So, you know, it's a Thursday night. It's European football, it's back this week. So my forgotten toffee is Marouan Fellaini. Unbelievable. Very interesting. Who scored that goal on the Monday night? Marouan did. He did. He is probably one of my first Everton players that I remember being one of our marquee players, one of our top players, obviously. Being 21, we don't really have many. I can think of maybe on one hand. Lukaku, Kevin Morales. But Fellaini was probably one of my first favourite players in Everton's shirt. He was absolutely brilliant. He was horrible to play against, especially when he went to Manchester United. He was absolutely horrendous to play against, but he was a player that did very well frozen. Obviously, under David Moyes, he probably had his best spell in the Everton shirt. And with David Moyes, he obviously took him to Manchester United this season, he went there. So, obviously, we might end up going full circle with David Moyes, but that's my forgotten toffee today. It's Marouan Fellaini. And he was the love of our life, wasn't he? We want Kaylee here, too. What a player. What a champion. What a player, what a champion. But yeah, that's my forgotten toffee today. Came in as a central midfield. They used to get booked every game, managed to get morphed into a striker when we couldn't afford one. And yeah, he was playing dead high up in the end, wasn't he? I remember people calling him Velcro chess, because everything would just stick to him. He, that ball in the air, he would take it down, and he was technically very good as well, which I think he got disrespected a bit at Man United, but a brilliant player for us and our record sign at the time. No, definitely. I can picture a goal against Arsenal that he scored, where he took it down and he scored. I think it was loaded to the right-hand side of the goal at the park end. And yeah, as you said, his technical ability was actually very good. And as you said, it was probably overlooked at Manchester United, but a top player on his day and somehow morphed into a striker in his time at Everton. Two players who are also extremely tall. So, Blues, if you're listening, tweet us at Blue Corner EFC with your forgotten toffee, who's also tall this week? Why not join in with us? Tell us about yours. Who's your random player that you've been thinking of this week? Do let us know. Also, let us know if you've enjoyed the show as well. Please do tweet us with your thoughts. We'd love to hear them, but that is all from the Blue Corner today. Thank you very much for listening.