Behind The Bench
Ep: 146 – Carson-Douglas football set for a showdown
This week on Behind the Bench, the discussion centers around the 101st anniversary of The Rivalry Game between Carson and Douglas football. There are plenty of stats to keep an eye on and Carter Eckl, Jeff Mulvihill, Jr. and Duke Ritenhouse run through all the things you should know ahead of Friday's kickoff. Also in this episode, a look at some stories coming this week in the newspaper from Debbie Matthews going into the AMA Hall of Fame, Carson volleyball has a big matchup Thursday and soccer results from the past few days.
- Broadcast on:
- 11 Sep 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
(upbeat music) - Welcome back to another episode of Behind the Bench with Carter Echol. This is episode 146. I'm your host Carter E. Join us always by my producer, Jeff Mulvahill Jr. of Instamage.com. We are once again joined by Duke Rittenhouse, Nevada news group, news editor. We know we had Duke on last week. We've kind of done a good job of establishing this every other week thing, but we could not deny him a chance to come on and talk Carson Douglas rivalry, especially after the 100th anniversary special section we put out last year and this being the 101st anniversary of Carson Douglas football coming this Friday. That's gonna be the main subject of today's podcast. I feel like that's probably not too controversial. They are given just what this rivalry has meant to these two regions over the last 100 years. And Duke, this might be one of the most anticipated matchups between two cars and Douglas teams we've seen in quite a while. - No, I would agree. Just looking at the coverage we have coming in Wednesday's paper where I'll let the cat or the bag for those who don't know, the research we discovered that both teams having winning records has been 15 seasons. And you think about that and it's like, well, that's kind of weird, but then again, for a long time, they're supposed to meet in the last game right the season. And so what you've got is a case of one team might be a little bit down and so they of course don't have a winning record or they're four and four, which technically is 500. So you've got it. It's interesting, the early season matchup is kind of weird. And I'm sure we'll get to all this. The non-league aspect is kind of weird, but you know, this is a hill I'm willing to die on and I got into it with people last year, but I don't even think second place is close. I think in the state of Nevada, this is the rivalry and it goes across all sports. And it's got the perfect combination of decent sized towns that have one major high school. The distance is minimal that the schools are close, their history is shared and I don't even think it's close. Like the biggest people get on me sometimes and they're like, oh my God, who is it? Rancho is, I think it's Rancho versus Las Vegas. Rancho and El Dorado, I'm like, not even close. First of all, your schools were built in the 50s. And secondly, in one of them, one of the schools is one 27 straight football games over the other one. Give me a break. So I'm sure we'll get to all this, but for my money, yeah, no, I'll be there even if I don't have a notebook. I mean, this is the state's best rivalry. Yeah, I completely agree with you there. And I think we've heard the quotes on here before in past episodes, but the quotes from both sides where both coaches understand that these two programs have met when they are one and eight or two and seven. And either stadium is still just packed to the brim. I mean, you got basically standing room only at a certain point. And I think that is really the truest indicator of a really good rivalry. That it doesn't really matter what the records are when these two teams meet because everybody in town is showing up on a Friday night. And there just aren't a lot of places where you see stuff like that, where the turnout-- and I'm not saying it was for the whole season, but for turnouts for teams that are struggling are still that high. It's pretty incredible, and it's not something you see very often to go back to Duke's point about just the rivalry. And this game, this year, with both teams being 3-in-1, quote that I could not get the audio of just because it just didn't come through super well. But from Douglas said coach Kyle Mayes, who said in-- which will, I believe this quotes in Wednesday's story that you guys will see either online or in the paper. But here's his quote right here, "All those people that wanted to bait whether this is the greatest rivalry in the state of Nevada should probably watch the TV broadcast. They'll probably feel the energy coming through their screen." And I thought that was very telling, given-- this game will be on TV. I never try to promote other entities too hard. But if you aren't able to go, or you have some sort of doubt or lingering doubt that this isn't the greatest rivalry in the state, let's see, tune in when you have 2-3-in-1 teams meeting for the first time in 15 years where they're both above 500. I think this game is set up to be an absolute doozy. I could see it go in a number of different ways. But I've got to be honest, I don't envision this game getting lopsided one way or the other. I think this game goes into the fourth quarter, late into the fourth quarter. And somebody is probably doing some sort of heroics, whether it's a field goal, late touchdown, you name it, to win it. And I think plays in the fourth quarter are going to be what decides this game. Yeah, I've got the score list in front of me here. This rivalry used to be known for that, including recently. Do you remember the 12 to 11? Two years ago, 12 to 11. Yep, that was the walk-off field goal at Douglas. And possibly the, I don't know if anyone follows score agami, but possibly the only 12 to 11 football game in the history of football. I can't fact check that, but yeah, it might just might be. And I'm looking back at some that I went to in the past, working for different publications, 27, 25, I remember that one, 16 to 13, stuff like that. I guess what I'm agreeing with you, I think that could be a case. There was a point, and we had this in last year's section, there was a point where I think it was four years in a row, the game came down to the final possession. And the score was within, I think, five or four. You know, just ridiculous stuff, you know. And three of those were kicks, you know. So, but to your point, one thing I think that's changed, I'm old enough to remember, you know, before we all had really, really good video game systems, and before we all had 400 channels and streaming and all that, going to a Friday night game was more of a thing to do. And you'd get a lot of people who couldn't name 10 players on either team, but they'd go because it was the social thing to do and all that. I think we've lost some of that. And, you know, especially in visiting sides of the stands, you know, some schools just aren't traveling well. You know, you get some exciting games and all that, but the packed stadiums that I remember from the '80s and '90s, you know, in the old days, you couldn't get into a Wooster McQueen game. I mean, you had to get there early. I mean, both sides. The track would be full of people. Those days could be gone. I mean, because I think your Friday night entertainment options, I think a lot of people are choosing. I don't really, you know, I don't feel like fighting the traffic and this and this, I'm not going to go to the game. Man, back in the day, you went to the game. But my point being Carson and Douglas, I think, still have that. Like, you know, if you're the super casual Carson or Douglas student, even, you're not a big sports person, this is the one game you'll go to, you know? So I think it still has that attraction. So Duke, I have a question for you. With both offenses coming off their best performance of the season, two programs that are really have been known for their defense as of late. Do you think we're destined for a shootout? Does this feel like a game that's going to be in the 30s? I know, historically speaking, not usually the case, especially given that both programs-- I almost said both franchises. Both programs are pretty stingy when it comes to the running game. They just love to run the football. And I got some stats for that after this. But given that both teams are coming off, big offensive performances where the defense, you know, maybe slipped a little to expectations, do you think this coming addition of the rivalry is destined to be a shootout? I don't think it's destined to know. And in fact, I think if both teams have a good week of practice and settle down a bit and then look for the opponent's tendencies, I think you might even get the opposite. I saw a bunch of Douglas's game on Friday at North valleys. And one thing that happened was their defense set up their offense. It was actually a case of good defense setting up the Tigers' offense, which then, you know, the score got up into the '50s, which is a little bit ridiculous. I think it's hard to say, you know, both teams like in the high '20s, possible, I suppose. And again, it'd be funny if they were playing in week 10. We'd know so much more about these teams. But as of right now, we've got a series of non-league opponents that we don't know a lot about, especially in Carson's case. We're not going to see Canyon Springs again. We're not going to see this team from Idaho again, or maybe we'll see them in five years or whatever. But so we look at 3-in-1 versus 3-in-1, and we still don't have all the pieces to the puzzle. I actually-- and maybe I'm wrong here, and you guys can mock me next week, but I'm going to go non-shoot out, 20-something to 20-something. I guess that's a medium-shoot out medium-shoot out. Low-scoring 20-something, because I guess, you know, the old 24-21 sort of deal. I think that's probably the most realistic outcome. I'm not sure I necessarily see, you know, a 16-13, 12-11 game. I think both teams have weapons that will break free, that just, you know, when it comes to high school sports, right, giving up big plays is just kind of part of the name of the game. You can't expect, you know, high school defenses to pitch shutouts over and over again. But both teams have shown the ability to break off big plays. And I think you're going to see a couple of those going both ways come Friday night. And honestly, it may just be who makes the last one that comes out with a win. You know, and Carly, real quick, when you look at like the 12-11s, some of that, you know, I mean, no offense to anyone, some of that was offensive in aptitude. I mean, when you go 1-2-3 punt, and then the other guys go 1-2-3 punt, you're going to get a low-scoring game. So give the defenses credit. But, you know, that game ended 12-11 for other reasons, too. And that was a lack of weapons or a lack of imagination or whatever it was, but we weren't getting, to my memory, we weren't getting the sustained drives. And I think the difference this year is we've seen both of our local teams be better at that. But I also agree with what you just said. I think you might see a pick six. Like, for instance, big play, I think you might see a punt return, you know, the sort of things that don't show up in offensive statistics, but they show up in the actual total of points on the scoreboard. Absolutely, absolutely. Both teams have shown capabilities of breaking off big plays in special teams as well. And then we know that both teams have a history of finding kickers that can knock through field goals. From ranges you do not expect to see on the high school field, especially, you know, half the time, I feel like the high school teams can barely kick extra points, let alone hit from 40 plus. No, in Northern Nevada, we are not the kicking mecca of all time. Though if you've got a coach of, you know, four plus decades at special teams, I'm referring specifically to Carson here and Coach Jim DeArieta tends to work out after a while, but I got two stats to throw you guys here. Duke, you know one of them because one of them will be in Wednesday's paper. The other one I didn't really think about until after I'd finished writing the story and I wish I had realized it at the time, but we will get there. Carson ran for 361 yards against McQueen this past week with four touchdowns, I believe, on the ground. Do you know the last time that the senators have run for that many yards in a game? It hasn't been that long. It is in the max prep's era. So you're not digging way back to the 90s, but off the top of your head would you have a guess as to when the last time the senators were able to run for 360 plus yards in a game? - 2008. - No, Abel Carter. - It was 2017, against Douglas. - Funny enough, it was against Douglas. They ran for, at least according to max prep's, ran for something like 500 yards on the ground against Douglas in 2017. They got close in 2019, ran for 359 yards against North valleys, so very close. But according to max prep's, the last time the senators had 361 rushing yards in a game was November 3rd, 2017. - And real quick, Carson scored 59 in that particular game. In the modern era, I'm looking at some of the research we did last year. That's the most points for either team in the modern era. You have to go back quite a bit to where, you know, when the team started playing, we had some 70s, and, you know, but I think it was a case of, you know, Douglas probably had some eighth graders out there in the 20s, you know, when the school was first built. In fact, it's almost the highest score of all time. So looking at that, I don't particularly, I have no actual memory of that game, but you, I mean, they must have set it up on the ground, right? That's a, you know, that's basically the modern record. - I assume that's the only way you can get that many yards on the ground is by just pounding the rock over and over again. And here's the second stat for you. This is a Douglas-themed one. My apologies that this did not, will not be in the paper, I suppose I can add it to the online coverage. But, Douglas threw for 277 yards past week against North valleys. Do you know the last time they have thrown for that many yards? Because the Tigers are, I always use notoriously wrong 'cause notorious kind of has a bad connotation, but the Tigers are notorious for running the ball a lot. That is, that is the MO of that school. So to throw for that many yards, do you know the last time it is also fairly recent? It's not, we're not dating too far back here, but it has been a few years since the last time the Tigers were able to do that. - I'm going through the quarterbacks in my head and I'm not sure I'm there yet. - In 2015. - Close, close, 2018, October 5th against Galena. Of all, through for 334 yards or something like that, I guess I didn't write down the final number, which is my bad there. But again, like I said, to start things off here, two offenses that are coming off pretty phenomenal performances. And that is why a part of me does lean shootout, but I've seen what both defenses can do. And that's where I think, you throw in, having teenagers play in a big game with a lot of fans and nerves and mistakes happen. And I think that's where the defenses end up making some stops. I think Duke's right. I think somewhere in that like low 20s range is probably the best bet. But it would surprise me if somebody wins this game by more than one score. Like if it's a 10 point or more margin on either side, I would be genuinely surprised. - It's kind of a different feeling than last year's game, isn't it? I mean, we had the celebration aspect last year. I mean, you're only gonna get 100th anniversary once in anyone's lifetime. And so that had the, we had a historical angle and we had a celebration angle last year. But no offense to anyone, but you know, I thought going into the game, the senior heavy experienced Douglas team was a favorite against the younger, new coaching staff, et cetera, Carson team, which turned out to be true, you know? So although if you remember, close through the first half. So this year has, don't you think a different feeling to it in terms of a three in one team that we're still finding out about versus a three in one team that we're still finding out about? It has kind of a different feel to it. - Absolutely. Along with the fact that as we alluded to, it's the first time that both teams have met above 500 since 2009. I think A, that brings a different feel to it. And I think you're absolutely right. That B, playing the timing of this game, being in September for the first time since 2006, two teams that we're still figuring out. You know, you can go back and look at the schedule of some of the teams that both of these teams have played and you can kind of see, okay, well, maybe that win doesn't look so great in hindsight and so on and so forth. And I'm not gonna sit here and relitigate the past. But yeah, this game has a different feeling and you know, I think Boshar gave an interesting quote that will be in Wednesday's paper about how it really doesn't matter. I asked him, I believe the question was, do you think this game has a little more hype around it given the fact that they're both three in one? And he said, nope, it doesn't matter if both teams are one and eight, like the stadiums fill up. People are genuinely excited and the kids want it on both sides, there's no doubt about it. I mean, both schools have a dedicated spot for this big trophy. I'm impressed that Douglas's location is above their gym doors and I'm just impressed they have the ability to lift that trophy up that high 'cause that thing's got away 50 plus pounds, maybe more given the stage it's on or the platform it's on, the rolling wooden platform and the big metal state of Nevada hanging on the top of it there. But yes, to get back to your original question, different feel and a game that I'm excited for it every year, but this one, I think either team could go, for instance, let's say I'll do this hypothetical both ways, but if Carson were to win, they follow with Hug and Wooster after that and I'm not looking too far ahead, but put a pretty decent chance that Carson is six and one if they're able to knock off Douglas this year given who is next on their schedule. Douglas's schedule's a little tougher for sure. After Carson, they will go to Reno and then at home against Spanish Springs. But again, you beat Carson, that Reno team will be a tough game for sure and then so will Spanish Springs. But there's a chance that Douglas might be sitting at five or six and one if they're able to win this game. So it could really be a launching point for either side and I'm not necessarily saying that the team that loses is gonna fall off either. But again, you're looking at a Carson team that it's been a while since they've had that kind of record to start a year and Douglas without, with the exception of last year has also been a few years since they've been able to put together a hot start to that effect. - You know, Cara, you beat me to it. I was just about to point out, or I was gonna say non-scientifically speaking here. One interesting thing about Friday's game is that the horn's gonna go off and they're gonna shake hands and they're gonna go different directions. - Yeah. - And it's been a long time since that happened. Of course everyone's gonna wanna win this game but, you know, if I'm the losing coach, the first thing I say back in the locker room is, well, that was the preseason. And now here comes our five game league schedule and the two teams are at different levels. You know, Douglas, as we've talked about, has the larger and the more recent successful football schools, Carson is in division three for the second year in a row. They're gonna go different directions. Real quick, I looked it up. I believe in our research last year, we found out that that hasn't, that will be the first time since 1979. They didn't play throughout most of the 70s until Douglas joined what we call at the time AAA. Douglas was a long time AA school. And in the late 60s and throughout the 70s, the schools agreed to not play each other as, you know, Carson was considered this gigantic school and that's weird to not have those schools play each other. But that's a, that's not the subject I'm going for. What I'm going for is when the old AAA added South Tahoe and Douglas in 1979, these senators and the Tigers have been league mates. The only thing that's changed, the name of the league has changed. It was actually called division one for a while. It was called 4A for a while. It is currently 5A. And here we are in 2024, and they are not league mates. And so quick math, first time in 45 years, this won't be a conference game of some sort. And so, you know, it kind of is what it is, but really my, I guess what I'm getting at is even the loser still has a lot to play for, which is kind of, you know, this isn't going to go down as a league loss. - Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating. I think Friday night is, I mean, we're sitting here talking about this Tuesday morning. And I think Friday night has already geared up to be a big night. This game will be at Carson for anybody who hadn't, doesn't know that at this point, just heads up this will be at Carson at seven o'clock. Interesting to the nth degree. I just feel like I could say the word interesting over and over and over again, 'cause there's just so many differences this year, so many nuances this year. And yet we're also talking about two teams that have had a good starts to this year against also very different opponents too, given Douglas's kind of walked the 3A corridor while Carson has gone out of state and or, you know, they also, they both played Spring Creek, but otherwise have seen some different opponents here through their first four games. Anything else Duke you got while we're sitting here talking about this or Jeff, anything else you want to add about what the potential you see in this game or anything to that affect any other crazy stats we haven't haven't touched on yet. This is honestly my favorite part about having all this data is that I could sit here and look through and find, oh, well this is the last time this has happened and so on and so forth. Not typically a luxury you get with Max Preps and some of the handlings of stats there, but truly going to be a, the 101st anniversary of this game is gonna be one that I think people will remember for a while. - You know, not a stat per se, but I think, you know, as I've said, I will defend this rivalry and I will defend it scientifically and sometimes I'll defend it emotionally, but one thing you touched on saying the game was at Carson, what's another good aspect of this is that wherever you play the game, it's a nice facility. Both of these schools have nice facilities. I prefer to have the track and I prefer to have a little bit of space to the stands and then get a little bit of room to move around, but it's the type of place where when you start filling up those stands, you know, it looks really cool at night, you know, with the lights and all that, they're just nice. It's not like our rivalry has one, you know, modern stadium and one where everyone rolls their eyes and says what a dump. No, they're both, and look at how many regional type events are at these schools, they have track events there. They, Carson's hosted, you would know better than I do, but you know, everything from basketball, you know, to Carson can host soccer and I'm a little bit less familiar with all of Douglas's facilities. I mean, I've been there quite a bit, but I kind of end up at Carson a little bit more, but you know, to me, that's great. There's nothing where you go, oh, I hate playing at that place. I mean, they're both nice schools. - Yeah, both solid facilities. Carson has hosted a litany of stuff over the last couple years between state track, regional basketball. I believe there's a regional wrestling in there too, if I'm not mistaken. Forgive me if that's not accurate off the top of my head, but yeah, Carson has hosted a few things in various different sports, and I think that's a testament to their facilities as well. Anyways, moving on from Carson Douglas football, we did already get to kind of see a first peak at a Carson Douglas matchup. Carson boys soccer beat Douglas yesterday, yesterday being Monday 7-0 down in Douglas, the Senator scored six goals from, or excuse me, seven goals from six different players there. So a first taste of the rivalry this week. Not the only big matchup for Carson athletics this week, either as Carson volleyball host Bishop Minogue, Thursday at home. It's funny from writing the season outlook stories for both volleyball teams, both being Carson and Douglas. At the time, Reno and Bishop Minogue had already lost in league play. So everybody was kind of like, what's the deal here? Is the stadium's gonna get a little shake up? Well, at the moment, it is Reno at in the one spot, Carson in the two spot and Bishop Minogue in the three spots. So A, the Senators should give themselves a little breathing room from Minogue for that top two seed, and B, it could put them right with the Huskies who are four in one in league play. Carson is three in one, still early in the season, still plenty of time for things to change, but a big home matchup for Carson volleyball this Thursday at home against Bishop Minogue. I don't have it off the top of my head, but I am curious the last time that Reno and Minogue have not finished kind of that one, two punch in league play in volleyball. I know Spanish Springs was very good last year, but it seems to be, at least in my five, six years of working out here, it's been the Huskies and the minors who have kind of run things in the volleyball scene. And if you throw Spanish Springs in there, I think you're going back 10 to 15 years before you find a region champion, that's not those three. My volleyball knowledge, not as good as my football knowledge, but when you see the same programs keep rising to the top, it ends up being something that makes an impact on you. - One more thing before we get out of here, I did speak with soon to be AMA Hall of Famer, that is motocrossed, Debbie Matthews, who has just accomplished all sorts of things in her career and has done some amazing stuff. I think that story is gonna be really cool. Sat and talked with her for about an hour the other day. I'm not sure exactly what date that is gonna go into publication, but here's your first kind of teaser to keep an eye out for that, 'cause I think that story can be very cool. And my own of my favorite parts about this job is interviewing people who you can just kind of like see the passion just kind of oozing out of them. And just from talking to her, could feel it immediately just how much motocross is meant to her and just the steps she's been able to take in that sport and some of the glass ceiling she's been able to shatter along the way. Pretty incredible stuff. So that will be coming out soon. Like I said, don't have a date for you necessarily have to hop my head, but something to keep an eye out for as well. All right, guys, anything else before we get out of here? I think otherwise be sure to stay tuned to our coverage online at www.nafadappeal.com/newsback/sports, 'cause there is plenty going on this week. - And you know, before we don't have to delve super deep into it, but Wolfpack at Minnesota, and Carter, I know you and I would, you know, we don't bet on sports, but we encourage people to gamble responsibly. - Gable responsibly. - But couldn't help but notice that when you open the Wolfpack up at plus 11 on Sunday and it's plus 16 on Monday. When's the last time Carter, you've seen a five point move in 24 hours? - I don't have a good reference point. At the top of my head that I also really, truly do not bet on sports that often. So that is a good reason why I don't have that knowledge off the top of my head. You know, it's funny, I did not say this at the time. Douglas kicked that game winning field goal against Fernley. I promise I'm tying this back into Nevada football. Douglas kicked the game winning field goal against Fernley in week one or week zero. Fernley called a timeout. And I was talking to Mays afterwards, and Kyle Mays said, always kick it, right? Kick the ball through the uprights, like you get it, you get another one. That is not always the case, 'cause my Ohio Bobcats played at Minnesota a few years ago and tried to kick that game winning field goal after Minnesota burned a timeout to ice the kicker. Well, we got a five yard penalty for delay a game because he took that field goal attempt and then proceeded to miss from five yards back. So we lost by less than a field goal at the goal and goal first. Anyways, I hope that ties a little bit back to where we were. So Nevada football fans, be careful about when you decide to kick that last minute field goal, 'cause if you wait just a smidge too long, those Minnesota refs may say, no, that's the delay a game. - Well, how can you imagine, in a high school game, you penalize the kid, it was a horrible call at the time. - I was gonna say, I've heard that before that if one thing, your kickers have to come off the sideline and a lot of times, because they haven't been playing every play, you need flexibility, you need them to be warmed up. Yeah, of course you kick it. That, I do not remember, that sounds like the weakest penalty in history. - Yeah, I think Kyle May is absolutely right. You should be able to kick that, but assuming the timeout isn't called, you know, before the snap even gets off or whatever, but they tend to wait 'til like the last second to call that timeout, and I think at that point, it's fair game, the fact that you gotta track the football down is only just small semantics at that point, it really shouldn't have an outcome on the finish if a team decides to kick that field goal late. But, you never know, you see some wild things when you show up to sporting events, that's why people keep showing up. - But anyway, to put a bow on this real quick, this will wrap up Nevada's non-league schedule, and then they will, you know, like we're talking about with our teams, they'll essentially be zero and zero, everything will be in front of them. You know, if you wanna get super technical, they're eligible for the college football playoff. You know, I mean, if they win the Mountain West. - You're not wrong. - And the only weird thing I'll add real quick is it's seven Mountain West games plus Oregon State, which is actually a home game. The Oregon State is a scheduling agreement. It won't count in the standings, but I think we're used enough by now, the fact that our Pac-12 is gone, there's a scheduling agreement. So, you know, when I say that this is, the Minnesota trip is their last non-league game. I guess I'm kind of technically fudging that a little bit, but I, you know, for 2024, I consider Oregon State to be an honorary anyway, so. - I did not know it didn't count in the league standings, so that is a good clarification to have there. And I guess we'll see what Nevada's got at Minnesota this weekend. - And maybe we can circle back on the Pac on a week when we're not so fired up about Friday Night Football, but I think that covers the Pac for now. - And I think that's gonna cover episode 146 of Behind the Bench, big shout out to Duke Rittenhouse for Hoppe back on the podcast this week. As always, thanks to my producer, Jeff Mulvahill Jr. You can check out his work@institimage.com. And as always, you can find all of our coverage online at www.navadapeal.com/news/sports. Same thing goes for down in Minden Garderville, www.recchirior.com/news/sports. That's gonna do it for this week. We will catch you guys next week. Take it easy. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (logo whooshing)