Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard

First Down with Bennie Fowler, Week 3: Nabers' hands, Vikings' Darnold future, Pierce's Raiders callout

Duration:: 50m
Broadcast on:: 24 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: mp3

Super Bowl champion Bennie Fowler, a former NFL wide receiver, joins New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard for 'First Down with Bennie Fowler,' a weekly recap of the NFL's full slate @Bleav. Fowler and Leonard dive into Malik Nabers' unique talent, the Minnesota Vikings' quarterback situation, the NFL's remaining 3-0 teams, Antonio Pierce's callout of Raiders players and much more from the league's Week 3 action. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 is an all-natural, specialty coffee with no sugar that is convenient for the on-the-go coffee drinker. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get a special buy one, get one free deal.

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One of our contenders goes down in flames, at least for one week. And we talk about some insights and interesting developments with players and teams across the league. Stay tuned for that. We're proud here to be partnered with MyBookie. MyBookie is a sponsor here, and if you want to win this football season, you should do it in MyBookie's 10th year anniversary as they roll out the red carpet for bettors. If you use the promo code "PatsPix" through the link in all of my bios and profiles on social media, that's my YouTube channel, Instagram, TikTok, threads, PL on NFL everywhere, and on my X account, P Leonard, NYDN. Access it through the link, use the promo code "PatsPix" and you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your football season a winning season with MyBookie, bet anything, anytime, anywhere. Also brought to you by Boom Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink. 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It takes me less than 10 seconds to make a delicious estate 98 ice coffee and only a minute more to make a hot coffee or latte from this all-natural concentrate. Go to estate98.com/talkingBall to get a special buy one, get one free deal. And now on to first down with Benny Fowler. And we're back with the week three edition of first down with Benny Fowler. Benny, we saw some teams improve to three and oh, this week, one fall to oh and three, the Giants get a big win. It was exciting action. What'd you think of it all? Yeah, I mean, this is just, this is why the NFL is so great. And yes, shout out to the Giants getting a W. But I think, you know, injuries are starting to play a part. And this is one of the things where teams, I wouldn't say separate themselves, but you can see who can step up in terms of injuries. I mean, you look at the 49ers injuries, you look at the Rams injuries. I mean, injuries are starting to come into play. And, you know, this is how, you know, you do you have a real identity for your team? Can you actually take the next step? And that's what we saw a lot of week three in terms of, you know, who's going to step up, who, you know, who are the real, I wouldn't say real contenders, because I think we still have to let that play out. We haven't gone through the first quarter of the season, but no, it was good to see the Giants get a W, the league neighbors, what a guy. And watching him play, and then watching him really catch the ball. You know, I think, you know, just as being a former receiver, there are certain receivers like myself, you know, I was more of a possession guy, catch the ball with my chest a lot and different things like that. And you, even one of the great players that I play with the mainland Sanders caught the ball with his body a lot. But Malik neighbors, all hands, all hands team right there. I mean, catching the ball with his hands, running through the ball. And then the two touchdowns that he, that he caught the other day, incredible plays. The one that was on in the left, left corner of the end zone. I mean, that just shows how athletic he is. And then the dig route in the back of the end zone that Daniel threw on the money, just another hands catch strong hands reminds me a lot of a guy who used to wear number 13 there in terms of just the explosion and the yards after catch. So shout out to him, shout out to DJ playing an efficient game, throwing the ball on the money, making plays, using his legs a little bit. And then single Terry at the end to ice it, you know, wearing 26. But the 26 in Philadelphia is also doing some incredible things too. No doubt, no doubt. I have to admit Betty, in the press box, when we cover these games, you know, it's no cheering in the press box is the saying. And largely try to stay quiet. Although obviously you make some comments here and there. I let out and, and oh shit, when neighbors made that touchdown catch, because he jumped so high. I mean, he even admitted after the game that he jumped higher than he even really expected. Like he said he saw where it was going. I didn't really think he was going to get it. And then that combined with the acrobatics, like in towarding his body to stay in. He's just holding it too. Yeah. I mean, you play with a lot of great players. Like there's just something different about greatness. And of course, obviously the great players, they stand out. But I'm talking about like the experience of watching a football game. When there's a guy making plays that everyone else on the field, including all the professionals are looking at saying how the heck did he do that, right? Like, even Amari Cooper yesterday, like some of those, they were kind of picking on Deontay Banks. Amari Cooper was the way he was toe tapping and retaining the ball possession-wise in tight coverage, right? On some of these fades or back shoulders. Like there's, there, there can't be 15 guys who can make these plays. No, just a privilege to watch. Yeah. I mean, Malik neighbors, that's why you get drafted in the first round. You, Amari Cooper, another first round talent. First round talent separates themselves from the guys like me, undrafted guys. I mean, you could just see it. First round picks are freaks of nature and those, you just can't, you can't get people like that in every round. And Malik neighbors show why. Yeah, no doubt. One thing I wanted to hit on right off the bat, I wanted to go to the Sunday night game to start, because Kansas City beats Atlanta 22 to 17. Benny, I, as I was getting some, you know, three hours sleep or whatever in Cleveland before I flew back to New Jersey, I caught the end of this game. And I was angry for the Falcons players, because first of all, I don't love their offensive play calling. But mainly I'm talking about their game management. They're down five points. They have a fourth and five at Kansas City six. And they go for it, throw an incomplete pass and 10 in for Drake London. And then they end up back in the red zone with 56 seconds left, fourth and one at the 31. And Bijon Robinson gets stuffed for a three yard loss. Kansas City gets the ball, takes over, and runs out the clock. My question to you is, do players walk into a locker room after that? After they know they had the ball inside five minutes, twice in the red zone, they could have just kicked two field goals with a really good kicker, by the way, in young Hoku. And Bijon, the two time defending Super Bowl champions. Do players sit at their lockers after that and shake their heads and say, like our coaching staff helped us slip this through our fingers? Like, do they get frustrated about that or is that not something that a player would second guess coming off a game like this? Because I know I was first guessing it, watching the game. Yeah, I don't think the players would second guess it in terms of this, because you're playing and you're playing to win. And you're playing to win against the defending Super Bowl champions. So I don't think that, you know, if I was sitting in that locker room, like, hey, we should have just kicked two field goals, because you don't know that you're going to stop Patrick Holmes. Hey, you kick another field goal with the type of player that he is. And the way he plays in the fourth quarter, you're not necessarily thinking like, oh, okay, like we got this in the bag and that, you know, we're going to win this game. So as a player, I'm not second guessing it at all. You know, it's like, hey, we should have executed. I forgot, was it, I don't know if it was a drop slam, or maybe the ball got tipped on the Drake London thing. And then you got tipped. Yeah, Bijon Robinson. I mean, how dynamic he is in terms of the way he runs the ball and the way that they were running the ball pretty much all night. It wasn't necessarily a bad play call. They got to execute, but let's also give credit to Ken City's defense at the end of that for making that play. But why would you second guess that in terms of who you're playing and you know who you're playing? But this goes back to what we were talking about last week, is that when you are across the sideline from Ken City, you kind of, you have to play more aggressive, because you know number 15, number 15 is on the other side. Interesting. And so in general, do you think, you know, even if it weren't the Chiefs, in general, do you think players are more prone to get behind a decision when it is aggressive versus like being tentative from a coach's standpoint? You know, look at Dan Campbell and Detroit, for example. Like that's a, that's a sentiment in general that players can get behind. Like we're being aggressive to win. Yeah, and especially, you know, who they have out there and who they were calling the plays for, you know, Drake London, incredible player, Kirk's the quarterback, who is, you know, who's a proven veteran and who had made some really good throws at the end of that game and who can make clutch throws and they just were aggressive just the other night against Philadelphia and it worked out for them. So why not kind of go for it? Well, it's not any night football. Let's go. Let's go play to win. We're not playing not to lose. That's fair. That's fair. All right. Speaking of playing not to lose, the Minnesota Vikings, three and oh and putting it on my Houston Texans, 34 to seven. You and I have obviously noted and you've, you've really broken down very well. The first couple of weeks, how CJ Stroud carrying over from last year. Looking like an extremely poised player, almost like a 10 year vet. What did you see unfold here? Like right from the jump in this game that had the Vikings rolling. I just see complimentary football. Run the ball, Aaron Jones, and then obviously you have, you know, considered arguably the best receiver in the game right now in terms of Justin Jefferson. But I see complimentary football. I see them running the ball. I see the play action game working. I see Sand darl being extremely effective in the red zone and being able just to throw the ball over the field and he is spreading the ball around. I mean, Justin Jefferson, I think he had six catches or eight catches in the first half or 81 yards in a touchdown. But then you have Jalen Naylor who also had a couple catches in a touchdown. I mean, the ball is being spread around to a lot of different people. So Justin Jefferson is going to get his targets and he's going to get his plays, but everybody else is getting the ball. And then when you're running the ball effectively, you know, like they did with Aaron Jones on the ground, I mean, it's going to be hard to beat. And then the playbook is at the disposal of Kevin O'Connell. He can call anything because everything is working right now. And how about Sand darl? Question for you, Pat. The way that everything is going right now. Sand darl continues to play like this. Yeah. What does it look like next year for JJ McCarthy? Do you continue to let him develop or to Sand darl get, you know, a nice three-year deal, two-year deal and stay with Minnesota? Minnesota is going to have a dilemma if Sand darl continues to play like this in terms of what happens with the first round pick they just used on JJ McCarthy. Yeah, that's a great question. That's one of them good problems, I think, right? First, you get to that point. You know, that probably means you went, you won a couple playoff games or you at least made the playoffs and won a wild car game. And so you're sitting there feeling good about two quarterbacks on your roster, right? One is potential wise, but you're feeling good about two quarterbacks on your roster. Benny, I still think that where this team is at, like even though they have some really good players on the roster, I still think they're building. I think O'Connell is doing even more with this roster than anyone expected. And again, they do have some good players, but like they're going to lose Harris and Smith sooner or later, you know, he's up there in age. You know, they got rid of Daniel Hunter, obviously he's no longer here. So there's somewhat of a youth movement there in some ways. I mean, don't tell that to Justin Jefferson, obviously, but I still think it trends towards JJ McCarthy taking over because remember the judgment of the Vikings coming in was, at least the word around the league was they were, this was going to be JJ McCarthy's job based on what they saw from him in camp and in the preseason. Like they saw enough to say, okay, you know, this is, this is, even if Sam starts the first game and we roll into the season, tiptoeing in with JJ, it's his job. So I think that their judgment on the level player he is leads them to stay in that direction, even if that happens, but you know, easy for me to sit here and say that. I mean, if Donald is like, if he plays this way throughout the season and he stays healthy, you're talking about being an MVP conversation. And then if you're in the MVP conversation, you're not getting rid of your quarterback, right? So, you know, I guess, I guess that's why, I guess that's why these GMs get paid millions of dollars because that's not a need to call. It's none of them shouldn't get paid anything, but hey, what do you, what would you do? If Sam continues to play like this, I bring him back and then you just give JJ that much more time to develop because we know he's a really good quarterback in, and you have, you know, the injury rate in the NFL is 100% so you're going to have injuries. But why not give JJ even more time to develop? You take the pressure off of him in terms of being a first round pick that has to play. You keep Sam Darnell there. I'd give Sam Darnell a two year deal, you know, guarantee it all. You know, I wouldn't pay him like a top quarterback for sure. But, you know, I'm definitely not going to give him a four year deal, but extend him for two more years and let him know that, hey, you're going to be the bridge because we drafted JJ. Just come in there and have an honest conversation with him. Yeah, you played well enough, you deserve some money and we'll give you this money, but you're still the bridge quarterback that JJ McCarthy is our future. No, I like it, especially because I think one of my axioms I try to live by, you know, covering these teams and watching decisions of free agency is like, you know, don't get rid of good players, you know, sounds obvious, but I just feel like a lot of teams, especially the one I'm covering every day. It's kind of like, you know, you get in the weeds of the details and it's like, wait, let's zoom out and say, is this a good player? You know, would it help our team if he's still here? Let's keep him. So in that vein, your logic fits. And so yeah, that's an interesting one, though. Moving to a game where you mentioned earlier about contenders. That was actually a potential theme I was thinking about today. You're right. I think we need another week or two to really get into that. But what I'm going to ask you is the opposite of that. The New Orleans Saints dropping this game to the Eagles, 15 to 12 at home. They came in the highest scoring team in the NFL against an Eagles defense that really to me looked horrific at times in the first couple weeks of the season and Saints playing at home and they lay this egg. Are they pretenders? Is Dennis Allen's team a bunch of pretenders after laying this egg? Or do you think Philly deserves credit for what they did? This is one of the things that we talked about last week where I just don't know. I just don't have a strong belief like I played New Orleans in 2020. I know some of those players that are still there and they got some incredible talent, especially on the defensive side with Cam Jordan, DiMario Davis, Marshawn Latimore, Hyron Matthew. I mean, they got some incredible players there. But the offense, just the way Derek Carr was playing those first two weeks, I had just never seen that out of him. And then a guy who was in year 11 or year 12, whatever it may be for him, like you kind of know who you are at that point. And that's just what it is. So Ava Kamara, I mean, he's a real deal. Chris Alave, real deal. Joanne Johnson, heck of a player. Like they got some really good players on offense, but I just didn't believe scoring on every drive so far this season was going to continue to be sustainable. So I don't know if they're pretenders just yet. I got to see how they respond from this loss with the next couple of weeks look like in terms of the more talented teams that they're going to play and see how and see how they continue to shake out because Carolina stinks. And then the Cowboys defense stinks, at least right now it does. So they scored some points on some some defenses that really aren't that good and Billy's got some decent talent and they have a they have a very veteran led secondary and just defense overall and then big fan Joe's calling the play. So we'll see how they fair output. Norland or Billy came to play and how about Saquan scoring all the points for the team and then rushing for 147 yards. It's like he's like a different player. Watching him explode through the hole watching him. This is what we saw coming out of the draft in terms of the Barry Sanders like ability and his ability to make people miss his ability to be a home run hitter. This is what we saw and this is one of the things I said you know going into week one we will see great numbers from Saquan if he stays healthy all year. It's just the offensive line that he has the holes that he can see his vision and his ability to steal run and be an explosive playmaker is still all there. He's he's a dropped pass in week two against Atlanta away from maybe being the MVP front runner right now. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's really something to see. There was one thing I wanted to ask you in relation to the Vikings we were talking about a team that moved to three and oh we talked about the offensive side of the ball. Brian Flores is defense of course you know holding the Texans to seven points that's really an accomplishment and Flores brings a lot of pressure. He mixes up the looks a lot. I wanted to know from your experience you know having played with so many great players great quarterbacks of course winning a Super Bowl with Peyton Manning and who sees the field better than him. Is it am I oversimplifying it to say like a guy like Wink Martindale Brian Flores these DCs that bring a lot of pressure are they the most difficult defenses to play against for an offense or is that is it can I not group it and generalize it like that because to me when I watch the games and I'm sitting there watching you know them mixing up pressures dropping guys who blitz the previous down switching from man to zone and back and forth it seems like that multiplicity would confuse any quarterback but I don't know maybe they leave themselves vulnerable to things that other defenses don't. I think it depends on who your quarterback is and like you said I was able to play with some really good quarterbacks and I think about you know if I think about you know the Peyton's the Eli's the true breezes that I played with they would always have hots and a hot is where you know hey they know where the pressure's coming they might give you two points they might give you one point and if your defender comes then you have a different route so I think it depends on who you're playing and I think it depends on your quarterback and their offense and how they run things I know when I was playing with Peyton especially we had different routes and combinations for all the pressures but sometimes we would just go no huddle and the defense would kind of have to line up and show what they're actually in and then it it slows the defensive coordinator down from from bringing a lot of pressure so hey we don't know huddle Peyton gets us into the right call and then we and then we go execute from there and then if they're bringing a lot of pressure I mean that's where you would see Peyton throw those now screens too demerrius and you know it's a two-yard pass but we take it. 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give you a signal and they change the whole play just based off of what they saw so you know cj-jung in that game and you know the more times he sees these pressures or plays against flores the better off he'll be because i remember playing with patent like we would we'd studied the couple games before in terms of the pressures that we would get but then we would also study the coordinator and how they played patent specifically because you played patent a different way i love that i love that so he would have all the film queued up from the cold stays and everything if it went back that far he'd go back 10 years hey i saw this pressure from 10 years ago based off of this coordinator that i played because you know rich ryan would play patent different or bellichoke would play patent different than another then another quarterback so we had to study the coordinator based off of how they played patent he would do that with you guys 100 percent yeah we were all on the same page all got to be out there together so yes for sure well no i just um you know i know that you guys you know i know the quarterback is getting together you know with the offense at times but just trying to gauge like how unusual it was if he spent if he spent more time on that with the receivers let's say then you know the normal quarterback would or if that's just like the new it wouldn't be just receivers i mean it'd be offense as a whole Wednesdays and Thursdays fridays and then it'd be skilled players after practice a patent led team you know there were no coaches in there watching film after practice he wanted us only in there as players everybody called out you know mistakes or hey this is what you got because we're going to be the ones out there playing so that's kind of how he would install his offense and how he would go about it got it you mentioned one of the themes you thought starting to develop was injuries around the league and i think one of the games of the week maybe maybe one of the wins of the week was the Rams beating the San Francisco 49ers here um avoiding an 0-3 start Sean McVay's team banged up no Cooper Cup no pukema nukua still beating a San Francisco 49ers team that also was down uh George Kittle and Deebo Samuel here as well as Christian McCaffrey um Benny why do you think the Rams were able to get this done because Purdy still had a really good game Juan Jennings went completely off 175 yards three touchdowns so what what was missing from the Niners in a game like this with those injuries and then how did the Rams overcome that i mean from outside looking in Matt Stafford without those two wide receivers you you struggle to figure out how they're going to score points don't forget it's Matthew Stafford guy who's been around a block who can sling the pill real guns glinger so that's how they got the job done and shot to Sean McVay i mean just an incredible play caller Sean McVay and Kyle Shannon both they just know how to scheme up and draw things up with the roster that they are going into the game with and and shout out to Jawaan Jennings who i was i was in San Francisco my last year in Jawaan incredibly fiery competitive receiver not only just you know in terms of route running but also blocking and you know we'll get in your face talk shit to you and make the play in terms of the way that he played but the way i think the 49ers they didn't finish and then you know you also have to get credit to the Rams and Matthew Stafford you know can sling the ball and sling the pill with the with the best of them and and he is a comeback you know he's the comeback kid ultimate comeback kid you know he's got a lot of game winning drives and comeback performances and you know played some aggressive football but as i mean when we're talking about playing with injuries and stepping up to the plate i'd love to give just a shout out to Matla floor who's doing a phenomenal job right now two wins yeah without his starting quarterback without his franchise quarterback but completely designed in a new offense from Malik Willis who got there a month ago and you talk about implementing plays implementing schemes to help your players play at their best and from their actual potential i mean he's doing an incredible job jayden re doing incredible the running backs doing incredible just that whole receiver core and the way that they're playing just playing complimentary football and i mean that's how you coach okay this is the player that i have this is what he does well i'm gonna design the plays based off of that and you know we're thinking about injuries you know the Packers they were talking about you know it could be no playoffs because Jordan loves going to be out for a few games and they the two wins that they have are without him and Xavier McKinney the former giant safety and interception in all three games making plays to start the NFL season that is something to see but yeah Benny that's it's really interesting you mentioned that too because i absolutely it sticks out guys like o'Connell with darnold but then even more so right now like you said la floor with Malik Willis and um i guess my my question kind of to piggyback on that about Malik and the green bay Packers and what they're doing here is how hard is it for a coach like la floor obviously good offensive coach but how hard is it to take a young player like Willis who has let's just face it you know universally has been you know labeled a bust right as far as what panned out and didn't happen in Tennessee how they used him how he didn't produce whatever the case may be how he didn't play how difficult is it for a coach to get that young players confidence back to a point where they can then maximize this scheme because it's like it's one thing to harness their talents but then i feel like when i'm in locker rooms a lot like there's guys where like look at jail and hide it with the Giants right now it's not this exact same thing but when guys play less and they feel like they're not being used properly mentally and emotionally if they're either checking out or their their shoulders are slumped it's almost like they can't find the answers so just wondering you know how tough that is in the NFL when these guys are so proud and they've really never run into this before as athletes and as professionals how how that dynamic works i think it depends on the coach and their communication style i'd be curious to see or you know if i the way i look at Malik Willis and the Green Bay Packer situation is number one they traded for him that's a vote of confidence right before the season that gives you a vote of confidence like hey we think you have the ability to come here and play the conversation that Matt Lefloor probably had with him when he first got there probably gave him a plan of like hey we're going to develop you and this is how we see you Jordan Love goes down he probably has a conversation with him one-on-one in terms of like hey you don't have anything to worry about we're going to make this game easy for you easy completions they give them a lot of easy completions they keep them ahead of the sticks you know they're doing a lot of different there are different ways to get their playmakers ball without him having to always throw the ball it could be a reverse it could be put in jade and read in the background it could be just these these exotic runs that you know get them a first down and then the play action and then using hey this is what you're really good at we're going to get you out of the pocket on the run and we're going to have you make some plays with your feet so that's how I've seen the really good coaches do it you know and then there are some bad some bad coaches or people who just communicate bad in general in terms of they won't let you know anything they won't tell you anything just like they do with the media they do it with their own players of course and then you know the politics are being played and you're watching the reps go up or down in the game or practice and no one's communicating with you about where everything is at the good coaches that I played for hey this is just what it is hey this guy's playing better than you be ready to fill in and this how it's going to go and then you know you're in some really shitty situations you know those coaches they're worried about their jobs so they're not worried about telling you hey what's going on and you know with with Hyatt you know in New York you know he's got God given ability and you know he can fly but where's the conversation and what's being had and why is a guy like that you can't find any reps for him on the field I mean I just think about him and slay on the outside it's going to be hard to cover and they're just both too fast and then you got Malik neighbors in the slide along with Wondale Robinson so he's got to have some plays I mean he should be at least playing it look Pat I was finding a way to play 25 30 plays a game he should be out there yeah well like you know one of your many qualities was reliability and you know and what I mean by that is whatever they asked you to do you could do it right if they asked you to run a certain route they knew how you were going to run it DJ felt comfortable how you were going to run it he knew that he was going to rep that with you in practice there's something going on with like Jalen Hyatt mentioned twice at the end of last week when we asked him about this whole did he ask for a trade trade story which is true by the way he what he yelled it out in a practice he said like you know if you're not going to use me trade me this was in the late summer and one thing Hyatt said a couple times was that we're doing what DJ is most comfortable with and so there's something about at least from Hyatt's point of view the way that Daniel trusts slay and some of these other guys compared to him apparently it was also I guess part of his pre-draft scouting report that he was someone of a one-trick pony but he hasn't he has made some plays like he in the Buffalo game last year he made a fourth down catch over the middle took a hit to make a play held on and I felt like it was like there it is you know what I mean is she draft him Shane did draft him he traded up for him he traded a fourth round pick to trade up in the third round to draft him yeah so interesting very interesting especially because Slaton in the spring was saying hey if you're not going to use me a lot here why don't you know maybe we'll find somewhere else yep Hyatt in the summer is saying hey if you're not going to use me let's find somewhere else so you basically have two of the giants top five four wide receivers this year talking about a trade so they're coming off obviously of an encouraging first half and a victory here against the Cleveland Browns but obviously a lot still percolating underneath we'll get right into that in a second remember everybody we are sponsored here talking ball with Pat Leonard and here in first down but with Benny Fowler by my bookie my bookie is celebrating its 10th year anniversary and rolling out the red carpet for betters you got to use my promo code it's pat's picks the link to my bookie is in all of my social media profiles and bios click the link use the promo code pat's picks at the cashier and you will get your first deposit of $50 or more all the way up to a thousand dollars matched 100% plus you'll get a $10 casino chip football season you got to make it a winning season with my bookie bet anything anytime anywhere also brought to you by a state 98 coffee and all natural specialty coffee with no sugar convenient for on-the-go coffee drinkers go to estate98.com/talkingball for a special buy one get one free deal and brought to you by boom chaga mushroom super drink a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds you can put it in one of your favorite drinks I do it with my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference daily go to boom chaga.com to place your first order and if you use the discount code talking ball 25 or access it through the QR code on your screen you'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order right now that means a month's supply it costs you only $30 start filling the difference today at boom chaga.com benny the Pittsburgh Steelers 3 and 0 20 to 10 victory here over the Los Angeles Chargers and not really with much offense to speak of but credit to Justin Fields credit to Mike Tomlin that they're getting it done are these kind of situations sustainable you know like where they they know they're winning they know their defense is really tough but like sooner or later isn't it going to aren't you just going to run into a situation where your offense isn't good enough or am I being you know too critical it's a three and 0 team and and they deserve credit for it they do deserve credit for for being three and 0 and they beat some pretty good teams in terms of at least the defenses that they're going against you know the Chargers got a pretty decent defense the Broncos got a pretty decent defense and I think they played Atlanta you know the first week of season that's a pretty decent defense so good point yeah you know Justin Fields is going to continue to get a rhythm you know right now the way I kind of think about it is you know will can that offense sustain it and it reminds me of the year maybe 2017 my last year in Denver we started off like three and one and you know our offense was okay we weren't doing crazy numbers but our defense was so good and then we lost eight straight you know so I'm not saying that the students are gonna lose eight straight but you know sometimes it is smoking mirrors in the in the first half of the season in terms of what you actually and who you are actually are but I still think when you have a playmaker like Justin Fields at quarterback a lot can be done and he's not turning the ball over he's been he's he's quite efficient actually with the football run the ball 245 yards no picks maybe at the maybe at one interception but you know he's not really turning the ball over a lot and then he can use his legs and he's dynamic and the way their defense is playing they're playing a complimentary football they're gonna be rushing the ball so this actually can work for Pittsburgh because I mean that's that type of they've had this type of team before and they've won with this type of team before in terms of you know they can win some of the ugly games and they can win with defense so we'll see I just I don't know I don't know how to feel about it I wouldn't bet on them but you know I always bet that deal with the defense and I've played with incredible defenses before that can win you a lot of games interesting um Antonio Pierce the Raiders coach the former Giants standout linebacker after the 36 22 loss to Andy Dalton and the Carolina Panthers he called out some of his players Benny he said that there were some guys on the field making business decisions and so the Raiders were going to make business decisions as a as a player you know take me inside a locker room where your head coach says something like that what are the players doing what are the players talking about is there kind of a split between guys who are angry at those players and and guys who know who he's talking about is it just bad all around that the head coach is calling guys in the locker room out like this I'd take me into the players mindset here yeah if I'm a player sitting in that moment the first thing that I'm going to think about especially just with my undrafted mind is like oh my god is he talking about me I'm going to look at the film like what's going on with me how did I play and then if I know I played hard then okay you must be talking about somebody else if I'm a star player I wouldn't care at all it's like I mean who are you okay if I made a business decision whatever if I made a business decision my money's probably guaranteed so like I'm not worried about that you're cutting me right and if you are like you're paying my money and I'm going to get picked up somewhere else I'm curious to see why he went or why he talked like that to the media why would you not just talk to your team about hey some of this stuff I saw was unacceptable and then you take it to the team meeting and then you show those plays and like hey this isn't Raiders football or this isn't acceptable I don't I wouldn't go to the media about that you know I just I wouldn't do that but you know it's a lot of emotion he's probably pissed so not probably he was pissed so I'd be curious to see who he was talking about and what those business decisions actually looked like there was a Max Crosby making a business decision what are you going to do you're not going to get rid of him he's your best player so you know it wouldn't be you got bigger problems as a coach if it was Max Crosby right hundred percent so we'll see how it plays out yeah it's just it's so interesting because you know Pierce took over there largely because he was the one that players were responding to and that they said could motivate them compared to Josh McDaniel's right always know that that motivating motivation is fleeting it only lasts for so long where you're like oh I'm going to play for him I'm going to play for this coach like that goes that motor yeah it goes away after a while the season is just too long then you have to go out there and play real football and you have to really scheme up people it's not just going to be one off of we're motivated and we're just going to out effort people like skiing goes into it coaching goes into it like Carolina won yesterday and they look like a real team they're motivated right now they got some new life and new energy with Andy Dalton being in there but they still they're still not good like that that's one win and you know any given Sunday honestly you can play well and win but like just because they look like that this week like can you do that every week and when you're working guys down it's just football so yeah Carolina looked great this past weekend but are they going to have that same type of fiery passion and in five weeks same thing for the Raiders last year you finish off strong when Antonio Pierce is a coach for four weeks now you got a whole offseason and now you got to do it for 17 weeks you make an interesting point I kind of I know every situation is different and you're not saying every single situation but this is an interesting thing to keep in mind when teams hire their interim right because what you're saying is that in the situations where the interim does come in and galvanize the group you have to be careful about making the judgment on that coach's ability based on that motivational stretch because sooner or later he's going to have to give that give you a schematic advantage essentially yeah I still think he's a good coach but like they're not going to win any more games now off of emotion and playing for Antonio Pierce it's like no are we a better team and can we go beat these guys interesting no great point two quick things and then and then we'll get out of here I know your time is short wanted to make sure we mentioned Denver beating Tampa this game came out of nowhere to me to be given Sunday Pat what happened here like with 26 to 7 Bo Nix the rookie quarterback and the Denver Broncos Bo played really efficient Sean game a lot of confidence I think that you know they came out passing on the first ride Sean's first 15 plays usually are you know spot on in terms of the looks that you're going to see and he also knows Tampa really well just being in that division for so long and don't I won't say dominating but yeah he's yeah Sean dominated that division for a very long time and when I was in New Orleans in 2020 Todd Bowles was the defensive coordinator and Bruce Arians was the head coach and I mean we scored a lot of points on them so he knows that defense in and out and he and he was able to to scheme it up I didn't think of that ah Benny this is why we have you on man um all right and the last thing Baltimore 28 Dallas 25 I want to obviously a huge win for Baltimore avoiding falling to 0 and 3 want to focus on Dallas though and kind of look real quickly with you in the next like three minutes or so before you have to get out of here at Cowboys Giants so the Cowboys I think the line opened at six and a half minus six and a half at the Giants it's now minus five Cowboys at the Giants just want to know from your vantage point what what is Dallas right now because they're allowing something like 185 yards rushing per game after Baltimore ran wild with Henry and Lamar Jackson I just want to know what you think Dallas is after seeing them through three weeks and then how you forecast the game going against the Giants because the Giants are 0 and 4 under Dable and Shane against the Cowboys they've been outscored 140 to 53 I believe it is in those four games but Dallas kind of looks vulnerable here too so just want to know what you think of that in the matchup Dallas for sure is vulnerable but they they have a lot of confidence playing against New York deck has a lot of confidence playing against New York they just I just think that you know they've always had a lot of confidence and deck plays really well plays really efficient against the Giants at least you know since I was there and since he's been playing in that division so you know if I'm the Giants run the ball like clearly run the ball or try to establish the run but to me Dallas has an identity crisis on defense they're already pointing fingers at one another and talking about accountability and when I see that you know that I see I see trouble on the horizon for this team in in the season you know they have a lot of expectations but yeah the way Michael Parsons was answering the questions and Demarcus Lawrence it's like oh my gosh it's week three and you guys are already pointing fingers at at one another and when people talk about accountability they need to start with themselves first oh we need to hold each other accountable we'll start with yourself call yourself out because I think you guys are yeah your rush is where your defense is built to pass rush Michael go go go back to middle linebacker or linebacker that's where you guys drafted that anyway if you if people aren't doing what they're supposed to you step up and go make the play that's what the great players that I played with would do they would call out themselves first not everybody else and talk about Superman ball or superhero ball that that's how he plays anyway he plays superhero ball to me so yeah no I hear you right yeah yeah he swoops in when they're up 14 for a for a sack to seal the game but isn't consistent he's not consistent yeah I want to see you on all 70 plays so you yeah right so you see no matter no matter how Thursday goes in general you see trouble on the horizon for Dallas because of these signs that you're seeing yep 100 especially when it comes to the run game and then you got a second one in the division now I expect sake one and a half crazy numbers against Dallas if you're not starting Seqah Barkley in fantasy the week that he plays the Dallas Cowboys you're not listening Benny thank you so much this has been first down with Benny Fowler week three Benny we will see you in week four should be a fun one thanks again appreciate your back that was first down with Benny Fowler always a great breakdown of the NFL's matchups and action each week remembered we are sponsored here by my bookie my bookie has its 10th year anniversary and they're rolling out the red carpet for betters you can bet confidently with risk free thursday as you can use our promo code patspix on the link in all of my 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boom chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta gluttons and antioxidants go to boom chaga dot com today to place your first order and if you use the discount code talking ball 25 or access it through the qr code on your screen you'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order right now that means a month supply cost you only 30 dollars start feeling the difference today at boom chaga dot com also brought to you here at talking ball with pat Leonard by estate 98 coffee and all natural specialty coffee with no sugar convenient for on the go coffee drinkers takes me less than 10 seconds to make a delicious estate 98 ice coffee and only a minute more to make it hot coffee latte from this all natural concentrate go to estate 98 dot com backslash talking ball to get a special buy one get one free deal see you next time on talking ball with pat Leonard here on the believe network then go all right fell we're recording now so it's live go ahead pick on me the way that you want to did I say that I would say that to my son and I mean come on man just go this isn't CBS all right be quiet for a few seconds why would people want to listen to the sims complete podcast well a couple things one if you like to see sons pick on their father this might be the place if you want to see a place where the father just kicks he out of his son this would be the place how what do you like about it man ditto father son dynamic duo talking about the game of football that we love and share and appreciate together and you know hey it's an extension of what we did right growing up I was able to watch my father play football then obviously watch him as a broadcaster and then he taught me the game of football and share the wisdom that he learned throughout his playing career and you know hey sometimes we're full of it and sometimes we actually know a thing or two well we do do a lot of research at least I do you you little spotty but you know you're you hang in there it's fun I love doing this and it's been awesome sims complete check us out wherever your podcasts are available on the believe network appreciate it see you if you like the show please take a moment to rate review and subscribe it really does help the show to grow thank you for listening [BLANK_AUDIO]