Radio Miraya
2824: ROUNDTABLE: South Sudan's extension of the transitional period
[ Music ] >> The round table. >> Hello and welcome to the round table. My name is Sanny Martin, we are coming to life from Cuba this weekend. Today we are going to be looking at the announcement which you already have wired, the extension of the interim period by two more years. Elections are not going to happen as scheduled on the 22nd of December 2024. And this announcement was made last week by the Transitional Government of National Unit for a period of two years. And also the postponement of a election which were initially scheduled to take place in the 22nd of December this year. Now it has been pushed to 22nd of December 2026. The parties to the agreement of 2018 said the extension is an opportunity to implement the critical remaining protocols in the peace agreement such as the writing or the permanent constitution, the unification of the unified forces among others. Under the new extension period, the government will lobby for funds to complete this pending task with a new timetable. Or matrix, as you may call it. And many analysts have also raised concern about what would happen if the parties fail again to meet the 2026 deadline to conduct free fair election on 22nd of December 2026. So these are some of the issues we are going to be discussing here. And our lines will be open to you later on where you can call and be part of our discussion. 091207799 or 091206950 or visit our Facebook page and drop your questions from there. I am joined here already by my three panelists. And I already have with me, Honorable Dr. Martin Elia Lomerro, the Minister of Cabinet Affairs, and the Secretary-General of the Higher Level Implementation Committee. Good morning and welcome to Redeemer. Good morning. I also have Honorable Angelina Arteni, the Minister of Interior and also senior member of the SPLMIO and also a member of the Higher Level Implementation Committee. You have also come to Redeemer. Happy World Peace Day and good morning everyone. I also have Honorable Joseph Lago, the Minister of Agriculture and Food Security, chairperson of the South Sudan Opposition Alliance, the SOA, and also a member of the Higher Level Implementation Committee. You are also welcome. Thank you very much. Good morning everybody. Okay. First of all, let's begin from why Honorable Angelina started by saying Happy International Peace Day. First of all, I want to get your opinion on there is an event going to take place here today or the International Peace Day at the Agricultural Center. We are a country seeking to have a long lasting peace. What is your take on this Honorable Minister? Yes. Thank you very much. This is a very important day. It is good that actually the UN created this day for the world to remember that there is need for peace in order for people to prosper and live in harmony. So this day for us is really befitting because we are also now dealing with the issue of the extension and so on and there are many different divergent opinions about this. But what I want to say is that this extension is in the interest of peace and stability. Okay. To ensure that this country moves on together. All right. Yes, Honorable Dr. Martin, what is the significance of this International Peace Day to the people of South Sudan? I think it's a reminder for us to understand peace. And what is it that is opposite peace in South Sudan? I think that there are many issues that defy the definition of peace. Today, all of us leaders, chiefs, citizens should be thinking, what is it that makes me peaceful, yourself, begin with yourself? And list the things that cause violence, things that make peace difficult to be sustained in South Sudan. It is very important day for us, all of us. Okay. Yes, Honorable Josephine is the Minister of Agriculture and Food Security. On this important International Day of Peace before we go to our actual topic of the day. And this is tied together with also our topic for today, which is peace process in South Sudan. They say the only friend of viewers will never leave you when you are in trouble is hunger. What do you want? The hunger will always be with you. So on this International Peace Day and as the Minister of Agriculture and Food Security, why is it very important for us to have peace in this country? Thank you very much. We celebrate and we welcome this very, very important day, which is the peace day being celebrated internationally. I think this is important because it highlights the importance of, you know, living, you know, peacefully with each other and finding, you know, peaceful mechanisms of resolving conflict if and when they arise. As for hunger, yes, you know, unfortunate that our country is experiencing, you know, a hunger situation, food insecurity and what of you. But we in the agriculture sector believe that, you know, securing food is as important as securing peace. In fact, you know, food insecurity for us, you know, amounts to national security. So if hunger is one of the things that does not leave us, then it is important that we work to ensure that we have peace in the country so we can have food security in the country. Okay. Right now, let's go to the elephants in the room. That is the extension by article and the parties agreement. And also other stakeholders have given in their consent two weeks ago. There was an extraordinary sitting here and the parties also, right from me, this year, have been sitting, discussing, agreeing and disagreeing. And finally, the presidency sat and gave a blessing. And now we had an extraordinary cabinet meeting that took place, gave the blessing. And now we have the argument and the members also gave the blessing for the extension of this interim period by extra two more years. And yesterday, he and Juba, they constituted Transitional Assembly also, gave in their blessing without any difficulties. And people have described this as one of the marathon issue, the parties have taken, because it favors them. Let me begin with you, Honorable Dr. Martin Elia Romero. Without going to a lot of explanation, can you give our listeners this morning or today what compelled the parties to extend the interim period by extra two more years, given the fact that all of you promised that there will be no more extension? First of all, we as parties to the agreement are concerned about two or three things. One, sustain peace. Make sure the country does not go back to war. And three, give power back to the people so the people can elect the leaders. So these are our preliminary concerns. Now, looking at where we are, what we have done, and the conditions that are necessary for us to sustain peace, for us to make sure that the environment is conducive and the citizens can truly and freely elect their leaders. We felt that at this time and around, there are very important things that must be implemented for the people to have the freedom they need, for the leaders to be able to go to the countryside, campaign freely without fear, and be able to speak what they will do to the people so that the people can decide. So we felt as a responsibility upon us that the conditions were not right. And so as a high-level committee, the only way for us to be able to explain is to look at what are these things that each of the institutions that are supposed to prepare for election do. What is their mandate? How much of it have they done? How much of it they are still doing and how much of it they haven't even touched. And on the basis of those prerequisites, the next question is why have we not done it? And the answer was we didn't have the money. What else? How long do you want if I give you the money today? How long will it take you to finish? So we got the data, we got the information. And on the basis of information, we advised the leadership of the country, the partisan agreement. And there is no sense. That's why this process took place according to the agreement as well. The agreement empowers us as partisan agreement to be logical and to be able to look at what we have done and whether we are ready or not, if we need to make any changes in the agreement, we are empowered as partisan agreement. And that's what we did. Okay, and when you are extending the roadmap two years ago, did you foresee the challenges of getting funds and facing difficulties on the way that will not have made you to complete all the tasks? Why are you going to get funding this time around in the next two years? If you could not raise the money in the last roadmap? Well, we did for C during the roadmap time, but conditions changed as well. Today we are facing different conditions in the last two years, things are the same. But what we have done this time around is to change how we could get funds. So we have measures that we will undertake to ensure that the money that the government can garner within the system is used for the agreement. That we have some austerity measures, things that are not necessary or can wait for as long as it takes. It will be delayed and prioritise funds for peace. We are also going to look at the budgets submitted to us by the institutions. Some of these budgets, some of us feel that they are over the board. They can be cut down substantially so that we can actually implement a peace step-by-step. We are going to have each of these organisations give us real time to implement each of the steps they're going to take. And this time around, they will not do it at their own leisure. The high-level committee is now empowered to see with them every month, every week, every day, to make sure we follow judiciously what they are doing. Okay. Yes, Honorable Angelina, the same corner where you are sitting, when we brought you here during the last extension, you said there will be no excuse for you, the politicians, to come back to the same studio where you are sitting today and explain that we are extending. And now here we are today. So, what went wrong from the I/O side? And also, do you think this extension is in the best interest of the common people of South Sudan or it favours you politicians to cling on to power? Because some of you feel like if the people are giving back their powers, at least 50-60% of the current politicians will not make it back. Yeah, let me start from where you said that my statement. I still stand by that statement because it's quite embarrassing for us to come back again and say, "Look, we have faced these challenges." But then the reality is that those challenges that could not allow us to create the necessary conducive environment for achieving that election that will give us the desired goal, which is a peaceful transfer to democratic system and ensuring sustainability of peace have not been met. And this is a reality and this is a challenge. And also, as a responsible person, I would have to come and say, "Yes, it is a tall request to us for another extension." But then what other options do we have? So it's rather that we face it and say, "Okay, we might not have been able to do ABCD, but the only option that is left for us to ensure a peaceful, sustainable environment in our country is to have this extension." Because of a number of things, some have just been mentioned by my colleague, the Minister. Now, is it in the interest of the parties or the people of this republic? Let me give you a small example. The last Saturday, I was just driving by John Karang, a mausoleum, and I saw a group of people just running and looking like there's a fight. I asked what's going on, so I was told there's an election of a community in Freedom Hall, and people thought, "This is in Jupa. This is a community." Electing leaders of community level. And then I actually laughed. It reminded me that there is so much that is needed. Just imagine if that was somewhere where these youth have arms in their hands. So what would have happened? Just imagine if it was in the village, in a county somewhere, what would have happened? Just imagine if it's the general election that we have in where you're electing your representative. So it reminded me that we need to do some work in order to ensure that our people are reconciled, people understand what it means to have this democracy and that it is a way of transfer peaceful from one to another to another to another. So this is actually what I'm trying to say is in the interest of this country and its people, including us leaders. We don't want to be managing wars. We don't want to be managing situations whereby people are at each other's throat, people are dying, people are, and so on. We have enough to worry about. We're worried about flats. Now that is actually befalling our country and our people. We're worried about the food insecurity that we just heard because flood comes with a number of other challenges, climate change and the rest of it. We do not want to add the anxiety of an election where a country is not prepared. So this is an opportunity for us to prepare properly. It is in the interest of this country and everyone in this country, including the political parties, including the parties to the agreement who have now taken this bold decision and decided to actually face the world and say look, without the face you would say we need the extension. Now, I'm sure the same way I'm not getting it. I ask from the I/O perspective what are the issues that compare you to say now we are giving our consent for this extension to be affected. What are some of these critical issues you think should be done like you are saying and you were given ample time two years. Why did you fail to do it in the last two years? A number of challenges, one of the challenges has been raised in this issue of funding and you raised it yourself. We could not meet the necessary funding and this is for all as a government, R.T. Guno for I/O. First of all, the agreement has very clear steps that would lead to a free, fair and credible election. And this peaceful, free, fair and credible, these are key words. One of which is a permanent constitution. In fact, this election process is supposed to be informed by the permanent constitution. Even the very election law that we have now will have to be amended based on the permanent constitution. So this is one prerequisite that is required by the agreement. The agreement also talks about chapter five of transitional justice, ensuring reconciliation. That the people are reconciled, that we are able to collect all the arms in the hands of civilians. We are able to do a number of other things in relation to reconciliation. Now there's another prerequisite, the security sector. Can you imagine a situation where you go to an election, where you have several armies being commanded differently? This is a situation that we are faced with. Until we are able to complete the unification of the forces, we are able to make sure that chapter two of the agreement not only complete the unification. We must also embark on the process of reforms and transformation of the security sector to ensure that fairness and credibility of the election. Because we want also to bring our people, there's another one also, judicial sector reforms. Because we want our people, when you go to election and you have a dispute, you should be able to know that I'm going to a fair system of judiciary. And I will get my redress and so on. So these are some of the challenges that has faced us and that would not contribute to a fair, free, peaceful, credible election. Okay, and the honorable Jocelyn is a chairperson of SOA. You have heard from them, one of the major challenges is funding. I'm sure you will also agree with them. But the question I will be asking, do you think the ideas of extending or delaying or postponing the election to December 20, 26, could have been avoided if the parties are the interests of the people in this country? Thank you very much. I think as my colleagues have, you know, emphasized really this extension has been done with the interests of the people at heart. I mean, the parties, the agreement, the government had an option. We had the option to go for a bad election, a bad election that might end up in violence. And the choice of, you know, postponing this election, and we opted to postpone this election for very, very good reasons that have been already mentioned. We needed more time to complete very, very critical outstanding tasks. We needed time, you know, to prepare the country so that we can go for a peaceful, democratic election. And we needed to bring our people on board because we know the country wants election. Our people want election. The parties to the agreement want election. The international community wanted election, but then the question is really, you know, what type of election do we want to have? So we opted for the less evil, you know, if I may put it that way, which is to extend the election date so that, you know, we have more time to prepare the country for a fair and credible election election, you know, whose results will not be disputed. And for us, this was the critical point, and this is what actually persuaded us, as, you know, parties today to the agreement as South Sudan opposition alliance, not to go for a bad election. And we opted to actually go for dialogue, and we have been dialoguing. The parties to the agreement have been dialoguing, and this is the result of our dialogue, is the consensus that the parties to the agreement have reached. And this, you know, postponement is for the interest of our people. They may not feel so, but I am sure, and the country rightly is divided. There are actually people who are very, very happy that this election has been postponed. People are relieved that this election has been postponed. Otherwise, you know, already people were beginning to experience, you know, panic, and people were beginning to even, you know, think of, you know, taking their children across borders to avoid any possible challenges. So this has actually now relieved people. We have more time now to look for funds to prepare ourselves to ensure that we complete the outstanding task so that we can go for a free and fair election. It's the right of our people to elect, you know, their leaders, and we do want to give them that right, that opportunity, but in a fair and credible, you know, environment. Thank you very much. Now, the question is, what will happen? Or what if the parties fails again to meet all these prejudices in the next two years? What will happen? Well, if the parties fail again, they will fail, not because they want to fail intentionally. I think one of the things which we need to understand in this country is that, you know, the government, the revitalized government of national unity has been dealing with multiple challenges. We are implementing peace, but we are forgetting that we are implementing peace, you know, at the backdrop of a very, very important exercise which we are doing concurrently. That is building the nation. It took some countries centuries to build a nation, and we are trying to do it in a matter of years or decades. So building an nation is going to be very, very challenging, and it's going to take time, okay? So if we fail to accomplish, you know, our, you know, targets, it's not because government, you know, wants to fail, but it's because we are also concurrently, you know, undertaking a very, very important exercise which is building the nation. There are also other factors which, you know, the country is, you know, experiencing multiple, you know, manmade or, you know, natural disasters like the flights that have been mentioned. And a part of the reason why the country is now experiencing, you know, economic, you know, difficulties is because of the war in our northern neighbor, you know, the war in the Sudan. We are not control of a lot of these factors, right? Yes, I know about Dr. Martin earlier, this is now the fourth extension of the agreement since the parties signed the 2018 deal on the 12th of September. The pre transition period was extended twice, and now the transition period is also extended twice, an agreement whose implementation was supposed to have concluded within 44 months is now taking 110 months. What is more worrying to the citizens is the issue of guarantee. People don't see whether, once you extend, you are committed to implement what you agreed to do within that given period of time. As you speak to the people of this country, this weekend, what guarantees are there to justify that this time around in the fourth extension, what you have agreed to implement in the next two years will be done and give back powers to the people, as you said, in your early statement. Well, first of all, what is important for the people is peace. The people of South Sudan don't want to see a situation where the country goes back to war again, and let me tell you my experience, Sunny. In 2013, I was among the people who collected bodies on the road, 401 of them. I have the statistics of day one, day three. I didn't know that what was happening on the roads, but I had obligations as a minister of governor affairs to go and pick ministers who are in areas where they will be there yet. In the course of doing that, I saw bodies on the roads. I would join me, we collected these bodies, we took them to the Mochari, and we know where they are buried. I even have a photograph of where people are buried. These people, some of them are not even in the army. Citizens are moving around doing their daily business. 2016, I was in day one. I left half an hour before what happened in 2016, day one. If you saw what I saw, you would not support war. Leave alone what happened in the counties, in the villages. How people don't deserve that. What happened to us during 2016, even the Arabs did not do it. So there is that trust that we need to regain to ourselves. There is an understanding that we fought for independence in unity. Now that we are independent, we are unity. That should be the thing that worries our people. Two, they guarantee for us that this time round, things will be different. It is in fact their anonymity with which all the parties to the agreement agreed on one thing. We don't want to take our country to war. We rather face our people and tell them no extending for these reasons. You have heard all the reasons. This is the first time. All the parties to the agreement agreed on one recommendation. It is very important to understand that the trust we are building among ourselves has reached a point where we are more nationalistic than we were before. It is important that our people understand that. The second guarantee is this. The region has come to support us now. Believe me, some of you might have heard what President Cyrano also said. The most important decision and the most credible decision that people have made is to extend. The same like Buran. The same like Museveni. The same like most other African union leaders. Because they can see that the country is already for election. Leave alone the day-to-day things that we face. But the overall picture of the country. The country where you have a national security sector. The country where there is nobody who has any other arms, other than the government, commanded by one command and chief. A police that belongs to all of us, an army that belongs to all of us, is not there. Today, some of the soldiers of Iowa are still in assembly point. Some of the soldiers of SOA are still in assembly point. They are not even brought to control men. They are not even trained. They don't even know what a government, they still believe in their parties. But that's why people are asking. You had all the time to bring them into one place, train them, unify them and deploy them under one command. So, this has not happened. It's not the problem of South Sudanese. It's the problem of the politicians who don't want. No, it's not the main. No. This is where you go wrong. It is the problem of South Sudanese because the government of South Sudan does not have the requisite funds to do and purchase and procure the things that you need to do for the army. An agreement, anyway in the world, is not supposed to be implemented by one country. If you look at the timetable, the annex, the tables attached to the agreement, there are many organizations that are mentioned in there. After the union is there, the UN is there, all the region is there. But nobody has come to give us money to implement the agreement. They say there's no political will. How can we determine political will? We signed this agreement in the 12th of September 2018. How do you determine from that day we signed the agreement that there's no political will? That's just a reason not to support us. So we struggle on our own. And you can see how much money we are earning. People talk about the regime, the regime, the regime. Please go down to the ministry of petroleum, do your statistics, and then talk. That's the end-becoming market. Don't even know how much we are producing. They don't know our obligation. This is a country that has never taken a loan as I speak. By the way, these small, small loans people take from here. The inner coal loan, America has trillions in debt. The whole Europe goes to every single country. You can go to the internet and you can check. You can check South Sudan in the country. So when we say we were not properly supported, it's one of our reasons for failure. But now this time around we are saying, let us try our belt. Let's stop many other things that we used to do. Some of which are necessary. Why should South Sudanese believe you this time around? That things will be done differently from what has been done in the last roadmap. At least because we have maintained peace for them and there's no war. People are peaceful, my friend. Don't you think that peace is more important than any of these things? Look at other countries. Sudan was a very stable country. But politicians, some society organizations, and political parties caused war. Because there are multiple armies. Look at West Africa. What is happening in West Africa? This Kenya here is stable because it has a national army, properly organized army. If it had several armies, there would have been war there. We want to go to a situation where we have one single security sector. And we want to spend whatever is going to be gotten this time around. We want to put it in making sure we have one national security. We have political parties that are serious, that are nationalistic and that are serious about democracy. Two things. Yes, Honorable Angelina, during the voting, three days ago here in Juba, Beijing Hotel, the U.S. and some Western donors to the 2018 Agrimanary Framed from Andozing, the recent two years' extension of our artygona. And they said, I quote, "We cannot endorse the extension because we are not prepared to endorse the status quo. That will prioritize the privilege of the elites over the welfare of South Sudanese people. Hence, we abstain. What is your take on that? These are your friends. These are the people who have been right from day one and right now. They are turning their buck from the parties where you need funding. Like you had from the minister, you alone cannot find any extra hand to call up." Thank you very much. Of course, each and every body is entitled to their opinion. But also in that statement, because I was present in the hall, that statement was preceded by the statement that recognizes that this country is not ready for election. It has not prepared for election. It is not ready for election. This is key. So I want to acknowledge that now, to get ready for election, I still go back to the same friends as you call them friends. There are friends there with us in many, many occasions that, yes, you have a right to make your statement. You have a right to have your views. You have a right even not to have trust. But our take is that we take this opportunity to build trust. We take this opportunity to build trust because South Sudan is not an island. And if the interest is to ensure peace and as for the people of South Sudan, as mentioned in that statement, then it's high time that we also sit with our international partners and those who refrain from endorsing or giving their consent to really sit in dialogue. Let us sit in dialogue. What do we expect from each other? Political will can be generated, if you say there's no political will, political will can be generated by even supporting the very agreement and the very people, because what we are asking is not money now, as we speak, and even during the last period of two years. For example, I share the SDSR board. We have been getting support here and there and especially from Ummis, we have never asked them to give us money. We have asked them to do activities for us. So if the issue of trust is a problem, let's discuss because the support for the people of South Sudan and for peace and for stability is important. It is international peace, regional peace, and it comes down to South Sudan. We contribute to all of that. So I still appeal to our international partners who do not give their consent to say let's come, let's dialogue, let's see how we can move this peace forward. Your contribution is very, very critical and is very, very important. And let's see how we can do it in a sense that it helps generate the political will that you feel is not there. As parties, as government, as arty gonna. So for me, it's not a departure point. In fact, it's a point for us to come back and look and reconsider and rethink with these international partners. And it's an arable jurisdiction and anyone can also come in later and give you an opinion. Now, many South Sudanese online have expressed their frustration about the recent extension by the government. They are saying that if they were to be consulted, they would not have given their consent. They are also others, like you said, an arable jurisdiction, that they are also others who are happy about this extension, that at least they are relieved now. But the question people are asking, do you think if elections were to happen in December, will there be war and what will bring this war? Well, our concern was that if we pushed on and conducted election in December 2024, then there would be a big probability that the result of this election will be disputed. And the result will be disputed because we are not fully prepared for the election. There are still tests which are outstanding. We have several commanders in chief. And there are still also some lack of stability in our rural areas. And we could foresee these things right before our eyes. So given that the country was not prepared, we just felt that it was not worth taking the risk because the end result was going to be obvious. The results were going to be disputed. And once the results are disputed, our people will not have the patience to come and sit down and dialogue. They will just take their arms and just go back to war. And now if such a situation were to happen, would that be for the interest of our people, the very people whom we are trying to protect? No. We do know that our people need peace, our people need stability. Yes, our people are frustrated because they need services and what have you. But government is doing its best to ensure that all these requirements, all these demands which is being put on the government rightly, so by the general population is fulfilled. So I think the government, the partners to the peace have the interests of our people at heart. They may not see it, but really, this is what is happening. And how do you break the perpetual cycle of our transition? That seems to become synonymous with South Sudan. Honorable Jack Lee, before, Josh Lee, before we hear from Honorable Dr. Martin Elia Lomer. Well, the issue of, you know, this perpetual, you know, transition, perpetual extension, as I had mentioned in the beginning, is because we are building the nation's center. We are building the nation called South Sudan. But how do we break it? By, you know, you know, steadily, progressively, building this nation so that people, you know, you know, become nationalistic, so that people, you know, have, you know, shared values, so that what is good for me is also good for XYZ, so that, you know, what is right for me is also right for, you know, XYZ. Building a nation is a process. And we just have to be patient and build it steadily so that all of us feel that we are a part and parcel of this very nation. It's until we build the nation that, you know, exercises, such as, you know, democracy and what have you, you know, can become, you know, possible. So this is going to be a process. It's not an event. All right. Yes, Dr. Martin Elle Amuro, many South Sudanists have expressed their frustration online. First of all, they say this extension favors you, the politicians. You won't keep yourself in power at the expense of South Sudanists who have gone for 10 months without being paid. The moment you cling on to power, the economy is crumbling. People are struggling to eat. People are not affording their basic needs, like going to hospital. The market is expensive. Schools are not working and all this kind of thing. So you always just care about yourself as politicians neglecting the people because once you give them power, some of you will be shown the exit. What is your take on that? And how do you break the cycle of extension and extension? I want to begin from the question you raised about our partners and how? Yes. These people you call partners, these are countries that represent their capitals. Their capitals have a political interest. They have economic interest. They have all sorts of interest. That's why they have ambassadors in our country. They're not here for nothing. Now, who are those people who do not vote? This is the US, the UK. It's Norway, and this time around, EU. When you look at the other axis, the agreement which was signed elsewhere, the three of them did not sign. US, UK, Norway did not sign. This is in September 2018. They did not sign. What does that mean? That means they don't want to support what is going on in South Sudan politically, economically. They don't want because they don't see the interest in South Sudan. In 2022, they did not support the roadmap either. So at this time, we don't expect them to support. Why would you support something you don't support from the very day? Without even giving us the opportunity to fail, you already project that we're going to fail. And so, let the people of South Sudan not listen to people who are here for their own interest. They're not here for us. They will tell us, "Oh, we're helping you in humanitarian assistance." In humanitarian assistance, that's South Sudan. It's just give us trust us. If you are genuine, bring us open for us infrastructure for irrigation along the river. Develop what are points all over the country. We don't want food. Give us the infrastructure. Give us the training. Give us what we need to produce our food and even produce for you. Let's not listen to ourselves. The main cause over here has been in the bush since 1968. Why was he in the bush for himself? Was he not for this country? The main cause in the bush. All these leaders, you fell at this qualifying, were in the bush. All these people who are talking here were members of the Espelem Espelem one day. This business of people seeing new commas into the Espelem Espelem is a lot of rubbish. So let no one underestimate the people who are today saying we're not ready for election. These are people who have sacrificed their lives. Not because of money. There was no money then. There was blood. So let the people South Sudan not forget that the man who is leading this country's advocate went to the bush, not because he wanted money or a merit, not because he wanted a transition. He wanted the liberation and independence of this country which he has achieved. And when he is told by his technocrats, his ministers that Mr. President of the country is ready for election, he must listen. He sees the facts. Now, what will bring us to war is this anger that is in us. That if I don't get what I want, I will defend what I think I deserve. That's what took us to war in 2010. Do you remember late George Ator? Yes. Do you remember the foreign government of Awil? In Brazil? They went to war because they believed that they were very popular. But then when they failed, you know, it is a different thing being talked to by people in front of you, praising you, talking good about you. But it's another one they go secretly to now go and cast their vote. We don't want that situation. And it's really even worse because there are so many armies in the country. We have a little bit of an I/O and so on. But we still have Simon Gaguchi, female attorney. We have the Jesh, a bit of Oloan, not integrated. We have the Jesh, a bit of NAS, some of them are already here with us. We want to come for peace, some of them are already in peace, not integrated. We want to make sure that there's nobody who has an army in the hand. But when will that be done? That's the question. This is going to be done in this period. And we have been doing it, by the way. You don't even know that there are officers and soldiers from NASA who have been integrated. I'll give you the list. So we are doing this thing. We don't have to come to radio and tell you what everything we're doing day by day, night by night. No, politicians don't do that. So what we are trying to do for the people is also done is to make sure that when they go for election this time around, they can vote freely and no one will rebel. Transitions, transitions can be looked at in different ways. The transition we are doing is for welfare of this country. It's based on real, technical assessment. Are we in certain terms of security? Are we okay to go for election? No. In terms of political parties, political parties like Iowa now, like so, they have army. Can they register to become political parties? They cannot. So what we want to do this time is take the army away from them. Now we say, okay, you are now a free civilian organization, you can register as a political party. The transition we are doing is because we don't have the economic independence yet. We are not economically independent. We have the political independence, yes, but economically. We are not independent. There are people, by the way, who are controlling our economy from outside the country. We can't even take a loan. If we want to take a loan, somebody will run around and go and block you. And they are here in our country, in our country. So, we are not free yet until we are economically independent. Okay, now the question I asked earlier is that some people believe if that election was to happen, at least the current economic challenges they are going through will have been resolved. They will be paid salary on time because it is the same politicians who are delaying to pay their salaries. What is your answer to that, Honorable Dr. Martin E. Alamo? Because this is the issue, I am sure you have had it many, many times, people are complaining about it. Listen, people are complaining about salaries, correct, and that is their right. It is a contract between the citizens and the government to get them paid. But, payment is a function of economic resource. You cannot pay people if you don't have the money. Our only source of money is our crude oil. And I will not give you even excuses that it was not flowing from February. There are challenges to do with our economy and how much resources we can raise. But this one, I cannot dispute that we have a challenge. It is one of the areas we need to fix. But the reality is that we would rather have no salary than have war. Yes, Honorable Angelina, you are a member of this high-level implementation committee and as you are preparing these reports to give you the presidency and now the announcement has been done for the extension. From your point of view, what our assurances have been put in place to address the recurring challenges that has been hindering the implementation, including the issue of a trust deficit, lack of political will and lack of funding. Okay, let me start with the transitions as you said. You know, coalition governments are not easy government. Nobody would want to be in a coalition government because you can never implement your own vision. And each political party or a political person always have a vision that they want to implement. But in a coalition government, like this article is a coalition government. So we have to navigate and what we have in common as a program is the R-axis that provided the very basic for us to actually create stability and so on to take us to election. And this after the election, then now you can have the governments that are elected by the people and the rest of it. So there's nothing particular that would want to cling to in a coalition government. Except that this program is a program for peace and stability, which is the R-axis. Your other question, what is the guarantee that we would be able to at least overcome some of the challenges that prevented implementation during the roadmap? One is the fact that we are ourselves, we ourselves. And when I speak, I speak about, I speak to colleagues all the time. Nobody wants to be in this situation whereby on a daily basis you are negotiating, navigating, you know, and all of this, implementing this, implementing that. We all are united in the fact that transitions have to end. And we have to go into a government whereby we are not constantly negotiating, debating, agreeing, disagreeing and so on and so forth. This is important. And everybody feels that way that we need to move forward. Number two, if you see what the extension that we gave, one of the recommendations at the high level committee gave is that there would be now a robust monitoring and evaluation mechanism for this. And this robust mechanism, the high level itself would be monitoring and giving reports actually calling to accounts even those institutions or mechanisms that are supposed to be implementing. Sunny, you also can be part of this because you can call us every other month to say, what is your progress report? Where are your challenges? And so on. I'm taking you on now. That be part of that monitoring and evaluation. And when you call us here, as this body, don't call us to challenge on that, you have this and that. You call us to say what has happened in the last month. You follow the program that we are going to come up with the metrics for the implementation in the next 24 months. You follow them. And the whole media should be following and then they keep asking us and calling. Why have you failed here? And then so that we also, as we go along and we move along, we address challenges. And also give citizens the advice. So this is one of the things that we believe can be done differently. The other thing is we have also recommended austerities and he spoke about them. For example, now there is a sizable part of the little that comes from the oil that is still flowing that goes to infrastructure. We are saying that some of that needs to be cut in as much as we are desperately in need of infrastructure. But peace comes first. When peace is achieved, now you can actually do development, you can do whatever, you can free your resources for other things. If you have just joined us right now, you are listening to The Roundtable. My name is Arnie Martin. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. The Roundtable. Hello and welcome to The Second Hour of The Roundtable. My name is Arnie Martin. In the studio, I have my panelist, as we discussed, the recent extension of the interim period or transition period by two more years or 24 months as elections have been delayed by two more years. It was supposed to have taken place in 2024. This is 22nd of December. Now it will happen on 22nd of December, 2026. I have with me in the studio, Honorable Dr. Martin Elio Moro, Minister of Carbonate Affairs, and the Secretary General of the Higher Level Implementation Committee, Honorable Angelina Chen, Minister of Interior, Senior Member of the Spellam I/O, and a member of the Higher Level Implementation Committee. I also have with me here, Honorable Joseph Lagoon, Minister Bagar Katcha, and the Full Security Chairperson of the South Sudan Opposition Alliance, SOA, and a member of the Higher Level Implementation Committee. Our Alliance will be open to you shortly. Why are we going to give you ample time today to ask your leaders here, because they have been talking to you since in the first hour. Now it is your chance for the Second Hour to ask them, and they will be answering. I have just a few questions before we open our Alliance. I won't read this piece from Dr. Lukabung, who was supposed to be with us here in the studio, but he is not with us because he has some commitment. His daughter is not feeling well according to the letter he sent for me. He says, "So elections are not yet delayed. Based on the newly amended Constitution, the election Act of 2012 amended will be amended to trigger the postponement of election and a new election calendar. Since elections are not postponed, one wonders how Artigono will meet the legitimacy deadline of its dissolution on Sunday 22nd September. Dr. Martin, you are responsible to that. I think he has not read the agreement very well. I just would ask him to read Article 8.4 over the Arches. The parties' agreement are entitled to make any changes, and if they agree, that decision takes precedence and supremacy over the Constitution. Now, the entire process is done. Argymic, cabinet, president, president, gave the blessing. Yesterday, the parliament, what next from here now, what happens? The business is usual. We are going on, implementing and making sure the country is secure, the country is safe, working to improve our economy, and working towards implementation of all the provisions, preparing the country for election, business as usual. Just for the sake of our listeners, when will the extension come into effect? The extension is, of course, we say it is effective from the 2nd February 2025, but we still have a few months from the previous transition, which is still on. So, we are just doing business as usual. Okay. There is another comment coming in here that I should ask Honorable Dr. Martin earlier, a little more about the changes you talked about earlier within Argymic. Two members have been replaced. Is this attributed to the discordance in the manner of extension, or what is the reason behind changing these two members of SPLM IG to Argymic? No, no, no, nothing to do with that at all. Honorable would have given us a number of excuses, which made her not to be able to attend Argymic meetings, and you can go to the record, you will find this has been absent for a long time. And it's requested to be replaced. So, we had to replace Argymic. He's been away for some time. You know, he's represented the government in the too many initiative discussions, and he's been away for some time as well. We, as the high-level standing committee, wanted to make sure that we are fully represented, and we had to replace some members who are not there. That's my honorable Minister McQuay and Minister I would like to do with any differences at all. Thank you. Okay. Now, let me pick up from there before we hear from the two, and I guess Dr. Martin Elenomori mentioned the issue of Tomine, which I was about to mention. Many people have accused you of being an obstacle to the Tomine process, peace process in Nairobi. They actually say that to some extent you are not in favor of what is being discussed in Nairobi. In the Tomine peace process, first of all, what is your position on this Tomine peace process? Are you four or are you against it? First of all, these people who are accused be ignorant. I am for peace, even at my own cost. But those who have no reason, they have nothing to say, will always find somebody to blame. And I'm okay, I'm a politician. I'm always going to be subject to blame. That's one. Number two, Tomine is not from outside. Tomine is the initiative of the President because he wants a holistic peace in the country. He doesn't want to see other South Sudanese out there living in Nairobi here and planning to harm the country, planning for a billion, planning to provide negative perspective about South Sudan. So it is the President who is the President of the Artigolo, the President of the R-Axis. Nobody else. So if the President decides, along with his colleagues, that it is better for us to try to bring our brothers and sisters who are outside into default, so that we need to get to implement the agreement, who would be against it. And by the way, you give me a list of everybody who is in Tomine initiative. Were they not in the discussion that led to this agreement? They left for various reasons. So why is everybody now blaming those of us who are inside? As if these people were not part of us. They were part of us. Now, with this extension, why does it leave Tomine? Tomine is to be negotiated between the R-Axis, the Artigolo and those who are outside, those who are non-segmentary. We have to negotiate just the way we negotiate among ourselves as parties, the agreement. And by the way, when you read the agreement, you will find that they are only five partners, but that's not true. It is only I/O, which is only one group. So it has nine. I have 20. I have 12 plus DC 13. The S-Pelem I/O IG there in 2014, including the S-Pelem. OPP has 20 parties. So we are more than the group which is in Tomine. Now, also, let's see from Angelina. The S-Pelem I/O also have been accused of raising a lot of concern. We saw this from the letter that was written with the points by the chairman of S-Pelem I/O Dr. Mark Machar with the first vice president. First of all, what is your position as S-Pelem I/O in regards to the ongoing peace process in Nairobi? Peace is a continuous event that a process. I/O has been part and parcel of this process since it was in Rome. So we actually, as I/O and our chairman, Dr. Ria, when we visited Rome, when the Pope invited the parties, he has initiated and contacted San Digidio to actually help in the process. So this process we could say that we have been pushing for ensuring that everybody who is outside there must come back because, as mentioned by Honorable Martin, they have been part and parcel of the R-axis. Only they did not sign their final document, but they signed the protocols. However, when the process came to Nairobi and became too many, they have abandoned the principle, the declaration of principle, they have signed with us initially. This is number one. Number two, when we looked at the protocols, we realized that these protocols have actually, more or less, in many places, cut and paste, R-axis. So we are saying, no, too many should look at what is missing in the R-axis to address if there's a challenge that has not been addressed by the R-axis. This should be the approach. Then we look at the entry point. How do we bring them in so that they become part and parcel of R-T-Gono, so that we move on together and we build the piece that we need in this country. But instead, the discussion in Nairobi took a different approach, whereby they were looking at replacing R-axis. Why we were there as R-T-Gono, what legitimizes us as R-T-Gono to sit and negotiate was the R-axis. How can you delegitimize yourself and then, you know, you expect to bring something else in. So if there are failures and challenges with the implementation of the R-axis, which we don't deny, should have been discussed. To be initially challenged, our partners out there should have challenged us to say, look, why have you failed to implement? Let us look at the modalities for implementation and let us see how we can improve. One of the challenges is funding. If one of the challenges is funding, can too many and the partners who are supporting that too many process come in and support the implementation of the R-axis inclusive of the annex that will come with too many that would include them. So, these are the things that two main should be discussing, not looking to replace R-axis. Now, there is a sentiment going around that all what you have explained have caused division within R-T-Gono. The members who are saying to Nairobi, and there is another team here in Dubai, they are not really compromising or agreeing, and for this matter, it has really to some extent crippled the initiative in Nairobi. And even this is seen from your letter, as well as my own recording, but you are members to my Nairobi initiative. Yeah, we call back our members, let me start with that one. We call back our members after a number of efforts, trying to remind the mediation into my Nairobi. Please do not use R-axis and take and cut and face and create a new agreement. Please work on the missing links if there are areas that have not been addressed, roof cost is not addressed by the R-axis, and look at the modalities for implementation of the R-axis. And let's create an annex and let's see how you can be included to become part and parcel of the R-axis. This is number one. When they decided to ignore our members there, we were sitting redundant because they were arguing, trying to say, "Look, this is how we should approach it." They were required back. Now, the division you are talking about, it is also not a fair statement, because now as the high level committee, we have directives also, and you could see, even in the amendment, that we are going to engage and look at Timaine and what was discussed and so on, also evaluated the same way we evaluated the R-axis, and then we will come with a way forward. So, it has not been abandoned, we are not divided. Our members, like for example, the IO team, who are members of the high level committee, who are in Timaine, are still sitting with us. Also, some members from the SPLM and other members are also continuing to be. So, if I may. By the way, during the argument meeting, there are people who declared Europe, UK, Norway, declared that they support Timaine, and they did not support the extension. That means they did not support their R-axis. Can any South Sudanese tell me, what is the unknown objective of Timaine? What is the aim of Timaine? Can I ask? Can someone tell me? If Timaine does not respect the decision of the leadership of this country, if the members of Troika and EU say they support Timaine, and they begin to talk about Timaine, as if it was their initiative, Timaine is not their initiative. Timaine is the initiative of the President of the Republic of South Sudan. Timaine is supposed to be not a parallel agreement. It is supposed to be a process by which weaknesses within the Arctic can be addressed. Should South Sudanese still have hope on the Timaine peace process? Do they even know what Timaine is? Do South Sudanese know what Timaine is? You tell me? I don't know. Okay, let's say I'm from the SOA position. What is your position on the Timaine peace process? Well, you shared the same sentiment. We all acknowledge that Timaine was an initiative of his Excellency President of the Republic. But what became concerning is the outcome of Timaine. Indeed, we looked at the proposals that have been given to us. And as the high-level specialized committee, we have evaluated and we have looked at possible contradictions with the RRCs. And we have come out with a number of points. So, I think what is clear is that Timaine was initiative of the President. Yes, the South Sudanese who are holding out are South Sudanese. And we do want to see them joining the peace process. But the peace process that they should join is the RRCs. Okay, now there is a misperception that RRCs has failed and therefore it should be thrown away. But what are we doing about the relative peace that RRCs has brought to the country? If there are difficulties with RRCs, do we throw it away? Do you throw away the baby because it's crying? You throw the baby away with the bathtub? No, we are saying no. RRCs, you know, Timaine will be looked at now that we have extended, you know, the RRCs. Timaine will be looked at the space, you know, for Timaine. Timaine can be accommodated. What cannot be done is to replace RRCs with Timaine. This cannot happen. Okay. Yes, our lines are open. You can call us on 091, 206, 2079 or 091, 206, 2950 and ask your questions. And I will also be reading some of the comments and questions coming in via our Facebook page. My name is Ani Martin and in the studio I have three of my panelists for this roundtable. Discussed on this weekend, Honorable Dr. Martin Inlea-Alo Moro Minister of Cabinet Affairs and Secretary General of the High Level Implementation Committee. We also have Honorable Angelina Tien, Minister of Interior, Sena Espelem, I/O Member and a Member of the High Level Implementation Committee. Honorable Joseph Lago, Minister of Agriculture and Food Security, Chair Person of Vassoa and a member of the High Level Implementation Committee. And we are discussing more about the recent extension of the transition period by 24 months. All is done and according to the Minister of Cabinet Affairs, the parties are ready to go and begin work. Immediately following the endorsement yesterday here by the Parliament. Hello everybody. Hello? Hello? Yes, your name. Hello? Okay, maybe I can drop. Hello? Yes. Good morning. Good morning to your name. This is me, I just want to ask you in a cinema. Okay, Isaac, if you can go straight away to your question, I would appreciate that. Thank you so much. First and foremost, with the citizen of this country, a lot of over our leaders. Because why do I say this? They are for their own interests. Because they have not seen the way you are suffering with the citizens and they also have sending the elections every time. Because they are in the position. And we see, if we are not in the position, where should we eat? Who will secure us? Who will even provide us the periods to go and cultivate? Why do I say this citizen effort has been ever hesitated over this extension? And I think that in 2026, they will easily extend. One of the more say that we don't have enough things to do things in the country, should it affect that they will be having a lot of money to capture the successful defense in 2016. They have the money. If we go to any personal account now, then the people working in the government, they are the people taking the money of this country. Okay. Thank you so much. Isaac, your question has been taken and it will be answered here. Hello? Hello. Good morning. Good morning to your name. David Mogok from WOW. Okay, David from WOW. Go ahead, David. Senator Martin, there is something saying that war is better than bad peace. Dr. Martin, there was one time you were talking about that extension of roadmap. And he said, "You are sure, sir, that is that we are going to implement this because it is the son and daughters of South Sudan who have agreed and revised their lives for this one to be extended. That we are going to implement it by letter on the spirit. Unfortunately, they have failed now and have done that. Good, what happened?" Okay. Hello, David. Okay, maybe the network in WOW. But we have got to a point. The Honorable Minister said one time here that this is their own document. They were implemented in letter and spirit. What happened is the question. It has been taken. Hello. Good morning. How are you? I'm good. Your name? Okay, speaking with Peter. Go back. Okay, Peter from WOW. Yes. Go ahead, Peter. Okay, thank you. So, my question is going to explain that thing. Mm-hmm. So, my question is this. Sorry, we are the leaders of this country. So, and I will question her in the wishing of the elections. So, the election was suspended for that. We won't hear that. There will be a election. So, and the election was suspended again in the country, especially for us here. So, all this time, we are just hoping that there will be elections. That was something happening with the President, the thing that I have put my year in the election. So, and the President, again, is the election. So, what the President should be going to see is that there will be change in the election before at least two years of election. Now, sir, it's just the facing of a lot of things. What is your question? My question is this. So, now, sir, spend the election like this. So, will you come out to inform the elections? I mean, to public that there's so many people. Now, you see, especially those who are in villages that don't know, they are not listening of the radio. And just to see the things of the election, are you going to be able to inform the public that the election was suspended? Okay. All right. Thank you so much. I'm talking about awareness. What will be done by the article to ensure that the message of the recent extension reaches the wider corners of South Sudan. Let's begin with that. Another question here, which is similar to that, is the parties failed to disseminate the rebuttalized peace agreement has stipulated. There has never been any wider dissemination by the parties to really enlighten the public about some of these crucial activities that were supposed to be implemented. And this has not happened. Is it part of the -- has that article been carried forward into the new extension? This is coming from Joan here in Jubeo. So, this honourable can combine that together. Thank you very much. Actually, it's -- you kind of partially answered the question because the next stage is very important that we disseminate the peace agreement. And this time, it has been budgeted for even when we were discussing the budget before the extension. The dissemination of peace agreement was recognized to have been lagging behind. Most of it was left for NGOs and so on. But now the Ministry of Peace and other institutions and mechanisms have been clearly directed and the budget is put in our next budget for the dissemination of peace. And this is how we'll make people aware. This is answered also the question of Peter. Make people aware of basically the extension and why was it necessary and what can be the role of our public in ensuring this. Now, let me go straight to also what Isaac was saying, but he's saying they need a election, a citizen. But then he's saying who will secure us. He's also saying we are hungry. And this reminded me of some of the research that have been done on whether or not our people won election or not. There have been about three research that have been done. So you'll find people saying we won election. But then they would also express fear at the same time that we fear security and insecurity. The very reason why we had to extend is to ensure that the public is secure. The parties are having the confidence to be able to go on campaign without fears and so on. So this is one of the key reasons that people had to extend right now to create that security. Like he asked the question who will secure us. Once you actually finish completing the implementation of chapter two and you kick start the transformation and so on. For example, in the Ministry of Interior now, we are responsible for securing the election. We have already started working on a number of issues, including legal frameworks, policies. And we are now thinking on what to go into the training of the police. Even how much police will be needed, the equipment that is going to be needed. So there is a lot of work going into that in order. But this one would not be enough unless you also unified the whole security sector. And then this security is provided by all the new unified police and so on. And then supported by the other agencies. And also David was talking about what happens now that we have extended. Last time you said, you know, this will happen. So what happened now is that really we really have to double efforts. First of all, we have identified the challenge of resources as a big challenge. So we're going to be looking into not only tapping into our resources, but also engaging others, including those who decided to abstain and not support this. If they're supporting to me, any is basically because they want to support dialogue. They want to support peace in South Sudan. Let's do it together. Let's not do it like give and take and say, "Oh, this must go so that this one comes in." Yeah. If it's not about change of personalities or people. R-axis have addressed all the root causes of the conflict in the Republic of South Sudan. Now, if you say that R-axis has not been implemented and that let's bring in a new agreement, what are you changing? Maybe you're changing actors. So have you changed the whole environment? And even these actors, it doesn't address the concern. So basically, it's about looking at what really made R-axis not to be achieved. And this is what we're now embarking on as high-level committee, and we also want your support. Media, by the way, you're a very crucial actor here. I always describe media and civil society as the fourth and the fifth pillars of a democratic government. So you have a role. Okay. Now, before we hear from other guests, there is another question here. You have to finish before we go to Dr. Martin Elle Alomorro. This is coming from Albino, O'Rasho, and he is asking about one. My question goes to Dr. Honorable Angelina. He says one of the major challenges is funding. And you have explained the issue of funding, which we have to some extent agreed. He won't find out who do you blame for the slow implementation of the R-axis agreement in the last two years, as it was extended. The second part of this question is why is the S-Pelemio chairman, the first vice president, Dr. Machar, not allowed to move freely in South Sudan. And they also mobilize resources for the implementation of this revitalized peace agreement. Okay. Two very important questions. At this juncture, because we need to move forward, blame game is not going to work. So we have assessed as the high level committee. We have come up to recognize that the agreement, 10% fully implemented, 33% on progress, 57% pending. So now this is the task before us. We all recognize that. And this is a very, very critical finding for us. So I'm not going to talk about whom to blame. I'm going to talk about how do we move forward to make sure that the pending, the 57% is achieved, that the in progress is completed. Of course, some of the in progress will not be completed because there are actually activities that would also end with the transition because there are some of them are continuous and the rest of it. So this is now our efforts, our focus. And as I, this is what we are going to work to ensure that all the parties work together to address this issue of funding. Why the chairman of. Yeah, it's not moving. This is not for me to answer. But it's for the article. It would have been more appropriate if you put that question to my colleague. But these are also some of the issues that we are going to be addressing now that we are moving forward. Okay. What have been the challenges? Have we been working harmoniously? Have we been utilizing all our efforts and resources and all of this when people talk about freedom? It includes freedom of movement, freedom of expressions for all the members. It includes also, you know, ensuring that all the parties are also on an equal playing field that would allow us to actually have equal access to everything, whether it's public to talk to, whether it's engaging others so that they contribute to the implementation of the piece. Okay, yes, Dr. Martin, there is a, you have a number of questions from David Magok in, while says you had promised that yes, this roadmap was owned by the sons and daughters of this country. But now here you are again coming to explain to the people's house, then that we are extending. Another question is coming from Albino Oracio and he's asking. My question goes to Dr. Martin Elia Lomorro, the Minister of Cabinet Affairs. You have a lot in your entry which should be implemented within these two years. He has mentioned some of them. First of all is the constitution making process, the unification of S2 and the redeployment of the forces, the repatriation of refugees and IDPs, sensors will all this be implemented within two years. That's coming from Oracio. And also another question here from our Facebook page is saying that what is the exact source of funding this time around? Is it from the Nanoi revenue or from the oil? Because we know that is now in crisis, where do you think money will be coming from? Okay, yes. First of all, let me begin with the ratio. You know, the assessment, the technical assessment was based on the articles that were supposed to be implemented. And when we assessed the roadmap, there are 153 items, 171 articles and activities to be implemented. There are 10% which are completed and 33% which is in progress and 56% which are outstanding. Now, the total number of articles and chapters are not necessarily directly related to elections. We actually have only Chapter 1, Chapter 2 and Chapter 6 on permanent conditional making. Now, the chapters that have articles are directly related. The other articles, Article 3 on humanitarian assistance and construction. We have Article 4 on finance. Article 5 is relevant, but is an enabling chapter. It is on financial justice and accountability. So, we are going to focus on those areas which are directly related to elections. In Chapter 1, we only have, by the way, Article 19 on construction and restructuring of the commission. That's a place finished. But because one or two parties have not submitted their list, we marked it outstanding. Then there is the question of the Constitution, which is the main thing in Chapter 1. And then the Constitution, there are two others related to the Constitution and that is the review of the National Election Act to conform with the provisions of the permanent constitution and then the establishment of the judicial court. These ones are dependent on the permanent constitution. So, in that chapter, the main one is the Constitution, which needs 18 months. Chapter 2 is Phase 2. Phase 2 is about those forces of the other parties, the agreement that have forces which are still in assembly to be now contained, to be now trained, to be now graduated and deployed. That shouldn't take too long. So, the areas we will target. We will first track the Constitution. And the reason we don't agree as parties to use the current Constitution is because they are part of our components. The parties with the agreement insist that there are important things to be included in the permanent constitution, specifically the question of federalism, the system of government. That's why they disagreed that we could not use the current transition. Otherwise, the current transition is good enough. It has been the one that is managing the country since we signed the agreement in 2018. So, the issues which we are going to focus on will make sure that those that are really directly with the election will be addressed. Now, in 2018, the total budget for the agreement was $280 million. That was done before the institutions concerned understand what it involves, what are the things they need. Now, this time around, the total budget is $640 million. The Security Sector alone is asking for $133 million, and the political groups, the National Election Commission, the National Election Commission, the political parties cancelled, the National Bureau of Statistics. They are asking for $430 million. Now, ask yourself, I think somebody asked the question, where will you get the money from? It is only oil that we are relying on, which is not running. Now, if the oil begins to run in the next three months, we don't know. According to technical experts, it will take us another seven months before we can actually read the maximum production level that we used to get, which is $155,000 a day. So, we are in a fix, and that's why we had to delay the election, because the reality of getting this money even to only focus on critical articles and sub articles that will take us to election was difficult. So, we will look at the provisions of all the six chapters that are in the roadmap, and refocus on those that are really, really important for the election take place, including the making of the Constitution. There are some of us who believe that the Constitution can be done in a year, and that's something that we are going to try to drive forward to. I think we have explained why, for example, David, I've had to backtrack on the promise I made when we were presenting the roadmap. The same challenges remained, David, and the animal in the room is funding. If we have funds, and I hope David can talk to somebody somewhere to divine intervention to give us the money, we will prove you that we will do this very fast. We want to do this agreement, we want to finish this agreement, we want you to elect your leaders. We are tired of being insulted, tired of being blamed, even for things which we have not done, you know, but the responsibilities make us to hang on and to see the country towards the election. We want you to deliver the country out of this cockman, which we are in, and to send a frustration of Isaac, you lost trust because of the challenges, economic challenges, difficulties of life and so on. I have not heard of a government in this world where the citizens are not complaining, even in America they are complaining. So when you elect your leaders, Isaac, you will still complain one day. I hope you will be one of them. One that who is to blame for the slow implementation, you blame lack of funding. I know people have been saying Dr. Lyak has been not allowed to travel. I don't know whether Dr. Lyak actually told them that he applied to travel because we have a system. If you are to travel, any minister wants to travel, you feel a form, you get approval. For ministers, they bring their form to me. I will look at it, I go and consult with the president, and I get okay. I believe if Dr. Lyak wants to travel, it's a matter of writing to the president wants to travel. I don't know where these people who are out there, whether it's their imagination or whether they are telling them. I did not hear that Dr. Lyak applied to travel, and he has not requested. If I'm being told he requested, I've never heard. Okay. So if I'm the chief minister in the government, I've never heard that he has requested to travel, and that I could be his form. Maybe. Who is telling this person outside that he was not allowed? Okay. Yes, we have questions here coming to Josephine, but we need to pick more, and we'll combine them together, and Josephine will begin answering right away. Hello. Hello. Yes, sorry. Yes, your name. Lawrence Lado. From Juba here. From Juba here. Okay, Lawrence, go ahead. I would like to prepare the honorable ministers. My question is just briefly, you know, it is not all about the extension, but the mechanism of implementation is a one of the challenges. Sometimes they do talk like this, at the end they will go and they look on the top three pillows for getting everything. And then they will come and also rise at the last minute. This is one of the challenges. Okay. All right. Thank you so much. Mechanism is one of the challenges. Hello. Hello. Hello. Yes. Your name. I'm Gabrielle Simon. Okay. Okay. Okay, Gabriel from Simon, Simon from what, right? Wow. Yes. Okay. Go ahead. Thank you so much. My question goes to all the leaders in the studio. There are artists at second time, and according to what we got or what we have read, the other day that 90% has not been completed. And this piece has taken three years. The other two years for the year of the roadmap. And 90% has not been implemented. Will they be able to implement this in two years time? That is one. Number two. A question goes to honorable minister, Dr. Martin Yello Morro. It was a close to up to nine millions of ballots. And when asked by the parliament, directed it to the end of the nation, that it was directed by the end of the nation to do it. Same season, still a member in this piece. Will things be okay? Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay. Hello. Good morning. Yes. Your name? You have cut me out and you did not allow me. You are network was there. If you can just go straight to your question. It's not me. You are networking. Wow. This is me. My question was to the minutes of governor. My question was to the citizens are suffering and the reason why you want to make peace, it is for the people of South Bend to have food. By now you are accommodating and not giving salaries. The citizen. Why are we the problems? Why is it an argument funny? This was number one. Number two was to Mama Angelina. Mama Angelina was explaining very well about the welfare of the agreement. But agreement have been abused several times. Is it the years that are the problem or the politicians who failed in Colombia? Okay. Thank you. Hello, everybody. Hello. Hello. Hello, Santa Barbara. Yes, your name. This is your calling from Europe. Okay. Go ahead, sir. From Europe. Thank you very much for the tough. That you have brought out today. It's very important in this. To talk about this program. The reason, the time we were for independent. We were fled by our politicians. But both for independent. You will be the first class citizen in your own country. And I have the question now. We can have army, the citizen of this country. Okay. The reason we are suffering in these people talking about road is not good. Education is not going well. People are suffering. There's no nothing. So I don't think we can have our way. That's my question to the politicians in this video. Thank you so much. We have all 10 minutes for us to conclude and try to squeeze all these within these remaining 10 minutes, including the closing remarks. Honorable Josephine, there is a question here. It has already been answered. But you can give in your input that there is a way the citizens are not feeling happy about the extension. That is coming from the United States. There is no true meaning of this extension being agreed by the government and the parties of this country for another extra two years. And he says just echoing the same thing about the suffering of the people of South Sudan. What else can be done this time around to change and win back the trust of the people of South Sudan. That's from James Roy. Another question here is going also to you. Honorable Josephine, your forces have been in the containment for the last, how many years? Good news. This is from Dangi and Juba. Have we ever taken time as members of SOAR to go and visit these forces in the containment training centers and find out to what extent are they faring with life. Because the information they're getting from there is so horrible. Yes, let's begin with you Honorable. Thank you very much. Let me just respond quickly to the general question which is about the welfare of the citizens and the unhappiness and frustrations that is being experienced due to non-implementation of the peace agreement or the slow implementation of the agreement. I do agree that people have the right to feel frustrated. But I also do want to appeal that people should look at the challenges that has faced the implementation of the peace agreement very, very critically. This agreement is being implemented within the context of South Sudan. Perhaps this disagreement was anywhere else. It would have been implemented differently. But the context of South Sudan is so, so important here. We are a new nation. We are a nation that has multiple challenges. We can enumerate and make the list and the list will be very, very long. As I had mentioned earlier, I really think that our people should understand that all the changes that they are dying to see that they are looking forward to will come. But it's going to be a process and not an event. That is one. Second, the blame regarding the leaders. I do not think that the agreement has been extended simply for the sake of the political elite. What I think the leaders are genuinely feeling here is the obligation, the obligation to secure the country. In fact, it is not true that the leaders are very enthusiastic about this. But the leaders are also sacrificing to ensure that they secure this country, to be able to conduct election. They secure this country so people can have a conducive environment, not just to participate in politics, but also to get on with that day-to-day work. In fact, if we go for a election, yes, some of the politicians will come back into politics. They will win in the elections, but some may not even really want to do so. So let's be a little understanding about that. The other issue I want to quickly comment on is the trust building. One of the challenges that the agreement has faced is the issue of trust deficit. But over the last few years, I think we can generally say that the parties to the agreement, the leadership of the country has been steadily building trust among themselves. And this is good, and this will continue, and it will be able to take us to a point where we can now confidently go into election. Are the people first-class citizens or not? I think the people of South Sudan really should celebrate the fact that today this country is an independent country. It took more than 40 years for us to achieve our liberation. We are a sovereign country, and the citizens of this country are first-class citizens. The issue of welfare of the people, the issues of services and what have you. This is being addressed by the government. This government, the artygona, will not be able to address all the problems of this country. But we are laying a foundation for the next generation to be able to build on. So, if this government achieves something that is laying a good foundation, then I think the government artygona would have done its... For the interest of saying the forces at the containment side, how are they progressing? Because there are a lot of challenges, according to this question, briefly, because our time is up. Yes, we do know that the forces in the containment areas are facing challenges. Have I personally gone to view any of this? We have a system in the NTC where visits to the containment areas are organized jointly. It is not an individual who does this, and that is now in progress, it is in plan, it is a budget for that. And we will be able to actually, this time around, be actively able to go and visit our forces. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay, we are running out of time. Maybe if you can increase all the answers in two minutes. Very quickly, let me say this about the mechanism. Ladu was talking about that the problems are the mechanism. In fact, the mechanism for implementation has been suffering. They have been receiving very little fun or not at all. I share one of the mechanisms. The last funding we received in this mechanism was in 2019, December. But we never stopped doing our work. So the mechanisms are facing a lot of challenges. Some of them don't even have place to stay, and so on. They are making a lot of sacrifices, so it wouldn't be fair to blame them. They have done some great work. David was talking about the suffering of the people and the conditions and all of this. Really, for me, in the Ministry of Interior, every morning I receive a report. It gives me the prices in the market. It gives me the rate of the dollar in the day and all of this. Apart from the fact that I also run a kitchen in the house. So when you talk about suffering, I know. And I don't want to say that also some of these leaders that you are talking about, understand even a little bit more than you think. But leaders don't come and complain. Because I understand one time, one of their politicians said in his house he has over 100 people. And he has to feed every day. I have over 400 people. In your house, yes. You feed them every day. I try to. So it's not an easy... When we talk about these challenges, we are not oblivious. We are very much aware. And this can be just lamenting. But we don't want to lament. We wake up in the morning, we pray, and we try to do something a little bit better to just improve the situation. In this country, there is only one class. Your political leaders are using the same rough routes as you are using. Your political leaders are suffering the same high prices in the market as you are suffering. There is one class, but only we need to change and ensure that livelihoods improve. Okay. Thank you so much. Yes, Dr. Martin, as we conclude, we know that the sickness has been diagnosed with lack of funding. Where can we get the best doctor in the world to come and cure the sickness of lack of funding? So that from the next two years, every morning, we have the medicine for the lack of funding so that we move forward to election 2026. The doctor is your government. In the Arctic, nobody else will find money. Whether he's going to get it from friends, from donors, from partners, from whatever is the government. So it's the Arctic going to change tech and see how we can address the issue of funding. Now, let me just quickly respond to Gabriel. Gabriel, I don't know who told you that we say 90% of the provisions are implemented. We said 57%. We said 10% implemented, 33% are not implemented, and 57% are standing. So you get that right. Number two, you have used the word accused. Yes. Some politicians accused me of $10 million. I went to parliament. In parliament is there not to accuse. The parliament is there to find facts from the minister, to ask questions, to get responses. Not to accuse a minister of -- and to follow certain procedures. The procedure which was used to summon me was wrong, but still I went because I didn't want to be accused of running away from parliament. I have shown to the parliamentarians the account which they say 10 million was transferred to, and they got zero. There's no 10 million transferred to the Ministry of Government Affairs. Get this right. Some SSP was sent up to now some of them remain in the bank because the payment to the institutions that were to be paid was supposed to be in dollar. Now they paid SSP, which is now less by far from the amount these other institutions deserve. It is important that people get the right information. So the function of parliament is to check on us, to do oversight. And our job is when you respond, you have your facts. Accusations remains accusation. Whether it's a political rich hand or it is just a mayor political campaign, that remains there. But we are here to be accounted for whatever we do in our government. Ministers can only achieve the objectives of their duties if they have the funds to implement it. The functions and duties including the articles and articles of parliament. Many say it's not going to do anything. With his or her bare hands, we are a Minister of Food Security here. She cannot achieve full food security with the parts of South Sudan with the necessary funds. She is the Minister of Interior. She cannot protect civilians with police who have no guns, no radios. They cannot communicate to each other. They have no vehicles to run around to do patrol. They can't. Everything is dependent on funds. So the big boy in town to find the money is the article, not individual ministers. Not even the president, with the whole government. Okay. And you are concluding remarks in 30 seconds, from here now. What should we expect now? What are some of the key activities to be undertaken in the next five months and in the next two years? Already the chair of the High Level Committee has sent a message for a meeting on Tuesday. Next week to discuss with the security organs details of what exactly do they want to do, how much time it takes for each activity and how much cost. So that the five months that we have left from the previous transition period is used effectively to mobilize our funds, but to implement those things that are in progress, some of which may not do many. So that now we cut down an increase of percentage of achievements in terms of a judicial agreement. More importantly, there are countries already that are requesting for our budget for the implementation agreement to be sent to them. And we have prepared these budgets. We're going to take them. We're going to challenge them to make sure that they're reduced to bare minimum so that we send logical budgets to those countries and have them assist us. It doesn't have to be money. It can be just the material. Whether we need radios or guns for the police or vehicles or they want to train our election commission or the conditional commission, they want to build structures for them at the state level, those kind of things. We're not looking for money only. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. One is really we keep engaging like we're engaging now. Two, we keep informing whatever steps we take as a government, as mechanisms. We keep informing people. This is how we are moving. This is so that we also continue to build trust. Number three, we are going to look at transparency and accountability in all the things that we're doing and so on. We're not expecting a miracle, but we're expecting to build trust and confidence so that because we need the support of our public also to make sure that this transition, this extension delivers for us, all of us. We need the cooperation because like if you go to the countryside now, you know, apart from the fact that chapter two is not completed, we have many arms in the hands of the citizen. We need cooperation. We have, you know, community insecurity. This also needs cooperation. We need to work with the chiefs. We need to work with the citizen. We need to be talking. Everybody needs to be contributing to creating that environment. Okay. Thank you so much. I just finished a final remark as we conclude briefly. Okay. I think the key word here is acceleration. We just have to accelerate, you know, our fundraising efforts. We have to accelerate implementation of the outstanding tasks. And we have to accelerate election commitment among the parties to the agreement. Thank you. Thank you so much. And I would like to thank all of you for coming today for the round table. Honorable Dr. Martin Elello Moro and Honorable Angelina Taney and Honorable Justin Lagoux.