Radio Miraya
2823: DEMOCRACY in Action: The Role of Civil Society in the Peace Process
(upbeat music) Democracy in action. A program on how a state functions, featuring in-depth discussions with experts on governance, politics and decision-making. Tune in, as every week we explore the complexities of governance. What is democracy? What is your role as a citizen? All these and all in democracy in action, Thursday at 9 a.m. with a repeat at 9 p.m. at the same day, stay informed and engage with democracy in action. Radio me right, the voice of peace. (upbeat music) (dramatic music) - Hello and welcome to Democracy in Action. My name is Sarni Martin. We are coming to life from at Juba. And today we are going to be discussing the role of civil society in a peace process in our country. South Sudan, that's what we are going to be discussing. The civil society plays an important role in peace-making and peace-building. And they have become widely regarded as an important actor in any peace process in any part of the world. South Sudan is currently grappling with the implementation of the peace process, which seeks to bring about a lasting peace, a respect for human rights in our country. So, does the civil society in South Sudan have the power to reduce violence and promote stability in the country? These are some of the discussion we are going to be having with my two guests right here as our lines open to you. While you can call us at 091 to 069 or 091 to 069.50. I have already with me here, Lorna Maricaje, who is the executive director of South Sudan Democratic Engagement, Monitoring and Observation Program. Welcome to the program. - Good morning. - And also have on your much, my SUD from SUD Institute, Resacha. Future Save Us Network Founder and Inspirational Composition Founder. Welcome to the seminar. - Thank you, son. - Okay, first of all, let's begin right away with your Lorna Maricaje. You have been following the development in the country. You have been participating in almost all the peace processes in Khartoum, in Addis Ababa, in the recent to Minae, in Nairobi. And also the current ongoing implementation of dairy. But alas, please, I could move on to 2018. What role do you think the civil society have in promoting peace and stability in South Sudan? - Thank you very much, Sonny. I think the civil society have a big role to play. And one of the roles that the civil society need to play in peace processes is to ensure that the voices of the citizens are linked to the discussions and to the negotiations at the table. Number two is that the civil society need to ensure that the citizens know what is being discussed about their future, about their lives, about their livelihood, and what decisions are being taken on their behalf by those who represent them. And in this case, I would want to add by those who now purport to represent them. - Okay, and I should have asked you in the beginning, what is your view as the executive director of South Sudan Democratic Engagement and Monitoring and Observation Program about this recent extension by the government as a stakeholder to the test process? - Well, thank you very much, Sonny. My view is that I am not surprised. I was not surprised. I saw it coming. - Why? - Because they didn't prepare for elections. And I have been on media and on record saying that elections is not going to happen in December because the prerequisite, the necessary steps are not being taken. And we are not seeing it being taken. Many people were saying that, no, let's give benefit of doubt, but you cannot give benefit of doubt where you've clearly seen failure. And that then leads me to my opinion about the extension. I would want to see more details. What exactly are they going to do? The why is very clear because they have not done it. So they have extended. But how are we going to see this two years role in order for us to have elections done? Number three or number four is that, where are the people in this? People were not consulted. And Sonny, why I'm deeply disappointed is that if you look at the extension, the extension is a unilateral extension, is an arbitrary violation of human rights. The citizens have been alienated by this extension. The reason being, the extension is an amendment to the constitution. And this amendment should have gone to parliament. And article 199 of the constitution, as amended, requires that any such amendment is tabled in parliament a month before the discussion. Why are we talking about it now? Are we still being considered? - Okay. We'll have that here on the round table, this coming Saturday. So much, first of all, you are taking on the extension, and also, there are all you think civil society can be playing at this crucial moment where the voices of the ordinary citizens seems to be alienated like you've heard from Lona. - Yeah, thank you, Sanya. My view on the extension, of course, many people may be surprised, but as Lona said, we were not surprised, because we have been monitoring, we have been following up. And it was very clear that elections will not take place. We have endemic sensors. We, the electoral body and all the processes for electoral procedures were not in place. So it was obvious that elections will not take place, but our government and the parties never accepted. They were actually in denial by telling people that elections will take place, but they knew it at the back of their minds that election is not going to take place because the rest were not implemented. So the citizens, sometimes back I wrote on my social media, and I said in 2022, we had the roadmap. And jokingly, I was asking that this roadmap, I'm not seeing any roads, you know, and I'm not seeing the map. I'm trying to see my map, and I'm not seeing the roads in that, you know, because I don't know what happened to the roadmaps. We are talking of extension of the 2015, 2018, but it's actually the extension of the roadmap because we had a roadmap that was extended 2022. It was a roadmap. So we are actually extending the roadmap, actually, which was an extension to the 2018 peace agreement. So the citizens are there and they are publics, you know, they don't know what is the fate. What are we going to achieve within this 24 month that we have not achieved much of their provisions in the agreement in the last seven years? Or even from 2015, up to now, it is nine years. We haven't achieved less than 40% have been achieved if it might not be mistaken. - They say 10%. - But yeah, they say 10%. That is not achieved. - Over 700 activities that are supposed to be implemented. - Yeah, so are not implemented. So are we really going to implement this within the next 24 month, or are we going for another extension? And I wrote it that we have been in transition since 2005, until today. So next year will be 2025, and it's actually 20 years of transition. So when are we going to transition from? - The child who was born in 2005 is eligible to vote by now. - Yes, they are going to vote, but still, they don't have that opportunity to vote. - Now, what is your role here as civil society in this scenario in ensuring that also the voices of the citizens are included because I understand that the civil society should be speaking for the voice of the voiceless. - Yes, our role as a civil society are numerous. From awareness creation, like what we are doing now in this radio station, is part of our role, because many people will hear the voices and they'll know what is going on. Let me tell you, you will not get surprised that the majority of the population don't even know what is going on. They may not even know what is that extension. Imagine extension is not even translated in my own mother tongue. What is that extension? What is even being extended, you know? So our role is very clear. We have to do civic education. The people have to know their rights, and they have to know that they are part and parcel of this peace agreement. Their voices have to be heard. So that is one role. We are also, our role also is in advocacy. We are a pressure group. We have to lobby for implementation of some provisions and also for clarification of what are we going to do within this period of 24 months. And we have to monitor also, you know, there are a lot of violations that are taking place, you know, like she said, that before extension, it had to be tabled in the parliament one month before. And I think, and then it has to be discussed. This one is not discussed. And most of the citizens don't even know that there is a provision like that. So we have to create awareness and enlighten the community and the society on the importance of this, and knowing what is the affairs of the country and what is going on. Yes, Alona, do you think civil society in this country will have enough space to exercise their role in advocating for what is supposed to be done right by the leadership of this country? Like, for example, the issue of awareness is very key. Do you think you have enough space? Have you been so much involved in creating more awareness in terms of peace building in this country? - Well, thank you very much, Sunny. When you talk about space and when you talk about the civil society, what are we talking about? We're talking about the organized sector of the society. So there are several things that impact the space for civil society to participate, to create awareness or even to engage. And the engagement need to be looked at in different ways. One, engagement among ourselves as citizens and engagement with those that are taking decisions on our behalf. And I would say that all these spaces are challenged and it's difficult because you and me still remember there's an order out there that requires permission. So when people are to talk among themselves, they have to take permission to talk among themselves, which is also problematic because then it's a violation of freedom of association and assembly and expression. But also the other thing is that there's no much space to engage like the critical discussion about this extension was done without the stakeholders. And the stakeholders were only brought in to legitimize. And I'm very proud of the decision taken by some of the stakeholders and the church has made me very proud because the decision, we were not involved in the decision. We cannot be called just to come and vote. There's a right, people have right to vote or not to vote and the church chose not to vote. And I'm very proud of that because you cannot decide something already, you already doing it. And then you call other people to validate, to legitimize. It cannot be like that. So I think a lot, there's a lot, exclusion is also impacting the space in fringing on the rights to exercise or to participate is also infringing the space. But also people's attitude, you know, I have been, you all know that we commemorated the international deal of democracy. And I've been on record saying that South Sudan can best be described as an aspiring democracy. So in this, our aspiration, we aspire to see a country where we have the state, where we have the private sector, but where we have the civil society participating in shaping the country. And I think if you look at it that way, then more often they're not, the state does not understand. And when my colleague Yamach was talking about the civic education, I think the other role for civil society is to create civic to do civic awareness, not only to the citizens, but also to those who are governing. And I stand to be corrected, the 20th year's counting, we have never had a country of our own. And when we were part of Sudan, we were not taking part in those decisions. They're things that we don't know. And the civil society speak out to be able to educate us, to do things right. And that includes those in government. - Yes, before we hear from my Yamach, you have been participating, like I said in the introduction, you know, the in-depth of the RRCs, the agreement of 2018, 2015, and even recently you were in Nairobi, attending the Tummani Peace Initiative. To what extent do you think the civil society is involved in the current implementation of the 2018 peace process, given the fact that you are saying that you are happy that yesterday, the charge opted not to give the consent in endorsing the extension by two more years. Actually, I should also remind you that one of the EU's representatives also declined yesterday to endorse it. So, out of 42, Title IV voted for giving the consent seven, the not and the one, the not vote. So, right now, to what extent do you think you, the civil society, have been fully engaged, involved, consulted in the peace process, the implementation? - Well, I think the participation keeps diminishing with time. - Why do you think so? - No, it's because the parties do not like to hear critical voices. The parties like it when everything is okay, it's in their favor. But when you point out gaps, gray areas that need to be corrected, basically they don't like that. And that's why the role of civil society keep diminishing and all that I were pushing to be in that space, which is unfortunate. Because if you're not corrected, and if we don't have positive or objective criticism, then it's difficult for us to develop. And I'm seeing the same happen with the Tumaiini process. The Tumaiini process is very important. And Tumaiini in Kiswahili is hope. But then who's hope? Is it the South Sudanese hope? Or is the hope for political elite? If it's hope for South Sudanese, then we want to see more participation of the citizens and through the non-political stakeholders in the process. But sometimes some discussions are held without involvement of the non-political stakeholders. Again, I would say that sunny implementation of the 2018 agreement, which was just copy-pested and branded as roadmap. That's why you didn't find the roadmap, isn't it? Is that the implementation largely deviated so much, and it's happening from the high-level standing committee. And high-level standing committee doesn't have non-political stakeholders. So basically, that's how the civil society and the citizens, the departure point was by that particular tendency of everything happening at high-level standing committee. Right. Yes, the same question. Why is it very important to include the civil society in the peace process in South Sudan? All right, thanks once again, Sani. That question, it's actually what we want to hear. And it's very important to include the civil societies, as we said. You know, the roles of civil, let me tell you first the function of the civil societies in every country. We have several functions for civil society. And one of them is, you know, because we are talking of peace process or peace negotiations or peace building, you cannot talk of building peace if you do not have conflict or wars. So the civil society organization or groups or individuals, it can be researchers and all. First of all, it's actually they act as, you know, observers. We may not be present on the negotiation tables, but we can observe from far or within around and see what is happening and how the negotiations are going through, because in every negotiations, there are breakout sessions where people have to go for consultation among themselves. So within here, the observers can come in and observe how the whole process is going on. And actually, they can communicate or even advise how things are going, bring them back to those one who are not on the tables and try to get consultation. So one of the role is to be as observers. We also have protection, you know, like you're bringing people together, and these are wearing parties. So civil society organization can act as a link where we made half-negotiation zones that are set aside and you bring the wearing parties. And when you have those places, of course, the rules will be like, nobody's going to get there with arms or with any weapon or anything. So that when you provide protection and other wearing parties, who may actually feel threatened, will feel at peace and safe to negotiate, which here they have actually help in and ensuring that. Then we have monitoring, like Lana said, and from the organization, there is monitoring part of it. We monitor the negotiations, monitoring before and within the negotiation and after the negotiations. Like now, the civil society is monitoring the implementation of the art artists, the implementation of the roadmap or even this extension, we are monitoring. What are the steps, what are they going to take? So we monitor the steps that are going to take place. We monitor violations that may take place and all this. So we have to monitor and then we have the other role. It's advocacy. We have to advocate. We have to lobby. We have to pressure the wearing parties, the parties, the people that are involved in any agreement, if the agreement is done, then we have to lobby for implementation of all the provisions in the agreement. So the civil society is a key. And if they are pushed away, then nobody is going, we are like a mirror. You see yourself, if you have something in your head, you have to remove it. So when we talk, when we reflect voices, we are in between the government and the society. So you are here, you hear the voices of the society through here and what the government has discussed. We also take it to the society. So we are like a mirror. And we have to advocate for provisions, like myself, I'm an environmental activist. And in the RRC 2015 and all this, there was provision of enactment or formation of environmental management authority in which up to now nobody is talking about. So we have to pressurize the government to come up. We have to pressurize for the enactment of environmental bill, which is still in the parliament. Some of the organization have actually helped so much. We just had the ratification of the Nile Basin framework in the initiative agreement, which was just passed by the parliament. And now it is in the African Union in Addis Ababa. And on the 30th or 13th of next month, it's actually the union is going to actually adopt it. You know, this was through some pressure group that was pressurizing that we have to rectify it. We cannot use the 1925 or 50 agreement on the Nile water. You see, so there is so much importance when we advocate because we have to pressure the wearing parties on some implementation of some provision. Then we have service delivery. You know, when we have all this, the peace process, they are also the victims and the groups that are vulnerable and all this, they need services, you know, to even sustain them so that they're also part of the negotiations. - Right. If you have just joined us right now, you're listening to Democracy in Action. My name is Sani Martin and in the studio, I have two of my guest, Lorna Maricaje, who is the executive director of South Sudan Democratic Engagement, Monitoring and Observation Program. I am much my from this should institute to research a future service network founder, inspirational conversations founder. And we are discussing about the role of civil society in peace building in South Sudan. If you have got any question, please do call us on 091, 2062079. Oh, 091, 2062950 or you can also send us your comment or SMS number 091, 2177141. Those are all our contacts we can get in touch with us here and I will be reading some of your SMS we have heard from them. You can now call us and be part of our combat session. Hello, Ramiara. Hello. Hello. - Hello, Sani Martin. - Yes, your name. (speaking in foreign language) - Okay. (speaking in foreign language) - Okay. (speaking in foreign language) (speaking in foreign language) - Okay. Yes, hello, Ramiara. Hello. (phone ringing) - Yes, this one here is coming. There's another SMS here. So we have a couple of SMS coming in here. This is coming from Deng and Deng is asking, it seems like the government penetrated the civil society a long time ago and dismantled some of them fled the country and those who are left here are so much afraid of their life. They can't criticize the government. He won't find that from Lorna Maricadia. I have not seen any statement that has been signed by a civil society group giving their opinion about the extension. What is happening? Then another SMS here is saying after the extension by the government now, what role do you think the civil society can put in place to make sure there will be no further extension? Then another SMS is saying, what are the challenges facing civil society, activities in South Sudan? This is coming from Moga in the area of the county, Central Dakota State. Yes, maybe much we can begin with that. The challenges. - The challenges facing. - Yes, society in South Sudan has tried to embark on peace building in this country. - All right, thank you so much again. - Moga, the civil society space has a lot of challenges and we can talk of the space also as Lorna say that it's being diminished. That's mean it's actually we have a very small space and we heard there was an order. You know, for in order you want to do something you have to take permission from the government for you to be allowed to do that. So the challenges are numerous. Of course, there is a threat sometimes. People are afraid that if you talk, you can be apprehended or anything can happen to you. We have challenges also the funding. Most of activities if you want to do workshops, some of them because when people hear civil society they just hear critics. But actually civil society are not critics. Civil society are actually part and parcel of the society that are trying just to see that there is a loophole somewhere here. It's not all about loopholes. Sometimes it says about lobbying and formulating new things like you can come up with new ideas, innovations and tell the government or the state to adopt it or else go and talk to the community to also adopt something. So it's not usually about negative, it's positive part. So for us to carry out side things we need funding. And if you can see now funding also from donors and from other sponsors may not be available. Sometimes the country is having issues with sanctions, with all this. Some other international organizations may not want actually to siphon their funds into the country. So that one become a very big challenge that we have a lot of activities. We have a lot of city education that we want to do. Carry out workshops and all this. And most of the civil society organization cannot actually manage it. We also have, you know, we know the country is facing a lot of challenges. The conflict itself, there are areas that the civil society organization cannot reach where they can really take deliver services or even go and do civic education. Because of the conflict they cannot reach some places. We also have this conflict, economic problems coupled with impact of climate change. You know, some places are inaccessible. There are floods, there are everything. So, you know, like me going to a unity state or to this side of Greater Pine Gag and you want to go and talk to people about the extension. Will they hear you? Because they're in water. So the first thing that they want to get is their safety from the water and being taken from these flooded places to higher grounds, bring them food because now there's a lot of food insecurity in those places. So this impact of climate change are also a big challenge to the civil society organization to now talk about other issues. And from time to time, our activities will also be channeled to a certain, you know, certain phenomena that is taking place at a time. So that's also another challenge. And lack of political will, you know, which is also we are seen as enemies. And in the real sense, we're not enemies. - Okay. - So yeah, they're numerous. I think Lona was... - Okay, yes. Lona, this question, no later so far from the civil society group and expressing their frustration about the extension or supporting it or even giving the way forward. What is the problem? And he also says that it seems like the civil society have been compromised. - Well, thank you very much. The civil society is all of us plus him. And one, we have been writing statements. And perhaps if he has not seen, but there are statements that few other groups, other colleagues have made and some of us continue to speak on media, we, there are different ways of communicating the same message. But I agree with him. This extension, as I say, did not take us by surprise. This extension does not, we don't have to put our dissatisfaction on a statement, but we have to analyze. So at the moment, what we are doing, what many of us are doing is collecting these papers. What is coming out of these discussions of political actors and analyze that. We will definitely tell them what we think should be done in the coming two years. And I hope the consultation, many people will share their opinion as well. And I hope they are reading. Somebody asked a question, Nimeri asked for Nimeri. - Nimeri, yes. - Nimeri, thank you very much for asking that question. We even don't know how it reached to this point. You know, the discussion was done away from people, but they, they, what I would say is that they failed to do, to prepare for elections. And they have reached a point. They know they cannot conduct the elections. And the pressure, actually, people need to know. The pressure that made the political elite to be talking right now is because election, election act requires that government is dissolved by 22nd. So they realize that they're not having election. Will they be dissolved? - If they are dissolved, who is going to remain? And it's basically not about us. It's about them. It's a dilemma. It's a crossroad that they found themselves in. Then they had to talk because they cannot keep quiet. The clock is ticking and ticking louder. So this, this is quite interesting. But I think one thing I would like to say is that as the two-year extension is already taken up, I would like us to, as citizens of this country, one, we need to look at the preamble of our constitution. We have to do what we need to do. The constitution requires that we participate. When we say we, the people, are committed. It's us. So what is our commitment? We have to put it out there. Number two is if you look at article two of the constitution, it's the sovereignty. It's vested upon us. What are we doing with it? I think in the two years, it's time for us to organize. And one of the things that civil society do is organize, analyze, and act as a group. I think we need to organize, analyze what the parties are doing on our behalf and speak to them as a group, but also bring out the individual voices to point out their gaps. People are saying that the civil society are always criticizing. The civil society gets to organize itself to make things right. If everything is good, if there are hospitals in our villages, if the roads are paved, if there is security, why would I come tell a government that congratulations, we are very comfortable. That is not that one is said at the ballot. Right now they don't want to go to the ballot because they don't know, they know that we don't have hospitals. People are living in water. So we need them at the ballot box. Those who want to represent us, we should choose them through the ballot. The judgment there. Yes. And that has been now pushed to 2026. We hope it will happen. 2026, 22nd December, 2026. There is a question here coming from Job Call. Yum did from Kwat South County and says, most parts of our country have been engulfed by anti-communal violence. This has taken many lives. Many people have lost their properties. And this is not being addressed holistically by both the county, Piam state level. And even the national government have sometimes failed to address this. What do you think can be done to curtail this mushrooming inter-communal violence across the country? Well, thank you very much. I think we have been complaining. And since independence, 2013, they fought among themselves. We were victims. We were shocked. 2016, we were shocked but angry. Right now, they're extending. And we're wondering what's going on. But I think this is time for citizens to go back to the drawing board. One, we need to analyze. Where is the conflict coming from? We did some work on understanding the root causes of youth unrest in this country. And I will say this without biting an eyelid. That sometimes the political actors in this country have a hand in what is happening at sub-national level. As citizens at sub-national level, we need to ask these politicians. The sentiments you bring here, is it about us or is it about you as a person? Because sometimes the tribe or the ethnic community has been used not for the interests of the ethnic community but interests of individuals. People would fight among themselves but when they come back, all of them are sitting under trees without services, without medicine for their children. But they fought because a politician who is very comfortable far away instigated that. I think we need to stop that. Okay, and finally, let's begin with you. As we conclude our discussion, I know we don't have much time. First of all, what is the way forward? How do we move from here? We are now aware that there will be an election in this country in 2024. We saw a lot of political rallies happening and those men here and there. And this has gone to a waste. Right now, what role do you think the civil society can take over from here as we head towards a new two more years without citizens being given chance to elect their own leaders of their own choice? All right, thanks once again, Sunny. To me, I think the role of civil society now within the two-year extension, we are complaining. But I think it's a high time for us to stop now the complaint because there's nothing we can do about it. It has already been extended and we have to accept it. But we have to take a role to pressurize the parties to actually implement all the provisions that have not been implemented in the previous years. One of them, like we have the unification of the forces. We have many of them, many of them, the provisions that actually led to the extension of this. So we have to be on our toes and keep the government alight. And if there is a way not to let them slip, we will not let them slip. Okay, thank you so much. Yes, I don't know. Thank you very much. I think what we need to do moving forward is we need to ask the question of who are we in this country. And if we ask citizens, then we need to educate ourselves. Regardless of civil society coming to tell you, we have to educate ourselves. What ordinarily do citizens do? And if we ask citizens, whose interest is being discussed? I think for me, the next two years, that is how we should look at. And I even encourage people to set up a timeline to start planning for these institutions because the institutions are not planning. So we should maybe propose plans for them. For the Commission, you should do ABCD in this coming two months, three months, four months. We need to tell them, even Constitution Review Commission, what are they waiting for? They should act. They should give us an opportunity. We will show them how they should do that work on our behalf. To conduct elections in December 2026, the government says they need over a billion dollars. That's for another day. Thank you so much. I learned America, and yeah, for coming. My name is Sani Martin, and join me next Saturday. We shall be having the round table here next Saturday from 8 to 10. We will be discussing all these with the stakeholders. We will be having the Minister of Cabinet Affairs. We will be having also the senior members from SBLMIO. We will also be having people from the South. So there are no personal alliance. Plus analysts will be discussing more about the extension. Stay tuned. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪