Here's another show you can enjoy in the true story FM family of entertainment podcasts. Hey Pete, ever wonder what Steven Spielberg's favorite film is? You know, Andy, I've heard he loves classics like Lawrence of Arabia, maybe in St. Louis. Imagine chatting with him about why those films resonate with him so much. That's exactly what we do on our podcast. Movies we like. We've had incredible guests like actress Dee Wallace, cinematographer Eric Mezerschmitt, director Steve Miner and former Disney animators Tom and Tony Bankroft. They share their favorite films and the impact they've had on their careers, offering fascinating insights into the craftsmanship and storytelling techniques that make these movies so special. If you're curious about the magic behind the scenes, subscribe to Movies We Like from True Story FM on your favorite podcast app. New episodes are released on the fourth Monday of each month with early access for our members. Join us on Movies We Like as we explore the movies we all like with the people who make them. And Steven, our people will call your people. Let's make this happen, Bubby. Subscribe today. What's up most excellent friends? It's Chrissy and Nathan from the most excellent 80s movies podcast. It's a podcast where a filmmaker and a comedian and their most excellent guests adventure their way through the 80s movies we think we love or might have missed with our grown up eyes to see how they hold up. Join us for a delightful discussion. Rolicking recaps. Ratings and deep cut recommendations. Plus members get some extra fun chit chat with the hosts after the show. Download the most excellent 80s movies podcast today at truestory.fm. Or find it wherever the finest podcast are stored. And do remember to keep the most excellent 80s movies podcast motto in mind. Be excellent to each other and... Party on dudes. Hello and welcome to this rebroadcast episode of Super Hero Ethics. Friends, a couple weeks before we went on hiatus, we were talking a lot about Batman and the Cape Crusader show. And we wanted to give you a throwback that 'cause it wasn't that long ago that Kevin Conroy, the voice of Batman and Bruce Wayne in Batman, the animated series, many things that came off after that, that Kevin Conroy passed away. And it gave myself and Paul Hoppe and comic book fan extraordinaire Jessica Plummer, a wonderful time to really talk about Kevin Conroy, his understanding of Batman and what that lent to really everything we know about Batman from then on to today. The Cape Crusader show as we talked about really felt like it was set in a similar world to Batman the animated series. So this is a good time to go back and think about how was Kevin Conroy so important and how does that legacy live on? Please enjoy this episode and if you like it, of course, please think about becoming a member, only $5 a month, $55 a year. You get access to free content, bonus content at the end of episodes, and you get to help us keep the lights on. And whether or not you do that, please think about sending us some feedback. TikTok, Twitter, you can search for the ethical panda or just go on our website, theathlicopanda.com or just look in the show notes. Send us your thoughts on this episode or any episode we've shared with you recently. We'd love to hear your thoughts, we'd love to share them and discuss them on an upcoming episode. Thank you so so much, we have spoken. Hello and welcome to this bonus episode of Superhero Ethics. If you've listened to many of our episodes, especially any that we talked about Batman, you know, Kevin Conroy was someone we truly cherished as one of, if not our favorite portrayal of Batman. Well, unfortunately, recently he passed away and Paul and I decided to do a small mini episode just to kind of honor and tribute and talk about why his contributions to Batman have been so important. And we couldn't really do that without bringing in DC's super fan, Jess Plummer, because I found this is the one time I can get her to say good things about a Batman portrayal. So, you know, even though Superman's great too, today we're going to be talking about Batman and Kevin Conroy and his little mini episode. So thank you so much and we'll be right back after this commercial break that I would like to be from Wayne Enterprises, but we'll see. Welcome back, this is Matthew, your host. I am joined as almost always by definitely not a host, Mr. Paul Hobby. Paul, how are we doing today? Yeah, I mean overall doing pretty good, you know, bummed on the current topic, of course. For sure, for sure. And Jess, as I said, you're recurring. I'm so glad you made with us because I know this was a topic that was really important to you. Yeah, yeah, I would echo Paul that I am real bummed. It's very sad. I wish we didn't have to record it, but I'm glad I'm recording it with you too. For sure. Ditto. And so Jess, let's start with you because I know we've joked about how Batman isn't your favorite, you're more Superman woman, but that you really do love all the DC stuff. And, you know, I know you mentioned that you were really affected by Kevin Conroy's passing. So talking about what his portrayal of Batman meant to you. Yeah, you know, it's funny because I was surprised by how much it affected me. Like you said, I'm definitely more of a Superman fan in general. And honestly, like even though the Batman The Animated Series, which was Kevin Conroy's first time in the role, premiered in 1992 when I was math eight. So he's basically been Batman my whole life. Like he's been Batman since I knew what Batman was. But I didn't actually like superheroes as a kid. And I was like, if I turned on the TV and it was a superhero cartoon, I'd be offended because to me, cartoons were about like, you know, somebody hitting somebody else in the face with a pie, which, you know, wasn't really happening in Batman. I guess the Joker would do it, but it'd be a murder pie and it doesn't have the same spirit. Not quite like a Sylvester in 24. No, exactly. And so I'd always be like, change the channel and go find death tales or something. But when I got into comics and superheroes in high school and college, it was really like Batman The Animated Series was as it is for so many people jumping off point for me, even though of course it'd been off the air for a very long time. Justice League was on the air and that, you know, again, had Kevin Conroy as Batman. And I have since gone back and watched it. I was literally watching it like Thursday night and then check Twitter on Friday morning and he had passed, like, even though I didn't grow up with it, I still feel like I grew up with it because it was always there and he was always there. Yeah, no, I, like I said, I was surprised by how much it affected me. But I cried a lot, may cry in this episode, no promises. You know, it's an emotional topic. Paul, what about for you? Because I know I certainly remember the animated series being a big part of like my high school years. I didn't watch it much myself at that point, but a lot of my friends did in our mutual friends circle who was talking about a lot. Were you watching it as it was coming out or do you only get into it later? Yeah, I didn't really watch The Animated Series when it was out. I was aware of it and, you know, I might have seen a bit of it here and there. I actually grew up a Superman kid, you know? The Superman 1 and 2 came out either just before I was born the first one or like when I was very little. You know, I mean, I had my hair done by one of the village people's boyfriends with like the little curl and everything when I was like four or five and like went to school and like a full like Superman outfit and was and actually got to meet Chris Fareaves when my dad worked on a movie with him The Bostonians and played volleyball with him actually, which was really fun, which also then, you know, becomes a sad story with how his life ended. You know, too soon. I could be talking about Christopher or my dad, actually, but that sort of, you know, then Batman, the movies with the Tim Burton movies with Michael Keaton came out and that was kind of when I became more of a Batman fan, but it wasn't really until like the 2000s that I started getting like really interested in it again. And it was it was the Justice League series, actually, like I was aware of the animated series, but I didn't watch it regularly or anything. And then I just I watched the entirety of the Justice League series probably in like two or three weeks or something, you know, and it was just so good. And to me, you know, it's a combination, it's a combination of the writing and the voice acting, right, which I think anytime you get really like a just a peak level performance, it always has to be some combination of those, I think. And and so I think, you know, Kevin Conroy was was fortunate to get this role that was just really well written. And, you know, he was given kind of to me the Batman who was like the best Batman that there can be, you know, but then for all of those, you know, my favorite moments of those to be on the level they were, it required his performance to like to make it real, right? And somehow, you know, his Batman felt more real to me than any of the, you know, gritty live action takes that many of which I love. But there's just something that feels so real, like, you know, human or just like a like a person, you know, and I think he captured the the essence of both Bruce Wayne and Batman and really distinguished them with his voice, right? Like you can tell whether this is Bruce Wayne or Batman speaking without looking at the screen. And I think that was something that he just did so well. And, you know, he just delivered so many fantastic lines, particularly as Batman, I'd say more than as Bruce. But there's there's some more, you know, Bruce Wayne lines that I think were just fantastic. And and the way he differentiated those two, I think is like essential to the Batman character. And he does it in a way without going like full Christian Bale, right? Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I want to talk about my own story with Batman, but I'll just say I've said this before on the on the show, but I think it's worth peating. One of my favorite comments about Batman and it comes from the folks at the DC on screen podcast. And it's that unlike most superheroes, with Batman, Batman is who he is. And Bruce Wayne is the like persona that he puts on, but the core identity is Batman. And and when they were talking about that, they said that it was Batman, the animated series and Kevin Conroy, who really most, you know, gave him that idea. And I definitely think that that felt true because I think you're right. The brute, his Bruce always feels like not that it's a struggle, but that it like, and it doesn't feel like it's bad acting at all. It feels like the actor is very suited to it. But he's portraying it as someone who is always a little bit uncomfortable in his own skin. And I just always feel like so much more assurance when he is in actually being what he's acting as Batman instead, because it's because what he's portraying is that Bruce Wayne is someone who's always like a little bit putting on this show for everybody, even less so when he's talking with Alfred, but even there, like just he as Batman is what is most comfortable. Yeah, I think to some extent, there's almost three roles there, where there's Bruce Wayne the performance in front of, you know, a crowd, there's Batman, which you know, you could say is the true identity. And then there's Bruce Wayne in Wayne Manor, where only Alfred's around. And he's, you know, the question is like, do you have to always pretend you're Bruce when you're like, not in the Batcave? And then when you're the Batcave, you could be Batman? Or, you know, do you have this kind of in between? Yeah, I was thinking that as I was saying it, because like I would like to say that no, he's just Batman without Fred, but I think one of the really beautiful parts of that relationship is that Alfred knows that Batman is kind of his core, but kind of one of Alfred's main goals throughout the entire show is to allow him to become Bruce again. You're going to help him out of just being Batman. Yeah. It's interesting because I, you know, there have been a lot of clips that have been circulating since the news broke that he passed. And also, I think I've, you know, continued to rewatch the show. And I absolutely agree with both of you that there's sort of those three like major categories. But the thing that I think was so one of the many things that was so powerful about his performance was how sort of he could flow in between them. And he was very mutable. It's sort of like, you know, to go back to Christopher watching him, you know, straighten up and turn into Superman and then hunch his shoulders and turn into Clark. And you see the way he does it. You can hear the way Kevin Conroy does it. And like, in there was, I was watching the two part Ra's al Ghul episode. And there's like a scene where he and Robin are like lost in the desert. And then they find their way to like a Wayne Enterprise's building in whatever country that they're in, which is very funny. And they're like, change into like their usual, like he's got his turtle neck on and because his little sweater vest. And I'm like, you just keep those in all of your offices. But he's so they're like talking about like what they're going to do next. But it's Bruce, like he's wearing civilian clothing, but he's using a voice that's much closer to Batman. But because he's talking to Dick, who's his partner, his kid, it's very, it's a very warm version of it. They're like joking around with each other. It's not the way that he talks to like, Ra's and Talia. And then one of the clips I was circulating on Twitter was from Mask of the Phantasm when Bruce breaks down in the rain in his parents' grave. And the person who tweeted it said that Kevin Conroy was particularly proud of that particular scene, which they might have been making up. I don't know, but he should have been proud because it's, it's amazing. But he's fully in the Bruce voice, which really surprised me because I would, because I, I default as well to thinking that the Batman voice is more true to who he is, but it makes sense that he wouldn't talk to his parents that way. Right. Yeah. It makes total sensitize in that higher register that he's because he's so vulnerable in that moment. And it was such a, it's such a smart choice as an actor. And it's a choice that shows that he, how well he knew and understood the character. Absolutely. And, and I think he's using kind of more of like a young Bruce voice there, right? Then like fake Bruce. Yes. Yeah. It doesn't have that, that little veneer of I'm a doofus usually does this Bruce, which I love. He's so good Bruce. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I think definitely with some of those other portrayals, like Christian Bale and things like that, who I utterly love. Yeah. It does feel like almost the portrayal of Bruce is almost to a comical extent. Whereas with Kevin, while I do feel like he, and in Batman, the anime series and the games and all that, while I do feel like Batman is the core identity, that tension is still always there. You know, it doesn't feel like Alfred is, you know, barking up a wrong tree or whatever metaphor you want to use for hopelessness. Like Alfred sees that there is the part of him that still is that side of him and all that. And just because we keep mentioning it, I didn't get a chance to be before my own quick Christopher Reeve story. I'm about the same age as Paul. We didn't know each other back then, but I got to say very proudly when I was in nursing school or kindergarten, that my daddy sued Superman because Christopher Reeve's owned the top floor of a co-op building. He wanted to do some construction and the ability to want him to do. My father wound up representing the building and so bringing a lawsuit against Christopher Reeve's. But yeah, sorry, it's, it's just funny that Christopher Reeve keeps coming up because they went to Juilliard together. Oh yeah, really? Yeah, I have no idea. Yeah, I wrote an obituary for Kevin Conroy for book riot, which is going to go up at some point this week. I'm not sure what day. And so I did a little bit of research and I was reading like various like the Warner Brothers press release about his passing. But he studied at Juilliard with a whole host of, you know, well-known actors, including Christopher Reeve and Robin Williams, who was his roommate. And I just looked at those three names and I was like, wow, like it's the saddest list. Like, they were all so talented. They were all so, by all accounts, wonderful people. And they were all gone far too soon and it's just heartbreaking. Yeah. And there's something really beautiful about that they all went to Juilliard because I'm going to talk about the way this is often conceived and acknowledging that there's some problematic classist ideas in this. But like, I think often we think of like, oh, you know, Juilliard or Yale or dramaturary, like, that's where like the real actors go, you know, and that those people then go on to do Shakespeare and like the serious acting. And so knowing that these three went on to do, you know, stand-up comedy and then a lot of like comedic movies, although they often had a lot of very serious acting in them. And then the other two were primarily superhero actors for most of their life, one on voice, one on screen. It's kind of hilarious, but it's also really telling about how we can often really undervalue the talent that goes into these things. And that kind of leads me to telling my own story about my connection to this show because it's 100% because of Paul, because I did watch some episodes of it during high school. But mostly my memory of it is my friends would get stoned and want to watch animated shows. And that many animated series was the thing we watched while I was waiting for us to watch Darkwing Duck, which you know, so thematically all of a piece. Yeah, pretty much so, you know, a lot of mentions. The far better theme song, I will say. But I never, it was the thing that my friends like to laugh at when they were stoned. And you know, it was like, it's fine, but I never really do it very seriously. And then when Paul and I were having all these great conversations that the conversations that would eventually lead to this podcast about Batman and stuff, Paul would keep mentioning, you know, Batman animated series. And I was like, no, but it's animated. I'm not going to like it. I'm not going to get into it. And when I finally sat down and really watched it, of course, I discovered what so many others have that it's brilliant storytelling and has some of the joy of animated shows to be sure. But is, I mean, there's a lot of animation, especially now that isn't like just for kids, but especially back then, it was kind of unique, particularly if something came out, you know, weekday afternoons. And I think it was Kevin so much of that, you know, for all the things we're talking about. And I was trying to kind of put my arms around like what it was that made his influence so powerful. The thing that I kept coming back to it, I want to kind of let each of us talk about maybe one thing about Kevin kept kind of his performance really spoke to them. It's for me, it's the way he interacts with the villains, especially the ones who he has some sympathy for. I think there's a lot of opinions of Batman and a lot of portrayals of him that is the, you know, he is vengeance. He is the knight. He is the one who's going to punish the bad guys and make them fearful. And I think there's a lot of that even with Kevin Conroy. But some of my favorite episodes are the one where he's with Grundy or with Ace who Paul, you may say that episode or with Harley, you know, like Harley's bad day, where it's so clear that he both wants to stop the person doing the bad thing. But he recognizes like this person also had some major trauma just like he did. And maybe it's not just because Bruce is a better person that Bruce went one way and they went to another, but that there's a lot of ways that Bruce could have maybe gone their way or they could have gone his way. And he has a sympathy for them. And I just, I've never seen a portrayal of Batman that expresses that sympathy the way Kevin Conroy did. Yeah, I'm trying to think whether, whether I've seen that much in other Batman's or I've seen that so much in this Batman that it's just like how I view Batman, you know? Yeah, like a lot of our Batman's, I think it's, if it's a pretty woman who we're supposed to be flirting with, then you can have some sympathy for her. But like, you know, Penguin and Catwoman both have kind of sympathetic backstories. We care a lot about Catwoman's not penguin in the Batman Forever movie. Right. I think, I mean, he does have the benefit that it is a TV show. And so he has so much more room for those moments. He don't have room for that in two hours or three hours, we've been getting lately. But you do have room for that in 24, 22-minute episodes. So it's partially the format. But I think, yeah, I mean, he so many people, I've seen so many people over the years say, Batman, the animated series is Batman is the best Batman. And it's because he has that humanity. He has that warmth. And I mean, we keep coming back to Christian Bale, who when he's Batman, it's just like incoherent growling. Like you lose, he's so good at Bruce Wayne, and you lose the humanity once he becomes Batman. And that's, I mean, that's the case with a lot of these performers. But you never lose it with Kevin Conroy. You always have that the feeling that, like, as Paula saying, there's a person in there. And I was actually rereading so earlier this year, DC published a Pride anthology, which they've done for a few years now. And Kevin Conroy actually wrote a story for it. And usually these are like superhero, like, they're superhero comics. It's about like queer characters in the comics, but this was an autobiographical story. And it's amazing. It's the best story in the anthology. And DC has actually made it free to read. So I highly recommend going and checking that out. But when he talks about using the Batman voice for the first time, he frames it very much as coming from a place of real human pain. And it's not there to frighten. It's a cry from the heart. And I think that, again, that understanding that Batman is a manifestation of pain and not being badass. I mean, he's very badass when he wants to be. But it's not like an affectation. Yeah. Yeah. I like that a lot, because that is so, in many ways, I think Michael Keaton was the Batman I saw as a kid and sort of shaped the aesthetic for me. But the Batman who really kind of shaped a lot of my initial ideas of Batman was Christian Bale. And that's where it's very much the sort of ideas that Rachael Goop, very much the ideas that Rachael Goop teaches him of like, you know, use fear as a weapon, you know, and all that. So I really like that different take on it. Yeah. I will say just in terms of the Christian Bale Batman, I think in Batman Begins, he had a really nice difference between Bruce Wayne and Batman. And then in the Dark Knight, he just like doubled down on the like really super growly and like, yeah, and also like the audio mixing just was just a the bad thing about that movie. But like, yeah, I think it was not just book growling. There was like a voice modulator. Yeah, it was it was just way too much. And but I but I agree that it was it was also motivated differently, right? It was it came from a different part of the character or it really showed a different take on the character, even though, you know, it's like, well, yeah, here's the Batman voice. Here's the Bruce Wayne voice. It's like, okay, but you know, his Bruce Wayne voice was almost always not almost always, but like had a very much of like a he was putting on an air. And then his Batman voice was also like he was putting on a different air. So I think with the Christian Bale Batman, we very rarely got that really genuine person that that we got from Kevin Conroy. I think it's very true. So what about from each review? What's kind of like one thing about Kevin Conroy's performance that you want to lift up or it could be like a specific aspect or like a particular episode or moment? I just have a bunch of lines. Sure. If you want to kind of rattle through some of them. Is there going to be a separate segment where we're talking about favorite moments or? Well, I don't want this to go too long. So this is kind of like could be the wrap up segment. So yeah, if you wanted to go for it now. Okay, so so I'll just I'll just list a bunch of first of all, you mentioned the epilogue episode of the Justice League Unlimited. Whether it's season two or three, it's like they had a total of 39 episodes. This is the 26th episode. It's the end of this whole Cadmus arc, right, which was actually the reason that I wanted you to watch the Justice League because it like it gets into like, you know, real world issues through the lens of like superheroes, right? And it was kind of like, you know, civil war before civil war. And it's, you know, I there's so many great lines throughout that whole arc where, you know, early on, there's like, they're fighting all these nanobots and and batmans in the bat wing and the bat wing gets destroyed by the nanobots and he bails out, but he like doesn't have a parachute. And he's like, uh, he's like, if somebody could catch me, I can't fly at all. And just the delight, like, that's one of my favorite lines. And he's so slappable when he says it, he's like, well, I'm going to die, but I'm not going to get worked up over it. Exactly. It's just like, so matter of fact, but also such a dramatic moment, right? And then I think Wonder Woman saves him. Um, and, uh, there's another, I mean, the whole Batman and Wonder Woman dynamic throughout the Justice League series, I think is just fantastic. And there's, there's, there's so many moments. Um, there's one time when they're, they're hiding, but in, in person. So he's, you know, Bruce Wayne. And, and she's Diana, I guess. And, um, she kisses him to like, you know, sort of so somebody doesn't notice that they're who they are. And she's like, you know, I'm sorry. And he's like, don't be like, just like the way he says it, just it's just, it's just, it's so different from what we saw in the rest of the Justice League, because we don't get much Bruce in the Justice League, right? And it's mostly Batman there. I don't get too much into like romantic pairings in different characters, but one of the ones I am fairly die hard for is Bruce Diana. And I have so much of it is because of his interact, like that Kevin Conroy's interactions with her. And it just like, no, and any of the pairing for either of them. No. Yeah, for sure. No, I feel you on that. Um, and then entirely because of the Justice League series. Oh, yeah. You know, and then later in, in the, um, the Cadmus arc, there's, there's a spot where he's talking to Amanda Waller portrayed fantastically by CCH Pounder, right? And, um, and he's talking about Lex, you know, not just wanting to be president. And she's like, she's like, he wants to be president. That's enough power for anyone. And he's just like, almost anyone. And it's like, it's a great line. And it's just delivered perfectly, you know. And that whole episode, there's like a thing where they're all the Justice League wants to like, turn themselves into the government. And he's like, he's just like, you know, he's like, if, if you're, you know, whatever, like, clear your own name, don't sit on the sidelines and wait for someone else to do it. And they're like, well, you have to, you know, we voted, you have to come along. He's like, I'm just a part timer. Remember that man out. Yeah, some of the best stuff of his, we talked about the NBA series, but in the Justice League, the way he's able to portray that he's sort of like, he's on the same side, but not the same team of the Justice League show up, but he's not, but he's never going to drink the Kool-Aid. It's like, you still like him? Like, when he does that in the comics, I'm like, shut up, then leave. I don't need you. But like, Kevin Conroy's Batman, I'm like, all right, you knucklehead, okay. Yeah, it just works within the context of the show, you know, and because it's, it's delivered. Like, I don't know, when you're reading a comic, you can kind of, I mean, maybe you hear Kevin Conroy's voice when you read Batman, you know, I'm sure I do, but you know, it depends on how it's written, sometimes it's written in a way where it's like, no, this isn't, you know, this isn't that Batman. And, you know, but when you, when you see an animated show, you're, you're hearing the voice, right? And how the line is delivered can make such a difference in terms of how the line is felt. And I guess I'll just, in terms of these lines, there's the entire epilogue episode of the Justice League Unlimited series, which is just like, I kind of don't want to go over the whole thing again. I basically narrated the episode to my mom the other night on the phone while like walking out in the cold and night, it felt appropriate. And like, I was like tearing up, you know, it's like hard to actually explain like everything that happens in the episode because, and basically, it's just, you know, this super villain is like doing super villain stuff, but she's about to have an aneurysm and, you know, Amanda Waller is like, well, I need you to go in and she'll trust you, and then go ahead and kill her. And he's like, yeah, okay, I'll do that. But like, he has no intention of doing that, you know, and he ends up just like asking her like, you know, could you stop it, like with the, you know, and like, she does, you know, and I think because, you know, they have a they have a real connection there in that moment. And, you know, and she asks if he'll like stay with her and he does and he like holds her hand sitting on a swing, you know, important to this, I think, is that like, not only is she a supervillain, she's also like, what, she's a kid. Yeah, I don't know how old she actually is, but yeah, she's a kid, you know, and, and she's like, you know, basically, she had this power and and cadmists or some governmental agency tried to turn her into a weapon. And she's like, they got their weapon, you know, I got robbed of my childhood. And then, you know, Batman's like, I know what that's like. And she's like, you do, don't you? Because, you know, she can read minds and like, you know, and then they're just sitting there on swings, you know, so it's like, she, you know, they're kind of like two kids, you know, where it's like a part of Bruce is always that eight year old boy who just saw his parents murdered. And it's just a beautiful moment and terribly sad. Yeah, yeah. It's funny, like every line that you've said, I mean, it's been years since I watched Justice League. That's what like, I started this, you know, DCAU rewatch, but I'm still in season one of Batman, because it was 65 episodes long. So many episodes. But every single line you've said, I, like, I can remember exactly the cadence or exactly how he said it, like, it's just, yeah, yeah, like, increased on my brain. Yeah, it's their iconic lines delivered iconically, like it just, and it, the way he does it, I think it feels effortless, you know, which isn't to say that it was, but sometimes someone's like giving some big impassioned speech and it feels like it feels like acting, you know, and granted, we've already talked about sometimes the character is acting, and he gets that across as well. But it just, it, I mean, I think great acting is like, when you, it doesn't feel like acting, it just feels like the person, there's a person there, and you, you feel how they think, and, and how they feel, and it just, it just all comes across. Yeah. One, one, just a quick thing that also makes me think of in terms of just the, the acting range is Batman Beyond. Oh, yes. The same character, but age is 30 years older, which changes the voice, but also it's a, it's a more cynical Batman in some ways. It's a Batman who has really kind of like lost some of his, like under, like he, who's really kind of suffering under the weight of everything he's been dealing with, and is slowly brought back to an understanding by this younger version of himself. And it's just, it isn't a mate, like I was definitely very shocked when I realized it was the same voice actor. It's very tied to it, but it's just like, just for that vocal talent, I wouldn't have thought it. Yeah. Just what, what about from you, one kind of, either a couple favorite moments or lines or just one last aspect of the portrayal. I mean, we, we definitely hit a bunch of them that seen in Mask of the Phantasm that all had a few of them, that all, all of Epilogue. The bit in, when he says to Harley, I had a bad day too. Like, so good. Yeah. But my number one, and I remember the very first, like, I remember in this episode aired is the JLU episode in the first season, this little picky, when he sings. Oh, wow. Because Wonder Woman has been transformed into a pig by Cersei. And the only way that he can get her to turn, like, turn back into herself is by singing in Cersei's nightclub. And like, I, again, I remember when this episode aired, and I remember everybody losing their minds because we didn't know Kevin Conrad could sing, and he has a beautiful singing voice. And like, of course, this, like, I'm the musical theater person. Like, of course, I lost my mind at this, but it was just, and like, the minute he started singing, it was like, well, of course Batman would have a beautiful singing voice. He trained to be the best at everything. Like, the minute he did it, it made sense. And it was logical. And it's just, like, literally, I will sometimes just pull up that clip and listen to it, even though it's like, 30 seconds of a song and not the full thing. And I wish they recorded the full thing. Oh, that would be so good. Yeah. I love it. Yeah, that that scene. That whole episode is amazing. It's so good. That's the first season of that. Well, no, the whole, all of these shows are good. I think that's the moral of this. Yeah, yeah. And also, let's be tied to what I'm the host, I get to do this. I'll do the one last thing again. Um, like, you were talking to Paul about him talking to, um, Amanda Waller and, and to me, that's one of the best things in the Justice League, uh, show shows is that I think a big part of why I am Amanda Waller is one of my favorite characters in animation and why to some extent, I agree with her some of the time is because to some extent, Batman agrees with her. And I've never seen that anywhere except in those animated shows where sometimes like the two of them are the ones who are like, yeah, this Superman guy who's always going to be good and right, we can have no limitations on because they'll always do the right thing. Do you buy it? No, do you buy it? No, like just the way that they connect sometimes, even though often they're working across purposes, but they still like they're both having that suspicion. And I just, Kevin Conroy's acting in that is a lot of why like, I think it's sort of like if Batman can see some about validity in her point of view, so can I. Yeah, I mean, there's a whole thing where he's like, they're right to be afraid of us, you know, and, and, you know, Superman's like trying to make a joke. He's like, I took a bullet for you Clark or whatever. Like he literally just like attached to the bat wing to like a nuclear weapon or something. I don't know. Like somehow didn't quite totally get blown up. Makes sense. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you both so much. This has always been a mini episode and we are going to be under 35 minutes or so, but I'm so glad both of you could be a part of this. Jess, you mentioned a couple things you're doing. We're going to have links in the show notes to the obituary that you're writing, as well as to where you've already written. We're going to have links in the show notes, the obituary, Kevin that you wrote, as well as I'm going to have a link to that comic that you mentioned that Kevin wrote. But is there anything else people should know about what you're doing these days? Yeah, it's pretty much all over on book riot. Technically, I'm at Jess Plummer on Twitter, but who knows if Twitter will still be standing by the time this airs? So yeah, it's stick with book riot. Great. I'll also say that Jess and I will be having another conversation in about 10 minutes. So you'll probably hear it before you hear this on another part of the DC universe that is just so awash with deep ethical questions and brilliant portrayals. And I wish you could see the sarcasm on my face because I'm talking about black Adam. So if you want to hear us talk about black Adam, maybe a little less tears, but perhaps still some great things to say. Check that out also on this podcast. Paul, the Zen madman is still hibernating in the Zen cave, doing Zen poker things and will be emerging like a butterfly in January with new content. Something like that. Yes. Okay. Awesome. I am literally sitting in a dark room with all the lights out and podcast English. I don't know. It feels like a very bad man and also like very voice actor, you know, so I feel a deep connection right now too. Yeah, I like it. I like it. All right. Well, thank you both so much to all of our audience. Would love to hear from you. I'm so extremely, especially this. What are some of your favorite Kevin Conway moments? Other episodes you've been like inspired to go back and watch? Are you so I mean, this is a show we're talking about that was mostly big in the 90s and early 2000s. I'm guessing there's some of you who maybe haven't seen it or haven't seen many of his portrayals. What's your take on this? How does his portrayal compare to others or what have you heard about it before? Anything you want to tell us, go to theathicopanda.com, send us your thoughts, send us your ideas. You can find us on Facebook, email, Twitter, all the different places that people are. Well, Twitter may be in a little while, who knows, but certainly you can email us, find us on Facebook, anything you want. I have myself, Paul, Jessica. Thank you so much. And on our Kevin Conway, thank you to all of you for listening in. And I just, you know, thank you to Kevin for all the amazing content he gave us. Thank you all and have a good night. And second, the voice kept calling me Bruce in my mind. That's not what I call myself.
