On today's show: 1. Frogmore Stew website - https://www.frogmorestewsc.com/ 2. Frogmore Stew Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/frogmorestewsc/ This episode's music is by Tyler Boone (tylerboonemusic.com). The episode was produced by LMC Soundsystem.
Holy City Sinner Radio
Episode 293 - Interview with Grace Cowan host of "Frogmore Stew" - (9/13/24)
Oh, the City Center radio is Episode 293, and I am your host Christian Sanger today is Friday, September 13th, 20, 24. Happy Friday. I hope you had an amazing week here in Charleston or wherever you are listening from. We've got another amazing interview for you. I think you're certainly going to enjoy this one. It is with Grace Cowen. She is a host of a podcast called Frogmore Stu. If you can already tell from the name, it's going to involve South Carolina in the South, right? Well, it does, of course, but it does branch out into topics that are important nationally as well. It is a politics, political history, and political culture podcast. Now, I know some of you listening might be like, "Nope, politics, I'm out. I get it." Even though I'm very much into it, unfortunately, I totally get those who are not. Or even those who follow politics but are just tired of it. But I promise you, when you hear the term political podcast, I'm sure something has jumped into your head and has said, "Oh, no, this is going to be someone screaming into a microphone about whatever the other side is of that person hosting and how much they hate them." No, I don't have time for that. Even if I agree with that, no, this is not that kind of podcast at all. It's that rare political podcast where they're not just having people on to reinforce whatever your echo chamber is or yelling at you how dumb you are for supporting the other side. It is not like that at all. Truly, this is a podcast. I'm saying this to someone who's listened to it. This is not just me because I have the guest on. I don't have to promote the guest at all. This isn't a paid thing, I have guests that come on that either I've reached out to or maybe they've reached out to. I truly do enjoy the podcast. I really do believe that even if you're not into politics, particularly this is for anyone who lives here in South Carolina because it does obviously have that local bend to it. But even if you're not really into it, I think you'd still enjoy this podcast because I'll take a topic and it's usually something very important either specific to us here in the palmetto state or at least even if it's a national issue, it obviously is really important here. They'll bring on guests who can speak to that topic and not necessarily politicians, although of course there are going to be interviews with politicians and things like that. All this is to say that this isn't your normal what you think of when you hear a political podcast. This is actually thoughtful. The discussions are the topics are it ties into whatever the topic is, it'll tie back to something that's important probably to you or someone you know. And I think Grace has a really great job. She also has a co-host on Fridays, Caitlin Brewer and she does a great job as well. They do interviews. They talk amongst themselves and it's just you'll see from this interview the type of topics they cover it kind of runs the gamut from you know whatever the big topic of the day is to something maybe you haven't thought about but it's important locally. And I think they just do an amazing job. So that's my official endorsement as it were. I think most people listening to this podcast would really, really enjoy hers. If you're someone who listens to mine but hates when I talk about politics, her show is a great option as well. So even if you don't like politics at all or maybe disagree with what I feel and believe, she has a podcast where really anybody can listen to it. And although maybe you might hear from someone periodically whose opinion to disagree with, it's not the type of situation where they're bashing you over the head about it or trying to make you feel bad or dumb for having a particular belief that you have. It truly is just trying to cut through all that noise that we're used to and just bringing it back locally to the individual how it's important. Here are the facts about this particular issue that maybe you've heard about in the state house or you've heard being talked about at school board meetings and things like that. So I highly recommend it. No more rambling from me. You want to hear from Grace because she can talk about the podcast better than I can. And it was great getting to catch up with her and learn more about Frogmore Stew. You can find it anywhere you get podcasts, but there will be links in the show notes where you can find more info. Have a great weekend. If you're looking for plans, go to holycitycenter.com/calendar. All sorts of things going on this weekend and beyond that you can look into. Have an amazing weekend. I'll be back with you on Monday. But before I officially say goodbye, you got to listen to this great interview. So without any further delay, here we go. And joining me now as promised is today's guest that is Grace Cowen. She is the host of Frogmore Stew, a politics podcast here in South Carolina. Very excited to learn more about the show and also about you, Grace. Thank you so much for joining me. Oh, Christian, thanks for having me. Of course. I've seen your name out and about on the Internet and stuff for a while. So I feel like I'm a little familiar with you, but we've never, to the best of my recollection, I don't think we've met anywhere and haven't spoken before, so I'm excited to chat today. Same. I don't know how that's possible. I feel like it's so strange that our paths haven't crossed in the same tiny city. I know. For a city as everyone listening knows, it's sometimes can feel like a small town, especially if you're in a certain industry, you feel like you know everybody in that industry or if you're in a certain orbit of politics and news. I feel like I kind of know everybody, but so glad I finally get the chance to chat with you today and perhaps some folks listening. This will be their introduction to you and your podcast as well, so I'm excited to learn more. Yeah. Well, thank you. No problem. So first, let's talk about you as the person. Just let my listeners know a little bit about who you are. If they're unfamiliar, your background, anything you feel is important and you want to share. You know, I think probably the best way that I usually describe myself is someone who's been working in an advocacy space for a long time. I started a nonprofit when my kids were young called birthday buds that pairs kids living in poverty with kids that can give. And from there really learned a lot about social services and different programs available to families that need it. And so from there, I became a guardian and light them, which basically I get appointed by a judge to oversee a case of a child that's in foster care. And so from there, I really learned the juvenile justice system. I learned a lot about the foster care system and again, you know, down that path of social services. And at the same time I have worked a lot with a group called Metanoia, which does a lot of housing and equity and community work. And all of those combined sort of led me into politics because it's policies that directly affect so many people in so many things. And the other, the flip side is before I really got into the advocacy work, I was a concert promoter for the majority of my career. And through that, you know, I dealt with town councils and mayors and police chiefs all the time. I was on tour most of the time and we would do festivals in different cities or out with bands. And before you could have a festival in a city, you need approval from the city. And so learning liquor laws and different, you know, what different town councils required you to have through committees was really my first introduction into politics. Interesting. When you were talking about advocacy, I was about to say, oh, yeah, that makes sense. A lot of people who get into advocacy just by nature, you know, they're going to learn more about politics or at least as it relates to their specific, you know, niche that they're in, you know, whatever it is that they're, you know, focused on. But some then sprout out and start learning more and more about politics and become, you know, so much more involved in that field. But I wouldn't have thought concert promoter would also tie into that. That's really interesting. I didn't think about that. Like, yeah, of course you're, you're dealing with local authorities and so you're starting to learn a little bit more about the ins and outs of that as well. So it's interesting that those two worlds kind of came together and kind of helped inform and get you more directed towards politics, did you? Was that really your first, will you following it just like any other person? You know, did you follow it with any real intensity or anything before? You know, these things kind of let you know more about it. Absolutely not. I had, I was what a lot of pundits like to call low information voter. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted, I didn't care about it. I didn't really grow up in a household that cared about it. And so it wasn't, I mean, it just wasn't really ever on my radar. Yeah. I was kind of the same way until, you know, I turned, I was like 18 freshmen in college. That's when I started to start paying attention and it can grab you pretty quickly as boring as politics can be in some instances and frustrating and annoying and can ruin your day. It's really easy to get caught up in that stuff, which I never would have thought as a kid. And so you've decided not only just get caught up in it, you decide you are going to create a podcast about it. So how did the podcast come to be? Well, so I think the evolution of this whole cycle of all of those things that I've been working on came sort of, I jumped in with both feet when Jamie Harrison was running against Lindsey Graham and I really wanted to understand how campaigns worked, how the funding worked, you know, all the ins and outs. And then really got my, my head kind of blew up when he lost by so much because we'd raised so much money. Yes. And it was, it was just such a kick in the gut. And so and to say this, I'll say this as well, it's like, you know, campaigns are very similar to concerts. I mean, there's, there's a lot of marketing and, you know, excitement that happens before and then you have the show and then you deal with the aftermath, right? And sometimes it's great and sometimes it's not. And I think the aftermath for me is always the most fascinating because you sort of see what, what went right, what went wrong. And what I feel like I learned from that was that statewide in South Carolina, a Democrat likely can't win, you know, in a governor's race, in a Senate race, you, it's just unlikely there, there are about 250 more Republican voters in the state than there are Democrat voters. And so that really spun me down the data world and just doing the dissection of who's voting where. And then that led me into how the districts are designed and set up and who actually does that and why and how it all happens. And that just uncovered then, I mean, it was like Pandora's box. Yeah, it's, you know, that's again, for people who don't like politics, this gets even more in the weeds. But you say, when it comes to, you don't, you don't really realize how important these down ballot races, meaning, you know, for those listening who may not be familiar, obviously not, we're not talking about the president, you know, election, we're not talking necessarily about the governor and maybe not even a mayor, but school boards, county boards, city councils and stuff. You don't realize how much they actually affect your day to day more than, you know, like a president will and you, as you learn more and more about local politics, like you said, you realize just how enmeshed some very old, you know, whether it's policies or standards are and it gets, it gets frustrating as well. We, you know, we could talk about gerrymandering and all that. And the thing, you know, I had an idea of South Carolina politics, of course, and, but I had the similar feeling with Jamie Harrison and Lindsey Graham's race. That's when I really realized how tough it would be for there to be close races really anywhere, because you're kind of in a Charleston bubble where there's more left leaning folks and a lot of the other state and in his unpopular, someone as Lindsey Graham is in his own party. People are still going to vote for him over a Democrat and that because I thought there was, like you said, the money behind it, there was enthusiasm, right, and I had, I'd known through, you know, talks with people and also on social media, how much people dislike Lindsey Graham that were Republicans or right leaning and, but still they're just going to vote no matter what. And so yeah, there's a lot to uncover with local politics and in your podcast, you know, people listening at this point might think, oh, is this just some liberal podcast that's going to bash the right or whatever, because he worked for Jamie Harrison's campaign. And it's, it's not, it's, it's, you cover a lot of topics and it's not just like the big national story or culture war stuff. What are some of the different things you cover? What can people expect from this podcast? Yeah. So I try to stay, I feel like there are so many of those out there. Why I don't need to compete with all of, you know, the, the podcasts that keep you in your silo. And one of the things that I find so fascinating about South Carolina politics is the actual history of, and, and characters of the people that have shaped where we are now. And so, for example, I did a podcast on a guy named Lee Atwater, who was a fascinating character and wound up making, you know, his name on the national stage during the Reagan election and then the Bush election. And really drove and changed politics in a way that still affects us to this day. And I cover people like Phyllis Schlafly, who was the anti-feminist movement. She is the reason that the Christian coalition exists. And I don't know that people, you know, can, can often connect historical figures throughout time to exactly what is happening today. And I think that's a really important part of understanding why we have become so polarized. I think it's a great point and same as, as I learned more and more about politics nationally and then even more so locally, you can almost always have a direct through line from pretty far in the past. We, why is it, why is this state or this city or this district or whatever? Why is it the way it is in this sense? And you can almost always, you know, trace it back very, very far. And so I think that's interesting in general, but also helpful for people to have that historical context of why these things are happening or what these are rooted in. And so you, you cover that, which is great. You covering obviously topics, like you said, you're tying it to something that's happening current. So it's not just a history podcast. And you'll go through things too, like I think the most recent episode as of this recording and in this episode is going to come out just a few days after we record it. So this isn't going to be too far out of date for anyone listening, but you had an episode where you're talking about the politics of tipping, which is a big thing right now. Yeah. Amongst other topics. So it's not, again, like you said, it's not just an echo chamber thing. You know, can you believe what Donald Trump said or this politician did, it's local, although you will talk about national things as well. And how it affects people here in the low country. And like you said, I think that makes it different than most other shows out there. So, you know, we just did a piece on a ruling by the Department of Labor on the salary threshold for non-exempt employees. And as much as that doesn't sound political, I guarantee that it will get, the politicians will get a hold of either side of that. And you can take the ruling and you can run it through a Republican conservative perspective and you can take that ruling and run it through a progressive Democrat perspective and have two sides that are both mad and blame the other side for what's happening. And so I wanted to get ahead of that and have, I had a labor lawyer on and had her talk us through what it meant. And it's actually not that big of a deal for most small businesses. And it's kind of a good thing for, you know, employees that make under $58,000 a year. But I wanted to make sure that our listeners could hear what the actual policy was and not put any spin on it and then walk away with whether or not they like it or not. And so I try to do a lot of those things where we pull a piece of policy and then put it out there so that anyone can hear it from a very bland perspective and then make their own decision. No, that's great. And we talked about how important, you know, down ballot or these kind of lower levels of government in terms of, you know, national versus, you know, like city or what have you. How important they are for a lot of reasons, but the politics of the day will still get infused with it. So you'll see a lot of people online or even in your day-to-day life that will dislike a candidate just because of the letter next to their name and they'll just buy into whatever the current talking points are. The fact that, you know, they're able to just, hey, here's this thing that's being talked about. Here's the non-political as far as we're going to put a bend on it. We're going to talk about just this issue as it is. And then people can go out there and do what they want with that information. And I think, and maybe this has been your experience too, like on the local level, you know, whoever your representative is, whether they're, you know, Democrat or Republican, there are certain issues where they are going to be malleable on because they're not the big talking point of the day. There's something that's very specific to your community. It's not this big, you know, culture war thing. And although it might be something they're not focused on or don't, you know, maybe they have an opinion, someone, no matter who they are, can come and easily persuade them to, you know, change sides. So it's important to know like the actual background where you can then go to your representative, regardless of what your beliefs are and theirs are and say, hey, here's this very local thing. This is why it's important to me. And this is what I think. This is a much, it's much easier to sway someone on those types of issues when they're down on, you know, the city or county level versus, you know, a senator or something or even a U.S. representative, you know, who is supposed to represent a district and we have some here that are more interested on being on TV or whatever nationally than, you know, actually doing anything locally. So getting to those people with information that you're providing is very important because it may seem helpless when you're thinking, you know, if you're a Democrat in the state, for instance, you may be like, oh, there's just no way I'm ever going to be able to work with this representative of mine or whatever they may be. Yeah. But when it comes to these types of issues, you really can. Yeah. Well, that's constituent services, right? Like you have to be able to talk to the people that you're representing and represent everyone. And we did a series where we interviewed as many of the people running in the primaries as we could. And it was so fascinating throughout the state to hear what people's top three issues were that were running for office. And then we're about to launch a series where we talked to constituents and then we'll compare and contrast. And it's sort of fascinating at what people that are running will tell you they think the issues are, and then you hear the people in their district talking about what they think the issues are and where they overlap and where they differ. And it's also sort of fascinating the broad scope with which people talk about issues. So, you know, the number one thing that every person running said, unless they were an incumbent and being primary, but anyone running that didn't hold a seat basically said roads. Roads is the number one issue in the state of South Carolina. And when you take that from a constituent look, you can say, okay, are they talking about the roads that are going like the highways, 26, highway 52, 20, 85, or are they talking about the road in front of their house or a pothole on their way to school. And so I think when candidates use words like like our terms in such broad scope, they're trying to sort of appease everyone because somebody's pissed about some road somewhere, right? Right. Right. Yeah. And then when you actually talk to constituents on the ground, like they're saying things like I'm a small business owner and I'm concerned because of XYZ or there's so many different things. Housing is always a huge issue. But when people talk about housing, it's the same thing as roads. It's such a varying degree of difference of what people mean by that. So when a politician says that it applies to a lot of people, but it doesn't really mean anything. That's a great point. Yeah. That's an easy like, oh, yeah. Yeah. No, no, that's not important. Yeah. Yeah. Right. That's true. Yeah. That's right. So that certainly makes sense. And so with your podcast, you're able to kind of talk about those things, which I think will help people again, whether you're really into politics or not. These are issues that you know, you'll have someone on who is not going to, you know, like you said, you had a lawyer on to come talk about something. So this isn't a politician who's going to sneak in little, you know, their opinions or their event to it, you know, and it'll help people understand the issue itself better. And then they can kind of make their decisions from there. It's almost like cutting through the noise, even if it's not a national story, if it's something local, it just seems as you know, everything gets infected by politics. So you could be talking about roads and you're going to see someone like, Oh, well, it's the Republicans who control this state. It's their fault. They never fix any roads. And then you'll hear someone else, Oh, well, no, you know, the Democrats block them or whatever, you know, whatever side you're on, you're going to blame the other side. So you guys are kind of cutting through that noise and being like, here's the issue. Don't worry about what other we have, what either side is saying. This is what's actually going on. And I know some shows are going to deviate a little, but it seems like that's, that's basically what your goal is, is to cut through the noise, talk to people about issues that are important here locally in the state. And you know, just try to, you know, yeah, there's going to be, if it's a politics podcast, there's going to be some opinions given, whether it's by you or a guest. But the main goal is to kind of cut through the BS and just get to the root of the issue, correct? Yeah. And the, and the thing is, I feel like even if I give my opinion, you don't have to agree with me to listen to the show and you can have a different opinion, but still walk away from the show and feel like, well, I have my opinion about that, but I didn't feel like I was assaulted by listening to the podcast for having a different opinion. I think that that's, you know, really an important part of what I'm doing. And there's a statistic in, or there's a stat in, in South Carolina that really I guess is affected me when I saw it. And it's that on the, the Republican ticket, 60% of Republican voters, I'm sorry, I said that wrong, 60% of Republican voters vote straight party ticket and 40% of Democrat voters vote straight party ticket. Interesting. And to me, that is something that we need to work on because I personally don't believe anyone should be voting straight party ticket. I don't know that there is anyone that 100% aligns with either party 100% of the time. And so I feel like the candidates that are running are really specific people and you have to get to know all of the things that you can possibly get to know about them before they have earned your vote. And you know, coupled with that stat is another one that out of our 124 house, state house races this year, 60 of them don't have an opposition candidate, which is a big problem. That means that democracy is not happening in 60 of the house districts in our state. And so people are not being represented as they should. And so there are a lot of things I think, you know, there are platforms that this state doesn't have that I think could help us become a more democratic state. I talk about this a lot on the podcast. We have what's called a part time legislature, which means that if you become elected as a state house or state Senate member, you make about just over $10,000 a year, which means and you have to be in Columbia, you know, from January until what is it, May or June, which means who can take that job? Only a very small percentage of people can actually take off of work for five months and go be in Columbia every day and live on $10,000 a year. So that to me already limits who can actually make decisions in our state, things like citizen referendums, the fact that we as citizens can't go collect signatures and get a measure on the ballot, that makes us a less democratic state. So I think that there are these really fundamental pieces that we could do as a state to actually, you know, make us a more democratic, more thriving state. Yeah, no, that's a really important point and something that I think a lot of folks don't realize, like you mentioned, like, and I'm sure this pick another state where it's predominantly blue, you know, there's going to be, I'm sure, Republicans are right-leaning folks who feel there's no point in running someone against in a combat, they're too popular, this place is too, whichever color. So it happens in everywhere, but first of all, like you mentioned, people listen, well, what does it matter if someone runs against someone, the chances of winning are miniscule, but it pushes those candidates to have to, you know, maybe answer for something they voted on, where if no one's running against them, no one's asking these questions, they kind of feel that they can do and say whatever they want, they're always going to get voted in, maybe they have an extreme position, and then, although the person running against them is not going to win, there's a particular topic or two that people who are voting for the incumbent are like, oh, but I do like that portion, and I really wish this incumbent would incorporate that, you know, it may not seem like a huge deal, but it does help kind of bring everyone more centered, like you said, to less extremes if they have someone running against them who's presenting ideas to the general populace that they may not be familiar with, so I think that's really important too, to realize that this is good for everybody, you know, because like you said at the beginning, not everyone agrees 100% with their party of choice or a candidate under that party, so wouldn't you like someone who brings them around, you know, to the ideas that you like? Yeah, well, and there just are so many, you know, politics encompasses so much that there are so many things that you could latch on to that you believe in, but then other things that are also really important that don't ever even get covered, and I think we get caught up in this like topical conversation of three or four issues that everyone wants to talk about, and really, politics is boring, the legislation is boring, writing and doing the research for legislation is boring, and so, you know, politicians have to come up with these things that get us all wound up, and so we did an episode a couple of weeks ago on, just on words, and the actual meaning of words, and how you use words, and that when you change one word in a sentence, but it still means the same thing, you sometimes can get it passed, so one of the examples was the estate tax, and so we used to have this estate tax, it was, this is a national tax, but a federal tax, it was very popular, 70% of people are like, yes, estate tax, and that's because, think about the word estate, that is assigned to wealthy people, and so in a state tax means that we're taxing wealthy people, but when it was changed to the death tax, and that meant that when you die, your estate gets taxed, then people didn't like it any longer, and so it's literally the same policy, it's just using a different word to describe what it is, and that can totally change someone's mind, and so I think as political consumers, it's important for us to weave through what words mean, and how they can be used differently in order to affect us. Absolutely, yeah, everyone always thinks about messaging, and can kind of see through a lot of messaging, but for those who aren't really in-depth with the politics, like you said, just a simple word change can make people who aren't willing or able, or whatever it is to dive into the topic, just be like, okay, yeah, I support it, I don't, just based on a word, it reminds me of when any politicians really, they create a bill, and they'll make the name in such a way that you feel like you have to support it, it's like say the children act like, well, I want to save the children, I don't even know what it is, but of course, and you don't actually know what the legislation is, so it's good to have an outlet like yours where, okay, this is what it's called, but let's break down the words, let's break down what it actually is, how has the journey of this podcast been for you so far, have people been supportive, have people who are like, maybe they knew you or thought the podcast was going to be one thing and wasn't, and now they really enjoy any feedback you have that you've received, how has it been? Well Christian, I'm sure you know this as someone who also does a podcast, but when you tell people that you have a podcast, so it's basically you promoting yourself for a long time, right, like it's you out like, have you listened to my podcast and you feel like kind of a jerk when you're like, have you listened to me talk, because it's really important what's going on on my show, I think that some people are like, oh my god, this is awesome, I can't wait to listen, some people are like, I've never listened to a podcast before, how do I do it? Some people give you great advice and we'll say how about this topic, how about that topic, and other people are surprised either that it doesn't sound like me talking like this or throwing that, like they're like, the production is great, how are you able to do that? And you're like, well there's a lot of stuff now that helps you be able to do a podcast, but it's and I have a great producer, but that has been sort of the reactions all over the board. It's been really, really fascinating for me personally, because I love other people, I love asking people questions, and so I feel like it's me getting to be in like a party with the most interesting person in the room all to myself twice a week. I, you know, and I love coming up with topics and then finding someone who's a specialist on that topic and getting to ask them all the questions that I'm curious about. It's a very good podcast, you know, I've been listening since I first learned about it and I think, thank you, you're welcome. And yes, there's going to be some episodes that maybe are a little bit more in the weeds with a certain topic or just politics in general that some people that's just not their thing and that's fine. But there are, most of the time, there are episodes that really no matter how much you're into politics or not, I think is, are still beneficial for you, you know, for anyone listening is like, I don't want to full politics podcasts. It's not what you're thinking. I hope you realize that by now, if there's interview, you know, this isn't just you screaming into a microphone, you know, that we think about political podcasts that you know, I'm sure we can all picture one or several people that come to mind right away, especially on the national level, they're just yelling about something. This is actually trying to educate in a way that's not, you know, like you said, you know, this isn't going to be like a politician with messaging and certain, you know, you're not picking words to trick people or anything like that. It's very straightforward and just wants to educate people regardless of their political background, just to just know more about what's going on in your state majority. But also, there are national topics as well. I like to call it pop politics, which is, I think of it as pop culture in the intersection of politics. So there are things like one of the topics that we Caitlyn, I do it, we do a Friday episode called Second Helping of Stew. And it's Caitlyn Brewer and I who sort of shoot the shit for lack of a better term. And last week, you know, we had the big thing on tips because both of us worked as servers and bartenders in our long ago past. And so we both had, you know, experienced with tips, but also some positions on it. And then we also talked about what things could we change in our society to make people happier. And one of mine is to have the self pump go away and have someone pump your gas. You know, like there are states like I think it's Oregon and New Jersey that have. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And it's such a luxury. And that isn't just if you have someone pumping your gas, everybody needs gas or has an electric car and needs their car plugged up. And so it's a luxury that would span from from across every every person out there. It's not just a luxury for the elite. It's a luxury for everyone. And so what are some things that states, counties, cities could do to make people's everyday lives easier? Because we hear a lot about what makes it harder and inflation and all of these things, but like what are some things that your city can do, parks, things like that, but also just little tiny things that business, local businesses could do to also make it a better place to live. And so I feel like we cover, you know, that may sound silly, but I feel like we try to cover more than just politics. Yes, absolutely. Though for sure, based on someone on the outside listening for sure, you know, the topics will run the gamut little something for everybody again, regardless of what side of the aisle you're on or if you're even on one, if you even care about politics, I think it's a good listen for everybody. And you know, when we when we do talk politics, I can easily just I could talk about forever. I could I've gone down a couple little side streets with you here. But is there anything we didn't talk about as it relates to the podcast, you know, because I got us talking kind of in big terms as well. Is there anything I didn't ask you or we didn't have a chance to chat about these things important or you just want people to know? I don't know that there's anything that I want people to know, but I think we need to figure out how we're going to be in the same room and maybe podcasting together from from some kind of fun event. That's not a bad idea. Yeah, so maybe there's an event coming up where we do like the, you know, the Charleston podcasters head to head or something. Yeah, we can duke it out verbally. No, that would be great. All the love, Christian. All the love. Of course. No, that could be cool. An event somewhere and record, you know, from that or something. Yeah, it's not a bad idea. It's something we'll have to love to think on. If anyone listening has an idea or an event where it might fit, let us know. Who is your favorite South Carolina band Christian? Oh, favorite South Carolina band. There's there's a few over the years that have been really good. You know, one that I think is everybody's kind of favorite in Charleston is the Midnight City Band. They do a lot of covers here and but they also have a lot of original music that's really good. So they kind of like got their footing by being a really good cover band and then they would kind of sprinkle in originals and now they do that a little bit more. They're one of my favorites. They do a really great job. What about you? Where do you go? I right now I'm really into Doom Flamingo. Yes. I love Doom Flamingo. They're amazing. They're so good. And we're talking, I guess we're talking about current bands because I'm an old lady. And so, you know, I would probably have to say Uncle Mango is my favorite South Carolina band. But I feel like 90% of your listeners may not know well, they they still play periodically around here. Yeah. So people may have seen them and not realized it. But yeah, yes. What was your last question? Did you have a question? Oh, no, you're asking the band. So maybe they could play this event. Is that where we were going with that? Yeah. Uncle Mango. Where are you buds? I know. Get this event going. No, I can't believe I didn't think of them to that. No, they're an amazing band. They do an incredible job. They might be a tough get because they're like tour nationally and stuff. But we can we can see what we can do. And where do you go to see live music? You know, depending if it's like a national thing or whatever, you know, obviously all the venues people think about. Yeah. But you know, poor houses nearby where I live. Yeah. And they get, you know, they do get some like national tourreacts. No one like huge, of course, it's a smaller venue. But they do have some locals as well. It's just fun, whether it's out on the deck, especially when the weather's great. That's a great place. Music calls an amazing place to see music. The acoustics in there are so good. And they have a range of national touring acts and very local ones as well. Yeah, the refinery is great. We have. Yes. Really great. I mean, from from where we were 30 years ago to where we are now, the music venue options have drastically changed. Oh, absolutely. Of course, we have, you know, the old stalwarts, like the the wind jammer and the music farm. And but yeah, it's adding credit one and the Gileard is his totally revamped. It's it's really great to have so many, so many amazing places to see music see shows. Absolutely. Yeah. For sure. And some of the ones that have even been around for a while, like music call and music farm, they've gotten revamped over the last music farm more recently, a musical. I mean, I don't know if it's been 10 years yet, but you know, they used to have like one performance a year. Now it's a full-time venue. So yeah, we're actually in a really great space right now where there's a lot of places to see live music, whether you want a huge national act, like, you know, you see it credit one or the Coliseum or, you know, someone local, you see it a smaller venue. There really are. There's not a lack of options. You know, there's plenty to see out there for sure. So maybe we can find a good venue with an open date and a local band. Well, we can maybe create some kind of event with the podcasting involved. I like where your head's at. We'll think of something. I love it. Well, it's so great to talk to you. Yes. And before I let you go, where can people find more information about the podcast or anything else you're involved in that you want to share? Sure, sure. So Frogmorestoo SC.com is our is our website, but the podcast is anywhere you listen to podcasts. Apple Spotify. This good places. Fantastic. We'll put a link in the show notes to the website, which is really just a jumping off point, like Grace said, to get to the podcast itself. I highly recommend it. I'm sure anyone who's listening to my podcast will enjoy it. But if you know someone who maybe doesn't listen to mine for whatever reason is in the politics, whether, like I said, they don't have to be super new. Just wants to learn more. Send them over to Frogmorestoo, which is a great name for a South Carolina podcast. So great job with that. You know, great branding. That's half the battle when you're starting. So thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate you taking the time and it was great just having this chat. And that'll do it for this edition of Holy City Center Radio. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks to Grace for coming on the podcast today. I can't recommend her show Frogmorestoo Enough. You heard me gushing about it at the top of the podcast. So be sure and give her a like, a follow all that good stuff. And while you're listening to my podcast, if you haven't rated and reviewed it yet, please do so. It helps get this podcast in the ears of other people. Share it with anyone who you think may be interested as well. Big thank you to Lindsey Marie Collins with LMC Sound System for producing this and every episode of Holy City Center Radio. And thank you to Tyler Boone, who's music you hear in each and every show. And of course, yet another thank you for all of you for listening. I greatly appreciate it so much. Have an amazing weekend. I'll be back with you next week. Until then, good night. Good luck. [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]