My Ex Is the Problem – Episode 309 of the Divorce University Online Podcast. I get it, I have an ex too and yes, many times our ex causes all kinds of drama and problems that effect the kids. But, if you go into Court trying to convince your Judge that your ex is the problem, things probably will not go well for you. Often, after about five minutes of talking with someone, I can tell why they aren’t succeeding in Court. It’s not the information you’re sharing that is the issue, it’s the way you are sharing it. To learn more about how I can support you in achieving success in your custody matter, please schedule a free strategy session at www.divorceuniversityonline.com/vip-coaching. Thanks for listening!
Divorce University Online
My Ex Is the Problem
our listening to the divorce university online podcast with your host Tammy Ferrera. Hey guys Tammy here and in this episode we are going to talk about my ex is the problem now how many of you feel like your ex is the problem I know I did I know we all do and I know that we know that the sole problem isn't them but a lot of times 99.9% of the problem is them right and so we go into court with that kind of mindset and that actually works against us and so I'm going to help you kind of reframe this I'm going to break it down kind of in a way that you can present your concerns to the court without incurring this sort of bias of oh my ex is the problem okay so before we dive deeper on this episode let me just remind you if you're listening to the podcast don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so that you get notified as new episodes are released it also helps me if you rate and review me I'd really appreciate that if you're watching me on youtube and you like the content don't forget to hit like on this video and also subscribe to the channel so that you get notified as new videos are released now you know the judge when you go in front of them and you start explaining what a problem your ex is and how uncooperative they are or how crazy they are or whatever your adjective is right what happens is you're standing there in front of the judge and you're saying judge this person's the problem this person's the problem this person's the problem and a lot of times when I have a new potential client contact me and have a conversation with them what will happen is as they start talking I am like I already see what the problem is I can already tell from the way that you're presenting it to me and kind of your narrative and and I know when you're talking to me like it's different than if you're standing in front of the judge or whatever but just the fact that that's your general um perspective on it tells me a lot about how you're presenting in court you know and I was sitting with a group of friends over the weekend and um one of the people in the group who I don't know extremely well um it was a gentleman and he started talking about his ex-wife and as soon as he started talking about it um or or I'm sorry he wasn't talking about his ex-wife he was talking about the fact that he was going to court soon to ask that his support be reduced and so then he started talking about his ex-wife and you know how much money he had paid her and and he was kind of complaining about her and everything and and about the situation and and you know he obviously resented having to pay her and was angry and all those things and you know I kind of said to him like look just a little tip here you know as you go into this because he doesn't have an attorney or anything he's going in self-represented and I said look just a little tip like you're you know kind of coming across really intense and really angry at her and all that and you've got to really dial that back when you're standing in front of the judge you've got to know your audience right that's really important and so you have to dial that back and really try to get your head in a state of kind of humility you know of humbleness and be able to stand in front of that judge and say look here are the issues that need solving because that's really how the court comes at this we tend to think of this more in terms of why I'm not the problem my ex is the problem right and your ex is going well I'm not the problem they're the problem right so everybody thinks the other person is the problem the court is really coming out this from more of a problem focused view than a person focused view and when we're calling the other person the problem we're coming at it from a person focused view and they're that person is separate from the problem that we're dealing with right and so the courts agenda is to solve that problem they can't really solve a person I always say there is nothing the court can do to make your ex less of a jerk okay if we figure out how to do that while we will be multimillionaires okay but as of right now there's no way to stop a person from being a jerk so when you're standing in front of the judge you really have to separate out the problem from the person okay that's real real important those are two separate things so let me give you an example of how you do this okay let's just say all right I talked to somebody this week who they felt the two of the children were being transported in an unsafe manner okay it was the younger children they didn't feel like the the car seats were correct or you know were installed correctly in the correct way or whatever and they were very concerned about the safety of the children and understandably so but when you come in and you frame that in the context of the other parent is doing this the other parent isn't you know protecting the children the other parent isn't listing when I try to tell them that the the car seats installed wrong the other parent isn't doing this thing or that thing you know the the other parent won't send me a picture to show me that the seats installed correctly you know whatever it is and again when you're saying in that way you're focused on the other person right because in your mind they're the problem the problem is they won't do what they need to do right but what the court really does is step back and say okay what's the problem here um and the problem if you present it in a more neutral focused way like you know your honor the problem is the children are being transported unsafely I don't believe the car seats are installed correctly or I don't believe the vehicle is up to code or I don't believe you know whatever I've seen it I've seen the inside with my own eyes I believe this is inadequate I'm concerned because you know the children are young and you know the the safety restraints are extremely important they can't you know buckle a seat belt for themselves they're not old enough to do that and I'm really concerned about this particular issue so you know I would like to you know the question becomes what do you want the solution to be right and maybe in that case your solution is I would like for the person to install the car seat and then go over and have the police inspect it and you know have some report done that it's I mean I don't even know if you can do that I don't even know if the police would give you that or not but a lot of times these types of things are hard to control right and so but you could say I'd like them to go over and have it you know inspected by an officer you know I'd like to know when they're going to do that so I can be present or you know I don't know think outside the box and try to come up with how do we solve the problem instead of just going in and complaining that oh my ex is a jerk because they're doing this thing all right you have to shift your mindset into how the judge frames this and they separate the person from the problem okay it's two different things and then I always tell people like look what's the solution let's think through this we one of the questions that my late husband Thomas used to always ask people is you know what orders do you want from the court and a lot of times when I ask somebody out that they go I don't know you know what orders can the court give me well they certainly can't give you an order that makes your ex stop being a jerk right so let's think through what those actual orders might be and what you're asking the court to do because a lot of times we want to go in and we just want to list our problems and list our complaints and we don't actually know what this potential solutions are and sometimes if you ask yourself that question and you go what am I asking the court to do you will kind of come to the realization on your own that there really isn't anything you can do a lot of times a lot of times there isn't an order a court can give you to solve you know certain types of problems and I think when you can break it down for yourself and think about it in that context it makes it a little bit easier to understand why the problem may or may not be able to be solved by the court now I believe there's a solution to every problem I just don't think that the court can always provide that you know Thomas used to say the courts are really blunt instrument which means like the court can solve big rock problem right like what should the parenting plan be and what's the holiday schedule going to be and how we're going to divide your assets and who's going to pay who how much support those are big rock problems what the court can't control is the fact that your ex attacks you every time they send you a message right the court really can't control that and I think we go in expecting that the kids are going to be used as a punishment and reward system for each parent's behavior and they're not that's the court doesn't put the children in the position of being used as a pawn like that and the court kind of expects us to be adults and so that's why a lot of the other person's behavior sometimes we'll get sort of swept under the rug from the court's perspective and then we feel frustrated because we don't have a solution and you know the court isn't really dealing with it and and really in those situations I always tell people like your behavior your communication your interaction and your reaction is the way that you control those other tiny detailed granular issues and I you know people people always think it's correct that I say that there's a way to shift this and there's a way to get your ex to be more cooperative than they are and people always go oh Tammy you don't know my ex yeah well try me let's try it you know and frequently have clients that come back after a week two weeks and they go oh my gosh the shift you can't believe the shift you know so it is possible you just have to you know know what the techniques are you have to know when to apply them how to apply them and then you have to adjust them for the specific person that you're dealing with on the other end because everybody's different and I think that's one of the mistakes we make is you know our ex is a problem we have somebody else that we know whose ex was a problem too and well they did those these things and so I'm going to go try these things with my ex they probably won't work the same way because that person's a totally different person and even you know we talk about the narcissistic issues those vary a lot there's a very wide spectrum of the narcissism you know all the way from mild up to like antisocial personality disorder you know so we've got coercive in there we've got you know all kinds of different types of narcissism and so the way that you deal with that person depends on all of that and that person's reaction depends on all of that and when you're dealing with a narcissist their reactions a lot of times come from their emotions they don't come from logic and so you are left with a situation where somebody is going up and down up and down up and down I mean have you had the experience where you'll get no communication from them for like a week and then in one day you'll get seven messages or 10 messages or 15 messages I have a lot of clients that go through that and that part of the whole cycle that they go through and a lot of times it's not even connected to you it's just connected to something happening in their life and then they need to feel empowered and so they start you know attacking you because they've always been able to get their you know kind of um get their needs met to get their supply from you in the past and so they go back to that source to try to you know get their needs met to you know for their ego or whatever it is that's going on but your job in all of this is to again separate the person from the problem and then stay child focused so we don't want this to be focused on what your ex-is or isn't doing wrong we want to say look here's the problem your honor and this is how it impacts the children so going back to my example of the safety seats you're saying look your honor that the children aren't being transported um safely so see how I said children aren't being transported safely like I didn't even have to put that I didn't say the other parent I didn't say mom dad whatever but if I'm mom or dad and I'm talking about the children not being transported safely I'm obviously talking about the other parent so that becomes evident when you can really put it in a problem focused way and then I'm saying this is a problem because the children are young they can't discern for themselves as something's buckled not whatever you know appropriately um you know they obviously can't sit in a seat belt yet and all those kinds of things and so this is problematic because the children are so young and if that parsley isn't installed correctly then here's you know the problem that that creates you know if there's an accident then you know they could die or you know whatever whatever it is that your your concerns are you know and and maybe you talk about I don't know I mean it's been a lot of years since I installed a car seat but you know maybe you talk about the fact that you know the anchors aren't done correctly or whatever um and then the the other thing that you have to stay focused on is that a lot of times we want our pound of flesh a lot of times we want that sort of short-term gratification and we're not thinking about the long-term implications or the long-term results that we're trying to get you know so you know I know it can be scary especially when you're dealing with something like a car seat that is a big safety issue but sometimes instead of like running right into court and going oh there's a problem with the car seat I'm gonna run and I'm gonna do this a lot of times you're better off and I'm not saying you should necessarily do this with with the car seat issue because I understand it's a safety issue but depending on how strongly you feel about it or how risky you feel it is you know you've got to kind of make that judgment but sometimes you're better off to kind of let that play out and you send you know send a message and say hey I'm concerned would you mind going over to the police station and letting them inspect the car seat I'd like to be present just so we can make sure it's installed correctly for the children happy to have my car inspected at the same time and have the same thing done with my car seat you know a lot of times if you can do it equally you'll get more cooperation because that's seen as fair by your narcissistic counterpart right and so sometimes they will cooperate in that kind of thing when you're both doing it but for the court when you're running back in over every little issue that comes up sometimes I think those can get dismissed because they can kind of go well maybe that was a one-off maybe the parent was in a hurry and just didn't quite install it correctly that time or whatever and so if you're wanting to say look this is a this is a long-term issue and you want a permanent solution to it then you have to show that there's a pattern of behavior that's happened over and over and look I sent this message at this time the parent didn't correct it I sent another follow-up message the parent still hasn't corrected it I saw the children again the next week getting out of the vehicle it's still not corrected you know and I would want to be able to kind of document a pattern of behavior of things occurring multiple times I think that's a big problem for a lot of people especially when they're self-represented is they tend to just want to run right back in you know if you had an attorney that you were working with they would probably be telling you uh look you know we can't go back in over every little thing that happens because you're going to you know make your judge angry you're going to be back in front of them for every little garbage issue that happens and they're going to start to get angry like boy can't these people work out anything and then you're going to end up with a co-parenting coordinator or person of you know that type of expertise to help you on these issues because the courts like I we don't have the resources for you to keep coming back and back and back and back trying to solve problems that really should be able to be solved between the parent okay um the fourth thing is that you want to stay um you want to stay again focused on the issue and not so focused on who is causing the issue like I said before because when you're in that mode where you're just trying to say well the other parent does this the other parent does this the other parent does this and the other parent does this well what happens is you're almost pulling all the attention onto yourself because you're saying over and over what the other parents doing and the other parents kind of they're like well I'm not doing anything and the court's not looking at the other parent anymore they're looking at you because you're so focused on what the other parent is or isn't doing and then you're not really focused on what the actual problem is or what the impact to the child is okay and and again when somebody starts talking to me in the very first instance and they start giving me the litany of complaints about their ex I can already tell like I know why you're not succeeding in court because you've already painted this narrative of everything is about that other person and part of what the court wants you to do when you're looking at various problems um or things that are going on that affect the kids they want you to look at that and say okay well what's my part in this how can I you know change what I'm doing to be able to make this situation more cooperative you know what's my part in it how can I take responsibility because again it's real easy to get focused on that other person but a lot of times when you're focused on that other person the court feels like oh you're not really taking responsibility you're just using the other person as a scapegoat and saying oh everything is that person's fault I haven't done anything I'm innocent I've done everything I'm supposed to do I'm a good parent and everything is that person's fault um that's just not true you have some part in it my husband used to call it a dance people who have high conflict have a dance and each person has a role in that dance and they do it frequently and they learn the pattern and they both know the steps and they both you know and it becomes this cycle of the dance of conflict and when you're in that situation in court honestly the judge is looking for who gets it who actually gets it who is focused on what the problem is who is focused on the impact to the children who is coming up with potential solutions to that and who is taking responsibility for their heart in it and not trying to control the other person and you know I think a lot of times I would say this happens more frequently with moms than dads not to say it doesn't happen with dads but very frequently moms will feel like everything's within like they should be able to control it all they should be able to control you know where the kid goes how they're driven who the child sees on dad's parenting time and all that kind of thing and frankly we don't get that level of control in the other person's world um you know unless there is a concern some you know evidence of concerns about safety issues like alcohol drugs that type of thing beyond that we don't get to control what happens in the other person's world and so you might think that their world has certain issues or certain problems but if the court sees those issues as part of their autonomy in parenting then they're allowed to have that autonomy in parenting as long as they are not putting the children in any kind of danger you know or creating that type of situation then the court's going to give you autonomy to parent parent parental rights are constitutional you've heard me say that many many times if you've been listening to me for any length of time and that's another quote that comes from my husband my late husband excuse me but parenting rights are constitutional and so whether you agree with the other parent or how they do things is is not the question you know they have the right to parent the way they see fit you have the right to parent the way you see fit unless one of you is doing something that puts the child's safety at risk and and that's really what it comes down to and this is why the narcissistic issues become really really difficult because emotional safety is tough to prove right i mean a lot of times there are things you can do through you know therapy and custody of owls and all these different things that you can use as a strategy that will sometimes succeed in that but narcissistic emotional you know abuse is very very hard to prove and it is you know uh you know it is it is a safety problem in a certain way but the court tends to focus more on the physical safety issues so moral of the story try to start reframing things in the context of the problem and try to come up with solutions to that problem especially if you can come up with one or two or three you know and present those to the court of like hey we could do it this way hey we could do it that way hey we could you know we can do exchanges at the police station you know different things like that you know so that you can give some options of how to solve this problem because you are probably more likely to come up with a potential resolution than even the court would be sometimes the court kind of knows what things we typically do and don't do in any given situation but you're the one that knows your kid and your family and your ex and the way things flow and so potential solutions to these problems are more likely to come from you than from the judge and so you can kind of help them out by presenting that information to them okay so again moral of the story stay problem focused not ex focused separate the problem from the person and then you know talk about how that impacts the children all right if you would like more help with this or any other custody issue and you'd like to learn about my coaching services you can go to divorce university online.com forward slash VIP dash coaching there's a link on that page where you can book a time to speak to a member of my staff and learn more about my coaching services and how I might be able to support you on this journey all right see you guys next time thank you for listening to the divorce university online podcast with your host Tammy Ferreira for more information visit www.divorceuniversityonline.com hey moms looking for some light-hearted guidance on this crazy journey we call parenting join me Sabrina Colberg and me Andy Mitchell for pop culture moms where each week we talk about what we're watching and examine our favorite pop culture moms up close to try to pick up some parenting hacks along the way come laugh learn and grow with us as we look for the best tips and maybe a few what not to do is from our favorite fictional moms from Good Morning America and ABC audio pop culture moms find it wherever you get your podcasts