Hey, I'm Alison, host of Fine Cut, a podcast where a guest brings a scene they have strong feelings about love, hate, curiosity, from any form of media, and then we discuss the heck out of it for 20 minutes. It's a blast. Join us. Hello, everyone. This is Alison. Welcome to Fine Cut. Today, I have Jackie Tempere with me. She is a writer for Women's Health, and she writes a lot about reality television. And so this is a first, I think, for Fine Cut. We're going to talk about a reality show, and Jackie, what show are we going to talk about and what scene? We are going to talk about the real housewives of New Jersey, and we're talking about the table flip, the turies, the table flip, which I just watched for the first time because I had just sent me the clip because I was like, if I Google it, which is interesting, I didn't tell you this, but I did Google it. And it didn't give me the one that you sent me. Am I giving you a clip? Yeah, a shorter one. I did scenes. You could see the context, Alison. Right. Because I was like, okay, she flips the table, but without the context, it's not quite as rich. No, no, not at all. And I really appreciated the guy. This is named Chris, the one who's like, she threw me across the room. And it's like, yeah, the song. Yeah, no, Jackie. It's the drama for me. Like, I mean, if you haven't seen the clip, like, Google it. It's craziness. It's like top 10 reality TV moments of all time. I'd say I had to place them. But it's just like a scene that I'm from New Jersey. I grew up in this, like, Italian American culture. So like, I love, like, real housewives of New Jersey, I've always loved. And I'm like, oh, I'm a nut for, like, browbow shows and really, like, any reality dating shows and not just because I write about it for work. I loved watching them my whole life. I think you sort of have to, Jackie. Like, I think if you write about it, there has to be a love for it because otherwise it gets too repetitive. Like, I mean, you're like, oh, my God, this shit again. But if you're like, oh, my God, this shit again. No, literally. I get so excited, like, when I can make little, like, pun or, like, inner, like, I've interviewed a couple of housewives now, too, which is always like a trip. But, um, yeah, the table scene. I just feel like put Teresa Judas on the map and she is, um, she's a delusional lady, but I do enjoy watching her on television. And she's great. She's great television. She's excellent television and I love how everybody on the show is trying to, like, constantly kick her off, but I don't think I would watch the show if she wasn't on it. And I don't think they actually trying to kick her off. Like, for me, of course, I immediately I'm like, are they trying to kick her off? Are they really? Yeah. It's a lot of drama with her and her sister-in-law, Melissa Gorga, who was not in the scene, but she comes up to the show later, where they're saying, like, Teresa's kind of like hack and she's like clinging on to relevancy. But my thing is, they stopped filming the show when Teresa went to prison. So, that to me means it's her show. Yeah. And she's the one I'm the most aware of. So, I'm the first to watch these shows. So, it's just like, and I don't read the articles. It's just my feed. You know, it's like, and she is one I'm very aware of, and I've seen pictures of her and her husband. So many times, and they, I mean, they remind me of people from the show Jersey Shore, from the MTV show. Yeah, they sit there. It's all in the same. And they're cut from that same kind of world. Like, if you will. Yeah. And I, I haven't got to do something to cook you something too, because she clips over the table and then it appears as though, very soon after, she does not care at all. Yeah, she's like fine. Yeah. She's just like going about her day, she's like, and they're like, how did you calm down so fast. Right. Like, why is everyone so upset? Like, I just told her, and it's so funny because Danielle, that's her name, right? Danielle's job. Yes. She just told her to pay attention. Mm hmm. And that. Oh my God. I was like, so Teresa wasn't there. We could have a really good conversation about who has told Teresa to pay attention. Because literally, it's like, who, like, who hurt you, Teresa? But no, literally, who told her that she doesn't pay attention and that triggered her so much. Because. Amazing. Yeah, because the way she even says, like, she told me to pay attention. Like, she told her she was like, the stupidest fucking woman she's ever known, which is not what she said. No, not at all. And she thought of because it was an aggressive conversation. But yeah, it was like, that's what I think fascinates people about, it fascinates me about the scene is like how quickly it changed. Like, typical housewife, fair of, like, screaming insults at each other to, like, throwing drinks and, like, literally flipping this, like, gigantic dinner table in the middle of a restaurant, like, outrageous behavior. And a table that's very difficult to flip, which is also like the adrenaline of it. Oh my God. Because she's going at it. Like it is not an easy flip. She has to do, try multiple times to get. Yeah, no, she's committed. Yeah, you're so right. It was like the one thing that they said that Danielle said was like, you're like, you're not paying attention and then she's like, I'm not paying attention. Like, you prostitution whore. Also that phrasing, you prostitution whore married 19 time or engaged. Engaged. Yeah, like prostitution whore. Great. Great turn of phrase because it just doesn't make any sense. The first time I heard it, I was like, if I'm missing something, you should say, like, probably shouldn't be a question mark or question mark. No, that's like one of my favorite things. Like, I think as a writer to watching these shows, like, the language that they use is very fascinating to me. And Teresa in general is really not good with an analogy. That's like one of the main plot points on the show, I would argue is that the women do not understand analogies. So there was one scene in particular where one of the women said, like, what if I said your daughter was doing coke at a Rutgers party and Teresa just like lost her mind and she's like, she said my daughter is doing coke and it's like, no, it's an analogy. She's saying, what if I were to say this, and it was a whole season of just like them trying to like get her to understand like basic language. It was just like the lights were on, but nobody was home like it was just so funny to me and like, like you're right, like they do need a therapist in there. Oh, but they would never get one. I mean, that's the whole point is like, keep me in these people as raw and intoxicated. I mean, generally, in these kinds of scenes, regardless of what show it is, like they're very liberal on the force. No, certainly, certainly. And like that one I mean we saw the wine glass all over the table, and like, yeah, before she looks at, and I've read that filming that scene, they started filming I think at like eight or nine o'clock in the morning, and it was like an eight hour long day, and that just like happened at the very end of the day, and it was like relatively calm beforehand, and that always fascinates me that they could really be like, as a viewer, like, I think you kind of like to think that like, oh, this is actually like, and it's just like, you know, straight from the camera television and la di da da da, but there's so much producing and like stuff that goes into it that like, yeah, to imagine that they were truly sitting at that table for eight hours like I might have flipped it too like that's a long, long day. And they've cleared some glasses, Jackie, from that tape, I mean, because it is well though, and like a bachelor with those rose ceremonies, and that whole process like it takes into like that first rose ceremony, oftentimes they wrap it like five a month, you know, it's a hugely, it's so long, and they don't have a ton of food, but they do have a lot of alcohol, and I mean you have to think about how you would like you say you might flip it I would definitely lose my shit, like that's why I could never know, because I don't drink but like I drink our straight without being like, with barely any food. Yeah, with cameras in your face. I think that's the funny thing too with these shows now is like now that there's been some like lawsuits around the food and drinks that are provided to people. I feel like a lot of the shows it's just like shots of food like look plates of sandwiches like we are actually offering them food they're just not eating it. So it's because they need to stay in that dress that they've stapled on to themselves. No, literally. There was a lawsuit against the love is blind producers that they weren't feeding them enough and then this season it was like sushi bowls like taco night it was like everything was like a whole big food experience. Yeah, we see it. Yeah, like you know eating would be helpful but I do think that they try and yeah like having I was sharing with you before we hopped on that I was able to go I watched like the behind the scenes filming of a real house in New York episode. So I got to kind of see what like how the sausage is made so to speak and I was honestly kind of disappointed by it, because it's this thing that I turned to for like joy and silliness. I just saw the like procedure behind it I was like oh they each have a producer, their producers are listening in like, I don't even know like they're in the situation room at the White House like it's crazy to me like they're like down there and they have like a little group of people that were just there because it was a tequila launch party that I went to and they were filming a dinner. So women are eating barely eating dinner. I mean a lot of them don't eat in the producers defense. Yeah, a lot of these people don't eat. They're not a bountiful option of food at this event either. I left hungry as well. Me and my friend Wendy is on the way home. But yeah it was crazy because it's just like these women sitting eating dinner at this table, then there's like 17 cameras there's a producer for each individual lady, then there's a row of people behind the cameras making sure that none of the guests like bang into the cameras. And then there's like me and the other guests who are all out with their phones like filming the cameras filming these ladies eating and I'm just like oh we're lost. Like this is bad. Like this is not good for our culture like I am enjoying every moment of this like I'm in my element but like this is not good we've lost the plot. That's funny it's very meta to like the filming of the filming. It's so weird and I was like I hate that I'm participating in this but like also I'm so excited. Yeah, I think I mean I do think it's interesting to know because people obviously in the YouTube comments you know people love to theorize what's happening and everyone's like oh this is all written. I think you know it's like okay but it's not, you know it's actually more complex than it just being written. Yeah it's not scripted it's just like there's a lot of like, if it was scripted they wouldn't need 17 cameras. No they would be scripted they would know exactly what to shoot when. Right. So it's like it's really like a news coverage like that's what I was telling so I worked as like a breaking news reporter for like 10 years and that's what the environment of that shoot felt like to me where I was like I went with my girlfriend and we're like okay like I was like we need to stand our ground like we need to widen our stance so that we're not getting edged out by the cameras and just like can you relax like we're not covering a fire right now we're just having a drink like calm but I was like right back in that like adrenaline mode and then we were like okay we're overwhelmed we're going to go downstairs we're going to go to the bathroom we're going to collect ourselves. We're going to go downstairs and there's seven cameras there's two of the women are like having some sort of like heated conversation in front of the bathrooms. Yeah the bathroom is going to be in the background like huh. Did you sign a release you must have signed it. So that you will yeah you might be. Oh that's fun. Another thing is like to like get into like I don't know I was invited by one of the women's publicists written about her for work. And she's like oh it's an intimate gathering of friends and family and like we get there and it's like a movie set you know there's like a line of people like waiting to sign their leases and then you have to take a picture with the release so they know. Yeah that's you. So it was just like yeah I was thinking that I was going to like waltz into like one of these parties and it was going to be like very chic and glamorous and I was like oh this is real work like they're working like they're on the clock and they were like focused so I've definitely felt weird watching the shows in retrospect. I'm sure it changes your perspective on the show like having that proximity to the process and I would say that those dinner table scenes are probably the most camera intensive because in general even when something scripted. Dinner table scenes are very complicated because you're trying to get coverage and everyone look at everyone with whatever's in their hand like all of these very complicated things because I'm sure you saw because of how long it took to shoot this and how important editing is yeah yeah right so the dinner table scene like if they're filming that for eight hours like we saw like 30 like 30 seconds of that is like like culture canon right but they did so much work to get there and I think there's I mean I didn't hear what the producers are telling people but I feel like very like middle school like oh for sure like Amanda so and so just said that you didn't have enough food at your party and then you should go confront her about that in the bathroom or whatever. So it was very like interesting to see like the stirring of the pot happening in real time. I mean imagine if you were at a party and you had someone next to you who was just telling you all this shit everyone was saying about you. Exactly about. Yes I mean how dysregulated or like just no matter how like together you feel before you walk in even if you know that's going to happen. It's it's and it's mostly petty stuff. You know and I love about it is like arguments are around ridiculous things like the real house I was a salt lake city one of their main plot points was that one woman told another woman that she smelled like a hospital. And it was like the whole season was like you smell like hospital and the woman was like you can't say that to me like I'm traumatized because my aunt or no it wasn't she said I'm traumatized about hospitals because I went to the hospital to have my heart glands removed. So you can't mention hospitals to me okay I'm like, this is an interesting study of humanity here like yes, you have your older glands removed. Interesting to know. Yes, what does, I mean I guess we know what hospital smells like but to like really surround an entire like 24 episodes season around that one comment is so crazy to me and so interesting. I mean it is like a middle school because it is the kind of thing that happened back then someone would say one thing and it would catch fire. And it would become somebody's identity like she would become hospital smell. Yeah, no literally a few I like babysat my nephew few months ago and he was telling someone an Xbox that they smelled like tuna fish and I was like I saw him like a housewife show that would be like three seasons worth of material like so and so smells like tuna fish and the four square line or whatever, but it's just like fascinating to like see it all play out and then I think have the additional layer of like watching it I was just like wow this is this is weird And do you feel like I mean this is like very much my outside perspective but I feel like part of the reason the shows are so successful is because they're so wealthy. You don't feel like bad. Yeah, I think. Hmm, I think there's something to that and it's also like there's I did write an article to like about the real housewives of New York this like new group and whether or not they actually are as wealthy as they. They are because that's a big thing with housewives as well like. People even I know that. Yeah, they'll like rent a mansion that they film it and then they live in like an apartment that's like two hours outside of the city or something and that, you know, it always gets brought up or whatever. But I think that there's an aspect of like well you put yourself out there so like you know participate in this experiment with you now. Yeah, I think there's something that's like well this is also silly so I don't feel bad for any of them because it's just nonsense and like, for me it's like, I don't know, I think it's really bizarre that like watching these like middle age women scream at each other really is like soothing to me but it is. And I think it's so weird but it works. I think it's a really powerful distraction like because I will know that something happened because my social media will blow up specific always instagram stories I feel like that's where a lot of people are like did you see the thing you know and yeah. And every time I'll be sort of weekly tempted to go check it out but then I'm like but I don't have all the context and I'm not invested in these people like, it's sort of like when a friend tells you about a fight and friends of theirs. You know, like a great kind of like awesome to hear is I think that's what it is it's like so you're not a relative has nothing to do with me. I hear everything like please if it has if it's to do with people that I know I don't want to know I'm like getting out of it I don't want my opinion altered but yeah like somebody's like hometown friend and her boyfriend getting into a fight like give me the transcripts I want to be interested if I get all the context but I don't want to hear just the little scene of where she told him he was you know. Yeah, you gotta know why it counts. And that's why I got into these crazy rabbit holes of shows. I think it's actually really they've showed how powerful it is to create something that like people are rewarded for going down the rabbit hole like you feel they've created this world where these people feel noble in some way. Yeah, they're knowable and then also there's just like such a strong fandom, which is also really bizarre to witness like I've been to, I went with one of my friends to like a podcast recording like a, it's like a bravo recap podcast. And when we're there it's like everybody is wearing like merch that's like saying that the women have said different things from the it was like this is so bizarre and then like one of the women came out and she's just like repeating her during Dometley for those who watch came out and she's saying her like tagline of like a make it and I made it nice and I'm like wow like this is like an alternate universe like I don't even know where to look. There's like everybody has something fun on like crazy and the way that people react it's like, I don't know like Beyonce just stepped out. Yeah, I've seen some of that and I mean and you see them launch businesses based on it's some success. Yes. Yeah, definitely. Some of them. I mean, Vander broke my god. Yeah, she's in Los Angeles so it's just like, it's everywhere. Yes, truly. I'm not the target audience. I don't have that kind of money to burn. No, I also don't care. You know, I'm not going to make myself do something spend money I don't really want to spend because I don't have the attachment to it. Yeah, like I would be like I need to go get like a go cheese balls like I'm a lunatic but I've tried to get my friends to go with me in LA and she's always been like, why don't we get somewhere that's better. Let's see, I will make my pilgrimage out to to sir at one point, but I don't know when. Yeah, I mean it's, it's very powerful and I'm glad you picked it because I'm interested but not enough to go down the rabbit hole so it's fun for me to talk about it and to just like think about. I mean, there are these middle aged women which generally we're supposed to be kind of disappearing. Yeah, that's them often right that society's sort of you're cut off right like we're done with you, you're middle aged and they're saying the opposite. Yeah, and I think that's cool too because like you're right like we don't really see examples of women like beyond what like 35 pretty much like no not definitely not these women like ready to fist fight war in their 50s and like living like these extravagant lives and like having businesses and having all of these like different layers of their personalities like I don't think that we see that often anywhere so it is really interesting that it's portrayed on Bravo is it the best portrayal of your average like everyday woman who's in her 50s. Probably not, but it's still like we're being brought into their lives and like their families too, which is why I personally like Jersey a lot is because it's all really surrounding you know family it's very like Italian. And I think that that's interesting to watch people. I mean, they're all like very it's life so it's like watching people deal with grief like, you know, watching Teresa Judas, his parents pass away and us watch the ceremonies on television it's a very bizarre like parasocial relationship to have. There is a part of it that's like, you know, then when I had my grandmother pass away as like oh like it's similar feelings almost so you can relate to them and some sort of on a human level, which I think is very interesting and it's not something we see from that like demographic of women very often. I mean I love that that like there's more, you know just like voices out there. And they are talking about things that are everyday life with their. You're talking about things. It's like slant, you know, like, I mean. I mean there's lots to be said about like aging and I mean, these women are definitely like many of them got a lot of plastic surgery but they're open about it which I find refreshing. I do too, because there's so many I because I get frustrated with all the people say they just do a lot of yoga, you know, it's like up. It's just like I also do yoga, it doesn't affect me that way. Yeah, that's not how yoga works. You're still I'm going to get like wrinkles and my forehead like, right, it's just my skin, you know. I do appreciate and that they, yeah, that they're forthright about it and they're proud of it like they can afford to do it and love it. They're doing it. This and that like I mean one of the women on one of the franchises have like a coming out party for her new boobs. I'm like, do it. I like that better than someone like, you know, Jennifer Lopez who says like she uses like olive oil and soap. And that's why her skin is beautiful. Like, come on, be real, like we know you've gotten something. Yeah, but they don't also want to give away their parents doctors their secrets. Yeah, because you can definitely tell the people of the good ones. Yeah, I'm like trying to enter the. Hello, my dog is on the floor. It's, they know we're talking. So, will anything else you want to say about the scene or real housewives or anything? I think the behind the scenes, like being on set, I think honestly, if anything is very eye opening. Because they do a good job of hiding all the machinations like in the editing too. I guarantee they're like, oh, we don't want that shot because it has a bunch of cameras in it. Yeah, and that's the thing too. And I feel like with like as someone that's like a real viewer of Bravo and like many of their shows, they do break the fourth wall more often recently. Which I find very fascinating when they like talk about like, oh, well, I have to talk about this conversation with my girlfriend because it's going to air. And I think that that's an interesting new like kind of development because the reality stars are kind of like learning the process. It's not like such a new phenomenon like it was back in like when it began like 15 years ago, like people know how to play the game and I watching that development over time has been interesting. And I do wonder like, if it continues, like, do we just continue to get more and more reality television or people eventually going to get sick of it and want to go back to like more scripted things. I don't know. I mean, I personally think that much like the conversation about sitcoms. That's one that happens quite often like our sitcoms dying and they never really die. They change, they evolve, they have like peaks where you're like, oh my god, there's so many amazing sitcoms right now and then there are times and there are less. And I think reality is just another genre of television now, like it's just with us. I think for as a person who has really finished film school really when it was just starting to blow up. Like before that it was really just real world and road rules. Yeah. And. Oh my god. For me, that was, I mean, I watched that religiously because I was in high school and I was like, this is like what life is going to be like, you know, we're still living in that that is absolutely not illusion. Like it was still so new that it was a illusion we can buy into. Yeah, you know, and there was no internet. So it's completely different experience. Yeah, which is like that's another layer of the party. So much, it's a participation. It's a need to talk to people like there are people that I only DM about housewives and bravo and I love them. And if there wasn't the internet, it wouldn't be the same experience. Like, no, I don't think you can get popular because there's like, like who you're going to talk about it with, I guess, who you're, whoever you see, but like the. Just randomly lines and all of that is just like, it just adds to it. It makes it so much more fun, I think. Yeah, I, from the outside, I'm like, oh, I'm so glad. Like, because some of the people, it's like the thing they get the happiest about people I know and I'm just like, God, they have it, like, anything that makes people happy. Right. But like, I love it too. Yeah. It does make me happy. Yeah. And I think that's really powerful. And so I don't think it's like, there were, I think there will be this genre in different forms. Like, and it, yeah, it's just going to continue. I just wonder if it'll be more like hyper realistic, like more documentarian style or like, if we're going to, like, I wonder what the future of housewives is, I guess, because we're. They also wonder that Jackie. I'm sure they talk about it a lot. Yeah. Get me in there. I got some. Yeah. Like, they probably have a think tank where they're discussing that because too, it's, I mean, it's a huge part of it is casting. Mm. And like you say, without Teresa, what is it or in that? And. Yeah. And each city has their own. Teresa, or like crew, or like their own. I mean, there's like people that are like, die hard fans for these women, which is also. Like a fascinating thing to me. Like, I was, when I did the filming, I was like, Oh, I have to get a picture with, you know, Brian Whitfield from real housewives of New York. And it's like, I mean, she was lovely. She was very nice. Why do I need to get a picture with this? Like a regular girl? I don't know, but it is that parasocial thing where you're like, I feel and I'm always just interested when I feel that connection with. And then like an actor or character, like I think I'm the person who's like, I do this connection, you know, like, because I know it's not real. No, because we don't really know. Right. So I know that. Yeah, and so for me, it's an, I enjoy sort of like deconstructing like, Oh, why, why is this person speaking to me? Right. So, but there are people who don't know it's not real. And that's the thing that's like, that's the problem. And I think that's like where it gets a little toxic online as well. For sure. Because they're, it's sort of like Teresa to bring it full circle, not understanding analogies. Right. They don't understand that they're not these aren't their friends. Right. It's not real. I think that's like the thing that people don't understand is like, and the women on the show don't care as much as they do. And I think that's a thing that would be difficult for anyone to believe. That's an interesting point. The women on the show don't care about the drama as much you mean. I don't think they do because they're just like, Oh, this will be a good story. Like a job because it's work to create problems. Yes. And they want, they want eyes on the show. Like, you are a real housewife. You are invested in creating situations that people want to watch. 100%. Yeah. And they're like doing weird family parties and having these like themed events and what have you to like get the eyeballs. Yes. And they have a group of producers, a large group of producers that's like brainstorming. And less plot ideas. That's crazy. Parties, conflicts, like dream scenarios that something might have, you know, and then they're all talking about. Yes. They are working hard at it. That was the interesting part to me. I think it was seeing like, like you always hear like, Oh, the producers, the producers, this, that and the other, but to like really see it happening. I was like, Oh, they really are like little like spot. And it's a skill. Mm hmm. I couldn't do that. It is a real stress out. Yeah. Like, Oh, everybody's going to be mad at me. But then everyone's going to be happy with you because you just got the, you know, like you have to have this sort of, I don't know, it's a very specific. It is, but it's so interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, well, this has been a lot of fun. It has been forever. So Jackie, if people would like to find you and you're writing, not just on reality, whatever you would like to share, where would they go to find you? Best way to find me is my website, Jackie to para.com. And I am probably most active on Instagram, which is at J. A. C K T E M P Jack temp. And yeah, I'm a writer, I'm a copywriter, and I am a storytelling coach that I work with women to really, yeah, share their stories in a powerful way, which is honestly a lot of what reality TV is too. So it all is similar. Yeah, some threads. Definitely. I will put all that in the show notes. And thank you, Jackie, and to everyone who listened, we know you have lots of choices of things to listen to. So we appreciate you spending time with us. Okay. Thank you. [ Silence ]
