Hello, I'm Cameron Beer, and my favorite Cardaean Martin product, or products I should say, is definitely their hoof range. They have got an amazing extensive range of products. You have to go onto their website and look. They've got a product for every type of condition for your horses hooves. But as they say, no hoof, no horse, and my favorite product is the corner crest in original hoof ointment. By using that product, I really know that my horses that have perhaps quite weak hooves or go a little bit flaky in the summer, I'm doing my best in the hooves are really holding up to the work so much better. So the corner crest in original hoof ointment is definitely a go-to. (upbeat music) - Welcome back to the Grassroots Show. Very kindly supported by foreign equi. Now it is National Racehorse Week. So we thought this would be the perfect time to talk through retraining a racehorse for Grassroots Eventing, and just kind of the process behind it. Now, the lady with me to talk through exactly that is Lucy Robinson, who has been eventing at the Grassroots level this year with a racehorse that she has retrained. Lucy, thank you so much for coming on the show. - Thank you for having me. So I'm just quite conscious that you said the audio has to be good, and my Labrador has just started to drink. So hopefully you come here. She's in the background, but thank you so much Rosie. I'm really excited to, yeah, talk to you and you know, a little bit more. She's really loud. Can you hear? - That's fine. She's loosening up her vocal chords before she then contributes later in the show. That's absolutely fine. Now tell us about your background and how you got into retraining a racehorse 'cause you're actually retraining Ember's Glo. That's the horse you've got, isn't it? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's actually, it was never really my plan to get an X-racehorse, but it kind of all fell into place. I had actually ridden in a charity race a couple of years ago, and, but actually, you know, I did have Ember before that. So basically my trainer, Justin Ward, who is also a very good friend of mine, and she helps me. I basically went over to hers one day when my horse wasn't quite right, and she always has lots of horses to ride and lots of her horses are off the track, and they're all doing various bits and bobs. And she pulled out this one horse out of the stable. And after I've ridden probably four or five of the other ones, and this last horse that she pulled out, she was like, Lucy, you probably won't like this one very much because he came out, he was tiny little thing, a bit scrawny, didn't look very wow. And I had just ridden, you know, her Billy horse, who's a lovely show jumper, basically. And then little Ember came out. And I thought, okay, this is a bit odd. So I hopped on, and it was literally in an instant. I was like, wow, I think I have to have this horse. He was just, it was his paces. And he was at no way near in his training. You know, he just started, you know, schooling and whatnot. But the click was just amazing. And yeah, from that point kind of onward, so I just thought, well, actually I said to Justin the next week, I was like, can I buy him? And she said, yes. And it was just like that, it was very instant. And yeah, and then it all kind of started from there, really. But yeah, and then that's when I rode out the race horses after, so I applied for the charity race. And just to get a bit more understanding of what I was dealing with, because I think it's really important that we understand that their careers, it's obviously a completely different kettle of fish, but it's important in the re-educating for the next step, basically. So I wanted to know what the buttons did. And I know that if you pull, they go faster. So don't do that. - It's really fascinating that you've had that experience almost on the other side in the racing world, because I think, you know, a lot of us eventers wouldn't have had that and will come at it in a different way. So you think that was a key part of you being able to retrain? - Yeah, I think so. It's because they, you know, they're still trained. They are trained horses, but they're just trained for a different job. So it's just being able to understand that they're very capable, but it just might be in a slightly different way that we're used to of getting the end results. So I just needed to make sure that kind of my understanding was there before, you know, I didn't want to put loads of pressure on him. He's already had like, you know, a very full career because he, he retired when he was seven, I think, and he raised quite a lot. He'd won three, actually. It's been successful relatively. So, and he's fast. And, you know, for both of our safety, I just wanted to make sure that we were doing everything kind of properly. So, and I learned a lot riding out. And I think it did definitely help me kind of down forward with him. - Is learning the buttons, the right buttons to press and what works for one might not work for the other. And when you first got Ember, what were some of the initial steps that you took or the first things you started working on? - It was very much just, it was, I had to work on myself a lot because I had my goals in my head. I was like, you know, I want to be a venting. I want to be doing this. And then I just have to say, just, no, just come. Take pull, calm down. We have to, there's no quick way. I mean, you see some, I mean, as I said, every horse is different. Some horses can go out and pick it up really quickly, but I was very conscious. Ember, he had left his, he'd retired from racing because he went a bit sour and there were a few issues with him. And it was more just kind of a soft introduction into the work. So I didn't, the thing that you couldn't do with him was over face him. So it was very much like, just work on bits of flat work, flat for work, you know. When do I say flat for work? I mean, not leg yield and p-app and everything. I mean, literally just getting him to understand the basics of the flat work schooling because he was a flat horse. He didn't, all he knew was to go fast and furious. So, and it was just slow, you know. I was jumping cross poles, it seems like forever. And I just, all I wanted to do was go out and compete, but I knew that I couldn't do that because it wouldn't work anyway. - It kind of gives you a new form of patience and makes you really celebrate the little wins I could imagine though. - Yeah, definitely. I mean, I did actually not long after buying him. I did actually enter an intro dressage competition because as I said, he had lovely paces and the good thing about him is he wasn't phased by any new environment because he'd kind of been there, done the, got the t-shirt like, you know, he didn't care. He'd been, he'd traveled everywhere across the, across the country. So going to my local show, he literally was more well-behaved than any other horse I've ever taken. He was so chilled and that's what I love about him. And, you know, lots of thoroughbreds is they have actually experienced a lot more than what, you know, what our homebreds are. - Yeah, they may not have experienced an event as such like an eventing event, but the some of the places they've been have been on this atmosphere. - Yeah, for sure. I went to the intro dressage competition and we actually came second. - That's so good. - Our first little event, I mean, it's obviously a walk and trot test, but it just shows that we hadn't, you know, we hadn't, what hadn't we done? We hadn't done, we hadn't done too much, but he'd go out, he was focused, he was listening to me, he trusted me. And I think that's a very big point is getting the trust and knowing that it's all going to be a fun experience and everything has to be fun. - Yes. - And for me as well, 'cause of the one I wanted to do. - Oh, exactly. It's got to be a fun for everybody involved. What would you say are some of the unique challenges that you faced with free training or resource compared to some of the other horses that you've had? - That is a very good question. Obviously I'm saying how chilled he is and how great in new environments, but there is kind of like a switch sometimes which they can suddenly become tense and it's knowing how to work with that and tension for me and Ember is his biggest, you know, his biggest hiccup, shall we say, when we come now to our like eventing dressage tests is sometimes if there is something off in the environment like he sees a horse gallop part of the cross country then he's like tense and it's knowing kind of how to deal with that. And for me it's, it's actually taught, I've learned so much more riding and re-educating Ember than I have on any other horse because it's just teaches you to just wuss off and you are the leader and more so in this situation because, you know, he's just looking to me. So I guess dealing with his, yeah, quick changes of attitude. - I do love that you've said though that you're the leader and you've always got to like hold the hand because although they're experienced, they're experienced in another sport and it is that patience that leadership that you almost need to show with them to guide them through their next stage. And I think that race horses, there are birds can sometimes have maybe a little bit of a negative light shown on them and a few misconceptions. Are there any misconceptions that you think need to be addressed that you have found aren't the case since you've been retraining a race horse? - Yeah. I mean, one, they're all crazy, they're all this, they're all that, they're too hard work, they're so, everything goes wrong, they're always breaking. Now, I think that's, you can say that about any horse. (laughing) The fact that, you know, they're prone to injuries. I think, that is all about your management and, you know, it's there like any other horse. I think Ember is actually, touch wood, the heartiest horse that I have in terms of that and he's so, he's, he's so, I just, I actually, I can't be more of an advocate of him because he is my best behaved, most chilled. I can hack him out on the buckle. I can do, you know, I would put my mother, who doesn't ride on him, in, in walk control. I wouldn't probably not let her count on him, but you know, it's just all of these things. I don't know why they get such a negative rep because they honestly are so versatile. And I think the versatility also, I think Ember could do a billion different jobs if he wanted to, I mean, he'd make a great polo pony, but I think, yeah, that's a whole, that's a whole different story, I know. I think he likes venting, so, we'll stick with that. But yeah, I think they're, they're versatility. They're not as crazy and, you know, mean and great as much as everyone thinks, so. - And you say about the versatility that I mean, their mental and physical fitness is unparalleled compared to many other horses, that there's just absolutely machines, it's incredible. How have you found that transition, having a horse that's had quite a high speed, demanding life in the world of racing, to changing those demands and to venting? - I have to say, this is still ongoing, my biggest, the thing that I struggle with in terms of the eventing with the cross-country is the speed. So when I first got Ember, he obviously didn't understand cross-country. We had been jumping and we knew that he'd love jumping, but the whole cross-country thing was kind of mind-blowing for him and he was very nappy because that's what he reverted to back, you know, a few years ago when he didn't want to really race anymore, he started napping and then this is what kind of translated with the, into the cross-country. Now we worked through that really slowly, literally, just it was all about repetition and praise and you know, the normal ways that you go through working through nappiness and eventually it got to a point where he really knew now that he enjoyed the cross-country and he would go as fast as he could. And obviously that was a challenge and still actually is a challenge. So when I went to do my first BE at Aston, now I had done unaffiliated events before this, we actually won, but I would say it was not my best round because he was just gung-ho and it was kind of just going through it. - Exuberant, very exuberant. I wouldn't have said my control factor was there 100%, but you know, we went inside the time, but that was me having to pull him up because, you know, so we're still kind of figuring out the good cantor speed without it turning into a race. I think it's getting better. Our last event, I got probably halfway round before the break started failing, but he was still kind of inside the time and it's just, again, it's technique because it's not doing what I want to do, which is, you know, take a pull, check. When really, I just have to kind of bury my hands down and just hope that he just settles in for a rhythm. I'm putting my reins and go, so it's fine. But yeah, I would say that is one of the challenges with that kind of aspect is, but it is getting better all the time and every time we go out, I think we're making steps to improve and he is one heck of a cross-country horse. He absolutely loves it and I know that, you know, we're at 90 at the moment. I don't know when, hopefully, next season, we can start thinking about more, but I don't rush it. I don't have any specific goals in my head. I just want to be the best that we can be at the level that we're at and be safe and happy. But he's definitely happy because he loves it. - It's finding that happy medium because, like you said, when you first got him, the encouraging him to go forwards, not to nap because, of course, he's probably used to racing with others. And then now he loves it so much, you're flying through the finish line. So yeah, finding that happy medium, I can imagine, is quite a difficult thing. But some people say that they've found the shooter have been quite difficult with a race horse. Has that been a problem for you guys? Or has that been a weakness? Or has he taken showrooming quite well? - He, as I said, for a flat horse, he absolutely loves jumping. And I think it maybe has helped that he hasn't been like a hurdler because he's not used to jumping at, you know, full flat-out speed. Although he did want to do that at the beginning. You know, we hadn't found our show jumping counter. And yeah, so they did, they can have the tendency to flatten a bit if they find it going a bit fast. But obviously there's exercises and things that you can do to help improve and grid work and polls. And I think as long as you're implementing your right kind of training strategies, it's not a problem as long as they've got the kind of, the love and the one to do it, then you're fine. And that's, and but definitely wants to do it. So it's not really been a struggle. Obviously we've had a few shocking rounds, but that's mainly due to me and my inability to show jump properly. - And I think also pairing with the right trainer and maybe somebody who's had experience with a thoroughbred in the past and being able to make that work because it's not just a click between you and the horse. It's, as we always say in the venting, it's a whole village it takes to go venting at any level, isn't it? - Definitely. I mean, as I said, my trainer, Justin, obviously she had him for me. And she was actually given Emma because he was deemed unridable and kind of like a, just a case, like a losing case basically. So she worked with him before I actually got him just a little bit on the first, literally the first basics. But she's been there kind of every step of the way with me holding my hand and she's got years and years of experience with thoroughbreds. So it really helps having her there and just trusting her, basically, to guide me in the right way, which she hasn't done so far. That's why she cries now. I've made her cry twice when we've finished our eventing rounds and she's crying. So, which is great because I like this one. (laughing) - Goal of the day, make the trainer cry and then you've had a fantastic day. - But the right reasons are not for the wrong reasons that I've had an absolute shocker 'cause. (laughing) - What have been some of the biggest positives from your point of view, from retraining a racehorse? - It's just really satisfying. Just seeing how happy he is now, just in himself. It's such a change because he was a bit down in the dumps before my trainer and I got him and now he just loves life. And I would say that is such a high and it's also nice going out and knowing that you've got the fastest horse. (laughing) - Yeah, time is not an issue. (laughing) - My horse is fast and can beat yours though. That's just my competitive edge coming out. But no, it's just so satisfying just watching them grow and just settle and be happy. He's the happiest little horse and I love it so much. - And how has this experience shaped maybe your approach to future horses that you have? Not necessarily if you were to retrain a racehorse again, but any horse you have in the future. Do you think you've taken things from this experience you're carrying on using? - I think the problem is that now I only want thoroughbreds and I only want that race horse. (laughing) So I don't think, I don't think I want another horse. So I would say it shaped it quite significantly in that sense, but if I were to get another horse, I think, my riding's changed for the better. I feel like my feel overall has got better and I'm now kind of more hyper aware of everything that I'm telling the horse. I don't know, it's really hard to explain, but unless you can see me ride, it's, yeah, it's difficult to explain, but I think, yeah, I will only ever get the next race horse again. I actually want matching ones, so I want all of them to look like Ember now. Little chestnuts and, but yeah, maybe a bit bigger. - We have Lucy and her whole team of chestnuts gradually increasing in size. (laughing) - Can't be the dream, I'd love that, like a little herd of them, but no, I'm quite, I'm very happy with my gang at the moment. So, but yeah, if there are any people with chestnuts, it's race horses out there, or horses don't want to come off the tracks, send them my way. - And do you have a specific moment or highlight that has been the key and probably your best moment so far in this journey? I understand it's a long journey, there's probably gonna be many highlights to come, but what would you say has been your biggest highlight so far? - I mean, a normal person would say winning their section for their first BE event would be a highlight, and obviously that was a massive highlight, but I think the biggest highlight for me was when we had overcome the napping and he left the start box for the first time without an issue. And I was that for me, I was like, we've done it, because I knew that that was the last hurdle in the kind of puzzle piece that we had pieced together, that we had to overcome before we could start to really then start to progress. So I think that was a big moment for me, just a little unaffiliated event and off we went, but actually we went so fast and I only had a snaffling and then from America, then I figured out then we need to work on the breaks. It's quite funny, like you overcome one problem, but then maybe something else comes from it, but then you again, you just keep this all learning, it's all the process, you gotta trust the process. - I actually really like that you've said that winning your event might be deemed as probably most people's biggest highlight and it's not yours, because Sam talks about it on our podcast all the time, how although you can go and let's say post a double clear from when it may not be your best round and how in cross country there's no way of measuring, you know, in dressage at the school gets lower, cross country clears a clear and if you're inside the time, you're inside the time, you all get the same score. So I actually find that really fascinating and reassuring that you've said that that's not your highlight, because I think a lot of people would just look maybe at your record and go, "Oh, she won there." You know, that's it, they're off type of thing. So I think it's quite nice to hear from you and hear that there's probably other people in the same position where, yes, they may have won, but it could have been the worst round of their life and they just got by by the skin and their teeth. - Yeah, for sure. I mean, I obviously, I love eventing and, you know, it's an absolute plus that Ember does like eventing and he likes to do it, but I mean, there was a chance that he wouldn't have kind of got to like the cross country but, or, you know, didn't really get over the napping enough and just would focus on show jumping. So for them to now know that he can enjoy what I enjoy is great because, I mean, I was half preparing myself to want to force myself to like show jumping more because he likes that, but no, it's worked out well. And I think, yeah, in this process, you just got to take the little wins and I think they mean so much more because it's just kind of shouts more about your partnership 'cause as you say on paper, you can't see how hectic that cross country round was, but it was hectic. So, and I just know that, you know, it's, yeah, I'm just kind of aiming for us to be the best partnership that we can be and hopefully the results will come after that. - If only we could write on our records next to each result, like hectic round, but stay on, or, you know, a little note so that people could really see what actually happened. If there's anybody out there on the fence thinking about maybe getting a thoroughbred or an X-ray horse and not really sure, what advice would you give to them from anything that you've learned from your journey? - I think you've just got to be very kind of real with yourself because although I've been banging on about how amazing they are, they aren't for everyone. But I mean, that obviously for me and a lot of people. So I think, yeah, just kind of say, are you prepared to maybe take a step back from and just be kind of more level about your goals? Because if you're thinking, well, I want to qualify for badminton grassroots, you might, yeah, it might not be as simple as that 'cause there might be a few hoops that you have to jump through. But if you are prepared to put the time in, work on the kind of partnership and there's, yeah, I wouldn't say there's, I would say go for it because that's all it takes, really. So, yeah. - They are just such a rewarding animal and such a rewarding experience to be able to go out and retrain a horse and direct them in their new career because they're still very young. They're still able to learn. They're very fast thinkers. And I can imagine it's enjoyable journey. But on that journey, I know that you've had a lot of support from foreign equine. How key have they been in helping you set up the right nutrition for Ember? - They've been great, actually. And they've, as you said, they've supported me throughout my whole time. So, Ember, he was coming from that kind of background that he had where he was racing and then coming out the other side of it, I knew that he needed the kind of gastric support because at one stage, I think, in his career, he had had ulcers and then they had, they had actually healed by the time we got him. But it was just kind of maintaining that gut support was the main thing for me. So he's been on Nutrigard for, God, yeah, literally like two years now. And he's very happy in himself. And he's the first to let you know if he's not happy. He will let you know. But I think it's reassuring, knowing that they've got the knowledge that they do, especially for this breed. And it's great. Also, the Nutrigard, which I probably need to get him back on because I've had him on the Nutrigard at first. But maybe for the eventing, it would be a good thing. - Like the edge of. - Yeah, so for their great, they've got loads of different products. And actually, I gave him at the beginning of the year the copper max, which has just made him absolutely gleam. So it's really enhanced his chestnut coat, but it's good for loads of other things as well. But the coat, he's shining, which is marvellous. - Well, Lucy, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your journey and your insights into retraining and racehorseing and how it's been so far. And we wish you the best luck in the future. - Thank you so much, Rosie. And it's lovely to talk to you. - It's been lovely having you on listeners. Thank you for tuning in. And of course, massive thanks, goes to foreign equine for supporting the grassroots show because we're gonna be back next month with many, many more exciting shows. So stay tuned for them, but for now, that's all we've got time for.
