John Swantek visits with Golf Channel's George Savaricasto discuss the Zurich Classic and Sports Illustrated senior writerGary Van Sickle on Tiger Woods, John Daly and the RyderCup.
Talk of the TOUR Golf Podcast
Sports Illustrated’s Gary Van Sickle and George Savaricas from Golf Channel
And welcome to the Talk of the Tour podcast for Monday, May 2nd. I'm John Swantek. Coming up, George Haverikis from Golf Channel Gary Van Sickle from Sports Illustrated. You can listen, download Talk of the Tour by visiting pgattour.com/podcasts, access to show via iTunes, tune in, and Stitcher. Just head to pgattour.com/podcasts and subscribe today. Our first guest was at TPC Louisiana. And we mean just really recently at TPC Louisiana. As we record this on Monday, not far removed from Brian Stewart's victory at the Zora Classic of New Orleans. As we welcome in a Golf Channel, George Haverikis, literally driving to the airport, right? You've gone from the hotel on the way to the airport. Is that where we are now? I got in the car about two minutes ago. So I'm about to meet a colleague of mine for lunch. Then we're about to lift their life back to the city. Beautiful. A little bit of a scramble to change the plans when tournament spills into Monday. And then you've got to play off on top of it, right? Yeah. I mean, it's kind of far for the course whenever I'm covering an event. Seems like there's either playoff Monday finish or marry the two. So this is kind of what played out. I hear Louisiana. You're the black cloud. That's what you're saying. I totally am. I finally looked at the mirror and realized it's not everyone else. Well, it happens every year in New Orleans. I think that's seven out of the last eight rounds of that tournament that have been interrupted by weather. Did you set a personal career record, by the way, for rain delay interviews this week? I think I think I'm over my pitch count. If I didn't, then I definitely came close. Nice victory for Brian Stewart. I saw your chat with him. He was kind of at a loss for words. It seemed like it hadn't all sunk in yet. I think it was pretty stunned. I mean, you could tell he was out of nerve reason, the right word, but that it was starting to hit him a little when we were standing over the plot. Thankfully for him, he only had a two and a half footer. But afterwards, he just seemed kind of shell shocked that it all happened. It's a life changer when you win for the first time. This was a guy who wasn't getting many starts this year, George. He was in that 126 to 150 categories tough to really gain any traction when you're not competing regularly. You got to make the most of your opportunities. He did that this week and everything changes for this guy now. Big time, especially at this stage in his career. I mean, in the interview that you referenced, I mentioned he had Turn Pro and 05. It ticked her out on the uterus tour and other tours. Then a couple of years ago, kind of had a breakthrough season where I think he was 48th in the FedEx couple of lists. And then last year was outside the 125. This year had missed four or five cuts in a row. So the few starts he had, you hadn't really seen the ticker kind of in the upward direction. And then the performance that he put on, it just seemed like one of those weeks where everything seemed to go right for him to go bogey-free for 56 holes. I can't think of a big putt from four to 10 feet that he missed. I mean, and then especially at the three start today, he had that big up and down out of the gate where you wondered, okay, is this going to be where he starts to lose momentum? And then every big moment he came through and made a shot like that on the second, all the flaps for your first win. It's definitely going to be something he remembers for the rest of his career. No bogeys is incredible. I know the golf course was easy and it was soft, but no bogeys for the entire week was incredible. You know, for every big star from a celebrated college program that comes to the PGA Tour, Jamie Lovemark, perfect example, by the way. There's a small school guy. There's a journeyman. Here's Brian Stewart, George, who's 33, Turn Pro in 2005, went to a little school Oakland University in Michigan. These are the stories that the fans of the game and the tour from week to week aren't necessarily in tune with, but these are the guys that I think make up the fabric of the tour. Completely agree. And I give them like you referenced these Midwestern guy who grew up in Jackson, Michigan. And these are the kind of under the radar stories that it doesn't necessarily have the cache of a bigger name. Obviously, Jason Day, or even Jamie Lovemark, who seems to be the type of guy who's out of central casting. The big guy who's nearly won when he was 21. It is in the name that we've heard through the amateur ranks. And Brian Stewart's just kind of the quintessential grinder, who's kind of living week to week, trying to make a paycheck, trying to get status, just trying to get a spot, trying to get starts. And for it to all come together, I know people in the golf world, these are the stories that don't necessarily resonate as much with casual fan, but it's one that you really appreciate and respect how much work and effort behind the scenes and believe even when things are going completely sideways for these guys to still stick it out to get that one week where it all comes together. And for Brian Stewart, he realized the lifelong dream. And it's nice to see him win in that fashion where it wasn't a bogey or a double bogey. It wasn't necessarily a guy losing the tournament, but he has this one huge moment where he comes through and is able to get his first career victory. He is a quintessential grinder. That's a good way to put it, because when you talk to him about what he is earned with this victory, you said, "Hey, man, you're in the players' championship in a couple weeks. You're in the master's next year. Have you thought about all this?" And he said, "You know what? I've thought about the two-year exemption," which I thought was very revealing, and it tells you how much guys like Brian Stewart really stress about their exempt status out there. Completely. That was the first thing he was not at all. They kind of put the master's or necessarily the players. It was just, "Hey, I had a part-time job, and now I have a full-time job for at least the next two seasons beyond this season." So that has to be a huge sigh of relief and a very welcome feeling going forward that week to week you won't have to fret about, "Okay, what's the cut line? Where am I at? How many FedEx cut points do I have?" But what do I have to do to try and maintain my car or even get the picture? It completely frees him off. Obviously, he's going to think, "In August, okay, how many FedEx cut points do I have to get past the bar, please?" And I'm the Deutsche Bank and so on and so forth, but it completely frees him up from having to fret about, "What's my home? What two are my playing for the next two-and-a-half seasons, basically?" Jimmy Lovemark has been through a lot for a guy who's only in his mid-20s since his great college career at USC. He proved himself to be a prolific winner on the Web.com tour. He earned more money in a single season than anyone in Web.com's history. Had to deal with a bunch of injuries through the years and looks to be healthy this year, is playing with a great deal of confidence. Finally, sometimes it just takes guys a little while to figure things out. It looks like Lovemark is finally beginning to figure things out and how to compete consistently on the tour this year. Yeah, it's Jamie. You could tell he was kind of smarting in the playoffs after the playoffs, having two pots, basically, on the 54th and 55th hole, the first playoff hole to win it, that he was still taking himself for not being able to convert that and get his first career victory. He lost in a three-man playoff back in '09 at thefriest.com at 21 on a sponsors invite. Back then, it seemed like he had all the talent in the world, and then it was just only a matter of time until he took off, and then he had the back injuries and the struggles. A year ago this week, he was shooting 86 on the Web.com tour. I asked him what it meant to be to be back here, and he said, "I guess I'm inching along to getting that first career victory." Because he was in the mix at the career builder challenge, shared a 54-hole lead, I believe the shell used to open right here, he's in the final group. So it seems like with his talent that he's popping up on leaderboards more and more frequently to have it happen three times since the end of January, so basically three times in three months, that it seems as though his game is getting to be on a more consistent plane, and that it should certainly be sooner rather than later that he's able to finally have a week that goes his way where he's able to shut the door in the big moment. You know, it's always interesting to see how players recover and respond from a stinging defeat like this. I mean, that rightfully should have been love marks tournament to win if he was able to birdie the par-5-18. You talk to him. I mean, do you think it was more of a sense of disappointment or encouragement? Which way is this going to go for him, do you think? I think momentary disappointment, long-term encouragement, clearly in the direct aftermath, he didn't say it, but you could kind of see it that you thought it was his tournament and for a guy of his length to par that par-5 three times in a row, basically, but two times in a row where he couldn't win it. In a private moment later, he's going to be talking to himself or his friend, recapping what happened and just thinking, I mean, that's the hole that he'd done birdie, birdie the first two rounds, that's the hole with his length. It shouldn't be, it's not a layup birdie, but one out of two times you'd expect him to birdie it almost any day of the week. So short term for this week, next couple of days or two, it's one that he'll think about, but you clearly have to think going forward, he has the confidence to know, hey, just about any week I should compete. It's only a matter of time before it's not Brian Stewart, it's me finally getting that first career victory, and he seems like the type of player when he gets one, he can get a couple. That he has the length, the talent, the make-up to be not just a single winner, but a multi-time winner on the Peach H1. Yeah, no, I think you're right, he's got that look, there's a really naturally gifted gear that he's got there that some players simply don't have. Chatting with George Saverikas from Golf Channel, making his way to the airport there in New Orleans. Ben Aun made a quick exit in the playoff, which surprised me, I thought he was really steady down the stretch, and he looked a little skittish in that first hole of sudden death. But this is a good player who was the rookie of the year on the European Tour last year, George. We'll see him in the players' championship in a couple of weeks. You like what you saw this week? A big fan, I think he's a stud, he's got all the game in the world, he's trying to get his PGA Tour card now, he said he's taken his back, what is it, 12 starts. So, aside from defending his title, the PMW PGA is so focused as the PGA Tour, and after the loss, I thought it was impressive how he carried himself. He didn't shy away from what happened to the playoff, he said I had a mud ball, I flubbed the chip shot, I didn't deserve to make it to the second playoff hole. And that's a guy who's clearly confident, and he said this won't be the first or last time I'm in the mix to win a PGA Tour tournament, it's only a matter of five. And it didn't come off as cocky at all, I think it was just a very matter of fact, this is the belief he has in his game. He's clearly a proven track record, I mean to win the flagship event on the European Tour by six, and that type of field shows that this is a guy who I was stunned if he didn't, not only is PGA Tour card, but it doesn't make some noise as you're on PGA Tour. Yeah, 2008 U.S. Amateur Champion as well. Speaking of great amateur players, nice story this week with Bobby Wyatt, back-to-back national championships while on the University of Alabama team with Justin Thomas, his former teammate, who was kind of urging him along through social media over the last couple of days here. What about a sponsor's invite, George, and the kid nearly steals the tournament, how about it? I know, he added to 14 under and then made a bogey in any sense. That was the point that he started peeking at the leaderboard and realizing where he was at, which didn't necessarily adversely affect him. He had a bogey after that and then thought I have to birdie the last three to win or be in a playoffs. And he birdies two of the last three, so it wasn't as though the ship went totally south. I mean, it's finished with a couple birdies coming in to get to 14 under, shoot in eight underpar, 64. It's a remarkable story. You wonder what the solo fourth, obviously, will get another start for top tenning, but what can he do beyond that? Because he had a cup of coffee on the Sunshine Tour and thought the Africa to stay sharp, but he really doesn't have a home. He was playing many tours. He didn't have any web dot status really going forward. And this was his first start in the U.S. in 2016. An awesome story this week, a guy who was thought that coming out of college, it would be a pretty quick trip until he got on the PGA Tour, but it's been a difficult couple of years for him. It was nice to see the week he had, and he hoped that it was more weeks like that coming up soon and be at the web dot or PGA or whatever to her, because he clearly showed that he had the game to compete with the best on tour. Yeah, these guys learn sometimes. They get roughed up a little bit after a stellar college career, the speed. They're not all Jordan's speed. That's right. Yeah, he's making it a little unfair for everybody else, speed, Justin Thomas, guys like that. Decent week for Jason Daytide for fifth. We're at the point with Jason where it's surprising if he's not in contention week to week, aren't we? Completely. And what had happened at R.B.D. Heritage, he is at 179, and beyond that his game was good, but he's starting to get that, where if he doesn't win, what did he finish? Time for fifth? Yeah. Not really a disappointment, but it's just another week for Jason Daytide. I mean, it's a testament really to how consistently high a level that he's able to play at. Ever since basically the loss at the Open last year is that the amount of wins he's piled up and the fact that a 29th place finish in Hiltonat is stunning. And that's kind of what you would expect out of a world number one, but I would want to say the difference with Jason, Jordan, and Rory, and this is kind of just stream of consciousness. It's that Jason's off week. You don't really see a missed cut, at least recently. At 29th, it almost feels like a missed cut, whereas Jordan and Rory can have stretches, will they'll miss a cutter to here or there? And it seems like Jason's gotten to the point with his game where each and every week you almost expect a top 10 or top 15 finish. What was the best meal of the week down there? Oh man, that's probably the hardest question. I've gotten all week. It's hard to go wrong when you're down here. I think the oysters at Dragos are phenomenal, but I was a big fan of Bontons. Went with a bunch of the Wilson guys and the Barnes brothers earlier in the week, just the local Louisiana seafood spot right downtown. Flocks from the Hilton where we were at, just some good old home, southern cooking, some nice red fish. It was a good night. There you go. So you're in the studio this week for Wells Fargo Championship coverage for Golf Channel. Then at the players, are we here in the studio next week? I'll be in studio all week for the players also, so I'll be enjoying the 72 and Sunny in studio for a couple of weeks. I'm not worried about any rain inside the dome. Thanks, George. Appreciate it. I know it was a tight day and squeezing us in on the way to the airport. Good catch up with you. We'll do it soon. Always happy to make time for your job. Very nice job there by Sabarica's maintaining not only his focus on our conversation, but literally the road in front of him, like I-10 West, the traffic in New Orleans. He managed to keep everything in one piece there, and that didn't sound like it was hands-free either, did it? Impressive. Probably illegal in most states, but impressive. Our next guest is a senior writer for Sports Illustrated, weekly contributor to the tour confidential roundup on Golf.com and the purveyor of all things cynical, the event cynical mailbag, and Gary Vancickel from SI is trying to avoid another trip to the disabled list with a bum knee. I want to know how this is going because I'm dealing with a bum knee myself these days, but this has been an ongoing issue for you for about a year or so, hasn't it? Yeah, you know, I missed the Masters last year. My knee went out the week before, and the guy said he could do surgery. Right in my lateral meniscus blue, tore apart, was finished off, and the pieces were getting in the way, and so they went and vacuumed that stuff out. But they didn't, you know, there's nothing to fix. They didn't reconstruct anything, so that's probably the downside. So now I've just got a smaller gap in there where you have that, and you've got causes of severe arthritis. So I've got severe arthritis in there now, and you can rehab until you're blowing the face, and when you're done, you still got severe arthritis. So I tried cortisone shots, which you can get one every three months, and the first one worked great for about four months, and then I got a second one in that work. Didn't work very long, maybe because I was hitting too many golf balls in the winter. And in January this year, I got the, I don't know what they call it, I think it's a brand name as you flex, but it's like they shoot injections of, like, chicken guts or something. I don't know what it is, but it's a giant lubricated, and it's been great until, suddenly, like, three days ago, like the expiration date ran out or something, and I'm limping around here, so I was able to call and quick get a cortisone or something. Cortisone shot that tied me over. I feel like a, you know, you feel like a junk industry. Oh man, just give me a little bump to get through next week, man. Just give me a bump. You know, so I did then got a cortisone shot today, and hopefully in a couple days, I'll be back back at full strength, which is not full strength. It's just what's my new full strength. Yeah. Yeah, I've been getting around for a couple days. So you got that to look forward to. I don't really want to go for the knee replacement because it's a scary deal, and I'm, you know, where's, I'm waiting for the bionic stuff. Where about bionic by? No kidding. Yeah. Steve Austin. Lee Majors promised me that 30 years ago, and here we are. Oh man, yeah. Don't just fix me. Make me better. So wait, they need to hurry up because the clock's sticking for me. So I had some fluid drained about four weeks ago, and they gave me a cortisone shot as well. So you're telling me it's only going to last about three months? The cortisone effects? Well, I mean, I don't know what you have. Do you have something wrong with your knee in general? No, a couple of bone spurs and just some, you know, old man stuff going on. Yeah, well, well, you can only, it varies. Everybody's different. You know, you might get one of them, but the cortisone, they figure, it's only going to last three to six months. When I got this three shot series of injections, they were seeing six months to a year, maybe a year and a half. Oh, okay. And four months later, bingo, they quit working. So it's probably an indication of, you know, where you are in the scale of how bad your stuff is. So it's probably not a, probably not a real good sign. It's messed up my golf swing, which a lot of people say could only improve it, but, you know, I've been struggling. And I do play golf. It's like, you know, I kind of had almost a year off and I just can't swim the same way. And it's a little frustrating to go out there and, you know, try to break 80 from the white cheese. It's not, you know, it's like kind of like, it's not like starting over, but it is, you know, how it is discouraging. So, you know, if my knee, if, you know, I get the feeling that playing golf makes my knee worse. No, geez. That's not it. Not if it's about golf in the long run, maybe for the best time. But we'll see. Maybe I'll just write fake scores down on a card and post them and not play. There you go. More fun. We'll discuss that. Yeah, I'm a plus two. I don't play. We'll talk about our medications and prescriptions another time. Let's talk about Brian Stewart, a winner for the first time on the PGA Tour today. In fact, as we record this, he wins his or a classic of New Orleans. This is a good story, Gary, isn't it? A 33-year-old journeyman finally breaks through without even having full status this season. I tell you, it's a tough league out there. And, you know, it's just a tough league. I mean, he's been in -- I mean, I barely know how much about him because he's been in contention so little. I remember seeing his name in Puerto Rico, I think, this year. Maybe not this year, maybe last year. Yeah. But, you know, I'm looking at my file of stories on players. And Brian Stewart's file is kind of like a percent. Yeah. A lot percent. That's Monty Python would say it's a lot for a ten. Yeah. So, it just shows you, you know, you and I were talking before, you know, if I was a rank and file to a player like a Brian Stewart, I would, you know, forget the majors. I got no shot. I need to get -- you know, I need to get a foothold. I would be playing -- whatever the weakest fields on tour are, I would play in those events every year. You know, New Orleans didn't have a great field. They had a couple of good guys that, by and large, it was not a great field. Canada, John Deere, Valspar has actually gotten better, but that used to not, you know, the week. But San Antonio would, you know, don't even think that many guys came out for the Monday qualifiers. So, there's another -- these are opportunities. So, I heard Nelson tournaments heads and field issues. I would be playing every one of those. Yeah. So, I'm Brian Stewart and, you know, he beat a, you know, Jamie Lovemark. It just shows you how tough this league is. Jamie Lovemark was the second coming. All world. Yeah. About ten years ago, I remember him at the Memorial Tournament. They brought him in. He was the Jack Nichols Award winners. They bring this guy in every year and demand all the award winners from Division I and II and III and whatnot. He was a freshman at USC. He was like 6-4. He got this great reverse C swing. I mean, he was a stud. And before, he was going back to school and finishing his degree in, you know, like three months later, return pro. So, anyway, but that just shows you how I think he heard, you know, how to think he heard his back. Or maybe he went back one more year and then he heard his back after he's gotten a tour. And that's kind of the last we've heard of him. It's been like seven years since we even heard his name. So, it's interesting that he's been popping up this year and he's gotten a play off here. You know, good for him. It's been a long, it's been a long road. And he's also in there with Ben on South Korean kid who won the USA and actually beat my son. I was getting, at the time, I was getting from my son, the USA and the southern held. Oh, yeah. Oh, wait, right. Like my son, Mike had him beat. He had an eight footer and an 18 pole that he had been down to and he won 16 and 17. Mike drove the green in a par four and made birdie to get one down and then he did something to tie it. Maybe it's one time anyway, go to 18 and hit a bad drive and he had an unbelievable second shot. He rolled back down off the front of the green and he hit a pitch up there at 18. Wow. He had an eight foot parflet to win the match and he didn't make it. My son said, quote, "I gagged." So we went to play off after a couple holes. Oh, man. I saw I did a tee ball. I did a tree and carem to wait left. And there was a little tiny pond somewhere that nobody even knew was in play. So you want to be losing. And Ben on, then, you know, there was really nobody. Nobody very good was left in the field. Nobody was playing any good with left. And he just kind of, he just kind of breathed through and won the, won the U.S. answer. So you're, that's all it takes. But he's been on a great run. He went over to Europe. He's won. He's gotten the top 50. He's getting in the big event, played the master. So he's, he's the real deal. He's, he's legit. He's earned everything he's gotten. And, you know, ironically that Jamie Lovemark was supposed to get in bit. So in between those two guys, here's a guy who's supposed to make. And here's Brian Stewart, the journey man you were talking about who, you know, came from nowhere. And he's the winner. So it's, those stories are always cool. I mean, you watch the PGA tour. It's hard to get excited to, you know, really go. He helped a billionaire to win another million, 1.2 million. You know, it really hard to get excited when you see the, always think the guy to the other end of the stick or a lot more interesting stories like Brian Stewart. Charlotte this week. Wells Fargo. Goodfield always is there. Rory's defending. No Jordan speed. This is a pretty long break. We have not seen him since the Masters. So the next time speed tees it up will be the players championship Gary. That was a break he needed. I'm sure is what you're thinking. What kind of speed do you think we'll see it's all grass in two weeks? It'll probably be a little rusty, but I bet by the weekend he'll roll out some of the numbers. You know, it's funny. I can tell you what he's, I know one thing he's doing this week. I'm leaving for Charlotte tomorrow. He's coming to Pittsburgh to do a little media day thing. I mean, they've already had the official US Open Media Day at Oakland. He wasn't there. He's coming in. I think Wednesday to do some quick TV and stuff. Come in and come in and out. So he's coming in now to do it. He didn't come in before. So he needed three weeks off in February. He was out there chasing money around the world. He logged about 75,000 miles in. You know, I will still contend that that was part of kind of behind what happened to him and to get a gusto. He was, didn't have a day game. Probably only had a B minus boss writing game. And he was hanging on there with his shipping and his putting and it just, it just wore him down. He was fatigued. To me the mistakes he made were all, were all mental errors born with fatigue. And every day he kind of finished his round off badly. Again, that sounds like fatigue. It was a tough week. But I remember Saturday when he just hits it in the trees and gets out and he's got a little wedge shot to the pandy. It's one of the worst wedge shots I've ever seen him hit. To me those are just mental mistakes for him for a guy like that, to the second with a wedge. So the problem was he needed a break and he's busy chasing money in February. Well in March he couldn't take a break because there's all these big tournaments. Like Bay Hill and the match play and stuff. He mis-scheduled himself which I guarantee is not going to have to get. That's right. You're right. He is ticked off. So I think he'll pick it up and by the weekend something he makes a cut. But I would think he wouldn't let the weekend be surprised if he doesn't throw a 65 in there for the days. And he kind of gets close. If he can keep it together the first couple days. All I've got to do is get a tie on the green or near the green and you can either make the putter chip in. So he's got a lot of leeway more than most guys. You don't have to hit every green. He doesn't always have to hit the green to make birdie. He can chip it all day long. So that's what makes him so interesting. That's why he's such an appealing superstar. He's not a guy who hits a 350 in dominance. He does it a different way. I can't think of another guy like that that we've had who's really been a superstar like in that regard. So I think that's cool. Yeah, I do too. And that's what makes him a great match player as well. And he's going to be a stalwart for the Ryder Cup. He's going to be one of the horses for Davis Love, the captain. Who has opened the door Gary, although just a crease in sort of tabling the idea of the tiger. If he's playing well, quote unquote playing well is what Davis Love said. Could be a playing vice captain at the Ryder Cup in September. Playing well is a very vague parameters, but I guess he's opened the door for Tiger. And really this is nothing more than just a seed of motivation from friend to friend, right? I would say so. Look, at this point, you just be happy the guy shows up and plays somewhere, much less gets in contention. I would think if you have a guy like Tiger, I don't know how good he was before, but he's a big wild card. He's a big unknown ex-factor, not when he comes back. And you know, he played at the outing the other day. You know, he played five holes. Okay, you know, people say golf channels said, "Oh, he may play Wells Fargo." Well, funny how many sign up for Wells Fargo, the story on the golf channel.com website, the story began. Despite rumblings that Tiger Woods might play this week, that's like he didn't sign up. Rumblings, you were the guy who said he was going to play. You were the only rumble. You know, just say, just go ahead and say, "All right, we guessed wrong." We said it, all right. We said he was going to play and he changed his mind. He's not playing. Okay. But I don't think the guy, you know, you need to be playing four days in a row, 72 holes, before you're even thinking about signing up for a tournament. So I would think even the player's championship is a big ask for him at this point, if he hasn't, he's played so low golf. But yeah, Tiger does come back. I'll be honest. He's probably got a win. He's got to have some top five things. He's got to show me something if I'm data slob. He's got to look like, you know, one of the Tiger, one of the iterations of Tiger Woods we've gone through. I mean, you can't just go out and finish 40 at any times. I mean, you know, it's not that often you have a guy in the Ryder Cup team, whether he's made the team on points or a pick, who didn't win. I mean, it happens, but not a lot. I think in Tiger's case, I think he just about have to win or at least have a chance to win before you'd say, okay, this guy's got to have a game back. So yeah, he's just saying, look, if Tiger come back and do something, I think about taking him. And he doesn't even have to mean that. It was just a good thing to say. And the team unity and the guy can see him might be thinking, man, if Tiger can get a game back, we could get him. You know, it might be, you know, might be a morale booster. So you got to play every little game if you're a captain. It's kind of like being a guy in the NFL draft. When I covered the Packers, you'd interview these coaches and assistant coaches and other coaches. And, you know, he couldn't believe a single thing they told you about the draft. I mean, that's the whole part of the NFL draft. Like, ah, we're really looking at this guy because we want the other guys to think we are really taking this running back. Yeah, we're going to draft up and take a kicker like the Jaguars did. You know, smart moves like that. They lie because that's just what they have to do. Politicians, yeah, I'm going to do this. Of course, I'm not going to do that. You know, so hit the game. And I think that was a smart thing for Dave as well to come up with. Yeah, it seems like, I don't know, we need to turn the page with the Ryder Cup and not keep, and this is certainly no disrespect to Tiger. We've been in these veterans who have played on these Ryder Cups through the years, but we had this notion of what these players once were. And I think by turning the page, what I mean is put some new blood on the team. You've not been winning Ryder Cups anyway. Go ahead and step outside the box, roll the dice a little bit. Give me Brooks Kefka, give me Billy Horschel, give me Kevin Kissner, put him with Patrick Reed and Jordan Speed. And let's see what we got, Gary. Yeah, we need to have a farm team. We need to get these guys in there. Get the experience. What's the worst that can happen? Are we lose? Well, we've already got that down pat in your point. A lot of these guys kind of have that in their DNA, you know, the Tom Lane and Phil and Tiger. I mean, I wrote some critical stuff after Phil blew up with this thing at the Glen Eagles when they lost in Scotland and pointed out that one thing, these eight losses have all had in common with the U.S. team, it's Phil's been on the team every time. Coincidence? You know, that's up to you. But, yeah, these guys are used to losing. It's in there. It's kind of like when you were a player, you're in the L's and those guys in the Tiger era. You get so tired, just beat you down. You get so used to getting beaten by a Tiger that it felt like there wasn't any way to beat him. And then I think some of the American guys like, "Oh, we just can't beat these guys." So it looked like the European team was going to be down this year. I really thought the Americans, you know, sick last year, I thought, "Wow, they got a good chance they're going to have a whole new team." And of Americans, young guys coming up, and the European guys are all kind of down and out. Well, now Westwood comes back. McDonald's come back. Justin Rhodes is playing well. Danny Willick comes out of the woodwork. Just like they just reloaded and they look as good as they've ever been. So Westwood and Luke Don, we're going to get back in the picture. As usual, they got 20 guys they want to pick for 12 spots. And as usual, Americans have 8 guys they want to pick for 12 spots. To me, that's been the big difference. But yeah, let's get some different guys in there. And if we lose, so what? Let's build a team for the future. Sounds like a new coach at a football program built for the future. If these guys out there and let's see what they can, let's get these rookies out there and see what they can do. Yeah, John Daly, I guess he's a rookie of sorts. Just turned 50 last week. So he's going to be on the PGA Tour Champions Circuit and he's going to get right after it. Gary playing in Houston this week at the Insparity. What kind of impact will Daly make on that circuit? I mean, competitively. I know he's going to be a huge fan draw and will have enormous appeal. But competitively, what kind of John Daly do you think we'll see? I know it's always hard to look at this. Look, he's taking great care of himself. He stayed in J. He works out. He lifts a lot of beer cans every day in great shape. You know, he loves to practice practices all the time. He's like B. J. Hunter on the range, pounding balls all the time. You know, he's really driven. He hasn't been exempted in like 10 years and he hasn't gone to Q school once, but that's okay. You know, he's highly motivated. So, you know, I make fun of him, but I don't think I have a natural talent. I don't know what he's got left. You know, it just seems like you've gotten older. We've gotten older. We know what it's like. It's that much tougher every year, athletically, to keep whatever you have. And at some point, when you don't do anything, you go out and all of a sudden, it's just not there. And you've got to work twice as hard to get it back. And I'll be, you know, I mentioned something somewhere I wrote on golf.com. I forget where it was, but I think it was the man's chemical mailbag somebody asked me how he's going to do it. I said, "Well, he'll probably win at least one." But I said, "I'm setting the overunder on wins on the Infant Institute Tour at one." I'm going to take the under because I'm not optimistic. But if he could find a way to, if he could get some game and start winning out there, I mean, that tour is in desperate need for attention. And he's maybe the one guy out there right now who could get for him if he could win multiple events. But I don't, I just don't know if he's got that much game left at this point to do that. He had the band on a stomach and I think he had it loosened and he's put a lot of weight on. I haven't even seen it in a while, but, you know, he's a guy who, when he was on the PG Tour, I don't know if he sold tickets. I don't know if he brought people to the course, but the people at the course went over to watch him. And on the senior circuit, he might bring some people to the court. But that tour needs something. I mean, they all know if Kenny Perry had whatever his line was early this year. Like, we're like a freak show. We can't get arrested. Nobody pays any attention. You know, John Daly would could, could make a difference if he could win. If he's going to go out and finish 20th or whatever, it's not going to make a difference. But if he could win a couple, man, he could be something. I just would have, you wouldn't see me waitering on that, but he could make a difference. You guys kicked around a very juicy and interesting topic on the tour confidential round up last night. He's been chatting with Gary Van Sickle from Sports Illustrated. And that is whether or not John Daly is worthy of induction into the World Golf Hall of Fame in St. Augustine, Florida. He's had a tangible and an intangible impact on the game. The record only, I guess four or five wins, two of the major championships, but he is part of the narrative of this game, I guess, Gary, unmistakably over the last 20 years or so. What do you think when it comes right down to it and you strip it all away? Is he Hall of Fame material? To me, he's not. I know he won two majors, but can I go back and up with something else? And I think the most telling stat is that in 20 years, despite winning two majors, he never even qualified for a single Ryder Cup team. Now, so that means he was never one of the 12 best guys in any year during his career. So from that standpoint, how is that guy in a Ryder Cup going to be in the Hall of Fame? Show me anybody else in the Hall of Fame who's in there as a player. I don't mean Bing Crosby or Cheechie or Bob Hope, Dina Shore. You know, show me anybody's in there as a player who was never on a Ryder Cup team. You know, that says it all for me. I just didn't do enough. I would, you know, Andy North won two U.S. opens. And I would consider him the only one, I think he won a Westchester maybe, that's it. Yeah, that's right. But I would say his career was better than John Daly's in that sense. But he was the guy who was out there and was out there in the money list and this and that. And he was consistent and had some decent years before, you know, his body fell apart. But Daly is, you know, I'm not even going to consider the outside stuff. But yeah, the one thing he led the tour in and I believe, I don't have the number on this, but he's like the all-time leader in the straws. I mean, nobody has quit more golf sermons in a career than John Daly. Not even close. So those two things for me, that's a stopper. I would end that conversation right there, you know. But if he's a Hall of Famer, then look at how, explain these two things. That's not what Hall of Famer's did. So I don't think he is, but I can see, you know, the guy won two majors. We're voting guys. They only have, I mean, I say we, I'm not voting anymore. The guys who are voting are voting and guys who are only in one major. So they've lowered the bar pretty low to the point where John Daly may be in the conversation. But I can't agree with that conversation. There's no way. I mean, what do you think? No. He has a shot? No, I don't. I mean, I think he'll be given some consideration. No. It would have to be, for all the reasons that you pointed out, you know, Ryder Cup appearances, the number of tournaments that he viewed in through the years. They would have to be exceptionally strong competitive numbers. And the two majors is just not enough when there's only four or five career wins there. So. And that's not even talking about, I've lost track how many times he was suspended, you know, on the other off the course issues, which, you know, maybe should be considered, maybe not. I don't know. It's kind of like you get to the Pete Rose argument or, you know, betting against baseballs. I keep him out of the Hall of Fame. He was the best hitter ever. So that's a different debate. But yeah, just, just on the course, it's like he just, how do you not make a Ryder Cup team? I mean, that's, that's hard to do when you, if you're that good. We need a novelty wing in the Hall of Fame. Maybe that will help solve this so we can get a few people. Well, yeah. I mean, yeah, they, they got enough novelty people in there. They could just, you know, I've said that for years, there should be a ring for the players. And these people who are not players should be in a different part. They should not be mixed with the players. And that, that goes for, yeah, like, you know, Ben Crosby, Dinah Shore, Bob Hope, Chi Chi Rodriguez did not get in for his playing ability. He should not be in there with the players. What about a catty? What about a catty? Any catty's deserving of the Hall? Same idea. More of the novelty wing. Yeah, I don't know. There probably are. But I mean, really, as outsiders, we don't really have any judge by who's a great catty. You know, really only the player knows. I mean, if you pitch that, look, the number one catty with wins has probably got almost twice as many as the next guy. Anywhere in the world would be Stevie Williams. And you'll see a great catty, or did he just happen to catty for Tiger Woods? Who knows? I don't know. Yeah. So, you know, when I think Steve, he's done with the other players, I think it's obvious he is a good catty. He's a great catty. But based on numbers, he's like, you know, he's like Babe Ruth, and the next guy is like got half his wins. There's nobody close. Meeting guy is Dan Jenkins. He's in the Hall. Right, yeah. You know, there should be, I think it should be separated where players from the people who are never not being players. You know, Dean Bean is in the Hall, isn't he, as soon as he is. Yep, he sure is. He should be. Some of the guys, the founders of, you know, John Jacobs, of the teacher, Harvey Pennock is in there. You know, they should be, they should separate them because I think the player should stand alone and not be, I don't want to say, solid, but these other guys are in there men and women are in there for different reasons not playing in it. I agree. I think they should play that up and you can open it up and get a lot more. Oh, yeah. A lot more people in there. I mean, maybe, maybe you put the cast a catty check in there. I don't know. I mean, you get the novelty wing and there's a lot of, it opens up a lot of ground. There's probably a column in here somewhere. We start thinking about this. Yeah. There's a multi wing of the World Golf Hall of Fame. Who should be in there? Well, you know, there's a few probably. This is good. This is good. Yeah. This is, you know, Bill, I mean, honestly, Bill Murray, he's played, he, honestly, he, after, after Jack Lennon quit playing, I mean, he kind of carried the, he carried the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro Land for another three years. I mean, CBS kept showing Captain James and Ray Romano and they couldn't have been more boring, but Murray's out there every year giving us all doing six hours of stand up. He killed it and the fans love him. You can make him a strong case. In that regard, plus, Louis Caddish, I mean, one of the couple of the greatest. I mean, there's lines from that that he said that we're still using 35 years later. I mean, it's ridiculous. So, Bill Murray for the Hall of Fame. There you go. Yes. Hey, John Daly, how's that sound? Yeah. The next time we, you and I talk, we will, we will take this a little further. A novelty wing of the Hall of Fame because I think we're onto something here and we can tell the eccentric stories of some of these great characters in the game that have been on the perimeter of the game through the years. At Gary Van Sickle is the Twitter follow. I hope the leg is feeling better. I hope you avoid the trip to the DA. Thanks for the time. Well, you know, I got my drugs, so just don't look at the way from the kick in. Thanks, Gary. All right. Thanks, John. And that'll do it for the Talk of the Tour podcast. Hope you dug it. If Van Sickle and I get some traction going for this novelty Hall of Fame, I will make it a push to include Kai LaFoon. Now, a guy with the name Kai LaFoon, the name only, should get him into the novelty Hall of Fame. But in addition, this cat, who was a ten-time tour winner, had such a, a testy and adversarial relationship with this putter that he once took a pistol from his trunk and shot his putter three times. Not once, mind you, or twice, but three times. And that, my friends, will get you into our novelty Hall of Fame. You can listen, download the show by visiting pgatur.com/podcasts. iTunes, tune in, stitch, or the different ways you can access it as well. Head to pgatur.com/podcasts and subscribe today. The next pod schedule for this Wednesday, May 4th. I'm John Spontak. Thanks for listening. Be a part of the show. And remember, the lure of the distant and the difficult is deceptive. The great opportunity is where you are. Think about it, people. I'll talk to you on Wednesday. Wednesday. (upbeat music)