John Swantek visits with Fox Sports analyst Steve Flesch and PGA TOUR player Jason Bohn, two events into his inspirational comeback from a heart attack in February.
Talk of the TOUR Golf Podcast
Fox Sports analyst Steve Flesch, PGA TOUR player Jason Bohn, PGATOUR.COM's Rob Bolton
And welcome to the Talk of the Tour Podcast for Wednesday, April 27. I'm John Swantek. This will be the last podcast of the week if you're scoring at home. Coming up, Steve Flesch from Fox Sports, Jason Bohn back in action on tour after his heart attack in late February. And Rob Bolton, power rankings for this week's Zura Classic of New Orleans. You can hear talk of the tour, download at any time by visiting pgator.com/podcasts. You can also access the pod on iTunes, tune in, and Stitcher, pgator.com/podcasts. Log in and subscribe today. And our first guest is a four-time pgator champion. He's an analyst for a Fox Sports golf coverage of the US Open and the USGA events. And he got the hair-brained idea that he could go and compete, try to win the Valero Texas Open last week. It was a great opening round for Steve Flesch, things didn't unfold entirely as you had hoped over the three days that followed Steve. But that throwback Thursday was pretty cool. It was, John, didn't even know I was really going to be competing that week, got a call Tuesday from the tour that they said your second alternate. I was kind of actually thinking to what, because I wasn't expecting I was going to be playing a tournament last week. But in the course of about an hour and a half, three people withdrew and I got into the tournament for able to get to San Antonio, from Cincinnati on Wednesday and somehow played a good opening round and made the cut there on Friday, barely. But the weekend was more the same, played decent on Saturday, not so great on Sunday, but just really good to get out and compete again. It's been a while. The Puerto Rico is the last event I played and it's hard to really play well when you're not competing on a regular basis, especially on the PGA Tour. Yeah. And now you're in Evansville, Indiana as we record this in the field for the United Leasing and Finance Championship on the web.com tour this week, trying to stay competitive with sort of a long range view of the PGA Tour Champion Circuit in about a year's time. Exactly. Just, you know, like I said, I haven't been competing a lot. I know I'm going to be playing colonial in a couple of weeks here at the end of May and this tournament kind of caught my because it's just a little over a three-hour drive from my home in northern Kentucky and it's a really good golf course. So I thought, you know, I'm trying to take advantage of every opportunity I can to play now preparing for the PGA Tour Champions in 13 months when I become eligible in '17. So last week was, it was fun to compete and get kind of those butterflies back but, you know, you have to get back in that competitive mode. It's a lot different playing on tour than it is playing with your buddies at home when you rake a three-footer here or there and it's not a big deal. If you hit a ball offline out here, you got to count them all. Yeah. So Monday was a media day for the U.S. Open at Oakmont. I know you played in '94 when Ernie won, but not in '07 when Cabrera won. When was the last time you had seen the track? How did it look? The last time I saw the track was on during the '94 channel when they had 15,000 more trees standing around there. Totally different sight lines when you're out on the third green now, you can all the way all the way back across the turnpike and see the clubhouse. Didn't even recognize it. It actually never felt like on Monday when we played that I was at the same venue. It's just so starkly different. It's very difficult, actually, John, to aim the ball there now because there's no tunnel reference, no corridors to play the holes down, even the very first hole. There's a couple of trees to the right, but there used to be a tall strand of trees on the left, and now it's just wide open with nine next to it, then ten, there's nothing to aim at. It's really difficult to see your sight lines now become more on the ground instead of up at the air trying to pick a spot to aim it, and when you look on the ground now there's all those deep bunkers lying in each fairway, so fair intimidating place, tough to get the ball in the fairway, very narrow, and then as Oakmont's known for, those greens are running 12 to 14, and that's where all the fun begins, so it's going to be a tough championship this year as most U.S. opens always are, but Oakmont I think is going to have its teeth out and ready to go. Do you get a full 18? Do you get around? Play to full 18, yeah, ran out of gas I think about 15 after the travel late night in Sunday night in Antonio, but actually headed a couple under par through 14 and drove it in one of those nasty bunkers on 15 and made a quick double, and county of a couple of par's coming in, so I got it around an even one over I guess, and fun to play. But like I say, it just does not feel to me like the same place, it's like a lengthy type of golf, there's no trees on it. Having gotten around the golf course, I'm sure there were a couple of players' names that popped into your head that may be well suited for Oakmont the way you think it's going to play in June, Steve, who do you think those guys might be on that short list? I think, you know, John, a lot of it's going to depend on the conditions, if it's firm fast, you know, I think the shorter hitters aren't necessarily at a disadvantage regardless there because, you know, there's five par fours under 400 yards there, and that's not your typical US Open type of distance is your, you know, you think you're going to play with them. Both par fives are over 600 yards, the 12 is 680 from the back tee, you know, I really know it's an obvious pick, but I really like a guy like Jordan's speech because you're going to have to putt very well, your short games got to be really good, Jim Furett played well there in '07, you know, but I think Rory or Jason Day could be, could strongly contend as well because even though there are short par fours, they're just going to be hitting irons off of them. But it boils down to who's going to scramble well, you're going to miss green to Pokemon, you can even in the middle of every green and miss nine of them. It's just, it's a tough place, but you have to putt well. So I look for somebody who is at the top of their game, and right now to me, the easy pick is Jordan's speech, but I like scrambling opportunities and challenge that it's going to prevent. I think Jordan can handle that. Wow. What a juicy storyline. That would be much like McElroy after his meltout of the Masters in 2011. The next time we saw Rory in a major, he was romping over everybody at Congressional and the U.S. Open, that would be something of speed we're able to bounce back. Like many people expect he will. There's maybe some uncertainty, Steve, what do you think the next time Jordan sees it up at the open? You know, and I feel the exact same way, Jim. You know, if you never won a green jacket, and I'm not saying that's a consolation, but if he never won a green jacket, I think this would be, I mean, it's obviously eating at him a little bit, you know, he was emotional and you could see, you know, kind of choked up during the awards presentation there, having to put the green jacket, you know, on the winner, but it's not a consolation, but I think in the same sense, he never had close to his best game all week, and he was still leading by five shots going into the final line, which to his credit, I mean, to me, I would say, you know, I lost the green jacket, but at the same sense, I'd be like, I didn't even have close to my best, and I was still winning. So I just think he evaluates what happened, and knowing his competitiveness, but mostly his maturity level at, you know, his young age, it's just going to spur him on to great things. Like it did Rory. You know, I mean, I think guys like that, it doesn't wreck him. You know, maybe if it was later on a screen, he was 40 years old, and that was maybe his final opportunity to win a green jacket or a major, it'd be something, but my goodness, as young as he is, and as disciplined as he is, he might go out and win by five or more. You never know, but I think Oakmont, because it's not a big length, you know, oriented golf course, if it's firm and fast, I think he's going to thrive in conditions like that. I actually look for the longer hitters to struggle if it's firm and fast at Oakmont. Interesting. Tiger had to enter. It was obligatory as one of the players who was qualified to compete. We have no idea when he's going to come back, but any reason to believe that he wouldn't be back and healthy enough to tee it up by mid-June. You know, I personally hope he does. I think the storylines that Tiger presents are fantastic. I don't think he's finished winning on tour. It's all health-related, but a couple guys, the other night we're having that discussion, you know, some of my Fox colleagues, and it's one thing, you know, he's physically, you know, challenged the last few years, but not many people have that mind to compete like Tiger Woods has. Jack Nicholas might have had it, Ben Hogan might have had it, but, you know, that accounts for a lot, and even if he's not physically at his best as we saw in '08 when he won at Tory Pines, his mind is that 15th club in the bag, and not many possess that even when they're at their best. So if Tiger's somewhat healthy enough, I look for him to compete, and, you know, who's to say if Tiger Woods has finished winning major championships, but if he can come up with a golf swing that, you know, can just allow him physically to compete, then his mind is that 15th club, like I said, and I still think he's got it. And that's the wild car, isn't it, Steve? It's coming up with the swing that's not going to be so taxing on his body, and he's running out of options because he has been so physically debilitated. Yeah, and, you know, it's like everybody else, you're swinging this guy in your fingerprint. You know, it's hard to really change how you swing the golf club. You can make subtle changes here and there, but at the same time, you know, his backswing to me look, you know, from what we saw, you know, the last couple of weeks, his backswing looks, you know, pretty much the same, but once he gets the impact and comes into his finished position, it looks like he's still kind of favoring that back, or maybe trying to come up with a new finish where it's not so much torque on his back. So, you know, you know, the hard part of that is mentally, can you accept that once I get to the ball, I have to consciously make a different, you know, a different move into the finish. And, you know, coming back from any injury, that's, it's psychologically more than physically the issue of whether you can get over it. So, you know, like I said, Tiger is very strong mentally. I just hope he can come up with the golf swing that's going to allow him to at least have more opportunity. He's missed way too many majors in the last five, six years, you know, so it's fun to watch. Yeah, I think there would be greats if he could come back. And even if he is done winning, and we don't know the answer to that, but even if he could come back, Steven, just be relevant and just be competitive and just challenge this current generation of players, then we'd really have something special going, I think. You know, I think if, if, and we're talking about this too, nobody in this generation, we have now Rory, Jordan, Jason, none of them have that intimidation factor that like Tiger Woods or Jack Nicklaus had in the last group on Sunday. You know, I would love for one of those new young guys who are at the top of the world rankings now to have to stare Tiger down on the, you know, in the final round of a major and see the drastic change in styles, you know, showing up, showing up, you know, on that first tee in the final round where Tiger is so focused, barely says hello to anybody, and just, he has that eye on the prize. And I think today's generation is a little more relaxed, they're kind of fist pumping each other when they're making birdies out there and everybody's rooting for one another. But I think that older generation, you know, when their competitor made a birdie, they weren't fist pumping them, they fired them up. And I'd like to see maybe the modern generation see what Tiger Woods has when it comes to the final round of a major championship. We have prepared with Tiger on Sunday or in a meaningful moment where you guys were both in contention? Well, yeah, way back in 2000 at Disney, when Duffy Waldorf ended up shooting 62. Oh, right, yeah. And Logan Frog and both Tiger and I, I played with Tiger Saturday and Sunday and, you know, I managed to shoot 66 on Sunday, beat Tiger by two, but Duffy, you know, like I said, leapfrog, leapfrog, both of us and ran right by us and beat us both. But that's about as close as I got to staring down, Tiger, but, you know, long time ago in the Disney final, Disney final round. Steve Flash, our guest, four-time DJ tour champion, analyst for Fox Sports, played last week in San Antonio, he's in the web.com to event this week. You were in a bunch of players championships through the years, the PGA tours crown jewel coming up here in a couple of weeks, Steve. Ten years it's been played in May now, hard to believe, '07, Mickelson, '08, Sergio Garcia, it's been that long since they shifted the championship to May. I'm assuming you played in both March and May. Which did you prefer and which do you think presents a truer test to the guys? Well, I personally preferred March mainly for me because I liked that time of years a little cooler, but I was never a great player on Bermuda grass. So I liked playing on the over seeded greens, I thought it got firmer and faster, you know, other than the years where we had the deluges and all the rain delays, but, you know, I didn't mind the over seeded rough, I just kind of liked that time of year better. I never liked playing on Bermuda greens, so playing in May, I realized probably made more sense for a lot of reasons, but I was always fond to play in those over seeded greens because few greens actually on tour, you know, back in the early 2000s were ever as good throughout the year as those were at TPC, and I know they're going under, undergoing a massive renovation after this year's championship to another type of Bermuda, but, you know, year in, year out and marches were some of the best greens we ever putted on, and I think that everybody looked forward to them. So, does it take away from the championship? Absolutely not, but personally, and I'm sure there's just as many guys who would disagree with me, I kind of liked March more than, more than May. Got some big championships now every month of the year, so that kind of stacks up nicely, the Masters in April, the players in May, the U.S. Open in June, and then July and August, the PGA and the Open Championship, very congested this year with some World Golf Championships, the Olympics as well. Few of the international guys have taken a pass on the Olympics, Steve, what did you make of that? What was your reaction to it? You know, I hate to say, I disagree with it, I hate to say I agree with it. I know that's kind of a very politically correct answer, but at the same time, you know, I get it because it's what they're focusing on, although my only thing is you never get many chances to play for a gold medal in the Olympics. That doesn't come around, but at the same time, I understand where they don't want to discount major championships. And this year, they're kind of forced to make a decision, and if their focus is, you know, winning a major championship, I understand where they would take their name out of consideration. But for one week, out of the year, to play a four-round golf tournament, I would have a hard time passing up a chance to play for the Olympic medal. And Louis Eustace and Charles Ward, so me, Jay, saying I get it, I totally get it, but at the same time, I think it'd be pretty cool to win a gold medal. And I honestly think it's easier to win a gold medal than it is to win a major championship. It's a much more limited field. It's not the strongest field. It's not even close to being as strong as any major field, so, you know, to me, I like to stay on that podium except that gold medal and then go on to the next tournament, but I can understand it. That'd be cool. A five-footer for a gold medal would be pretty cool. So we've got PETA to a live coverage this week of the Zurich Classic of New Orleans. Robert Damron's been working with us the last few weeks. He told me you were his idol when he was a boy growing up in Kentucky. He said, "You should have seen flesh play when he was a kid. He was incredible." He's a good liar too. No, it's funny. We never played a lot of championship or, you know, tournaments against each other, but we've got to know each other very well, and Robert's fantastic. He's playing some good golf right now too. He needs to get back out and compete a little bit more. He needs to get off this TV job, and he needs to get out there and compete. But he's a heck of a player, but, you know, in Kentucky, I think you're just very familiar with who throughout the state is a player, and, you know, there weren't a lot of great players at the time playing in the state that can tuck you, but I think we all looked up to Russ Cochran in any period for the longest time, but I think Robert's telling a little bit of a bit of a bit about me. He says he's retired. I told him he's way too young to be retired, but he claims he's a former PGA to a player now. He's been retired for 30 years. He's just never admitted at that point. Hey, my Mets have beaten your Reds 10 straight. I just wanted to leave you with that before we're done here. Well, I can tell you, I know some little league teams that shouldn't might be able to meet the Reds right now. They're... It's a tough watch. They're just pitching batting practice for the rest of the league. If it's a shame, you know, if you don't have good pitching, I don't care how good you're hitting is, you're not going to win many ballgames, and the Reds are just going through a tough stretch right now, and, you know, bottom line is pitching to win championships in Major League Baseball, and, you know, you're going to fight it if you don't have it. They're just bridging the gap for you until Kentucky Hoopsies and starts. That's all. Yeah, that's right. That's right. We're at in the flesh, follow Steve Flash, Fox Sports analyst, and part-time player. I'm a PGA tour this year on the web.com tour in Evansville, Indiana this week. Steve, thanks. Good catching up with you. I appreciate the time. John, you two, any time. And my thanks again to Steve Flash competing this week on the web.com tour. That's the United Leasing and Finance Championship, and that event will be televised by Gough Channel, the first web.com tour of this season, televised this week in Evansville, Indiana. The PGA tour stop is in New Orleans for the Zurich Classic, where our next guest continues his remarkable and death-defying comeback. Our next guest is a past champion of this week's Zurich Classic of New Orleans, and he's had a lot going on lately in his golfing life, and in his personal life, seven weeks removed from a heart attack, which put him on the shelf, the PGA tour scheduled with return to action at the RBC Heritage, and this week, down on the Bayou, Jason Bone. Good to be back where you want several years back. How are you feeling these days? Man, I feel great. I just physically, mentally, I just feel incredible, and very grateful to be back and playing so soon, and nothing better than coming back into pulling down the driveway of a golf course that you've had some success at and been a past champion of, so all the butterflies came rolling across the chest when I pulled down the driveway, and I just, the flashbacks of the great memories that I've had here were just, even though it seems like an eternity ago, six years, but it's still fresh in the mind. What was the week like at Harbortown, Jason, I'm sure it was a little overwhelming emotionally? It was very overwhelming emotionally. I just must tell you that my PGA tour family out here, all my friends, all the guys that were all trying to beat each other every single week are just, they all felt like brothers to me. I mean, every one of them came up and said how grateful they were to see me back, and that, you know, they were so happy that I was back at it so soon, and, you know, that they wished me the best, and I just, that's, as a player, that's extremely emotional and very overwhelming. So, you know, to know that this organization and these guys that are out here that, you know, we, obviously, we want to, there's only one winner every week, and so everybody's trying to do whatever they can to come out on top, but to know that, you know, the guys are really kind of standing behind you when times get tough is extremely emotional. And you know, for someone who's been a part of the PGA tour organization and family for so many years, you know that there's caring in people's hearts. You had to know that was coming, but still, when it happens, you know, Jason, when you actually experience it, it still moves a little bit, doesn't it? It's completely moving. I mean, and it's completely moving about people who you might not even have a really close relationship with, that you just, you know, that you know who they are, and I mean, the cards that I received in the mail from these guys, and I mean, the text messages and the phone call. I mean, really, John, it was just unbelievable how extremely overwhelming. That's all I can say. I mean, there's no other way to put it other than it's non-expecting. You really don't expect it, and, but, you know, it just shows you how everybody, you know, we all kind of live the same life, and, you know, we're all grinding on our games, and it's a grind. I mean, we see that from the top of the top players in the world all the way, you know, down to the, what we might call bottom feeders of the world. So, I mean, we're all grinding, and we're all trying to get better, and it's just, it's really neat. I mean, I don't know. I'm going to loss for words, honestly, when I think about it, because I share the same emotions for people when they go through hard times that are out here, and, you know, I feel for them, and I want to just let them know everything's going to be okay, but when it actually comes, and it actually affects you personally, you know, you're just completely overwhelmed. I'm going to mark this down, as the time Jason Bohm was at a loss for words. This is April 26th, as we record this, that's the first time that's ever happened. Knowing you and the attitude of gratitude that you have, I'm sure you want to get back to everyone that reached out, every text message, every voicemail. I imagine you're not quite there yet, though. It's very difficult, and I just try, you know, every time I see somebody just say, "Thank you." You know, I really appreciate it. I know your concerns for me and my family, and I just, but, I mean, yeah, it will be a few weeks until I actually get to see everyone and thank everybody, but I think the more, you know, that was a big part for me wanting to get back earlier, and just wanting to get back out here, and just wanting to show myself personally that I can be back out here and play, and physically everything will be fine, and two is to, you know, hug all my buddies and thank them, and go to dinner with them, and, you know, laugh like I did prior. So, I mean, it's definitely something that I've looked forward to thanking everyone, and, like I said, it could be months before I get to see everybody, but I'll do my best. What was it like being home with your family, Jason? I mean, that's, it wasn't a relaxing time, obviously, recovering from a heart attack, but that's a long stretch for a tour player to be away from the game. I'm sure they loved having you around, not necessarily the best of circumstances, but what was that bonding like for you guys? It was phenomenal because of the time of year. You know, there are times of years in the winter where we do get some time off in late fall or early winter, you know, where we get around the holidays, and it's great, but the holidays are so chaotic, and everybody's running around trying to get everything all planned and do all this, and you never really get to sit and enjoy your family because you're all worried about everybody else, and so this time, I'm home in the spring, I'm never home for that long period in the spring. I got to go to all my kids' baseball practices, all of their baseball games, I mean, it was, for me, it was, facing hardship was a dream come true, believe it or not. I mean, I really, it was something that I really wanted to do. I just knew that in my life, and the grinder that I am, and the caliber of golf that I play, that I have to continue to play, so I really don't have the luxury to take a couple months off in the middle of the season, and I need those tournaments behind my bell. I need all those FedEx Cup points, for sure, so for me to be able to do that was awesome. I mean, to spend time with my kids and my wife, it was something I'll never forget. So it's something that I look forward to doing, you know, in the future, but, and something that I won't take for granted anymore. I learned a lot about, in this experience of when I do take a week off, that it's not always got to be pounding out balls, and I always don't have to be out there working on my game, and it's important for me to stop, go to lunch with my wife, pick up my kids from school, do the things that are really important, and I think that I'll become a better player from doing that, to be honest. Viewing life through a different lens these days, right? No question. Yeah, through a different lens, and definitely through a slightly different diet, which that kind of thing. But it is what it is, because I did love food, man, I loved it. And it's not that I can't still enjoy it, it's just I got to enjoy less of the foods that I love so much. Yeah, well, fortunately in New Orleans, there's no good cuisine to be had, so you won't be tempted this week. That was the most difficult thing about playing this week, honestly, is that I'm going to definitely enjoy some of my favorite dishes here in New Orleans, but I'm also going to have to tell the chef a few times that, you know, I need something with low sodium, lots of vegetables, you know, light fish, and so, but it'll all be great, but I definitely some charcoal oysters and maybe a little duck, we can't hurt you. You know, I watched a couple of your interview clips from the RBC Heritage, and you were addressing what was a pretty common question from folks, which was, what did you miss the most about being away? And what you said to me, I thought was pretty revealing as to the type of player that you are. You said, I missed grinding over four footers, and I thought, well, you know what? This is work. This is a job for these guys, and that never really leaves you, does it? It never leaves you. No, and that is the truth. That's what I missed, I missed the competition and the competition relates to, some people, you know, say it's stress, but others say it's the grind, and others look at it as the challenges and whatever word you want to use, but that's what everybody's so hooked on. And that's what gets you, and I really missed it. Along with, you know, I missed all my friends and family that's out here, but I really missed that competition, it's just, once it gets in you, you just, well, everybody plays the game, understand that you can't get rid of it. You know, part of the equation here is that you were having a hell of a season before this happened. Now you've got to get back there and sort of get back into the groove and find some traction and continue to put together what was sort of the best campaign that you've had going here in the last few seasons. I'm going to have a hell of a season. I promise you that. I'm going to continue to have a hell of a season. I don't care. This is the fact that I even get to have the rest of my season is a hell of a season. But no, I really am. I'm going to really focus, dedicate myself. I've spoken with my coach, we've worked really hard at making sure that the practice times that I'm putting in are quality practice times that, you know, I am definitely a chatter. I love to walk up and down the range and chat to everybody, and, you know, I love to hear a good joke, and I love to tell a good joke, but so, but I definitely am going to put a little bit more attention, a little bit more focus, and because I did miss a good stretch of golf there, and so for me to achieve some of my end of the year goals, I'm going to have to, I'm going to have to work, and I'm going to have to play some good golf coming down the stretch. Jason, good to talk to you. Great to have you back, man. Go get them this week. Thank you very much. I hope to talk to you early part of next week, and we'll be talking about maybe some good stuff. That is one of the good guys in the game and on the tour for many years. The first thing that Jason Bowen said to me before we started recording that interview was, "Hey, John, I want to apologize." I had reached out to Jason a couple of times over the last two weeks or so, wanted to hear his story, wanted him to tell his story, and he did not get back to me, was not able to, and he wanted to apologize for that, and I said, "Dude, you know, you had some things going on. I understand. Do not sweat it. We're good." And of course, Jason made the time for us as I knew he eventually would, and I do appreciate it very much. I wish him nothing but the best this week. Health, wellness, peace of mind, all of it. Not only at the Zurich Classic, but for the rest of the season as well. And the man responsible for all of the fantasy intel for this week's Zurich Classic of New Orleans, ready to jump in with his regular, weekly contribution here to the Talk of the Tour podcast. He's a man who owns more than 160 shot glasses, that's Rob Bolton from pjtour.com, and not just for your affinity for doing shots, there has to be more to this story. Do tell. It's much more than 160 shot glasses in general, but I have about 160 or so shot glasses from visiting college campuses. It's a bit of an old hobby when I was traveling around in college, covering sports teams at NIU. One way to keep me out of trouble when I was traveling for other jobs, just something a little, I guess, it's like collecting an autograph in a way, sort of the proof of the objective of why you're doing what you're doing. But I always look for the nice ones with the seal on it. They look a little more professional, and I display them and think about them, and you know, I always enjoy visiting college campuses. I know it's something you enjoy as well. Are they functional? These shot glasses are merely for display only. Let's put it this way. The optional is always there to put it here. Okay, good. Good. I'm not even going to get into the story when you snuck into Ohio Stadium, and we're down on the field running on the track. I'll save that for another time. Let's get to the Zurich Classic of New Orleans, where Justin Rose is the defending champion. He tore it up last year. I think it was the lowest winning score in about a dozen years or so. Maybe since DJ Singh, I think, back in the day, 22 under for Rose last year. The golf course is vulnerable, and the weather often has a lot to do with that, Rob. It's soft. We get storms this time of year in New Orleans, and we might get them again this week. So the recipe down on the buyers for low scores, I guess, right? It is. It always has been. And by the way, thanks for not sharing that story about the horseshoe. I think this attached to a limitation is still open. No, I will. I'm going to be careful. And I never know who's listening. The interesting thing about TPC Louisiana is that it hasn't immediately followed TPC San Antonio in, like, four years. Now you may say, well, what's the big deal? You know, tournaments have jumbled up and all that that. Well, the difference is, is that last, yes, they're both part 72s, but they play completely different. Last week, the emphasis was on, you know, keeping it in the short grass. As Zach Johnson said, the whole place is basically built on rock. We see, you know, cactus everywhere. You see, guys, I mean, I think, I think the tournament, the Valero Texas Open, probably leads the, leads the league in wrist injuries or injuries related to, you know, swiping a club on that surface. This week, you can spray it. I mean, there's water, but you can pretty much spray it and still, still score. Now, you know, keep finding your ball is certainly, is certainly helpful to score, but it's not necessarily a premium this week. This is all about finding these, these, these putting surfaces. They average only 5,700 square feet and they have sections to them. So they're smaller, the targets are smaller than the square footage would suggest. But as you mentioned, it gets wet here. So these targets, they're going to be soft, they're going to be receptive. As Justin Rose noted, he's, he's the defending champion and he, he's admitted over the years it's taken him time to understand how to play and score on this course. You can miss greens and still roll in birdies because the putting surfaces cater to that. So it's almost like the, the, the hole isn't necessarily near the edge as much as the measurement would suggest. And so it's a bit of a trick in that way, not to, not meant to fool anybody, but you need some experience on how to play your only two of the 10 winners at the B2 Louisiana emerged with the victory in their first appearances. Although seven, six of the 10 are first time winners, experience still matters this week, but you still need to go low. One of those first time winners is Billy Horschel, by the way. I like Horschel this week. I'm thinking about burning him in a one and done league that I'm in. You've got Billy six to the rankings, which is good enough for me. So that means you've got your eye on Horschel this week. Let's hit the top five. Daniel Berger, reigning rookie of the year, who you described as bursting. That is one of the most descriptive fantasy terms I've heard. Why is Daniel Berger bursting this week? I wrote it just to make sure that you're reading. Yeah. I'm reading. Got all that work. When you and I finally get our garage band converging trend together and we write a song about Daniel Berger, we can write a song, we can title it, streaking sophomore. Because that's what he's doing. I mean, plus obviously there's a bit of an edge to that and we need that with our band. We need some of that. Oh, yeah. Sure. And that's what he's doing. T11 of Alspar, T5 in Houston, T10 at Masters. Quite yet because he's not a winner yet, he's a soft one of PJ tours I mentioned. But he's playing similarly to how he concluded last season where he basically stole rookie of the year riders from Justin Thomas. He's six of last year's of Zurich Classic Berger, that is, in his debut. These are Bermuda greens. He's from Florida. He puts very well on them. That's a terrific combination. But overall, despite an up and down season, as you'd expect from a sophomore, his game is well balanced, if not slightly above average in most areas. Currently 40th on tour and stroke scheme, T to green and 44th and adjusted scoring. Again, doesn't blow your socks off, but that's in the top 1/5 of the PGA tour. That's pretty good. Berger bursting at five, Chris Kirk is at number four. This is an interesting player to me because he always kind of gets lost in his shuffle a little bit. He's a really solid player. He seems to win every couple of years and you don't seem to pay attention to Chris Kirk until he either wins or is in contention to win and then you're like, "Well, yeah, well, that makes sense." Of course, Chris Kirk would contend on this course. You think TPC Louisiana could be a nice fit for Kirk this week? Yeah, I do. And Kirk kind of reminds me of the mole, of the Bill Hoss, the web Simpson guys that have won big events. Obviously, Simpson's a major champion, but then they disappear for a while. And then when they play well, just as you said, you're like, "Oh, that makes sense." Really consistent. They know where they play well. But Kirk's sort of variables this week are a little bit different than they are normally. And I wrote about it in today's one and done at PGA Tour.com where I think what he would have been my pick if my pick wasn't available because I'm back on board with Chris Kirk. With a broken right hand last year, he ended up playing the President's Cup and hasn't really done much since he's had a couple of flashes, but zero consistency, if not below average, form overall. But since the T-12 at Bay Hill, just a few weeks ago, he has four top 25s and five starts, tied for 13th last week in San Antonio. And again, despite that sputtering first half of his season, he's 43rd and strokes gained to the green, so he's been scoring, but the consistency hasn't been there. It is there now. He has not played in the Zurich Classic since 2013, but he tied for 21st. So there's some success and obviously the experience there. And again, going back to our band, Kirk has to be the captain of the President's Cup at some point, right? Because then we can write a song entitled "Captain Kirk." I saw that one coming down in international golf parkway. Hey, you talked to me really strong, and this is a pretty deep field here this week. Fowler's third in the rankings. We can only assume he's going to have his shirt on for all the days of competition here this week. Great season, but not a victory, which seems like a little bit of a disconnect because Ricky's been really, really strong, but certainly on the short list of real serious contenders here this week. Yeah. Bring out the haters, right? Fowler's not winning again. Listen, he's number three in this power ranking because almost, you know, the majority of this is on cash. It's doubtful, though, he's going to be in any of my fantasy lineups. Just like Horshel, by the way, Horshel's former winner here, of course, but he prefers tougher tracks. I don't like Horshel in fantasy lineups this week. I'm going to caution you in a one-and-done, to get the top 20, be happy with it. But I like him when the challenge is where his game really can shine and other guys can't just pick off a top 10 with a hot week of putting. That diminishes Horshel's value from a fantasy standpoint. I'm similarly sort of cool on Fowler for the same reason. He missed the cut in his last start at the Masters. We all remember that opening 80, but he's five top 10s and 10 starts of this season. We don't experience certainly at TPC Louisiana, and in fact, a lot, three for five, but only one top 25 at the T10 four years ago. I really don't care about that. It doesn't hurt. But statistically, he's nailed. Number one in the all-around of the PGA Tour, tied for first and par four scoring, tied for first and par five scoring. Remember, it's a par 72 this week with four par five. He's fifth on touring green hit and 11th in converting those chances into par breakers overall third and adjusted scoring. We could go on about father. You know why he's in the power rankings. He has my faith, but I'm not on board in fantasy laps. It's sort of unique combination, but it happens. All right. You got me on my heels a little bit with Horshel now. I will reassess and reevaluate. How about the defending champion, Justin Rose? How about his chances to go back to back here this week? Terrific. He's the chalk for one and done just because there's so little of it this week. And so I turn him in and then move on to the next week. The defending champion, as you mentioned, led the field in total driving and Colette and Bogey avoidance. He was Bogey free on his last 66 holes here last year, went out and won over, then played the last 66 and 23 under, brought me back to the 1974 edition of this tournament when Lee Trevino went Bogey free 21 under for the entire tournament. Nice. That was at Lakewood Country Club, he won by 8 and here's something I like to see Rose try this week. Trevino used one irons off most of the piece in that edition. Rose's course history here is tremendous. Five top 20s last six starts, so on and so forth, second in the all around. Scoring statistics are strong, but I got to give the top spot to one guy. Lee Buck Trevino reference. Yeah. Power rankings. I love it. Jason Day is the man at the top and why not. He looked a little sort of stifled and spent and drained at Harbor Town, made the cut, and then stumbled on Saturday, shot 78, 79, something like that. But you would assume refreshed, re-energized and ready to go this week, Rob. Absolutely. I love it. It honestly just looks like with McElroy in speed, when he says he's fatigued. They're professional athletes and they're humans at the same time, so they go hand in hand and out in machines, although some of these guys play it like, play it like in days, sort of play it like that over the last year. This is his fourth appearance, tied for fourth year, last year. Statistics are strong, as you'd expect. Shared the 36-hole leader, Harbor Town, tied for 23rd, head to week off. That's the real key here now. Tops in the official World Golf ranking in second in FedEx, cut points, and he's my one and done. Okay. They say, well, Jason Day, they deserve to be in a maybe a more lucrative event. Well, we use FedEx, cut points in our little league on the website, six of us. I'm currently leading, so I want to pile onto that. As I said, they have six wins since this last appearance here, and four of those were last seasons, so we have four title defenses coming up. But only one of those is on the same course, and that's at Glen Abbey at the RBC Canadian Open, when he may be fatigued again, because it's the week after the Open Championship, from a strategic standpoint, I explain it all on the website. But I'm positioned well for the remainder of the season and the playoffs. It's okay, and I want to pile on, and day, along with Rose, though there's your one-in-one A for chalk, and pretty much every format this week. Plug them in and have a good time. I'm going to try and guess your 40 time during the Ohio Stadium break-in. 6.2 in the 40, I'm going to say a 6-2-40 you ran. Close? I'm just going to say they had to flip over the sand timer so that I could finish. And then they could caliber, yeah. It was fun. We invoked a little Jesse Owens, and unfortunately he was rolling in his grave, if he was paying any attention to us that day, but it's a memory we'll never forget. At Rob Bolton Golf is the Twitter follow, read his stuff on PG2er.com. Thank you, Bigfellow. Enjoyed it. No, I did too. I'll talk to you next week. Okay, that'll do it for the Talk of the Tour podcast today. Hope you dug it. Thanks to Steve Flesch, Jason Bone, and Rob Bolton. This is the last podcast of the week. The next one scheduled for Monday, May 2nd. I'll look for you then. You can hear a talk of the tour, download it anytime. In fact, DJ2er.com/podcasts. You can access the show on iTunes, tune in, and stitch her also. Just head to PG2er.com/podcasts and subscribe today. I'm John SwanTech. Thanks for listening, being part of the show. As always, remember, everything is hard before it is easy. Think about it, people. I'll talk to you on Monday. (upbeat music)