John Swantek visits with Golf Channel analyst Curt Byrum to discuss the RBC Heritage and PGA TOUR champion Russell Knox talks about his great season and first Masters appearance.
Talk of the TOUR Golf Podcast
PGA TOUR champion Russell Knox and Golf Channel commentator Curt Byrum
to talk to the tour podcast for Monday April 18th. My name is John Spontec, glad to have you along. The RBC Heritage is in the books. Kurt Pyram covered the tournament for Golf Channel and Russell Knox finished second me event. Both gentlemen will join me today. Remember, you can listen to and download Talk of the Tour by visiting gator.com/podcasts. You can also access to show and lots of our other audio content on iTunes, TuneIn, and Stitcher. Just head to pga2r.com/podcasts and subscribe today. My first guest is a former PGA Tour Champion and you can hear his fine work on the Golf Channel covering of the PGA Tour. The LPGA, PGA Tour Champions, pretty much wherever they send Kurt Pyram and he was dispatched to Hilton Head Island, South Carolina last week for the RBC Heritage. That's not a bad place to be for the week. Kurt, how are you doing? I'm doing great, John. I just got back late last night and it's a good week there, kind of rough weather on those guys for the first couple of days with the wind and the cold temperatures, but turn nights on the weekend and typical, typical heritage weekend, it was great. That tournament is perfectly scheduled the week after the Masters, isn't it? It really is. I mean, they, you know, they kind of have that relaxed Island feel there and I think the players really enjoy going down there. They get a great field despite being the week after the Masters like that. So, I think their little slot there is a good one. Brandon Grace the winner, 66 for the South African, you know, American golf fans may not know too much about Brandon Grace other than his major championship season last year. He was top five in the US Open to the PGA, but this guy can really play it. That's 11 worldwide victories already, Kurt. Yeah, he really can. I mean, he had established himself over in Europe. So, you know, if you're an American golf fan and you don't follow Europe, you might not be aware of him, but the hardcore fans, all of us in TV, we were all aware of how good this guy is and he was on the rise and, you know, I think that was really a big wake up call for all of us last year at the US Open that that's the one. But, you know, Grace was right there down the stretch. He hit and then I won that tee shot and, you know, cost him a chance to at least get the playoffs. So, this guy, he's a world-class player. We knew he was and, you know, seven wins in Europe. And so, he's got a tremendous amount of game. We will remember Chambers Bay. It seems for Spieth and Dustin Johnson, but you're right, Kurt. I mean, that was Brandon Grace's US Open until he blew on over by the train tracks there at 16. Yeah, and it was a real surprise because the way he drives the ball, the way he had driven it all week there at Chambers Bay was fantastic. And for all of a sudden, you know, that's what weird pressure does in those majors is, you know, you see some strange shots being hit and strange things happen and it just happened that, you know, he made one bad swing, but typically he drives the ball so well. And I think, you know, that's why it related so well for him there at, at Harbor Town. I mean, he, you have to drive it straight around there and he drove the ball so good. And he got this kind of a low sort of piercing flight with that driver. And so, and, and then it runs and goes a long way. So he hits the ball a long way, but he flights it a little lower than some of these bombers. And so, I think when the wind blows, I think his chances are always going to be good because of the way he drives the ball. Yeah, I'm thinking TPC sawgrass and other Pete died his eye. He may be worth a serious look at the players championship, huh? He could be. I mean, you know, he's obviously with the confidence he's going to get from this win at the RBC Heritage. I mean, he's going to have so much confidence in his game. He knows now that, you know, he knew before he belonged, but this is just confirmation picking up your first PGA Tour win. So, yeah, I, I think really anytime he tees it up, I think he's, I think maybe even more so in the major championship because of the way his game suits those kind of golf courses. So, yeah, he's a threat no matter where he tees it up. Jason Day, top ranked player in the world, put a couple good days together and then kind of faded over the weekend. What'd you make of it? You know, I think it's more than anything for me. It was just, it was sort of like Jordan Speed out at, at the Northern Trust LA Open, you know, that it just, once a year these guys are going to have a round that they just blow out and have a bad day even if you're the best player in the world like Jason Day is right now. It just goes to show this game there are no guarantees no matter who you are. If you get going sideways and you kind of lose it mentally that day, you're, you're going to have a bad day and that's, I, I just, it's a one off thing I think for me because it came back the next on Sunday and played well and I don't think he's too worried about it. I don't think Colin Swat and his coach and Caddy, I don't think he's too worried about it. So yeah, I think it, they'll put it behind him in just one of those days. Speaking of putting things behind you, I don't know when we're going to see Jordan Speed next actually Kurt. I don't know what his schedule is. Maybe, maybe Charlotte's, not sure but anyway, what are you, what are you expecting when he makes his return? I expect the same old Jordan Speed. You know, I think no doubt that was, that was really hard for him to swallow at the Masters and it's obvious that there was going to be a little bit of brain damage from what he did on the 12th hole on Sunday. But again, I think he is so mentally strong and the game that he had, I think he'll put that behind him and I think again you'll see him build toward the major championships as far as how he prepares and how he plays in some of these tournaments. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Jordan Speed right back in contention the next time he plays. Luke Donald in contention at Harvard Town. It was nice to see. He's sort of been in the wilderness for, I guess a couple of years now, Kurt went through some swing changes with Chuck Cook that didn't work out. He's gone back to Pat Goss, his college coach at Northwestern. They've reunited and he sort of found it, not surprisingly on a golf course where he has played well often in the past. Didn't have much happening yesterday though, but still it has to be a really encouraging week for Donald, doesn't it? Oh yeah, definitely. I think he's seeing, you know, you look at his stats and there still aren't, his ball striking stats aren't very good and you kind of wonder how he's doing it. But I think when you talk to him now, you see a guy who, he's kind of the confidence he's coming back. Part of the problem was when he changed his swing and, you know, it was taking a while for things to kick in and really, he realized it wasn't going to work. He got away from, he was trying to get longer and straighter and he was trying to become this guy that was capable of winning a major championship and he felt like his driver was holding him back. So with the attempt at the swing changes failing, then he also lost his confidence and his attitude quite frankly got poor. Bad attitude out there. He didn't like it. You know, I know you read probably that he considered quitting at one point during that stretch. So it was a lot of it with attitude and it's hard to get that back without shooting good scores again getting your confidence and your attitude back where it should be. But I do think going forward now, I think we're going to see the guy we used to see because he's gone back and he's working on, it sounds weird but he's not worried so much about his swing and the way he's driving it now. He's gone back to working really hard on his short game, his putting and his wedge play which is the strength of his game anyway but he's just trying to make him that much better and sort of get back to the guy that, you know, what was it? 2011, he won both money lists, European money list and the US money list. So, you know, I expect good things from him. You know, Luke Donald is not the first nor the last player to try to get longer and straighter and he's not the first or the last to fall victim to that quest, Kurt. It's funny. I mean, these guys are really smart and they're really astute but more often than not, that backfires and that's surprising to me that they continue to sort of chase down that rabbit hole. You know, it's hard for guys that swing the club, you know, 112 miles an hour, 110, 112 miles an hour. You just, it's just not okay. I'm going to start swinging harder. I'm going to tweak my swing. I'm going to start hitting more up on the ball with the driver and all that kind of stuff and I'm going to be, I'm going to get my swing up to 118, 119, maybe even 120 miles an hour. That is not going to happen. Just boom. It takes a lot of time. I had a good conversation out on the West Coast with Sean Foley. We were standing there watching Justin Rose hit balls and, you know, I said to him, I said, "It's amazing how long Justin's got." And he said it was a four-year process and it took some experimentation. It took some minor swing changes. You know, they used track men, numbers to, you know, to make adjustments. But Foley said, you know, there's a whole lifestyle change too. The way he ate, the way he trained, when he trained, when he lifted, when he worked out, when he worked on his core exercises, I mean, it was really a four-year process. And he went from a guy who was 285 off the tee to now Justin Rose as well over 300 yards. But it doesn't just happen overnight. And you're right. A lot of times it does fail. You have to have help if you're going to do that because the last thing you want to do is totally get away from the swing that got you on the PGA Tour and made you successful in the first place. I don't know how serious the Luke Donald retirement/quitting talk was. I guess it was maybe eight weeks ago, a couple of months ago. You got to a point in your career occurred and it was mostly motivated by injuries where you had to make some hard decisions as to, you know, how viable your career pursuit was going to be. And all of these guys will sort of cross that road at some point. But this was the number one ranked player in the world for 56 weeks. How do you get to a place that dark? This is a funny game that we're all involved in, John Dolph. It's brutal, you know. It's just kind of basically you against the world. And, you know, when you're as good as Luke Donald was and you get beat down to the level where he just wasn't able to compete there for a while. At least with his old swing, the one that he knew he had and he went through all of his younger years, college golf, got on tour with that swing, he kind of knew. He wasn't a great ball striker. But he knew what he could do with it and then he short game. His wets playing putting was fantastic. But when you get beat down as far as he got beat down, I mean, he was really playing some poor golf. You just kind of get miserable out there. Well, he said, you know, a lot of these guys, man, they come out and they're bright-eyed and they're confident and their attitude is great. And I said, well, it's just a matter of time. You know, we'll give them five or six years on tour. And at some point in their first 10 years on tour, they're going to become a miserable player and it happens to pretty much all of these guys at some point. And you just got to, you know, the ones that realize that they have the bad attitude and correct it are the ones that stay out there forever. Yeah, that's a perfect entree into Bryson De Shambo. I wanted to ask about your reaction, your observations and what we've seen from this kid the last couple of weeks tied for 21st at the Masters, tied for 4th at Harvard Town, those are two completely different challenges, Kurt. And I think it illustrates, at least for now, pretty complete game, doesn't it? No question about it. He's very impressive, you know, and he's, you know, the one asset that he has besides all of the, you know, how good he is in the ball striking category of the shot making, he's got that. You can just sense it when you see him and you're around him is that total inner confidence. This guy totally believes in himself. And to the point where, you know, he's, he's hamming it up with the galleries out there and he's great with the kids afterwards, signing autographs and he's really outgoing, he's really confident and he's embracing, you know, he's talking like a guy who, you know, you know, some people say, man, he's really cocky, he's talking about winning right away out there, he can compete in the Masters. But you know what, those are the kind of guys that become, you know, great players in the end, they have this complete confidence in themselves. They don't doubt anything they're doing and, you know, I hope he can stay that way because he's got the game, man. He can really strike his golf ball and he's long too. So he's pretty much got it all. And then he putted good on Sunday. He putted kind of average pretty much the whole week and then all of a sudden on Sunday, he putted really well. So, you know, that was the only question Mark sort of. But I think, you know, maybe he's a good putter on top of all this. We'll see. I wonder what the player reaction is and will be because there's, you know, there's a traditional sort of old school fabric to the PGA tour. And there's a modern day sort of element to it as well and it influxes him really promising young players. And this kid is very, very different. And what he does, it works for him. But he's going to have to back it up with results, isn't he? Yeah. I mean, if you're going to talk like that, you'd better back it up or, you know, he'll, but you know, it's such an individual game too. I mean, in a lot of ways, you know, the old school guys would tell you, hey, it doesn't matter how many friends you have out there. What matters is your results and shooting good score. So, you know, I'm glad he's out there with this great attitude. And, you know, he's even said he wants to make a mark in the game. He wants to be a great player. And he wants to be able to, you know, do it his way. And, you know, the whole psychology of the way he's going at this is just, it's different and it's great. And, you know, usually the best players have something a little different about him. And he's definitely a little different. Yeah, I like it. I mean, I think the game needs some personality, some flavor, some texture because, man, the sidewalks are littered with campness prospects through the years, aren't they? Oh, no doubt about it. I mean, you know, we talk about it all the time, all the time among announcers out there doing golf every year. And the list of first team All-America players over the course of the last 10 or 15 years that never even got on the PGA Tour as a long list. I mean, it's really tough, first of all, to get out there. And just because you're a great player in college does not mean you're going to translate and become this great player out there on the PGA Tour. And we see it all the time. Russell Knox is coming up on the show today as well. He seems to have found himself. It took a few years, but he seems to have found the belief that now companies are a pretty solid game. He won over in Shanghai World Golf Championship, came back to the States and almost won the very next week in Mexico, Kurt, and had a run at the title at Harbor Town. He's taken to another level this year, hasn't he? He has one of those games, though, that's going to work kind of week in and week out. He's got a tremendous golf swing. It's just so technically sound. He has good rhythm in it, too. And I don't think he's very, he's not technical, which, you know what I mean, he just, he has this gift of this great swing. He drives it really straight and hits a lot of greens and regulation, doesn't usually make a lot of mistakes. And, you know, we did an interview with him after one of his rounds at, at Harbor Town this last week. And he's, you can tell the confidence is going sky high with him right now, too, because, you know, they talked about the win over in China, and he said, you know, he did it, it's time to win again, sort of thing. You know, I don't remember exactly the quote, but, but, you know, he was talking like, I'm ready to do it again. I'm ready to win. And so when they start talking, your players start talking like that, you know that they totally believe in their game and the ability to win. And that's kind of the guy we're starting to see. He hits it great. And he just has a really easy going way about him, too, where I think when he does go through a, a bad patch, maybe misses a couple cuts, I just get a sense that it's not going to beat him up. I think he'll let it just slide right off his back and move on down the road. And he knows that he has a game for it to come back soon. Like a quarterback that's just thrown three interceptions or shooting guard that's just gone, you know, two for 15. You got to have a short memory this game, right? Boy, you do. I'll tell you, if you start letting those missed cuts, you know, beat you down. It's, they're tough to swallow. It's at least when you make the cut, you feel like, all right, maybe I'll find something on the weekend. Maybe I'll work on something with my swing or my putting and then find it and be ready for the next week. But when you're missing cuts, it's really tough. And it's easy to get down on yourself. It's, when that self-talk that these players have with themselves, when it starts going negative and oh my gosh, every bounce, I get the bad one. Instead of kicking the left away from the bunker, it kicked right underneath the lip. And you start here and I've been there. All players have been there that are out on tour. You know, you start complaining about this and complaining about that. The bad bounces and start talking negatively about yourself. Then you know that these guys are going down the wrong road. I can't imagine what's rattling around in Mike Weir's head these days. His last 24 starts have resulted in either a WD or a missed cut. He played 18 holes at Harbor Town Shot 78 and then withdrew. A couple guys came after him on Twitter and they said, you know, that's not cool. And this is a tough one, I think, Kurt. Because if you're Mike Weir, you have to believe deep down that any little spark could get this thing turned around. But you also have to be realistic at some point, I guess, and recognize that maybe there's more deserving players for a spot in the field. What do you think? Yeah, well, I think that's a tough one. I mean, it's uh, he's an RBC guy, right? So the RBC heritage people gave him, you know, the exemption to get in the field. You know, he's there because of them. And so I think, you know, I don't know, it's really hard, John, because he is a great champion in the past right now. Obviously, he's struggling. He doesn't have the game to compete out there. He was never long off the tee and this game has become in more of a, you know, a power game out there. He doesn't have length. He's not hitting at that straight. You know, it's almost like, you know, you want him to go, you know, maybe the rare appearance and compete, but then take whatever it is he learned from that week and go home for a while and keep working on it and keep playing a lot of golf at home and find a way to, you know, play at the level he needs to play out to compete on the PGA Tour because I can't imagine that he's having any fun doing that out there. There's no way with the history that he has and all the tournaments that he won in the past, there's no way he's having any fun out there. So the tough, tough deal, you know, but on the flip side of that is if you don't compete, then you really don't find out where you're at and you don't build confidence. It's tough to build confidence just going, you know, around your home track and shooting 69. That's just not going to get it done. You have to go compete against those guys to see where you're at. Yeah, that's true. And if I put myself in his position and a tournament sponsor gives me a spot in the field, I would find it very difficult to turn down. I remember a Scotford Plank really was fighting at a stage in his career where he was last in driving distance and accuracy at one point and that's a career ender and yet he turned it around, rediscovered his game and has been a formidable competitor on the PGA Tour Champion circuit. So I guess that's what I mean about where in all these guys, especially a proud former master's champion, a guy that's won eight, nine times on the PGA Tour, he has to think he can get this thing turned around. You have to build this. Well, in the Plank's case, that was all injury related in my opinion. I mean, you can say, hey, you know, he should have been able to get over the injuries, but when you, he was, he kept you have an elbow problem, both elbows and when you're injured, it's tough enough. But when you're injured and then you can't swing the club properly, plus you're fighting these injuries. You can't practice like you need to practice to find your game. These injuries usually are the root of a lot of problems for these guys when they lose their confidence or they, they can't compete out there. And I just, you know, in Mike Weir's case, he seems to be healthy, but you know, he doesn't, he's not going to tell you that he's hurting or this or that. I mean, you know, those guys just don't do that. But if he's healthy, then, then he's got, you know, an uphill climb here because he's not playing well at all. If he's still dinged up and he's still having trouble with injuries, then then he definitely needs to go home and get, you know, all he needs to heal up so that he can practice and work at it like he needs to. The Vijay Singh said he's not going to compete in the Olympics and represent the Tani Island nation of Fiji. I think as we get closer to the Olympics, these players might begin to get a little more fired up. They don't necessarily seem so much right now, Kurt, but, you know, I feel strongly that these guys should feel really compelled to play and represent their flags. They're not going to get paid for the week. I get it. But this is different. This is really unique, don't you think? I've talked to a number of the top players in the game, including Justin Rose, last fall. I talked to Jordan Speed. Those are just two examples of players that I've talked to about this. And I can tell you that especially Rose and Speed and then a number of other players, but they're fired up a lot. And they are really looking forward to it. And like Jordan Speed said, he said, you know, someday when I'm, you know, in my fifties and I've got the people there at my house and I'm showing them my trophy case, he said, they're, you know, if I can show the gold medal that I won from the Olympics, he said, I'm, you know, that would be one of my, you know, biggest wins of my career, biggest treasures of my career. And he said, I'll definitely have that gold medal hanging up there if I'm able to do it. So most of the guys that I'm talking to John are really fired up about it. And there's going to be, there's going to be a few guys that just say, eh, I'm not going, you know, I mean, Adam Scott, I mean, it's going to be one of those guys. He just said, it's not important to me. And that's fine. You know, there's, it's just move on. And there are, I think there are plenty of top players that believe it's important and it's going to be great to go down there and see it for the first time. Well, I'm glad to hear that because somebody's going to have a hunt for a gold medal. That's a really cool thing, isn't it? Absolutely. And, you know, it could be a guy that most, you know, golf fans in the US and maybe even in Europe aren't too familiar with, you know, it could be. Some guy catches fire and he's from, you know, somewhere that we're just not aware of this guy and he has a chance to win the gold medal. But, you know, that could also boost golf worldwide. So yeah, it's going to be really interesting. I think, you know, once every four years and I think most of these top players are fired up about it. Where are you off to next? Well, I'm home for a good stretch here. Then I am headed, oh, here am I headed here. You don't even know. He headed to the Byron Nelson. So that'll be Byron Nelson will be my next one. And then I'm doing the two weeks after the Byron Nelson. I'm doing the NCAA championships, both the women and the men up in Oregon at Eugene Country Club. So golf channel and have that. So, yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. I've done it the last couple of years and it's great to see these these soon-to-be stars like we saw Bryson DeChambeau down in Florida last year at the NCAA. So, yeah, it's fun. I will be in Dallas. I'll look for you then. Thanks Kurt. I enjoy the conversation, man. Thanks a lot, John. Take care. That was a good chat with Kurt Byron. For my money, one of the most astute analysts in the biz. Easy to listen to, doesn't preach at you, says insightful things in a very relatable way and says them succinctly. I've always loved his work. I could say the same of our next guest, whose work inside the ropes on the PGA Tour this year has been pretty special. My next guest is in the midst of a fantastic season on the PGA Tour. Already a winner and it was a big one. It was a World Golf Championships event. He's got a couple of second place finishes as well, including a share of second place at the RBC Heritage yesterday. As a matter of fact, as we record this and we welcome Russell Knox to the program, what a great golf course in Hilton Head. What a great event, Russell. Where does it sort of fall on your list of favorites? First of all, yeah, thanks for having me. It's my favorite. It's at the top of the list. That was my third goal at Harbor County there and I've had a tied for ninths and I believe another top 20. It's been a pretty good venue for me. It certainly is nice to play well at a course you truly love. It's in a nice spot of a schedule coming off the Masters, isn't it? Yeah, no, I agree. Hilton Head Island is just a very relaxing place to be. It's a great week. We stay very close to the course and we walk everywhere and walk to the restaurants and the club pierces right there. It's a very easy week for our family. It's a popular stop for families, for wives and kids. Andrea was with the I assume? Yes, yes. She was there and my parents came up on Sunday and Andrea's sister's family came up with the kids and they loved going bike riding and then they got to come and watch me play on the weekend, which was great. Now everybody had a great time. You've had a ton. Of family support the last couple of weeks, the entire Knox clan was there in Augusta for your first Masters. What was the overall experience like for you first of all? Yeah, I mean it was it was amazing. I mean I guess the Nationals is a super special place to engulf and I mean it lived up to to all the hype that I had for it. I mean it was it was an amazing week that I'll never forget. I didn't play well obviously but I mean not the lie. I did play well. I just didn't score well at times and made a mess of a couple holes but I mean overall it was an experience I'll never forget and then I can't wait to do again next year. You hit it beautifully actually. I looked and saw that you were tied for fourth and green sit through the first two days. So you had a couple blow-up holes as you mentioned but how about adjusting to the speed of the greens? What was that like that week? Yeah I mean the greens there are are incredible. I mean they're they're so difficult. It's hard to put into words and I mean just the the speed of them with the combination of the slopes makes it. I mean if you're not in the right position of the green and two pying is extremely difficult and and I I had my fair share of three pots over over three days so I need to I need to definitely take some notes for for my next trip to see if I can improve them or if your father Mike was there your mom Val as well. It must have been a thrill for them. What was the week like for them? Yeah everyone had a great time so yeah we ran into a beautiful house up there and I had yeah my parents and friends and family there my my uncle flew over from the San Francisco so it was a it was a crazy week and one which I think we'll all never forget. Yeah it was a surprise when your uncle popped in right your mom and dad didn't know? Yeah no we kept that kind of secret and they don't get to see each other all the often so it was nice to surprise them on things on Wednesday or Thursday Wednesday we surprised them though my uncle showed up so yeah it was fun. You said the part three contest was maybe the coolest thing you've ever done why? I've been wanting to to play that part three course for for a long time. I don't know I just think that I mean growing up I think junior golf part three courses is a great way to go it's I mean there's so much talk about pace of play and how long golf takes and I mean you can nip around a part three course in no time and I mean it's super fun and obviously the all part three courses are as amazing as the one at Augusta National but I mean it was a it was an unbelievable hour and a half or two hours there was I played with David Link Morrison, Robert Strab and I had my my coach's son Caddy for me and I mean it was it was just a terrific day and then I I would love to in one day own a own my own part three course it's kind of similar to that I really think it's it's such a great fun to go out there and play these kind of shorter holes. Yeah it's awesome and what a blueprint you have and what a way to introduce people to the game without it having to be cost prohibitive and without it having to take five hours you know. Oh absolutely. I mean it's just so fun too. I mean and it was also great practice. I mean the whole ferry from I think 72 yards to 151 yards and I mean that's where that's where we have closed kind of need to excel to make our money so it was a great little practice. You learn how to hit all these different shots. I wish I would have played it a few more times. And your boy Langworth hooped one in there for a one and brought the house down. How about that? Yeah that was amazing. So I was I was kind of hoping that one of us would make a make a one and David did it there on number number seven and it was it was pretty amazing how big the cheers were when when somebody made the one. So it was a it was a really cool movement. You described playing with Sandy Lyle one of your heroes as an honor. I'm sure it was how much of an influence was he on on your game when you were a young boy and becoming serious about making this a profession. Yeah I mean probably not as much as you think. I mean he and Sandy won the the monsters when I was two I think two or three years old. So it was I mean I kind of grew up idolizing Tiger Woods as kind of era. But once I got into golf more and started to realize that there's a chance I could maybe be a professional of course. Sandy popped up as being a I mean a Scottish masters champion. So it was it was very cool to to get to spend the day with them and I mean he shared some great tips and which which helped me around the course a little bit. I wish you would have taught me how to pop a little better. But we had an excellent day together and hopefully we'll make a tradition. Yeah well that's so true and and if you're fortunate enough to sort of soak in the wisdom from a former masters champion and in this case a countryman that's critical from from year to year and I'm sure you're going to get more opportunities to play to Augusta. These are little things you can these secrets you can kind of tuck into your memory bank I guess. Yeah absolutely. I mean there was a handful of things that Sandy told me that I wouldn't have picked up on for sure. So I mean it's definitely a course of local knowledge health and I mean he's played so many tournaments there that I mean he says really the only way to get to know the course is to play in a tournament and because the tournament conditions of the course can vary so much to practice for instance. So I mean he has so much experience there that I mean he's he's done everything really well and there's done a lot of things not well so he knows all the good and bad parts of the course so I mean that's truly invaluable information. You mentioned Neil Fleming the son of Mike Fleming your your coach for eight years your mentor. How often do you think about him and could you hear him sort of whispering in your ear during your week at Augusta? Yeah I mean I think about him all the time man I mean we used to talk after every round I played so that's that's something which I've missed a lot not being able to kind of vent after a terrible day or a great day so yeah I missed that part and yeah I mean it was great to spend the day with son Neil I mean we had an amazing time and his my coach's wife Kintha was there walking around too so so that was that was really special and yeah I mean I think he was definitely looking down on us and had a little smile probably. How do you shake off a lousy day because even players like yourself at the top level most weeks you're going to have a day where everything is just off a little bit. How do you put that in the rear view mirror and keep it from not spilling into the next day's work? Well I'm terrible at it and my wife will tell you that I mean I I take I take bad days and bad finishes to round really really hard to tough on myself and I mean even even even this week in Hilton Head I the first day I finished Bogey Bogey Bogey to shoot one over and I was I was disgusted with myself and I mean it takes me a couple hours to kind of get over it and I guess that's a part of what makes me so competitive and I mean I was able to come out the next day and shoot shoot the round of the week so so that was that was really nice nice to do but I mean it's a huge challenge and and every single player on tour have to go through accepting their bod shots their bod rounds and some of us do it much better than others I tell you that. Do you work with a sports psychologist and if so what do you guys sort of concentrate on? Yeah I've worked with two girls two women from Scottsdale, Lynn and Pia from Vision 54 and I've worked with them since 2010 maybe and yeah I mean we work we work a lot on attitude and and body language and and self-talk stuff like that and to really kind of prepare your your body and and and kind of mind it's getting the best stay of mind to to play your best golf so it's said it's all great stuff and they've really helped me a lot. It's fascinating how many layers there are in becoming a truly successful athlete and truly successful golfer. These things attitude body language that you mentioned Russell probably things that didn't even occur to you as a as a young kid first embarking on your pro career did they? No I mean I I thought it was kind of silly that people had people tell them to be positive and stuff but it's it's amazing how the little things make a huge difference and I mean I always like to kind of look when when Rory Mackerel is playing his best I mean his body language is so positive so strong and he marches down the fairway and it looks like he's gonna hit it 350 and hold every button. I mean it's it's a it's you kind of got to trick your mind into think you're playing better than you are and then that sometimes can spark a nice run of form and then I mean body language is is so important and then at the same time it's very difficult to do when you're struggling to kind of walk with your head up and march along but the top players in the world they do it much better than the the guys that are struggling. So you do pick things up from other players you guys and and notice things that work for other players that maybe you can incorporate into your own approach. Oh absolutely yeah I mean I'm always trying to learn and if I see a player do something that that is better than than than I do it I'm constantly trying to kind of pick their brain or or observe and see if I can translate that to my game and help me improve so yeah absolutely always try to learn. Russell Knox is our guest third in the FedEx Cup points race 29th in the World Golf rankings winner of the HSBC champions in Shanghai last fall a World Golf championships event. I had to laugh I saw the interview you did with Damon Hack I think it was after Thursday's round maybe Fridays at Harbortown and he said Russell what's the difference between being a tour member and a tour winner and you said being a tour winner is way better and I thought that was such an obvious statement but so funny and how things have changed and how many doors and opportunities have opened up when you do win on the tour. Yeah I mean it's I mean obviously we're we're all still the same same person we were before you won but I mean it's nice to get into these these big tournaments again to play in the monsters and and the other World Golf championship events down in Dural and the match play and and getting to play in US opens and one or so I mean winning gets you into these elite fields where the competition is so high and I mean that's what's all about really getting to play against the best and and see if you can see if you can beat them and so that's that's definitely the the best part of it and yeah I mean it's just fun to fun to compete. You said something interesting after that victory you always knew that your first win would be a big one and it was a World Golf championship why did you believe that why were you convinced about it just always felt like growing up playing any sport or I mean playing golf throughout all the levels I always seem to play my best in the kind of bigger stages and I don't know if I just kind of go up for it more I was more into it was more focused I just always believed though I don't know why but deep down that I was going to be everyone one day and and it just turned out I had to fly all the way to China to do it but I would fly I would fly to the moon to do it again. It's been a circuitous route Scotland born San Diego Rays lives in the Jacksonville area so this players championship in a few weeks is sort of your your hometown event now a lot of times players take a few years to sort of figure out the puzzle that Pete Dye has constructed there but you've been around the top 20 your first two showings there and I have a suspicion you could be a factor here you're feeling good with the players championship on the horizon on that layout yeah I love that tournament I mean it's I mean it's very similar kind of course to to harbor town if you can get your ball and play off the tee it makes the course a lot easier so and most of the time that that's my strength is driving in the fairway so if if I can do that and the week of the players and I should have a chance so as long as I can as long as I can keep a good attitude and keep a good body language right I could be all right especially on that track what a psychological test it is huh oh I mean yeah it beats you out from the from the get-go I mean it's it's an extremely difficult course and I think what makes it super tough is the par fives are difficult and I mean a lot of them you can reach in two or get close to the green in two but if you miss the green you're punished heavily so and if it's a great tournament if you can if you're really good with your your approach up on the par five you could you can score make birdies because there's so many tough tough parts long par fours and par threes that if you can take care of the par fives I think it's uh you're gonna finish high there rue it's been uh really fun watching you develop this year and take your game to uh to a world-class level uh congratulations on the strong season enjoy some time off hope you keep it going and best of luck for the rest of the season there thank you very much I think I might have just found my fantasy golf pick for the players championship I may have literally stumbled upon that don't sleep on rue knocks let me tell you and you guys by the way remind me of that in the weeks ahead don't let me forget to pick that man don't let me change my mind hit me on Twitter @jswannpj2 in fact go ahead and throw some feedback my way on the podcast I want it I'm looking for it want to know what you guys think what you guys want I want to thank my guests as well Russell Knox and Kurt Byron remember you can listen to and download talk of the tour by visiting pga tour.com/podcasts you can also access to show and our other audio content via iTunes tune in and Stitcher just head to pga tour.com/podcasts and subscribe today and you can look for the next talk of the tour pod scheduled for this Wednesday April 20th I'm John Swanson thanks for listening today and being part of the show hope you dug it and remember it ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble it's what you know for sure that just ain't so think about it people I'll talk to you on Wednesday (dramatic music)