All Pleasure No Guilt: A TV Recap Podcast
90 Day Fiance - Before the 90 Days - S7e3 - 'Sound and the Fury'
Rayne's temper flares at the market; Tigerlily and Adnan officially marry; Veah plans to bring her ex to meet her new boyfriend; Ingrid is overwhelmed by Brian's physical needs; Loren puts a ticking clock on his relationship.
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- Broadcast on:
- 20 Sep 2024
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(upbeat music) - Hello folks, welcome to the first ever episode of your brand new seventh, eighth or ninth favorite TV recap podcast. My name is Michelle. - And I'm Jack. - And we are all pleasure. - No guilt. - That's right. We are bringing fantastic recaps to you, starting with some of your old reality TV favorites. What are we covering now, Jack? - Right now, we're knee deep and E90, 90 day fiance before the 90 days, season seven. - That's right. We're also going to be covering Love is Blind, Washington DC, my hometown. Very exciting. - Ooh, our main focus is digging into those beautiful, yet unloved, slightly bizarre and underrated. Sometimes criminally so, box sets that are lying dusty back in your discovery plus or HBO Max subscription. - Are you talking about the dormant completed series that have no pod component? - That's right. We're talking forbidden love. We're talking love off the grid. We're talking. - You got your unexpecteds out there. - Yep, unexpected, addicted to being married. I think that's what it's called. - Maybe even, you never know, maybe some seeking brother husband will find its way in there. - Or seeking sister wife. - Hey, that's even bigger. - So if you are the type of person who can't do event television, and you can't be in front of your TV week after week, and you're watching all the podcasts in your queue, just lining up week after week feeling behind, we completely understand you, and we are here for you when you're ready to watch these shows. - Like when you need a pod for one of these shows, we're here. And just to put a little point on this, we're obviously covering this live season of B90, but we're not gonna do a traditional beat-for-be recap of everything. - No, we more look into the emotional flash points, and because of our unique credentials, Jack and I are able to ruin them for you. (laughing) So for those of you who are brand new, who may have heard us on reality gays, actually that episode isn't out yet, but you will be hearing us on reality gays. - Yes, you will. - However you've come to us, you are so welcome here. We love you. My name is Michelle. I am a failed actress. I was born in Washington, DC, raised in a suburb of Maryland, and I lived in England for 15 years during which I went to film school. I worked in PR and media. I've worked with most of the broadsheet newspapers that you can think of in the UK, and some of them in the US. So I have had my ear to the ground for many years in politics and entertainment. The more you work in either, the more you see the similarities in both. I've done bits and pieces of TV and film, nothing you will have ever heard about. I also am coming to you from the podcast, Blady de Fiance, which is my first foray into podcasting. Jack, tell us about you. - Ooh, about me. Now I don't love talking about myself, but I do have to introduce myself to everybody here. So I'm Jack, originally from New York City, got my entertainment feet wet, growing up in New York, working at some New York newspapers, New York news stations, getting into independent film and doing that kind of work, which then continued to move forward and found myself in some very cool places. I worked on another Howard Stern show for a few years and the Artie Lang show, and that afforded me the ability to start a voiceover career, which went really well until, you know, voiceovers, one of those things, where one minute they love your voice and the next minute come back next year. So, you know, I will say I'm not going to browbeat myself and call myself a failed anything, but I will say-- - That's my job. - Michelle's job. I'm about optimism over here. That's not always my forte, but I try to make it my forte. And, you know, I'm just excited to be on the air in your ears and getting to talk about stuff that I find interesting and fun and not about beer that I don't drink that I'm telling you to drink. (laughing) And oh, I'm leaving out like the... Maybe I think I've blocked this out 'cause this is about when I got burned out of working in entertainment, but most recently I have worked in reality TV on America's Got Talent, The Voice, and a few other, few other programs of that ilk. So, you know, as Michelle said, I think we have a... Each of us brings something to the table from our background and, you know, we're here to have fun and an important thing. We've podcasted together before and we always worry about people's feelings 'cause we're very thoughtful, nice people. However, you know, sometimes, overly thinking about people's feelings or potential feelings can take away from a show. So, I do just wanna throw out there that we're trying to have some more fun on this show than we have before. So, this is, you know, what we're here for the thematic relationship discussions, but we're also here to, you know, take the piss out of some people and some of these people who... Well, I won't speak for Michelle on this. I will say, if someone puts themselves on display on a reality show and wants cameras following them around, that is licensed for someone with a microphone to discuss their lives. - That's right. And I'm going to say that I wish I had put on Deodorant today. - We'll see now I'm far enough away from you that this is not interfering with my ability to record. Is it interfering with your ability to record, Michelle? - I mean, I'm feeling a little sweaty now that the lights are on, now that you mentioned it. Maybe we'll take a little break at some point and I can put some Deodorant on. Another thing that I'd like to mention for those of you, again, who are joining us for the first time, and maybe those of you who have hopped over from the 90-day, or sorry, Blady Day fiance feed is that I am a neurodivergent individual. I was late diagnosed at 37 years old if you can believe that with autism and ADHD. It's a widely under diagnosed condition in women of my generation. I was misdiagnosed as bipolar at the age of 16. So sometimes those things are going to come up. And sometimes when, for example, we have neurodivergent cast members of a show, I'm able to speak to that with some experience. So that's where I am coming from. - I need to put in my little two cents about where I'm coming from too, 'cause otherwise I just sound like some voiceover guy. - Just some white guy, yeah. - Just some straight white guy from New York. Been in LA for 10 years, and I'm an anxiety warrior, and I'm pretty sure in the time Michelle and I have been working together, it's become apparent to Michelle that they appear to exhibit signs of ADHD. So that can be a fun journey, we all go on together. But right now until I have a formal diagnosis, I'm here as your anxiety buddy who has been through the ringer, had panic attacks, and been working on it for 30 years. So this is as much as we wanna be open, and it's all in good fun, I guess is what I'm trying to say is we like to joke around because life is too serious and we all have problems. - Yes, and we recognized that even as we were podcasting together, we were getting too much into the problems and the analysis and the over analysis and the hand-ringing and all of this stuff. Because we really take these shows seriously and not everyone does. So look, we're here for you in those moments, we're here for you in the moments that call for a bit more levity and we're committed to making the best program possible as consistently as we possibly can. So for those of you who are on the Blady Day Fiance Patreon for the rest of the month, you will be receiving your bonus content, which at the moment is recapping seasons one and two of Love Off the Grid. And then we are gonna be moving over to a completely new Patreon. - Very excited about this. - But yes, I know that it's admin-wise, it's a little bit annoying, but we hope you'll take that leap with us and I think that's it for announcements. Are you ready to recap the show? - I am because the beautiful thing, Michelle, is that if we forgot to say anything, we can say it next time. - Or we can say it at the end of the show. - We could say it in the middle. - Follow us on Instagram @APNGPodcast. - Again, that's APNG podcast on Instagram. - We are super, super excited to hear from you and we really do want you to come at us with your thoughts, your theories, your feedback, your relationships to cast members or whatever you've got to bring, we're here for it, apart from racism or xenophobia or any hate, truth of any kind. - For that though, I will say, if you ever wanna say anything and you're not a social media type person, but you'd like to send myself or Michelle a message individually, if you join the Facebook group, you don't have to post things in there, you can use that as a conduit to write a personal message to myself or Michelle, and we will read that message and respond accordingly. - And I read every email I get, I'll put our emails, I'm not always able to respond right away, but I do read them, they do mean the world to me. So if you're not a social media person, we have a new email now, which is A-P-N-G, is it A-P-N-G pod? - Again, this will be in the show notes, we will put some links in there. - Yeah, where is it? Can you, no, I need to look at that. - I can pull it up. Who's gonna vamp? See, now this is a fun thing on an air show. Who's gonna do the vamp-ing thing? - A-P-N-G pod at gmail.com. That's A-P-N-G pod at gmail.com. All right, we good? - We good, sister. - Now, we have had the honor and the privilege of guest hosting, guest co-hosting. - Yes. - Reality gaze with Jake Anthony. That is coming out later than this episode, but we are gonna do our best not to reveal any spoilers as we recap this episode. So we're only sticking to a couple of flash points. - Today, we're gonna get in deep. We're kinda deep, a little deep, knee deep, into B-90, 90-day fiance before the 90 days, season seven, episode three, Sound and the Fury. - I think it's just Sound and Fury, as in Sound and Fury signifying nothing. - Hey, that would make a lot of sense, but you talk to the people who make up these titles. - Well, now it's confusing, 'cause I thought we were doing Dickens' titles. - That's what it seemed like. - That's what the first two were. - And this is, so the Faulkner, I mean. - Oh, everybody, here she goes. - The Faulkner novel is the Sound and the Fury. So it's not referring to that, although I think many of the episodes of this show can be considered Faulknerian in theme and content. Let's start with Faith and Lauren. - So what did I say Lauren looked like? - The host of the Hell version of Supermarket Sweep. (laughing) - With cauliflower nose, this guy. I don't know, he also looks, if anyone's ever watched the show Banshee on HBO, actually was on Cinemax, but on HBO show it's on Max, really cool show, but this guy looks like the evil Amish organized crime lord from that show. - He is a very desperate man. I don't think anyone in the audience has really warmed to Lauren. - Can you warm to Lauren from the way from what we're seeing? This guy is all over the place and none of it's in a good place. - No, it isn't. Don't pull over anyone. There's like the loudest police sirens in the world happening right now. - I'm sure you all can't hear it, but we're in the last thing. - Well, I can hear it and. - Okay, now I'm here. - I don't like it. (laughing) Okay, look. So this man has rolled up with a timeframe and a goal. The goal he has I assume is to have recreational sex with every trans woman in Manila. - Well, maybe telling one specific trans woman in Manila that he wants to be in a monogamous relationship. - Yeah, I'm gonna come out and say this now. This guy is a chaser. He's a fetishist. You can have a fetish and that's fine, but he depersonalizes sex. - Now we talked about this 'cause I was curious because I had said to you on one of the earlier episodes when he talked about that from a very early age from like I think he said, seven years old was the first time he saw a body type that had breasts and a penis. And that's always been his ideal. And I thought like, oh, okay, that's like, anybody who gets to know their sexuality, it can happen at that age. But you kind of came back at me with that with that this wasn't him discovering his sexuality in such a way as he put it because you were saying, well, what did you tell me? - No, we talked about this I believe in a previous episode. - Yeah, I think we did, but I need your thoughts again, Michelle. - Okay, well, not sure everyone does, Jack, but look, sexuality is about who you love, not who you have sex with. I think that I hope that eventually sexuality is not going to be even an identifier in our society. It's just I'm in a relationship with this person or I'm in a relationship with that person, right? - One day, Michelle, one day. - And I'll buy the world a coke and sing a song and all of that. - Will you buy the world a coke and a smile? - Yeah, smiles are going to be a lot more expensive than buying a coke, though. - Truth. - Unless you're at a movie theater. - Then you can smile and overpay for a coke. - Yes, exactly. Yeah, I think identifying a sexual attraction is very different to your sexuality. I can, for example, I'm famously heterosexual, but I can admit when another woman is attractive and I can identify attractive things about another woman, but it doesn't mean I want to be in a relationship with that woman or indeed pursue her sexually. Everything about Lauren's past and present just points to bad intentions for me and the fact that he's not even willing to have a conversation, an honest and forthright conversation about his needs and what he's looking for out of this specific relationship with this person who has not had a romantic relationship before, I just think all of this is trouble. - Can you see, though, but do you take this as almost like a, what's the word? He feels like, and maybe, I don't know, maybe he doesn't look innocent. He feels like a wolf in sheep's clothing type of thing. Like maybe he almost feels more dangerous to a degree than he's letting himself, or then he's coming off. - I'll put it to you this way, Jack. I think for him, being unhoused is a choice. (Jack laughs) - You're talking about when he announces that he, you know, couch serves. - Yes. - Okay. - I think there's a reason for that. I think it's because what money he does earn, he spends on escorts. And-- - Okay. Now, just tell me, is it, is it, what is he giving you that's like, and now I get that the guy seems like he's likely a sex addict of some sort, but what is it that you think he's going to escorts and not, you know, we see he's around plenty of options? - Because he's a fetishist. - Okay. - And I think he's probably already had sex with or entered into relationships with every trans woman in the Vegas area. I think the fact that he is exclusively interested in a vulnerable population is disturbing. - Oh, because you've told me, I don't know if you said this on the air, but your assertion here is that you think faith was probably not the only person he was speaking to over there. - Definitely not. Definitely not. Is that just the worldwide sex tourism in his eyes? - Can I just ask you a serious question? Do you really not think that this guy is a creepy chaser? Like, are you picking this apart because you don't see it and it doesn't make sense to you? Or because you want me to explain it to the audience? - A little bit of, it's not the first part, a little bit of the second part, but it's really, I wanted to break it down because I know what you see when you look at him, but I feel like the Subversion Act that he's trying to pull of like, I'm just a nice guy. I feel like that is throwing some people. I don't know if he's coming off as creepy and as predatory as he is, but it became much more stark to me after you shared your thoughts on him. So I was thinking, hey, if there's anyone else out there who's like, I don't know, this guy seems like some sort of okay ex-Mormon guy who is-- - But do you know why he seems okay? - Tell me. - Because he's smiling all the time and he's mirroring other people's language. - Like a sociopath. - Yes. - Okay. - Exactly. When they have this conversation about when are they gonna be intimate? - Yes. - He mirrors back what Faith is saying to him, yes, absolutely, take all the time you need as long as it's within 20 days. - That's the best word. - We don't have a lot of time. Smug, smile, smug, smile, smile. - But tell me this though, what's going on with Faith? That Faith then talks to camera and is sort of like, hey, it's great, you know, like he says, I have all the time that I need. Right, but Faith, he also said like within 20 days. - So you know how, and you did sales before, so you're familiar with the system. What do you do, right? You find the first thing is you establish common ground, right, you establish a rapport, and then you find the pain point, and then you offer your solution, and then you explain, I mean, you could explain this better than I do. - I'm smiling right now because I don't know if I've ever in a moment felt and understood why people hate salesmen so much, except you were just explaining how like, you can sell yourself as a sociopathic, you know, a fetishist, or you can sell automotive chemicals. It's the same shit. - It is. - No, it's just amazing. It's, you're right along. - No, I'm saying it isn't the same thing. - No, no, no, no. - I'm saying the skillset is exactly the same. - Let me be clear, that's what I meant, is as you're breaking down like the like order of ops and how you would do something, it's exactly the same. So it makes me look at him even from a different, now I feel, now I have like an above, above the fray, like linchy and fisheye lens of looking at him and now he looks like a creep. Now, now I see what you're saying. - Did you, now you're a heterosexual male of a certain age and this may have passed you by because you've been in the same relationship for 20 years, but did you read the game by Neil Strauss? - Yes. - Yeah. - So that is a similar set of tactics, but instead of selling yourself, you're convincing the other person of their unworthiness, thereby making them view you as an authority, have a totally unearned respect for you. And that's what he, that's what Lauren is doing to faith here. So faith already has this pain point in her life. And what it says in the game is you have to neg someone, right? - Yes. - This is a fucking disgusting book that came out about 20 years ago. And-- - This is how ugly a guy has got good looking girls back then. - Yes, exactly. Ugly, non-famous, non-rich guys. - There you go, important qualifier. - But it's entirely built around this idea that you get a woman who doesn't feel good about herself to have more respect for you than you deserve, to have any respect for you, to hold your opinion in high regard, to think that you're interesting, mysterious, all of these things. So faith is going through this process where Lauren has identified that faith's pain point is no one is ever gonna love me. The only people who are interested in me are interested in just a base sexual encounter. And I'm never going to live that fairy tale. I'm never gonna have a life partner who means anything. So Lauren's like, that's right. You are never going to find somebody to take care of you because you're broken. - You're never going to find what I have, which is love for you. - Yes, and I have it. - In spades. - Except I'm low-key. - Homeless? (laughing) - So are you saying he's not an individual experiencing homelessness but an odd man choosing homelessness? - He's a hobo, if you will. - Well, he did. - If I'm to use depression era lingo. - Well, you're also, I mean, that is a direct quote. He did say he felt like a hobo walking through the airport. - Yeah, I mean, he is, oh, the Jan Sport is the bindle and stick of the 1930s. What year is the Jan Sport from? And does it have his name embroidered on the outside of it? If you're around my age, you'll get that joke. (laughing) - Anyway, he's a piece of shit. He'll continue to be a piece of shit. I think this is probably the saddest story in the series so far. - What I want to talk about for one second, I know you want to get away from them as fast as possible, but an important thing, which I don't think you went in on. Just now, you were telling me, and another thing that I kind of like didn't fully pick up on until, and not to sound like some moron over here, but it's just, Michelle's a little bit more jaded sometimes than I am when it comes to relationships. So she can pull out these things, these threads a little bit better. You pointed out Lauren's desperation to me. And I didn't really necessarily view it as desperation. I thought I was like, well, the guy has a goal and he's trying to get there, but you said it felt more desperate than just like trying to figure this out. - It's way more desperate than trying to figure it out because he's passed the point, and all sociopaths have this in common. They don't really see other humans. They see targets, or targets or assets, whatever you want to call them. And that's what faith is. There's no, faith doesn't have a voice in, is not a voice in Lauren's head. I'll put it that way. Like you and I-- - Oh, it's so cold. That's so cold. - No, but it's true. Like your beautiful wife, Diana, she's a voice in your head when you're making decisions. - True. - I may be a voice in your head when you're making business decisions. - True. - We're also friends, everybody. - We're also friends. And we are just friends, just to make that clear. - Yes, ma'am. - This explosive chemistry you're listening to is a friendship between-- - Two like-minded individuals. - Two like-minded individuals. Two high-maintenance machines. - Should we give Diana her own episode to talk about how high-maintenance we are? - Yeah, go ahead, pour Diana. All right. Um, what was I saying? Yeah. - We were at the desperation. - And the desperation is about, okay, this is the person I have to convince. This is the person I have to lock down. And I need to get into this hotel room where I don't have to pay rent, right? - Oh, well, yes, we have to speak to that part of it because it looks like Lauren's trying to weasel his way in to a pretty outstanding setup. I mean, you know, all things considered that faith has for herself over in Manila. - That's right. So that's all I'm pointing out. And the sweatiness and the desperation and the sort of, he makes these, he'll say something gross and then have a really smug smile. I tell everybody this, I have worked with many politicians. I have worked with many titans of industry even and confidence is everything, everything. And it doesn't have to be real confidence. - I was just gonna say that. - You can put it on. You can wear it like a fucking Spider-Man costume on Halloween or whatever you want it. - No, you can have it. You can have it like Lycra stretched across your body and it can tear as soon as you get home. - Oh yeah, definitely. - That's fine. But when you go outside in public, that suits on tight. - That's right. Can we please stop talking about these two? - Yes we can. (upbeat music) - I think a couple that made you a lot more comfortable and you were kind of, I don't know, dare I say almost turned on by the whole thing, but let's move over to Brian and Ingrid. - Yeah. (laughing) - I don't think there's a mystery about what the flashpoint was here. It's-- - Can I show you a diagram? Can I quick myself? (laughing) - You can show me a diagram of this flashpoint, which is a nice lady who is smiling one moment, and then her love interest shows her a diagram of a catheter the next and then in the third panel, that smile disappears. - And oh, by the way, I know it sounds like I'm jerking off in here, but I need to get a semi so I can put the catheter in. That's all that's happening. - We have heard from a reliable source that that's not a thing. - Like literally not a thing. - But even putting that aside, this is not the way to go about, and look, yes, Brian is in a wheelchair, Brian is disabled, his life got flipped, turn upside down, I'm sorry, that's what immediately comes into my head, I know it's inappropriate. (laughing) - No guilt. (laughing) - But I'm calling all pleasure, I'm invoking the all pleasure, no guilt part of the clause that is in the charter of this podcast. - Now this is a story all about Brian. - This is not the way to establish trust, and in this moment when he was showing her the diagram and explaining why he was jerking off in the bathroom, this made all of the past failed engagements and broken marriages make perfect sense. This is somebody who believes himself to be fundamentally unlovable, for reasons that become clearer as time goes on, and he is determined to, so on a subconscious level to prove that to himself again and again, and the way that he does that is by inviting women into his life, basically trauma dumping on them very early to test whether they're ready to be with him. - I just wanna say, and you're right, but I wanted to point out, it's not even the trauma dumping when the test begins, because we know that Ingrid's kind of put off by the fact she's fine, she's never been with anyone or been around anybody in a wheelchair. And I also, I just have to back up because this is, I'm starting to get really suspicious of Brian at this point, and the first couple of episodes, Michelle was picking up on some of this and-- - Immediately. - And I was like, no, this guy's so inspirational, he's playing wheelchair rugby, like his daughter, who they wrote in a really weird way, who it sounded like she might not be in his life anymore, is driving him to the airport, but it was this, it was this getting there where I was gonna say that it's, the trauma dump begins when he's-- - He stops and he says, I'd like to take a minute, just sit right there. I'm gonna tell you about the time I got put in this. (laughing) I'm so sorry. - No guilt. (laughing) Now, part of this Michelle's picking up on her feelings from Brian on the following episode. So, you know, that's where a little bit of this comes in, but I just wanna say, he makes himself, so we see him as an Uber driver, where I think a lot of people didn't even realize that he was in a chair or anything, so we just see him driving the car. Now, obviously, he uses hand levers that you have to set up in the car once, I would assume. I think it's one time. I think he can do these things on his own. We see him, he's moving around very well, considering that like 400-hour flight of eight planes and a bus, and the SS Minnow, and yeah, yeah, yeah, and the whole thing. But then he gets there, and it's like the testing begins immediately with the like, can you help me with this? Can you help me with that? And she already, you can see in her face, like, oh my God, was he not? Is he less able? - Well, I'll tell you what she's thinking immediately. - Oh, you got this quick. - Yes, I could see it in her face. She's thinking immediately, okay, who does this for him at home? - Like, so there's gotta be someone else. - There's gotta be someone else, and if I go there, what happens to her? And when he gets tired of her, what happens to me? Or if I can't be this, so she's confused about what her role is gonna be already. Now, if he had explained to her, hey, my nighttime routine is this. - Like a normal person? - Yeah, like, just so that you're aware, I do have to sleep with a catheter in. If you have questions about that, we can talk about it some other time, but I figured since it's our first night together, I don't have to go into the step-by-step. I'm gonna take a shower, I'm gonna put the catheter in, I'm gonna go to sleep. - See, but we already know, I think he was trying to fuck her on the first night. - Yeah, I think he was too. - Which felt like a lot, because like, I don't know, like even an average able-bodied person, if you meet someone you've been talking to for a while, you know, I'm not, look, sometimes passion takes over, but if you have any extenuating circumstances, you might just wanna be close like that first night, or if you're the man coming in, you might just wanna assume, hey, let me assume that this new woman who I'm with for the first time, might just wanna like get to know me a little bit before I'm like- - Not my personal experience. I don't think I have ever invited a man in for coffee, where his assumption is that I just wanna snuggle. - Fair, but I'm just saying in this extenuating circumstance. - I think that they cut out something between the Viagra, popping the Viagra- - I agree. - And putting the catheter in. - 'Cause it was too quick. - It was too quick, right? I think he got rejected or turned down, and then he thought, okay, I'll stick it to her. I'm gonna make her feel like absolute garbage and confront her with- - My catheter. - My catheter with my calf. (laughing) - Did you ever see that? I think they only show these commercials on Fox News like five years ago, but did you ever see those commercials where it was like, it wasn't, maybe it was Wilford Brimley, if anyone can remember who the spokesperson was, but it's a guy saying like, hi, my name is whatever, wearin' a cowboy hat and a denim tuxedo. I don't like pain when a cat. (laughing) - And then he goes on about why you should buy this particular brand of catheter, which to the Fox News audience, I'm sure is- - I gotta find that commercial. - Terribly relevant. Oh, I'll show it to you. - No, we gotta link it. We gotta put these things in the notes. - I think we're gonna find it. - I don't think it's Wilford Brimley. I think you're confusing his diabetes pads with- - Yeah. - But I like the idea, everyone, if you don't find this, you don't click on our show notes, just picture Wilford Brimley. It's more fun. - Oh, and for the record, just 'cause it's my favorite Wilford Brimley fact, Michelle, do you know how old Wilford Brimley was when he was in cocoon? - I believe he was 37 years old. - He was 42. - 42. Younger than you. - Younger than me, and maybe? Maybe? About my age. Let's put it that way. (laughing) - Anything else on these two? - Um, let me just say that I think that Ingrid is not a dummy. I think that she can already kind of smell like what's cooking here a little bit. I think that this sort of like off-the-cuff performance, if we will, from Brian has put Ingrid back on her heels a little bit, and kind of like a, hold on a second, let me see if everything checks out before we run full speed ahead, or wheel full speed ahead. - Before we pull up to the courthouse about seven or a wheel to the Cabrio home, smell you later. - Pardon me, do you know where I can get in a moment? (laughing) - I'm sure he's on one of those too. So this Sunny and Vaya are the next couple and Vaya's, Vaya's-- - Get out on the video, Michelle's doing a really good impression of Vaya's uncomfortableness in her own body. - Yeah, I think it's, you know, I learned at Trauma Camp, which was an outpatient trauma program that I did. - You do make it sound like band camp when you talk about it. - Yeah, it wasn't that much fun, trust me. But we learned that when you're shaking your leg or you're moving side to side, or like, even animals do this too. Chihuahuas do this all the time. When they shake, it's regulating your nervous system. And Vaya has had trauma upon trauma, upon trauma, upon trauma, upon trauma. But a bit later for that because the first person that we meet is Sunny, who is Ben Gladeshi. - Was this the first time that we got the 24 hours earlier on the American instead of on the foreign person? - No, I think that was probably what's your name and the guy from-- - Tiger Lily? - Yeah, I'm Adnan. - Yeah. - Okay, 'cause, but it is, that is, they're kind of going back and forth, which is fine by me. But, so we'll get into Sunny first. Sunny, who lives in Durban, South Africa. He's Ben Gladeshi, and he is Muslim. - He is in possession of the most outrageous unibrow ever to-- - It actually was so outrageous that I did ask you, Michelle, while we were watching it, if, and I was kind of being serious. I was just asking you, is it like a respect thing? Like, the stronger the unibrow, the stronger the respect? - I can't say, Jack, all I can say is-- - If you know about this-- - You know, Vail was like, "Well, his eyes are really nice, and they're so beautiful." And I'm like, "Eyes?" What? I literally can't see anything but the unibrow when I look at it. - It's like a caterpillar, just right across the face. - It's a caterpillar, it's the very hungry caterpillar that's talking, and he's getting the ingredients for the mutton curry. - I forgot about that. - I personally don't eat sheep or any of their relatives. - Listen, I gotta cut it in one second here on mutton. - Please. - Okay, two mutton stories. I've never eaten mutton. I am Jewish and Sicilian, and more Jewish than Sicilian, and I don't like fatty meat. And I have come into contact with mutton twice. Once was on a cruise with extended family, and a family member, not a blood family member, but a really great guy. We were on the beach in Ocho Rios, Jamaica, and he went to the, you know, it's where you might get shaved ice and sort of, you know, tropical drink. - Something refreshing. - Refreshing. What my buddy here thought was, my family member thought was a refreshing treat on the Ocho Rios beach was carried mutton. - Michelle just got sick, and my aunt didn't look good. And my other experience is, there's an entire Seinfeld episode in which Jerry's at a dinner party in there, a non-Jewish dinner party, and they're serving mutton, and it's so fatty and gross, he keeps putting it in a napkin, and it leads to all things. So that's my mutton experience. Have you ever eaten mutton or seen mutton? - Yes, I have seen it. No, I take great pains to avoid it. I, however, am someone for whom telling dinner hosts my dietary requirements is an absolute nightmare, and I tend to just eat whatever's in front. I'm gluten intolerant, I don't eat gluten now, but I'm not allergic to it, it's not going to kill me. No, I'm not. And I don't eat pork or shellfish for religious reasons, cultural reasons, but if there's pork or shellfish in front of me, and I'm at, because I grew up traveling with my dad, who ran an international charity, and we would go to these villages and have big dinners, and the biggest insult you can give is to not eat the food that's been prepared to you by people who have the clothes on their back and not much else. So that was deeply ingrained in me from an early age, not to be what you and your wife call a baby fish. I eat what's in front of me, so I've had things like lamb, even though I really don't like it. But even if you don't love eating lamb, would you say lamb is more appetizing? Yes, I would never. Well, I don't think either of them are appetizing, and I hate it, but yeah, I've had mutton in front of me. I've had haggis in front of me. My first mother-in-law was Scottish, so... Haggis every Friday. Haggis, yeah, fair amount of haggis. I'll put it that way, and she loved her fatty meats, and that, as someone who's texturally sensitive, gristle, fat, any of that chewiness around a protein I can't, I really can't. I can't do foie gras, I can't do any of that stuff. You're reminding me of a meal that I had, and I were going a little long here, so I can do this at different time, but do you want to hear about the meal I ate in Belarus once? Yes. Okay, this is now a little different than Michelle's story, just now, although... So, in my sales days, I worked in international sales, and I was the regional person for the Caribbean and Eastern Europe, based out of Florida. Lucky you. Can't complain about those two locations. And I've been to a lot of the... going to the Caribbean as a businessman, you're not hanging out at resorts, you're going into the cities and the capital cities, which I appreciate and I always preferred, because I wasn't going to hang on the beach, I was getting to know people. Flipside of that is I went to Belarus, which was super fun, because it's where my family was from, once upon a time. And that one was a little different to what you were saying, because I was with literally about 15 years ago, maybe a little less. I was with the richest man in Belarus, and we went out to dinner, and they're taking us to this like, lodge room thing that feels like a dream in my head. It looks like the black lodge or something like that. But it was in outside of Minsk, and they told us like, "Hey, we're giving you this special, the most, you know, what do you call it?" It's a special in a restaurant called the... Like the chef's special. Yeah, like the chef's special. I forgot what word they use, but it was the chef's special, and it was like, "This is our top dish." So, and it's like, "Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much." So, you know, menus in Russian. It was a sheep's head, wasn't it? No. No. So, they explained to me, you know, it's very freezing here in Minsk. I will do accents in the future. I'm not doing accents today, but I can do a good Russian accent. But they say, "Listen, it's, you know, it's freezing here in the winter." So, a big thing that we do is, you know, we go hunting in the dead of winter, and if you hunt an animal and kill it while it's sub-zero, temperatures, and then you bring it in and you clean it in the sub-zero temperature, and then you put it directly into a freezer, you know, there's no temperature issue, right? So, they say, "You know, I've ever eaten bare." And I'm like, "Nope." I'm like, "You ever eaten caribou?" No. "Dear?" No. Fish. Yes. If I have eaten fish. So, what's interesting, and I'm just interested to speed this up here, I'll give a longer version of it at a different time, what we were presented with were fresh cuts of frozen raw meat of veres, caribou, deer, a couple of other things, and fish. And it was just like sashimi just right there on the plate. Wow. And my dad and I, you know, because we always like to try the other thing, "Hey, everyone, if you're ever trying to be polite, cut things up and move them around your plate." That gives the impression. So, the only thing in my background that my father and I could really like dig into, I don't think I could put the raw bare in my mouth. The one thing was a paper-thin raw salmon and rock salt. And my dad and I looked at each other and whispered, "Like locks." Yes. Yes. So, that was my thing. So, that's from a much longer different story. But the point is, yes, you should always eat what's in front of you and don't be a, quote, "baby fish mouth" about it. Do your best because you don't know what goes into, "Look, this thing that I think is like so gross is their prize thing that they want to serve you." That is like, "Hey, you're visiting our country. Here you go." So, I do think that's part of it. And bringing it back to Sunny and Vaya here. Like, she feels like a chicken fingers and French fries type again. Yeah. Would you get a degree? Totally get that, yeah. So, are you, what would you think her response to like mutton would be? Not favorable. This is a woman who is shocked by the idea that outlets, electrical outlets are a different shape. Did you see like the absolute fear that traveled through her body when she was processing that information? Was she processing it? It looked like she suddenly didn't understand what plugs or outlets were. I know what that's, I sympathize with that to an extent. By the way, you tore your rotator cuff, right? You have had that surgery. I tore my labrum in my shoulder, but yes. Same as in my deus. Same type of rehab in the shoulder. Do you want to know how my dad tore his rotator cuff? Yes. I believe he was into Jiekistan. It might have been Kyrgyzstan, and I'm very sorry. I know those are different places. They're very different places, Michelle. But there is a game played on horseback that's like Polo. It's called Rip Your Armor. But it's played with a goat skull. As the ball? As the ball. My father was on horseback. My dad was an all-American lacrosse player in college and at a lifetime fitness. I've seen pictures. He was a very fit man. He was in great shape and an expert athlete. He had the stick that you catch. The femur that they used as a mallet? Look, I don't know if this is an all-bones game. But yeah, he biffed it. He missed the goat skull and tore his rotator cuff. He went in with force to smack it and then missed the skull. His arm just kept going. Was it as right or as left? Oh, I don't remember. But this was when he was in his 60s. I hope for myself and for all of you that you're at a place in your life where you can play goat head polo in your 60s. Jeez, I feel different. I feel like my torn labrum story carries less weight now because that was a years-long combo of a, let's just say, a large denizen of New York tripping on the subway and falling into me while I was holding the upper rail and pinning my arm and spinning me 360 degrees. And then I tripped down a flight of stairs while I was working at a store. So that sounds less, you know, I might borrow your father's story and make it my own. Did you trip down the stairs or did you trip down the stairs because you hated your job? I tripped down the stairs. I'll just, okay. Can we please move on to Tiger Lily and Adnan? I'm only going to move on if you do her voice. Okay, so low-key's entire family was at his wedding, which was not something that made any sense to her because she thought it was just going to be a quiet ceremony. Tiger Lily, what did you think of, I know you happened to be close enough to hear and you picked up the Arabic in this one section, what did you think of what Adnan's mom said to him? Well, because I speak perfect Arabic, it's one of my many talents. He said, "I would die for you." Where do we look at this? So we have, okay, we have... This is the weirdest wedding that has ever been on this show. That's, I was trying to figure it out. By a country mile. That's stuff. We've got Darth Alveder officiating, which I didn't realize was like a voice distortion that was put on. No, we thought it was finally released. We thought it was real. We thought it was real. We thought it was so weird. Well, clearly, I get not wanting to be on camera, but this guy wouldn't even sign a way as voice. No, look, I don't know if this is a shake thing. If you're a shake or shake adjacent, let us know. Please. We'd love to know if you're listening. But yes, they were legally wed in a very nice-looking conference room at a hotel, at a beautiful hotel. Well, I think it's the St. Regis. No, that's where they're staying. Oh, that's what they're staying. Yeah, they traveled a bit for this. I take greater issue with the... Even more than the wedding. And I think the only reason why I can accept that this is happening is because she's older and she appears to be... Obviously, she's very wealthy and appears to be the dominant force in this relationship. But otherwise, if this was a 22-year-old bride, I'd be very concerned. I was just going to say, you were doing a sex reversal here of the participants. Yeah, and it's not about Adnan specifically. And it's not about this culture specifically. It would be anything where you're signing a legal document that's written in a language you don't speak, and you have this sort of like penny-anti-weird translator who's sort of like... You mean the translator who it looks like is okay and like, "Hey, is it okay if I translate this part before it does?" Yeah, this is so... That was weird. I don't really believe that anyone, regardless of their prowess, regardless of their skill level in the bedroom, has incredible mind-blowing, needs no improvement sex the first time. I just don't believe it. I would even just say from personal experience, you can have like terrific chemistry and all of that with someone, but first time, still the first time with someone. You got to get to know each other's bodies. You got to see who likes what, and it's much different. I don't think they were doing any phone sex or anything like that. I don't think they had a lot of like discussion about anything like this, where I think... Tell me, I mean, is this the point that you're trying to make too, is just like, even if all of that's there, first time, still the first time. So anyone who's like, "Oh my God, that was the greatest thing of all time." Probably like a little hyperbolic, no? Yeah, and I just think it's a... Look, you don't... I don't think cast members should be mandated to talk about their sex lives necessarily, but this is bullshit, and we all know it. Now, the only thing I'll throw out there is he says he was a model and that he traveled around a little bit, but it didn't sound like he traveled like through Europe, did it? It sounded more like whatever it is. I think... I was trying to, in my head, come up with like... I don't know, like I just wonder, I know what these strict rules are where he lives in Jordan, but it's like, I don't know, like has this guy really never seen pornography or anything? I think it's been established elsewhere that he's not a virgin. Okay. I'll put it that way. Okay. You know, appears... For camera and family and stuff, maybe they're keeping that quiet. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But also probably does not have like a slew of bed sheets scattered across his past, right? I don't know. Oh, you never know. Depends on maybe that he's got a thing for that. Now, with... Now, I know we started with Tiger Lily, but I just want to swap over to Adnan for a second, because I don't know anything about him at all. And I don't know anything about her either, but I have a better handle on her because she's from here, and I can get a handle on that. Is he, like, in his ITMs or anything, do you feel like we're... like you're getting to know Adnan at all? Like, I don't feel like he's opening the doors at all. No, but you know, I appreciate... I appreciate the amount of faith that you have, that there's something underneath that pretty face that's so in love with itself. Is he just that fucking vapid? Is that it? I don't think there's anything to it. The only other thing I want to say about these two, not to yada yada over your question. I'm just mindful of time. Is that she says, you know, when the male hairdresser comes in and he's Adnan freaks out about it, and who knows if this was a devised moment or not, right? But he's doing all kinds of silly things, like she's aiming her and putting a timer on, and then she goes, "I haven't seen this side of him before." And it's like when would you... On FaceTime? On FaceTime, when you're like sending each other her heart emojis, like... Or like, when you FaceTime him, when Cruz is doing your hair, and he's like, "Okay, I kind of know Cruz, that's fine." Like, where would you have seen this? I think this is bullshit. I think it's all bullshit. I just don't... I don't buy these two. There's nothing between them. When they're, like, together, when they're alone, first of all, which I will never get away from this because I hate silent car rides more than anything. I will be nauseous getting off a plane, and if the Uber driver starts talking to me, there's something in my body that's just like, "All right, how you doing, man? What's up? How's your day going?" I can't... They were in a car for, like, 15 minutes, not speaking, and then when they were, like, when Cruz or Shay or even Tiger Lily were like, "Oh, what's that over there? It's a building." "Okay, thanks, Adnan. That was really helpful. Appreciate it, man." So my point is there's a real lack of, like, validity that I'm feeling to, like, any of this. And let me just put it on the other hand for a second. If they somehow are together, I don't know what that relationship is made out of, apart from, I guess, Tiger Lily may want to duplicate her first marriage with a better-looking guy. That's going to be a hard sell. I mean, but it's not outside the realm of possibilities. It's like, I'm sure that the... I'm sure that being... Every woman wants to be many women want to be coveted, and that's a wonderful feeling, and I've been there myself. It's a nice feeling until it isn't. It's a nice feeling until it's weaponized, and, you know, you're blamed for things that have nothing to do with you. Are you saying, as a woman, you get blamed for things and aren't your fault? Never. Never. Let me ask you something. I think this has been bothering me. There's a lot of grooming involved in Adnan's life, and I understand whatever kind of modeling he does that clearly there's a lot of... What do you think we've got going on below the waist? From a self-grooming standpoint? Yeah. Okay. But I'm going to put it out there that I'm sure these barbers are thorough enough that they would be totally fine with something in that area, too. I think they seem like they're all very comfortable with each other and working with each other. There's a fair way to put it. Are we thinking back, sack, and crack scenario, or do we also have perfectly quaffed pubes? I think that the pubes on the front are quaffed. Mm-hmm. I don't think the butt's ever getting touched, 'cause I think that's a real no-go for Adnan. Right. And the balls? The balls I am questioning now. Now, I mean, just I'm a guy who cares about self-grooming. I'm not super hairy, but, you know, let's just say that a little PSA for men out there, whoever, whatever partners you have, if you're the one who's giving, it is nice to be smooth. Everyone appreciates it. So I would say that I could see, I think that I was going to say, he's not shaving his balls, right? So you'd be looking at, like, a whack situation, and that sounds way too painful. Mm-hmm. So I think it's maybe just, like, sorry to be blunt here, everybody, but this is all pleasure, no guilt. That's right. I think that we got, like, making sure the shaft is smooth and that there's no, like, real like that. It's not like the palm trees in Los Angeles. You have, like, the palm tree at the top and then a little ways down. You have all the dead, like, the dead leaves that look like a wild outgrown. Yeah. Yeah. That's going up the shaft. Right. Okay. Okay. And then I think everything else. I think if you just look at his face and the way he's done up, like, I think that everything else is just very, like, you know, clean and, you know, ready for display. Right. So he's not sporting any creative shapes. It's more like a topiary, neat, high and tight situation. Yes. But as you're saying that, would it shock me if he had a palm tree and, you know, shaved into his pubes? No. I could see them be, because if you're that in a culture where you're denied, you know, expressing your sexuality and stuff, perhaps, like, you know, maybe it's a culture where it's fun to do shapes in the pubes and stuff. Jordanians, listeners, if you're out there getting vajazzled, let us know. And Michelle really means that because we consider ourselves somewhat first in the world, but we always have more to learn. And again, we would love to hear from anybody who knows more than we do on anything we're talking about. That's right. That's right. And I forgot now, because we're running over, but we got it. We got to run through one more couple here. Yes. And this flashpoint is no mystery. We are talking about what went down in the market. What happens if you kill that chicken and she gets pretty freaking violent? Talking about Renee and Cheeti in Lagos, Nigeria. Yeah. So this is something that is so rude. Oh, this goes back. This is a real trigger point for you with people rejecting food in the sepsis. This isn't even about rejecting food. If I, if anybody spoke to me like that in my house, I don't care if they were visiting royalty. They would not be sleeping under my roof that evening. You're calling the embassy immediately? Yeah. Because this is not now look. It's been suggested elsewhere in the media and the Reddit and such. This woman ain't playing with a full deck at a minimum. Hold on. Wait a second. People are saying that she's maybe a little off. There's, there's some untreated mental illness at a minimum. Some neurodivergent traits, her resistance to change her. Oppositional defiance at being confronted with any opinion that's different to hers. I saw off of that. I just want to ask you because it's my experience. When I've met, and I know you're not saying you said neurodivergent. When I've met autistic people, I've never personally encountered a violent autistic person. Does it suggest not autism? Does it suggest something else, this sort of like just this ire and this anger that's just ready to explode at any moment out of her? Some autistic people do have anger issues or violent outbursts. I don't think it's a common trait. I don't think, I mean anybody who is neurodivergent and anyone who suffers from mental illness is much more likely to be a victim of a violent crime than they are to be a perpetrator of a violent crime. That's really important to know. Yeah, that was my understanding. But I don't think that's, this isn't an ND thing. This is like. Oh, I see. Borderline personality. This is like an inability to appropriately address her own impulses and reactions and things like that. Well, even just taking her fixation on aliens and conspiracy theories, that's not like an autism thing. That's a her thing. Correct? Well, it's a special interest of hers. Well, sure. But I mean. She likes to talk about it. Yeah. But I'm just saying, I don't think it's necessarily my point in just getting it out there is that however she's presenting and whatever's coming off and I'm not making comments about if she's neurodivergent or anything. She's fucking crazy and she's off putting and I would be afraid. I think I said this to you already would. She's the type of person if she was in my house. I'd want to walk the door because I'd be afraid she was going to like cut me while I was sleeping. That's the energy with which she's coming with. Yeah. She's not able to appropriately manage her emotions and her impulses and that might make her dangerous. But Jack, baby Jay, all you've got to do is just stroke her arm or put your arm around her and just tell her how much you love her. And you know, it's really easy, baby Jay. That's all you've got to do. That's all you've got to do because otherwise I'm going to get pretty freaking violent. And do you see Victoria, Chidi's lovely sister, right there. She knows like, okay, this is this is not a safe situation. That's why she didn't leave them. Let them leave the house by themselves. She did a great job of that though. Like, no, no, I got to show you. I got to show you how you got to lead him. Yeah, she did. But I hope on the way home, she accidentally on purpose pushed for an A into one of the gutters. Do you think I just want to get your read on this more. We're wrapping up at a moment, but did Chidi seem put off by her at all so far to you? No, I think he's this is another sunk loss fallacy type thing. I got the whole goggles on still. Yep, exactly. Exactly. I just, you know, we'll have more to say about Rayne and future episodes. But I just, there's the fact that she eats chicken anyway, which that's just absurd. And then there's also the fact you're talking about that she's being rude or acting a certain way. I like to keep reminding you every episode that Victoria and her husband Bennett have vacated the main bedroom to give it to Rayne. Yep. I just the Oh, and also the depersonalization of referring to Victoria as quote of a sister. Yeah, that's Oh, brother. There's a lot. There's a lot there. Listen, everyone, we're so happy to have you with us. Welcome to everyone that's new extra special. Thank you and welcome to everyone who is sticking with us for the journey ahead. We've got some fantastic things coming up on for our Patreonies this weekend. We've got a double episode for you of love off the grid. We also next week will be debuting our first scripted dramatic series, which is from you can find it on Amazon prime. We're going to be talking all about it. We've still got time to to catch up seasons one and two are available now. Season three is coming out on Sunday. This is a really fun show. If you like lost, if you like the walking dead, it's not look are there gory moments? Yes, they're few and far between. It's not really a super violent show, but we've got zombies. We've got ghosties. We've got creepy ballerinas. We've got dreamscapes, we've got buggies. And you might be asking, how does that fit in? Well, this is looking at how does a community of disparate people come together to try to form relationships and navigate an entire. An impossible scenario. An impossible scenario. How much higher can the stakes get? We're going to find out. We're going to find out with you. We're super excited. Extra special thank you to Christina for editing this episode for us. We wanted to get it out this week and we have both been so rundown and so busy. Thank you, Christina. Thank you, Christina. We love you. Yes, we love you. My name is Michelle. My name is Jack. We love you. That's it. We love you. We love you. (upbeat music)