Darius Garland is primed for a bounce back year under new Cleveland Cavaliers head coach Kenny Atkinson.
On today’s episode of Locked On Cavs, Danny Cunningham (@RealDCunningham) of 92.3 The Fan and Cleveland Magazine is joined by Martin Rickman to discuss what a good year for Darius Garland would look like and how he can benefit from new Cavs head coach Kenny Atkinson.
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(upbeat music) ♪ It's the Lockdown Podcast Network ♪ ♪ Your team every day ♪ - Hi, I'm Jake from Lockdown. For the love of Pete, it's something you might say when your car gets damaged, but that won't get you the help you need for your vehicle. As someone named Jake, what you should be saying is something that can actually help, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. For help filing your claim 24/7, whether it's on the phone, online, or on the award-winning State Farm mobile app, however you choose. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. - On today's show, we talk about Darius Garland, what a successful season looks like for him, and why I don't think he has to be an all-star again for this year to be a good one for the point guard for the calves. That's straight ahead right here on Lockdown Cavs. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - You are Lockdown Cavs, your daily Cleveland Cavaliers podcast, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. - What's up everybody? I'm Danny Cunningham. You might know me from my time covering the Cleveland Cavaliers, places like 92.3 The Fan, Cleveland Magazine, and a number of other stops along the way. Thank you again for making Lockdown Cavs. Your first list in every day, you can find us anywhere you get your podcast. Apple, Spotify, anywhere else. Drop us a five-star rating. Leave a nice review. Make sure you are subscribed because I've got a really big interview coming tomorrow right here on this feed. It is with someone who plays for the calves. It's all I'm going to say, but you're not going to want to miss that. Check us out on YouTube as well. Just search Lockdown Cavs, hit that thumbs up button. If you're watching, make sure you are subscribed, and hit that notification bell as well. A proud part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Today's show is brought to you by GameTime, download the GameTime app. Create an account use code Lockdown, NBA for $20 off your first purchase. The subject of today's show is Darius Garland. We're doing a little bit of a player preview, and I brought in the guy, Martin Rickman, who knows Darius Garland pretty well. Wrote a really great feature on Darius Garland for dime back in 2022. We're going to talk about that experience, but I want to start, Martin, with the most pressing question, the question I think is the hardest to answer, the question that really doesn't have a correct or incorrect answer, but to you, what does a successful season for Darius Garland look like this year? - I think a successful season for Darius Garland is the Cleveland Cavaliers winning two rounds in the NBA playoffs. I, whatever else happens, I think that's a successful season, whether he's on the Cavs or not at that point in time. That's the goal for the Cavs, and that should be the only thing that matters for them. I don't think player performances necessarily, statistically have anything to do with the trajectory of where this franchise is headed under Kenny Atkinson. I think some players will take step forward. I think some players will take a step back, but in general, the playoffs are the golden now. It's not about individual success. It's not about whether or not guys are making all-star teams or not making all-star teams. They have to win playoff series for this to work and for this to be in the eyes of the franchise and in the fan base, a successful, we run overall rebuild and overall franchise build. I mean, it's kind of a cop-out answer. We can get into the individual soon, but I just think we're so hung up on what Evan Mobley is going to do, what Donovan's going to do, whether or not Jared Allen is going to be traded at the trade deadline, whether or not Darius is going to take a step forward or take a step back or if he's going to be traded to the San Antonio Spurs at some point in time, whether or not Max Drus is a starter or Isaac Okoro should be here. None of that matters. Right now, it's about getting the conference finals and looking for aspirations beyond that. - So I think that is down the right track. That's where I wanted to go because I think you're right about the regular season for this team, it matters to an extent, but this team is always going to be judged on what happens in April and May. And if they play basketball past April and May, it was a complete and 100% success and it does not need to be discussed. If they're playing basketball in June, everyone can agree there. It is just an overwhelming success of the season. But I think for this to be a successful year for Darius Garland, I'm with you with the Cavs have to win two rounds of the playoffs, but I think Darius Garland needs to be part of the reason why they win two rounds in the playoffs. Like, is there a world where things break the right way and the Cavs win two rounds of the playoffs because Don van Mitchell is a superstar and Evan Mobley takes a step forward and Darius Garland is just okay. Yeah, I think there is a world where that could happen. But for me to feel really good about Darius Garland again, and I do think he's going to have a bounce back here and I want to talk about just kind of what that looks like too. But for me to feel really good about him at this point next year, whether he's on the Cavs or not, I think I need to see him be a an all-star caliber player in the playoffs because I don't think he's been there yet. - Yeah, I think that's a totally fair assessment. And if we look at like the actual answer to your question, I believe it's 20 points, 40% from three, getting the assist to turnover ratio under control and being more consistent in the playoffs. If you achieve all four of those things, I think we're going to be having a totally different conversation about Darius Garland than we did heading into the offseason this year. If you look at what he did two seasons ago and the Nick Series notwithstanding, that was a disaster for everyone involved. Their lights were too bright for everyone. It's not just Jarrett, you know? - I've heard that before. - But in that context, I mean, if you just got that exact carbon copy of that season, everyone would be screaming about how excited they were about the Cavs moving forward. Especially if you look at a couple of the shots that he did hit in the playoffs where the monkey kind of got off his back there in the magic series at the end. Like, I do think there is a possibility that just by putting the weight back on that he lost after his jaw is broken and just getting his mind right, having a fall off season and staying healthy, you get back to that. The worry, of course, is that the injuries start to pile up with a guy like that. And when those injuries keep happening and you're consistently on the shelf, you can't get in a rhythm. And Darius' biggest availability, his biggest ability would be availability. I mean, it just truly has been a problem that's really plagued him since Vanderbilt. I mean, it's just, it's been an issue, but when he's on the floor and he can play consistently, he's comfortable. And that's the thing with the DG that is really, really important, is that when he's in the flow of the offense, when he's comfortable, when he's feeling good, things naturally happen with the basketball that you like to see. It's when he's pressing, when he feels like there is pressure on him to perform, you tend to see him make decisions that aren't so great with the ball, or you tend to see him try to force the issue almost to speed up getting back in rhythm. But that's just not something that you can do in the flow of a game, especially when you're playing with a guy like Donovan who needs the ball in his hands as well. And that's when you run into that friction that I think a lot of people end up talking about when they see the poor performances. They don't tend to look at when the flow is going well, that things just naturally happen with the basketball that are good between the two of those guys. They focus on the negative performances, which is, I mean, they are glaring, so. - Right, and I get it, but I do think, like I am still the belief, Martin, that Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell can coexist and they can go on a team that can win and win big. And I feel like you don't have to look any farther than the first regular season that they played together. This past season for me, like I am willing, especially if Darius Garland gets off to a good start where last year he did not get off to a good start. And there were some things going on with him. I think he had some nagging injuries that weren't necessarily talked about all that much. At the start of last year before the jaw injury that knocked him out for six weeks and crossed him like 15 or 20 pounds off of his body. But if he gets off to a better start than he did last year, I'm willing to embrace last season from my memory. Because if you look at the first year Darius and Donovan played together, they were both awesome. I thought that they both had the best year of their career. Now, Darius made the All-Star team the year before that and was really good. I thought he was better that next year. He didn't make the All-Star team because it's really, really difficult to make the All-Star team with two players that play essentially the same position on the same team. That just doesn't happen. So Darius Garland's path to being an All-Star while in the Cavs is pretty severely road blocked by Donovan Mitchell because that just, it does not really happen. So I don't think he needs that accolade for it to be a success. But if you just gave me a carbon copy of what he did in the 2022-2023 regular season and brought that to this season, I think that's a huge win. - Absolutely. And if you're saying that along with the fact that your career growth from Evan Mobley is positive, the role players are producing at a high level and you're still getting the performance out of Jared Allen that you wanted to get that, honestly, last season, if you get that or better, you're in really, really good shape there. I think you're gonna look up and you're gonna see this team gel in a way that we haven't yet seen. I mean, we've seen runs, right? Like in the January stretch, that was about as well as any basketball team can play, obviously competition notwithstanding, but even prior to that, the year before, there were sustainable runs within games where you see the top end gear of what this team is capable of. I think what you never saw were sustained effort levels in that regard on the offensive side of the ball. Whether or not that was JB's problem, whether that was the issue that was always inherently going to be in place with JB, we don't need to worry about that now, but that is going to be Kenny's number one, you know, that's gonna be whether or not he's successful. Can the offense be sustainable at a level that is consistent and high functioning with the caliber of players that are on this team? I think across the board, the talent level was so much higher last year than it was two seasons ago, but the offense looked worse pretty much from game one. So if all you do is take two seasons ago with Cavaliers with the personnel that are in place and that offense actually executes, you're gonna see a team that's going to probably make fans very, very happy. And I think Darius is going to be a big catalyst for that. - I think so too. And I think Kenny Atkinson is going to be a big catalyst for that. What we're going to do next, coming up on today's edition of Locked on Caves, if Kenny Atkinson has to pick only one thing to change about Darius Garland, what would we want it to be? That's straight ahead, right here on Locked on Caves. Today's episode of Locked on Caves is brought to you by Fandal, and I've told you about Fandal a ton. Why have I told you about Fandal a ton? Because Fandal is, of course, America's number one sports book. 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So when you need help protecting the things that matter most, remember to say like you good neighbors, State Farm is there. - Thank you, good for making lockdown calves. Your first listen every day, Martin Rickman with me on today's shows. We talk about what a successful season for Darius Garland was. And before the break, I talked about if Kenny Atkinson could only change one thing about Darius Garland's game. You know, what would it be? And for me, Martin, I do think it's an easy answer and it's not actually the answer that I talk about so much with Darius because the thing I most commonly talk about is I would love for him to be a more aggressive shooter from the outside. I would love for him to take more three pointers because I think he is so good at that that he's not maximizing himself if he doesn't do it enough. But the direction I'm going to go is if he could get Darius Garland to make quicker decisions with the basketball. I think that'd be a big uptick for the calves offensively. I think they could play at a better pace that could get more out of that group. And I actually think that is something that would cut down on Darius Garland's turnovers just a little bit. - Yeah, I really liked that answer because I had three things I was thinking about during the break. One was-- - That's why I need you to pick one. - Yeah, and I'll go through all three and I'll explain why the one I've picked is the one I picked, but I thought, you know, initially, I do believe the assist turnovers need to get to a place that is sustainable. I mean, he had basically an eight to three, two seasons ago. It was basically two to one last year, which is just not going to get it done. So I do think making decisions more quickly, playing instinctual basketball, playing within the flow of the offense rather than thinking too much. I do think he was thinking too much last year. So I do think in general, you know, he's at his best when he just plays and he's not worrying about how he should be playing. So that's number one. The second thing I was thinking about was, can he become a better spot up shooter? Is that something that he's going to be comfortable doing? Is will he just let it fire instead of that hesitation that he was doing last year, where it almost looked like even then he was thinking about, oh, what happens if I miss this shot? What is Donovan going to think about me? What are the fans going to think about me? Like, not saying that's going through his head, but it almost feels like that, you know, when you take that extra second or two that can be an eternity. The third thing is the reasons I'm ultimately going to go with and I think Kenny is going to forced areas to push the pace more and play a faster brand of basketball, which I think helps Donovan as your change of pace guy because you don't need Donovan to then be the one initiating that push. When Don can be slowing the ball down, stalling it out, playing the isolation here a ball that he actually is very good at. And it's not just that he stalls it and doesn't move the ball, it's just he plays better in the slower form of the offense. I think if he and guys like a Coro and Evan at three man unit between the three of those guys, I think if they play with pace, it's going to be very hard for other teams to match that pace. And you're going to have a really, really interesting two man defensive unit with another guy at the crux of that that will allow you to do a lot of different things. And I think bringing Isaac back is a big focal point of being able to do that. If you looked at when the team was doing really well in mid-season, Isaac was initiating the offense and pushing that pace when they were playing really slowly. And I think getting the ball pushed off misses and finding easy opportunities, especially with what Evan is able to do in transition. If Darius is able to unlock both of those guys, you have him in a starter hybrid bench captain performance that I think really takes what this bench is able to do and pushes it to the next level. So I think mine is definitely, can Kenny get Darius to play with more pace? Because that was just not something JB was ever going to do. - Right, I think, and I don't think the pace thing with JB was a Darius Garland thing. Like I don't think that he didn't want Darius Garland playing with pace. I think he was scared to play with pace with two bigs on the floor. I think that's what it was. And I don't think Kenny Atkinson is going to be that same way. So I do think what you said is something that he is going to push onto Darius Garland where he's going to want him to play faster. And I'm not saying that they need to turn into the seven seconds or less sons. Like that's a silly thing for this roster construction. But they can absolutely play faster than they were. They shouldn't be a bottom third of the league team and pace. They should be close to the top half of the league and pace. And I think they've got the personnel to do it. I think Darius Garland would thrive in that situation. I think Evan Mobley would too. Like I think that's when you start talking about how do you get the most out of Evan Mobley? I think pace is part of that discussion. I think playing with Darius Garland is going to be part of that discussion too. And it leads me to what I think is an interesting way to think about things because there ultimately will be pairings of some sort. Now we know that Jared Allen, Evan Mobley, Darius Garland, down of Mitchell, they're all going to start the game together. But the way I see it is there's going to be a pairing with Darius in one of the bigs and there's going to be a pairing with Donovan in one of the bigs. Do you think Evans the right answer to be with Darius? - I do. I actually really do. I mean, I think the two of them have a really nice rapport. I think they complement each other's skill sets well. I think what allows you to do in the two man game with Evan and Darius is Evan can be the hub of the offense in a lot of really interesting ways if you get creative with him. And then that pushes Darius into a place where he isn't really like thinking about playing off ball. It kind of just happens naturally even if he's the primary ball handler. And they're going to be open looks for him to be explosive from beyond the arc. And that is still a skill that I think is underutilized on this basketball team is just how dynamic Darius can be from three point. And I think if Kenny can unlock that in a variety of different ways where the shots come in the flow of the offense rather than it being almost like a hot potato like live grenade situation, which I do think happened a little bit too much in the last season or so. I think that's going to be really, really beneficial to the team overall. And I think you're going to see that three point percentage really across the board, not just for Darius creep up. So I do think that's the two man game that makes the most sense to me because Don and Jared, they make so much sense together. There's so many things that they did and it's such an unbelievably high level in that stretch where they went what like 18 and two across that 20 game span. I just really, I want to watch that film over and over again if I'm Kenny Atkinson and try to see what were the lineups that created that opportunity and try to pair those players together and create those lineups rather than it being an accidental, let's try things out, throw a bunch of guys in there. I think lineup data is going to come into play more with this coaching staff than it did last season. And I think you're going to start to see all of our advanced metrics fans of the Cavs be excited about the lineups that are being put out there rather than shaking their heads at what those lineups are. - Well, and I think the one reason why that grouping probably works a little bit better, why those two groupings are good matches, I think Donovan likes to play with somebody and this is historically dating back to his time in Utah, plays with, likes to play with somebody that's a really good screen center. And there's no debate that Jared Allen is a much better screen center than Evan Mobley. I think that Darius Garland has a little bit more creativity with the basketball in his hand. So he might not need somebody that is as good setting screens and operating in the pick and roll as Jared Allen is. So I do think that's part of the reason why he and Evan Mobley do make sense there. And I think that there are some fun creative things that you can unlock with that group depending on the other pieces that are around them. But I really do think that that is the right answer for the Cavs, just in terms of lineups, in terms of everything. I think that's kind of how they get the most out of this roster construction really. So Martin, you wrote a great story about Darius Garland a couple of years ago where you really dug into who he was. I want to know, I want to learn when we come back about what you learned about Darius Garland, the person. So that's Shreda had right here on lockdown Cavs. Today's show also brought to you by game time, playoff baseball is almost here. You're gonna wanna go watch the Cleveland Guardians at Progressive Field with baseball games. Where are you gonna get tickets? Might be too late to buy tickets from the team. So buy tickets through game time because game time is my favorite ticket marketplace. It should be your favorite ticket marketplace too. They've got everything you need, all the events, concerts, games. Maybe you wanna go watch Brown's Sunday at Huntington Bay Stadium, or Huntington Bay Field. I forgot what it was called, that new name there. But game time knows exactly where that game is. They've got seats for you. And one of my favorite things that game time does, you can toggle on all in pricing. So you know exactly how much you're going to be paying for a ticket before you even get to the end screen. 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And I think when pulling up all the stats and everything in preparation for today, I had to take a look again at how old he is. He's not 25 yet. Still, after all this time. And so it's one of those things I think going back into the feature and going back into my reporting process and kind of taking myself back to when, you know, we spent the day together and we went to the rock hall and then we went to a 27 club and had coffee and smoothies and, you know, just went to the shoot and enjoyed, you know, the waterfront and, you know, did a variety of different shots for the photo shoot. And I just, I would forget throughout that day that he was a 21-year-old at that time. And so I think 21 into 22. And so I just think in general, for me, the maturity has almost, it's almost hurt him because we expect so much out of Darius and have expected so much out of him from such an early age and a success came so early. And what happens after that is how do you recover when you're young from adversity? And one of the quotes that really stuck out when I talked to him was he talked about how he really likes to be coached hard and how he likes the, you know, he likes things to be done the hard way, you know, coming from Gary and, you know, carving his own path and choosing Vanderbilt over a number of different schools at the time and what she did and joining the Cavaliers and, you know, taking on the ownership of wanting to be the face of that team and then still really just like embracing the opportunity that had been put in front of him when Donovan was here rather than demanding a trade, taking the opportunity after this summer to basically refute the reports that had come out and said, I don't want to go anywhere else. Like, yes, my agents are looking out for my best interests but I want to be here in Cleveland. I just think in general that path of selecting the harder things and embracing those is going to work out very well for him long-term and he still has a decade plus of an NBA career ahead of him. And so this first chapter, this first era, this first act for him does not define what his overall career is going to be. And I think that's really what has stood out for me looking back on that piece now. - Right, and as I read back through it, you know, I wanted to earlier today before we did this, so as I'm reading back through this, I think to myself, you know, with everything, because he's been through quite a few injuries, there have been some other off the court things that I think have taken a toll on him, but in getting a sense of who he is as a person, he's not somebody that I'm going to bet against. Like I think a lot of that, and a lot of what you just explained are reasons why I'm betting on Darius Garland to have a bounce back year. I'm betting on Darius Garland to get back to, you know, he might not be on an all-star team, but to get back to all-star form. Like I just, I think he's a hard guy to not believe in once you read this type of thing. - Yeah, and I just think in general, having a coach like Kenny Atkinson for his development and what he's been able to do with guards over the course of his career coaching, both as a head coach and as an assistant, is going to do wonders for Darius Garland, not just for his on-court performance, but for his overall demeanor as a leader, as a veteran, you know, as a soon-to-be, like true veteran in this league, I really believe that Kenny's experience, 'cause Kenny has experienced something similar to what happened to Darius, you know, he had a fall from grace, so to speak, and had to work his way back up and learn from other people and take the adversity he had been given to him through a variety of circumstances on Kortonoff, honestly. I mean, if you even look at the Charlotte situation and making that decision not to be the head coach at Charlotte, like I do think those two things, there's gonna be a natural opportunity for you to develop chemistry between your coach and your star players here. And I think Darius is gonna be a real beneficiary from what Kenny Atkinson and the assistance that they've brought in to fill out that staff. I think really you're going to help Darius, and I do think they're gonna help Evan a lot too. I mean, I know we've talked a lot about how it's a really important year for Evan's development and whether or not he's going to be the star everyone wants him to be that they saw during his rookie season, you know, when they were deciding he was a unicorn, so I use the second coming of, you know, a variety of different players, but I think those two guys are gonna, they're gonna benefit big time from the staff that's been put together. And I'm really, really excited to see what the offense looks like. - No, I completely agree. I can't wait to see what the offense looks like. Everything I've heard from the people I've talked to, Kenny Atkinson's been a big hit so far in Cleveland. I'm excited to see what that looks like for this team. I'm very excited to see what that looks like for Darius Garland. Martin, anything else you want to get in about DG before we get out of here? - Not really, no. I mean, I'm sure he's sad about Tito Jackson's death. He's a big fan of the Jackson's and lived very, very close to where the Jackson childhood home wasn't Gary and just saw that that happened this week. So I'd be curious to see if he saw the news and kind of how it feels about that. But yeah, he's a big fan of music. So when you get into it with them, let's see what he's listening to. I'm curious what he's spending right now. - That might be a question for him at Media Day, which is less than two weeks away. The season is very not so subtly creeping up on us. We can't wait to get to real basketball. Like I said, Cavs meet today, September 30th, training camp starts in Florida, October 1st. Martin, thank you so much for doing this very much, appreciate it. Everyone can check you out @MartinRickman on Twitter. You are editing. Basically everyone's favorite substack is the way I like to do it. You're not writing the substacks, you're just making sure that they're great. Thank you so much, man. - Always, anytime brother. - Thank you for making lockdown calves your first listen every day. Like I said earlier, big interview coming tomorrow. I'm not gonna tell you who. All I'm gonna tell you is a member of the Cavs coming on lockdown calves tomorrow. Stay tuned for that. Make sure you're subscribed. Anywhere you get your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, anywhere else. Check us out on YouTube. Just search "lock on calves." Hit that thumbs up button. (upbeat music) - A prime member. 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