[MUSIC PLAYING] It's the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. 65% of surveyed coaches indicated they support NCAA Tournament expansion, and some of the reasons given, well, they might surprise you. [MUSIC PLAYING] You are locked on college basketball. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What's up, folks? Happy Friday. Happy end of August. It's almost September. It's the start of college football season. The main thing that means, folks, is that it is closer to the start of college basketball season, folks. Welcome in to the Locked On College Basketball Podcast, a daily national college hoop show part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. We are your co-hosts. I'm Andy Patton, he is Isaac Shade, and you are joining us at the place to get your college basketball content. Doesn't matter. The college football has started. We are still talking college hoops on this show five days per week. Want to give a special shout out to our everyday listeners. Those of you hanging out with us all five days a week, especially those of you who are hanging out with us in our Discord channel. If you haven't joined yet, it is free. There's a link in the show notes. You're coming out with us talking college hoops all the time. Today's episode of Locked On College Basketball is brought to you by five hour energy. Five hour energy fixes tired fast with zero sugar and a convenient portable size. It's the perfect pick me up for getting stuff done. Go to fivehourenergy.com and use promo code locked on CFB to receive 20% off your order. This order is only valid until September 30th on one order and cannot be used with other promotions. Go to fivehourenergy.com today. All right, Isaac, we are wrapping up the CBS Candid Coaches Series Phenomenal Job by Gary Parrish and Matt Norlander, asking hundreds of different coaches a variety of questions today. They asked, or they reported about their question about NCAA tournament expansion. So we're gonna talk about the pros of expanding the NCAA tournament, the cons of expanding the tournament, what the coaches said, their opinions on the matter. We're gonna wrap up the show talking about an intriguing potential matchup between Gonzaga and Baylor to start the season and the location, which is a bit of a surprise. We're gonna talk about that and some other ranked on ranked matchups that we might see in the first week of the season. All right, Isaac, let's start this conversation here again. For those of you who have been listening to the show or who have just been following the Phenomenal Candid Coaches Series that the CBS reporters, Matt Norlander and Gary Parrish do, they ask a survey of over 100 Division I college basketball coaches, not all head coaches, not all power conference coaches. Some of them are low major assistant coaches. Some of them are some of the biggest, most high profile coaches in the game. And so they get this kind of variety of responses. And one of the questions, the most recent question that was pulled to these coaches was, how they feel about NCAA tournament expansion. And I should clarify that the question was asked in a way that gave three different options for a response. It was not, should the tournament expand? Yes or no? I was telling you, Isaac, offline, I would have been curious what those results were. Like if the question was that plain and simple, but the way that the question was phrased to the coaches was quote, should the NCAA tournament stay at 68 or expand to 72 or expand to 76? So giving the coaches three different options, two of which are expansion related and one which is just staying at the current 68 team field. The results, I'm gonna say the percentages. Isaac, I'm gonna toss it over to you to talk about how you feel about these results. 38% of the coaches pulled said expand to 76, the maximum amount of expansion offered in this question, 35% of the coaches said to stay at 68 and then 27% said expand to 72. So very even amongst the three different results, obviously in total, 65% said to expand, 35% said to stay. But Isaac, what stood out to you when looking at the results here on the survey? What stood out to me? And well, hey, just how wildly balanced it is between these three options and amongst all these coaches at all levels. One of the things I had said to you before we started recording, I wish we could get a little deeper onto the breakdown of how many, 'cause anonymity is a big part of this and I love that, but I would like to see the breakdown of how many coaches at what levels of college basketball chose each of these to see if there's any variance in that. That would have been really interesting to me. But that said, Andy, outside of the balance of it, I would not have guessed in any way that 76, not only would have been the highest of the two expansion options, but was highest period. That took me by surprise, Andy. I would have guessed because not that I wouldn't thought any coaches wanted to expand, just I didn't think as many would want it and would want this much. And so that was really shocking to me. But so that's my first takeaway, Andy, and I know we're gonna talk more expansion in the second segment. So what we wanna do here folks is get into talking about the pros and cons of staying at 68, which got again, 35% of the, I mean, this is so crazily balanced. And so obviously we have some quotes from coaches in the series and we can respond to some of those. But also, you and I are both on record as being anti-expansion. And I don't think either of our stances have changed on that, but I think we are well-versed enough and can see the shoe on both sides of the foot enough to be able to make these arguments on both sides of it. So Andy, as you think about what some of the coaches said about staying at 68, did any of them specifically resonate with you? - Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I think that the main argument for staying at 68 is the fact that the bubble already feels fairly weak right now, like there's not a lot of, in my opinion, an opinion of many who follow the sport, who cover the sport or who are just fans, that there's not a lot of like teams that really should have gotten the field that aren't getting in. Like we're in a spot right now where, if you're not making the field, you're probably not a particularly good team. And for me, and I think there's a much larger conversation that could be had and that maybe will be had about the fact that I think there are potentially deserving teams getting left out of the field, but they're not even being considered because they're mid-major teams who won 22 games, but finished fifth in the WCC or finished fourth in the A10 or whatever. And they're not getting that consideration. And so expansion to me, the concern is that you're just adding more teams that finished right at 500 in conference play. And last year Virginia was a team that was incredibly poor when they played in their one NCAA tournament game. And while I think there were teams that deserve to be in more than Virginia, like Seton Hall, who won the NIT or Pitts or Wade Forest or somebody like that, like none of those teams, I looked at their resumes and we talked about them a lot before the actual field came out. And none of them were like, wow, that team clearly deserved to be in Indiana State was probably the most notable example. And again, they're a mid-major. And so I think for me, my opinion about conference or about NCAA tournament expansion is less about the number of teams and more about the way that we're picking teams and the priorities that we're focusing on. And I think that there's, again, we'll talk about scheduling a little bit later in the show. And I think that the way teams are scheduling right now is a byproduct of the way that teams are being picked for the tournament. And I think it's not a catastrophic negative for the sport, but I think there are ways that that could be tweaked to be better that don't require us to add more teams to a field that already feels like it's as big as it needs to be in my opinion. - Yeah, I mean, to your point there, as we're talking pros and cons of not expanding, a pro of not expanding is that it continues to make the regular season count for more, right? Because the bigger we get, the less you have to do in the regular season. And so why would I schedule with any level of difficulty? Andy, probably my favorite quote of the coaches that said, "Keep it at 68" was one that you pointed out. And the quote was this, "Keep it at 68." If high majors can't get at largest based off that, come on, man, y'all got all the money, all the resources, 15 staff members, if you still can't make the attorney, that's your fault, not the committee. And clearly, that means this is from a mid or low major coach, but I very much resonate with this because we can bicker and argue all we want about the subjectivity of the teams at the cut line and what some committee members value and what some don't. But if you're a high major who has done your job, you will be in this tournament. And that, to me, is a big deal. And the bigger we get, the more mediocre it is. And I get the argument of, well, division one, in totality is expanding, so social the tournament. I hear that, but man, this is a special thing. And it's just the perfect 68. And so the bigger we get, the more unwieldy it gets. And I would struggle with that. - Yeah, and I'll make one more quick point before we move on to talk about what the coaches who were in favor of expansion had to say. But I know Ken Pomeray talked about this a couple months ago in this topic was kind of, it kind of cycles in and out of being in the news every few months for apparently eternity. But Ken was talking about the percentage of teams that make the NCAA tournament is lower now than it was in 1985. His argument being there's more D1 teams, so therefore we should expand the tournament so that this similar percentage of teams make it. And I understand that argument. And when I first saw him present it, he is very good at presenting data and he wrote a very good article about it. But the problem with that argument is that the majority of teams that have been added to the division one level since 1985 are not really contending for NCAA tournaments. It's very rare for teams to be in that conversation. There are a few who are newer to the D1 level who are going to compete or have already competed for automatic qualifying bids in smaller leagues. But like the idea that, oh, there's more D1 teams so we should let more teams in when the majority of those new D1 teams are finishing outside the top 10 in like the MEAC and the NEC. Like that to me is not moving the needle as much as it should. So I am all for staying at 68. I am not somebody who's like going to be deeply upset or offended or anything. If it does expand, I think it is inevitable at some point that it will expand. I don't know how soon, I don't know to what extent. But I think there were a lot of fairly compelling arguments made by some of the coaches to expand. And I think that's an interesting thing that came out of this research from Norlander and Parrish as well. - Yeah, we're going to take a look at it because Andy, you and I have not hidden our feelings on NCAA tournament expansion. But with all of those, we want to get into those. We want to talk about them. We want to make sure to give them good voice of what's going on here. So Andy, we're going to do that coming up in just a second. Right after I tell you about factor, folks, fuel up with factors, no prep, no mess meals. 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I think many people who cover college basketball, many people who follow college basketball, have tended to skew it, and perhaps we're in an echo chain, but I don't know. But I think the general consensus is anti-expansion. But what we saw in this survey was not only that the majority of coaches surveyed did want expansion, but that it was a healthy mix of power five coaches who were advocating for it as well as mid-major coaches who were advocating for it. And a lot of the coaches who were in favor, and this is what really stood out to me, a lot of the coaches who were in favor were kind of in favor with specific caveats. - That's right. - And caveats that likely aren't going to be what would actually happen. I've seen 76, but only if auto bids are automatically in the 64 team field, that's a big one. I think a lot of coaches, and certainly in this environment where a lot of low-major coaches are being interviewed, they're going to say, I do not want to be in a situation. And I think Parrish acknowledged in the article that one of the most lopsided questions they've ever asked in this series was about should automatic bids go away and then sit up with tournament. 97% of coaches think that automatic bids should remain in the NCAA tournament. So that is a overwhelming consensus. But you're seeing a lot of these coaches who want to expand with saying, I only want to expand if more good mid-majors are considered. I, somebody specifically said, quote, I would like to see 76 only if more good mid-majors are considered and not another power five team that's not even 500 in their conference. If that's not done for more mid-majors than keeping it 68. And Isaac, that is a very strong argument to me. And in fact, like, I'm not going to be swayed necessarily by that, but if you were to say we're going to add eight teams and the types of programs we're going to strongly consider our 20-win mid-major teams that finished second, third, or fourth in quality conferences like the Missouri Valley or the WCC or the A10, and there's no way that that would be like the way that the ruling would come down. But if we knew that that's who they're going to consider, you'd probably be able to sway me at least in that regard. - That's right, absolutely, Andy. That's where we can get on board with this, right? Like so many of the quotes, like we could read them off, but so many of the quotes here are like, protect the AQs. And the one argument that does sway me on keeping eight automatic qualifiers in the play-in games is that that counts as an NCAA tournament unit, and that is a lot of money for that school in that conference. So in that regard, because if you're getting a 16 against a 16-in-a-playing game, it's guaranteed that one of them is going to get an NCAA tournament unit. Aside from that, there is no reason that automatic qualifiers should not be in the main field of '64. That's my biggest frustration, and that's what you see all over and all over and all over. Like here's one I resonate with. I'm in a one-bit league at a place where job security is tied directly to making the NCAA tournament. Let's make it more feasible for non-power fives to get in that large. And that is one reason for, that was the person that voted for 76. Andy, I can get behind that one. That one makes some sense to me because it's like, let's do it. Now, there's also the argument for, you know, this thing is so unwieldy. Is it time to just make, like we have in football with FBS and FCS may, you know, that's a whole other conversation though. And so I hear that. Here's what I do not want to see. This was another person that voted for 76. I greatly dislike the play in games. So if they can come up with a number that's not outrageous, but eliminates play in games, in worst case, maybe creates buys for the top seeds, that would be ideal. I think the play in round significantly lessens the NCAA experience for the players and coaches. Well, Andy, I don't know what this person is thinking is going to happen because we can't start any sooner and we can't end any later. That's all tied to the masters. And when it is, we've got this specific window of time in which we can do this. And there, if you're going to expand, like we already are like so tight, like you can't do any more rounds. Doing something with buys, I cannot do that, all right? Like that's when it was like, somewhere in between 32 and 64 where it was like, we had play the first like top 16 teams or something didn't have. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not doing that. We're stuck with the playing games. I think that's what it's going to be. Now, something I could see, if you want to expand to 76, Andy, here something, if you could do like some sort of minor play in tournament on Monday, Tuesday or Tuesday when, I don't know, just something like that. But no, we're not doing buys, get out of here with that. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I agree. And I think I'm going to go back to the point that I was making a little bit earlier and try not to hop on my cell box for too long about it. But to me, one of the issues, and the reason that I've been anti-expansion is that it's the same reason that many people are like, I don't want more not very good high major programs in the tournament. I don't want, you know, I don't think that we, like I'm not clamoring for last year's pit team to be in the NCAA tournament or last year's Wake Forest team or St. John's or teams that got left out. Like would they have been better than like Virginia? Probably, but I'd advocate for Indiana State and teams like that. And I think unless the committee finds a way to make a better argument to get those teams in and the problem, and again, this is a bigger topic for another time, but the problem is that those teams are struggling to schedule the kind of teams in the non-conference that they need to be able to schedule in order to put together a resume that stands out. If you're a Santa Clara or, you know, St. Louis when they're having a good year, like Duquesne, I know they got the auto bid last year, but like teams that are our top three or four and the A10, top three or four in the WCC, those teams, nobody's playing, nobody's playing. I made that, I talked about this on the lockdown's Ags podcast recently. Arkansas is playing one WCC team this year and it's Pacific and they're playing Pacific because they finished 359th in Ken Palm last year and they want to just go blow out a team. And so it's like, I would love to see Santa Clara get a crack at Arkansas or San Francisco or teams like that, but they don't get those opportunities 'cause those teams don't want to play them. And so this team then goes out and wins 20 games and you know, clips can zag at once or twice in the tournament or in the regular season or clips, same areas. And it has a couple quad one wins and very few bad losses, but they don't have enough quad one opportunities. And to me, that is a problem in the sense, I don't, it's a problem that I don't know how to fix 'cause forcing teams to play, saying hi major teams, you have to play these specific mid major teams, that doesn't work. You can't do that, but there's just a lot of logistics that I think prevent these programs that are good enough to make the NCAA tournament from getting in. And then when they do, you do what the horrendous committee did 2021 when they played Murray State and San Francisco against each other in the first round, which was appalling to do that to those two mid major programs. But like, we can find a way to get more teams like that, 20 plus win teams that didn't win their tournament, but that had decent resumes. That would be great, but my concern is that expansion is going to lead to, you know, more opportunities for Northwestern and teams like that to get into the field when they really weren't all that deserving in the first place. So that would be my pitch would be, let's find a way to fix this, but it's just a, it's not a, it's a problem that has nowhere close to a simple solution, unfortunately. - Andy, last thought for me, and I think you had one last thought about the selection process as well, but for me, like with, I appreciate that the committee has been and is taking their time to make this decision, like that they're not taking it lightly. But for me, it's a thing of like, the whole landscape has been so wackadoodle from COVID to NIL to transfer portal, then we've had all the conference realignment, and now we're waiting on this house settlement news to come through. And it's like, I just, let's not change anything else until the landscape lands a little bit more, and we're on a little more sure footing. I guess a nice thing, you know, as we think about selection and then maybe this is a segue into what you're about to talk about, but we're getting more on the team sheets, more metrics, and hopefully that's gonna help. And so I'd like to see if that can be better. Again, before we make changes one way or another, don't mess with it. - Yeah, no, yeah, honestly, between what I said and what you just touched on, that's pretty much my whole point. I'm glad we've seen the committee is trying to get more data points for the people who make those decisions to utilize. I think there's gonna be continued growth in that area, but I still think that there's this subset of teams that are just kind of left in the lurch right now. And I'd like to see that somehow get addressed. But again, if I had answers, I promise you I tell them. I just don't know what they are yet. - That's right. Well, Andy, as we get, we're about nine weeks away from kickoff of the college basketball season. Last year, Andy, in the first week of the season, we had exactly one game of a ranked team against a ranked team. This year, we already have multiple games of this nature. And man, thank goodness that's not gonna be the case this year. One of them, in fact, might not even happen in America. How fun is that? We'll talk about that coming up in just a second. Right after I tell you about five hour energy, look, just about every day after lunch, I start feeling tired and I hit that afternoon. Oh, man. And folks, if you're like me, you're like Andy, he's a new dad, he's feeling it all the time. - All the time, good news, folks. You're not alone 'cause we're with you. In fact, research shows that more than 70% of us hit that wall after lunch. So why not let a five hour energy shot help you leap over that wall instead of crashing into it? I've been working on cutting sugar out as I get a little bit older in life. So I love that five hour energy is a zero sugar drink plus it's this convenient portable size and is the perfect pick me up to help you get stuff done post lunch. The five hour energy website has flavors galore like watermelon, tropical burst, great berry, and more. Try them all. And on the site, you can go make your very own 12 pack or 24 pack, choose your own flavors and get it delivered right to your door. So just go to fivehourenergy.com. That's the number five not spelled out and get some five hour energy product today. You can use our promo code locked on CFB to receive 20% off your order. Offers only valid until September 30th on one order and can't be used with other promotions and the code is no good on subscription orders. Go on to fivehourenergy.com today. Bada, bada boom, sold. Huh? Just sold my car on Carvana, dropping it off and getting paid today. Already? What, you still haven't sold yours? You told me about it months ago. I just... Is the offer good? Oh, the offer's great. Don't have another car yet? I could trade it in for this car I love. Come on, what are we waiting for? Ah, you're right. Let's go. Whether you're looking to sell your car right now or just whenever feels right, go to Carvana.com and sell your car the convenient way. Terms and conditions apply. Andy, it's been rumored for a while now that we might get a little Baylor Gonzaga action sometime early in the season. We've been hearing behind the scenes that might be sometime in week one. And I know that you actually just recently had some good conversation about this on lockdown zags. And as we think about this, Baylor, Gonzaga, Gonzaga, Baylor, we expect both these teams to be top 10 preseason, top 15 worst. I don't, I think they'll be top 10. I will have them both top 10. I should say. And so Andy, I know you got some good insight into this. Why don't you hit us with what we're hearing about this potential matchup? Yeah, spoke with Rocco Miller, who folks, if you're somebody who follows college basketball closely and you're on social media, definitely give Rocco a follow. He runs bracketeer.org. He does a lot of bracketology stuff, but he also does a ton of scheduling stuff. He's really, really plugged into non-conference schedules as they come out. And so I spoke with him on lockdown zags about the remaining games for Gonzaga schedule. And he mentioned that while the reporting up to this point for the Gonzaga Baylor game in the first week of the season has been that they were trying to find a venue in Las Vegas to play the game and that it was expected to potentially be as early as November 4th, the opening day of the season, that now, and this is according to him still a rumor, although he kind of expects that it is going to happen, the expectation is that Gonzaga and Baylor will in fact play on November 6th, which is the first Wednesday of the season. And then instead of being in Las Vegas, this game is going to happen in Mexico City. And if that ends up being a reality, that is an incredibly cool opportunity for Gonzaga, for Baylor, for the big 12, for college basketball in general, for Mexico City, like it's got a lot of benefits. And folks who've been paying attention to this, the big 12 has been trying to get into Mexico City for a while now. Over a year, there was rumors of the Houston game being played in Mexico City. I think that was maybe last year or two years ago, I guess it must have been last year with them in the conference. So that they weren't able to make it happen, but now this is something that I'm working on. Obviously, Gonzaga and the big 12 have been rumored and now with the Yukon rumors kind of coming back up. It's not, it's very intentional that Gonzaga is the team being willing to make this event in Mexico City potentially happen. That is not a coincidence. Again, I said this on the Zag show, I'll say it here. Gonzaga doesn't need to convince Brett Jormark that they want to be in the big 12. He is fully on board with them being members of the big 12, but the fact that this is a big initiative conference wide and that Gonzaga is helping to try to make that a reality again, assuming this comes together, is not unintentional. It's very specific, it's very planned. It sounds like the game would be on flow sports if this were the reality, which would make it a pay-per-view event, which I know is not everybody's cup of tea. I certainly understand that, but what an incredible, even if this game happens in Vegas, even if it happens a different day, if it happens in the first week of the season, Gonzaga, Baylor, it's hard to get a whole lot better now, where you can rematch that 2021 National Championship, Scott Drew, Mark Feud, two of the five best in the game, like this is an incredible, exciting, fun matchup. Jeremy Roach versus Ryan Nemhard, North Shadow Mirvers, Graham Eke, give me every single aspect of this game. I think it's gonna be absolute blast. And if we get this thing in Mexico City, cool boy, that's gonna be one of the most fun games the entire year. - That's right, and Andy, we wanna even go big picture with this thing, 'cause as I mentioned earlier, last year, in week one of the season, we had only one ranked-on ranked matchup that was number 12 Arizona at number two Duke, with Arizona actually going and winning that game. - That was great team. - Oh my gosh, what a great game. That was Friday of opening week. This year, Andy, obviously we don't have the preseason rankings out yet, but assuming we get this Gonzaga, Baylor matchup, those are gonna definitely be ranked and should be top 10, top 15 as we've already said. On opening day, we're gonna get Ohio State Texas in Las Vegas, interestingly enough. You know, I think those are both fringe top 25 teams. I don't know, you know, just 'cause Ohio State wasn't good last year, they bring a lot in, we'll see. But then on Friday of that week, November 8th, we get North Carolina at Kansas. Two more teams that are gonna be, I mean, Kansas will either be one or two preseason. North Carolina is a little harder to peg down, but again, another top 15 team. We're gonna get Auburn and Houston the next day on November 9th in Houston. Andy, two more teams, it should be top 10, top 15. Also that same night, Tennessee at Louisville, like Drew Road game, Andy Louisville is not gonna be ranked. But I think they will be ranked at some point this season. I think they have enough talent, but Tennessee definitely is. We also that weekend on the 10th of November, we get Michigan at Wake Forest. Again, both fringe teams that we think have the talent, but we don't know if they'll be ranked preseason. So Andy, man, Arizona Duke, thank you for last year, but we are gonna have so many ranked on ranked match ups in week one this year. Keep on coming, coaches keep scheduling the stuff. It's the goods. - Yeah, I'm pumped. It's such a good thing for the sport to have more marquee match ups early. And in an era where rosters are turning over the way that they are, I'm actually kind of surprised that we're seeing more coaches being willing to do this, like Calipari and Arkansas is a great example. They're playing some really good games early in the year. And they're in a situation where their entire roster is different, except for Trevor and Brazil. And when we talk about Baylor already, like they're coming in with multiple new starters. I think that these three new starters for that team, so Tennessee has to replace key pieces. Like these are teams that are gonna be very different looking from where they were last year, and they're still willing to challenge themselves early in the season. And to me, that's a really good thing for the sport. And I hope to see it, that trend continue. - Mm, man. I love it, Andy. It's coming. Like we said, it's just over nine weeks away before this starts. Football's starting this weekend. It's gonna be so much fun. And that means we're just leading right on in to CBB, baby, let's make it happen. - Absolutely, folks. That's gonna wrap it up for us today here. I'm a lockdown college basketball podcast. Thank you so much for making this show your first listen or your first watch of the day. We got more fun stuff coming your way next week. We're gonna continue to start, to get into our conference previews, our team previews. We got some of that stuff lined up for you as we get into the month of September. And very excited about those opportunities. We're gonna have some fun guests lined up for you as well, continue to keep you up to date on recruiting news, as we see stuff with that as well. As always, I wanna say apologies to the lawyer family. Let's go Wildcats. And until Monday, have a fantastic weekend watching football for those of you who celebrate, but until Monday, peace out. - A Prime members, you can listen to this lockdown podcast ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. You
