That was a brutal watch. And by brutal, I mean embarrassing. The Wolfpack get absolutely dismantled at the hands of the Clemson Tigers. The worst part about it all? It was never close.
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[MUSIC PLAYING] It's the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Did I hear you're shopping for a car? Because I've been at it for ages. Such a time suck, right? Not really. I bought it on Carvana, super convenient. Oh, then comes all the financing, research, am I right? Well, you can, but I got pre-qualified for a Carvana auto loan in, like, two minutes. Yeah, but then all the number crunching in terms, right? Nope, I saw real numbers as I shopped, found my dream car, and got it in a couple of days. Wait, like, you already have it? Yep. Go to Carvana.com to finance your car the convenient way. If you are looking to refinance or get a loan right now, let me tell you about inter-cap lending. Inter-cap lending is one of the largest independent lenders in the country. They are hyper-responsive. They embrace change, and their borrower experience is absolutely fabulous. At Lockdon, we have our own personal loan officer, inter-cap lending. His name is Steve Carter. And if you call him and tell him you're locked on, you get the corporate discount. But more than that, what's so great about Steve Carter is the reviews at Lockdon that we continually get about Steve. Mike Curtis emailed me to say, I just wanted to thank you for your network. We just refied with Steve Carter. It was so incredibly easy. I can attest to it. I got my loan done with Steve Carter. Who else, Richard Gordon, emailed me and said, thank you so much for promoting inter-cap lending. We used them earlier this year. Steve was amazing. And Steve is amazing. Call him at 385-885-28, 385-885-28. Tell him to lockdon sent you. Inter-cap lending, NMLS, number 19-0-465. For more information, visit inter-cap lending.com. In every situation, there's a good, the bad, and the ugly. But what we witnessed today against Clemson, it was a fourth thing, a very worse fourth thing. You are locked on Wolfpack, your daily podcast on the NC State Wolfpack, part of the Lockdon Podcast Network. Your team, every day. What's up, Wolfpack Nation? It's time to get locked in with Lockdon. This is your post-game Saturday feed. We thank you for making a lock-on. We'll pack your first list in each and every day. You're free and available wherever you get your podcast and on YouTube, part of the Lockdon Podcast Network. Your team, every day. Our Saturday post-game live is sponsored by Fandool, now through September 22nd, which is tomorrow. All Fandool customers can bet $5.00 and get a three-week free trial of NFL Sunday and ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV. Head on over to Fandool.com in order to get started. Henson, that was brutal. It was a 59 to 35 loss at the hands of the Clemson Tigers and don't let the scoreboard fool you. The game was never truly that close. Clemson puts 28 points on us as soon as the first quarter and from there on out, it was the true definition of a blowout. - I mean, what can you say about this type of game? I don't take pride nor pleasure in being right about this team. I knew after game one, I said, things look a little iffy, but it's game one. They may be able to work some things out. After game two, I very specifically said, "Hey, that's not Tennessee's a good team." That they did a good job helping us along the way. But boy, this team, there's something in the water. There's something wrong here. Then it gets Louisiana Tech. All of the same old problems rear their ugly head again because the sad part is I sit here looking and saying, we're still at the same place or we're still at the same place that we were before this season started. You know what that place is, Grayson? I said this season would be about this team's confidence. It would be about this team's mindset. It would be about this team's preparedness to do the little things. How under God's green earth do we allow a quarterback to go 55 yards untouched on the first drive? That's the type of stuff that I mean when I say it's, other teams can be better than us and have been better. And I'm not taking anything away from Clemson, not taking anything away from Tennessee, not taking anything away from West Carolina, not taking anything away from Louisiana Tech. But the things that I have seen coming in, laying the shoulder on the 200 plus pound man, what do you think is going to happen? What do you think is the end result of that? Oh, it's a password, it's a play action pass protection on the deep shot and I just let a guy get around the bend. What the hell do you think is going to happen? What in your mind is the logical conclusion of that? So quickly and show your work, I would like to see, the class would like to know. So I sit here and I say to myself, this will probably look very similar to what I've seen out of these teams in the past in terms of big game, what the bad, and then you may circle the wagons for these other teams or you may not. You honestly may not because I don't know what the culture and countenance of this team is in this iteration. I can talk about what I've seen in the past. I'm not going to say, oh, Doran's done nothing to establish a culture and that's why I don't know, that would be a lie. But what I will say is this team is different in that who are the leaders? I can point to Devin Van as a guy that I definitively say, he's a leader, he's a leader, he cares himself like a leader, he plays like a leader, he's vocal likely, he does all the things. But when I go from there, who else do you look at? On this entire team, and you say that guy's a leader, when he speaks, the team moves and he backs it up with this play. I'm struggling to find it. - We talked a lot in the last couple of weeks about finding an identity and mainly we're talking about offense and we had those conversations. The defense today, zero identity at all. And that was kind of staggering to see that if a Tony gives the defense to just get completely knocked on your rear end right out of the gate, you go down 28 and up and then sure, you do have to factor in two fumbles there in the first quarter, you put the defense in a negative position and more often than not, that's the kind of situation you're gonna find yourselves in. But we talked a lot about the physicality of this defense, the struggles we've had on tackling issues, these first couple three games, first three games. This was the culmination of all of our worst fears in the first couple of weeks, bottled into one extremely poor performance here down here in Clemson. And to open up the ACC slate, it's more than deflated. And you see one of my taglines on the side of the screen here coming into the season, we had two bigger games circled, bigger than the other 10 in this Tennessee and it was Clemson. You've now gone through both of those games and you've been brutally humiliated in both of them. And so I said, I believe it was after the Tennessee game, you're currently left with more questions that we have answers. Now, after the Clemson game, you might even have more questions than that. Who are the leaders? I think Kenton brings up a beautiful point there, what kind of leadership is being brought forth on this team right now? Because you've been through two horrific embarrassments and it's so quickly to see a team go completely off the rails after situations like that one. A situation specifically going off the rails, Anthony Belte, ejected today for spitting on a Clemson player. That's not NC State. And I don't know, I mean, heat of the moment, there's no excuse for that ever. And so it just felt like not only did we not recognize the team on the field, it wasn't an NC State team on the field. And so that I think is one of the tougher pills to swallow after just getting completely boat raced here on Saturday. And so, yeah, you wanna look big picture the rest of the season. I don't think you can look big picture. You have to stay focused one game at a time because you have so many issues, you can't afford to get ahead of yourself. - And there are two things I wanna get into. Number one, one of the comments says, remember when Gibbs blamed the Tennessee loss on McCall? Did you listen to the show? Do you need to go back and listen again? Do you need to go back and listen again? 'Cause I'm pretty sure I said that no part of this team was good enough in that game. I'm pretty sure I said that. And this is what I mean. We've said this time and time again, and I need to reiterate this again. This is not about the other teams. This is not about one player within C-State. And I didn't, I love Grayson. That's my brother right there. If you don't see the resemblance, I'm sorry for you. But with that in mind, when Grayson said this is our biggest game of the season all week, in my mind, I kept saying, no, it's not. No, it's not. Because if you have an ACC Championship in mind, yes, it would've been. But the way that I saw, what I saw out of this team in the first three games, I struggled to find an eight or nine win team, let alone a team that's going to compete for an ACC Championship. And that's just the reality. That's just the reality. I would have loved for this game to feel meaningful to our season. It didn't. It honestly, and I don't mean that as in, the players didn't play like it was meaningful. I mean, coming into this game, I knew that this ain't gone. They're gonna go well, and we are not there as a team. I knew the fact that we are having problems with basic run fits. One of the first keys to run defense, and I guarantee you, dollars to donuts, right? Anybody who knows me knows, I'm more than willing to change my opinion if new information is presented, more than willing. But I am willing to bet you this. When we make, or when we go back and watch the film, especially, especially on that 55 yarder from, on that 55 yarder from clubbing, I guarantee you, we find at least two defenders in the same gap, possibly four. When you cannot get the basics of run fits down, run fits are day one stuff of defensive install. What do I mean by that? In the first day of camp, before all that you get into the wonky blitzes and all that, before you get into the third and more effects, you get into, hey, on this plate, this is your gap. You are here, you are here, you are here. If they go here, you will feel here. If they pull here, you will feel here. And yet I know for a fact based on how that play developed and the fact that he went untouched, that's what happened. Because if he had to break a tackle in the hole, then that's all, well, you know, hey, your imposition just make the play. We are constantly being outlevers defensively. We are not getting there with the right attitude to bring ball carriers down defensively. Offensively, the offensive line is Jekyll and Hyde. And Grayson was there in person. I watched while I was at work finishing something up. And the announcer, I believe this McElroy said, this offensive line had moments where they could open up holes against the first team defense. But then they'd just have moments where they're completely off the rails against the third and fourth string. Now, I've said that the offensive line has been inconsistent. Grayson said that the offensive line has been inconsistent. Greg McElroy said an offensive line has been inconsistent. At this point, I feel like my mom had a pair of teacher conference. Everybody can't be lying on you. Everybody's not telling the exact same lie on you. So I walk away from this. I disagree, Grayson. I don't have more questions than answers. I think I have answers. They're just not favorable. They're just not favorable. And people are going to tell me, kitchen that is Clinton and that is Tennessee. They're on a different level. I refuse to buy them. Because again, I'm not, guys are on a different level when you're in position. It's just a playmaker from the other team makes a play that's like, hey, you tip your cat. I think it's the other team, when you show up, what a bad exit. Will you show up and do everything to wrap up? And this is like, hey, that kid's going to be playing on Sundays, man. Sometimes they just do a thing. And you say, yeah, you got nothing for it. I have watched this team. Time and time again, struggle with the most basic thing. Struggle with the most basic bliss pickups. Struggle with the most basic runfits. Struggle to make tackles when there are multiple guys there. Struggle to secure the ball where you have it in your hands already. And you don't have any need to do anything crazy to get outside. So again, this is not about Clemson, Tennessee, Louisiana State, Western Carolina, Grayson McCall, C.J. Bette. It's not about one man or one team. It is about this team doing the little things that you would need to do to beat any damn ball. - Yeah, no disagreement here for me. And you mentioned that public touchdown can wait untouched. You can argue that the majority of the touchdowns come from sport today were untouched. Or maybe it was like one quick little arms attack or broken and then it's off to the races. The defense, we're often not was found at a position a lot today. I'll be excited to go back and watch this tape so we can point out exactly where things won't sound from. Just a very ugly, uninspired, undisciplined performance here by the defense. I do want to get into C.J. Bailey talk here in just a couple minutes. - Let's do it. - I saw some promising things from C.J. and parts of the offense. We're going to touch on that up a quick word from our sponsors. Our first live sponsor here on Saturday is eBay Motors. Hashan drive and patience, that's the formula for winning championships. It's also what keeps your rider die alive. eBay Motors is everything you need to maintain your vehicle and level it up to peak performance. The superchargers, the roof racks, exhaust kits and LED headlights, whether you're into speed power or style, eBay Motors has got you covered. With over 122 million parts for your number one rider die, you'll always find exactly what you're looking for. It's easy to make your car an MVP and bring home huge wins when you're using eBay Motors. Keep your rider, keep your rider die alive at ebaymotors.com. Eligible items only exclusions apply. - Did I hear you're shopping for a car? 'Cause I've been at it for ages. Such a time suck, right? - Not really. I bought it on Carvanna, super convenient. - Oh, then comes all the financing, research, am I right? - Well, you can, but I got pre-qualified for a Carvanna auto loan in like two minutes. - Yeah, but then all the number crunching in terms, right? - Nope, I saw real numbers as I shopped, found my dream car and got it in a couple of days. - Wait, like you already have it? - Yep. - Go to Carvanna.com to finance your car the convenient way. - All right, I do want to start discussing CJ Bailey here because I do, and all honestly, think he wins pretty much the lone bright spot of NC State performance here against Clemson. I finished 16 of 25, 240 yards. One touchdown was the screen out of the back of the Jordan Waters. He did throw a pick and it did go for a pick six. That was probably the one blemish I'd say in his stat sheet. I don't know if the, I think the throw is just too short, regardless, I liked what I saw from CJ today. And kind of what we talked about coming out of the Louisiana Tech game, he showed that propensity to stretch the field a little bit with his arm talent. He even did that today against Clemson. I think early in that game, we saw the quick passing game, it was working. And so I was very confused on why on third and long, maybe third and sixth, 37, we're going draw up the middle for a loss of two. And it wasn't just one instance of that. It was multiple times. That was irritating for me personally. However, as a whole, CJ Bailey looked better than I even anticipated that he would in the game like this. We talked about potentially him being a freshman, not exactly stepping back and thinking in how big of a moment this was. He was just out there playing ball. I thought he showed great physicality through the air and through the run. There's a couple of times where it took multiple Clemson defenders to bring him down. I love to see that from such a young kid. And I had tweeted from our lockdown wolf back and count, CJ Bailey is quarterback one. That was correct last week. I think it's even more correct now. NC State's best move, I think for the near and immediate, the near future and the distant future, I think you already start to begin to check out your prospects with CJ Bailey at quarterback. I think that is your guide. - Oh, I don't think there's any argument there. I don't think that anybody can make in good faith an argument against CJ Bailey being your guide, because I mean, objectively speaking, he looked really good. Now, you and I both said he was gonna make a freshman mistake, which he did, he did. And that's why level setting is important. And that's why I talk about this team and the way that I do. The level that we had set pre-season was ACC Championship all those good things. The level after the first game, for me, it didn't really drop yet. But I'm like, eh, look a little fishy. After the second game level dropped way down, but to get back to CJ Bailey and talking about what I've seen today, the performance I saw from him makes me believe that this can be a seven to eight win team. It makes me believe that we can get to seven, eight wins, but that's about the ceiling of this team. That's about the ceiling, because again, it's not just about him. It's never just about one guy. It's about multiple parts coming together to be, to do enough to win a football. And I, he would have to play heroic Superman ball to get this team to where they need to be to be in an ACC Championship. I don't feel comfortable trusting a freshman doing that. The offensive line, when they gave him clean pockets and all that, he, for the most part, made good decisions, made the right read. And now I've put him in good positions by and large to make good decisions, hit open guys and all that. I mean, hey, this was, the silver lining of this game is that you learned, CJ Bailey doesn't flinch. He doesn't flinch. He just gets there and wet the bed or piss down his leg. He showed up. He showed up. Unfortunately, it is a full team effort. It's a full team effort. You know, in the same way that I talked about, the same way that I talked about Grace McCall earlier in terms of, hey, he was doing things that he was a net negative. I would say CJ Bailey was a net positive. On the flip side of that, I would say he was a net positive. But again, this is a full team thing. It's just good that the most important position is no longer a net negative. - I'll stick on the topic of net positives. There are few, but there are a couple we need to point out. Terrell Anderson, I thought looked pretty good. And yes, I understand it's garbage time and the weight of the situation is much different. But Terrell Anderson had a couple of catches. He broke off that one quick, moved back the outside, took that in for touchdown. I thought that was impressive. Hollywood Smothers finally got into the end zone. I was very happy to see him get himself one. That's the kid that's been through a lot here in the last couple of years. Finally gets into the end zone. Both overdue in general over the last two years, but also this season. I think we should definitely be seeing a whole lot more of Hollywood moving forward. Andrew Raphael impressed there in the second half. I thought the offense, shockingly enough was not so much of the issue. And I wish we could have seen a game where the defense kept it respectable, 'cause I would have liked to see how the offense could have functioned if they were in the game. And yes, I understand late in the game, garbage time, you gotta take everything with a grain of salt. But CJ Bailey for the most part, he outperformed my expectations for him in this game. And so I think there's some sort of a confidence to be taking that moving forward. But yeah, I mean, obviously it's hard for us to get on here and find some positives. There are so few, when you get on a stage like that one, I keep coming back to the idea that this was a game. If you wanted to be serious about your expectations and you wanted to be serious about being an ACC contention, you can't have Clemson put 59 on your head and just be relatively non-competitive. I would struggle to believe that Clemson will put 59 on anyone else the rest of the season. I think that's how blasphemous the fulfillment is one by instance of humans. And so when you not have to look from within and no time to feel sorry for yourself, you play a regular Illinois team at home this coming all Saturday. And then after that, right back in the ACC club. The toughness is something I had circled these last couple of weeks. Still absent. This team is not tough. This team is very undisciplined too. There is a shocking amount of just undisciplined, shoot yourself from the foot type of plays. You know, you get a Jordan Waters one for 15 plus called back for holding. You get multiple just back breaking penalties. I already talked about belt and getting thrown out or spitting on a play. Just undisciplined across the board. That's before you even get into the X's and O's from the defensive line, the linebacker, the secondary, some of the play today. Just brutal. The defense as a whole was a net. I was going to say zero. I think that'd be a lot. It was a net negative today. They looked absolutely well. - I want to say something there. I want to comment on something you said there. You said that there aren't many silver linings to be found, but one of them is all throughout the comments here. One of the net positives of this game, and this is going to sound facetious, but I'm being dead serious, is that folks have reset their expectations now. Folks now understand what this team is. And I'm not saying this is a net positive for NC State as in the team. I'm saying it is a net positive for if you are a fan, if you are somebody who watches and enjoys this team. What do you expect from this team when the only two power five teams that you've played so far this year? There has been a combined score of 110 to 45. What do you expect? What can you expect? Again, I said seven, eight wins. They're silly at this point. Everything breaks right. Everything goes good. You don't get hurt. That's a silly. Because again, consistency from the offensive line, not there, consistent leadership, not there. Our seniors are, I mean, ejected for spitting, and then even the guys who are playing, there are multiple guys that I'm looking at. Like, this isn't you. You haven't played like this in a year, would it? And so, I mean, hey, you've got to walk away from this game being very honest with yourself about where this team is right now. You have to walk away from this game with a firm grasp on it. And again, I'm not somebody that's trying to recruit people into a doom and groom clue. That's not true. That's not what I'm trying to do. But what I am trying to do is say, "Listen, we got to be honest with where this team is." And somebody told me, "Nobody switches their opinion faster than you." Well, if there's information that tells me to switch it, you know, if I believe my car is the fastest on the block and I drive behind that corner, and everybody else's car is worst of mine, then somebody comes over here with a Hellcat. Guess what just happened to my opinion on how fast my car is? You know, like, objectively speaking, this team needs to get up off the mat. You have been knocked on your ass twice. You have had two different teams come in and put belt to your behind, twice. At this point in time, you have to get up. You have to be tough, because again, there is not a single position group that I would say. When they're rolling out their best clip, they're not good. There's one that I would say is, man, even when they're rolling out their best clip, yeah, there's not one that I would say is bad. Every single position group has shown flashes of what they could be. It's time to lock in and get mentally tough and show consistency. And if not, I agree with everybody in the comments, play the young guys. If they continue to wear every ACC game, every game it gets a P4, looks terrible. Play the young guys. Go ahead, play the young guys, you know, at least build for the future. - I think that's one of the most damning, you know, points of evidence you can point to. You're four games in and everybody's like, "Well, we need to get all the young guys' experience." Get all the young guys rep. Let's see what the depth pieces look like. Four games into the season. I think that'll tell you a lot about what kind of football team your curtain will be at us. One more quick ad read before we get you out of here to enjoy the rest of the weekend. Second live ad is FanDul. You've heard us talk a lot about FanDul, but that's because it's America's number one sports book. Right now from September 22nd, which is tomorrow, all FanDul customers will get $5 and get a really free trial of NFL Sunday ticket from YouTube and YouTube TV. Then with the YouTube TV base plan, you'll be able to watch every regular season of Sunday afternoon out of market game. All you need is a Google account and a credit form of payment, and if you choose, you can cancel anytime. And on over to fandul.com and download America's number one sports book. - Well, we got a minute. I'm gonna buy that truck I've been wanting. - Wait, don't you need like weeks to shop for a car? - I don't. Carvana makes it super convenient to find exactly what I want. - Hold up. You're buying a car on your phone? Isn't that more of a laptop thing? - You can shop wherever you want. - I like to do my research, read reviews, compare models. Plus, Carvana has thousands of options. How'd you decide on that truck? - Because I like it. - Oh, that is a great reason. Go to Carvana.com to sell your car the convenient way. - All right, last couple minutes here. So we get you out of here. 59 to 35 loss, Clemson, just boat races and some state. It was never close. Hudson jumped out to that 28 nothing first quarter. And after that, you can already kind of smell the depth pieces having to come in here. We talked about C.J. Bailey's pretty much the lone bright spot outside of a couple of skill players as well. We did see Legacy Lex Thomas come into the game there at the very end. We threw that touchdown to Terrell Anderson. I saw a tweet by our guy, Shinity. He said that all three Thomas brothers have now scored a touchdown in the NC State uniform. That's probably the best thing you could read in all of NC State's work today. Outside of the basketball commitment landed by Coach Dean's as well. That's how, there you go. We're talking about a basketball commitment on a post game football field. That is how bad we currently feel about this performance today. I'm really not sure if you could phrase it any better than that. - Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, maybe we need Steve Smith to call us a basketball school to start the season off. - Wait a minute. - Maybe we need somebody to sit here and disrespect us, you know, to start the season off because, again, we're left with this feeling again. And here's something that I'm gonna tell y'all. And I mean this very genuinely. This was the quietest pre-production Grayson and I have ever had. - Very little chatter. - It was literally just like us looking at our phones, looking at whatever's going on, waiting to get ready for the show. And again, Grayson, I love each other. We could talk about paint drying and have a good time. You know what I mean? That's how we are. But when you come to a big game again, and you are blown out again, it is non-competitive again. All of the problems from old, rear their head again. It's not even like we're seeing new problems. It's not even like the only thing that I would say is the new problem is coverage bust on the back end, even when we're getting good pressure. That was kind of new. Everything else, the lack of tackling. Stop me if you've heard that one before about this thing. The offensive line not being good though. Stop me if you've heard that one about this team. The lack of seniors stepping up and showing, hey, listen, we got it. This is the way we're gonna go. Stop me if you've heard that one before. So I look at this team and I say, hey, this season is still up to you. The season is still up to you. Because those flashes, if we get guys to play to that flash or even close consistently, you don't have anybody in front of you that is more talented than you. But you have plenty of teams in front of you that are much more consistent than you. You have plenty of teams in front of you that are much more disciplined than you. You have plenty of teams in front of you that have the countenance to show up for every game. So it's on you. It's on this team to look in the mirror, take that second and say, what do I need to do to get better? Don't point around at the next guy, look at the guy next to you. Don't look at the guy who got beef or touchdown. Don't look at the guy who got thrown out. Don't look at the guy. Take a look in the mirror and say, what can I do to make this team better? Because again, I don't see a single position group, a single position group right now that I would say, hey, you're beyond reproach. Even when saying the past catches have been good, they have been. Today was probably their worst game. Lots of uncharacteristic mistakes. Hey, see, fumbling. This was probably not a great game for the past catches either. So I look around and I say, who can sit up here and say that they're beyond reproach? You can look down on everybody else on this team and say, I did my job, you do yours, who can say that? Not a soul. Not a single, the position groups are broken up by rooms. Not a single room on this team right now who say, hey, we're doing harder. Everybody else need to follow us. - Listen, I don't think you can say that about the coaches either. I mean, this is just a flat out harassment about coaching. And something else I'd noticed there, right before halftime, Dave Dorn was very clearly just trying to take away some time, get into the app and reset. Davos calling timeouts and making a conceited effort to score again. And I think that is extremely telling about the differences between an aggressive team mentality, a team that is on that elite level, they're gonna beat you in more ways than just one and they're gonna take it to you. That's where coincidence. As you saw, NC State is no workforce. And after this offseason, they had all the acquisitions and all the buzz and to have your two biggest games of the season. I know Kent and that Bob, that sentence gets to you, but realistically speaking here, you're two national state games and you get, I think combined in those two games, Tennessee and Clemson, you may have given up over a thousand combined yards. Just think about that for a second. 1,000 combined yards in those two games. That can't ever happen. You will never be taken seriously. You can't ever expect your program to reach the next level because those are the programs that are at that next level. And you see where we stack up currently against teams like that. So very humbling experience for the second time this season. We talked a lot about that Duke game last year at humbling that one was the same two questions that I post back then need to be posted at one. What kind of team do you wanna be? And two, what kind of season do you wanna have? Before those two questions get answered, you might see more results like we saw here today. That'll do it for us here. Our Saturday post game live feed. Thank you all so much for joining us. NC State gets obliterated at the hands of the Clemson Tigers 59 to 35. We'll have more for you on Monday. Our big picture takeaways may struggle to have to put some of those together 'cause there's not a whole lot of good. You can take out an embarrassing match up like this one. But we thank you all for joining us. Be sure to hit that like button. Drop all of your comments. I'm sure there'll be quite a few in the comment box. Smash that subscribe button if you have not already. And we'll see you right back here on Monday. And until then, go back. Go back. (upbeat music) A Prime members, you can listen to this lock-down podcast ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today. (upbeat music)
