It's time to choose Kind, the next chapter of the popular movie. Wonder is heading theaters this October. And I have two master movie makers sitting right here with me in the Homestead Studio. It's a story of kindness, it's a story of hope, it's a story of love, it's a story of what happens when we put our own selfish desires aside and decide to serve other people yet set in France back in World War II. I was just entranced with it. I was like, wow, this is a film, my kids, I have three boys that are 11, 15, 16, they got to see this. And this is CIA Contagious Influencers of America. I'm David Sam. So I'm so excited to have actor, writer, producer, director, and kingdom story company co-founder and CEO Kevin Downs with me here today. He brought along a friend, he brought along somebody who's just doing a remarkable job as the president and chief operating officer of kingdom story nets, Brandon Gregory. And when you get these two guys together, anything can happen because they're just amazing at what they do along with the Erwins. But back in 2017, they brought us a movie that just received incredible reviews, it sparked a movement all across the world. It won all kinds of awards. I'm talking about the movie Wonder and now there's the next chapter in this adventure. It's called Whitebird and it comes to theaters on October the 4th and it starts with a bully, Augie Pullen, who has to fit into this new school after being expelled and his grandmother, she visits and shares her heroic story of trying to escape Nazi occupied France during World War II. Yes, it's a period piece and it's so needed today, this piece. It's just the message is just so remarkable. So I can't wait for you to hear about this movie. I can't wait for you to hear from Kevin and Brandon regarding what everything they have going on over the kingdom story. One of my favorite, favorite places, one of my favorite movie makers, Kingdom Story, they've just been on a roll and brought us so many good films. So let's get right to it. First, let's take a look at the clip from Whitebird and then we'll get right to the interview. From the best-selling author of Wonder and the creators of Jesus Revolution comes Whitebird. I'm sure your father has told you stories about when I was a young girl. Hope can lift you. You say with us, okay. Courage can save you. You're the prettiest person I've ever met. Love can free you. When kindness can cost you your life, it becomes like a miracle. From the director of Finding Neverland, Whitebird, we did PG-13, maybe inappropriate for Children Under 13, in theaters October 4th, to get some showtimes at Whitebird.movie. Hey, welcome you guys. Welcome to the homestead. Good to be here. Thanks for having us. So, first of all, I know you guys have this great collaboration working together along with Andy Irwin. So tell me how you two do in VAC work together. Yeah, Brandon is the CEO and president of Kingdom Story Company. I'm the CEO and so Andy and I are making the movies. Brandon is running the marketing teams with Tiffany Long and kind of running the operations of our company, working with our studio partner, Lionsgate. And we strategize together on the slate of films that we release. We got four this year. They're all incredible. And how long have you two worked together? How long have you done each other? We've done each other ten, twelve years. Yeah, one month. So, tell me what's unique about Kingdom and what makes it different from all the other players in the space. It's a good question, Dave. What makes Kingdom unique is our hope is to release films that are literally about and give the audience a rush of hope. And so oftentimes we see movies that are released today, they're depressing. They're just not films that you want to spend an hour and a half. You go back into the theater and you say, "Well, I wish I had that hour and a half back." And so, we're trying to make entertaining films, but also films that are high quality, that obviously lean into the faith that we believe, our faith in Jesus Christ. And true stories that have a rush of hope. And so, you'll see that a lot. Once in a while, we have successful book properties. So, one of our films this year, Best Christmas Pageant Ever, which comes out November 8th, is based on a best-selling book. Great film, really great film. So, excited about that. And I think we also, you know, we are involved different than other producers from the very earliest stages of development through releasing the film. And so, a lot of times a movie will be made and then it'll be turned over to the studio. But we're in it from the very beginning to the second that a ticket by consumer. And let's talk about the audience that you target and the significance of that audience and what is unique about it. Yeah, the audience we target is really middle America. I mean, I think what's unique about it is so much of our country is the land between the coasts and, you know what, they go to movies. You know, as we saw with the success of Sound of Freedom, which just blew everybody away. And some of our films, our past films, I can only imagine Jesus' Revolution, which both overperformed significantly at the box office. And so, Holly would take a notice of that. Also, you got to make good films at the end of the day. And so, we're proud that all of our films, especially recently, are getting really critically reviewed in a positive light. Not that that's the goal, per se, that people do, you know, they check on the review sites to see, you know, what do reviews think, critics think of these movies. And to be able to walk that tightrope is important to us because you want to make entertaining content first and foremost that people want to actually spend their money and take the time to come see in the theater. I was shocked the other day I went to your film and then we got popcorn and, what, 50 bucks, right? For popcorn and drinks. And then I think, man, if we had kids, that'd be what, I don't know what they charge for babysitter these days, what, 15 bucks? I don't know, maybe 20? For my family of five, it's now $140 or so to go to the theater. And I just sit there and I go, I'd say two thirds of the films I see in the theater, I'm like, why isn't this streaming? Why isn't this part of somebody on Netflix? So, what makes a film worth that $100, $140, giving up a Friday night and something that you have to see in a theatrical setting as opposed to at home? How do you guys look at, how do you separate the men from the boys, I just want to speak? We are trying to pick stories that we visualize as events. And so, if you can visualize it as an event and set it up as an event, so that's not just about, hey, I'm going to go check out a movie, but it's something I got to invite my friends, family, people, colleagues, people that I talk to all the time. And that makes it worth the evening, and obviously, as you know, in our business, the success of our films is based on repeat business at the movie theater. And so, we're making movies that people want to revisit time and time again and not go, okay, I was okay, I wouldn't see it again, but that was okay. So, that didn't work for us. I mean, we've got to actually, they want to actually come back and bring friends and say, you've got to see this because this is something to talk about. And we talk about a lot the communal experience of movie going, you know, people have home theaters, we're sitting, you know, in years right now that are beautiful, that you can, you know, great screens, great projection, great sound. But you can't replicate that experience of watching a movie with 300 other strangers. And so, our films are really made to be experienced together to fill that, that, you know, that emotion in the room, to laugh, to cry together, and then to leave the theater and talk about it together. So, that communal experience is something we believe deeply in and sort of have that lens that we look through on every one of our films that we're developing. Isn't it an experience that people have to see now, they have to see in the theater and they have to see together? Yeah, and I think you're seeing the growth of our company, which means that the audience really wants the movies that we're putting out. So, we would put out one movie every couple years. This year, we're releasing four nationwide, you know, through Lionsgate. Next year, there's already two, there's Sladed One Lionsgate, One Amazon. And so, I think that's a testament of the work that we're putting in. And also that audiences do want to show up, you know, they don't just want to wait per se for the films that we're creating, the films that we put out there. And we're trying to be very specific at the stories that we select, that's hard. Because sometimes it's friends, "Hey, I got a great idea," and you listen, "I don't think it's a great idea." You know, like you said, it sounds like a streaming movie. And so, if it feels like a streaming movie, we don't want to put the time into it. If we don't know how to sell a film, we don't bring it on. And I think that also, you know, going back to your other question, it's, you know, there's a lot of space between California and New York. And ultimately, that audience just wants to see a reflection of themselves on screen. And that can take the shape of many different types of stories. And so, when you look at our slate this year, you know, for movies like "Unsung Hero," which is a music biopic to ordinary angels, to white bird, to best Christmas. But these are, it's a wide, you know, wide scope of storytelling. But the audience deserves that. And ultimately, they want to go and just see a reflection of their lives and their worldview in the theater. So as far as "White Bird" is concerned, first of all, give me an overview of what that is and why you all decided to go with that. Yeah, "White Bird" is set in the world of the film "Wonder," which was hugely popular, wildly successful. And, you know, it's a period piece, so it's set during World War II, you know, back in France. Great cast, Helen Mirren does such a great job. She's actually the narrator throughout the whole thing. And then you see a couple of the return actors from the film "Wonder." But it's a story of kindness, it's a story of hope, it's a story of love, it's a story of what happens when we put our own selfish desires. And selfish desires aside and decide to serve other people yet set in, you know, in France back in World War II. I was just entranced with it. I was like, wow, this is a film, my fans, my kids, I have three boys that are 11, 15, 16, they got to see this because it will change them. And, hi, that's the thing, we tried to. So "Lion's Gate" brought this film to us. We were not on set when it was produced and made, incredible director Mark Forrester made it, he's done a lot of high-profile films. And they said, hey, we think this film will resonate with your audience. And so we watched it, and unanimously, everybody was just in tears as we all watched it as a company. And literally we're like, okay, we've got to be a part of this because people need to know about this, especially what we're going through as a nation right now. So that's October 4th, Whitebird. And, I mean, really, it's in the most difficult of times you're called to love your neighbor. And what better message do we need as a country and a world right now than that and a reminder for that? With everything that we've gone through and seem to be continuing to go through as a country, does that change up your slate? Does that change up your thinking on what, I mean, I know, for example, on programming, we sit around here and have programming meetings and think about, what are we going to program in November? Because there are going to be a lot of happy people and a lot of not-so-happy people any way you cut it. And we're always the place for contagious encouragement and an oasis from all the noise. But yeah, we want to give people that sort of feel good, felt in need, that comfort that they're looking for. So how do you all program a year in advance? I'm sure you look at 2025 differently than you would have in 2019. That's sometimes two years, right? And so it is hard to try and figure out, okay, what's our country going to be going through in this movie? In Jesus' Revolution, when we released that, that was difficult. That movie was mounted four weeks away from starting, then COVID hit, we shut it down. And actually, when Lionsgate came back and asked us, "Hey, we should revisit Jesus' revolution." We were at McCorkle and we changed directors. Brent McCorkle, John Irwin, came on to direct the film and actually did a complete rewrite from the script. We were four weeks away from starting because we believe that what the nation is going through right now is changed. It's totally changed. People are being told to, at that time, stay in their homes. You can't come out. You got to do this. You got to do that. And so we adapted the script to what we believed would be happening almost too much because right before the movie came out, there were these revivals that were breaking out in college campuses and we are actually getting blamed for those things happening. I'm like, "I wish we were that smart, but we're not sure we were going to blame." So it's hard to answer your questions very difficult to forecast, but that one was one where we actually had to try our best at what would happen. And I think it worked out really well. For our films this year, "Christmas Pageant," we've been working on for about four years with Dallas Jenkins, who does the chosen. And so that one's just a, you know, it's unlike any film that we've ever done. It's just a feel-good family. I mean, I wouldn't say even it's a comedy because it's going to make you cry. It makes me cry every time I've seen it 50 times so far in post-production. But we've never had a film that's so inclusive to the entire family. So like kids from four, five, six, seven, 12, 15 are going to love the film because most of the cast are these kids and they're brilliant. And yet then the film itself is a play of the Nativity Story, this church doing a play of the Nativity Story. That's the entire movie and it's beautiful. Dallas does such a great job in bringing this story to life. So I'm proud of it. November 8th, theaters everywhere. You guys will be hearing about it a lot. The film is really good. I think light keep the faith. You know, it's all of our movies. We want them to encourage the uplift, to inspire, to be a unifying experience in the theater. And especially in this election season with both white bird and Christmas patch up. We hope that it's a place to go and escape and be encouraged with your family in the midst of all the noise. That's great. And from a marketing perspective, in order to reach an audience these days, I mean, let's face it. We have so many, so much distracting us. There's so much clutter in the mind. There's so many things wanting us, wanting our attention. In this environment, how has the game changed when it comes to marketing your films? To get people's attention in the first place. It's a lot of grassroots. And so we have a great partner in Lionsgate. We have a national, more traditional marketing strategy. But at the end of the day, it comes down to just time. And our audience, a big portion of which is the church, letting them know about the films that are coming, giving them an inside look at it, letting them inform us on how they can be used as a tool for them. And so that's really just time. It's time and consistency of those relationships. And we think about that from the very beginning when we're developing an idea. Is this an idea that our core audience, that the church, that they need, that they want and that they'll be able to use as a tool? No, Kevin, at heart, you're really an actor, right? I'm a number of things. Sure. I actually just saw you in a cameo when the guy's not dead. You never know where I'm going to pop up, so that is for sure. I've never seen anybody that can wear multiple hats so effectively. And it's funny. It's Kevin. So, when you were going back, when you were growing up and you were thinking about this, first of all, how did you get in acting? Well, acting was my first love. So I was acting in high school plays, and then actually my first major in college was theatre. And so I was acting through my third year of college before I decided, hmm, my heart was to actually make faith-based films, evangelical films. This is back in the early 90s. And myself and David Wyatt, we were buddies, and we decided just to write a script together and figure out how to get it made and get it sold. And that's literally how the producing careers of both of us started. And never in a million years did I think that I'd be working with this dude who's smart as a whip. And we'd be figuring out movie slates for a major studio in Hollywood that is literally, I mean, a Christmas pageant, heavy on church related content to even Whitebird, which is a little bit of the opposite of that. There's nothing offensive in Whitebird at all. My kids are going to watch it, but it's definitely a pro-Israel movie, which is very cool in this time period, and pro-kindness, and just these themes that our churches need so desperately. So to be able to have a studio that once the movies that we make, I think, is such a gift and a blessing, never did I think. I thought, man, if I could make my career as an actor and support my family, that would be amazing. I didn't think it would ever go this direction. So it's great, and I act once in a while when I have a moment, but the biggest thing for me is the time. I don't have weeks to give, and that makes it really difficult. I've certainly been asked, hey, can you come and do this part in this movie? And my first question always is, how much time do I need to give, and if it's more than a week, I can't do it. Mine would have been how much do I make? So the backdrop of this movie is World War II, and why is that relevant to what's going on today? You start, go for it. That's a great question. I think that there is a lot of anti-Semitism that's happening today, and there's also today we're very fractured as a nation, as a world in a lot of ways. And finding things to fight on, and we forget about the humanity of it all. And again, what we feel biblically, and certainly what we try and model as a company in our films is this idea of loving your neighbor. We're called to love our neighbor. And this movie is a time period that was not that long ago, and you're introduced and dropped into this beautiful story about the power of kindness and the power of loving your neighbor. I think that's something that is incredibly relevant today that we need to be reminded of as a body of Christ, as a nation, as a world, just that we are to love on each other. And so we love that the movie showcases that in this really powerful way. Again, at a time in history, though it seems far removed, it was not that long ago. Yeah, I think as you watch the film, there actually are similarities in the backdrop, where so many Americans today are, especially in this election year, we're just a news cycle, just as they're trying to manipulate you into what you're thinking. That's my opinion. They do a really good job of it. And the backdrop back then was a world in crisis, not just countries, but literally a world in crisis where people were literally fearful of their lives. Especially the Jewish people. And so, you know, in today's, you know, people don't know who's going to win the election. There's a lot of fear going on, a lot of fear-based motivation going on by the powers that be in media and politics and whatnot. And so you have some of those similarities. Whereas what can we do that now of a sudden breaks those barriers of politics and to be able to better enhance humanity and just people in general? Like, what can we do to change that? What do we have the power to do to change that? And that is selflessly love one another, no matter what their beliefs are, no matter what their political leaning is. There are things that we can do as a person to be able to impact our culture, our society, our neighborhoods, our communities. Amen. Why has Lionsgate been such a good partner? What is it about? Because we hear all these wild things about Hollywood and I lived out there for 30 years, I'd say about 80% of them are true. But the reality is that every once in a while you find a good one and you guys seem to have found that in Lionsgate. I had a similar experience back in the day. You got to be careful who you pick as partners. But what makes Lionsgate a good partner for a kingdom? I'm going to tell you this story. I told this story the other day to a very famous actor because they asked the same question. I'm at a dinner and I told this story and I said, you know, this is so rare today's climate. But when we did the first test screening on Jesus Revolution, it was at a theater in Southern California. For those that don't know, studios, no matter what the demographic is, they'll do test screenings to see how the film can get better. Or if they should just shelve the film and if audiences are reacting to it. And so we did it and myself and the co-director Brent McCorkle went out there and you're kind of nervous a little bit. But although we do our own little ones, so we kind of know the audience is going to respond positively, but we don't know to what degree. And I remember coming out of the test screening and of course the audience, it was like a rock concert like you never seen before. There were Jesus signs. You never see that because they were just anticipating it so well. But the audience responded in such a way to the test screening and then we go outside and you get the results in about three or four minutes because the company that hosts it has these iPads under every seat. And it's done very quickly. And we saw the scores that came in and the comments and it was incredible of course. And the head of Lionsgate was there. There were about 15 Lionsgate executives that were present to watch this. And I'll never forget this moment. This is mind-blowing to me. He goes, you know, you're going to get some notes from executives in our studio in the next couple of days. And based on what I witnessed tonight, I don't want you to listen to any of them. In fact, if you don't want to, you shouldn't change a thing about what this movie is because this movie represents your faith in a way I've never seen before. And we looked at each other, we were like, did that just happen? Does this just happen right now? Crazy, crazy stuff. And so that makes Lionsgate a good partner, right? When you get that so hard, you can't manufacture comments like that because a test screening, as you know, can dictate where your movie goes. And so that really set the stage for Jesus revolution to be a really significant release because we had their full support at that moment and that was exciting. So, you know, when our Kingdom Story Company, we've been with Lionsgate for seven years and when our deal was up, which is like right now, the three of us, me and Andy and Brandon, we looked at each other and we had other studios that were interested. And we asked that question that you just asked me and that informed us of the decision that we should make. And so we talked to Lionsgate and they're like, we want you for three more years and we got to deal really quickly. And so we'll be with them for three more years. So it'll be 10 years from our first deal that these guys are behind us and releasing movies on over 2000 screens wide, multiple movies a year. And that's something that, you know, we're really fortunate, we're grateful, we're blessed to be able to be in this position. So what is it that you look for in a film? When somebody pitches you, you said that sometimes friends tell you something and you have that look on your face like what are you talking about? But what are the ingredients that you look for in a film? Yeah, I mean, in a quick nutshell, it's true stories that showcase the power of the gospel in various different ways. But it can also be in a best-selling book like Christmas Pageant coming up, but all of our films in our history have been true stories that showcase the power of the gospel. Everything that we're working on that's coming forth, aside from Christmas Pageant, is one of those things. And I think why that is is because people resonate with true stories so well. That's why Hollywood does it right with other genres and other audience groups because people really connect with true stories in a way that gets them to want to get out of their home. To buy a movie ticket and whatnot. They also can make for really great films. I mean, part of our problem is that the true stories that we end up picking, and I'll give, I can only imagine as an example, some of the true elements are so incredulous that you have to take it out. And people often will ask, "Oh, you added this or that. You added those things in to make it so unbelievable." I'm like, "Actually no. If we had told the real story, you wouldn't have believed it." I mean, if we had told all of the ingredients of the real story, you just wouldn't have believed it. So you oftentimes have to kind of not dumb it down. I don't know if that's the word, but make it work also to cram it into an hour and a half. And making sure that we can eventize it, that we can see a path where the final version of that story being captured is something that's worthy of people getting out of their home and getting a babysitter. And the time and energy and money it costs to go to the movie, we want to make sure that those stories are stories that have earned the right to be on that large canvas that is the movie screen. What has been the glue that has helped keep it all together, Kevin? When you're faced with certain obstacles in life, how have you been able to overcome those life challenges? Well, I think God is at the center of it all. I mean, to me, it goes back to the decision that, you know, I could say I made it, but really God made it for me as a 24-year-old, actually a 22-year-old kid in Hollywood, California, who gets cast in this unknown movie. When I go to an open casting call, there's 200 high schoolers there that look like high schoolers, plus myself, plus David White, and the two of us get cast as the lead roles in this film that was a pure evangelism film for youth for Christ. And when I saw the power of what that movie could do to young kids, to audiences, high schoolers, I was like, "Okay, I'm in. This is what I want to do for the rest of my life." And God was at the center of that decision. Like, you know, it's cool to be in McDonald's commercials and TV shows and whatnot, and people kind of recognize you, but you don't have the ongoing kind of life-changing and eternal impact, because all the time, people are coming up to me. I mean, we were at a theater in South Dallas, Texas yesterday, two days ago, just visiting some theater executives, and I'm in the lobby. This is like at noon, and there's not a lot of people that are visiting theaters at noon watching movies, but there was one family that was about 12 of them. They had kids, and I'm just standing there 'cause we're getting ready to go, and this teenager comes up to me and says, "Hey, are you Kevin Downs?" And I'm like, I'm kind of looking around seeing if somebody put him up to it, and I'm like, "Yeah." He goes, "You know, I love all your films from Woodlawn to Courageous. Can I just get a picture with you?" And so, you could tell in his eyes what an impact the movies that I had been a part of made in his young life and his family's life, and to be able to be a part of that in some small way, that's the reason to do it. You don't get that by doing mainstream stuff, although now I feel like our stuff is mainstream, so that's kind of the wrong word to use. See, when somebody comes up to me and says, "Are you David Sam?" So I say, "No," because last time they did it, the guy took an envelope out and said, "You've been served." I was hopeful that a 15-year-old wouldn't be doing that, but I like it. Let's talk about the power of prayer and how you guys put that to work in your decision-making and in running the company. Yeah, you know what? I'll start, but I do want Brandon to pipe in here. Making movies and releasing them is hard. It is hard. I mean, living life is hard, right? Because we go through health challenges, we go through family challenges and this and that. And I can't imagine doing what we're doing without prayer being at the center of those decisions, because God is not in the middle of what we're doing. Oftentimes we'll say, "Hey, let's go down this road." And then all of a sudden the door slams shut, like, "Okay, yeah, that was a bad idea. That was my idea. That didn't work." And so the Kendrick Brothers are really good at it. I mean, they're like, "It's not a God idea. We don't want to do it." I mean, they're perfect at it, almost. And I'm not so much, but we try to make prayer at the center of our decisions, because we do want to, first of all, please God with the decisions that we make in our life, but also serve our audience. Because we're making movies, not for ourselves, because that would be pointless, but we're making movies for the audience that we serve. And they want to see their faith and their values put up there on the screens that they say, "Hey, that's like me. I can relate to this in this moment." And we cheer on other filmmakers, you know, the Forged by the Kendrick Brothers out right now, cheering them on as much as I can. I think it's a powerful movie. I think it's the best movie I told them. I say, "You know, I might be biased because I was an actor in one of your films, but I think this is your best cast." I really do. Your cast is so impactful. My family's been talking about this movie for several days. That's what you want. That's when you're making films. And so they got to that position with that film, because prayer was at the center of the decisions they make. So we try to do that and model that as a company. They've been good models for us as a company, which is one of the reasons why I want to keep the friendship so alive with them, is because they're things that I would love to model that I see them do as a company as well as the brothers. So good. Yeah, and we, you know, it's, as Kevin said, it's hard. It's, you know, it's hard daily. It's hard when you're looking at building a slate, releasing a movie. And the human in us, a lot of times you want to, you know, you get in front of that and you're like, "Well, I got it. It's by my work that this is going to get done." And you have to remind yourself, we, first of all, we pinch ourselves all the time that we have the blessing to be able to do this. But also reminding ourselves that, "Hey, look, God's hand has clearly been on what we're doing because we put him first and we ask him to lead." And sometimes you need that reminder. We're, I mean, such a blessing to have a team. We're about 14 people that are on staff with us that are all incredible people. And we all have good days and bad days. And that's when somebody steps up and they encourage and they remind Kevin and I both or we do it to each other. And just, "Hey man, God's hand is on this. Let's, you know, let's take it to him." And so to have a community that we've built of people that encourage and love each other and are constantly reminding each other that the purpose of our work is to showcase the power of the gospel is really a blessing. Let's talk about finding self-worth in your identity in God. What does it mean to stand firm in your faith and recognize your inherent value? Stand firm in your faith and recognize your inherent value. That is interesting. You know, I have a hard time recognizing value, self-value per se. So that's not something I necessarily think about too much for me. It's hard enough juggling all the things in my life with my family, my kids and my wife and work and making sure that the balance is there properly. Because if one gets out of whack, they all get out of whack. And so, and maybe that's my most significant value is as a father, you know, in the home and being a leader in the home in that way. And so maybe that's where the value is. You know, with the other part of your question, you know, I'm getting to an age and you're going to laugh. It's like, you're not old, but it's like, you know, you start thinking about, okay, how can I pass this off to the next generation of what I'm doing? Because I don't want to wait until I'm 70 when I can barely, you know, 80 when I can barely move or whatever the number is because doing this is hard. I'm already thinking about that because making movies is hard because you go on the road, you've got to be on the road for several months. You're with production and you're away from your family. So there's sacrifices that go on. And so now, you know, it's like, what can I do to pass this off to the next generation? So a lot of my thought, um, when Brandon and I talk about it, like, what do we do to be able to make decisions that will impact that? And so at Kingdom Story Company, we actually have every year we do internships throughout the summer, which is really great to be able to see these young kids come in. Sometimes some of them stick and want a job after college, and so we hired some that are excelling and advancing in their careers, and that actually excites me. So I'm like, okay, this is working because you don't become a movie producer by osmosis or overnight. It's going to take experience and never give up attitude to know that, you know, things are going to get tough. And as I've told this speech a number of times, whereas if God has called you to do this, you will know. You will just know whether in the midst of struggle and trial and error, if you want to quit, then God's not called you to do this. I mean, you should probably go do something else. But if you want, if you're like, oh, no, this trial is only going to make me better in my 20s, which was how much like I was deter, my brother and I, we were determined to figure this out. No idea what, I mean, it might have been pure stupidity on our part, but there was a never give up attitude. It worked out. It had never give up attitude of, I mean, literally the first movie that we made, I'm going door to door to brick and mortar Christian bookstores up and down the state of California saying VHS copies saying, I will give you my movie for free if it sells, I will come back and collect. And that was the only way, because there was, all it was in the bookstores were cartoons, maybe some veggie tales. There were no sections of movies, none of that stuff. And, and so you have to have some sort of vision and in the midst of failure, because for every 10 bookstores, I might have gotten one. Yes, even though I was offering to give it to them, they were like, well, who makes movies? I can't be. I mean, they just didn't do it. And so from that standpoint, reaching the next generation, I think is, is very important for us as a company and the decisions that we make and that feeds into the self value, in my opinion. And encouraging that younger generation, like he said with interns, with our staff, we have a young staff, with our children. You know, I have two young girls, Kevin has three boys, reminding them that their value, as we have to remind ourselves, is not in what the world tells them it's in. I think in today, the technological world we're living in, every phone, you're constantly reminded of what could be a lack of value that you have, because you're comparing yourself to everybody else on the planet. And so being able to remind, you know, again, anybody that's on our team or families, that obviously their value, their self worth is their daughter or son of the most I King. And that's, you know, it's not on who they're comparing themselves to on Instagram or Facebook. Kevin, you mentioned numerous times your first film. What was that? So movie called The Moment After. So this is before there was a left behind. We literally, what it was, was David and I, we were acting in a movie for a director, producer named Rich Cristiano. He's still around today. That movie was called End of the Harvest. We did not produce that movie. But it was an End Times movie. And so Rich was the one that encouraged us, Hey, you guys should actually, you guys are smart. You guys should actually go make your own movies. And we're like, really? What is that? And so on the plane ride home from like the little mini premiere that he had of End of the Harvest, we decided let's do another End Times movie. And what if we were the stars of it, which was really our motivation was to cast ourselves. And let's just start it, like the moment after the rapture hits, like, and then that was it. And so neither one of us had heard a left behind. And so we were these junior FBI agents and the movie starts the moment after the rapture and we're tasked with figuring out what happened to all these missing people. But we didn't realize where these were all these End Times ministries that just would eat it alive. I had no idea. But, but I remember every single day, myself and the director's wife, West Llewellyn, Amanda Llewellyn and myself wrote the script. And every day before we'd write, I'm not a writer, which is why you don't see me writing scripts. We would get our knees and we would pray that God would give us the information and the knowledge to be able to figure out how to write this script. It was every single day for about three months until that script got finished. And that's how we approached making films because we did not know none of us went to film school. We didn't know what we were doing. But it was a beautiful experience because it was like literally getting thrown into the fire of this is how you make a film. And the thing that blew my mind about that film now looking back after 30-something films and 20-something years later, the lives that were changed on that set are about 18 people. They were multiple people just because of the script writing and then having to hear this dialogue over and over again that were radically changed just from the process of this 19-day shoot of this very overtly evangelistic film. And that has stuck with me forever. And it was like a spark of some gasoline of encouragement. Like, you know what? I mean, I was sick the first four days of filming. I had 103 fever and I'm supposed to be on camera and I'm also doing catering and I'm doing that five transportation and doing five different jobs. I could not have done that today having 103 fever, but you power through it. You get through it and you realize that God's going to give you these moments, these nuggets of encouragement that you want your on the right path. You're doing the right thing. Keep going. So it seems like the one thing that God gave you, it's a big part of your armor, is the ability to kind of push past fear. You don't seem to have a whole lot of fear in your life. Wow, what is fear? I mean, I think what fear is to some people might be different to others. But that is an interesting. I never, I don't know if I've ever been posed that question before. People would look at what we did early on when there was no Christian film industry. Actually, there was a little one, right? They were doing library movies or a Billy Graham every couple of years would do one for CBS. You buy out the broadcast and whatever. And so, but there wasn't. I mean, Hollywood wasn't paying any attention to this. And so to be able to say, okay, we're going to figure out how. And Dave and I, White Knight, showed a story all the time. I mean, there was a night where we're 22 years old. We're sitting out on his front porch looking up at the stars in Van Nuys, California. And I remember saying to him, one day, you and I are going to be making films that studios in Hollywood are going to release in theaters all over the country. It's not something I put up on my wall. It was just a, it was just like a two little dreamers. Is it 22? Like, let's figure it out type of a thing. And then you flash forward and he co-founded Pure Flix with God's Not Dead and all the work that we've done with. I can only imagine in Jesus revolution in our slate of films. Only God gets the credit for how that, because we're not smart, literally not smart enough to be able to pull this off on our own. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. It is so difficult to be able to make a film in an R's case market and release a film that it takes God to come alongside in the midst of trial and error and frustration and some films losing money and some films making money and going, you know what? You're on the right path. Keep going. Don't let this trial slow you down and because we've had thoughts. I mean, look, after Woodlawn came out, the Erwin brothers and myself, I remember thinking they were ready to quit. We were developing. I can only imagine. They were like, it was too hard. We couldn't figure out the script. The script was not coming together. At that moment, I can remember being out in my front yard in Santa Ana, California and giving the pep talk of my life. Going, you know what? God has brought us this far. Woodlawn didn't quite, the movie is fantastic, but the finances didn't quite work out for it. We can't give up. I can only imagine as a movie, we will figure this out, but we have to keep going. We can't give up. Because John was like, we should just go get a job of Starbucks. This is too hard. And I'm like, we can't give up. There's no way. But if I can only imagine didn't work, I don't think I'd still be doing this because we were at the end of our rope or Woodson. Like, I don't know. And then all of a sudden, popcorn, pop, pop, pop. You start to see these films succeed. God's not dead. And these other films, the Devon Franklin was putting out. Whether it was Heaven is For Real and Roman Mark were putting out the Bible stories and whatnot. And that was one that was like, okay, they just took a TV show and wrapped it into it the actual release. We can do this. And so they wouldn't imagine it that changed everything. Because then, you know, people ask me, like, hey, you know, you guys overnight, you got Hollywood, you know, does this and that. They're like, no, no, no. You don't understand. We had to go raise money for, I can only imagine. We raised the marketing money. We raised the production money. We had to prove that there's an audience that wants to see the movie that we want to make. And then Hollywood came calling. Because if you don't know who your audience is for the movies that you make, you probably shouldn't make that movie unless you're being commissioned to make that movie and you're like a work for a higher situation. But if you don't know who your audience is or you don't have a plan for that audience, probably not a great idea to get your movie made because that's the only way to be able to break through those barriers and convince studios that, you know what, these guys have an audience. No different than A-list actors, right? I mean, they're hired because of their social media feed and whatnot. We're in the same boat. We're proving to Hollywood that there is an audience that wants to go and see our films. Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for stopping by the Homestead. And I wish you much success with this release. Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. Thanks again, Brandon. Thanks for Kevin for stopping by the Homestead. I'm just so delighted that they could take time out of their busy day to stop by here and thank you to all the folks at Kingdom Story for all the wonderful, wonderful work you do. Whitebird hits theaters on October 4th. Head on over to whitebird.movie to get your tickets in advance. And be sure to tell all your friends. This is a great, great, great film. And I know you're going to really enjoy it. And I want to thank you too for stopping by and supporting us with this podcast. You know, we're just every week. It's just the guests. I just can't tell you. I so appreciate our staff for bringing on some of the best, some of the finest and some of the folks who are just lifting our spirits and lifting up all the wonderful projects that are coming to our eyes, our ears, our, you know, it's amazing when you really think about it. You know, there's so many thousands of channels now, but there's just so many wonderful, inspiring projects that we have an opportunity to support these days. So please do support both Christian and inspirational filmmakers like it, Kingdom Story. Okay. And also, I got to lift up the folks at Lionsgate in Hollywood for also, also getting behind these projects and supporting us. So, thank you so much. I'm David Sams and this has been CIA Contagious Influencers of America, the podcast from the producers of the number one syndicated faith based show at all of America. And that is keep the faith. Check out our website at KeepTheFaith.com, where you're going to find all kinds of goodies to to watch and listen to. And, of course, to listen to all of the podcast that we've done for Contagious Influencers, you can go to ContagiousInfluencers.com Until next time, go out there and live that life and living color because it sure is. Heck, a lot more interesting than living it in black and white. I'll see you next time. See you next time. [Music]
