Hey Leo, hi Stephen, I mentioned off Mike that I pulled a muscle in my hip. And so I've been pretty much on the couch for two days straight. Fun times. What's also interesting is that we both felt that we wanted to put a little bit more effort into our terrifier to episode. So not only have I been on the couch for two days, but I've been watching terrifier to over and over and over again for two days. I reiterate, good times. I think I'm in a very dark place right now. You might be. Yeah, I think that's what depression looks like. Yeah, someone who knows fair enough. I just have to keep my leg elevated and I can't really move a lot. So once the movie stops and I still have writing to do in the script, I just like, well, let's just watch it again. It just got this repetitive cycle. I fell asleep to it once. I'm sure. Right around that alley bedroom scene. Yeah, yeah, that nondescript who cares. It doesn't mean much to the movie. Yeah. Yeah, so slow that old chestnut. All right, everybody. Welcome to spoils of horror. My name is Steven. I am Leo. And this is episode number one hundred and forty five terrifier to part two. We're an excellent day for an exercise. Thank God. Look at me, James. It's all for you. I'm our number one fan. I hope they are watching there, see, there, see, and they don't know. Pretty minds. You know, it's not scary. I'm scared to close my eyes. I'm scared to open up. Whatever you do. Don't fall asleep. Hi, everybody. We understand that not everyone is as big of a fan of a movie like Terrifier 2 as me and Leo are. If you've gone on Reddit, you've maybe read that there are people that fucking hate this movie. People who have no sensibility, no class, no shame, pearl clutchers, people who have no taste. But I just want to dedicate this episode to two people that have been in our corner and in art the clown's corner from the very beginning. And that would be Nate and Charlie from Give Me Back My Action Movies. Two shining beacons of the community, each one of them, a star among men. Shining example for the rest of us of how you can not only enjoy something, but truly treasure it, put it on a pedestal and worship it as a god. Really the biggest Terrifier 2 fans and Terrifier 1 all Hallows Eve. Anything art the clown, they have the bed sets and the pillowcases and the cereal boxes. The long body pillowcases, if you get my meaning, wink, wink. Sounds like you mean the ones you can fuck. That's the ones I mean, yes. Oh, okay, great, great. I've got a couple of answers. I was going for subtlety, but you know, whatever. Always writing different articles about the secret meaning of these movies and just really being big defenders of art the clown. I don't think I've ever heard two people love a thing more than these two people love this movie, this character and this entire franchise. They have between the two of them independently funded the third film. Just to make sure that it would go into production proper. Little known fact, they're the biggest Kickstarter. They both, that was meant to be a secret. They both did the $50,000 scene. So you know in the Terrifier 3 trailer, you know, it shows that couple like fucking in the shower. They have earned themselves to be in the showers right next door. That's right. You don't get to see them through the glass, but they're there giggling the whole time. It's very erotic, I'm sure. At least for the two of them. Yes, they're not going to include it in the film. It got too steamy. But anyway, if you want to share with them your biggest memories of this franchise and every single thing that you love about art the clown, please email them at gmbmam@al.com. And don't forget to tell them how much you love the Amityville horror too. I cannot stress enough how detailed you need to be in your description of love and adoration for them loving this movie. It's so important. They mean so much to them. They give so much back to the community already. Let's give them a little. And feel free to share this on social media as well. After a heartfelt conversation with Barbara, Sienna joins her friend Brooke at a local Halloween party. They grab drinks, laugh and dance while unknown to our hero, they're high on Molly. Back at Ellie's house, Art uses the severed head of his victim as a candy bowl for local children trick or treating. It's pretty funny. Barbara is having trouble with Jonathan. He's trying to convince her that his father was having premonitions about art the clown. Things escalate. She destroys the sketchbook, Jonathan calls her a bitch, Barbara slaps him, and Jonathan runs away. She walks into the kitchen, pours herself a drink, and begins to cry. Barbara hears the noise in the garage. Her car is covered in toilet paper shaving cream and smashed pumpkins. She's furious, thinking Jonathan destroyed her car. She calls Sienna and has a touching moment with her daughter before hanging up the phone. Moments later, Art the Clown uses a small shotgun to blow her brains out. Barbara heard a noise outside, and the garage goes out there to find the car covered in all sorts of nonsense. But it could be worse. She could have gone out there and found it with CPS. There were a couple of characters that we didn't really cover in the previous episode. We saved them on purpose. We didn't talk much about Sienna, we didn't talk much about Brooke. And we only covered Barbara briefly because you had some things that you wanted to say about her yelling. And I had an emphatic moment when I said that I love all the women in this movie yelling at people. I have heard a lot of people say that they don't like this character. And boy, oh boy, do I disagree with them. I really like her. And her death is the one that gets me the most. I like her arc. I think her character is interesting. But quite frankly, she is a lot more closely aligned to mothers that I knew growing up than say the mom and poltergeist. I love poltergeist, don't get me wrong. But those kind of perfect suburban moms were not moms I knew. I knew moms like this who swore and screamed and yelled. And yet were thought of by everyone as being kind of like a superhero. How many people refer to Barbara as kind of a superhero in this movie? I genuinely don't know how many do they. A couple. A couple of her friends will be like, wow, Barbara's a real superhero. Yeah, Barbara's really cool. Like they refer to her in this really positive way. And Jonathan and Sienna clearly love their mom a lot. That much is true, yes. I think you saying that is exactly my sticking point to this. What I said in the first episode where I see it now with fresh eyes in a different perspective in who and how she is. And again, can totally relate to this mom versus happy go lucky soccer mom who has not a caroling world blah, blah, blah. This is a more realistic person to the single mothers in my social world growing up. Yeah, mother, other people's mothers who were just struggling trying to get by doing the best they can with a pile of children and no income to speak of. Through that, I can understand where she's so stressed out and where she gets short fused. I don't really love the idea that right out of the gate from the moment we meet her until the moment she becomes a pile of goo. She is just a raging bitch. She's hot all the time and I'm not talking in a milk sort of way. She just really comes at the camera in the first scene and it doesn't let up. But there is something that I find endearing about her the way that she says things. What are you fucking stupid? Like, I'm sorry, but I knew people that spoke like that and yes, they spoke that way to their kids and I got to tell you something. If you grew up in like a really nice environment with a lot of money and you think to yourself, your parents would never speak that way and that's so horrible. Guess what? A lot of parents speak that way to their kids. Oh, yeah. I heard that shit and I grew up fine. And I by no means offended by the way she speaks to her kids or anything like that because to your point, I grew up in the projects. I heard this shit 24/7. This was life, not a big deal. I just think as a character, the only moment we saw her have any sort of real. I'm going to connect with my kids and love them is when Sienna called her from the party to say, Mom, I love you. Like, I really mean it. I love you. I don't say it enough. I mean, Barbara softened just for a moment and I just wish I had seen more of that in more, not throughout, perhaps not covered in it, but just once in a while, not just at one time. I understand where you're coming from. I think there's two scenes personally. So I love that scene on the phone. I love when Sienna calls Barbara and says, I love you and I don't say it enough. I think that is shockingly touching. I think it completes an arc for Barbara where she is both constantly feeling like she's not getting anything she needs, but also is kind of treating Sienna like an adult when Sienna's not an adult. Sienna is totally within her right to party and be a little stupid and to be a little crazy and Barbara doesn't really have totally realistic expectations for her kids. It's understandable why she doesn't. It really is. But for her to kind of let go in that moment and say, you know what Sienna, enjoy your party. Just get home safe. It's really powerful and it really moved me. But I also really like the scene where Sienna comes down, Strayer stresses the Valkyrie and they have that mother, mother, daughter conversation where she is- Oh, she's like a tits around. Right. And it's funny because the way that she is so forward about what she says, I laughed because- Mm-hmm. Again, that's the way those moms spoke and that's the way that women I knew spoke when growing up. But also, I think that the mom is pulled in two different directions because on one side, she is genuinely worried that her daughter is in a very scantily clad Valkyrie outfit. But I think she's also really proud of Sienna. I think that she really does admire the costume and admire the work. And she says it's really beautiful. Like you clearly worked very hard on it. She just is also a little- You know, she's a mom. She's a mom. She doesn't want to see her little baby girl in a, you know, in a skippy outfit. Sure. I get that. I guess to me, those moments were a little too few and far between. And I know, I should say, I agree with you that helps complete the arc between Sienna and her mother. We don't always get along. We don't always see eye to eye. There's a lot of yelling. There's a lot of negativity. But we have genuine love for each other as a family. It's there. We just got to get a dig to get to it. Having that moment on the phone, then to have her immediately or relatively immediately die after, is a huge moment in this film that pays off big at the end. I think it was necessary and I think it helped the arc that Sienna's going through as well as Barbara. And I wouldn't change that. Oh, and I think it makes it very tragic. Absolutely, yeah. I just wish, not to beat the dead horse here, that maybe one or two other times she would have hugged her kid or said, "Hey, I think you're doing okay today." Or, "I know it's tough, pat them on the shoulder, but we can get through this." Just something one sentence somewhere along the way that would have said, "Hey, I really do give a shit about you. Not just a total raging bitch throughout the entire movie." Look, I actually don't disagree with you. But I think for me, what happened is it's related to the slap because everybody talks about the fact that she slapped her kid. Now, of course, I don't think it's good to slap your kid. I don't think it is at all. But let me tell you why I was happy with the moment. I know that it's going to piss people off, but not because I want anybody to ever do that to their kid. But because there was something that was so refreshing about "Terrify" or two, where I got to see characters that I empathize with do things that were wrong, and the movie didn't feel the need to hold my hand and tell me that these things were wrong. And it was refreshing. I felt like by 2022 when this movie came out that I had just seen movie after movie after movie, where every character was some paragon of goodness that fit some kind of social justice lens, and they had to do certain things that we would consider to be good people. It was so refreshing to watch "Terrify" or two and see the mom slap Jonathan. It was refreshing to see Brooke put the molly in the drink. It was refreshing to see Brooke smoking. And I'm not talking because I think these things are good things to do to people. What I liked is that it made the characters complicated. I think to pull out one of my famous odd comparisons, if you look at a show like "Married with Children" or "Roseanne." Back in the day, now, at this point in time, whole different story. But when those shows came out, they were, I dare say, revolutionary in the way that they showed a family that was not the way TV showed families. And those families were more realistic to a different walk of life. The people who watched "The Cosby Show" and related to "The Huxtables" because they were rich and they dealt with rich people problems had that show. The rest of us who grew up poor or struggling or dysfunctional had these other two shows, and we could relate to them on a level that nobody else understood because they spoke to us. And I think what you're talking about here is that same sensibility, not so much "Hey, let's slap our kids." But the idea that we have a family that speaks to a different walk of life, who are looking at this movie and relating to it stronger because to be very fair, most of us who grew up loving horror had this family. Very few people I've met in the horror community have had "The Huxtable Lifestyle" as they grew up. You do meet once in a while that silver spoon paper plate kid who was like a rich punk rocker or whatever. But generally speaking, this is our environment, this is our world, and to see it on screen we go, "Oh, okay, I get this. I can relate to this." The fact that the movie doesn't feel the need to hold our hand, and Damian Leon is bold enough to say, "You know what? I don't need to tell you that it's not good for Jonathan to be really interested in Nazis." You know what? You're a smart audience member. You can figure this out for yourself. The fact that the mother hits Jonathan is unacceptable and is not okay, but at the same time, I have also not had my husband go crazy, be abusive. It's implied that he was abusive and then drive himself into a transformer and burn himself alive. So I have not been through the things that they've been through and what they went through was pretty horrible. And again, the idea of slipping Molly in the drink is something that a dumb 18-year-old does, not thinking about someone else's consent. This is a thing that people do. People do things that are immoral and dumb. And I just really appreciated that there was no monologue or line of dialogue where the movie had to tell me and hold my hand and tell me that these things weren't okay. Yes, Sienna React's badly to be spiked by the Molly. That works for the story that's different. Because of course she's talking to her friend and she's mad at her and that's totally different. It made this movie just feel a lot more real to me and maybe it gave it that fucked up edge that they even found these tiny things that they were willing to be just a literally, I don't know, politically incorrect as the right word or a little controversial about. Maybe controversial is more correct, but you know what? I liked it. I liked the fact that where she slips the Molly in the drink yet we're still meant to empathize with her when she's getting killed. Usually when people now in horror do bad things, we're supposed to be really excited for their death. You know, like barbarian, you know, we're really supposed to be like almost rooting for... That guy was a sleaze ball, so yeah, kill him, fuck him. Right, and look, there's some horror that's great with that and I really enjoy it. But that it's daring to say, hey, this person hit his kid or kid, which is not okay, but we're also expected to empathize a little bit that doesn't mean you deserve to get shot in the face. I agree with you completely. I think it sets the right tone for it. I think it sends the right message to not have a five-minute monologue between Sienna or Jonathan and somebody else. I can't believe she hit me. How dare she and whatever, whatever, was another sign that David Leon was listening to his audience and knows how to talk to the people who are giving him as much respect and love and viewership as the movies deserve to get this to where it has come to be. And even Brooks' boyfriend, who we're gonna meet very briefly, even he's played kind of complicated. Usually characters like that are total douchebags and they kind of make him a little dumb. But when he has a chance to help Sienna, he offers. So, you know, I can drive you a few extra miles to go pick up your brother. Everybody's just... They're not totally good. They're not totally bad and it makes it more interesting. That's it. Right. And the boyfriend is a very good example of that because he's not the standard douchebag. Like, why do I got a take her anywhere? Or, hey, I'll do it if you show me your tits or something like that. He's a dude. Right. And my girlfriend's friend freaked out at the thing and, yeah, I don't want to go. None of us want to go. But she needs to ride home. So, I got the car I'm gonna take her because that's when my girlfriend wants to make her happy. And then we're gonna do fucking Coke in the car or whatever because he's still kind of a dick bag. But I do get a little sad during this part because I think that final conversation between Sienna and her mom is so touching. To watch the mother let down her guard, you put it so well. Like, let down her guard for a moment and say, you know what? I'm sorry. I shouldn't have bothered you. Like, you're not Jonathan's mom. You know, you're not, you're not my peer. You're my daughter. You go have your fun. You go enjoy your party. I don't care that you're getting drunk. You're a kid. You're gonna do kid things. Just get home safe. And I love you and I'm gonna go. And it is that, like, it pulls up my heartstrings every time because I know what's coming up. Right, right, right, right. That's the big thing now, especially I haven't watched the movies often as you have apparently. But saying it as many times as we have collectively, you have the anticipation of what's about to come, what's around the corner. And this moment really punches that home. I also just want to give a compliment to a scene that we didn't mention in the previous episode. But it's kind of wrapped in this whole section with Sienna and her mom. There is a montage of Sienna getting ready to go to this party where she, like, suits up in her Valkyrie outfit, with her wings and puts the paint on her face and whatnot. This is fucking awesome. Like, this is such a great montage. And I don't feel bad saying that Sienna's hot because I'll tell you this, that actress is 30 years old. It's a weird dynamic in Hollywood. You just gotta take it for what it is. But I like the scene more so from how hot she is than the throwback to things like Conan or something like that when the warrior is like, "I've had enough" and gets ready for battle. Because Sienna doesn't know it at this moment, but that's what she's doing. She's getting ready for battle. And that's what it feels like, which is what I really enjoy, is that she doesn't really know that this is happening. But it feels like that moment. It feels like when Alice is standing in front of her vanity at Nightmare Numb Street 4 and she's putting all the weapons on and she's, you know, using the nunchucks and whatnot, that she's getting ready for her final fight. And so it does feel like she's suiting up in some sort of like fantasy movie, despite the fact that she doesn't actually know that Art the Clown is after her. Right, exactly. Jonathan returns home to find his mother's corpse propped up at the dining room table. Her face is completely hollow. Art enters from the kitchen ringing a little bell and wearing an apron like a sweet housewife. After stuffing mashed potatoes in the place where Barbara's face should be, Art chases Jonathan with a syringe. He knocks him unconscious and then notices Sienna's sword sitting nearby. Brooke and her boyfriend Jeff drive Sienna home from the party. She's pissed about the molly and worried about Jonathan. She thinks he called asking for help, but it was actually the pale girl mimicking his voice telling them to go to an old amusement park. Sienna searches for Jonathan while Brooke and her boyfriend wait in the car. We find out more backstory about Sienna's father, watch Brooke take more drugs and make out with her boyfriend. Soon after, Art attacks. He cuts the dick off the boyfriend and chases Brooke through the park. She runs into a haunted house called The Terrifier and tries to hide in a blood-soaked bathroom. But Art follows. He burns her face with a jar of acid and beats her with a mace until her chest caves in. This is one of the glorious moments where I don't want to jump too far ahead, but there's so much to talk about and so many funny things to mention. Such as Brooke getting killed and Art ripping out her heart to eat it like he's going to gain an HP boost for doing so. But I think the obvious place to begin is dinner time where Jonathan having run away runs home because he saw the van parked outside. Notice the pale girl in the passenger seat who turned him and showed him the glowing eyes and freaked him out. Which looks great, looked phenomenal and he runs back to find the corpse of his mother. And this is what we're talking about in the first episode about Art where he is such a maniacal presence. He is such a sadistic character to take a very small almost derringer style shot off shotgun, blow this woman's face off, then set her at the dinner table and come out tinkling a little bell in an apron like a good little Donna Reed to serve her food that she can't possibly eat. And laughing and caring on about it is if it's the funniest fucking thing on earth because guess what? It is. I almost pissed myself when I watched this in the theater. Same thing. It was fucking funny. Same thing. The way that this movie just walks that tightrope of being both horrifying and funny at the same time is just surreal. They're so good at doing it. What's interesting here is that it does tell you something about Art the Clown's character because he both has some sort of larger purpose in this movie. Some reason he's trying to get to Sienna and get her to a certain point and get her to a certain place. And yet at the same time you can't attribute everything he's doing to that longer mark because sometimes he's just having fun. And I think that's the crux of it. There's no agenda. What do you do to have fun? Where is your hobby? What sort of things are activities that you just enjoy when you have a little downtime? That's what this feels like with him. Right. You know what would be funny? It's one thing I shot her face off. But if I drag her back in the house and prop her up or allie getting killed in the previous segments where he's like, it's fun. I'm killing you. That's okay. But what if I got the salt? It's like he had this big light bulb go off of her's head, went out and did a thing. And you see him dancing around literally going, now that's funny. That's good shit. And you can't make fun of it. You can't just even take it to the next level and kind of make fun of it because this is something the movie would do if it had infinite time. I mean, it's hilarious to think about Art the Clown setting up that dinner table before Jonathan gets there, like making sure everything's set correctly. All the plates are out, all the candles are lit. He had to cook the food. She wasn't cooking for the night. Oh, and you wonder then, how long was he waiting in the kitchen for somebody to show up, Jonathan or Sienna or anyone to show up into the house? Was he finishing the pot roast and he's just standing there giggling to himself, waiting for somebody, the anticipation growing? Or did Jonathan walk in at exactly the right fucking moment? Those mashed potatoes looked great. Yeah, they looked fresh. They looked great. I wish the mom could have enjoyed the way that she was meant to. Not as a suppository you mean. Right. But I kept thinking about that. How domestic is Art the Clown? Was there some sort of comedy that was happening in the kitchen? You know, one of those silly comedies where somebody has to get ready for dinner and everybody's going to be over at five o'clock and the turkey's just not cooking. Oh, no, the potatoes are out. And suddenly something's smoking from the oven, you're like, no, I got to order hamburgers. Oh, now he's got to kick it with his big clown shoe to get the door to close. That's right. Aurora Borealis localized entirely in his kitchen. It's just so funny to think about, but this movie does such a great job of walking that line. I mean, this, this part's great. It's really, it's one of my favorite parts. But then of course with Jonathan runs upstairs, I do notice a little bit of a trope in terrifier movies, which is that he runs into Sienna's bedroom. He tries to close the door and then Art the Clown kind of pushes the door open, pulls out his syringe and starts to go for Jonathan's neck. And I noticed something that might help people survive Art the Clown. When people struggle, when Art the Clown is trying to do something to them, they never grab the hand with the tool. They always, they always like grab at his shirt and they grab his little fucking bow tie and they grab it as a hat and they touch his hands and like, no, no, no. Grab the fucking syringe, Jonathan. Grab the hand with the syringe. Get the wrist that's holding the weapon shaking violently. So maybe he drops the fucking thing and they are grabbing at his face and whatnot. Give yourself a fighting chance. Just grab the hand with the weapon. Allie does it too. Allie does it too. She grabs his hand that's holding her hair as opposed to grabbing his hand that's free with the weapon. It's the different type of the same trope of somebody tripping when they run away from the bad guy. It's just, I don't know what you're doing, but you're not doing it right. Right, exactly, exactly. From here, we're going to go to Brooke and her boyfriend, Jeff, driving Sienna home from the party. Where Sienna's pissed off at Brooke because she got roofied and Brooke is like, dude, I was just trying to help you chill and again, I don't care. This is a perfectly normal teenage thing that could have happened. It was meant to be harmless. She's just pissed. It's whatever. What I do care about is that this is when Sienna gets a phone call from her brother saying, help me, help me, help me. I'm at the carnival. Come get me. If you find out it wasn't Jonathan that called her, it was the pale girl. And that brings up a lot of questions about going back to it again. Who is the pale girl? What is the pale girl? Is she a demon? Is she a figment of arts imagination? If that's the case, how can she make a call? Why are they both totally silent, but for some reason she can imitate literally anyone's voice that she wants to? Where does all of this come to play? So I take it that the pale girl just simply has a different set of powers. So you have Art the Clown who can basically not die, regenerate. And I don't know what other powers he has, but he's just a killing machine. I don't know what the power is. Fair enough. But the pale girl has the ability to mimic people's voices and has some sort of mind-control-y powers. She can kind of put stuff in people's minds. I don't really mind that they have different power sets. It still works for me. It's still scary. It's still interesting. But that's the way I read it. I just read it that they have different abilities. Fair enough. I think part of the reason I bring that up is for exactly that. I think when people talk about this film, and I'm going to fall into this trap a little bit myself, I can already see it coming. Much like we talked about a moment ago, we don't need everything spelled out for us. And sometimes you can just accept it. I fully accept that. You give me that answer for the pale girl and I'm like, "Yeah, that makes sense. That's fine." Other people do. There's a lot of debate online. There's a lot of people overthinking what's going on in a simple film. And I think that's the inherent issue, knowing full well what I'm going to get to inevitably, that you know very well what I'm going to get to inevitably, and how that might contradict what I'm saying now. I'll forgive people for thinking that the pale girl is his sister only because I don't think there's any family relation there. That doesn't even make any sense to me. But I do think they're mirroring the relationship with Sienna and her brother. I get that. Yes. And you'll notice that the pale girl versus Jonathan happens a little bit more and art versus Sienna happens a little bit more. So I think that there's just kind of creating mirror images of the villains and the heroes. I don't think it's meant to be that he literally has a sister. And when you brought up the idea that he had a daughter in the last episode, I just couldn't stop laughing. I kept thinking about some trailer park mom being like, "Where the fuck is Art the Clown?" The idea was, because now that we're on this, I'm going to actually expand on it because I think it's funny. The article that Jonathan read about the little girl that got murdered at the amusement park who came from a family of Mimes, which means her parents were Mimes and they were all circus performers. This is in the article. Got it. If you read through it. And the inference then is that this girl Emily was the daughter of Mimes. One of those Mimes was Art the Clown. And when his daughter died, he went crazy and made a deal with the devil to get these powers for some reason to get her back or whatever else. And that now he's rejoined with her and blah, blah, blah. That's what this whole fucking theory was. I don't ever want to know who Art the Clown is. I don't ever want to know. But that's really it though, isn't it? Like I don't want to be back in time fucking let's dig up your past and see you as a human being who went crazy bullshit. That doesn't interest me. I don't want, I don't want the Freddy Krueger. Remember in the, remember in the remake, the Nightmare in Elm Street remake where it has to show Freddy Krueger working at the Elm Street Elementary School? He's got the little rake and it's like a little, it's a little too obvious and it's meant to be like his glove. And he's for some fucking reason unknown to anyone. He's living in the basement of the school. And they're just like trying too hard to create some kind of backstory for this character. I don't want to fucking know who Art the Clown is. I don't want his backstory to want to find out who he was before he died. That's like when people try to do that with the Joker and I've never been interested in that either. I couldn't agree more and I go back to Darth Vader as my go-to for this. I did not need to know his origin story. I did not need to know that he was little Annie Skywalker. That doesn't make him scary. You know what made him scary is when he walked through the mist after the fucking stormtroopers blasted into that ship and he was just a dark menacing figure. That's what made him a scary villain. When he's behind that mask, little Annie Skywalker, it's not scary anymore. What year did Empire Strikes Back come out? What, 1981, 1984 or somewhere in there? Something like that. To think that you have been fighting that lone battle alone. Since 1980s, it's been fun. I need his backstory. It's fucking great the way it was. And same thing here. I don't care who Art is under all that. I don't care how he got his powers. I don't care what it all became. It doesn't interest me. I just want this to be what it is. I just want this to be what I'm going to do here to your point. There are little things here that bug some people. And I'm curious if they bug you. So basically Brooke and her boyfriend, Jeff, they get there. They let Sienna out. She goes and walks alone. I think it's kind of nice that Brooke and the boyfriend offer to walk with her. And then they decide to sit in the car. Again, I just like the fact that these characters are complicated, you know? They're a little nice. They're a little not nice. They've got something to do, and it's not a cool thing to do. But at the same time, Brooke does care. And she's young. She doesn't know. You haven't figured out morals and ethics yet. Sienna's stone and possibly having a psychotic breakdown. So, of course, the best thing for her to do is walk alone in a haunted carnival. But, you know, we're good. Well, well, I'm Brooke and Jeff too. We're just totally not bought into the whole thing. They think it's a prank and they think it's dumb. But one of the things that bothered a lot of people is that they reveal where the title comes from, which is that the terrifier is a haunted house that Sienna's told to go to. Now, a little tiny thing. It annoys the fuck out of me that when she's texting with Jonathan, which is really the pale little girl or art the clown, which is something they did in the first one, you know, having them text back and forth. It annoys the fuck out of me when it says the terrifier. Like, Jonathan, where are you located, the terrifier? That for some reason, it's in the fucking font of the title. Yeah. You know, I agree with you on that. And I wasn't going to bring it up because you like to mess with me when I dig into this kind of new one. It's so tiny, but it just annoys me. Why would anyone deliberately, I don't even know how I could on my phone, to be honest, but why would you take the time to highlight a word in the text you're sending and then go through your font list to find exactly the right font just to emphasize it before you send it when you could just write the fucking message? We may have just had a scene where a woman was eviscerated in her bedroom, but you know what will be scary, everyone? If when Jonathan texts to see in the word the terrifier, we do it in slasher-rific font. Yeah, exactly. It's got to be bold typeface, slightly italic. Right. Fuck off. Yeah, like just looking at the various like typeface. Creepster. No, that's not right. Oh my gosh, like no. Times New Roman. No. Oh, slasher-rific. This looks fun. That's the one. Yeah. Oh, and it'll be just like the title. How cool is that? That's great. I know. That's the pale girl's power set. Her eyes can glow. She can talk like Jonathan and she can change the font of text. At her will. That's right. Yeah. So they rolled low in the powers department. Oh, well, she's young. She's got to work her way up. Right. Yeah. Soon she'll be able to do it the whole documents. I like that her glowing eyes are just a scanned text. She'll just do a PDF on her phone. Right. She can scan shit too. She can send it right to your email. Doesn't bother you that the haunted house is called the terrifier. Some people thought this was just the fucking dumbest thing on earth. I think it's nothing. I don't care. Honestly, I think it's fine because a haunted house in a carnival like this needs a cool name. I could see a carnival calling their thing the terrifier. It could have been a roller coaster called the terrifier. Who cares? And I remember people in and around the first film going, what does terrifier mean? Did he terrify us? Was it a terrifying movie? What is the title inferred? There's nothing about the movie that says terrifier. Now they put it in the movie something that says terrifier and people are like, well, that's fucking dumb. And you can't win either way. And it's implied in the third one that that haunted house is going to play a role. She's got to go back to the terrifier. Yeah. She's got to go back there. You know, so it's going to be some sort of like fantasy, odyssey type thing. Sure. Castles and dragons and shit. I want them to just go full on crawl for the next one. I'm saying man. It's got to be like East Master entirely. Go through a portal and it's got to be like the army of darkness. It's the third movie. You got to go full medieval. You got to go medieval dead. Yep. Exactly. I was thinking the same thing. Evil Dead one is scary. Evil Dead two is a horror comedy. Evil Dead three is like pull like straight up medieval comedy. So wouldn't that fucking rub people the wrong way? It's got to be wizards, dragons and evil clowns forming an army. That's what it's got to be. Oh man, just a total fantasy fest. Have people write in about that? Boom. Oh man. People would be so fucking pissed. Art the clouds barely in it or he's like, he's like some wizard. He's like the guy. He's like, it's like Sauron or Soramon. I can never remember. There's the backstory. He's actually Merlin. And then he cast the wrong spell, became evil clown, transported into the future, murdered everybody. Leo, any backstory that they try to come up with Art the Cloud is going to be no better than what you just said. I know. That's why it's as good as any. Oh God. Mystery matters, folks. The mystery is better. But yeah, I love this haunted house. I think it's a great backdrop for the last part of the film. I never got why people were so fucking bent out of shape that it's called the Terrifier. I just never understood it. Maybe it's a little on the nose, but I thought it was fine that they referenced the title of the movie. It didn't really bother me all that much. You mean, the movie does sooner or later. The title of the film shows up as a form of dialogue in the movies where Friday 13th doesn't take place on Saturday, the 14th, like Sunday the 15th, Monday, the 18th. Right. It's not called Camp Crystal Lake. I did wonder who is operating the Terrifier. Isn't this place supposed to be closed? Isn't the amusement parks supposed to be shut down? And the haunted house is running. I would imagine that Art flipped the switch and turned it on when he got in there because this is apparently where he needs Santa to be, so he wants it to be fully operational for some reason. I guess it could be that. I guess it could be that he just finds it entertaining for it to be on. I didn't know if just some lonely employee was unaware. It didn't get the message that he was being fired and just forgot to leave. I forgot to turn the lights off on the way out. I'm sorry. I got fired again, mom. Missed with the wings on her back. But he's no running in the Terrifier. Don't pressure me. I got 20 keys. I don't know what opens the gate. Listen, this place is going to close it a few minutes. I've got to go to my job at Domino's kid words everywhere. Hey, listen, when you work at Domino's, you got to make it to me. I love the backdrop here. I think that the haunted house is great for this and it allows for so many different little set pieces in this final battle between Sienna and art and with Jonathan and Brooke running around in there too, it just offers so many different places that this last battle can happen. And that's one of the cool things about it. I have never been to a carnival that had this cool of a haunted house in it between this one and fucking child's play three. I've been on those carts. I've been in that little trailer. Nothing looks as cool. Nothing ever. So praise them for having such a badass fucking haunted Terrifier carnival ride thing. I wonder why rather where this carnival is, how far removed it is because some of these things are set next to neighborhoods and I can imagine somebody sitting down to dinner and suddenly the Terrifier ride lights up and they're like, God damn it. It's because Miles County has everything. It's like we said in the first episode. The next movie is going to take place at Miles County University and they're going to go to Miles County Arena and there's going to be the Miles County Mall where the fucking clown is. Exactly. So Miles County this and Miles County that they got to go to Miles County Recycling Center and then they got to go to Miles County Swords and Axes where she's going to get the sword sharpened and blah, blah, blah, blah. What are those ax throwing shops miles County ax throwing. You sure been this for me? There's a big part where he's going to kill everybody at Miles County bingo. Like it's going to be it's just going to be over and over and over again. Yeah, I thought the same thing too. I thought this town's pretty big if they throw an amusement park or this county or whatever it is. It's like Conan. But yeah, but yeah, I kept laughing at the terrify because I thought the same thing too. I thought this is the fucking haunted house that dreams are made out of this as giant animatronics. This is great. Most of the haunted houses around me are just like one employee who has to change outfits really quickly and then jump scare me through windows like people running around the side of the trailer banging on the wall just to scare you. Right. So boy, do that, but this haunted house is great and Brooke is being chased by art the clown. So we have had him attack the car. Funny enough, I have actually absolutely nothing to say about the dicks tab. Yeah. The detachable penis scene. Right. Right. To me, to me, that reads is one thing. The guy was wearing the shirt. This is just the tip are found that funny and he just thought, I'm going to cut the deck off like that. And honestly, it's all I could say about it was the revelation of art's sadistic sense of humor, but we've already covered that better in other areas of this film. So I'm like, yeah, my cynical mind did wonder if it was day, me and Leon balancing things out a little bit after he had cut a vagina in half in the first film. I think it's literally what you said. He had a shirt on said, just the tip are went, okay, that's hilarious and cut his fucking dick off. Easy. But when Brooke runs from him, she runs into this bathroom that is covered in blood and covered in shit on the walls. And it was a little confusing to me because with all the blood and the shit on the walls, I couldn't tell if this was the bathroom of the haunted house or just the normal bathroom of any amusement park. That's fair. Corn dogs and turkey legs, man. I'll go right to you. For anybody who's ever been to a place called South of the border, South of the border has the most disgusting bathrooms I've ever seen in my entire life. That's a joke literally for Jacqueline from a cut above and that's it. Because she's the only person that I know of that's ever been to South of the border. I have to admire that this bathroom, as disgusting as it was, was still cleaner than the bathroom in that fucking apartment complex in the first movie. That's right. It was a big step up. It was a huge improvement. Yes. You can tell his cleanliness has really come out as his character. He's mobbing floors. He's wiping counters. He's doing okay. I would say that the bathroom was a work in progress. That's true. She interrupted him. He had to chase her in there and kill her and then he's like, oh, I just cleaned that spot. Fuck. But this is another fantastic kill because what I like about it is it's unfair. This woman is ready to defend herself, maybe not deeply effectively, but she's ready to defend herself and she gets a good run from him. She kicks him in the face once. It could be a final girl moment and what does he do? He takes acid that he had in his bag from the coroner's office and just throws it in her face and also nod to Leon and whoever else for this. He got that acid out of the coroner's office within the first five minutes of the movie and then we all fucking forgot about it until now. It wasn't for nothing. He didn't just grab it and it never saw it again. It was important. It was going to happen. It happens now. And everyone forgot about it. And as soon as he had it behind his back, the whole audience went, oh shit. Like in unison. Mm hmm. Yup. I thought he was using it to clean his dentures or something like I didn't know what he was doing. It's how he got the fucking suit. So clean in the laundry mat. That's what happened. Exactly. He just put it on the floor and he swept it around. Oh, it was great. That's why he cleaned up in there so well. No, it's so unfair. She's not given a chance at all and he loves that. He liked to chase to what we're talking about with his expressions before. He kicks him in the face and he gets a little bit of a grin going, okay, this is cool. This is the chase I wanted, just as around corners are and then to your point, unfair. It's like when Tara was kicking his ass and doing a really good job of it. And then he just took the gun off his ankle and shot her in the fucking chest. Yup. Same thing here. You're going to kick my ass. I see that. So I'm going to be unfair and throw acid on you so you don't have the opportunity. Ta-da. And art always decides when the game is done. This happens with Ally too. He plays this game with her at her doorstep with the candy and the this and the that and then he goes into the kitchen, he drinks the water. But then when he decides the game is done is when he becomes ruthless. That's when he goes after people and just kills them in horrible ways. It's the same with the guy at Abra Catabra too. He plays the game out for a while, he makes the guy uncomfortable, he plays around with all this shit on the register and trying to pay for the horn and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then when art is done, he goes in for the kill and it's horrible. And that's exactly what he's done here. He's done with the chase. He's gotten her where he wants her because he wants somewhere that Sienna can find her. And then he throws the acid on her face and proceeds to beat her with the mace. Yeah. And this is one of those great homemade weapons that art is getting to be very well known for. Looks like a table leg that he's hammered a bunch of knives and forks and sharp things through. And he just beats the living fuck out of her until her chest caves in. Yeah. This thing's like a leatherman. It's very useful. It's got everything. He's clipping his toenails later and he's doing it. It's it's got a it had a dull butter knife for like you could make toast with it. It's great. It's like the bathroom buddy is doing it. Yeah. Get that right. The bathroom buddy. He should sell those on Etsy. That's a great. This part where he clubs her to again kudos to the actress. Her pain and her suffering is what really sells this scene. I mean when she is screaming with that acid on her face and he hits her in the back and knocks her to the ground. I mean, Jesus Christ, like it's not the gore that bothers me. It's my empathy for just human suffering that really gets to me during these kills. And it happens especially with Ali and Brooke, but they're suffering and they're screaming and they're crying. It's really, really gets to me in all the right ways. This is very effective. And as he's like knocks her down, she's screaming even more until her chest caves in. This is a wild kill. I actually kind of like this kill better than Ali's personally. I think it's interesting. I'm noticing a difference between the two of us when we watch movies like this. You talk about the empathy you have for the people who get killed. And I get it and I fully support it and I don't. And I don't know what that says about me. But I do not care. I just don't. I think it's honestly a jokes aside. I think it's just taking it like, I know it's a movie. I know these are actors. I know that, you know, whatever, whatever. So I'm just watching it going, oh, that one's dead. That's pretty fun. And I move on. I don't really dig that deep in it emotionally or get that invested. Even if I'm invested in the character, I still get that attached. Well, I'm not saying that I cry tears and, you know, I'm uncontrollable. I'm sobbing at the theater. Broke. Broke. Broke. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that they're the actresses are really selling it. And so I really feel the kill because they're screaming and they're crying so much. But yeah, I do often feel empathy over terror. You know, that came up again. We talked about it last episode with human centipede, you know, that or. But we talked about it with human centipede. So like that's one where that comes up from even though I fucking hate that movie. And it comes up with terrifier, I think green and ferno, it comes up too because you're just watching people suffer. That can really get to me in a way that I actually find very interesting in horror films. And actually, I quite enjoy one of the things that I bitch about all the time is if you don't make the killer, the characters likable, I don't care when they die. Yeah. And I had a lot of that going through my head with this movie because you keep bringing that up. And I agree with you. We talk about how well the characters are being sold by the actors playing them. Yeah. But this much energy and passion and emotion into a simple I'm dying scream, which most other movies would just let it scream and let it be. It says a lot about the person portraying the character that they can bring that empathy out in you. Look, I think Brooke's funny too. She's a couple of funny lines when she's in the car. You know, it's funny. I think that some people would say that the scene with Brooke and her boyfriend in the car is one of the ones they would cut down. Not for me. I totally agree with you. I actually would cut down some of the stuff in the club because once we know that she's high on the molly, we don't really need scene after scene of them dancing together. We just need their character stuff. We need the scenes with the two girls talk to one another. I would almost completely eliminate the dance at the club in exchange for them having the conversation with each other and her having the conversation with her mother in another way that still got those points through because those are the two things that came out of that that were worthwhile. Everything else? Don't give a shit about it. Yeah. I don't need as much of the party. I actually agree with you. But I love this conversation in the car. I actually think that that does flesh out these two characters and that does make them a little funnier, you know, usually when characters are making out the car, they look really irresponsible or dumb, but they actually don't. I don't really give a fuck if they're doing drugs. That's their business. I could care less. They're not giving it to somebody who didn't know they were getting it. Right. You know, that's unethical. But like, I don't really give a shit that they're fucking snort and coke and making out with each other. I think that Brooke is quite empathetic when she, you know, tells the story of Sienna's dad. You know, it's, you know, it's sad you can tell she feels for her friend, even though she had this big fuck up with the Molly, she feels bad for her, you know, and what her friend went through. So I think this all works to, you know, kind of like flesh out these characters and just makes this kill the Brooke kill is my favorite kill in the movie. I mean, that, that chest caving in is just fucking wild shit like that's, that to me, it's also, I like that it's a little shorter, like I, it's just a little shorter. And so, you know, the alley kill just, it loses me with the salt. Like it's funny. I get, I agree that it's funny, but I want that kill to bother me. And it doesn't because it kind of jumps the shark, whereas the Brooke kill doesn't. I find it interesting how killing Ally is the one that people wanted a boycott the movie for because it was quote, unquote, the big kill. But this one seems a little more hitting home, but not to put a whole pun in there. But yeah, yeah, there's a cruelty to it and there's something else about it as, as vicious and cruel and dastardly as it was to kill Ally the way he did, something about eviscerating Brooke when she was just this cool character, I think it's at the same level, if not a little deeper than Ally's death, for as much as that was more in gruesome, this was more in character. Siena walks through the terrifier looking for Jonathan. She finds the corpse of Brooke on the floor with art standing in the doorway. Jonathan's behind him. She hits him with a board and the two of them fight it out in the bathroom. Art knocks Siena to the ground and kicks her until she's unconscious. She wakes up, grabs a mace and fights to protect her brother. It's a knock them down, drag them out fight between these two arch enemies. Siena goes from survivor to warrior, protecting Jonathan while earning a few crowd pleasing heroic moments. She sinks a pipe into his skull and Jonathan shoots him with the mini shotgun, but the pale girl helps get the upper hand. Siena is stabbed with her own sword and tossed into a smoking bulmed void in the ground. She wakes up in a dunk tank on the set of the clown cafe. After trying to escape, Siena dies. Suddenly the sword begins to glow. Siena's wound heals, her body is res- Siena's wound heals, her body is resurrected and she climbs free. Saving Jonathan, Siena slashes art repeatedly until he's decapitated. The pale girl arrives, she takes art's head, cradles it in her arms, and disappears into the darkness. Siena hugs Jonathan, and the movie fades to black. Before we reach the inevitable, I want to talk about Siena throughout the movie showing moments of heroism, where, for example, Brooke dies and Siena shows up to find her there, and hurts her first genuine encounter with art as far as defending herself. And at first, she's just getting thrown around the poo-poo room a lot, eventually grabs that cat and nine tails thing that art has and starts going at him with it. It shows that she's coming into her own, that she's becoming the warrior princess, whatever shit. I see it more like she's the Joan of Art character and art is the demon she's fighting. I waited for our main character in this section on purpose. That seems a bit odd to get almost all the way through a movie and then really talk about the main character at the end. But there's a lot of characters to talk about and they're all dead now, pretty much. Basically true. If you would ask me a year ago or two years ago or whatever, what did I think Terrifier 2 would bring us? I would have thought that it would bring better production value, maybe a better script, more art the clown, more laughs. I would have expected all that a bigger kill. Ever in my wildest dreams did I think Terrifier 2 would supply us with the best final girl I've seen in probably ten years. And I am not being hyperbolic or bullshitting. Sienna is a fucking treasure. And boy, oh boy, are they going to have a tough time down the road making these movies. Because now we've got two characters that we love, not just one. I really want to latch on to that point with you because I agree with you. And I think that's going to be important for the things I have to say coming up. As much as I praise art for being the best charismatic killer since Freddie, I think Sienna is equally the best final girl that we've seen in a very long time. In her ability to earn it and own it and then live it. Yeah. Oh, I love how you say earn it, own it, live it. That should be a great, like, live, laugh, love. And then just arts head dangling from it. But first of all, even before this fight, just in a fucking insanely likable character, that wonderful sense of somebody who's not totally perfect, who's coming into her own, she's got this great, like, you know, she's on this edge of, you know, kind of becoming an adult. You know, she's got some piercings and she's like a little bit more grown up, yet there is still a part of her that wants to be a kid. She is just a compelling character. And you can see the work that Damien Leon put into writing her. The effort is really there. I never thought that I would get to terrify her too and actually get what I wanted. I told you when we covered Terrifier one, I want somebody to root for it, even if he kills them. I want someone that I can care about so that I'm invested in the story so that whether they kill them at the end or not, I care. And I didn't care in Terrifier one. It wasn't that I didn't like Don and Tara. I've never agreed that the acting in that movie is bad. I think the actors are fine. I like both of those actors. And it's not that I didn't like them. I just saw where it was going. I knew what he was doing. I could see it coming a mile away. In this movie, man, I'm watching it and I'm going, I don't want her to die because I really like her. And you can really see the love and attention that was put into her. I agree completely. And again, nodding to Leon for listening to the fans. You and I talked about it, people with louder voices than us talked about it. We don't give a shit about the characters, give us somebody to hang on to, give us somebody powerful, give us somebody. Yep, and he's went, okay, and he really, really, really fucking delivered, which I want to say, not that he'll ever listen to the show, personally, thank you to him for that. Yep. Because it's a rare, rare thing for anyone on any project, let alone a movie, to listen to the people and go, I got you and he did it and I appreciate it. I really didn't want to bring up our friends over at a crowd above. They did a fantastic episode on Terrifier 2. And sometimes, I quote them, sometimes me and Jacqueline tend to have very similar ways of seeing movies sometimes. But I can't not quote something she said because I've never forgotten it. She said, you walk into this movie for art and you walk away with Sienna. And I totally, totally agree. I thought that was such a great way of saying what this character meant to us. And like, it really excited a lot of people. I mean, she was just somebody that the audience like really grabbed a hold of, I mean, holy shit, I'll tell you this, there are as many people cosplaying her in that Valkyrie outfit than there are doing art the clown. That's true. And that says a lot. It does say a lot. What you'd said about the pale girl earlier, where he went to a convention or whatever, there's a bunch of women dressed up as art. And that's where he got the idea for the pale girl because he was like, I got to get in on this if people are doing this. What I really love too is again that they've given her so much attention. Remember, it's not just that she was, you know, strong final girl. We've seen that before. It's that she was really vulnerable and she was funny and she had really interesting hobbies. Like, we actually got to know her as a three dimensional person. We got to know her friends. We got to know her relationship with her mother, with her brother, you know, her relationship with her. Jonathan is very endearing. And I love a final girl that has someone to fight for. That's why my favorite final girl fight in Friday 13th is part four. I love when the final girl has someone that she's protecting and fighting for. And there's often that's a little brother dynamic. It's like a big sister, little brother, but holy shit, does that work for me? And the way that she is both balancing in this fight, her own fear. And then every time Jonathan's in danger, like just kicking in and going right into I'm grabbing a weapon and I'm going back and I'm finding Jonathan, I'm going after art the clown. He's so great. No matter how hurt I am, no matter how much I've been through, I'm going to pick myself to fuck up when I hear him scream and I'm going to go make sure he's okay. And you said something about earning it. One thing I love. There's a really great lesson on how you earn your hero moments in this movie. Some people think the fight's too long. I love every fucking throw and I love every punch. I love every mace hit. I love this fight. I just think it's fucking thrilling. I love every beat and every moment of it. But Sienna fights at first like a final girl. You know, she uses improvised weapons. She gets the drop on art and every time he fights her, he kind of wins. He kind of wins pretty quickly. It isn't until they're in the church set that it switches. And she has this moment where art is hitting Jonathan with the cat nine tails. And she crawls on him and starts taking the hits. Yeah. And there's something religious in that. There's something religious in this whole like, you know, she's taking the hits for Jonathan yada yada yada. And then when she turns and catches that cat nine tails, that was like watching Captain America grab Thor's hammer like I fucking cheered when she did it. It landed and you want to know why it landed because they didn't make the mistake that they sometimes make with female heroes, which is that they are such in such a rush to get to that point. They do this with male heroes too. But I think they do it sometimes a little bit more with female heroes because they're in such a rush to get to this moment that they don't allow all the pain and suffering and learning that it takes to get there. And I was going to cite the same thing about her covering her little brother crawling over there as fucked up as she got to get protective over the top of him like a shell and take those beatings and whippings and lashings from art who didn't give a shit. He's like, okay, I'll just start hitting you now, whatever and he just kept going. But she did it to save him. She did it to keep him from being hurt to protect him. And that is what I mean by earning it. This is somebody who really got there because she really gave a shit. There's sort of two references that are going back in my head that I think make my point. So number one, do you remember when, not to reference Marvel movies, I know not everybody who listens to the show watches Marvel movies, but there was such a difference between the way audiences responded to Captain Marvel versus the way they responded to Black Widow. Because Black Widow was far less powerful, yet we all cared about her so much because we had gone on this journey with her. She was such an interesting character. She was just infinitely the better and more interesting superhero despite the fact that she had practically no powers, whereas when they did Captain Marvel, they were just rushing to these big moments and they weren't doing enough story and enough earning of it because she was so powerful that it wasn't really able to earn her big moment. So when she would like blast something out of the sky, well, she's blasted everything out of the sky. She's so powerful. In that case, it wasn't about disliking a female hero, it was that Black Widow or others were just treated so much better, they were treated so differently. But also, I don't know if you remember this. So when we started seeing more heroes that were female in the late 90s, now not in horror because horror, they've always been around. But in the late 90s, early 2000s, they wouldn't actually challenge the women. Think of Mulan. Remember Mulan, when she fights the big bad guy at the end, the best he can do is pull her cape? Right. Well, that's the best he's able to do because they wouldn't have him hit her. Remember, GI Jane was very controversial because Viggo Mortensen beats the shit out of her. But of course, part of the story is that Demi Moore's character is being treated like the men. And so in its great scene, it's like the best scene in the movie. It's really powerful, especially when she starts turning the tide. And that's what they landed with the Cat 9 Tales moment is they weren't afraid to have Sienna suffer. She gets her ass handed to her in that bathroom scene. And it's so brutal that when she grabbed that fucking Cat 9 Tales and started fucking beating the shit out of him, I like Art the Clown. And boy, did I want her to fucking kill him. I wanted him to her to kick his ass. Great writing, great acting, great directing. Everything came together to make it perfect. Yeah. That's exactly what most horror fans have been screaming for for so long is something like this to happen. Oh, yeah. I was fucking cheering. I was so excited when she puts the fucking pipe in his face. I thought this really paid off and I actually like the fact that Jonathan has a little bit of a role in it too. Even though he's not the big fighter in the movie, grabbing the gun from his ankles pretty clever and having him play a little role in it is great because you don't want art to be the loser too much. Boy, boy. Yeah. The thing that you just put into my head was death proof. I agree. Yeah. Cannot express how much I fucking hate that movie because it went too hard on the message it was trying to do to the point that it ruined the bad guy in the movie. And I'm not saying anything else about it, to be very honest because it's not where we're here. But when you take a character like art who is so sadistic, so maniacal, so evil and let's just say she starts getting the better of him and in the scene beats him to the point where he can barely stand, then he's not scary anymore. He's just a fucking guy and I'm so glad they didn't go that way. Yeah, I'm going to just go off your death proof example for a second. So I really like that movie, but I know what you're talking about and we won't get into it because we'll cover that. That's a horror movie. We'll cover it. But death proof has this ending where you have this just this great villain and I have to admit I'm a little bit of a sucker for I want my villain to stay as powerful as humanly possible. Again, not to keep referencing Marvel movies, but Avengers Endgame nailed it because Thanos stays at top power until they win. And that's to my preference how a villain operates in these kinds of stories. Now, all stories are different. All stories are doing different things. But I also have to agree that when I saw Death Proof, I was just a little disappointed because Russell was just such a great villain, he was so great. And then when he loses so much power, it just is a little bit, you know, changed the dynamic and quite frankly took away from the message of the girls fighting back and winning and being powerful and all that shit. And what they're trying to do for those women, I think it made them fail in doing it. That's just it. Well, and we'll cover it when we get to that movie. But with this film right here with Sienna and Art, I love the fact that he doesn't really lose his power yet. We still get these heroic moments because again, I fucking lost my mind when she caught that cat and I tells they earned it so much. So Leo, now we're at probably the most controversial point for maybe the two of us. I think we both agree that this section of the movie where she's resurrected doesn't totally work. But maybe we think of it for different reasons. So I'm curious to hear from you what you think about this part and then I'll say what I think about it. Two years ago, we talked about this movie pretty much fresh from the movie theater we went, saw it, came back, recorded a thing about it, which is fun. At the time, I had this situation where Art takes the sword off her table and then he kills her with it, which is his sense of sadistic irony and comedy, which I loved. And then she drops into a pit, she dies, the sword glows, her wound glows, she heals, she comes back to life and I'm just sitting here going, what the fuck? It didn't make sense at the time for this girl to suddenly turn into magical girl Sailor Moon and spin in a circle and be healed and be fine and win as opposed to very much like what we're just saying about Death Proof actually. She was doing very well and she was winning and she was becoming the hero and she was becoming the final girl and again she earned it. And now she's just magical. It seemed to take it all away. It seemed to diminish what she had earned in that she had this superpower all the time and could have just easily snapped her fingers and done it and whatever else. I don't know. I've had two years to sit on it. I have been able to read a few things from the people who made the film and some fan theories, you and I've talked endlessly about this movie. I come to realize perhaps it's not Sienna who's magical but maybe the sword itself. By getting stabbed with the sword, it was what gave her the power to come back to life, which is not an ideal answer but changes the dynamic on this ever so slightly to the point where I don't have to sit here and wonder about Sienna anymore but fantasy elements, the movies based on Conan Beastmaster, all that, I can accept that shit but now what about her father because that's why all the questions land. If this is true, if this is now about the sword and not about Sienna, who the fuck is this guy, how did he just find or make a magical sword? What the shit does he know and I find that it brings me to the same conclusion in that I know that Damian Leon had planned all the while to keep things in mystery and leave things unanswered and to make the audience feel uneasy by doing so and I get that and I actually really respect that but I didn't feel uneasy. I felt annoyed. I felt that this is the big moment, the big plot point that you are driving the entire film towards and you don't give us any reason for it, whichever direction it goes and there may be the third or fourth or fifth direction that I even thought of. I don't know but it still leaves more questions, answers and while that can be a good thing in your film, I think for this film, you had to answer at least one of those questions and you didn't and it's annoying. There's a really good review done by a guy named Sean Chandler who just like, he's just a movie reviewer and he talks, he's a YouTube channel, I'll link him in the show notes, he's really good and he does these kind of fun reviews of movies and I was really curious what, if I can be frank, kind of a normy thought of terrifying too and he loved it. He loved it. He spoke very highly of it despite the fact that he reviews everything from Sonic the hedgehog to dramas to whatnot. He really liked it and he talked about how if the charm of the first movie that was made on a low budget really small, the charm of Terrifier 2 is that everything is so blown out. He said something that I made me think of you. He said, there are two things that are part of the mix/bad bag of this film. Number one, it's just not going to be for some people because it's just too fucking gory and too sadistic. Number two, it asks a lot of questions and answers none of them, like none of them. He also agreed with you that you've got to answer some questions and I don't disagree with you on that. I think that there is a big messy ball in Terrifier 2 when I kind of like take a step back and look at the whole thing but I think what we disagree a little bit is just simply that I find that to be the charm of the movie is that it's a little too big for its britches and that it's a little big and that it's kind of blown out everywhere which gets to this resurrection scene. I remember how I felt when I watched it and I remember thinking to myself, oh we're doing this now, like okay, we're doing magical sword and we're doing resurrection and I still totally don't know how I feel about it. Here's an easy way to do a symbolic resurrection which is that Ciena can fall into a pit, she can get stabbed, something bad can happen to her. You can cut to art, Jonathan can scream Ciena and then you can just show her arms coming up over the side, she's got the sword and she's quote unquote resurrected, it's symbolic but I don't know what any of this means. I think that's the thing is that it changed tonally at this point in the movie. As much as I go on about the specifics of the sword being magic or she's being magic or whatever, I can get the yin yang of Ciena and art. She is the good one, he's the bad one, I find, that's old storytelling and it's great, I can dig it. But when you go from a slasher film to suddenly a fantasy film and there's a little bit of fantasy in it up that we know that magic is within art and he's got some sort of supernatural demonic thing, okay great but it's not full on warrior princess fantasy which is now what this is and I don't hate it, I don't but it just right at the fucking end when we're at the climax of Ciena coming into her own and winning the day and everything came through, it just shifted so drastically from one thing to the other that it throws you out of your chair and makes you go what the fuck just happened? If I like really split it up, there's things I like about it, I love this whole scene visually. You know this movie is gorgeous, really great color schemes but it's all saturated with like a filter so it just looks a little old and a little grimy so when you see like this blue dungeon with this red light coming out of this bulb doorway in the ground and the burnt orange coloring that they use to show the power of the sword, I love the fact that it's muted, it really does look like something straight out of the 80s, a little trashy and that's just me separating things out, you know who I am, I never like to say like just because one thing doesn't work for me, the other things don't and so there's a lot of incredible things happening here but the resurrection is also long, like she falls into the pit and then we hear the clown cafe song and then she's in the dunk tank and then she's struggling in the dunk tank and then all the kids are there from the clown cafe and then the people are on fire and blah blah blah blah and she fights and she fights and it just keeps going, it keeps going, it keeps going and that's for me, that's what bothers me a little bit more is it's just a little blown out when I knew what was happening here, they were elongating her death and I had kind of caught on, I said I don't think she's gonna die, I think that she's gonna live and I think for some fans the sword bothers them and the power of the sword bothers them because in horror we are used to there being magic but it's gotta be always evil magic and so not for you, maybe not you but for other fans if there are demons then there are angels and this movie was smart enough to not make angels look like fucking doofuses and instead they make them look like angels in meatloaf albums, they look fucking awesome, they look awesome, they look like they're gonna ride it on a motorcycle, yes they look like Iron Maiden angels, yes exactly. For me it doesn't take away from Sienna's character that she needs a little bit of help to beat art because art has all this other power, you know what I mean, like he's got a whole pale girl that has all these abilities, he can resurrect himself constantly, you know he's barely hurt by the cat in Ninetales and the pipe as great as that scene is, he heals from it pretty quickly so I don't mind so much that she has a little bit of help from whatever is good and powerful out there in the world of this movie. She has help, let me paint you a scenario because I agree with you, that's not a bad thing, imagine he stabs her, pushes her into the pit, she's down there having her death dream drowning in the tank, Jonathan gets up, has his hero moment, beats a shit out of art, dives in, saves her, pulls her out, gives her the sword, says now fight something like that, she gets the strength back enough to go and whoop his ass. You don't want the sword to be powered up at all. When Enigo Montoya got stabbed in the stomach he shoved his fist into the wound to stop the bleeding and went on fighting, that's badass, you know what I mean, that's the hero saying fuck you I am not going to die to you, Sienna could have had that moment without having to be magical and I'm not saying magical hurts the film necessarily because I know there's some grand third part happening that's going to explain a lot of shit and he's saving a lot of shit for that moment and I'm trying very hard to be patient for that and see if it pays off at the same time taking this for what it is without a third part on the horizon. There are other ways that we could have had her come to her own and save the day or even had Jonathan had a better arc and save the day because right now Jonathan is just as I said before the audience Mary Sue he's just there to represent us in the film as the onlooker and not really contributing much other than being bait or whatever I mean what is the point of art keeping Jonathan alive and bringing him to the spook house other than to drag Sienna there and then he's not got anything to do while he's there except lying on the floor and get his ankle chewed on. So I don't want to end on negatives but what I will say is Jonathan being part of this plot is actually one of the few things in this fight that doesn't work for me because them constantly needing to get keep Jonathan alive and put the syringe in him and torture him and whatnot because they need to keep Sienna moving towards this place where they're going to drop her in the hole for some reason who knows why Arthur clown wants to do any of that. It feels a little plot armory yeah and as much as I love this end fight that was what really made me think neither of these characters are going to die because it felt like there was a little bit of plot armor just a little bit I still fucking love this movie and I don't want to end on negative either but I'm just my brain starts going to other options you could have brought this back to that ninth circle short dropped her in the pit now she's surrounded by that fucking cult instead of in that clown cafe dream you know what I mean something where oh I got another one for you there she goes and I'm not saying any of those are better ideas I'm just saying I feel like whatever idea was chosen we could have had these two characters have a stronger moment without having to I'm just gonna say take the cheap road of oh it's just magic and brush it off I don't agree with that but I agree with the awkwardness of this final moment because there's just so many unanswered questions why did art bring her to this place in the first place he practically brought the sword to her right this he need her resurrected I don't think so because he doesn't react that way at all he reacts like he thought she was dead he does not like seeing her come back and it is a good point why does she have to be at this carnival why couldn't he just killed her at her house and so you have a lot of stuff here that is again making it feel like plot armor and it's just feeling a little bit like things are plotting along he brings the sword he stabs over the sword the sword sword is magical for some reason he has to drop her into this magic that the magic door yeah magic door at the bottom of this basement that he has to bring her to so much that he has to use Jonathan as bait I think with all of the unanswered questions for me it just makes this awkward when symbolically it would have been just enough that would have been enough for me I actually don't care about the magical sword I actually enjoy it I wish it fucking lit up when she fucking cut his head off you know what I mean like I love it cuz it's the stuff of like horror fantasy artwork and stuff like that you know we see that like oh yeah you see the bucksome women like riding a saber tooth tiger and they've you know they've got the lightning is hitting the sword and it's glowing an iron maiden ship yeah exactly you know that the artist that did Conan the barbarian what is a cool book that wonderful artist whose name I'm forgetting but I'll put him in the show now it's like his stuff is so amazing and that's what I'm thinking of in this moment but when you just have so many different pieces that you're trying to add in here and it doesn't really feel like a resurrection because if you've ever seen the movie creed creed does a great they do the resurrection seem better than anybody even though it's boxing movie he gets knocked down and creed Apollo creed son just start thinking about like he thinks about his mom he thinks about Stallone he thinks about everybody and then he thinks about his dad and then he's back up and it's like that's how you do it like that's that's how you nail it and you make it his moment I I understand what you're saying it doesn't feel like her moment because the sword did it for her she didn't earn her resurrection and that's what usually happens in a fantasy story they earned their resurrection and she had earned her final girl moment up until this point right so when you have her earn it till here and then take that away from her right it that's where I get irritated now if you'd done some Thor thing and this wouldn't have worked tonally sure where the sword found her worthy because she got so hard totally then you go okay great she earned her resurrection now she earned becoming the warrior but this is all fantasy trope stuff yeah but I got to tell you if that had happened I would have less issue with it because I'd be like okay yeah she earned her her final girl thing and now she earned her warrior thing because the sword's like yeah you good and if that's where they go with it I'm in like that's great because I will I will recant all of my bullshit if that's how they go that's fine I'll be fine I have no issue with the horror fantasy element of this I she can fucking ride unicorns and fight art the clown all day long I could care less for sure in a mid credit sequence Victoria Hayes is locked in an asylum the ordellies hear her screaming blood pours from between her legs her belly grows and she begins to scream when a nurse opens the door Victoria has given birth to the head of art the clown it smiles Victoria laughs and her eyes begin to glow I actually only really have one comment to this entire section of this little post credit thing what the fuck there's some funny stuff in here first of all I want to throw some comments before we dog on this a little bit because I've ever thinking I've ever watched this movie be like that was some edge lordship like oh yeah oh yeah it was some edge lordship I kind of am okay with it now because I also read some theories and when I I didn't ever notice the glowing eye before and that that kind of made me go oh okay I know what they did there but I will say some things that I enjoy before I dog on this a little bit number one love the Halloween two vibes that I'm getting from this how this this hospital scene I you know I fucking love me some Halloween two and I love the pumpkins and the desolate hospital like that shit just like that just that works for me and I don't know if this is supposed to be a little throwback to that little reminder of the Halloween two that I love from you know what is it 1982 or what not I wouldn't be surprised there's a lot of nods to a lot of horror movies in this whole film oh this terrifier to is a fucking love letter to oh yeah there's there's a fucking my bloody valentine and Halloween and fucking Freddy it's all over the place oh yeah there's a job yeah return to the night night living dead is in there there's a there's an actress who is at abracadabra that is one of the women in Halloween five you know there's just a lot of Felicia Rose you know this this movie knows how to do Easter eggs and say I love you to the horror community so I'm digging the Halloween two vibes number one number two I just always laugh I always laugh at the trope of somebody taking their own shit or their own vomit or their own the blood spewing from their vagina and they then they write like offensive words on the wall that's right yeah but they're never that offensive like they're never poopy poophead right there they're offensive enough that you get what's going on but they're not gonna get Victoria Hayes canceled they show right you jerk in shit like if they're a demon wouldn't they write like really offensive shit like I'm allowed to say this like wouldn't you write fag like oh that's Regan was 11 years old and said more offensive shit than this right right he said right these fucking genziers Victoria Hayes so easily offended when they're writing contour on the on the wall with their own vagina blood so much is too much I'm telling you can't deal look there are things I like about the sending sequence but they're what what I saw in the theater it was definitely a vibe of like this movie just was they just had to throw something at the end here that was just like let's just let's just do this fucked up let's take our hero from the first film like the only survivor and let's crush her spirits a little further you already have the worst life possible let's just make it even more so right we're also gonna kill your cat too like now going to the glowing eyes thing for a moment there was a theory I read a line because art has it the pale girl has it now she has it do you think in a weird vampiristic sort of way art is creating his own little clown demon army like ICP so can I just tell you something about ICP you sure and I'm sure that the people I'm sure we have ICP fans out there one of my favorite insane clubhouse stories is that I went to I used to go to horror convention in Boston all the time called rock and shock you remember rock and shock it was amazing and they would always have like ICP or an ICP cover band on the last night of their run and you could always tell when the fans were showing up you know when the ICP fans are showing up because you'd be walking through the convention and then you'd notice that like some heavily tattooed horror fan would like pick up their kid and like you know like put him in a car seat or they would like quickly like shut down their their little sales booth and I'm like where's everyone going like a fucking tumbleweed we were all through and then I'm like I smell fucking weed oh no the ICP fans are here the juggalo's yeah like we will like grab their kids like we got to get out of here oh darn it there they go quick Susie fell just leave her behind she's a casualty now she's one of them right she just turns she like looks back at the camera and she's got the clown pater face they got to work oh no Johnny who killer just shooter she can't be saved so so it's in seriousness what do I think is happening with this yellow eye I think the little pale girl has possessed her I think the little pale girl's gone and I read that theory and I don't know if this is a true spoiler or not but I you know one of the challenges they have with a kid that's in a movie especially a little girl like her is that she's aged up quite a bit since the previous two years she's gonna grow yeah and that's okay for Jonathan because you know he's supposed to grow but she's not because she's you know some sort of immortal demon so the one of the ways they're gonna get around that is by having her possess Victoria who I've heard is supposed to be all over the third film and I'm if she's teaming up with art I'm in for that I'm in that's fine I'm not sure and I know this is one of those things that they're going to explain in the next movie and the trailer actually hints of the girl explained in the next movie I don't know what possible method could be for the pale girl running off of their heads and then she gave birth to it that doesn't fucking compute I yeah I guess it was supposed to originally grow out the back of her head but then malignant did it and so day mainly I changed it so there's a spot spoiler for malignant sorry but that's fair this because that actually if he had grown from her like a tumor that would have been much cooler in my opinion I think that was the right way to go but also the right way to go to not look like you're copying somebody else's shit so good job I think also originally it was just supposed to kill Victoria Hayes which again would have been good it would have fit within the terrifying universe of these cruel fates that like even this woman that went crazy and even though she survived the first film and fought back she still is this fucking horrible fate but my understanding is and I don't have a problem with this you know actors like each other they all happen you know it happens I guess he really likes working with that actress and so they they wanted her to be in the third film you know what known for that they didn't want to recast her you know it's a teacher at the university that are the clown cuts that off they wanted her to play that role again and so the birthing scene allowed for that as opposed to you know having art clown pop out of her head and just completely destroy her so the idea I get it she's been being rebirth but I just don't know whether they only birthed his head and not like a little fetus art with a large clown head like they could have had his whole his whole head his human adult head on a little baby body and that would have been funny as fuck and then he was just thrown into himself and then fade to black yeah so I think with the trailer I think this works a little bit more for me now because I've seen the trailer and they've addressed this scene you know they've shown in the trailer are its headless body walking around and they've shown the head like sort of other bodies and yeah and so like okay I see where you're going there they're gonna have to do with this little thing in the beginning where you know the head and the body are gonna get put back together I'm fine with that but it makes this scene work a little bit more in my brain than it did when I saw it because I was just like I like I walked out of terrifying to be like this was awesome I don't know what happened and that's the funny part as I said before this I give birth to his head we all wink at the camera and scream fine whatever I left going I don't get it but it's I'd find the one thing with the sword is the thing that caught me up in this whole film and took and I think that's one of the reasons why I bothered me so much to is it's like everything else I could shrug off and go yeah you know even if it doesn't make sense I don't fucking care but that that one just took me so far out of the film took me away from the world that I was in I guess it just fucked me up but to this point I laughed at this I thought it was fun I love that she's back in it I love even more that she'll be back in the third one and have a stronger presence there I love seeing Chris Jericho in it because that made me laugh my fucking nuts off and apparently he's coming back for the third one too because he's in the trailer so I think that other orderly gave me just the Halloween vibes because she looks a lot like Annie yeah it looks a lot like Annie from the first one so it's just like man I am digging the fucking John Carpenter Halloween vibes here in this ending. Love that. Alright Leo so take it away what are your thoughts on Terrifier 2? It's been a very interesting ride what I should have done is go back and listen to our episode we did where we covered this before but I did not and I don't know if this will end up be my failing or my detriment I thought it would be funnier or at least more engaging for myself to get this episode done and then go back and listen to it and see how my opinions differed from what I had said before rather than be tainted with the original opinions who knows how that'll play out all of you get to play that game with me we'll see how it goes in the meantime it's crazy how art began his life as a one-off character in a short film to being in a film dedicated to that character to now having his own franchise and he's experienced an evolution unlike pretty much any other horror film before him has done there's not a lot of characters who have had this life who have been able to rise to this level and not get sequelitis you know Freddy, Jason, Chucky they got infamous only because there was so many fucking films throw down her throat about them this character we were talking about Sienna earning her way through I think he's earned his way through as well and I think that's very fucking impressive it's interesting as I said before how some of the mystery of this film doesn't bother me I enjoy the conversational conjecture around it on the other hand the thing with the sword and the magic Sailor Moon bullshit and all that coming back to life with no explanation I found frustrating and I read I don't know why even two years later and I'm not as upset about it now as I was and talking about it today with you if the third movie goes into full fantasy mode and they're like alright the sword shows you like Excalibur or some shit like that I'll wash my hands of it I'll be fine but I am more able now to take a step back and go with a wait and see approach than I was when I walked out of the theater yeah especially because Terrified 3 is coming around the corner so you know it won't be very long at all before I either applaud this or scream louder about it there is an element of this movie that leaves us wondering what story they're trying to tell story and character work was a lot better than it was in the first film you walk into this film with a lot of questions from the first movie and it gives you just as many or more questions walking out of it without answering very many at all as we talked about before and that's a double-edged sword when done right it can really lead to something big when done wrong and I admittedly feel in some ways it was done wrong in this you're not really making a strong second movie as much as you're making a bridge to a third movie and that's not the same thing that doesn't mean it's a bad film that doesn't mean it's anything to push aside and forget about but in a trilogy it's really rare for the second and third film to be equal or greater than the first it's even more rare when the second film has power behind it because that's usually what they do they make it a bridge to the third story that they want to tell like well we got to get this one out of the way so we can tell that one as opposed to just making three strong films I think this is a strong film I think it's a very strong film I think it has a lot going for it some of it annoys me some at least me going what the fuck but none of that I see as a detriment to the film that they made I see it as a work in progress having learned so much from the first one having listened to the people from the first one and implementing all of the best parts and leaving out all the shit parts even all the way back to his 9th circle and everything else I think the third one is going to be the culmination of everything he's learned and give us something that we've never seen before and I'm looking forward to that yeah imagine the world where the third one is the best film I know right it has the potential to be yeah and I don't go into it that way you know I hype can kill a movie and so I keep my hype under control when it comes to terrifier my story around this movie is just so strange to me because I remember seeing the first movie not all hell's Eve but the first movie on to be or YouTube or something I remember seeing that face and then I went on this journey because you picked the film you thought I was gonna hate it which was the sort of the funny joke because while I liked clown better just as a better it was just a better movie all around I didn't hate terrifier it intrigued me I was fascinated by a movie that was so well made on every level except for the script that just really blew my mind and so I was really hopeful for terrifier too I thought man if they could just make a make a strong character for you to care about and have some kind of arc of the film this could work this could be a fucked up movie but it could work then I saw all hell is even you know I liked that for all its strengths and flaws you know what I mean I liked that too and I'm like what's happening here you know this is a movie series that I wasn't supposed to like and I saw terrifier too I loved it loved it loved it loved it and if I loved it then I love it more now I on apologetically adore this movie and does it fall into the camp of I recognize the flaws and I don't care if it doesn't it comes close I enjoy the messy ball of yarn that a script that has gone from being too small to too big is and I agree with you completely the level of unanswered questions by the end of the film actually takes away from the strength of those later scenes because you're watching the plot armor around Jonathan he doesn't feel like he's actually being tortured or hurt or in danger because they're dragging him all over the terrifier trying to get Sienna to someplace for some reason so they can kill her there for some reason so that you know something can happen down the road and for some reason the sword is the only thing that can kill him and like look if the whole story here is that art only wants to kill Sienna because Sienna is the only one that can kill art I'm okay with that like that's fine totally fine it doesn't have to be super complicated in fact it can be really simple like that and that's good enough for me but I don't want at that to get away you know and again so there's these minor issues there's too many questions and it gets in the way of a really great fight sequence and it really gets in the way a little bit of her resurrection because I want her resurrection to be earned by her actions and it's just not clear that that's happening you know again if the sword chose her or if they did something where she dies for a moment and then she hears Jonathan yelcienna and she just comes back I'm in like that's that's if the whole point is for the hero to earn it I'm in maybe that there's some sort of point you know Leonie's trying to make of saying like hey she's just not powerful now she's got to have a sword she's got to have somebody else help her okay we'll get there but I don't want what annoys me a little bit to get in the way of what I adore this movie's funny it's super fucking funny it's got amazing kills in it it's got some of the best gore effects I've ever seen in a long time it's got these great tense preambles to the kills that I think those are some of my favorite parts of terrifying movies I told you I love the pizza scene in the first one I love the scene of the trick or treating in the second one I love that scene with Ali she's killing that scene it's so uncomfortable and it's so off-putting the way he's like pushing past her boundaries I really really enjoy that vibe to a terrifying movie and this talk about vibes the Halloween vibes to this movie and the like burnt blues and oranges and purples this is just fucking this is this is really speaking to me this movie just looks fantastic and it blows my mind Leo and I know you agree with me on this that this movie was made for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars not to interrupt but I would do one is just touch on that point we've said it many times in the couple years we've been doing this a movie doesn't have to cost a lot to look amazing and this is fucking proof of that I about fucking fell over and died when I found out that terrifier cost thirty thousand dollars I was like I cannot believe a movie looks and sounds this good at thirty thousand dollars that has this good acting and this incredible soundtrack and this just beautiful cinematography say what you all about the script everything else was pitch perfect thirty thousand dollars for this to me two hundred and fifty thousand dollars which really some of it is just that movies longer and they wanted to get a few you know they want to get a few you know they want to get Chris Jericho and they want to get Felicia Rose in there you know people you know that David Howard Thornton's gonna get a little bit of a pay bump you know what I mean I know so on and so forth yeah and you know what the next movies cost two million and it looks fucking incredible like oh yeah it looks incredible how is it that we talk about these movies Leo that come out I was just was seeing I was just curious pray we pray which I did not see I've seen a bunch of scenes from everybody's told me it's really good it's on fucking hula means I'll never see it but 60 million dollars for prey from what I saw terrifier to look better I can think of a million movies that we've covered that didn't look this fucking good right at two hundred and fifty thousand dollars so I just that's just blows my mind let me land on the heart of the soul of this movie which is David Howard Thornton and Lauren Lavera they are so fucking good in this movie they are so fucking good David Howard Thornton has just found this physicality to art the clown and this way of making him both charming and hideous all at the same time I would never want to run into him I would be nervous if I saw him dressed as art the clown and I had to walk by him in an alleyway it just never ends well and yet it'll be probably pretty fucking funny when we get there he's done dress up photoshoots at conventions so I'm sure he has I'm sure he's got the fucking sunglasses and everything and Sienna I say it again I never thought in my wildest dreams that terrifier to this fucked up horror movie that was making people throw up in the aisles would deliver me one of my favorite horror heroes of all time just a insanely likable three-dimensional character that you find yourself rooting for they did it they somehow took a series that has had three movies to establish the villain and for this villain to be charismatic and weirdly likable and find a hero that I wanted to kick his fucking ass and man oh man am I excited for them to fight it out again because I love both of these characters equally that's my problem that's my problem is that I like both of them equally and so just a big big kudos to her she really earned it she did a great job they hired somebody with acting chops they hired both of them have great like physicality and you know David Howard Thornton comes from miming and also Lauren Lavera was like a uh I think she was a um she's a martial artist and you know she's a martial artist and you can tell like they've got the acting chops and they've got the physicality to play these roles and they just do such a great job but there are so many great supporting characters too sorry everybody that hates terrifier too I read I read the reddit you guys fucking hate it I you know what we've said it many times before people are allowed to love or hate what they want it's fine I don't have to agree with you all and half the time I'm being very playful when I say go fuck yourselves the other half I'm not you can choose which one you fall into doesn't bother me yeah but this film I can understand why some people of some sensibilities aren't going to like it but here's the thing this movie isn't for you it's I totally agree yep and you need to stop screaming about a film that has nothing to do with you because it's none of your business let us enjoy it and shut the fuck up about it you know what I even want them to be offended by it let them let them let them don't care it tells me who my like who my people are you know it's like you know it's like it's like the fact that I love basket or the green inferno like these harsher horror movies like what I meet other people that are like oh the green inferno is like a really fucking good movie I'm like we are friends like yeah here's a thing too you and I don't always agree on the films we love but we're still pals it's fun it doesn't matter right then there's this group of people who's like hey if you like that thing or weirdly enough don't like that thing we're enemies and I don't get that attitude and I have been ostracized enough as a horror fan as a kid like Jonathan who grew up loving this shit as somebody who just wanted a hobby that fit my lifestyle and had people literally abuse me for it that I don't give two fucks if you don't like this film because take it I've had it for years now it's your turn go eat a dick get a spoon eat my ass I don't care fuck yourself oh and Leo I am so hopeful that people protest terrifier three oh yeah it's only going to add to the fire of that film oh the Christmas thing if you can't say oh god oh oh please tell me please that I just I've never had the chance to walk into a film with people holding up signs by the parents of miles county does not I will take selfies of me in that picket line or walking through that picket line or whatever I don't care I would love that the magic world of terrifier to when people were throwing up in their you know in their bags and everybody was getting sick and and then and then you were having weird people come out and love it like it was so bizarre to me that I don't know if it was on the view or it was a morning talk show but there was a really interesting thing that happened where remember Jerry O'Connell yep you know so Jerry O'Connell nothing against him he was in a couple horror movies he was in Scream 2 I think yes but um he got caught in this weird position where on this morning show somebody asked him they were like oh which movie did you see last time he goes I wouldn't saw the movie terrifier too because me and my wife like horror movies and people really right and people with people asked and they were like oh would you think of it and he was like people really shouldn't see this movie but I loved it yeah yeah it's like I loved it my wife loved it I loved it like we loved it and and just to watch the reaction of like in what world did we think Jerry O'Connell was going to make a person like I was like I loved Jerry O'Connell yeah it was such a time to be alive it was a great moment to see the juxtaposition of him supporting it and all the fans are rallying behind him and then all the Christians and whoever else vilifying him for even saying the name of the movie and I'm like this is great this is like being at the first screening of the exorcist oh I totally agree and I really do think I think people got to brace themselves I think terrifier 3 is gonna I think it's gonna bug some people it has to I think terrifier 2 had the advantage of nobody really knew first terrifier remember what made like a million or two dollars that's it we knew it but you know most people don't know what that movie is terrifier 2 made a mark and even though 15 million dollars is still you know that's the catering budget of smile 3 but you get my point which is that I do think that people have to be prepared that terrifier 3 might might take some heat this is what I said in I think the last episode or early in this one where how do you top this you have to that that's the thing you you get so big and you get so controversial and you get so outrageous with what you do you have to take that next step and do even more the next time which means this third one has got to fucking blow everyone's mind which is going to cause hopefully protest which is going to cause Outlash it's going to cause all sorts of shit that is only going to make it a stronger film if you strike me down I will be stronger than you've ever thought I could be that's what this is and that's what it needs to be and I'm super fucking stoked to see it happen before we go can I just ask you because we talked about in terrifier what we wanted to see in terrifier 2 and we cut a nail day what do you want from terrifier 3 this is not to take away from anything that you're talking about or like or dislike or desire I don't give a shit if you kill Santa or not I think that'll be fine but I think there's bigger stakes in the movie I think there's something more outrageous they can do than that I couldn't imagine what it is at this moment but I think they can go bigger I think they can make it happen I think he can get a lawnmower and go into a fucking nursery and just kill a bunch of kids he will find a way to do the most outrageous over-the-top borderline vulgar thing and I want that to happen I haven't seen a movie take the limits and push them that far in a very long fucking time outside of these two films and I just want to see how far he's willing to go especially when he's so insistent that he won't let a studio touch this movie because they won't let him do it the way he wants to do it that says something big is on the horizon I'm stoked for that I want to see the fight between him and Sienna slap I want this to be I don't even know the word it's so big that beautiful blend of I don't want it to take forever so that it draws out too long and gets shitty but be just long enough that it really earns its place for the third film you know I'm saying yeah I want that and I want something for Jonathan to do other than just exist in the movie I like this kid I like this character and if he is going to be the figurative Mary Sue insert for me at that age as that kid as that person I want to see him in this movie in a way that makes me go that's who I've always wanted to be in the world do you mean audience surrogate because when you say Mary Sue Mary Sue is somebody who can do like everything whatever I said that's what they call like the girl in Star Wars is whatever whatever he is whatever he is that like like we said he's me he's you he's us he's our people represented in this film so give him something to do that makes me go that's what I always dreamed I could be so the good news is I already see one of the things that I really want this which is I want a love letter to Christmas horror and I'm already seeing that that that trailer really won me over with the uh black Christmas vibes you know and silent I deadly night two movies that I just fucking adore and and there's other good Christmas I've really become a Christmas horror convert I always liked those movies but I've really really gotten into them since doing the show it's already doing one of the things that I want it to do I wanted to answer a few questions I don't need them to be specific so in other words I'm not looking for it to answer any one or two particular questions but we can't keep adding more threads to the story what I liked about Terrifier 2 is that it was a better story and so you can't just keep adding more threads for the next movie to pull on because that just feels like tv where they're just stringing you along because they're like well we want to do seasons forever and if Terrifier is going to be good eventually it's got to end not not to interrupt but I want to add that to my list then answer your fucking questions tie your threads don't make this game of thrones we string us on forever and then shit on us at the end of it don't do that and it can be just a couple it can be just it can be further uh fleshing out what happened to ciana's father you know I don't need to know exactly why he had permission pre premonitions people have them and that doesn't get explained in movies it's fine but yeah maybe fleshing out that relationship or you know it can be a little bit more on the the demons in the world but not explain don't give me art the clown's backstory no um but I don't even need it to be about the sword or the resurrection or whatnot it can be just closing off a couple of the storylines so that we have places to go still but it feels like you actually have some idea of where this is going I mean look I want something that it's done twice now so I think they can do it I want it to be horrifying and funny at the same time I want them to find I'm that shower kill I'm looking forward to it oh yeah that's gonna be great and I'm really hopeful I've actually I said this before I've wanted them to kill a couple you know I've thought that would be an interesting dynamic and I'm I'm just hoping it's funny like I'm hoping that they find the humor um I guess the last thing that I want is also related to Jonathan and Cianna because I love those characters and I I get a little stuck because I don't actually want those characters to die even though I understand that this is Terrifier and this is kind of like a no no holds barge like I get that but I just really like those two man they they did a great job making two heroes that I really really liked and so what I'd like to see is if they do survive you know Terrifier 2 and there's a there's a world where Cianna could survive and Jonathan doesn't that'd be good for that I would be too I mean sometimes that can feel like its own cliche when you kill the character somebody with somebody yeah you know what I mean like it's it kind of goes back and forth boundaries of this movie and then they have to take it to that next step I think killing him off over killing Cianna off is the right move oh definitely I mean Cianna to me is a main character now to me Terrifiers over without her and I know that that's kind of sacrilege but they they won me over with her I I kind of can't imagine the series without her now so you could do that but if they're gonna keep them both alive they're gonna have to work a really good balance and giving them a compelling story and making the other kills really good yes because what you don't want is a world we're just sequel after sequel Cianna and Jonathan go to the next set of like cousins and aunts and uncles you know and where they where the cloud just comes and kills everybody and then like they move on to the next you know like wayward wayward home for horror heroes and at this point it just becomes fucking Coyote and Roadrunner you're just doing the same shit over and over again killing yourself with the same rocks and rockets and what are you doing right so you gotta you gotta have a compelling story there and that's gonna be tricky but you know some movies have done it there are movies that have had good heroes that have lasted for a couple movies or lasted for a while also it doesn't have to end with Terrifier 3 but please day me Leon you're very talented you can make other horror movies and the story before it sucks yeah I agree with that completely get out while it's taught and don't worry about it yeah we don't need Hellraiser 9 like Terrifier 22 that's not necessary yeah we don't we don't need this even if you stopped at 3 and then six years later picked up a fourth one cool you know what I mean yeah that you're talented dude like you could make other horror movies like you could fucking kill it so I'd love to see them yeah exactly fuck that in a heartbeat that was that was Leo's plug I know I'm just saying like I keep going please keep going I want to see more of your work it's fabulous well thank you everyone for listening to this episode we're excited who knows maybe if we have time we'll do a little bonus episode in Terrifier 3 all right so we we'll talk to you guys later bye [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]
