(upbeat music) - Hello, everyone. My name is Ashley, our post-time back, and I am thrilled to announce my new podcast on the Hopecast Network, Locks of Locks, where I will be chatting with comedians, restaurant tours, and everyone in the entertainment industry about comedy, duh, pop culture, and of course, a little bit of food. You can follow lots of laughs on Instagram, @locksoflapspodcast, and lots of laughs will be available on Spotify, iTunes, anywhere you listen to podcasts, so like, follow, subscribe, and I cannot wait to nosh with you. (upbeat music) This is the Hopecast Network. Stories and shows you actually wanna listen to. (upbeat music) - What is happening, work advisors, my name is Brad, and this is a special episode. Special edition, we haven't done this before in work advice, but we're dropping a special episode today. If you're a chimp lover, this show is gonna be for you. We have none other than drum roll, Tonya Headix, if you have watched HBO, chimp crazy, then you'll know what I'm talking about. I'm so excited, I'd say this all the time, but I'm really jacked about this episode. Tonya is a blast. I'm so glad you're listening too, by the way. If you are just tuning in for the first time, thank you for listening to work advice. We've been around for a while. We have a lot of interesting guests, but this one, she's really fascinating to me. Her show is amazing, and she is just a blast to talk to. And again, this is your first time, thank you. Please follow our show, like and subscribe. This is amazing, and I've got a question. I like to read questions at the beginning, and this question is from Keith in New Mexico. I've never been to New Mexico, Keith, but Keith writes Brad, I know you're about to have the chimp expert own. What is your favorite chimp movie? Well, Keith, I do like B.J. and the Bear. That's a classic of mine, it shows my age. Project X was a little sad, it was pretty good, but when the chimp dies at the end, it's kind of really sad. But I like a good chimp movie. I could watch a chimp movie, chimp's pretty fascinating to me. That's why we have Tonya on today. So with that being said, thank you, Keith, for sending in a message. You can email your questions, I will read them on air. Work advice for me at gmail.com. Again, if you like us, leave a good review. We don't like bad reviews here at Work Advice. Thank you, Hopecast Network. We have a bunch of shows on the network. They're all a bit different, this is just one of them. And thank you for making this happen. Without further ado, let's get to the chimp lady, the dolly parton of chimp's Tonya headaches. Okay, I am so excited to have Tonya on today because you are so fascinating to me. You are so fascinating. Like, it's just amazing what you've done. And I really just wanna get to know you. Like, we saw you on the show. But there's way more to you than what HBO showed me, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah, there's so many things I want to know. So cool and thank you, Tonya, for coming on. I really appreciate it. You're quite welcome. I'm glad to be here, actually. Thank you. Okay, Tonya. So take me back to your childhood. 'Cause I, first before I continue, I wanna ask you the proper way to say this because people have corrected me on this before and you're the expert. Okay, is it, can you say monkey? Or do you say chimp? What's the proper way to say it? Well, there is a separate category. There are monkeys, which is anything with a tail. And then eight are anything without a tail. And so chimpanzees falls in that category of a name. Okay, so me saying monkey for a chimp is not correct. No. Okay, so I don't wanna do that. I wanna say chimp. Okay. I have always loved chips. Take your chimp. Oh, you definitely love 'em. You love 'em way more than I've ever even loved 'em. So when did you start loving chips? Was it, when you were watching B.J. and The Bear? Well, you did watch that, right? That was part of it. I mean, the fascination of their with Hollywood, of course, because, you know, you see them chimp doing everything that people do, they wear clothes, they go out, they do all kinds of cool stuff. So yeah, I think that would have been my initial, but I actually started liking organ grinders, which are monkeys, small monkeys that hang out at fairs and things like that, and they collect money to do a handshake or they can do tricks and they can be paid money. And I always thought they were the most fascinating things on the earth. And so I told myself one day I would have a monkey. So I raised my kid and I started out with a computer monkey. And then I met Connie Casey and I fell in love with the chimpanzee like no other. And then I found out Connie was in distress and she needed help because she was being sued by PETA. So I went up to her rescue. Okay, are you, do you still talk to Connie? Are y'all, I was, I'm curious about that. 'Cause I don't think documentary really explains if y'all are still talking. Yes, right now Connie's having a difficult time because of all the notoriety with Champ Crazy and reliving all the stuff that she had to go through in the past, which she's not big in the social media, that type stuff because they burnt her every time she's ever dealt with them. And she's a reserved and quiet and she right now is in hiatus, but yes, she does text or say, hey, how's things going, that type of thing? But yes, we have always kept that open line of communication for sure. So you could tell on the show that she did not want to be on camera. She was not enjoying it and this definitely not her cup of tea. But for you, you're on here, you're probably, I don't know, I don't wanna put words in your mouth. Were you on there basically trying to drum up notoriety for monkey, for chimpanzees? Like this is what we do for chips. And this is why I love chips, right? Kind of, but not really. I was there because I was under the assumption per them that they are there to help us with our cause, which was private ownership. So I wanted to show everybody what it was like to take care of those kids, what we dedicated our time for, what it meant to take care of them and how wonderful they are. Because I wanted people to back us and to help us with keeping those chips in the only home they ever knew. So really, it wasn't about me putting on a show, it was more like needing some people because I was out of my ass and a jimmy. I pee to every day because I have multiple attorneys and that type stuff. And I just promised those kids that they would get to say there and I wanted them to. And that really sucks that they didn't get to. - Okay, so I do wanna get to what you just said. How many times, I'm so fascinated enough. How many times has Peter, was Peter reaching out to you? - Oh, it was relentless. Every day they were hitting us with something. I mean, something, just to terrorize us. They terrorized people. - Yeah, have you, like Jared, Jared was like your arch nemesis on the show, right? - Oh, for sure, he wasn't a person. We absolutely had a rivalry between each other and it was a personal thing. It wasn't just a professional thing. - I don't wanna get to that yet. I got some other stuff before we get to the show because there's so much more about you than just five episodes of, is it five episodes? I look forward to it every Sunday night. - You're looking for four episodes. - I was sad when it was over. I was like, man, this stinks. But, so did you ever, like when you got your first eight or chin, what was that feeling like? 'Cause it had to be the best film in the world for someone like you that just loves chin. - Well, first of all, it was scary as hell. 'Cause you're talking about grown chimpanzee and I had never been around them, but the thing of it is this honey and I did that strategically so that we could move her lawsuit so we could go on and be able to take care of those kids. Well, lo and behold, that lasted about two times and the judge denied me being admitted to the case until the third time and then I got added. So, it didn't do any good. But on that other end of the spectrum, when it comes to the kids themselves, anytime you're around the chimpanzees, it's like the best thing you could ever have. It is totally amazing. I can't even explain the feeling that you get when you're around them and you can touch their hands and you can watch them. I'm intricately put caps on bottles and hand you back things and clean stuff for you. And I mean, they are just like, they are like no other. I mean, purely. - We'll say very envious of their diet. Look at this shit. My wife was like, man, those monkeys. So, there's chimps, they're eating like McDonald's. Like, y'all were throwing them chicken nugs and y'all were nugging them. I mean, they were eating. Could that have played a part in the health of Tonka? - Well, first of all, I want to defend us by saying that was a rare occasion that we did that. It was on holidays and all of those happy meals you see and that documentary was compliments of air good, good entertainment. We didn't buy them. - Really? - Well, gosh, because that stood out to me. I'm like, wow, these chimps are eating happy meals. Did they get to keep the toys? Did they play with the focus? - They did, they did. - But that was the night before the chimps were gonna be loaded up and left out of the only house they had ever known. We decided to make it a happy day instead of a negative thing. And so, Eric and them went out and bought power aids. They went out and bought happy meals. And that's what you've seen in the documentary. - See, that's kind of misleading 'cause they make it almost like that's what you feed the chimps. - Right, but they actually, I used a fresh produce place that like grocery stores and like a restaurant to use called Proppers. And I would buy fresh produce. And that's what they ate everyday. And Monkey Chow at night. - What was, you talked about Monkey Chow on the show, right? - All right. - Did you talk about that? What is in Monkey Chow again? - Monkey Chow is a well-balanced diet that is a theological use to feed priming. - Okay, okay. - How many chimps did Connie and you have? I can't remember, was it 13 or not? Was it nine or three? - In the beginning, there was nine whenever I was up there. And then we lost one and one got sent to center for grade eight. So then we were down seven. - Seven, okay. So, Tonka was always like your, your, your champ, right? Like that's the one you were totally drunk. Has to be 'cause you snuck, you snuck Tunk out in the middle of the night. So you must've really get, I wish I could've seen that. That would've been so funny and amazing to watch you sneaking Tunk out. - Yeah, Tonka of course has my heart. He owns my heart and he always will. But all of them kids have a special place because all of them have their own personalities. They're different ages. There's different reasons why you wouldn't like them. But everybody loves Tonka, not just me, but everybody that ever gets the wonderful opportunity to get to know him, everybody. Every trainer I ever ran across that had Tonka. - Okay, so let's say it's back in the '90s 'cause that was probably Connie's heyday of like, champ parties, right? - Right, uh huh. - How much would it have cost you and I if we were hanging out to book a champ for my birthday party? - You know why I heard, Connie and I never discussed money or how much she made or anything like that? But I've heard anywhere from $300 an hour to 500 an hour. - Oh my God, I would've paid 500 bucks for one hour. - Oh, I would've paid, I would've, I did paid. That was the first time I ever met Connie. She had a baby champ that actually went to Doc Ansel's, which is one of the champ brothers, which is Tonka's son. I paid $300 to spend an hour just playing with him. - Oh my gosh, like I can't imagine, it must feel so good if you've got a baby champ. I told this to my wife, like you Tonka could have a newborn baby at a baby shower. - I could walk in with baby Tonka and everyone would want to come see baby Tonka and not the newborn. It's wild, I think. - For sure. - If you're walking around, I saw a lady with a monkey, it's a little monkey in her purse in like a little carrier case at Walmart in North Carolina. Yeah, I didn't even know they could have monkeys there in North Carolina like that. - Oh yes, I can. There's a lot of people that do. - You're in Missouri, right? - Right. - Okay, so that state is, you can have all gay men, wild animals there, right? - You can have anything that you want. - Yep. - Is that the only state that it allows us? - No, Texas is pretty liberal. Them two are the most liberal, but you do have some other states that you can have permit or you have to meet certain requirements or whatever to have them, but you can own them. - Yep. - Okay, so you brought up something on the show that was fascinating to me. You said in one year you made over $300,000 dealing being a monkey dealer, right? - Right. - Right, that is, I can't even, that's astronomically amazing for me. You don't understand like, how do you get into the, it's gotta be such a close knit community, right? Like, it's hard to break into the dealing. It has to be. - It is, it is. How did you, how did you get into the dealing? Because, is it because of your reputation? - Um, truthfully, I was just a muck mom and I was a nurse and I got it down syndrome kapuchin and I needed to do something different besides nursing. So I tried my hand at brokering and it took off really successful due to a few cut clients that I had that were billionaires that wanted eczotics and I was able to provide it for them and that just kind of took off and it went from there. - The guy in Ohio that you were working with, the one that he had on the show, he's a dealer like you, right? Like, is that right? - No, he's not a dealer. - Uh-uh, Si, I didn't even know Si, to be honest with you. I'd never met the man until the day I took Tonka up there. I only knew him through Connie. Connie had spoke to him in the past about chimpanzees because he was launching some and he offered to help us anyway that he could to help preserve the kids. It got to the point to where I knew I was gonna have to move Tonka and I wanted them to be safe and amongst other chimpanzees while I wasn't there. So I reached out to Si and he did not, bad and I, asked to help me not one time. - There's part of you that had to be like, "Should I, can I trust this guy, right?" 'Cause you didn't even, you're dropping off your baby. - Well, no, I was scared to dick. I was like, "Oh my gosh, what do you think?" But I had no choice. And there was something about Si that always put yet ease and he was a fellow chimp person and I just, I was like, "God, I love Tonka so much. "What if he loves him as much as I do "and he doesn't want to give me my boy back?" And I was like, "Well, I guarantee it. "I would have got my boy back." I'm like, "Well, not a good thing, "but I would have got my kid back." - You would have found a way to get Tonka back for sure. I mean, there's, you can't take Tonka out in the dark of night. You would definitely go over there and have a SWAT team take Tonka out for you. - Oh, I guarantee it would not have been pretty, I promise you. - So in watching the documentary, because it's, I think it's better than Tiger King. I'm just gonna throw it out there. It's really good. You, I'm like, I feel like the first episode, the first two episodes were following you, right? But I kind of feel like, and I'm not saying, I don't, please don't take offense to this. - Sure. - But the documentary at the very end of the second episode kind of turns you into the bad guy, right? - I agree. - Yeah, you kind of, you go from, okay, I see that she wants to have these champs to now 'cause the last scene you walked down in there's Tonka. We're all thinking Tonka's is either dead or you're lying. We see him and then you take a turn, right? So now do you feel like there's people that were rooting for PETA, which is weird? 'Cause I don't know, - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Against you, like. - I don't understand. - It's hard, right? Because you're, you're, like, was part of you feeling like, oh man, I'm lying to this judge right now. I know Tonka's in the basement. And I'm telling the judge, oh, that's Tonka. That's another Tonka, well, a kapucha. Yeah, a kapucha, I don't know. It's a kapucha, a kapucha. How do you say a kapucha? - A kapucha. - Kapucha, that's a kapucha. Like, were you worried you were gonna get purged? - To be honest with you at that time, I wasn't thinking nothing about anything but saving my kid. And at that time, you gotta realize you only seen a part of that hearing. There was so much more to that hearing where Jared Goodman had brow beat me for an hour. I hear he had me in tears. We fought, we fought, we fought. I found out one of my best friends betrayed me in that hearing. There was so much stuff going on. And you gotta realize, all I did was catch a pinch of my leg, kept a pinch of my legs. And if you don't do this, you're gonna lose your boy. You're gonna lose your boy. You're gonna lose your boy. And all I could think about was Tonka and what I had promised him before he lost custody of him, which was he would never have to work for anybody ever again. He would never have to do anything. He didn't wanna have to do it again. He wasn't gonna fundraise for anybody else. He wasn't gonna get money for everybody else to make money out of him. He was gonna be the important thing. And I didn't want money out of him. All I wanted to give him was ice cream so much every night and love him and give him a warm blanket and put him to bed and be there for Tonka. That's what I had promised that boy. One day I came home at 3 o'clock in the morning and I went to go see him and he was so excited to see me. And he just kept hugging me and hugging me and hugging me. And I was like, that was the ultimate promise. I had promised that boy. And so that's all I kept saying to myself, you've got to, you've got to, you've got to. And yes, do I feel bad for lying to Kathleen Perry? I certainly do. I don't recommend it. I don't want anybody else to do it. I'm in trouble for it. So yeah, I regret doing it. But here's the whole deal. I underestimated PETA. I thought they could claim their victory with the six kids, me telling them Tonka was dead. As long as they had documentation, I thought they would leave well enough alone. No. Because now that I know PETA and I know their agenda, I know they don't ever stop. Once they get you on your radar, your toast, they are the most relentless ruthless organization in this whole United States. Well, I actually saw today before we chatted that PETA's coming after Kansas City chief player, they're running back who has pet alligator. They don't think they're coming after him. And they'll probably never stop until he relinquishes. I tell him he gives it up. Yeah, I tell him he gives it up because he don't want to lose his career over something like that. It's ridiculous. Yeah, and I want to talk about Tonka's acting career, but I do, while we're talking about this, Alan Cumming plays a part on this show. And I don't really know why he's on it other than he co-starred with Tonka in Buddy. He seems to have real love for Tonka, although I question if he really spent a ton of time with Tonka truthfully. No, I don't think so. And then he had him on the set and he supposedly loved him so much, but he went 20 years past and didn't even check on him not one time. How is that? Because when we love somebody and we care, we reach out. Well, that was my whole focus on him. I was so mad at him because it's like he comes on the scene, PETA pays him to do these things like these, what do you call them? And he becomes this great guru that loved Tonka. I mean, he's adamant he's gonna offer a $10,000 reward, which we all know is PETA's money that he's offering up, but that's irregardless. The thing of it is that he comes off like he's this great, great human being that had such a love for Tonka, but did he really? Because if it would have been me, my butt would have been checked on him. I can promise you that much right now. - Yes, I do agree. Now, would you go on traitors? Could be so fun. You've heard of traitors, right? - Yes. - I would like to see you on traitors hosted by Alan Cumming. I would like to see him walk into there and see you. - I love it. I would do it in the heartbeat. - Oh, I think they could put you on there. Do you think you would be a traitor, or would you be someone just trying to figure out the traitor? - I would have to figure out the traitor probably, but I would be willing to do whichever, I don't care. - I would love to have you, and I would love to see a sit down chat with you and Alan Cumming. I would- - I challenged him on another podcast with a lady to come on and let's do it, 'cause I'm more than happy to. - How often do you sense the show? How often do you, I mean, you must get people like me who want to talk to you all the time, 'cause I was going out with my buddy and his wife and my wife, Friday night, and we were talking about how great the show is. He said, "You should have her on your pot, "I've never even thought about it." And I was like, "It would be kind of fascinating." - I bet you get hit up all the time, right? - Quite a bit, yeah, I do. - Well, thank you for one for coming on, I do appreciate it. So let's- - No, I like these, because you know what? You guys are not trying to script me, you guys let me be me, and I enjoy the talk. If you wanna know the truth, I really enjoy somebody else's perspective and from somebody else's wherever they're coming from type thing instead of it being so regimented and so horrible. - Agree. - Thank you, I do like that. You can have all the freedom to talk, I want the truth. So, Duane, that was the proxy director's name, right? - Yeah. - Yeah. - Okay. - I got, this has been on my mind since I watched it. You knew he ratted you out, right? When you called him, you acted like you didn't, but you had to know it was Duane, right? - No, no. - You didn't? - No, because you told him, right? Didn't you say to Duane, I'm gonna put Tonka down. And I thought you knew, you said that to him. - No, because I even went back on my phone log to see who it was that I spoke with that day. I could narrate it down to the select view that knew about Tonka, knew that he was living, that he existed, and tried to figure out who knew and who I had told so I could nail that person. And the only how I found out was when those US marshals hit my door. - You knew it was Duane at that point. - Nope, even though I even called Duane saying, "Hey, hey, US," and he knew, he knew. He let me play that game until the lady from rolling stone contacted me and my friend Cassandra and said, "Get them out of your house." That is Eric Good, good entertainment. And how I found out that they actually was the one that turned in the phone conversation was because Pia won against them and published that on the internet. - Okay, so Duane's a unique character with you because I feel like you and him had a bond because you both love chimpanzees. And I think he had the Sophie's choice at that point, right? Like he had to decide. I think he ultimately wanted to protect you. I think he ultimately wanted to protect you. I don't think he's a bad dude. - No, no, he was put between a rock and a hard place. - Right, I agree, I 100% agree. I do believe he was my friend. I do believe that he is an animal person and we had that in common. And I believe he knew that I loved Tonka and that it was a love story. And the reason why I think... - That's okay. - So I think the reason why the documentary kind of made me first like a good person and then tried to villainize me and then kind of turned it around was because they didn't know what they were doing with this stuff. And the three, because at first they were gonna make it like a tiger king where I'm this big ass bitch and I'm horrible and I'm blah, blah, blah and they were gonna expose me brokering animals and all this stuff. But Dwayne, I believe is the one that got him to say, "Hey, look, no, she's not like that." It is about a love story. - It is, but it's so hard for someone like me who's never touched a chin, right? I've never touched one, but I love it. When you see someone like Travis, like the Travis situation, right? Then it's, I mean, that's heartbreaking and it don't understand it. Like, do you think Travis was bought from Connie? Am I right? - That's correct. - Do you think Travis, 'cause I do think of all animals, chimps are closest to us, right? Wouldn't you think? - Yeah, for sure. - Do you think Travis just really lost it 'cause he was in a cage for six years? - No, I'll be honest with you. I have got to be around grown chimpanzees that people had in their houses when they were kids and as they got tougher and stronger and they had to put them away for their own safety and safety of others, I've seen them get very, very mad. They're mad, but I would be if I were them too and they can't express their madness to us except with how they behave. And I think what happened was Travis lost his dad. He just got big and he's strong and they should have put him safe place so that he was okay and that wouldn't have ever happened. They shouldn't have tried to sedate him. They shouldn't have tried all the other stuff that they did and Connie had always taught me, you don't call other people in. When you have an escape champ, you don't call other people in. You get them all put away and you, the mother, deals with it. - So what was her name, Sandra? Is it Sandra? So she messed up by not dealing with it, is that right? - Right. - Yeah, okay, so that makes me want to ask this question then. If do you think Tonka would eventually have gotten mad if you kept him in the basement? - No, but I wasn't planning on keeping him in the basement or that was the least of where I planned on having him. I had a building that I had started for him, but what happened was when Peter started offering rewards. - I hate to interrupt what you're doing now, but something very important I need to let you know about. When you purchase serious coffee beans, we want you to try to enjoy each brew for two reasons. Number one, because you're a part of something bigger, making a positive impact around the world. And number two, because we did not compromise on the quality of coffee, you're drinking some of the best coffee in the world. 100% of profits are donated to non-profits that are fighting injustice facing humans around the world, Wallace, that's powerful. Generous is best known for especially coffee, but the heartbeat of generous is their hope to use for profit business for good. In 2024, generous is hoping to provide coffee to churches around the U.S. to spread a message within congregations that churches care about people even down to the coffee they are serving and the people they enjoy. I apologize for that extremely long run on sentence. If you have interest in hearing more about generous coffee, please reach out to their founder, Ben Higgins, at binhiggins@generousmovement.com. Thank you and back to our scheduled podcast. (gentle music) - Okay, I know I just interrupted a great conversation, but my name is Brad and you may be listening to me or any of the other talent we have on this network at HopeCast. We wanna thank you for listening, but also we want you to like and subscribe to the show you're listening to. So when you're done listening, go on the iTunes or the Spotify and leave a great review if you like it and follow the show on Instagram and any other platforms that it's on. I think we're on TikTok. So follow us on TikTok. But make sure you leave us a review. We love good reviews here at the HopeCast network. Now, I guess I'll let you get back to your show. - Hello, my name's Kamal Grant and this is You Don't Know What You Don't Know, the latest podcast on the HopeCast network where I, Kamal Grant, go talk to leaders in the consumer package goods world because I need to know more things. I'm trying to launch a new brand called Magic Middle's and I wanna get it on all the grocery store shelves. So I'm talking to leaders in the industry so I can learn from them so I can learn and let the world know. - I'm flying drones over my house. I had no choice but to put them in the basement. - Okay, so that brings me another question I wanna ask. So your house is fairly big. It looks big on the document. - Yeah, it's 50 some hundred square feet. - Yeah, okay, that's big. You have friends over, I assume you have friends come over to visit you. - Yeah, all the time. - How? - Okay, when your son's getting on there, you can hear Tonka in the background. How did no one ever hear Tonka when they were visiting you? - People know. - But you said on there, nobody, or what was it? Did you say it or did your son say it that nobody knows what Tonka is in the basement quiet? - My son, I believe said that. I don't think that was ever asked to me but Tonka would be quiet. If I told him to be quiet, that we had to be quiet, he would be quiet. - He would be quiet. - For sure. - Okay, yeah. - Okay, so I wanna talk, what movies was Tonka in a TV show? He was in Buddy. - Buddy, pig, baby in the city, a judge is a jungle. He went through, he actually wrote a pony through the New York Stock Exchange. He was in several different commercials, different movie or small parts and movies that he didn't get headings for a lot of stuff. Tonka wasn't a lot of stuff. - So if you had to rank his movies, what's your favorite? Buddy, is he in that one the most? - He was little and, gosh, every time I watch it, I just thrive, but that to me is the classic Tonka. Every action that Tonka did in that movie, Tonka reverted back to as an adult and he knew the cues, he loved to perform and he lived in Buddy's world. He really did. That's the time that I knew him, he lived in that world. - Do like Babe, Babe's a good movie too. - It is, anything with a chimp is amazing to me. - Okay, hold on, let's talk about favorite chimp movies. Take your love of Tonka out of it. What's your favorite chimp movies? - I like Speed Racer, I like the one wild and free where they were on the boat, the chimps were on the boat, which had Oliver and us, the Humansy. I like, I like Buddy, but I also like the TV shows, B.J. and the Bear. I liked any of them that had chimps that were dressed, that Jay Muggs on Good Morning America, I loved him, with his golf club and his golf hat and him just styling and profiling. He was so cool. Yeah. There's Ed with a baseball movie. He's not a chimp, but there's Maurice on Friends. - Yes, Marcel has named Marcel. - Or Marcel, not Maurice, Marcel, yeah. - I love capoutons, white-faced capoutons are my favorite. I have probably 10 of them. - 10 of them, oh my gosh, wow, that's amazing, my gosh. - Yeah. - Okay, so I have some I wanna pitch to you. So I've had this idea in my mind for a long time. Now, I get chimps or not monkeys, but in this world, I want you to think about this movie. We should make this movie happens on it. - Okay. - Monkey cop. Okay, hold on, let me think about this. That's what it's called. A stoner in the east is saddled with a monkey cop, who the monkey cop is assigned him to keep him in line. This cop, monkey cop is a fun, he wears the badge, he has the gun, he drives the car, he's got the long arms, puts the siren on. High jinks in suit, there's a drug lord in town. Monkey cop and his monkey cop has to move in with the guy and his fiancee. If you wanna say it doesn't like monkey, we don't know his name, we only call him monkey. He is like trying to keep him in order, but they end up going to bars all the time, staying up late, partying. I feel like this would be a funny movie, Tanya. What do you think? - Oh, oh, for sure, I guarantee it'd be a box off a tent right now. Now Peter, Peter will be out for a couple of months. - Peter, Peter would be up, but I don't think, I think the rules are, I think Peter's ruined it where we couldn't cast a real chimp. It had to be CVI, right? - Right, right, yep, I'm for sure. - They ruined that for us, 'cause I mean-- - But we could use a kapucha monkey instead of a chimp because guess what? The crystal from Hangover Two and we about to do, and she's owned by birds and animals, and she works all the time in Hollywood, and they haven't boycotted her yet. - Wow, I think it's who they want and who they like and who they want to push around. - I got a kapucha and I was fully trained like that. I mean, that girl, her name's Black Sea. She's a white-based kapucha like myself. I guarantee she could do all that stuff. - Gotcha. - Okay, why do the chimps? Chimps can go to the bathroom and flush the toilet, right? - Yep. - Why do you put diapers on the chim, if that's the case? - I think it's just because if they get excited or whatever and they're not paying attention, that's kind of like a two-year-old at your potty training. They'll just go anywhere and not think about it because you know what? You have to condition them and they have to be like on it. They have to be time on task. It's like a training thing for them. So I would say that your best that is to keep them in a pull-up or a diaper, yeah. - Okay, Tonya, my producer, Jacob, and I have a debate going on right now. - Okay. - I got to ask you this. Okay, when a chimps use, okay, let's get back to Tonka. Was there a toilet in Tonka's cage or where did he go? Bucket? Did he do a bucket in there? Like, what's the deal? - You can train him to go to a bucket. - A lot of people that travel with chimps and movie sets and stuff, that's what they did. I had a pelletized bedding down and I just let him, he would sit on his table always and he'd just hang his butt over and poop in one area and then I would just, you know, pick it up. But there was a toilet just right like next door to him 'cause I have two bathrooms downstairs and he could've went to it. But he only was out whenever it was he and I. He could not be out with other people because I didn't wanna take a chance of other people 'cause you gotta realize if somebody would come toward me in a way that Tonka thought was like aggressive to me, he's gonna protect me. So there's gonna be an issue. And I just wasn't willing to take a risk of Tonka's life but for me and him, we could buddy around and do all kinds of crazy and we never have, you know, all I'd have to do is say knock it off or quit or whatever and he would just quit. But I just wouldn't trust him around anybody else. - Well, you answered the debate we had 'cause my producer said he thought you cleaned the poop up. I went with you had your husband cleaned the poop up. - No, because he was okay with Jerry, he liked Jerry, he loved Jerry, he did, but I'm his mom. You know, so he didn't care what I did, I should be honest. - Let me ask about Jerry 'cause I like Jerry. I wouldn't, like, when he married you, he knew what he was signing up for with a life of chimp love, right? - Yes, and monkeys, yes, because that's how I met him. He sold me the monkeys, so he knew how it was. - He was a dealer, he didn't tell us that on the show. - He owned a petting zoo, a mobile petting zoo and he also brokered a few zoos out and stuff. So, yes, and that's how I met him. So, no, she knew now how crazy he married into, he did not know that and how much dedication I have to my chimp, he had no clue, but he soon vastly learned, let me tell ya. - Okay, I wanna ask you, this stood out to me on the show and I want you to answer it again 'cause it was kind of mind boggling, but I get where you're coming from a little bit. You said at least three times. You love Tonka more than Jerry and your son - Oh, how many kids do you have? - I have two, I have a boy and a girl. - Okay, we didn't see your daughter, we saw your son. - Right. - Okay. That can't be, right? - It's gonna get, you're getting me in trouble today. - It can't be. - Yes, no, it is and my husband is upset about that, but I can't help it, I know how I feel. I know how I feel and that boy just, I don't know, you know, my daughter called me out 'cause she's adopted and she said, hey mom, now you adopted Tonka and we know how you feel about Tonka and we know you have Justin, your biological son. So she said, since I'm adopted him and where do I fit in? - Where, okay, so Justin, your son, he was a sympathetic character on the show. Like, yeah, I felt bad for Justin because I think you said it around him. - He knows, he knows. - Yeah, I think he brought it up, I remember, right? How does he handle that? Because I gotta say, if my dad who listens to this podcast all the time, if he said love like a cat more than you, I would be like, man, that sucks. What's, how did you, did you have to go through therapy? Like, what's the deal? - Justin knew, but he also knows because I've always been that mom that's always been there for my kids. I was a single mom because my husband passed away when they were six and eight. And so with that said, they knew. I mean, they know, they know where their place is. They know they rank very high with me. They know if they needed me, I have their back 24/7. So there was no like jealousy or anything because they knew if I, you know, they needed me, I would be there. So, I don't think they ever worried about those kids. And they were adults too. They were adults whenever I acquired Tonka too. So, you know. - Okay, so you didn't have, yeah, you didn't have Tonka when Justin was like 13. - No, so that's a whole entire different story. Now whenever I had monkeys, 'cause I did have monkeys, growing up, my kids grew up with Topoocha monkeys and they knew I didn't love the monkeys more than them. They knew that. - Okay, that makes it feel a little better. Okay, let's go back to Jerry then because let's say Jerry is having an event that he wants you to come to. - Okay. - And Tonka is, you know, wanting to go do something. Do you choose Tonka's event or Jerry's event? Am I getting you in trouble at this? - If you are, (laughs) say one if you go to Tonka. - He's got a sore side to this anyways. Jerry doesn't need me. I'm an accessory, but Tonka needs me. I'm his mom and he needs me. So I would have to go with Tonka, I'm afraid. - Like guys, I'm sorry, Jerry. I didn't mean to make you more sad, but if you're listening to this. - No, but I really like Jerry on the show 'cause he feels like he's the husband. I feel like you wear the pants in this marriage. Like you tell Jerry what's going to be happening and Jerry just goes along with him. Am I wrong? - That's not it. He came across that way. Like a good husband, like I'm gonna. - He is a good husband, but we do have a lot of conflict because he was always the only person that made money and marriages in the past. And so he used to be and the manly man. And so for me to tell him things, we do have, we better have for sure. Has he gotten used to me being who I am and what I am sometimes, but sometimes I'm too much for him. And he has to take a decompression and maybe take a value. - Gosh, do you think there's jealousy from people because you went from like, I'd never heard of you to know you're everywhere? - No, I don't know if that's good or bad for you, Tonya. Has it made your life harder? - Very hard, very hard, very hard 'cause people are jealous and they don't wanna own it, but they are and for no reason because I'm the one who lost a lot. And to be honest with you, I'm sad because I've lost a lot of good friends and I don't even know where I fit in anymore, to be honest. So yeah, my whole life has been turned upside down. So there's nothing to be jealous here for sure. - Will you go out to eat or to Walmart or anywhere like that? Is it harder for you? 'Cause people gotta be like, oh my gosh, there's a dolly part of the chips. - Yeah. - That's like, we gotta like, that's probably pretty cool, right? - I don't wanna take pictures. And I used to be able to have safari and the people that came to my safari was here for educational stuff or for the animals and I knew they were. And now for the last two weekends, it's been chimp crazy, chimp crazy, chimp crazy. - What? - So, yeah. - You should get on Cameo. You should get on Cameo. - I am, they invited me. They invited me. Yeah, they contacted that Australian outlet looking for me because apparently they had some requests. So he even helped me set it up one day while I was in the pedicure chair and they helped me get it set up. And so, I am on Cameo. - For sure. What's the weirdest request you've gotten on Cameo? Like, what's the? - Yeah, in the camera, yeah. - No, just like have talked and that type of stuff, you know? And to talk about champs, you know, that type stuff, but not really anything too crazy. - As we round this out, how is Sunset going? - Uh, it's busy. You know, we're winding down our season because we're starting to go into fall and tourist. So the tourist season here is shut down 'cause, you know, we're at a late community. But the traffic is still steady because of the chimp crazy thing. - Well, yeah. And I wanna add this 'cause I would be mad at myself if I didn't add this. You, you told Dwayne on the show. You said, "Talk is not healthy." Come June 23rd, what was it, June 23rd? - June 2nd, June 2nd, June 2nd, June 2nd. I was close, I was adding a three. I'm gonna have the talk put down. Isn't that kind of like what you were saying? - What happened was my bat had been following him. You know, he had that episode in 2021, May of 2021, and he really was having some issues. And my bat came out and he just said, "You know, he's at the point to where you're not doing him any favors." He needs quality of life risk quantity. We're having more preservation periods of the congestive heart failure and you're gonna end up in a mess here and not be able to help him and you're never gonna forgive yourself. So I think it's time you really think about that. So he kind of tentatively made me schedule June 2nd out of the day to put things on the table because he knows I procrastinated. So that was a tentative date. Was that ever gonna happen? You know, because I have to fill in here that he's to that point. And I just didn't feel like he was there. And I have to let it be that. And no matter how many people push me or no matter what, you know, people think, I have to do what I feel is okay here because I have to live with myself there after that. So I was not gonna euthanize I'm on June. - I'm so glad you said that because in my mind, I'm like, there is no way you would do that. If Tonka ranks number two in your life behind yourself, there's no way you're euthanizing Tonka. - No. - Okay. The fact that they thought you could be serious, they kept saying we're gonna have another. What was the other champ where out in Oregon Bob? Bob. Yeah, we're gonna have another buck incident here. And I didn't think that. I was like, she is so into Tonka. There's no way. I'd be like me going up to my wife and going, what have you put down? Like, 'cause you're not feeling good. I couldn't do it. 'Cause I love her too much. I think they knew better, but here's the deal. They left us play out knowing that Tonka was alive the whole entire time. 'Cause they did know Tonka was alive from jump, from jump. - The perjur-- - Yes. They have many, many footage of Tonka being alive. They knew all along Tonka was alive. For sure. They knew that he was in Ohio. They knew everything. They called me that morning. They were next door at Connie's neighbors in a control center to film all of those other chimps leaving. And they called me and said, drive safe T 'cause Dwayne used to call me T. And said, hey T, drive safe, be careful. Let me know when you get there. They knew. - Have you heard from any of those people like Dwayne or Eric or any of the production that you spent time with? - Every day I hear, well, not lately, but I used to hear not from Dwayne, but I became kind of close. No, I did become close with Jeremy McBride, Eric Good's partner. And any time I need to help to muddle through things or if I've been scared about something or if he's tried to guide me and help me through things. And he has been a big, big benefit to help me. And I talked to Dwayne not very long ago, say about three weeks ago, but I let him go pretty quick because I just can't. After watching that documentary and watching the way he betrayed me, not just me, but animal people in general, I just don't have it for him like I used to. And I want you so bad. I want you so bad 'cause he is a good guy. He is and he saved me because they work kind of make me have to be this crazy monster. And if it wouldn't have been for him protecting me, it probably would have been a lot worse. So I owe him don't get me wrong. I feel like I do, but in the same token, he betrayed me. But most and foremost, he betrayed my boy. - He did. Yes. Has there been, I mean, this shows a big hit for HBO. Has there been, has Eric or HBO wanted to do a follow-up? Like episode with you. - Was that happening? - Yeah, I mean, Eric Good did. Eric Good did ask me, maybe we should do a five. And I kind of glazed past that in the text that we had between each other, but Irene negotiated, or re-up that the other day because I seen where save the chimps have made more donations than they ever have off of this bill and off of Tonka after the chip crazy. So I feel like if anybody has any position to deal with save the chimps to get us down there so I could film me being like a reunification with Tonka, I would do a season or a five for if they would, it would be centered around me and Tonka. - So there's a possibility we could see you get to meet Tonka 'cause I was gonna ask you, have you, are you allowed to go down there? - I have a consent decree with PETA that says I'm supposed to be able to go see those kids, but they've never ever allowed me to. So they are in contempt of court, which they love to get Tonka in contempt of court. So now somebody brings it, needs to bring it to the courts that they're in contempt. - Okay, so you still, how long has Tonka been there? - Two years out of June 2nd, so a little over two years. So that was filmed in 2022? - 18, I don't know, 19, 20, I think they came in 20, but don't quote me on that 20 or 21 all the way through, yep. - Wow, I think they definitely gotta do a part five, they gotta do a fifth episode. I mean, I want it selfishly, but I wanna see it where I think it'd be cool to have you get to see Tonka in like live, like you should be on live episode. - I think so too, and I would like for them, I know they would never allow it for me to, because I've already challenged everybody since you guys think you're right, and I think I'm right, and you're at this in the spectrum, and I'm at this, and the spectrum puts your money where your mouth is. Get all your little gangbusters, get all your social media, get PETA, get everybody, let's meet up and save the chimps. Let me see, with this little girl, five, two, 130 pounds, let me go in, get Tonka, ask him to get into a transporter cage, no sedation, no sedation. If he gets in that cage, are you gonna let him go home? - That would be, that would be must watch TV if you're a chip crazy fan, just to see who would choose. Would you be prepared if he didn't get in the cage though? Would you be okay with that? And be like, okay, he's happy here. - Yep, I sure would. - You would? - Yeah, because I want him to be happy. First and foremost, he's the most important thing to me, so his happiness means everything to me. But if you read the article just like that, they put in people and his caregivers were saying that he was very much humanized when he first came to save the chimps and that he didn't know like, chimp policies and politics. Well, right there tells you that what I say is he prefers to be humanized. - But he didn't, he just doesn't know how to be wild though, right? - Yeah, he has. He's been on an island for two years with all these chimps. And if he's so happy, he wouldn't get in a transporter voluntarily. But if he voluntarily gets in there, if I say talk, let's go home, if he does, are they gonna let him go home? - That's a good question. I want to see that. I want to see alive, will he or won't he? - I would, but I mean, I'm not great. I'm well, I'm gonna put my money where I'm out there. - Did you watch Tiger King when it was owned? - I did, 'cause I know Joe and I know Tim Stark and I know I don't know Doc, but I know a lot of the players in Tiger King, and yeah, I sure did. - And so when you're watching Tiger King where you like, man, those people are crazy, there's no way I'd ever be on a show like that. And then you find yourself in the web of the director of Tiger King. - Oh yes, and Eric Good knew very well that I would never have consented to it if I would have known it was Eric Good. That's why he got the privacy director. - Why is that? 'Cause Eric Good has a bad name in the industry or you just didn't want to be made out to be like Joe Exotic. - Because I didn't want a shit show like Tiger King. - Yeah, that was, it's crazy. You're right. You don't root for Joe Exotic on that show. Yeah, you don't. - So if you know Joe, you know Joe really has a good heart and I know he's eccentric and over the top and whatever, but I know Joe back in the day and I can tell you right now, Joe is used to really, really have his head on and he knew about tigers and he did have a love for those cats and he did have stand up for private ownership of monkeys. He used to do monkey balls every year and we'd have a monkey ball at his place and everybody would wear costumes and we always had a lot of fun. And I went to every one of Joe's weddings. I went to the one with Travis. I went to the one with John. I went to the one with Dylan, the last husband he had. So, you know, with my monkeys, by the way, he allowed monkeys to come. - Okay, how close is that to where you're at? - When he would, it's about three. Well, from where I used to live, it was about two and a half hours. - That would have been a bonkers wedding. All the monkeys there, like, oh my gosh, man. That would have been crazy. - Oh, crazy, but it was a lot of fun. I went to his drag show that they had for him for his bachelor party. I mean, you know, I went to his hat. We just all hung out. I mean, like I said at that time, it wasn't like it is now. - Well, I like Tiger King, but I love Chip Crazy and Tanya. Thank you so much for coming on and spending a few minutes with me. This has been a blast. Again, you're one of the most fascinating people I've ever had on my show. Like, because you like my monkey cop idea, which is good. - Oh, that would be amazing, and I guarantee it'd be a hit. - It would, I think it would work. We could even do a cartoon version, but it wouldn't be as great. There was a show on Netflix about Elvis, Agent Elvis, where he had a champ as a sidekick. It's on there right now. - Yep. - Yeah, so what do you got planned? Anything you got planned in the future you wanna share? Find your own cameo. Cameo and I'm wanting to, because there are such people demanding to meet me and stuff, I wanna do some meet and greet. And I honestly don't know at this point. I don't even know. I've had a lot of offers for a lot of different things, and I don't even know where to begin. Truthfully. - I wanna make my way down there to see Sunset is-- - Yeah, you're too far either. Minnesota, my sister was a Minnesota, so you need to be kind of like-- - What's the drop? We'll be looking at here. - I have probably eight hours. - Okay, if I make my way down there, can I meet you in person? - Okay, come on. - Are you gonna-- - Nope, I am the only cashier here, so I meet and greet everybody that walks through that door. Everybody is shocked. You gotta see some people that come through. They're screaming. They're like, "It's you, it's you." And I'm like, "Yeah, I run this talk." It is, so if I'm not sure where you thought I would be, or like they'll be parking, and they'll see me walk from the safari over to my house to get a baby bottle for one of the monkeys or something. And they're like, "Hi, Tanya." And I'm like, "Hi." And I come back and they're like, "Oh my God, it's you." And they all want pictures, so I'm like, and they always thank me for being gracious and letting them take pictures, but yeah, no. - Okay, so I'm gonna pack the family up and drive down there eventually. And I'm gonna meet you 'cause you're very gracious. Thank you, Tanya. - You're a gracious woman, and I appreciate you coming on. Glad we got some updates about your husband and your son. That's been the job. - I'm sure my husband will think the same thing. He'll be like, "Damn it. "See, I heard you talking about it again. "And now my friends are gonna call and say, "Look, either she needs therapy, "or you guys need marriage counseling or something." But how long have y'all been married? - So yeah, yeah, it's not been that long. - Okay. - Yeah, not been that long. So you're still in the newlywed phase. - For sure. - So wait, when you said that, you hadn't been married for probably two years. - I know, right? - Oh my gosh, poor Jerry, man. I feel bad for more and more. Wait, stop. - Anyways, Tanya. Thank you. If you ever wanna promote anything, you let me know you're always welcome to come back on and promote anything. I appreciate you. - I appreciate you, and thank you. And have a great evening. - You too. - Okay. Oh, wow. I gotta say, if you haven't watched "Chimp Crazy" yet, I'm gonna ask you to go watch it on HBO Max. I think it's Max, not HBO, HBO Max, Max. Go subscribe. It's like number seven right now on the top 10 list. It's pretty big. Great show. Hopefully you got a little taste of what Tanya's dealing on there. She's amazing. Thank you, Tanya, again, for coming on. Really appreciate it. Make your way to where she's at to see her safari. I think you would probably like it. I wanna go see the safari myself. But yeah, if you're new to the show, again, like and subscribe. We love reviews and let us know what you think of the show. Follow the show. We've got a lot of great old episodes. You can revisit a lot of good people. It's been old, but Tanya was fascinating. A lot of you were like, wow. Yeah, and don't forget, if you got a question or form an email to show, work advice for me at gmail.com. And now I think I'm gonna go check out Chimp Crazy again for the second time, because it's just that amazing. I'll catch you next time. For work advice for me, my name is Brad. I will catch you on the flipside. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
