Inside Olympia
Inside Olympia - Elementary School Principal of the Year Cathy Sork
This week on Inside Olympia we continue our in-depth look at public education in Washington State with elementary principal of the year Kathy Sork. How is she making a difference in young lives? What are the ongoing and emerging challenges she is encountering? And what does she want state policy makers to know and to do to help schools like hers? From the TVW studio it's Inside Olympia with host Austin Jenkins. And welcome to Inside Olympia. This week we continue our deep dive into the state of public schools from the perspective of frontline staff. Last week we spoke with Washington's teacher of the year. This week we meet the state's elementary principal of the year. What is her secret sauce when it comes to running in elementary school, creating community, and meeting the needs of students? What are the greatest challenges she's facing? And what does she want budget writers and policy makers to know? Do you know me now? And for the full hour this week is Washington State Elementary Principal of the Year, Dr. Kathy Sork from Dorothy Fox Elementary School in Canvas. Welcome to Inside Olympia. Great to see you. Congratulations on this honor. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah it's good to see you. Let's just start with a little bit of your background before we begin. Dr. Sork has been principal at Dorothy Fox Elementary for 18 of her 24 years in educational leadership. She says her job is to help students grow, laugh, stretch, and move toward a bright future. She organizes her school around empowered student leadership and deploys visual thinking strategies to engage students both visual and cognitive skills. Her superintendent says she leads with heart and Clark County today reported that Dr. Sork is often praised for fostering and nurturing an inclusive environment in her school. So that's that's my version. Why don't we hear your version? Tell us a little bit about how you, your path into education to becoming a first assistant principal and then a principal. And then we of course got to talk about the fact you've been at this particular, this one school for 18 years which is unusual. But what was your journey like? Yeah so I'm a product of the Washington Public Schools grew up here, went to Washington State Colleges, come from a family of educators. So it's something I always knew. If you asked me in kindergarten what I was gonna do, it's gonna be an educator. When I hit high school, that's when I really had the opportunity to be lifted up through the student leadership programs of our state. So I was a little shy, I didn't see myself as a school leader and was sought in an appointed position by someone who saw that potential in me. And I got to serve in the student council, I got to attend our state leadership camp. And that really was a turning point for me to build my confidence and to see myself as a leader. And then I ran for office and continued down that path. But that's really when I knew not only do I want to be a teacher, but I want to be an educator that leads systems and as a school principal. I started out as an element, excuse me, the middle school math and science teacher and thought I was gonna be elementary but that's just where I got placed for my student teaching and loved it. Loved middle school kids and started being an assistant principal. I think if I had any regret it would be to teach longer because I just love teaching. But then I had a wonderful mentor that gave me advice that said that'll make you a better leader if you still love the classroom. And I found that I think to be true. And then so I had a chance to be an assistant principal at the secondary level and then come to my school as a building leader where I never saw that I get to be there this long. And I really see that as something I'm so grateful for to have the longevity in a single community. So this is always hard to talk about being honored and to sort of turn the turn the light on you and say but but what when you think about why you have gotten this recognition and how you hope to use the platform, what's it work here? What do you think it is about your leadership that drew the attention and and earned you this recognition? Well I think that I think because of the experiences I've had it allows me to feel so grateful for where I am. I can see that the grass I'm standing on is so green and I pick the position I have because it brings me joy. You know how a wonderful thing in life to be able to pick a job and feel like I'm contributing to my community. But I stand on the shoulders of a lot of others and including a family of educators who inspired me as building and school district leaders themselves. And so you know there are a lot of people that deserve this recognition. I wish it could be spread more readily because there were so many people that work hard and pour themselves into their school. But I get to be in a place where I get to surround myself with amazing educators who are just fierce about meeting the needs of kids. Our parent community are involved and when you get to be in a school like I do you get to build on success and you get to find things that work. I never want to be that leader that gets stale or does things because that's what you've always done. But I'm in a community that celebrates innovation and a creative idea. I get to share leadership amongst the people that I work with and and I've also had the opportunity to mentor other new principals which I think allowed the light to shine on me a little bit. But I wouldn't say I'm more deserving than someone else. I just had the opportunity to have this recognition but I share it with hard-working principals across our state. What is it how do you want to use this position if you will this honor as elementary school principal of the year when you think about sort of the platform it gives you. What message do you want to deliver? What light do you want to shine on both successes and perhaps challenges in the K-12 space today? What's your message? So the principal ship matters and what principals do and their commitment makes a difference in the impact of a school. And that I think can sometimes be lost in the shuffle. The retention rate of people you know one and four principals don't get to stay in a school traditionally more than five years for a variety of reasons. And so I like to be able to send that message to our community and our our government leaders that school leaders are important they're worth the investment they work hard they're passionate about helping each and every student get the education that they need in their school and that with the right resources I do feel like we can make a difference in the achievement of every kid in that school. And there's a lot of research that's really coming out that backs that up but it can also be a job that's fun that is filled with hope especially working with the younger students where communities really are involved if you can offer that invite you know we're on the same page as families we want what's best for each and every student we want them all to have an equitable education and and I think the principal is key in being able to help make that happen but they need help they need support you know in order to be able to be enticed into the profession and then to be able to be successful in all stages of their career. How you have the benefit of some perspective both having been at this particular school for 18 years and then in the profession for some number more how would you grade the state of Washington in 2024 when you think back on your career and at key and pivotal moments for public education the state including the McClery years leading up to you know a Supreme Court mandate that legislators fully fund public education how how are we doing as a state when it comes to resourcing public education especially coming out of COVID and with some years now in the review mirror on on McClery. Well I feel the support of our state I'm pleased to work in a state of Washington that has such strong constitutional language that shows that's a value in our community and I do not envy legislators trying to make decisions about limited funds and where they go that's that's a very difficult position because there's so many authentic needs in our state but I do find it challenging at times with certain populations so I would give our state you know I give them a high ranking order because they have a very hard job as we all do and I can feel that support but I also can see the challenges funding in regards to students serving in special education for example that's an ongoing yeah school districts have been saying that for a while but that's real and those we have kids with great needs at this time our resources seem to be dwindling you know I know that the state budget needs to vary for a variety of reasons but I am concerned at the percentage of the state budget going to education would like to see that continue ebb and flow to reflect the strength of the language in our Constitution because we need to be able to have the support to meet the needs of each and every kid and make sure every kid across our state has an equitable access to education. Have you seen any improvement on the ground in terms of special education funding coming to your school in recent years given that the legislature has been at least incrementally investing more? I think yes that's why I said why I would give them high marks I can see the effort that's being made I know that they value kids in our state but and and you know in hand in hand I think we're getting more skilled and diving into better practices to support students particularly in special education I think that we have done some excellent things with the resources that were given but I think the needs continue to rise and are outpacing the funding that were provided. So I'm also interested in in more of a kind of microcosm here of what so that was sort of a systems question what about at your school in particular when you think back to when you became the principal 18 years ago versus the school it is today how does it look different? I mean definitely when it comes to the resources that I have available to me to direct it at a building are quite small and come from a school district that doesn't have a lot of federal funding based on student population so you know is this based on poverty rates? Yes. So my school district doesn't have a very low poverty rate but that means I don't have very much discretion and everybody in terms of how I can direct programs. And again we're talking about the Canvas School District in southwest Washington. Correct. And so in terms of the difference I can tell the difference in terms of what I used to be able to have available and the kinds of programs that I could direct from my chair are less than that but but we also my particular school district has also been growing so I've been able to watch my school district be a small district and kind of build its way to a medium school district and now that enrollment is slowing you know that changes our paradigm a little bit we sort of have a new normal to get to you sort of you know navigate without the you know the increased enrollment. So. And are just to be clear are you seeing declining enrollment at this point or just a slow and slow growth? Canvas is seeing a slowing enrollment but that story differs across our state and there's certainly districts that are losing enrollment losing students and that's that's has major implications for the budget. Yeah so I feel like I felt I felt the increase after McCleary I noticed that those some of those structures were meant to fade away we also noticed when like some of the regionalization faded away from my school district and that was money the state was putting in to sort of even in theory even out right and it was always a part of the plan that it would be temporary and and it systematically exited. We've noticed the difference with our levy funds and what we can do in a local level versus how much our levy funds sometimes need to subsidize the basic education special education for example. So and you know I feel the high expectations of our community. I feel the the needs of our kids increasing and the needs of their social emotional learning needs without necessarily the resources to address you know sometimes we're not teaching the kids who were in our school 10 years ago we're teaching the kids now and sometimes the funding you know isn't always keeping up to pace again with with the cost of things. If I were a newer principal watching this interview I would want to know what advice can you impart what do you know now that you didn't know when you started so that I can skip a few mistakes along the way. Right I get the just the privilege of mentoring some new principles which is one of the favorite things I get to do and so I think some of that advice is that you know the pressures are immense to be an expert the day you walk in the door to be the expert at building culture to know everything there is about establishing systems to be able to be the expert in learning and nobody has it all figured out right away so giving somebody the at first to give themselves the grace it takes to understand a system but it can feel very lonely especially at the elementary level that often don't have assistance for other people on your your team to my advice would be to reach out to others you're not the only one that feels that way or facing those challenges but to seek out a network we're so lucky in our state to have a strong Washington associate principles group that is there for us if we if we ask so so I would just give a lot of encouragement to lean into people's strengths you are enough you are enough and and and just keep working and focusing on student-centered decisions and seek out help when you need it is there anything you are doing differently today or in recent years as principal as compared to earlier in your principal career I mean I think part of being able to be there a while allows me to layer right I have some systems that are in place I don't have that are working for us I don't need to spend time developing those which frees up some capacity to do some other things I'm very involved in student leadership I advise the student leadership because I'm something I get to do because I love it I love it it's the best meeting I have all week is with the students I think that I've I've definitely gotten better at understanding how things that I can do to impact school culture things that I can do to make the school feel welcoming activities that I can do I spend a lot of time with our parents they are key to our success and they invest so much in our school at least in my experience where I am and so I've been able to I think because of my longevity and my experience I've been able to leverage more people being involved in our school and doing things that can create that feeling of welcome that we want for all students I want to drill down a little bit on the student leadership concept because it's also something Blair Penry the teacher of the year mentioned when I asked her what is something schools could do better and and she said they could do better of incorporating students into how the buildings operate and what's going on in school but it also takes time and energy and resources which can hold back those efforts how do you how do you define student leadership what does that look like at the elementary school level and and since this seems to be an emerging theme at least in these two interviews why is it why is it so important I think that's something I'm proud of our profession that we really have changed our paradigm about the role students play in their own education and that they have they can teach us so much about how to educate them better we have to learn how to listen we have to learn how to take that information in how to prompt to be able to get that information and that's true even at the elementary level so I have like a principal advisory group we've invented some techniques to do a lot more student voting just to get student student voice and that and first for students to understand that their voice matters their voice is important that it is at added value to serving and that's at every level I think for us at the elementary student leadership sort of like it was for me part of it is helping students to frame it maybe an elementary we called it class helper but if you call them a leader that changes how they see themselves that changes their thoughts about what they're capable and that they contribute and that this is their school and I believe in my experience that I have so many examples of ways that that has increased their feeling of belonging their feeling of acceptance so I find ways for students not to just serve on a traditional student council so to speak but to be ambassadors to when guests come to support all of the be helpers in the office and the library and to be mentors to each other we have a buddy system where older students classrooms are are paired with younger students classrooms and that cross-aids mentorship that's I think it helps a student understand what they bring to the table and I think as educators we've really grown in our belief that that is true and that we can learn a lot from our students but we're trying to find the ways to make that happen most effectively. Do you agree that it's when resources are constrained it can be harder to incorporate these student leadership elements into a building? Well I think some of it is just having the vision for that that definitely was a theme at some of the state conferences and national conferences I went to this summer everybody's trying to figure out like I know I want that I want to do that how do I do that what does it look like what are some examples of schools they're doing it so I think that it's growing and I think we'll see it grow rapidly because there's definitely an interest amongst other principals and leaders to look to our students as a voice that that is important. I want to ask you about COVID and how it's a little different conversation at an elementary level than middle and high school where we're wondering about kind of the lasting effects of kids who had to go remote in the middle of their their educational experience. What what are you noticing about the kids coming in to elementary school these days who may have missed out for instance on preschool or had that interrupted? What's are there any other signs of sort of lasting effects or consequences? Yeah that's fine it seems so long ago and yet it wasn't right that we all went through that together that impacted our entire society not just kids I think we're still discovering the ways that that impacted kids but we noticed some really interesting things I mean a challenge in an elementary school in our state and across our country it's not unique to Washington is that readiness for kindergarten you know we just watched the Olympics where they got ready to run a big long race and everyone started on this starting line at the same spot that's not what necessarily kids get when they come to kindergarten they don't all start in the same spot and I think COVID just emphasized those those different opportunities that kids had and we can tell in those early you know kindergarten months who's come from a preschool and who's had those experiences to interact with others in those ways or thinks of themselves a learner whereas other kids need a lot more support so I would say we did see that in a heightened way some other things that were interesting that we saw once kids returned we saw some reading and spelling errors that we had not noticed before and we think it's because our mouths were covered up that I think that we had lost just the value of how much we learned from watching how sounds are made and how vocabulary is formed in the mouth and so so we think that that had an impact and we definitely saw an effect on students writing while we were able to do I think more than the secondary schools with online learning more kids were there with their camera on participating to some degree but we able to teach kids to write and form letters and we still see that lasting and then the last piece that we saw was this students there were differences in their abilities to interact with each other and they're interested in interacting with each other we saw like students self-help skills weren't as strong they're problem-solving abilities I think they my theory that you know they had not as many opportunities to solve problems themselves because they were you know in a limited space and their parent was right there if they were the lucky ones and others were just doing the best they could but we still I just would say are working on supporting kids social interactions as well as our academics but you so going back to sort of what resources additional resources would be helpful at the elementary school level in this state obviously you've talked about special education but in light of some of the things you're observing I'm curious about you know is it most important to you to try to get class sizes smaller or there's some additional resources or help that's needed in the building if you could just write the prescription or tell the budget writers I need these three things yeah I mean I'm understanding as I said to Blair Penry there's no fast solutions no silver vault I mean I think that it does help our K12 systems when our early childhood programs and access are strong so that more kids can start on the start of the pre-K programs programs I think are important we are really embarking on you know education has changed and since I was in the classroom and that we the initiative would be called MTSS or multi-tiered systems of support this idea that not all kids need the same and yet so how can I as one person try to meet the needs of the core group of students and layer on additional interventions and supports for students that just need that extra level of the playing field or get them what they need and then there's students that need a much more intense level and we ask we're asking the teacher to do all three of those things at the same time in the same day sometimes in the same lesson smaller class size certainly make that more possible and just having a small class size isn't the magic being I've seen people who taught a small class the same way it's not a big class and didn't see the the results but with where we're going with but you it's very difficult to employ the same strategy you can do with a class size of 18 or 22 to try to replicate with a class of 30 just becomes just there's just not the capacity to pull it off so I would say that that investment in lower class size in partnership with the additional professional development about how to provide multi-tiered systems of support that are weaved in is the way to get kids needs met what about the role of para educators and and other sort of the ancillary folks that maybe are supporting the classroom teacher that's one of the things I would like to complement our state on and I think that they that's something that's working is the investment they've made in our para educators in recent years so they've invested specifically in para educators that are instructional support and making sure that they have training they're often the people that are with our students who need the most intensity are in the most vulnerable and in previous had lacked that extra training so Washington now ensures and requires that that's available so I think that that's helping us leverage in is in the right direction I do think that I have seen magic happen when a teacher had a para educator at their discretion we were able to pull that off for a very short time when we went from half day kindergarten to full day kindergarten and that teacher being able to leverage individualized support with what they could provide and then what they could direct the para to provide so I think that if class sizes lower in class sizes isn't possible inventing new school spaces to lower class sizes isn't possible giving teachers more discretion at having a para educator to leverage what they can do and leverage expertise would be money while spent and could also get us closer to the ability to individualize for students I want to um before we get a break ask you about a theme with our conversation last week which I know you had an opportunity to to watch with Blur Penry which was about um reaching kids who have historically been marginalized she spoke a lot about having a diverse core of teachers that are reflective of the diversity of the student body and how hard it is to recruit and retain teachers to begin with much less a diverse group of teachers what are your thoughts on you talked about how not all kids show up at the same starting mark on um reaching those traditionally marginalized kids and on building more diversity into the the teacher core yeah that's I think you know that's a weak spot it's definitely a weak spot in my school that to have a teaching staff that reflects the diversity of students we know um that students benefit when they see themselves in their school when the school is um a window to others but also a mirror of themselves and that it assists in their ability to feel accepted exists in their ability to be understood um and so you know I think how do we recruit more teachers we need to make it be a job that people are interested in a job people see themselves in I think that more students that see someone like them who are diverse in a teaching role the more they'll see themselves and it will be a positive spiral um see themselves as future teachers but um you know something I can control in my building is to make sure that my school is a place where not only students belong but staff feel like they belong where we feel hope in our work or if we feel joy or if we feel connected and supported so that we can retain staff we can make our schools be a place where people want to come so we can recruit a more diverse workforce because it is important um and I think that it matters in the achievement of our students what is your overall observation as we speak now about uh because we talked with Blair Penry about the pipeline of new teachers coming in and enrollment in teacher training programs are you having a harder time these days or an easier time hiring teachers um I think that um when it depends on the time of year right that we when you have a school where people want to come you know you can find educators and then it gets into the last minute and then you know um unfortunately right now teachers are available because districts around us have had to go through some serious cuts that's not the way we want to grow our profession um and so so I think that um this next generation doesn't see teaching as uh favorable as a profession as we maybe once did that it's hard to find a work life balance sometimes when you're doing this job with all your heart and all your time and and I have to say I didn't say this to Blair Penry but a lot of people watching may say yeah but summer's off not principles well no but that but also you know teachers are there there is a misunderstanding about that it's so simplified you know teachers are doing additional training teachers do over time all year long um to be able to really meet the needs of their students and so I think that there is a rejuvenation that happens in the summer that's important but there's also trainings and expectations for further learning and different things like that so I don't I don't think anybody who's close to the profession and walks in the shoes thinks oh I do this job so I can have something or that there's a whole lot of what but but I would echo that in the principal ship I would say we're also struggling particularly with the Hispanic folks being in the pipeline to be principals and part of that I think is the amount of support that we give people as they're entering the profession the amount of time they get in their internships and the amount of time they get in that mentoring opportunity so they you know one of the ways to do that is to try to to make the pathway be shorter and faster but that doesn't always set up people to be successful when they start the career you know because it's a it's a difficult job it's the best job it is not at the easiest job okay let's just take a brief break when we return we continue our in-depth conversation with elementary principal of the year Dr. Kathy Swark back after this Teach with TVW is diving headfirst into the 2024 elections throughout this exciting election season we will be producing videos that educate and empower you to get engaged in the electoral process and welcome back to inside Olympia joining me once again is Washington's elementary school principal of the year Dr. Kathy Swark and I want to also reference something else that Blair Penry said last week which was and this kind of references back to your point about the profession and the workload and she talked about the gift of time and and so the question of my mind is how do we give teachers more time to prepare to think to be creative so that they're not just going going going going going you know that's a great question i wish i had the full answer you know i think that teachers you know it takes a lot to be in front of kids and to be prepared to make sure it's almost like you have to get in shape to do it because it's like standing up i don't think people often realize like public speaking standing up in front of people that drains you and like i said they're trying to they're you know they're amazing you know if you i i encourage people to get an understanding of what's happening in our classroom and to be able to talk to teachers that they know they they work miracles and so finding time is challenging because it takes a lot to keep the current ship going right and keep the plane fine but then how do we get to be innovative and that's where you know i thinking outside the box i'd love to see you know teacher you know teacher groups that where they you know people could get some time maybe a sabbatical year where they are a planner they're an innovator they're a thinker so how do we change the profession with creative ideas while you're in the trench but one of the things that initiatives that i try to do in my building that we've had some great feedback on is the opportunity for teachers to learn from each other there are so much expertise in each in our buildings and yet the school is built often to be a silo a teacher isn't just in their own room so opportunities for teachers to see each other teach to learn from each other our professional learning communities is as a help but finding time in a regular school work week is really challenging for them to be able to do the collaboration that would be necessary to take us further but but there's a lot of really good work happening now there's a lot of great innovation happening now i would wish that that got more attention sometimes in the headlines in the the blurps because so our schools are doing a lot great things for kids well let's click through some of the kind of hot topic issues that we're seeing discussed in this state and nationally about public schools these days one one question i have for you is about student behavior and mental health what are you noticing at the elementary school level whether that's related or not to covid but just we hear so much about middle school and high school kids especially girls social media impacts again i think the conversation probably is different for the the younger the younger students but what are you noticing yes students um you know students come to school with a lot of worries students come to school needing more skills in fact our state of washington in addition to math skills and and science skills and reading skills we have social and emotional skill standards that so we incorporate that into part of our teaching now we didn't get more time to do that we needed to do it in the time that we have but we know that a student needs to have the ability to be aware of themselves to self-regulate and to get themselves in a place that they can be an effective learner so spending time doing that gets us further down the road with the academic achievements and and those things but that wasn't a part of our curriculum right that we did before we've always helped kids that we see in need but we see kids that need that come to school needing to learn how to interact positively with each other at times we also though have learned to view differently we approach kids behavior with greater curiosity than we used to before in my many years where um what's what's that communication that that behavior represents what does that student telling so what they need or about what they've experienced or about what skill deficit that they might have it's not just the kid who's coming to school and misbehaving a lot of times and so us being able to identify the why behind behavior can we can do a much better job of approaching that through the lens of coaching and I think elementary is such a natural time where behavior is teaching and and that's a developmentally appropriate thing to do the students our age but but for for all of us being able to look closer at the reasons behind what's happening can help us address students because student behavior can be very challenging it can be very disruptive to the environment and can be very consuming for sometimes for educators who have a lot of goals of what they're trying to accomplish well that gets to the next question I want to ask you about which was ensuring fair disciplinary practices and ensuring that the practices aren't disparate and sort of evolving thinking around that I think we've grown a lot in in looking at the data really looking at where what has our practice been traditionally what outcomes have come of that and we've wanted to see change and I think those are in process I think we've done a lot to look at that differently to see the role that we're playing or the role our bias could be playing to have more equitable outcomes for students looking at discipline through restorative practices is something that I believe in and I feel like is becoming much more prevalent in our state where again it's a teaching opportunity it's an opportunity for students to try to gain the perspective of others of others to try to understand that their behavior has consequences to others and has consequences to themselves and giving them that opportunity to understand the harm that they might have caused somebody or a situation and then being a part of how are you going to restore that how are you going to make that right you made a mistake what can you do is more than just signing consequences that might have been the case before it's more than a punishment it's about helping somebody to do the best that they can and to teach them how do they make things right if something has gone wrong got to ask you about cell phones in schools even though it feels a little weird to ask an elementary school principal you'd be surprised how many of our students have cell phones I do think it's a little easier for us to implement practices that have been in place for a lot of school district which is in our case to keep them in there in your backpack uh families is that a new policy that's not a new policy um you know policies around not wanting to distract an environment not wanting to um you know violate the privacy of students and things that can happen when you have those kind of devices have been in place but can be challenging to to enforce um in elementary there's also the form of watches and many of those devices are there because they make they put parents at ease of knowing how to communicate with their or their student but um I think that the attention to cell phones in our state right now is important that's conversation to be having that I do think that particularly at the um grades beyond us they can be very distracting to an environment I think um that it's a healthy situation for kids to be able to set it down and not just be defined by having a social media device in their hand um I think that it can be um it can have a lot of negative impact on a student's self-esteem and their understanding of how we interact and so I like the idea that we're of the lean to set them more aside they're important tools and they're tools that will continue to be um a part of students lives and they need to learn how to use them appropriately but right now I think they're getting in the way sometimes of students getting the most they can out of a classroom um and they're their school day and so I'm looking forward to seeing some districts have kind of gone ahead and I think our whole state through the encouragement of Chris Reichdahl our superintendent to look at those policies our particular school district in Canvas has pledged to look at our policy and really see what we think might be best for kids in learning moving forward but not as much of a daily issue at my elementary school right um just in the past week there's been a school shooting high-profile school shooting in Georgia this happened at a high school uh right at the beginning of the school year and you know every time this happens you know people are up in arms are trying to figure out what can we do about this why does this keep happening no one principal no one school can solve this problem but as a school principal especially at the elementary school level when you're thinking about building safety student safety the anxiety of parents maybe you want to contact their kids because they're worried in this day and age about what happens in schools um that you know those events that there's no way to make sense of them it's difficult to process them even from far away and brings us all back to our own and communities our own schools you know part of the way that we address and respond is to just are we following as many best practices and preventative safety protocols are we just to staff know what to do have do we have relationships with our local law enforcement are we practicing in ways that are developmentally appropriate you know so anytime you know an event just a tragedy like that happens it does cause us to look at our you know are we doing everything we can to prepare for something that we hope we never ever use our families we can feel it in our families i know i make a special point to make sure i'm out at the drop-off area and that parents can see me and approach me and parents often have questions and feelings and are processing things that they've seen happen in other places but we try to be transparent with our families about the protocols and procedures that we've put in place we take very seriously our you know adults having a badge we do have a buzz in system you know to try to make sure that our schools are the safest that they can be but you know it but it's unfortunate that those are things that we are having to put time and energy into a matter just heartbreaking that communities have had to go through that change gears i want to ask you something i didn't ask Blair penry but it's very much on my mind is how artificial intelligence might affect the teaching and education profession i mean visioning it maybe at the higher grade levels but have you thought about this have you experimented at all is it a topic of conversation when you go to these national conferences absolutely it is it is something that people are have a great curiosity about some frontrunners are people that are sort of early adopters are trying and are now talking about their experiences i'm excited at it as a tool i think i you know we had a chance to hear from a public speaker at the national principles conference salcon who's uh innovator in education online technology and so he gave me some great insights to it that it can be a tool that could help teachers it could be help teachers to have the best lesson plan ideas at their fingertips it can help them to craft things to spend their time in a way that puts their energy on their expertise that will maybe something else handles some of the more busy work um so right now it's a thing with potential but we're it's hard to know where it's going to go um i was able to see a demonstration of the difference between asking like chat gpt for help if you were a student needing help with something versus the potential that i really has to be a coach do i think it's going to replace teachers i do not i think that any of this technology is a tool that needs a human in the front and asking of it what what is necessary setting the parameters giving it the information and then a human at the back at the end making sure it's a match um so so i think that it's exciting i think that it does have the ability to support teachers support students i think it's kind of level the playing field when it comes to writing you know writing has been something that was something that was shared with me at this national conference that sometimes is a barrier for people they have incredible ideas but they've not able to get it down on paper to to bring that forward and maybe that keeps them from advancing their thoughts and ideas and maybe i can help remove that barrier so right now it's a curiosity and it's a dabbling but um it's definitely you know a few years from now where i think we'll have a lot more insight as to the the cautions around it as well as the um just potential of how it might support do you think it will change the job of teachers you mentioned the term coach and Chris Reichdel the state superintendent has talked about this too that potentially and again i don't know if this would be so true at the lower grades but students might be more able to work at their own pace with AI kind of guiding them and then teachers coming in more as coaches and i wonder if if a revolutionary change in the actual practice of teaching is is in the often yeah i don't think i'm ready to jump that far i think there are now it's just something that has potential but again it's not going to replace a human being with a student in my opinion um but you know we'll just watch and see yeah how is how can i go but you know we talked about how do you find more time how do you build more capacity for one person to have greater influence maybe it can help um accentuate that but so i think we need to be open to it and um and see what we can learn from it but i think this is an exciting time um and a cautious time i think as we just watch those things play out for the role it plays in student learning i want to ask some of these questions that my educator friend suggested um so and i asked Blair Penry this as well what's one thing that you believe all schools can do well but are not prioritizing um you know she answered and spoke about student voice and i think that that's an that's an excellent response um i think that um i think we're on our way so i i would say the prioritizing is there but we're on our way and being more able to deliver education and multiple tiers at the same time i think that that's professional development people are doing right now um learning from each other but we you know as a teacher who faces a classroom of 25 students you know they need so many different things and so trying to learn how to be one person or one system that's trying to deliver all of those things is the direction we're going and we still have a ways to go before we get there well and and that gets to and i think you from some respects answered this bill let me directly ask what is the biggest challenge that keeps more schools from doing this one thing well if that is um incorporates into the leadership environment you know of the of the building more or just reaching students kind of individually where they're at when you're looking out at a classroom of 18 25 30 students yeah and you're one teacher yeah i think that um my honest answer is that we're trying to add more things to the plate and the plate is really full right so even people that have have just interest and passion you know they're trying to reach to these new things but there's a lot on the plate um and so trying to be able to do both at the same time right meet the needs of who's right in front of me today and be able to dream and think of new things and and we can't keep adding to the plate sometimes some things need to come off the plate and sometimes that's leadership that um that i think that i'm challenged to provide is how do i help teachers prioritize that so they can have the capacity to stretch and get into these practices that we believe in but sometimes you're stuck in the trench and it's hard to to find where's the time to get to those things is there something that we should really hold on to is sacred about the way that we educate kids and is there something that we should be very willing to put in the dustbin and say you served us well but we're moving on yeah well i think you know as one of the i've been at all the levels um elementary is just such a hopeful place um and you know we it's just but every student all the way through our system is a student with great potential and it's and being able to to just continually to believe it's possible right uh to be able to meet the needs of all these students even if i didn't get to everything and do it as perfectly as i would like or i'm still you know that student's still heavy on my mind tonight it's possible right and being able to to hold on to that um the public has a really interesting relationship with schools in that people went to school so that often makes them sort of think maybe they know about schools and so i think sometimes there's also a need to let go of the way that that the school was that you went to and to have greater openness to that school can look different and that the way that things are kids focusing on or um you know we still see some of those kind of old ways of thinking for example if a student's absent and they'll say you know well can you just give me the work they missed you know education isn't that simple anymore it's not a worksheet i can just provide from home and like oh they're ready to go and they're back caught up with their friends that the education that kids are engaged in today is active and hands-on and involved with student discourse all the way down to kindergarten it's interaction in the moment um teachers making decisions they're not following blindly this textbook and they're on this workbook page that just isn't what it looks like anymore and when you're not there you're missing it um so i think that this kind of just it's hard to let go of education the way i went to school many years ago but i think that's something we could let go of more to just be open to um to new ways and and what the education of kids really look like now what do you have an opportunity to potentially reach policy makers and budget writers um in this in this capacity is as elementary principal of the year and you know you talked about the work load and what's expected always kind of growing and not necessarily more resources to do that work what is your main message to people who write the budgets for public schools in the state and enact the policies that then you and your staff have to implement well i think that you know principles like we said you know can make a big difference in their school but the average principal in our states working six and seven days we're working 60 or more hours um that's hard to sustain and have a work-life balance so i you know continuing to support additional leadership you know assistant principals you know the prototypical school model is a is a funding formula it's not just like a staffing formula you know the staffing costs aren't necessarily a match i'm not an expert in that area but um so i would say continuing to to understand and keep in mind as a legislature the dream you have for kids and then do what you can to make sure that you have the resources to back that up and so that we can have an equitable access for each and every kid in our state that's been an important part of our state and its history you know we're quite across the river from Oregon so we get to see close by how states do things differently i'm so glad to be in the state of washington our law and make sure to have a tough job but um i do believe that our state understands that it isn't the benefit of our entire state to have a strong public education system and that many of the problems that we deal with as a society you know when we start kids on a strong foundation that helps you know we're the profession that leads to all their professions so i would say this continuing to to try to lean into the vision we have for what we want for kids and then to try to provide the support to help make that happen um with real people doing it in the trenches um which can be you know they have a very difficult job to try to weigh all those those things i would advise a lawmaker to have every lawmaker have a principal buddy um that was a an idea that was shared with me that i really appreciated so that every lawmaker could get a principal in a line and go tell me about this what does this mean what you know just get there it's hard to do to stay in touch with what that's really like um but we're all in this together we all want the same thing we want educated kids who are accepted and welcomed in their schools and are ready to be productive citizens and um we'll just keep working together to make that happen i don't know how much it's happening in washington state but clearly if you look across the country public education has been politicized and there is a real movement uh acceleration of school voucher programs especially in republican-led states there's obviously been culture wars over transgender students diversity equity inclusion programs and and efforts uh blare penry talked about this sort of the politicization of of education not a new thing probably comes in in waves and ebbs and flows but what are your thoughts or observations about that sort of more national climate yeah i'm i'm concerned at sometimes the the messaging is too narrow like where's the stories about the positive things that are happening which are so much bigger sometimes than the negative one-off kind of story that gets the attention or the individual situation that gets the attention um but you know i i i think that again even through the politics there's a common ground to be had that we want all kids to be successful i don't think there's anybody in our country that wouldn't say they don't want all kids to be successful um and so i think sometimes the politics and things can get in the way of that um i i believe that that some school choice is just a wonderful thing for some kids that not all kids are the same they're not widgets they don't all learn the same way but um but uh i don't i haven't seen the research in vouchers and charter schools being the magic thing that's gonna fix it um i think a strong public school education is important for our society that brings us together that teaches us how to be together and be with people i worry about um isolating ourselves segregating ourselves into schools that are just one way or just this way um you know so i i i i i hope that those politics and things that um luckily can feel far away sometimes from my elementary school but i just want to find common ground around kids and that we're doing our best for kids we have amazing people who show up every day to do that um and some of that stuff can be distracting to that message and i don't think is it always fair um representation of what's happening in our schools just in the less than two minutes we have left i know you've you've mentioned mentoring other principles you've done a lot of work with the Washington state association of principles what is that work both around mentorship but also around student leadership what does that work look like you're doing this beyond your 60 hours a week at your own school but what's that work look like um i i've had the the wonderful opportunity to receive some training and then to be able to be assigned new principles that are not in my district but are in my local area and i learned so much about myself i learned so many new ideas helping new principles find their way or tackle and navigate issues um so often it's just a platform to be able to talk to a neutral person to help have a sounding board to help navigate this is a very difficult job there's a lot of pressures um on principles and it's a little it's a little lonely at the top it absolutely is so i think you're talking about silos you're also siloed by building absolutely so i think being a school leader is that giving that opportunity to network giving people that encouragement um and that guidance of like i've been there before um and it is just really important for people to feel like that they're doing a good job that they are capable of this job and that they are doing great things for kids because um it's a tall order and we have very high expectations for ourselves and uh you know that's part of what makes it's good but the job the job's like water it'll fill as much space as you give it yeah i'm going to stop you there Dr. Kathy Sork the principal at Dorothy Fox Elementary School in campus Washington and Washington State's Elementary School principal of the year again congratulations and thanks for the interview thanks so much good to see you and thank you for watching inside Olympia we'll see you again next week you (upbeat music) [ Silence ]