RockneCAST

Thich Nhat Hanh and the Gift of Deep Listening (#247, 25 Sept. 2024)

Deep Listening is one of the greatest gifts that you can give or receive. This episode is about the art of Deep Listening.

This morning, I read Thich Nhat Hanh's book The Heart of Buddha's Teaching and learned about the concept of Deep Listening. Whoa this is something that we rarely do well, but when we do, it has the power to transform us in all sorts of different ways.

In this episode, I discuss the concept of Deep Listening, how to do it, and what it will do for you. I'll also introduce you to the great listener, Kwan Yin and share some awesome passages from the work of Thich.

We can't always control whether others will listen to us, but we can control whether we can listen. Listening is the first step to Deep Understanding, healing, and transformation.

This was probably one of my favorite episodes so far!

Deep gratitude to all of you for listening in.

Broadcast on:: 25 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: other

Hey guys, I was just reading Tic Nachan this morning. I had to share this episode on Tic Nachan and the art of deep listening. This may be a skill that you don't think that you need, but after reading this passage from Tic Nachan, I figured I had to do this episode because this could be transformative not only for you, but for those around you, professionally, personally, in all sorts of contexts. And after you listen to this episode, you may think, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe it." It's kind of obvious, isn't it? Yet, it is a skill that so many people fail to do, and that is the art of deep listening. Guys, for this episode, the first thing I'm going to do is tell you a little bit about Tic Nachan. I'm going to introduce you to the Bodhisattva, Kuan Yin, and why she is so important in connection with deep listening. And then I'm going to give you kind of a takeaway at the end of this particular podcast as to how you can actually implement this into your life. Well, first of all, let me reintroduce you to the work of Tic Nachan. If you want to learn anything about Buddhism, you need to start with the heart of Buddhist teaching, a book by Tic Nachan, and it's called "Transforming Suffering into Peace, Joy, and Liberation." And some of you know I have done episodes on Tic Nachan in the past. He is the type of author that once you read him, you will read him throughout your whole life because his writing is so good. Now, I don't know about you, but in my case, for the longest time, I had no desire to read anything related to Buddhism, in part because so many of the people that practiced Buddhism were kind of like, at least in the Western tradition, were kind of like a professor at some college or a vegan, and they seemed more interested in demonstrating what they knew about Buddhism than actually sharing its many gifts and jewels because Buddhism isn't just a religion. It's kind of a practice of living, and probably one of the greatest expositors of the Buddhist tradition is the recently deceased monk, Tic Nachan, in his book, "The Heart of Buddhist Teaching." Now, Tic, who is Tic, let's be on the scope of this particular episode, you can look it up, but he was a Vietnamese monk who writes about very complicated topics in just the most fluent, dense, in the best sense of the word and impactful way in which when you read his work, you can actually listen to it. Now, let's get to what we're actually talking about. Why is deep listening such an important skill? This may be one of the most important skills you have in your professional life, in your personal life, in your relationship with other family members, because so much suffering, so many bad things happen when you don't listen. Now, some of you who know me may be saying, "Oh my God, Cole's giving a lecture on listening. Yeah, me. It's never too late to learn a new skill." When I was four, I liked to talk so much that I frequently would tell everyone not to interrupt me, so I could get my point out. When I was in law school, during a mock interviewer, the interviewer gently chided me that, generally speaking, it's not a good idea to interrupt the interviewer. So yes, this is something that I've struggled with, but the art of deep listening is probably one of the most greatest gifts that you can get, and this may be one of the most important podcasts that you'll ever listen to, because number one, it's going to put you on the work on the path of Tic Nahad. Number two, if you learn the art of deep listening, you will be able to help a friend, help a family member, help a loved one, and you do not need a therapy degree to be a listener. I think the point at which you actually need a therapy degree is where you start giving advice a mental health, or where you start getting paid for it, but anyone can sit and look at someone else and listen to them. Anyone can do that, and this is a very, very valuable skill to develop, and I'm going to show you, and quote from you, some of the readings that I did this morning on Tic Nahad, and I just had to share it with you, because it is so good. So first off, let's remind you, those of you who are diligent listeners to the racking cast know the four noble truths of Buddhism. This incredibly good and obvious, but so often not practice. That is the art number one, the art of life is suffering. We all suffer to some degree. Number two, you need to be mindful about the source and origin of your suffering. Number three, you need to stop doing those things that make you suffer. Sounds obvious, but we don't do that. So if you have a problem with your lungs, stop smoking cigarettes, you need to be at least think about that. I know it's not easy necessarily to stop doing that. And number four, you need to practice the noble eightfold path. So this morning, I was reading one aspect of the noble eightfold path, and that is the right speech, speaking correctly, speaking in a way in which you don't cause consternation to other people around you. It was in this chapter on right speech that Tech talked about deep listening, the ability to listen intently and deeply to those around you and those that love you and to not interrupt them and to be present with them. That may be one of the greatest gifts that you can give that person. And so here I'm going to quote from this particular passage, and this will give you a little taste of how good Tic Nothon's writing is and how it can transform you in your day to day life. So here Tic writes, "When communication is cut off, we all suffer. When no one listens to us or understands us, we become like a bomb ready to explode. Restoring communication is an urgent task. Sometimes just 10 minutes of deep listening can transform us and bring a smile back to our lips." The boat Hisatva Kwameen is the one who hears the cries of the world. I'm going to push the pause button and explain to you what a boat Hisatva is. I had no idea, like if you didn't know what a boat Hisatva is, don't worry. I had no idea about this either, but a boat Hisatva is an individual who seeks awakening. They're on the path to becoming like the Buddha. They're not quite there yet, but they're one who seeks awakening. They are a boaty. They're one who sees the world more clearly, sees the joys of the world, sees the suffering externally and internally, and they're on that path. Now I've seen other definitions that say that the boat Hisatva is someone that doesn't enter Nirvana, but it's just before that so that they can be present with other people or suffering and share the many things that they've learned on their way. Now I don't want to get you too sidetracked on the question of, "Master, what will it take me to get to Nirvana?" No, these are practical brass tacks pieces of advice that you can employ in your own life. And so here he describes the boat Hisatva Kwameen on the art and the importance of deep listing. So who is Kwameen? Kwameen is the boat Hisatva, is the one who hears the cries of the world. She has the quality of listening deeply, without judging or reacting. When we listen with our whole being, we can diffuse a lot of bombs. If the other person feels that we are critical of what they are saying, their suffering will not be relieved. When psychotherapists practice right listening, their patients have the courage to say deep things that they have never been able to tell anyone before. Deep listing nourishes both the speaker and the listener. But this is incredibly difficult to do. This is something that so many of us fail to do in our own life, including yours truly. But if you don't practice the art of deep listening, there's so much that you can miss. And you're a student, there are some students, I don't really get into the conservative students go to college and say, I don't want to hear a liberal professor or a liberal student goes to class and says, I don't want to hear anything that conservatives have or I'm going to be triggered. I don't want to be challenged. I don't want to listen to someone who thinks differently than I do. Or you have a conversation on religion and you refuse to listen, truly listen. Notice what Tic says without judgment or reacting to truly listen. You know, the author, Stephen Covey, one of his best phrases in his book, Seven Habits of Effective People, talks about the importance of seeking first to understand before being understood. Now I would just kind of say as a collateral matter that if you're in a situation with a family member or a loved one or something like that and they refuse to listen to you, well, that is going to be their choice. And if you're trying to figure something out where they refuse to listen, then most likely you're not going to be able to get a lot of mileage with them. But that's going to be their choice. The artistosism in the Western edition, which is closely linked to Buddhism in the Eastern tradition, focuses on what you can control. So the act of deep listening is what you can control. You can control not interrupting. You can control truly listening to where that other person is coming from without judgment or reservation. And you can give this tremendous gift to the friend or family member that may be suffering by truly listening without reservation and without judgment and just listening without attempting to argue without attending to think about why you're right. But to truly listen and control what you can control. And then if that other person won't do that, that is all of them. But the art of deep listening is something that you can control. And this is through the Bodhisattva, Kuan Lin, and then he continues. Many of us have lost our capacity for listening and using loving speech in our families. It may be that no one is capable of listening to anyone else. So we feel very lonely even within our own families. That is why we have to go to a therapist hoping that she is able to listen to us. But many therapists also have deep suffering within. Sometimes they cannot listen deeply as they would like. So if you really love someone training yourself to be a listener, are you listening to this? Isn't this good? I have a counselor. He is freaking awesome. He had some issues with his back. So I'm trying to get him to be my life coach now, but he's just he's had some real issues. He's not available. But this made me think about why we go to therapy, you know, mostly there's nothing magic about what you learn in therapy school. Most of what a good therapist does is just listen without reservation or judgment. Now if you have a good therapist at the end of that listening, they will give you an insightful content or feedback to lead you on your way. But notice what he says here that a lot of people cannot listen very well. And they in some cases, your therapist may suck. They may only listen, they may interrupt you, they may give you feedback that's not pertinent to your own life. So here's where we go to the great therapist in the sky, God, you can talk to God. I just did a podcast that no one's listened to yet on the great lament, the Martin Copeland Haver's book and the question that Jesus asked on the cross. My God, my God, why haven't you, why have you forsaken me? But then Copeland Haver connected it to Psalm 22, in which he said that God does respond if you crawl out and ask. And so you can always talk to God, the therapist in the sky, the creator of all things and the question that you have to do, we know that God is listening to you. But are you listening to God? That is what I ask you. Are you listening? You know, so often we think of prayer, and what is a prayer? Prayer is where we are talking, we are asking, we are praising, we are communicating with our Creator. But so often we talk about prayers that are unanswered. Well, God, as far as I can tell, sometimes God intervenes in our life where it's very direct, like when Jesus actually came down in 1st century Judea to talk and to give us advice and to provide parables, and we can always get those words of God there in a very concrete way. We can also read the Apostle Paul, one of the greatest communicators about God of all time, so we can get that tangible information. But the question is, when we pray, do we actually listen? And how do we listen? Have you ever thought about that? How do we actually listen after we pray? How does God communicate to us? Well, I can tell you, you're not likely to hear the voice of God if you're not listening. Okay? So you have to listen, you have to listen to what he is saying, and how do you listen? You listen in moments of silence. You listen while you're not checking your phone, I doubt God is going to be able to listen effectively to God if you're constantly checking your cell phone. You have to listen in silence, and most importantly, you have to practice listening. And the best way to listen is when you, yourself, are silent, and you can be silent by tapping into the power of early mornings or finding five to at least probably 15 minutes where you can practice listening to God. But I promise you, you will get insights to your prayers if you truly listen, and you can listen by also writing a letter, write a letter to God in the form of your own journal. And then listen in moments of silence to that response, and I guarantee you, you will hear the voice of your Creator, but it's not only about listening to God, the great therapist in the sky, who is always there. He never charges you, and you can tap into the fundamental power of creation. How awesome of that, but it's not only about listening to God. You know, when I do this podcast, so you guys don't hear a lot of distractions, I shut my windows. When I'm done, I open the windows, have you ever opened the windows or walked to a park and sit in moments of silence and listen to creation, where you can hear the word of the traffic, you can hear the birds, you can hear the leaves rustling, you're listening to creation as it is. This is one of the most beautiful things you can experience. But to do that, you have to train yourself to listen. Do you have a loved one, or family members that's going through difficult times? Guess what? You don't need a therapy degree. You can listen. You're not going to get in trouble. No one's going to punish you if you listen to that person. Now, obviously, if they have a mental health diagnosis, and they're like schizophrenic, you can listen still, but probably need to refer them to a psychiatrist. But for the most part, yeah, you can listen. My counselor is so, so good, but mainly what I've loved about counseling session is just one he listens and number two, it's confidential. No one else is going to listen. No one else is going to know what you're saying. It's completely confidential. It's like a way of emotional discharge into your, to get it out of your system. So it's not all plugged up. But keep in mind what you receive, you must also give, and any of us can give this great gift of listening to a friend, a family member, or anyone else. And all you need to do is look at them, practice, not interrupt, and not express judgment. And that itself can be so, so valuable. So that's basically what Tech says, you can be a therapist. You may be the best therapist for the person you love if you can train yourself in the art of deep and compassionate listening. But you also must use loving speech. So it's kind of the yin, the speech is the yin, the gang of listening. We have lost our capacity to say things calmly. We get irritated too easily. Every time we open our mouths, our speech becomes sour or bitter. We know it's true. We have lost our capacity for speaking with kindness. This is so crucial to restoring peaceful and loving relationships. If you fail in this training, you cannot succeed in restoring harmony, love, and happiness. Now with most things, it takes two. So if you have a situation where the counterparty isn't willing to listen to you, probably it's not going to be a particularly helpful phenomena. And you may have to either not talk to that person or just move on or just ignore them and create your own boundary, but before you arrive at that conclusion, assure yourself that you yourself are not the one who's causing the consternation. And you can do that to make sure that you have all of the facts, all of the emotions, all of the source of where they're coming from in what they're experiencing, the only way you can assure yourself is that you have all the pertinent facts. You know, one of the things that a lawyer, a doctor, an engineer, an architect, a politician does in order to completely diagnose a problem is to listen. So I cannot give you an opinion on a legal matter until I've listened to you and I make myself clear that I have all the relevant facts. Without those facts, I cannot give you my feedback. A doctor, if they're not truly listening to what your symptoms are, they cannot. And that takes time. So this notion of a doctor can take your blood pressure, listen to what you have to say, get you out in 15 minutes, build a case, that is not health, that is not well-being. So here we conclude with the more on the work of Quan Yin, the person who has the great capacity with listening, and it's totally free, number one. And number two, when you don't listen, you are likely on the path to misery. And here's what Tic writes about in Buddhism. In Buddhism, we speak of the Bhahasad-Sadhwa Juan Lin, a person who has a great capacity to listen with compassion and true present. Quan Yin means the one who can listen and understand the sound of the world and the cries of suffering. That may be one of the most beautiful sentences I have ever read. And I think of Jesus. Jesus was a great listener. A good pastor is a good listener. Let me repeat that. Quan Yin means the one who can listen and understand the sound of the world, the cries of suffering. Then he says psychotherapists try to practice the same, they sit quietly, quietly with compassion and listen to you. Listing like that is not to judge, criticize, condemn, or evaluate. But to listen with the single purpose of helping the person suffer less. If you were able to listen like that for one hour, you will feel much better. With psychotherapists have to practice, they can always maintain compassion, concentration, and deep listening. Otherwise they have quality of listening that will be very poor and you will not feel better after one hour of listening. So this is just a sample of this and then he encourages you to do some breath work before you engage in a listening session. Or if the person needs to talk to you and you don't have the time, take suggest that you very kindly say like, "Hey, I would love to talk to you. Is there another moment when you and I can talk so that I can listen to you?" Because if you're too distracted or if you're not present or if you're not to stay silent, you cannot be an effective listener. At the beginning, I promised that I would give you a takeaway, and my takeaway on this is be like one, yeah, sometime during this week, whether it's with a colleague, loved one, family member, anyone else, practice the art of deep listening to the matters of the world, number one, number two, see if you can go out into the world and listen, do some deep listening to the world, to the birds, the breath, the trees, the sound. And most importantly, listen, listen to the sound of God after you pray. You know, when I was growing up, we learned so much about prayer. There's so much that we learned about prayer, but at least I don't remember almost anything where we talked about, well, how do we listen to the Creator when he's actually speaking to us? Sometimes he speaks to us to a friend or loved one through a pastor. You know, I think of my own church. We've had so much conflict recently in our church, and I really just diagnosis, diagnosed this as no one really wants to listen. And so many things could be avoided if we would just listen, and listening is free. Listing will always make you feel better. Listing is a skill that you need to develop just like anything else, but I think anyone has the capacity to shut their mouth and just listen. And listening gives you the ability to truly understand where that person is coming from. So if you do decide to give that person some feedback, to point them in the right direction, you can point them in the right direction. And that is what the power of listening is. But most importantly, you're not going to be stoking the fire. You're not going to be interrupting, you're not going to be introducing your own toxicity into the situation. So I hope that you get the opportunity to read the work of Tic Nhat Hanh, his book The Heart of Buddhist Teaching, and I hope you get the opportunity and the ability to engage in deep listening, because like a lot of things in life, it is a completely free gift which can unlock so many things if you practice it. And if you don't do it, it could be the source of misery as well. And take it from me. I have really struggled with listening throughout my whole life. But it's never too late to develop these skills. And I have gratitude to you that you have listened to me this far. I will listen to you too. So this is important for purposes of this podcast is that you need to listen to other people in your life. So that's it for this episode of The Wrecking Cast. I found this chapter on deep listening incredibly awesome. I hope you do too, but most importantly, I hope you read the work of Tic Nhat Hanh, because he gives you essentially a manual full living that's going to totally unlock so many awesome things within you. So that's it for this episode of The Wrecking Cast. Until the next time, you and I see each other on The Wrecking Cast.

Deep Listening is one of the greatest gifts that you can give or receive. This episode is about the art of Deep Listening.

We can't always control whether others will listen to us, but we can control whether we can listen. Listening is the first step to Deep Understanding, healing, and transformation.

This was probably one of my favorite episodes so far!

Deep gratitude to all of you for listening in.