On this week's "The Conservative Corner", we discuss the direction of Christianity in America and the direction its heading.
The Patriots Prayer
The Conservative Corner with Special guest Apostolic Pentecostal , Ray St.Clair
[MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] Good afternoon, everybody. This is Seth Eisenberg with a conservative corner. Thanks for joining me. I had some things planned for today, but I lucked out and got to get somebody on here. And we're going to discuss Christianity in the United States and where it's heading and where it's been. So without any further ado, let me get on race and clear. He's been in the ministry for 20 years. So let me introduce himself rather than me do it, because I'll mess it up. Hey, Ray, how are you? Great, how about yourself? I'm well, thank you. Now, before we go on, how should I address you? Ray, or do you-- is there a title I should address you by? Yes, by Ray. OK. So Ray is fantastic. Ray's a good name. It's easy to remember. So go ahead. I put up a bio earlier, but just in case some people didn't read it, go ahead and introduce yourself and just tell everybody a little bit about who you are, what you do. My name's Ray St. Clair. I was born and reared in the Midwest in a pastor's home. At the age of about 20 years old, I became a youth pastor. Was a youth pastor all the way up until the age of 28. At 28 years old, I took my first church as a pastor. I pastor there for, want to say, about five years and then went to Florida. There in Florida, I was on the ministry team of a big church in Cooper City under Pastor Mark Hatterball. And I taught in Bible school there. And from there, we went back or came back to Albuquerque and assisted my dad for a long time until eventually I took over his church. And then we went from there to Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, to help others build their small churches into a larger church. And then we came back to Albuquerque. And hopefully, we are settled in the Albuquerque. Well, that's-- and so I guess it's safe to say, and I'm not trying to embarrass you. But it's safe to say, you're an expert-- well, maybe you're an expert when it comes to the Bible. You know more about it than I do to very least. And you know more about religion and things like that. Well, I do have a master's degree, but being an expert on the Bible. The Bible says to study, to show yourself a proof of God, a workman that needed not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. So we are constantly studying and learning as much as we can about the Bible. But to be an expert, I think that there are one that is an expert and that is Jesus. OK, I stand corrected. So I'll put it this way. You're learned compared to the layman. You have more insight than most normal people would. Yes, sir. And most of that education came from the school of hard knocks. I've been there a few times. Yes, sir. When you get into a situation and you don't know how to get out, we turn to the Word of God and we find out what Paul told us or what Moses told us or what Peter told us or what one of the disciples or apostles told us. And we learn that way. And yeah, unfortunately, it comes with some scars and bruises and contusions and things like that. Yeah, no life is easy. So what I brought you on for me is because as I watch stuff on social media that I don't like and people just aggravate me or I hear people talk. I hear a lot of people quote the Bible or say, hey, this is what God meant when he said this or this church says, you know, the Bible is getting old. We need to update it. We need to refresh it and get it more in mainstream with what's going on. So I wanted to talk to you about it because, again, you know more about this than I do. And I think it was a few years ago when I ran for office, I talked to you and asked you a question about something somebody had mentioned and you helped me and you were very gracious. You were very approachable and I remembered that and I appreciated it. And you're married to Jackie, who I've known for years and just adore her. She's a great woman. There's always been just as approachable as you have. So that's why I came to you. Just want to have a conversation. I have questions and I know you're the best person to ask them. So first, let me ask you this question. What do you think overall, in general, nothing specific overall in this country, the direction churches and Christianity are headed? What is your opinion of that right now? Where we are headed in the future now, how far into the future? - Let's say in the next 10 years. What do you think, what do you see happening? - In the next 10 years, I think we are looking at having small groups in homes, like in the early New Testament days, they went from house to house. They still had the sanctuary. They still had the temple, the tabernacle, whatever you want to call it. They still met there at certain times, but daily, they would go house to house and fellowship one another. And I think that we are headed in that direction where a lot of people are getting church heard for getting hurt by clicks, hurt by supposedly Christians and they no longer want to go to a big church. So they're looking for home groups that they can become a part of. And I see ourselves going in that direction. And it really depends on the economy also because these mega churches take a lot of money a month to operate with their utilities and mortgages and insurances and all of that. I think that the larger churches are going to be split up and go into daughter works. And once again, back to the house, the house. - Okay. How do you think the core teachers of Christianity have changed over the past decade, decades in the U.S.? - In the past decade, we see, if you begin to look at the end times in the Bible and tribulations and things like that, the people know what's going to happen before Jesus returns to pick his church up out of this world. And we are seeing where churches are becoming more like the world than the world like the church. The Bible says for us to come out from among them and be he separate. And a matter of a fact, I was at a funeral a few weeks ago and the lay ministry, I'm not even gonna say what denomination they were. - Fair enough. - Told everybody to go get a hamburger and some spirits. - So, whether you believe in that or not 30 years ago, you would have never heard of that. But nowadays, we are trying to get as close to the world as we can. And if we're not careful, the world's gonna swallow up the church. - Okay. Yeah, I was gonna say, I haven't been to a church in a while, unfortunately, but I watched some on the like, YouTube's and churches are local. And I notice a lot of, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, I notice a lot of churches are kind of, I don't know how to say, they are kind of downplaying sin, like it's not that bad now. - Yes, sir. - You're not married and you're living with the woman, it's not that bad. As long as you two are together, you're not cheating, it's okay. Or, and I'm not trying to judge anyone. If you're gay, it's not that bad. As long as you're faithful, it's okay. If you're wrong in the church, do you see a lot of that since you're in that, I guess that circle with other churches, do you notice that happening more or? - Yes, sir. Yes, sir. All of the above and then some. It seems like a lot of pastors, as long as you're paying your tithes and offering, they don't care what you do, as long as you pay your tithes and offerings. - And again, if I ever say something's wrong, just tell me, hey, that's not right. - Okay. - I remember something, I read the Bible a long time ago, and I probably misquoted it, but I remember saying, hate the sin, not the sinner. - Yes. - So I can understand to a point where, like a preacher or a reverend might go, hey, if you're gay, that's not that bad, but it should be followed with, you need to know that's not acceptable. I'm not judging you as a person, I'm judging your actions. And it seems to me that churches are afraid to walk that line anymore. Like we don't want to push away people, we want everybody welcome, everybody's welcome. And in my opinion, I don't think everybody is welcome if you're sitting, knowing it, and just saying, you know what, who cares? I'm coming to church, they're going to make me feel good about what I'm doing. How would you respond to me? Do you have to deal with that in your church, or is that not an issue, or how do you approach that? - As apostolic Pentecostal, we do approach it. - But some in our organization are no longer approaching it, trying to get numbers, and more monetary support flowing through the church. The Bible says, we've all sinned, we've all sinned. None of us can judge one another. And I am so thankful that I don't have to take God's job and judge somebody. All I have to do is live the life before them. And try to introduce them to Jesus the best way that I can. But there are a lot of offended people that live in this world, that we have to be careful what we put out there, because if someone gets offended, they can literally sue someone over that. - Yeah, that's ridiculous. Have you had to deal with that in your church? Has anybody ever threatened to sue you or anything? - No, sir. - No, sir. That's why a lot of churches have quit broadcasting their services. - I guess that makes sense, yeah. - Yes, sir. - Do you broadcast your church? - We do. We are part of Grace Worship Center in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Pastor Jorge Salazar is the pastor there. And I'll tell you what, he loves people. And we love the center. We just don't like the sin. And we open the doors to anybody that wants to come in, no matter their situation, no matter the circumstances that they are dealing with, we want them to come in and meet Jesus. - That's how it should be. I mean, I agree with that completely. I guess my view on God and again, if I'm wrong, correct me, he's our father. Everybody knows your father. And when I think of a father, I think of someone who loves you, but if you step out of line, he loves you enough to discipline. Like, hey, we're not doing this. This is not acceptable. And I think a lot, and again, I'm speaking from what I know, which is very limited. I think a lot of people have taken on the perception that God loves you no matter what, which he does, but it doesn't discipline you. That's not what God does. God doesn't get angry. There's no more wrath of God. If it feels good, do it, because God gave you free will. So if you do what you want to do, he's happy with it. I don't believe that. I believe we all have to stand accountable at some time. And I'm sure you agree with that too. - Yes, sir. - I think, do you think the social and cultural shifts in America have affected churches? - Definitely. - Should it have or should it not have? - You know, we were working with a someone that didn't know if they wanted to be a boy or girl. - Okay. - And we were loving on this man that was identifying as a lady, just trying to get them to church. And whether they wanted to correct the situation, it was up to them. But they had to know that they had other options that you can't fight this thing on your own. You need the love of God and the wisdom of God to fight the spirits that are trying to inflict this last days that we are living in. We've worked with people. We have a street ministry in Albuquerque, down in an area called the Warzone that the police don't even wanna go in there after dark. And working with these people that are strung out and they sold their children to buy drugs and sold their children to bring money to buy drugs. And we've had demonic spirits speak out through people. I know who you are and things like that. But if we are too afraid to stand on the word of God, they're not gonna believe what we say. - Right. And that's what I wanted to ask you about. I'm glad you brought that up. Guys who think they're girls, girls who think they're boys, schools that condone that and work like, "Hey, let's get this done." Parents who think that a child at seven can make their own decisions when it comes to that. When I say, "What's the church stance?" I mean you, your church and your circle of people. What is your stance on that? My stance on that is your boy, your boy, your girl, your girl, just how it is. You may be a feminine male or you may be a masculine female, but that doesn't change who you are. That's just your personality. And as a conservative person, I don't think schools should be bringing that up. I don't think parents should be condoning and I don't mean parents should get crazy about it, but I think one of the last voices of reason we have is the church and like I'm saying, it's slowly slipping away. How do you, if someone came to you and said, "Look, my son thinks he's a girl." How has that dealt with? What would be the first thing you would do or recommend to that person? - Well, truthfully, it doesn't matter. My outlook on that situation. Let's take it to the Bible. - Okay. - The Bible says he created one man and one woman, Adam and Eve. So in the beginning, in Genesis the first chapter, starting with verse one, it says God created and then it goes down through everything he created in the first few verses. And then at the last thing that he created was he knelt down in the dust and formed man out of the dust of the earth. He breathed a breath of air into his nostrils and he became a living soul. God created that. Then he saw man was lonely. So he put Adam to sleep, removed a rib out of Adam and created Eve to be a helped mate to Adam. Nowhere in the Bible, do you find them creating furries, things that identify themselves as pronouns, nowhere in the Bible? Nowhere in the Bible will you find the men wanting to conduct themselves as women or the women conducting themselves as men. But nowadays, hell has rocked us through our youth and now we are living in a woke generation. We are living in a generation that is supposed to be woke but is blind to what's going on behind the scenes. We love you no matter what, we love you but there's some things that God will bring judgment against. There were a few times that Moses had to step in because God was mad and God said, I'm gonna destroy them everyone off of the face of the earth and Moses had to step in and say, look, let me work with these, these are people. So there is judgment in God but God gave us a free will at the beginning and the choices ours, whether we wanna live right or wrong. If we live right, then we have eternal life coming in New Jerusalem. If we live wrong, we have eternal life coming in the pits of hell. But the choices is ours. It's not like God is going to put people in hell. No, God gave you a choice. And God's choice is, He said, I've come to seek and to save them that were lost. That was His whole motive as coming as Jesus to save the lost. And He wanted us to have the option to live for Him, to live a overcoming life, a victorious life, a fun life. It's not all sticks and stones and rules and obligations in the Bible. There's a lot of fun things that happen when the church gets together. In our church, we love to praise and worship God. We love to sing, we play instruments, we run, we dance, we shout, we do all of this stuff. And it's very scriptural. Matter of fact, I preached a message a couple of Sundays ago that when David was bringing the Ark of the Covenant back to Jerusalem, every six steps that he took, the Bible said he danced with all of his might and sacrificed a calf right there. We'll dance for other things, but we won't dance the proper way unto the Lord. And this is where the judgment comes into the world. We'll give up everything we can to please the flesh, but we won't please the Creator. We have made it so easy to live for God, like you were saying before, that all you have to do is repent or go through the motions or whatever. The Bible says true repentance is you stop what you have asked God to forgive you for. - I agree. We need to take a quick commercial break here. We'll be right back with Ray Sinclair. And we'll keep the discussion going because I'm enjoying it and I'm learning a lot. So we'll be right back. - No, I can't do it. It's melting. - Let me find it. Born in the coastal plains of South Texas, smoking gun coffee is founded by combat veterans that know exactly what a cup of coffee needs to taste like. Run by father and son, each coffee bean is perfected, roasted at 500 degrees and cooled with a gulf coast breeze. Smoking gun coffee hand makes and bags each ounce of coffee for maximum customer satisfaction. With every purchase, 10% goes back to organizations that help veterans and local communities. That's Texas Made, one bag at a time. To find out more, go to www.smokingguncoffee.com. Since the beginning of time, all living creatures rely on the sun source of natural light to grow and to help promote overall wellness. We are all light beings. The patches are all natural and drug free that uses the body's own natural light to help promote general health and wellness, how it works. Simply place the patch on specific points on your body and where the patch is placed on your skin. It reflects back into the body when it's tapped into its own flow of natural energy, which in turn creates the GHK CU copper peptide, which rejuvenates your cells and gives you a more younger, healthier you. (gentle music) - I said I was a bird, we're back with racing player, having a very good conversation. I'm learning a lot and I hope you are too. So let me ask you another question. Are there any specific about biblical interpretations or doctrines that you see become more or less emphasized in recent years? - Explain that a little differently. - Okay, like we just talked about homosexuals, most churches really don't look at it in any other way than hey, it's fine, just as long as you're not, you know, as long as you're with one person, it's okay. Are there any rules that are in the Bible that were emphasized before and followed because they made sense that are less and less emphasized now? - Yes, sir, the Ten Commandments. Found in Exodus, we have left them. We've taken them out of courthouses, we've taken them out of schools, we have flat removed God out of our judicial system and out of our education system and we've replaced God with pronouns and people that identify as cats and bears and snakes and whatever else they wanna identify as. Yeah, we've seen a lot of slippery slopes that have led the world to what is now a crazy nation. - I agree with the school thing. I mean, when I talk to atheists and they say, "Hey, I don't want the Bible taught in schools religious." I always go, "Well, let's take religion out of it." I say, "That's the oldest history book in the world." That has stuff in there that's not anywhere else so it just teaches history, if nothing else. I don't, and I've also, and again, correct me if I'm wrong, I've told atheists, "Hey, look, even if you don't believe in God "and you think the Bible's a joke, "if you live your life according to the Bible, "what is so wrong with that?" There's nothing wrong with living that. Falling the Ten Commandments, doing what's in the Bible, how would your life be worse if you followed it as opposed to not following? And they never can answer that. - Well, I don't believe in any of that. Then just follow the rules. The rules in this book make life much easier. How do you reach out to new people, like kids, younger people with that kind of message? How do you get to them? What's the difficulty with that? - You know, it takes a special youth leader to get there. I don't have that calling anymore. I don't know their language. I don't know their terminologies anymore. - I don't either. And my grandson can talk to me, and I'm like, what in the world did you just say? So it takes a special youth person that is a little older than they are. Maybe they've been to Bible school or seminary or something that can talk their language explain to them that living for God is still the best way to live. Even if you don't believe all the Bible or there is a God or whatever, if you live by his commandments, the Bible says he'll bless you. - That makes sense. Has church attendance grown or shrunken the last say four years? In Europe, what have you seen? - It has changed. The culture of the church has changed. There are some huge churches out there, but there are more smaller churches than there are mega churches. - Okay. - And what I've noticed more than anything is that people are coming to church to be entertained by the lowering of the lights, the smoke machines, the hired musicians, the singing the choir. They have made it very, very casual. At one time, we used to dress up to go to church. We still do, but the culture of the church anymore is just come as you are. And we have taken the reverence to the house of God away. There are men that don't even know that you don't wear a hat in church. - I know. - And it's ultimately due to the parents and the government taking all of these God back out of the school system, the Ten Commandments out, what about prayer? We used to pray in elementary school before we started. It didn't matter what religion you belong to, whatever the teacher prayed, you prayed with her. You just bowed your head and let her pray. What happened to the, saying the Pledge of Allegiance? All of that is gone and we are now worse for wear. Same thing with the church. We have taken out the harshness of sin. We've tried to smooth it all over and now the church is in worse shape than it's ever been. - Do you think the churches can be saved or do you think it's gonna do what you said? Become smaller in-home things and churches are gonna become less and less important. - The Bible says that in the last days he's going to raise a church out of the remnants and that's going to be the in-time church. So the church is God's people. They can definitely be saved, but we're gonna have to do it God's way, not our way. - Right. When I first met you and talked to you in the phones a few years ago and said when I was running for office and I had a question for you and I want to know what your opinion is on politics and religion mixing. Do you think there's a place for that or do you think it should remain separate or do you think that there's a place for maybe some co-mingling? - Well, the church and state has always been separate and the church hasn't really until recently has never really preached politics. - Right. - We've preached the oracles of God. But now we are preaching politics and politics never saved anyone. - True. - Politics won't take you closer to Jesus. Politics won't make you love your enemy. It'll make you hate them. - That's true. - That's true. - The Democrats can't even get along with themselves. Are they gonna get along with the Republicans or vice versa? - True, that's true. And I'm sure you're aware of what's going on and you've probably been watching the things in Israel being attacked by Hamas and Hezbollah. Anti-Semitism is on the rise. People, it's Israel's fault. I was in the military and I was in a combat zone. So I don't like combat. There's no, I see no need for it. But I also on the other hand, believe that everybody has a right to defend themselves. Especially if you're attacked, just attack for no reason. There have been some churches in my area that have flown Palestinian flags and sent from the river to the sea, things like that. And I'm not asking your opinion on that. I'm just asking, did you think the church should be weighing in on that? Or should they be removed from that and say, hey, we're concerned about the loss of life. That's our main concern. - Once again, Christian, the term Christian means Christ like. And if we are truly a Christian, we are supposed to think and act like Christ. He said, I come to seek and to save them that are lost. War destroys. And sometimes war is very necessary. Even in the biblical days, there were wars. There were times they took their farm implements and beat them into swords and spears. Because it was war time. God gave us the right to defend ourselves. But still as a church, we run a lot of security in churches. - Yes. - Because we have people that are demonic possessed that come into churches and they empty their ARs in large congregations and start mowing them down. If this happened in one of my churches, I have the right to bear arms. Now, I'm going to try to eliminate the best way that I can that intruder, but ultimately sometimes they've just got to be taken out. So that lives can be saved. So you're asking a question that, man, we could talk about for hours. - Well, true. - Try and get to the depths of this thing. - Yeah. - So when the government stepped in and they took the right to discipline our children, that was the start of the downfall of humanity. - I agree. I completely agree with that. If you don't mind Ray, my producer has been wanting to get in with this. He's loving the conversation. I think you asked some questions for you too. If it's okay with you, I'll bring him on. - Certainly. - Eddie, this is Eddie, he's the producer. And he runs the network. - Hello, Eddie. - And he said he wants you. He's got some questions and loves a conversation. So you brought him on. - I did get it. This is right up my alley. This is right up my alley. You were talking earlier about how we approach the LGBTQ community and the church. I'm one who believes that we have to stand in the gap. We're obligated to. We're slaves, all called us. We don't belong to ourselves. - Right. - And so in today's church, I see a lot of people, they don't want to say the name of the church that may be misleading people. I've even gotten into debates with this with other pastors where they think you're dividing the body of Christ. And I'm being specific just like Paul was being specific when he went back to Corinth. And he's, we have to speak out. I went to the UMC. I went in and I took my Bible with me. I got, it's actually on an earlier podcast, guys. If you go back and look, pages for an earlier podcast, I went into the United Methodist church and I challenged them when they're theology. They're allowing lesbians to teach Sunday school and all these things. And they're putting it out there. And they have this thing they do that's called the Sparkle Creed where they say Jesus wore a fabulous tunic and had two dads and they're really teaching this in church. I can actually show you the clip. I have it. But the thing is is when I go to my circle of Christian friends or Bible believing friends and I say, let's go over to that church on Sunday, all of us as a group, sit in those pews and when they say this, stand up and challenge them on the spot. That's God'sance and doesn't belong to them. Nobody wanted to do it. I went, I went and then I went to the Lutheran church and I challenged them the same way. The point is, is what I'm saying is we, I think we get so caught up in using our beliefs to bring our own peace and we don't do anything with it. It's like the parable of the free talents. And a lot of Christians are just powerless. They remain, they sit in the corner quiet and they just, I'm not getting involved. I'm not getting involved. I'm not getting involved. Meanwhile, the world is falling apart. So how do we approach these situations as Christians? What should we actually be doing when kids are being kidnapped by law, like AB 665 in California? They have another like it up in Washington where these kids can identify to their school counselors as transgenderists and my parents disagree with this and they'll take the kid from the parents and literally put the kid into a host home and confirm this kid's gender all the way up into surgery and the parents have no rights. What are we supposed to do as Christians in a world like that? I mean, how should we be approaching this? - Can you repeat that? We just came around the mountain and I lost you for a second. - So what I'm basically getting at is now, the world is creating the laws and the norms, the like AB 665, which is a law in California, that allows, if you live in Texas and you have a son or daughter who's transgender, I can take them from you in Texas, take them to California and get their genders affirmed in California, put them in a host home and everything in California will protect me, the kidnapper. They'll protect me. They will make sure you can't arrest me and affirm this kid's gender. As Christians, my ask is, where is the line today for Christians? Where enough is enough and we stop sitting quietly in the corner and just praying about it. When do we actually stand up? - Gotcha. Here's the whole thing. It's not that we hate sinners. We don't hate sinners. And it's not our word against theirs. It's the Bible, that's God's word. God spoke it and ordained it to apostles to write what he commanded them to write, that's the Bible. And God never made a man, and a woman or a woman, a man, or a child, a furry, whatever that is, he made a man, a man. And he made a woman, a woman. And it's time for Christians to stand up. My best friend is gay. He came out of the closet after being married 28 years to a woman. And he told me, God made me this way. No, God did not make you this way. God made man, a man, and a woman, a woman, period. - Right, no, I agree. I agree, we actually interviewed Pastor probably five, six months ago, whose church primarily deals with people formally from the LGBTQ community. So, but one of the things that he tells them, and he was quite clear with us, and I agreed with him, repentance is necessary. Today in church, we're preaching to make people feel good, but we're never telling them they have to repent. You literally have to stop doing that. - Come on now. - They're not preaching anymore. (laughs) - Come on now, preach. - They're really not saying that anymore. You look at the bigger creatures, and I'll say their names so you don't have to. Joel Osteen, right? Joel Osteen, T.D. Jakes. Joel Osteen picks up his Bible for the first five seconds of his sermon. Says a little thing, a kind of a motto or whatever, a creed or whatever, and then he puts it down and he doesn't pick it up for the remainder of his sermon, and he doesn't preach about help. T.D. Jakes was asked just the other day. He said, "How do you feel about homosexuality "of your opinions evolved?" He said, "They're evolved and evolving." Because these mega churches, they're leading people down a primrose path because they're not teaching them the Bible. They're turning their son into self-help sessions like you're going to see Tony Robbins. - Yes, yes, yes. - I have a question, Ray. - I'm gonna tell you how to get blessed. They're freezing up on me. - No, go ahead. Do I hear you? - I'll tell you how to get blessed. Go to work. I don't need to go to church for them to tell me how to get blessed. Go to work. - Yeah, I'll get you to work. - Work like the rest of us and you'll be able to get a check on Friday. That's your blessing. But the Bible is to help get us into heaven. It's not a feel good book. Matter of fact, the Bible says it's a two-edged sword. It cuts off some stuff. And there's a lot of sins and to the Navy man, barnacles on our ship that we need to sever. - Yep. - Waits and sins and ties and chains and bondage and things like that. That the church needs to stand up like it did once before and said, hey, you know, we love you guys and you guys can keep coming to church here, but I got to preach what the Bible tells me to preach. Don't hate me. This is God's word. If you're gonna hate somebody, hate God. I'm just gonna run what he told me to do and preach in his work. - Yeah. I mean, I feel like they wouldn't. Corinthian 6'9 literally says, "Now liars, not fornicators, nor adulterers or homosexual perverts will enter into the kingdom of heaven." But yeah, if you see that, like I put that on Facebook a year and a half ago and I was kicked off of Facebook for 12 months. - Oh, I bet you were. I bet you were. It was, you know, they declared the verse hate speech, but people need to know this is not new. If you look at the goddess Ishtar, the one they based Easter on. - Yes. - And you really do your research. They, this has all happened before with the gender fluidity and the whole thing. This is demonic. The whole, see, this is my take on it. I think it's a religion because it has to be taken on faith. If I'm a boy and I have to believe I'm a girl, that's faith. If I'm a, all these things have to be taken on such a faith that you have to live it like a religion. And that's the way that that's why this is all spiritual. This battle is spiritual. And we need to, as I believe as Christians, to start speaking up and speaking out without giving ourselves a trap door. Like exactly what Seth said earlier, a lot of preachers don't get up to preach and then they'll say something like, now before I say what I say, I just want to say that I'm love and I've got plenty of gay friends and then the rest of their sermon is completely power. Right? 'Cause they just cut themselves off at the knees before they started. And now the person who you really need to convict thinks it's okay. 'Cause you got friends. They don't, it's not as serious. It's not as life and death as it should be. Right? When people encounter God, I've seen people, when I encounter God, it broke me down. I was no good for a while. I just did the things that I can deal with that he forced me to deal with. And I see people come to God now, like Hillsong with the music and all this, you know, it's a style, it's a fad, it's a trend. But they don't ever really encounter the God that I know. 'Cause you can tell. Amen. You can just tell when someone actually knows. Right. Let me ask you a question, Ray. Eddie just brought it up. When you got into this, was it something you chose to do or do you feel you were chosen to do it? I felt a call on my life as a young man. In elementary school, they would always ask you, what are you going to be when you grow up? Everybody around that time was either a fireman or a policeman. I would tell them I'm going to be a preacher. I felt a calling on my life at a young age. Now I've done stuff that according to man, which would take me out of that calling, but because of the mercy and the grace of God and because of repentance and forgiveness and the love of God, he allows me to be counted as worthy to fulfill that position. Yeah. You know, we've heard from people that's a calling. It's not something you choose to do. It's your call to do it. Well, I'll tell you a quick one. I came to God as a young man and I drifted away and I came back to him in prison. They're five years, right, or close to. And when I was in there for the biggest portion of the first part, when I was in there, I was in one of the most deadliest prison gangs in the whole country. Okay, facts. Absolutely. The kind you just don't walk away from. And the reason that I came to the conclusion I did is because when I was on the tear, I'd see this guy every day out there with his Bible. And I would go and leave it sit down and have a talk. And he was like, man, you really know the word. You really know it. And he says, are you going to continue to do that with those guys? Are you going to continue, that's that what you're going to be? Are you going to follow God? He was like, what are you going to do? And it messed me up because he was forcing me to choose. And he put him on opposite sides. You couldn't do B one and still do the other. He made it clear, like, which one are you going to do? Because you can't do both. And-- - Yes, sir. Yes, sir. - I went back and you just, like I said, you can't walk away from what I was involved in. You just can't just walk, hey guys, I'm not doing this today, right? But the next day I went up and I talked to a couple of folks in a maximum security facility. Um, killers, tattoos all on the face, you know, like it was that serious. And I sat down and I told him, I said, guys, I can't do this anymore. I didn't know if I was going to get out of that conversation hole or not. But all I knew was whatever it was they were going to do to me is nothing compared to eternity. And so I had to take everything that I love, put it over here and weigh it against God and what I was doing and weigh it against God. And I chose God every single time. And now these guys looked at me and they said, you know, I didn't know if I was going to walk away from this conversation, I didn't. And they said to me, well, you're not going anywhere. So what you're doing will bless you to do it, but you better be serious because if you're just saying this to get it, it's over for you. And then I tell you that I learned while I was in that situation, Christians in prison are among the most Christian people there are period because every eye on the entire prison is watching them. They're declaring that they're Christians and everyone in the entire prison is looking to call you a hypocrite. These guys walk a line that people in the free world typically don't and they're way more honest. Like they make no excuses for their life, no excuses for their sins, no excuses for their sins. They're, I'm just telling you there's a bond, there's a closeness, there's a reality there that you don't get in the real world out here. You just don't. Those guys in there are, I mean, they, I would get anyone that is not involved in the prison ministry. I want to tell you, anyone in a church that doesn't help out someone in there, there are so many people in prison doing life. They don't have family, they don't have whatever. And they are real God-believing people and they do a lot of good in that place. If you don't know one, you can find out one and take care of them. That's well worth it. I do it, I do it and I work with Hope for Prisoners to help people make sure that they don't re-offend and get them back into the working world. And I will always do it because that's, that's what happened with me. That's why the Patriots prayer exists. Donald Trump did a graduation for Hope for Prayers. Hope for Prisoners a few years back, four years, five years ago now. And he said the name of the company that I had been trying to get hired at for years. And I was writing all this in my Bible and I told the bicellia at the time, I said, when I get out, I'm going to this job, I'm doing this, this, this and this. And I wrote it all down. And exactly how I got off the bus, the unshackled me, took my cuffs off. I didn't know where to walk to, where to go first. I mean, my family and I were only out completely. I just lost a bunch of years of my life, I had nothing. In fact, I was in debt, I had worse than nothing, I owed. So I go to this program, I go to this program about a weekend, we're doing a job fair and it gave me the list of companies that I could possibly go to work for. And I said, I just want the one. And they said, well, they're only hiring for laborers or you're gonna try to be a labor. Said, absolutely not, that's not for me. But just get me the interview because I'll be able to do the rest, just get me in front of whoever. And they asked me what I did. And I explained it to them and they just got the confused look. I'm working project management for large construction projects, that sort of thing. And they asked me, they said, well, how much do you think that you'll make doing this? And I gave them the figure, just right around that low six figure. And they looked at me like, you just did five years. Like, you think you're gonna come out, go into a job interview with people you've never met once and go in and ask for a job that's six figures. And at an executive level and you're gonna get it. They laughed, they laughed. Ten minutes later, I was hired. Wow, wow. And every other portion of what happened from then until now, even with this network, you know, hanging out in places with Donald Trump and JD Vance and Marjorie Taylor Greene and actually having an impact on my community and the nation by doing what we're doing. And, you know, meeting guys like Seth and you. And everyone, it's been an amazing journey and it's just getting started. But, you know, this is just my testimony as to God, when you take a step toward Him, He takes a step toward you. - You know, that goes to prove that scripture when all of the ways of a man are pleasing unto the God, He'll make even your enemies be at peace with you. - You come out of that situation and ask for a six figure job. Won't He do it? - Sorry? - Won't God do it? - Yep, He did it. - He'll bless you, he did, and you're a living testimony. You know, we have one Bible, but there's over 2,700 different religions and organizations and denominations, but there's only one Bible. - Yeah. - Who do you think messed up? God or man? - Man, we kept, we kept basing, and you know, this is why Jesus said in Revelation, Paul said it in return to your first love. We based church upon man's version of the Bible. - Yes, sir. - Right? A lot of people don't even realize and I might be telling you something, I'm not sure. But you know, when the Bible was translated and King James Version came out and that sort of things, things were slightly modified for English, but the name James was never in the Bible, it was Jacob. So when you're like the book of James is not a real book in the Bible, it was Jacob. And King James wanted his name in the Bible so he had them change it to James. - Okay. And so there are things like that. And then obviously, the name of God has been removed tons of times. We, in English, we kind of dumb things down into single word, alliteration, instead of putting it as it was originally written, like She-Hole, Gehenna, - Right. - Hey, all these different words, we just put help. And so we lost the meaning of some of the context. - Yes. - Do we need to get back to the roots of who we originally were? And I would ask, do you think that we should also take some of the tenets of Judaism the way the early church did and bring them back into Christianity? Because it seems we lost a lot of the Judeo roots of what it is we actually believe. - We definitely have, definitely have. The Bible says don't, the Bible does not say read the Bible to show yourself a proof of God. It says study. - Yeah. - And to study, we got to dig it out. There's times we have to go to the Greek Hebrew translator and find out exactly what that word meant back in that day. Because it was different than what it means now. - Some of it's cultural too, yeah. - Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So if we are not students of the word, then how do we know what God's saying to us? God has three ways of speaking to us. Number one is the Bible, the word. John 1-1 in the beginning was the word, the word was with God, for the word was God, all right? Number two, through prayer, we pray. Number three is through another individual, preacher, a friend, a whatever. God will speak through us through those three avenues. But the greatest way that God will speak through us is through His word. In the last day, what is going to judge us? The thing that we carry to church every time we go to church, the Bible, it's going to judge us. And here, we have been carrying this map to everything we go through in our hands. And it is sat on our bedside table, unopened for years. And then we wonder why we are in the situations we are in because we never opened it and studied it. - Yeah, I got one more situation to bring that forth. We live in a daily age where they're doing all these things in the classroom. The teachers are using the classroom for their own version of activism. They're not just teaching the book smarts, the reading, writing, arithmetic, history, so forth. They are instilling values in your children from the secular world, from the LGBTQ community, from the BLM movements, whatever else it is that that teacher, professor, whatever, is a part of or trying to push. I would state, and I just want to know if you agree with me, I think that that turns the school into a church of Satan. - Yeah, yeah. - I think that it's time that Christians start pulling their kids out of school. - We did, we've been pulling our grandchildren out. We homeschool them. - Yeah, I didn't, but I didn't even need to know about that literal though. It has to be made that literal. I think we dumbed it down so much to try to get along with the world. And sometimes we start looking like the world. And I left the four square church, not long back because the guy who was the preacher there left and his daughter took over. And I'm like, this is not biblical. And they had their own take on it. But I'm not gonna say, she said, there's a book. I'll give you a book too. First Timothy, second Timothy, they say it's pretty clear. But these things now, oh, that's sexist. It's only sex is if you don't understand that God created women one way and men another. And together, pardon me. But if everybody's trying to occupy the same space at the same time, physics says that's not possible. We as a church, I still, even right now, I struggle today, what church is right? I find myself getting more fed in conversations like this around other people who I'm comfortable with, who I know on a friend level. But when I walk into a church, like an actual church building, I just see so many people bend in need through the secular world in order to get along with people that they just no longer looks like the church. - Right, right, right. - We, the church is majoring in minor things now. For example, what the color is got? Who cares? Who cares what color God is? The Bible tells us God is a spirit, so it doesn't matter what color he is, you're not gonna see him anyway, because he's like the wind. He's a spirit. But the church is majoring in minor things now, and we have lost our first love. - For sure. - All right, I want to, I've kept you long enough, Ray. I mean, I've enjoyed the conversation. I like talking to you. - You need more, a few more hours. - Yeah, yeah, you're a very smart man. And like I said in the beginning, you're very approachable. You're easy to talk with. When I talk with you, this is the first time you've faced a face. - Yeah. - I don't feel like you're talking down to me. And I don't feel like you're trying to, I don't feel like that at all, and I appreciate that. But before I let you go, everything's crazy in this country. Kids are shooting kids, drugs, everything. Wars are going on. What would your message mean to the world? If you could talk to everybody one time right now, what would you tell them right now to try to calm things or try to help them? What would you say to them? - As far as our children, you'll find it in Ephesians, the fifth chapter, pray the armor of God over them before they leave the house. And then thank God for bringing them back home every evening that they come home. We, life is a vapor, the Bible says. Here today gone tomorrow. We never know when our time is up. So with all of this craziness going on, pray over your spouse, pray over your children. Every time you get a chance, pray the mercy of God and that the angels, the Bible says we have angels that go with us, activate those angels. We don't know this stuff because we haven't studied. - That's right. - Oh, I need one more to get to the hospital, sorry. That is a deep, deep question you just asked. - I'd do that once in a while. - But for just the tip of the iceberg, just for the tip of the iceberg, pray over your family before they leave the house. Here in New Mexico, we're caught up with drunks. And it doesn't matter if it's new. There's a drunk that can cross the median and you get hit by oncoming traffic. So we just never know here. But if we send God with them, God said he would provide for us and we can get into the name Jehovah, Jaira, Jehovah-Rafa, Jehovah-Niseh. We can go into all of that stuff, but to be simple, pray for them. Thank God when they come home at night, give him the praise and God will protect us. - I agree, again, thank you very much, Ray. You can come back anytime you want to come back. You just let me know and I'll let you talk. As long as you want to talk. - Anytime, give me a call. - Tell Jackie, I said it was good seeing her again. I mean, I haven't talked during a while other than on Facebook, it was good seeing her. It was awesome, like I said, meeting you face-to-face as we can right now. - And everybody, I, you guys, we're diversifying not like the world is diversifying. We're on PPM, we're doing a sports network, VPN sports. We'll be a separate channel on our Rumble. We'll have a health and wellness one and we will also be doing one for Christianity. And I don't want to use the term spiritualism, nor religion or none of that. It's, you know, it's Christ-centered. So we will be doing, we will be doing that and it will be very soon. So, guys, thank you for allowing me to get up here. I'm going to jump out. Nice meeting you, sir. - Thank you. - You guys are great. - God bless you guys. Good talking to you. - Thank you, right. And like I said, whenever you want to come back on, you were Jackie just dropped me a line and I'll bring you back on as long as you want to talk. It was incredible. I learned a lot and it was great talking to you. - Just let me know whenever I'm ready. - Good deal. We'll go enjoy the rest of your day. I've taken much more time right now. - Thank you so much. God bless you. - God bless you too. Talk to you later. So if you're just joining in, that was Ray Sinclair. I got his name running across the bottom. He's out of Albuquerque, New Mexico. He has his own church. He's got a master's degree in theology. He's been in the church since he was 20 years old. And I brought him on because, you know what I'm saying? When you go on Facebook or anywhere, you've got people always saying, "Hey, this is what the Bible means. This is what God means." You know, it's okay to do this. It's okay to do that. And I wanted to go straight to the source. And I spoke him with Ray before and his wife, Jackie, and they've helped me with some situations in the past. And I figured, let's bring him on 'cause he knows what he's talking about and I trust him. Great guy, as you saw, very friendly, very approachable. He didn't talk to you like, you're stupid. Like, oh, I can't leave you ask that question. This is what it means. Very nice guy, and I hope you'll come back on sometime and we can talk about some other things. I mean, it's very interesting. I think he's got like a black belt in Kyle McGraw. He's like a weapon. So I would like to bring him back on and talk to him from some more. And I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you learned some things or kind of got you to think. And before I go, I just want to bring up the shooting in Georgia real quick. I put a post on my X-page. I don't know if y'all saw it. And I said, you know, I'm torn. It's a kid and what happened to him, you know, he was asked for mental health help. Numerous times, it was an abusive house. Nobody helped him. But he also did some heinous stuff. He murdered some people and he deserves to be punished for that. He needs to be held accountable. And I think the sign of intelligence is having two opposing thoughts in your mind and being able to deal with it. And I can feel sorry for the kid. He's a child. He's 14. I got shoes that are older than him. But I can also say he needs to be held accountable for what he did. He murdered people. To my, not so much surprise, but to my disgust. I have never seen so many racist jump out on that post and say, well, you know, you white people are always killing folks or, you know, the opposite. You know, it's usually black people doing this. Every time I see stuff like that, I lose faith in humanity. I really do because who cares the color of a criminal? I don't. Wrong is wrong, right is right. It doesn't matter if you got seven arms or six eyes. You do wrong, you're wrong. I don't care who you are. I care about your actions. Your actions define you as a person. That's it. Nothing else to find you as a person. Not to close you where, not to color of your skin. Your actions define you as a person. And that's how I will view you is based on your actions. So if you came on my textbook page this week and posted some racist bullshit against a 14 year old mentally ill child simply because he was white or he wasn't black, you were disgusting human being. And there's a special place in hell for people like you. What happened was horrible. All you managed to do, you racist people, was to stand on the body. There's four people that were killed. Pound your chest and say, look at me, I'm an idiot racist. Listen to what I have to say. You serve no purpose. You don't help mankind. What you did was disgusting. Now, after that situation was horrible enough, you just had to take a squat and make it worse. Seriously, you people are disgusting. People who posted that stuff on that post are disgusting. I'll say it here and I'll say it to your face. You're not conservative. You're not Republican. You're not even Democrat. You're not even, you're barely a human being. Some of the stuff I saw you people post. Some of that stuff was horrible. And I won't stand for it. You can feel sorry for the kid but also say he needs to be held accountable. I feel sorry for the victims. They're victims, they did nothing wrong. And I never once said that kid should not be held accountable. I never once, I never said that kid shouldn't face justice. He needs to face justice. He needs to be held accountable. But there's blame to go around in that situation. His parents, thank God they've charged his father. The kid was asking for help. His grandparents were trying to get him mental health. Nobody wanted to help him. This is what you get. It's got nothing to do with guns. They killed, how many people back in November 11th? 3,000 people with a box cutter. Evil will find a way. If you don't stop it, evil will find a way. And you don't stop it by being a racist piece of shit. That's simple. Sorry, I had to get that out. I had to vent. But yeah, that's what I wanted to say about the shooting. My heart goes out to those families that were killed. My heart goes out to the people who were injured. My heart goes out to the children that had to live through that. That's something you don't get over. You don't get over seeing people shot. You don't get over it. Ask any police officers and ask anybody in the military. Change is you as a person. Change is you. Fundamentally is a person and it's horrible that children have to go through that. So my heart goes out to them. I could go on for another hour about that. So I've been on long enough. I want to thank everybody for joining me now. I want to thank Eddie for getting on and asking his questions and talking with Ray. I want to thank Ray again. I appreciate his time. The man runs a church, street ministry, and does all those things with his wife Jackie. I'm sure they were busy. They took an hour out to talk with me and I'm humbled by it. Next Sunday, same time, same place. If you're watching on Rumble, hit that like button. The more times you hit the like, the bigger our voice gets. The bigger our voice gets, the more people we can affect and we can reach. That's what we have to do is reach as many people as we can. You've got the base mother. You've got Alexandria 360, two guys, one coup. I mean, the list goes on and people are on this network. We're trying to reach out and make positive change. Can't do it alone. We need your help. You got to hit the like button. You got to share all our videos. You got to talk about us with your friends. Help us 'cause we're trying to make a positive change. And it's hard to do. You just heard Ray talking about it. This world is more concerned about the world than anything else and I'm concerned about helping. It's about looking good and being like, we need to start getting people awake. Help them wake up, seeing how things they, as they are, not as how they wish they would be. So thanks for tuning in and share this video. I don't know if they call it sharing on XO. Retweet it or re-exit, whatever they call it now. Like it, share it with people. Share it with people you don't like. I mean, 'cause doing the right thing doesn't have a political party. It's the right thing to do and it shouldn't matter if it's coming from a Democrat or a Republican or a conservative. If it's the right thing to do, we should do it. Thanks for hanging out with me. As always, I am humbled that you spend time with me during it on Sundays when you could be doing other things. I appreciate it. It does not go unnoticed. And you can follow me on XO at the co-serve corner. You go to the Patriots Prayer Network on X. You can go to the Patriots Prayer on Facebook. I'm on Facebook, the conservative corner. We're all on Facebook, trying to get off of Facebook. I don't like it, so I'm slowly backing out of that. But yeah, follow me on X, follow us on Rumble, hit that like button, hit that retweet button, share everybody's videos with everybody. Let's get our word out. And remember, as long as you are voting based on principle, you'll never cast a bad vote in your life. You all have a good evening. (somber music) (somber music) (somber music) (somber music)