Fresh salmon – is it safe, what about raw in sushi? What to look for when buying, using and enjoying salmon. Answers from Kevin McCay and expert in food technology from Safe Catch. Sommelier, Jacqueline Coleman, on what wine to go with salmon.
Food, News & Views with Linda Gassenheimer
Food, News & Views, Ep 239: All About Salmon! Kevin McCay, Safe Catch, Wine Pairings, Jacqueline Coleman
I am Linda Gassenheimer and welcome to Food News and Views. Glad to have you joining us. Well, do you buy fresh salmon? Or maybe you buy it when it's frozen? How is it raised? How is it caught? There are so many questions and our guest today has answers for us. He's Kevin McKay. He's an expert in food technology. So welcome, Kevin McKay. Thank you. Well, thank you for joining us. Well, first before we begin, can you briefly explain your food technology background? Yeah, I've been working on technology that detects mercury and other heavy metals in seafood for the last 15 years. My experience and we've literally tested over 7 million samples of mercury in seafood in those last 15 years. And so I would say we have more expertise, more knowledge on heavy metal contamination in seafood than any other entity on the planet. Well, should I say, freaking us out a little bit because we don't think in terms of having metal and those kinds of problems in this food we buy. And I know it's become an issue at the moment. I do know that you're working with a company called SafeCatch, is that it? Yes, we're working to solve some of these problems. So let's start with the salmon right now. So how is salmon mostly fished? The salmon we buy in the markets? I mean, you're getting a lot of your fish. I mean, mostly the fish is formed. Most salmon is farmed salmon. Most of it's coming from Chilean seafood farms. And most of that is your, if you see an Atlantic salmon that's technically farmed salmon. You're also getting a lot of salmon out of, obviously, the Northern Pacific Ocean, that being in Alaska. And then also Russia, not now anymore, obviously, because of the embargoes. But in most of that-- Well, the ones that you're talking about out of it, of those areas, are those wild caught? Are those still farmed that you're talking about? Most of those are wild caught. There are a lot of farms, aquaculture farms that are wild nets, where they're keeping the salmon contained within the aquaculture farms. And there are some of those up and down in the Northern Pacific. But I would say most of your salmon is probably farm raised in Chile. Or, well, really, that's where most of the salmon is going from, to be honest. Okay. So in that case, if most of it's farmed-- I've been to some of the farms. I mean, some of them, the fish is out in-- it's actually in ocean or in open water, but it's fenced in and taken care of. But in some cases, it's a pool that was built for them, and they flush in the types of water that they want. But my question to you is that is that a problem that we're eating? What is the problem with this kind of farm salmon? It's a problem and a solution. I think, ultimately, I look at salmon being harvested wild as the ultimate best way to harvest it. But there are limitations in wild harvested salmon to breeding patterns. That's very interesting, the fact that salmon have breeding patterns that every other year they breed. So you're going to have-- if you're going to be purchasing wild salmon, it's going to come in a pretty good, established, sustainable harvested situation one year, and then that next year they don't repopulate. So that you have to kind of-- and it actually, interestingly enough, goes over to the western coast of the Northern Pacific Ocean in their breeding patterns. So you have those restrictions on the wild side, and then that is why I think a lot of people have tried to move towards a open water aquaculture setting, and then which would be your next best, I think, mode of harvesting next best set of-- if you're looking at it from a health standpoint, I think that would be the next best, and then you get into actual true aquaculture, where they're building the tanks as you mentioned. Okay. Well, as you're mentioning, what would be our best bet of all that? Before I ask you what we should look for when we're buying it, first, I want you to talk a little bit about the fact that you mentioned earlier Mercury, and there was a light threat in salmon. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, now that is something that has come about recently with the open water aquaculture farms, where from what I have heard, and I'm not an expert in the life aspect, I'm more of a heavy metal expert, but mostly Mercury. Mostly Mercury, yeah, that is the main issue. There is issues with some other heavy metals, but yeah, Mercury is the main one in seafood, specifically in salmon. Yeah, from what I've heard, the open water aquaculture, apparently the fish just don't have the opportunity to swim these lice off of their bodies, and so they're swimming around in these clothes, clothes contained areas, and they don't have the opportunity to like they would in a natural environment to really shake these lice off. So are you saying then you're getting worried now about this answer? Are you saying then we're eating salmon that has lice on? I think that there is potentially a problem, and I think I don't think we're necessarily eating the lice. So the lice, they attack the mucus, they attack the exterior membranes of the salmon, and so it's more of an issue of they're affecting the harvestability of some of the salmon, but I don't think they're... So we could get in other words, but if we're cooking the salmon, then there's no problem. Correct, correct. Yeah, so yeah, like most parasites, there are parasites in seafood. That's just the nature of the beast, but I think for the most part, hey, if you freeze it, it's going to kill a lot of parasites. If you want to consume it as shishimi or sushi, and especially if you cook it, cooking is going to cure all else in that card. Well, one of my friends was telling me about a problem she had with the tapeworm. She ate some salmon in New York City. She became home because I was very ill, found out it was a tapeworm, and then she was told that the salmon had been frozen. It would have been all right, and I guess what you're saying is that if you're eating sashimi or any raw fish that should be frozen first? Certainly, yes, yes. I have actually had some friends that ran and ran some sushi restaurants, and yeah, that's essential. If you're going to eat raw salmon, it should be certainly frozen, and that will kill most parasites. So we really can't go into a restaurant and say, "Did you freeze my fish first?" I guess. If it's a sushi restaurant, you should be able to do that. But ultimately, yeah, I mean, cooking is the cure all for that. If you cook salmon enough, you should kill all parasites. Okay, so when we go into the market, what should we then look for if we're buying salmon? What are some tips? Some tips? I mean, obviously you want to ask for freshness. It shouldn't have an odor. If it has a seafood odor, then it's probably been there too long. Well, here's another problem. If you say to a fishmonger, the man behind the counter, the woman behind the counter, is this fresh? And they'll say, "Yeah, it's fresh because it's not frozen." It doesn't mean it hasn't been sitting there for two or three days. Yeah, yeah. And ultimately, it's probably better if it was frozen and then refreshed. But I agree. Again, you want to ensure if it has a fishy smell, it's probably been there too long. The seafood shouldn't have a fishy smell, which is kind of counterintuitive. That would be your first indicator. Obviously, if you see a film or something like that, that's another indicator. And then, honestly, you can see there is salmon. There are parasites that live on salmon that you can see the parasites. And it's very open. You're talking about if I buy it, I can see a parasite on it. Technically, yes. If you bought something that had parasitical like worms or something like that, you could see it. So it's just being vigilant in looking, smelling, asking, I think is really the ultimate way to ensure that you're buying, you know, like, I would say 90% of salmon you're getting is going to be. The other thing I think is a good idea is if you always buy from the same place, get the person selling it to you, gets to know you, and we'll say to you, this is a good one. This is not good today. I mean, you know, they wanted to serve you. So get friendly, get friendly with the person who's selling it. I 100% agree with you on that one. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Thankfully, I've been able to establish some pretty good relationships in my career. And I honestly never thought I would know as much about seafood as I do now, but I've been in it for 15 years now. So right. So you really know, well, just before we leave, do you have any tips about cooking? Cooking salmon? Or should I ask you, cook your salmon? I do, I do. And I would say, you know what, obviously, you don't want to overcook your salmon. Cook it enough to where you feel comfortable fitting to your family. I've got two small children. So I tend to go a little bit over just because I'm paranoid, I guess. But for the most part of its wild caught, you're probably fine. All right. If it's wild caught, cook it a little bit more. If it's farmed, you're actually probably fine with the parasites. There's probably most of the parasites are external. And again, I'm not a doctor. So I don't take me for that. But from my experience, I would say if it's farm salmon, you could probably take a chance of leaving a little bit more raw if you prefer it that way. If it's wild, cook it a few extra, an extra minute just to ensure that you're killing all potential parasites. But that's all very good. And also, I think we should say that salmon's very forgiving if you overcook a little bit because it's a fatty fish. Exactly. Like other types of fillets, they'll be dried out and not taste good. But salmon will hold for you. I agree. 100%. Let it rest, too. You know, cook it, let it rest. Let those, you know, let those oils kind of re-absorb a little bit. Let it breathe and persec, let it rest. And I think even if you did overcook it, I think if you let those oils re-absorb, I think you're going to be just fine. Wonderful. Well, Kevin McKay, thank you so much for joining us with this. This is very important information and glad to have it from you. Where can we find out more about your work and what you've been doing? Yeah, I mean, yeah, safecatch.com is the best way. You'll find out about, you know, where we test every single fish. We've tested over 7 million fish today much more than any other government, really, agency in the world. And we also have a lot of really great programs going to. We're doing, you know, we're plastic neutral, which is super important to us and we're sustainably caught. So go to safecatch.com. You can find more about us and how we test and harvest our salmon that we can. And find some really amazing recipes as well. Okay, on this recipe's there as well. Well, safecatch.com. Kevin McKay, this is really, really wonderful information. Thank you. Now joining us now is Somalia Jacqueline Coleman. And she's going to have some tips on what we can drink with salmon. I'm Linda Gassenheimer and this is Food News and Views. Well, hello Jacqueline. Hi, Linda. Great to be back. Great to be talking with you. And nice to have you back from all your travels. Thank you. We've just been talking all about salmon, how to handle it, what it's all about. So what should we drink with it? Yeah, well, you know, there's a lot of different directions you can go with this. And there is kind of a general rule. But then, of course, rules are meant to be broken, right? Of course. Always do that. So go ahead. And then there's, and then there's all the other seasonings and sauces. So, of course, a general rule with wine pairings is to make sure that the weight of the wine and the weight of the food are about the same. You don't want either to overpower the other because then you have a little bit of an imbalance. Like if you have a heavy food with a light wine or a light wine with a heavy food, it doesn't really go together. Okay, so we're not weighing the wine, right? We're not, we're not weighing. Okay, I just want to talk about this. And do not weigh yourself after you drink the wine. Okay. But in terms of, of pairing wine with salmon, same as a little different than other white fish that we might be used to eating, like, you know, here in South Florida, we have grouper, snapper, and, and all the yellowtail delicious fish around here. Salmon's a little bit oilier and a little bit heavier. So that can lend itself to more pairing options. But the general rule with salmon is to go with kind of a heavier white wine. So a lot of people will choose a chardonnay, maybe from Burgundy or California, if that's what you're into, maybe a Vignet, which is from the Northern Roan, but you can find it all over there. They make Vignet and Australia and California and, and Virginia and all sorts of places. But Vignet is typically kind of a floral medium to heavier bodied wine. And it does kind of sometimes have like a little bit of an oily texture. So that can be good with salmon. Other wines, maybe like a white rioha, which is primarily the Vira grape. So that can be. What was that grape I haven't heard that one. Vira. Yes, V-I-U-R-A. This is a rioha white grape. Okay. Simeon is another great wine to enjoy with salmon. So maybe even a white Bordeaux that has Simeon Blanc and Simeon, you know, that would be an option for pairing. But I was going to usually, you know, some people say you could have red wine with salmon. Yeah. Monking that or is it okay? Yeah, I'm just going to get to that. That's my butt. All right. But Pinot Noir is also a lovely option for salmon, especially if you have salmon that, you know, maybe has more spicier flavors or heavier sauce on top or something like that. Maybe a Pinot Noir would be nice with that, depending on the flavors. And, and I say this, but really look at the other flavors that you have with the salmon as well. You know, if you're doing just a lemon cream sauce, maybe you should stick with more of a citrus-based wine, like a white wine. But if you have some sort of other sauce on top, think about the flavors that would mix well with that. So salmon can be a little bit of a chameleon in that sense. You know, you can, you can have it in its basic form with even a lighter white wine if you choose, like a Sauvignon Blanc, something very aromatic. Regions like all sauce and alto adage make delicious rieslings, Pinot Bianco's or Pinot Blanc's. These are all great wines to enjoy with, you know, your traditional salmon. But once you start adding different flavors to it, it's a good idea to kind of see what kind of sauce or spices you're using and maybe use those to pick the wine that you want to serve with it. Well, you've kind of given us a huge range. It's almost drink what you like. Well, yeah, and you know my rule, my favorite rule to all of this. Do you remember? Sure. When in doubt. Champagne. Probably it's going to be bubbly, right? Yes. You will never ever ever miss with champagne. So if you are stuck and you're serving a salmon plate and you just can't decide if you want to go with Chardonnay or Pinot Noir or Sauvignon Blanc or Riesling or Simeon or Vignet, you know what? Just open a bottle of champagne. Everybody will be happy. So always makes it easy, right? Pleaseing, pleasing everyone. Yes, there you go. I was getting worried that we weren't going to have bubbly today, but we've had it. Yes, always, always, always. Well, Jaclyn Coleman, great advice as always. Thank you so much. Thank you, Linda. And where can we read sure, read more about what you're doing? On Instagram at History A and B, Why? History and Why? History and Why? Great. Thank you. Well, I'm Linda Gassenheimer, and join me next week for more food news and views. [Music] [Music] [Music] You [BLANK_AUDIO]