Seated With Lebo and Thato Rampedi
Breaking Down Masculinity: Stereotypes, Culture, and Identity
[Music] Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome back to a brand new episode of C2 with Leuvantatra and Périti's a special one guys. Usually it's just us two, I'm pretty sure the previous podcast we said we're tired of it just being us two. We'll one more guest interview, we've got Zama Nayou! [Cheering] Really really exciting guys, so she's a friend of like, just the Jita, she was as chosen as an ASM. A couple of weeks ago, a couple of months ago. Yeah, like one of the first videos, like the first like five videos. I think it was the second or the third one. She was our first guest, which is really cool. And then now she's like our first guest in this season of C2 so, that's what's really cool. [Cheering] She's a really fun content creator guys, a lot of dance content, she's an amazing DJ, in entertainment space. gyms, gym content as well, comedy as well, which I don't you do, which I don't you do, you do modeling as well. Which I don't you do. Part class. Yeah, you don't sing, you don't sing, you don't sing, yeah. Oh, not yet. Not yet. Okay. So you can sing. A little bit. You inquire what? Yeah, I loved it. Okay, that's nice. So today's conversation is different. It's a different. It's not different. It's not different. It's a self-help podcast, this is a podcast for you to hear. Yeah. You've been getting such positive DMs, so shout out to you guys. People have been saying like, yo, it used to be so funny and just jokes, but now it's like, you've been leaning forward. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah, which is those things people are scared to speak about with their friends. Yeah. Like you guys say, we always have uncomfortable conversations in a very light hearted manner. And today's topic is rethinking masculinity, breaking down the stereotypes and the stigmas. And I think the best way to do this is by first defining masculinity. Yeah. And then defining toxic masculinity. The purpose of this episode for me, what I'm trying to get from this is to kind of see what's the perfect balance of masculine, masculine. Yeah. And man should be. Yeah. Because we know what they say, a man should be. We know what a man is, but it's like, you know, and I know the type of man I am. Yeah. And often these definitions are something to find in numbers and actually describe us. Yeah. Because of the definitions and what she just thinks about us. But yeah, let's define this before you guys are confused because I'm a bit confused. So masculinity refers to the qualities, attributes and behaviors traditionally associated with men and boys. This can include traits like strength, assertiveness, independence and leadership. It's important to note that masculinity can vary widely, it can vary widely across different cultures and historical periods. They're like, no, it's very different to what a man was back in the day. And then toxic masculinity, on the other hand, refers to cultural norms and behaviors that can be harmful to both men and society. So you're not just harming yourself, you're so harming society in society. This concept includes the gratification of traits like dominance and aggression to the extent that it discourages emotional expression and vulnerability. Toxic masculinity often perpetuates harmful stereotypes as the idea that men should not seek help or show weakness and can lead to negative outcomes like aggression, homophobia and the devaluation of a woman. Yeah. So share of the beds, I'm also the student. Now, first of all, what is the prepared reading? Yo, he's been, he was in the definition for how long, how long was that like two minutes now? And I have a really bad attention span. Yeah. I think he lost me off the definition is. Wow. It was good, it was good, I heard a couple of things. Yeah. Well, I mean, if it's toxic masculinity, it's harmful not only to yourself, but to society. Yes. How? How is that even possible? For example, I could say that like, you know, when a man removes the ability to express himself, it can affect his romantic relationships. Yeah. Before we dive in, please, on this spectrum, describe us as men. Okay. As men? Yeah. I'm going to start with you. Can I go again? Can I? It's fine. Can I go again? Go for it. Okay. I like, I'm describing you as a man, like kind of man, I think you are. Yeah. I think you are a dominant man, you are very, you, you handle things like you take care of things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Hold it down. Like you definitely give me, um, yo guys, we're so sorry for disturbing this episode of Seats It. Bob, we've got such amazing news. KFC can take you down his back and it's nationwide. So if you guys can start on the hype of the Donut Zingar burger, the gravy baby burger, this is your guys time to go to select his toes only. And it's not only just the food guys, they got crazy drinks lined up, such as like the cherry cola pova and the pink citrus crash. Man. Oh, we are excited. And if you guys are homie like me, just hold it. Oh, homie, homie, homie, homie, yo, yo, homie, yo, yo, a homebody like me. You can order it exclusively on KFC delivery plus and as well as Uber eats delivery. Yeah, I guess. So let's see. He's applied. Hey. Hey. So let me start on this. KFC can take you time guys. KFC, it's finger licking good. Back to the podcast. I don't want to say provider because it's not like you have like a family to provide for like that yet. But you definitely have, if I was looking for a man who knows what he's doing, like, but is on a journey of like yourself, I'm assuming you're on your journey and I would want somebody who is focused, like your focus, man, like very focused. Yeah. You're on the grind. You're literally just doing your thing. Thank you. Okay. So like you give me like a man who knows what's happening in his life. Yeah. It takes control of everything that you have to do in your life. Not baby. I don't know. Today. I don't know what I'm going to do. But that's toxic masculinity because men are allowed to cry. Yeah. So I'm going to, so I'm going to correct or add on to what you said and give more depth after you describe. Okay. Yeah. Okay. How can I just, I think it's okay. It's okay. You can be honest. I won't get offended. You can say anything. Okay. Okay. So you are very, this is the wrong word, very, you know, like in a situation where you're in a relationship with somebody, I feel like there will be situations where they try to talk to you about something serious and you'll turn it into like a joke. Okay. Okay. Okay. You're kind of still in your like boyish face. Yeah. Like just the before the let's invest in property. Yeah. But at the same time, but at the same time, you're also invested in your future. Yeah. Yeah. You're definitely focusing and you are on the right path, like you are working towards your future. You, you know, you provide for yourself, you do all of these things, but I think you just very playful. And then before we do the corrections, I want to hear what your definition would be like then for the most perfect man, like the most perfect man, like, like what makes a man, if you had to do it in maybe like three points, what would you say would make a man? I would say somebody who is a natural caretaker, like somebody who takes care. Somebody who you know you can be safe with, not even just physically, but you know, like if you're ever in a situation, you can hit the map and be like, Hey, this is what is going on. Um, somebody who just takes charge and like takes initiative and is, um, very self aware. So we missed the points with the charge. We didn't get charged. You didn't get charged. Yeah. No. Thank you. Do you want to go first about your creations? No, I hear that. But that's, that's, that's, I feel like that's such a, I like that, but also I feel like that's also like both ways. Yeah. It's the way to describe just a reliable partner, but I think like, okay, I'm taking charge parts. Maybe, maybe can be, yeah, like, not take charge, but the counterpart. Cool. Cool. Fly. Do you want to represent yourself or do you want me to do you and then you do me? I think, I think do each other. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, so I go first, which you think is like, okay, go first, you go first, you go first. So I think like online, when it comes to creating content, okay, so in general, there was a funny person. Yeah. It's a funny person. It's a funny brew with his friends and his family. He's a funny person. Even with his, with his romantic partner, she'll be a funny person online. His character is like the funniest person, right? Yeah. So he over-exaggerated. He has a little bit more. It's, it's there. So it makes him seem like he's very childish, very, you know, fun and energy taken playful in real life level, especially, but he is the most Zulu man. I know. And he's like partnerships like, are we la pull up, we be, we be, la pull up, we be. And he's like, for example, now he'll say like that, but with his partner, he'll be like, dog, you're not doing that. Like he's a very, I'm very, he's very dumb, he's a leader, he's a, but also, he's also very soft. Can't be very soft, but the softness comes when it's time for him to care for his partner. Well, when it's time for him to correct statements from his partner, when it's time for him to be like, this is wrong. This is right. Very stern, very strict, very dominant, very Zulu, Zulu man. Okay. Zulu is a very. I'm saying that's because Percy called you a Zulu man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I am like, okay, I'll do title. Okay. So you know what I said? Yeah. I'm not gonna lie. Got you guys. Yeah. Got you. Yeah. I think everything you said about title is a hundred percent true dominant at say 5050, like, I wouldn't say he's the most dominating person, but he is very much like a, like a, this is the direction we're going type person. I think he's like what you said, like very focused. Yeah. So now when you also in the relationship, if you're looking at this, that's a good forecast here. Your contract might get eliminated. So you must take focus. It must be essentially the, I used to like, when I was in relationships in the past, like I'd go, let's say I'd be checking my, my girlfriend at the time. I'd be here. And then I'd come back. When I come back, the place is like turned up, turned inside out, like clean, like she's done everything, whatever. And she's like, bro, I know how to switch out when it comes to like, like doing something in your days. I was, I'm too scared for you to find me how you left me because I'm going to come back and be like, I. But that's awesome. Yeah. That is awesome. You're right. You're right. Okay. Okay. So I want to ask you also, because obviously there's being masculine and toxic masculine, but there's also this new phrase that men are sassy and feminine. So so now what feminine, what feminine as your men would you like in your man? Like what feminine episodes do you think are acceptable for your man to have, for example? He needs to be gentle, gentle, like, you know, men, a lot of the time feel like they need to be rough. They need to be like, oh, you know, and I like, I want a gentle person, somebody who's gentle, somebody who's like patients and just isn't like, you know, this, the toxic side of like where this comes in is where, um, men feel like you guys, people call people that love their partners simps. Yeah, which is wild. It's crazy. That's just lovely. I want me. Literally, like I would rather have a symptom, have somebody who is just nonchalant and it's like no like seriously like every day every day good morning baby 22 eat please come when you can't when you know that's the thing now no we're talking about someone obsessed with you basically because that's what basically something is like okay but I feel like woman takes her I was talking to this one girl a few weeks back yeah some hundred times I'm gonna talk to her talking to better stop right yeah she was like how are you talking loud so romantic girls romantically romanticy romantic yes and she was like bro the world views you as this like strict stir yes unapproachable guy like you know you're big guy tall guy but when you're with me not that I'm a sim but I'm a very soft-com chilling like gentle so she was saying she really enjoys the fact that like knowing is to see the gentle side of me but then on the outside I'm the dominant person all this this yeah whatever so I believe that those types of guys being called sims or is that a sim I don't know I think sims are more like okay so some sort of bruise of the girlfriends no some such just bruise that just loved a girlfriend's like for real like I think that I think it's like yeah like yeah with a bunch of guys that cheat on their girlfriends and they say I'm not cheating on my girl yeah they just like hahaha no baby you're doing the right thing yeah yeah that's what I always say that situation I always say no listen to me I always say no guys like now we'll never do that thing and they're always just like boo I'm like yo it's unfair like I'm worthy no but jokes are some of your friends and relationships oh yeah no jokes aside I think that I think that women like certain feminine like qualities and like made for example like you know bruise that clean bruise that gentle very in touch with the emotions exactly but it does get to a certain extent where like would you say a man is too emotional yeah no no like there needs to be a bit of a balance okay okay okay wait I don't do something sorry for cutting you know all that has to play a game and it's for you this game is for you okay and it's based off of these different things that levels describe basically yeah right sorry for cutting you though so I think this will be last because it'll then also help us we can stop doing a round and we can touch on that okay on that traits right okay cool so uh round one so option you have to choose option A option B option A always pays for dates option B expects partner to split the bull here and there option A always no like if I take him out it's different that's what I'm saying like you said you never take out a mat like you'd never take out a mat I would fully but like if we are chill if like we are going about our day and then we end up at two restaurants that's not really part of my budget and I expect my man to be able to take care of stuff like that yeah real real I agree that yeah okay round two option A never shows the emotion option B openly cries during movies it means also be fun and yeah okay option A option B option A never shows emotions option B openly cries during movies option B yeah like yeah they watch you never show you kind of crazy yeah yeah never string emotion it's like it's a hectic thing you know okay option A dominates conversations option B actively listens and engages option B because as a man you don't need to talk too much yeah you don't need to talk too much like just listen okay option A obsessed with Jim selfies option B enjoys outdoor activities without posting option B okay it's an easy test like these ones I was always good at these in school option A of the option A users pick up lines option B starts conversations with genuine interest option B okay so let's pause there how does someone start a conversation with stranger by the way genuine conversation you'd be surprised really you'd be surprised really teachers like I don't know I would open up for Joe I would love to go to like a spa or see a goal that I'm attracted to and be able to speak to her but in my mind if I'm outside and I speak to what I'm disturbing it yeah you know I think it depends on her interest like if you're somebody that is her type yeah then it's gonna be like she'll actually help you come up with the conversation like it'll be a thing of yeah like for me for example if I'm interested and somebody comes up to me and they tell me that are that Apple you like apples I'll actually be like I love apples you don't actually on this health journey so like oh really important and then we start talking about all of these other things so she says please I don't like that's all you know I might not be you can still help you literally saying you can say anything just be genuine and if she likes you sure she will literally response but not a pickup line a pickup line we're never so boring what not boring they just make me like think yeah really it's like you know it's like a riddle bro yeah yeah you know someone say to me I know your name is I'm I can I'm on my chances with you so you what option a but if it's like a joke like I feel like cuz I always open up with a joke oh yeah I'll be like I feel like you see that person you see that person I'll be like what what person I'd be like now like if future person and right here I can see me ah but anyways but that's the thing if she likes you she'll respond so there's no good a bad way to approach it's if you are the person so in terms of like because I'm throwing us back into like this masculinity chat right have you ever felt responsible for teaching your partner how to be the right type of masculine um yeah okay like I have and is that like something that's like well how did you do what I give us a new scenario an example would be wait let me think like being too rough for example be gentle I'm not your nigga you don't like yeah yeah so I would say so I would say so but at the same time not too much I think I attract the right kind of masculine I think I think for us as men it's very hard to place yourself on the masculine like spectrum especially I think it's very dependent on who you're dating some girls respond very much really like well to a guy that's like very cold very like yeah baby you know and some girls want to you know when I was growing up I never had this I never had that and you always as a man have to adjust yourself to a woman's expectation of what a man is which is very tough because we don't I don't think I think from this conversation we can really see that we don't have a general like definition it's very dependent yeah right so that's just making me think about like or like yeah like you're like like type of dating you for example and meet dating you would be two different experiences and two different types of like masculinity yeah okay a few more avoids girly drinks or orders whatever he likes regardless of stereotypes orders whatever he likes to like strawberry deck be yourself babe really be yourself take charging group settings or encourages group collaboration takes charge like I like I think a man who takes charge in any setting is just automatically attractive but not too much like don't be yeah yeah leads with style yes yeah okay prioritizes career over relationships or balances career and personal life balances career and personal life that's you know that's less income I guess but no but income and memories and moments like you can make money any day you can't you can't compare the two but but money has been a suicide no lift but I agree no money money money is associated with masculinity this is not like the we have terms like the ice boy you know I'm saying ice boy yeah man yeah you know I'm saying so obviously like terms like that differentiate I generally think in my opinion money is linked to how masculine you can be yeah because it sure cares your ability to generate income yeah and as you said care take yeah so and also provide and etc yeah so now I'm when a man now doesn't have that income in your opinion man how now again we are responsible for teaching masculinity as we said how do you now mitigate the risk of loss like now because now you are delivering the way it's you are paying for the yeah you know you are adding a lot of money into your relationship as a woman which I believe is insane first of all but how do you handle it I mean I think it's not really my role like I do a lot of people don't believe in gender roles but I honestly do guys we're male and female for a reason we're not equal we're not supposed to like we're not supposed to be like men are men and women are women you know so in that situation I don't know it would definitely take away from us but if I really like you I guess there's only so much I can be as hell but so it's would you say your deal which did you say your deal breaker in a relationship of a man would be for example like I'm trying to figure out how I'm gonna ask this question I'm trying to say okay so let's say this man right he's big on like gestures and all those things you know like he's getting you that one it's not okay yeah but he's getting in the one flower he is a caretaker yes but he's caretaking in noodles for example okay sharp you have to pay but it's once in a while once in two months is that type of relationship still like within the okay it's what I was trying to see yeah I think you sent me a tik-tok of some couple who like went they woke up in the morning took a taxi to mainland oh yes took a taxi to mainland to mainland he changed he changed the part of the suit they went to spur like they basically celebrated his birthday in the most affordable way yeah and it's at his it showed you that he's partnered to remind them what are the comment sections and the comment section oh I read the comment section and the woman was roasting him they were like what type of man wears the suit at a bowling alley what type of man takes like you know I'm saying that social media he has been it's just so crazy yeah which is why for me like detaching away from social media in relationships is a very big part of relationships because if your relationship is so enticed into like people's opinions it will like disintegrates as time goes by you know I'm saying true true. Zama what do you think like the the need for masculinity like comes from like do you think men are or becoming masculine to like showcase other men who's the most you know manly man or do you think it's like yearn from from woman and we are now showing up to you guys that's how you guys want to receive us. Honestly I think it comes from God like in the beginning of time we were taken as woman from the rib and you guys were on this place to Adam was here he named he had the role to name everybody every animal he was put in God on the Eden to take care of it all and then you know women entered through a man you know then what happened and then sin entered as well they lost the property they lost the enemas they even lost the dew of the Evelle they lost everything up there he lost the living and then chaos fought it on earth because of women there we go but but men have the items apple doesn't make sense so one of us is lying but it's fine I think it comes from that honestly think it's not like that's just the way God has ordained things to be like men are we're placed here first you guys and then because of all of because of the sin and everything that happened God said you guys will work but you will sweat for your your food yeah will work for your food you will do all of that and then women as well we have our own you know we have to go through pain of childhood you have to you know all of that but I think if we take out society and how people believe we are supposed to what society believes masculinity is and excuse me where the that line comes from it's it's it actually comes from just the way God ordained I think 100% agree with you I think the only problem now is because you're basically justifying being pro gender roles which I also agree with because that's how things have been for for centuries the problem is now the the scale of of the masculinity is being affected now which now introducing toxic masculinity so it's like yes a man must be a leader but now he's not allowed to showcase any emotions so how do we now find that's the balance between you should be a masculine man because you know that's how things are like but also okay for you to lead but sometimes have a little bit of emotions here and there it's okay for you to lead but you know I'm saying I think it's what's like someone said I'm not I'm also very religious and I believe you go by the Bible the Bible will tell you everything you need to do a new relationship you know I mean like it will tell you you're a man a man must provide for his woman he will it will say a woman will serve he's her husband yeah all of those things and and like I said I like to say I dig for marriage right so in in all of this is our practice for how we will live our our marriage life right and I want to determine in this stage of relationship what type of masculinity I must be so because obviously now I like I said like we said now it's very dependent on like who you dating I'm saying so you're saying everyone was just so you must follow the rules yeah follow the muscular and then the scale is up to depend on your partner because your partner ultimately is the one experiencing you yeah I don't know if that makes sense she's the one who's experiencing you so why not go to her preferences and how she wants to be loved but still maintain yeah that position of like gender roles yeah I don't know what do you yeah fully oh yeah basically saying date someone who's willing to receive you as you but show up as muscular yes I mean we I think a huge thing about relationships is that like people like love the finished products prove none of us are finished products we still have so many years to develop and if you have a mindset like that in your relationships it will reflect in like how you adjust your characteristics how you try to like a try I'm just your mannerisms etc yeah yeah I'm saying I think that's very fair yeah I'm saying oh you break up yeah yeah have you ever like had to change you know how do I behave due to toxic musculine yes yes I'm a little girl so I'll back in my even within friendships and stuff but yeah yeah when I was in high school I dated a weeper bro like she would cry at like every small thing you know like that I come so I don't know how to beat you and like I just feel like please you know I'm saying those type of waves you know you holding a hand and you know he breathing of and stuff and all those things and I am I'm my father son I'm very logical I'm not even much I'm a very logical person if A and B what comes after me after B see you can't tell me there comes after C just because emotionally there's a gap between you know I'm saying so I guess but okay no go ahead I emotions also play yes and so I had to become now the softest most sponge like partner type five right way again you don't get to be like are we love you like please are we lapo you know what I'm saying yeah what about you never know I mean it's like so like being emotional and being sensitive also like it's like it's frowned upon so with my like guy friends like I'm the type of guy like because of my sister always sharp sharpness I love you guys like how are you like you know like how are you doing so like I would show away from those type of things with my previous friendship throw up because it was like kind of frowned upon like how do I use those and twice and stuff at the time I being say emotion I was like no Jen's like if we're gonna be friends I want to talk about like girls and I grew like I don't know like if you're good like how's work for you also I want you to know why you're still here that I also came love you so like I'm saying like I love you so much like yeah I'm saying oh I love you though because you also didn't know the last time you can say that it gave me so that's like well a place where it's like a dude men don't do that but now I don't care because I think I tell you a bit I think I don't tell my boys I love them person never says it back but I always but I always say I know actually all it says it no I said to be like I said like dog I love you he's like oh yeah we are way so you see you see the cops quintess has it when he feels it we should often usually penises to drive through people in yeah it's just to uber he's driver's and drive through people which is weird job thank you love you Tina says it to me CS says it to me content says it when he's you know three yeah he's one of the most masculine yes out of our emotional yeah man ever yeah like I want one time I called once and I said I think such a bad day bro I don't know what I'm gonna do he's like but like what are you gonna stop this thing of like like complaining boys and like do something about it I'm like dude I'm I'm then so again like again I think we'll we tried to do this new age of like masculinity which has feminine features in it and etc so we try to be sensitive but still be a man and I hope you can see it's a very hard act it is because you get to be you I guess yeah but if I flip it into like femininity how do I say this femininity femininity yeah that one one femininity femininity femininity if you look at your femininity now as a contrast is it is it would you say it's a polar opposite to what you perceive masculinity to be or would you say it still has as type of said like yo this like what I want from a girl so would you say it's identical actually I wouldn't say it's identical but they are some parts where it's like it's kind of like fits yeah it fits like there needs to be a balance of everything okay like I definitely like I know I'm not ready to get married because I'm not trying to submit to a man right now okay but when the time comes when I do get married I know that I have to allow my man to lead okay okay okay okay so now what marriage is far in the boyfriends where is the submissions do you submit to the boyfriend or is that like I'm trying to see like when in in womanhood do you say to yourself okay right now is the time when now I will suddenly okay how does listen how does it look let's first paint how it looks first and then maybe we can go on to the questions yeah how was other feminism look like yeah like how does feminism sorry whoa how does femininity look like yeah yeah it's like yeah I would say it looks like for me I can only speak for myself but for me it's about being taken care of it's about um just but I'm receiving the muscle unity yeah I'll die die die die die die die I just send it to anyone you're talking to you just say hey by the way he's like I want real though like I think I definitely play my role but the same way I will like I'll be that partner then like if you're hungry I'm gonna make you a good meal not because not because I'm objected to but because it's just I love taking care of a partner okay like it's in my nature it's part of like being a woman you know you know you know you know I struggle now like so I'm a very like leader dominant man paying the standard whatever thingy but it's time for my partner to cook for me clean for me I struggled to receive it so much I don't say I'm saying maybe because it's like maybe it's a thing of yeah even in relationships man let's see I've got a goal over she's like I've been she's come over this the fourth time the first three times I've bought food the fourth time I've got groceries like not coffee I'd like it's not yeah I'm like oh my god like oh my god she really cooked like but I think that's when you that's where you need to let that toxin toxic masculinity go yeah I feel like yeah you need to allow yourself yeah you need to allow yourself to receive as well as much as cuz when like that's the thing about partners like it was so crazy there was I was one of my friends yesterday and he like so he stays the side I stay in Pretoria so it's the thing of he'll drop me off in the middle that I request and I was like there was no need for that though because now we've been we were having fun we're drinking like all of that and now he's driving these cops all of that I didn't want that situation so now we came into like almost an almost a fight because I was like no I was just gonna request really I'm ubering so I'll just uber that side and then you are her because we're in Santa and then he was like no but it's safer for you and I was like okay but I also care about you safety like you're gonna have to go back and drive so now it's a thing of we both were caring about each other's safety so you also need to allow yourself to receive so when I was like okay was to be a man realizing that like I do enough to receive yeah like that can't apply literally you do what is the standard right now yeah like for like you know boyfriend told me everything we like I think we all did really well yeah but it's the other side they really struggle to accept women because also you have to understand women complain a lot online like a lot yeah like a lot we are scared we are scared I'm scared if I say can I have it Lee Dombolo I might see it on Twitter the next day Hasegli Dombolo has taken up baby Hasegli when they cook for you then you're gonna say look at this breakfast like it doesn't slap yeah if it doesn't slap and someone you say I've dated girls where they food didn't bang also by the way yeah like I did it goes where like the food didn't bang at all we'd always like it take out what I cook but when it when she did make food did you eat it no when she made food it felt like it was a threat in your life in my life yes I finished the plate really of course I would after that I'd go into the bathroom I think as much as I lose whatever I'm always but but on that side so when a woman is missing those amenity qualities as men yeah what do you think our response should be should we just be okay you know the woman then we're out yeah because because for many if you're not a dis man you're out so also for us we must be that way always because we're also very vocalist I know like I've been with the girls where I don't see the feminine side kind of not enough oh I like it you got I'm saying like company comes to cleanliness yeah comes to even maybe the way that they are dressing talking do we correct or do we move away in like a distance I think it's always good to communicate and correct because you know at the end of the day we need each other and it's important like the only way you can know you're doing something wrong is if somebody's vocal about it you know so I think like speak speak your truth like mention what you need change but but what how do you speak with that the person taking offense yeah but then then it's it's a damn problem like I think the best way you can say is listen I want to talk to you about something and I don't want you to take this in the wrong way okay you need to you need to like find more like you're very emotionally intelligent thank you yeah yeah no you need to like let's talk about this yeah I got a scene yes but listening I think it's like we said like how we said earlier a lot of responsibility sometimes lies on women to teach them to teach men how to be like the type of man they're gonna be and equally it takes on our role as well to to communicate and say listen I actually like this and listen yeah because that's the thing my mom always taught me like when you are with somebody you everybody likes to be loved in a different way maybe your love languages physical touch and somebody else's love language is quality time but you don't really value time like that yeah for you it's not so you need to understand like what somebody likes to how they like to be loved and by that it's through communication so you need to like not to necessarily teach somebody how to love you because when you with somebody they need to have love already yeah but you need to show them how you like to be loved and what you like for yourself you know and vice versa I'm sorry so okay and you're a single yeah guys okay so you're single then so one more time so you said earlier on the podcast you said how like oh no like right now I know I'm not really to submit to a man right now right what are sort of the requirements that you say to yourself like okay this is my face of my life right now I'm not willing to submit like what makes you say that about your life that you're not ready right now to encounter like what put you there yeah like what picture people might be back home and they like might be like I'm in that phase of like maybe I should also not be submitting to men and what so so I have this analogy okay wait wait let me take it back I feel like for me I'm still very focused on myself I grew up in a household where my mom basically took care of everything and maybe that's like trauma to an extent but I feel the need to always make sure I hold it down like I don't want to need a man like like I want to need my husband and that's also why I think I need to heal like I need to remove that part because if I do later I meet a man and now you know I'm gonna need him I want to need my man but I don't want to need a man right now like I don't want to need y'all like do you think do you think you think you're in fear of needing um because you understand that like when you're in a relationship you're gonna submit to the man and lean on the man so not because of your want and a husband yes you get that because if you want to your husband your love that has been to be anyone like anyone that comes and really is to make your wife no no absolutely not oh gosh it's a scary world out here but you that's the thing my analogy is basically you see you you you and you you know yourself I know myself very well you know what you do behind closed doors you know all of the all of the above and now if you had to have somebody come into your life like you know how disciplined you are you know how much self-control you have you know all of these things about yourself if you had to have somebody come into your life and they have the exact same traits as you same discipline same amount of everything like you know self-control all of that would you be satisfied with that person that's the thing I know I knowing myself I'd definitely say no okay like that's just me being honest yes right because obviously there's so much there's so many things that I feel as if that I needed to work on yeah and that's why I'm seeing what you're taking me through it so that means I must stop talking to girls because that's how I feel I know I'm trying to see whatever oh so I like that you took me through it so so the point of that question is to basically be like are you where you meant to be yes like do you feel like yeah basically that are you okay like if you had to receive somebody that is hey wait wait what was your answer I know you said in your mind I'm just stupid I said it out loud really what is your answer you have to think about it's my answer was like very powerful stuff by the way yeah it's really good very powerful because you literally forced me to metaphorically look into a mirror and say do I want to give this person to the world yeah but some have some understand some some people I would say are they hardest critics but they still are deserving of love to get what I'm saying yeah cuz I want to say my answer is lucky yes like I work yeah like if a person came with the same ambition as me the same work ethic as me the same ability to love is me the same consideration the same everything yeah everything I'd be like okay cool but I can also see that me and this person thought it's just it's still a journey yes but I'd be willing to go to the journey with that person okay yeah okay that's beautiful I think I think for me like I'm also 27 I think so like I'm also like yeah yeah I just think for me it's like I love so much like my heart is like I don't be won't believe me but I'm being for like my heart is so big I'm so sensitive with like love yeah that I just want the ability to be able to give that same month receive it basically I don't think anyone at this current time that I'm that I know has that amount of love that I am able to give or maybe let's say your type because they all goes to have the table yes but they better must also be mine that you go for yes yes yes because you have so much love to give you always trying to show yeah I'm always trying to overcome because it's not love enough love I don't not sing enough love in the bucket but yeah you give it to the wrong people as well yeah that means you pouring to the wrong people so I really like yourself I really like that because no one is pouring back into you can't wait to cook that question on the group challenge gents and like me no but I really like that I really like this shit wow yeah that's good yo that like it's it has me like in a weird position right now cuz I agree with you but I was I'm yes I'm saying no I wouldn't give this myself to other people but at the same time my cure did I bang so much like why would I not give this yeah um yeah deep question so deep that the camera cops yeah guys like we thought of talking we said actually we considered yeah you know let's cut that part out but we're back now yeah so I saw you know while preparing for this episode I was like there's an a beer point where we speak about masculinity and we see that there's gonna be a need for men and learn toxic traits within that subject matter and so I got like a five-step guide on how to overcome toxic must be nice things I want to go through it maybe we also need it one second Wow yeah yeah you're fucking here is I want to hear what the church you know about being a man baby let's see if you go to dinner he doesn't know the feeling that though oh is it you don't have it yeah it's probably my attack but I remember I remember it said though the first but it was like literally you know the grieving steps when you agree the steps of grieving oh like steps um when you lose someone those steps that you go through but it's why he's looking for I actually want to speak to you and say that so now of course you've now determined okay I'm not ready to submit to a man I'm not ready for that not right not not right now yeah um so what happens if do you have you ever gone to that thing where you've met the perfect person but the wrong time I don't believe in that so you don't believe in that at all okay that's basically saying that God timing is off and I feel like every person is put on your life for a reason it's either for a season it's either for whatever it is to teach you whatever you have to go through but they never come at the wrong time they were supposed to experience you before you had this podcast they were supposed to experience you before you made yourself who you were they were supposed to experience you after you made yourself who you were every single person has a part to play in your life the same way you have this a part to play in their life so there's no such thing as wrong right person wrong side so God send me all those talking to the agent to teach me why oh yeah for me it's like the moment I can see like okay this is becoming a godly relationship I'm like I'm in the right place but the moment I'm like oh this has become a bit like closer to how which is like what I present a way for a really away from God so like now we just always partying we're drinking always like it's never like let's cook a mealless pains let's make a that's when I'm like okay on the spectrum of like am I in the right place or not yeah yeah cuz like I said God send me doesn't play yeah that's good question yeah so in a situation like that where you feel like you are in a place where you meeting people who are either from hell or from heaven yeah do you feel like what is your take on abstinence no I don't believe in giving up with a relationship let me tell you I came out no wait I don't believe in giving up anything me and I don't give up on myself I don't give up anything I mean I don't believe in pausing I go I go I go into like I'm really never you sing a little so I'm saying not like he says like you've never stopped having sexual issues no no so for me would you stop having sex so I'm saying it doesn't only be doesn't it's not only sexual yeah there's certain things you can do in your relationship to like like what like for example you can say to okay we're gonna stop drinking we're gonna start eating healthy yeah so we're standing abstaining from like fast food and stuff yeah so I've done things like that okay sexually I will never be still a bit in a relationship because that is how I experience my love for you this is deception no I'm being and I've trained too long to be no there is no I'm being so the way you feel like this now yeah and you went to wife yes yes yes now do you feel like you would be okay with her also exploring like to relationship relationship relationship yes I don't want I'm sorry my wife must not be embarrassed of her sexual joy no it's not about being embarrassed I think it's about you know guys like this whole this is a number there's too much I know it's not even about the number it because it can be that one person you can literally like I think people don't understand how deep sexual intercourse is like a lot of people think it's just sex and it's like oh my gosh it's my first time but people are actually carrying you were carrying soul ties with each other we're carrying and these people you will you'll literally see a beautiful woman and you think like I'm just oh you I just want to have that and she's like her journey and her mission like she knows what she's doing she's like I'm collecting souls and you're going and you're sleeping with people like that because you just don't want to abstain you don't know but I'm more of a learn-on-the-job type guy not learn from a textbook I prefer the practicals to go through that and say okay cool I had no emotional connection of that woman and the sex was like still good or still bad or etc. what type of sex do I want for myself but not let me take a break from sex and decide whatever I want to still see how do you feel about this tattoo on these last points so I can't I've tried it before and I can't have sexual issues with the call that I'm genuinely yes I tried it I tried it and I was like yo yes I'm abstaining I think in relationship if you guys can see that you're in a specific part of like you know whatever you're going it's not good it's good to abstain like if you see okay cool maybe we're having too much sex and it's affecting like work and stuff or whatever or relationship let's talk cool I'm down with that I'm down for syllabus in relationships to do I'll celebrate one's in relationship I was to been celibate what's my partner and Rose really good for us because we felt like there's a disconnect whatever so that helps horrible time in my life yeah I meant that you guys speaking about those things so it's alright being celibate what you guys closer yeah yeah yeah yeah because that's the thing I think like guys we don't actually like now imagine if you went silly but how close we don't think it's just one of those things where it's like I've experienced like being with somebody and then like as somebody who is abstaining I'm waiting for marriage I have been in a situation where it's like okay my partner I love him so much so much and I'm like okay I'll just compromise this and I'll just and everything just goes downhill from there because now you're really making compromises you're really feeling like this person doesn't love me just because I don't want to give them sex like that's crazy like you know I think this society like sex is such a thing now it's so normalized it's very popular also yeah it's very popular and that's where self-control comes in like you need to be self-controlled I think I was on the opposite side of that like I dated this girl they have dated so many girls and so many stories but I've dated this girl and she was like she was celibate and she was waiting for marriage and I was on her journey with her and I waited with her I didn't complain and I think towards the end of the relationship I started saying you know I actually did we've been together for like coming years I really want to try this thing once I just need to know so you hadn't broken your virginity yet no I had so and then and I remember the most the number one theme that she kept saying is after we have sex then what like then what like what are we gonna like what's gonna change between you and are you still not gonna love me you know what all of this is that and I also said after sex then what you're still gonna love me you still know etc etc but I was so uncomfortable things myself I'm gonna date this person until we get married and I'm only gonna find out on the wedding day they're gonna have sex and keep in mind after we broke up she had sex with the next guy so it's just me that she didn't want to have sex with type by okay but I guess it depends on the journey but I hear you the season she was hyper focused on yes yes but that taught me that like I've been a thing for like so many years of this girl the one girl I loved so much when the whole time I could have just been having sex with her and experiencing it and before this yeah I get you so I understand your sex with that love is just horrible bro it's like it's like riding a bicycle with those other wheels you know the ones that help you learn how to ride a bicycle when you want to turn fast you can't turn you know you're not happening in relationships now so I feel like we always like we get comfortable with each other we get served dopamine dopamine hits from from sex and then we stop spending time with each other in the relationship so now it's like dopamine watch TV together watching the show dopamine have sex dopamine have sex dopamine go out there's like you stop going on to your partner you stop showing your partner now also in your phone your partner then you have sex so when you remove sex is like you find other ways to get a dopamine release and hits through doing a puzzle together through that one is there's so many different levels of intimacy yeah there is there is sex always clouds the rest other ones yeah but such a big cuz sex is also yeah and it bangs your sex is a lot of the body you know it is obviously if I say this they're like oh that was like a lot you know what I'm saying sometimes you can even look at the other person and say wow you should we have done this but I like what you think about like relearning how to be intimate of your partner with in a non-sexual way I think that's something that like I've always just been good at I'm very romantic bro ish so like I've always just been like and I love spending time on my partner so that's why I also just like a boat it's like a bonus track why can't you wait for it hey so I wasn't so I wasn't I wasn't I wasn't pro waiting for it I was pro abstaining when there's apps when when you guys are liking yes some action yeah if you do like your partner abstaining like you know what's crazy the older I get and the most sex I have the more I'm like oh this thing should actually be like we are wanting to know like once once in a while no this should be a very like regular but it should happen in a stage where I'm in deep love with someone man like at least at least yeah like yeah it would I think it'd be fair to say it's not good for anyone to have sex with in talking stages like yeah we have sex with your girlfriend yeah I agree that when I agree with cuz sex is a lot girls you mind that was added in the Bible of like don't have sex before in my opinion it was added in the Bible because they were trying to say to you guys is because back then there was no condoms there was no yeah so they were trying to make sure that no one has in the little bit children with and you still want to fall in love with other people like rather just wait you know stand and I think yeah cool I will say it's a huge it's a huge test and and and a huge way to estimate how much a partner loves you by saying let's be celebrate cuz if they were allowed to listen no no one then that means that it was never that deep wow okay so we've obviously enjoyed our time with you it was very nice I feel like today I was more like a audience member like I was really enjoying I was enjoying throwing a comment like a topic and then hearing how you guys feel about it yeah I think we're so opposite like we're so like on different sides of different things so it's very nice to hear both sides I hope that you guys enjoyed it back home let us know what your favorite parts are and of course please follow yeah if you guys want to see her again we'd love to have again let us know because I know it'll be cool to have like friends with the podcast I was like yeah cuz you him and I have spoken yeah we know everything about each other nice so like maybe like Zama can come frequently maybe she comes once in a while let us know like let's be like yeah or maybe say I like if it wasn't yeah I tell the truth I'm sure it was amazing but yeah continue so I'm a bad yeah but Joe guys please make sure that you just subscribe actually drop a comment this time yeah I haven't seen some engagement in a while the previous podcast you guys engaged a lot but like yeah tell us how that made you feel like unpacked like summarize there is no way you stand also with like you know masculinity yeah thank you so much and we'll see you guys next time with seats at the level and tattoo and Zama thank you guys for having me beautiful souls and I really want you guys to stop giving yourselves people who don't deserve you okay and just yeah I keep doing what you guys are doing you guys are doing amazing and it's literally I'm close to the top shut out thank you so much nice thank you Zama I wish you guys wouldn't be able to see it on audio but she put a hand up and she just kept pointing out so yeah I know it's I'll do it but see you guys next week bye