Boston Public Radio Podcast

BPR Full Show 9/18: Liverwurst Ep. 2

We opened the show to get your thoughts on the threats of and actual violence this election season.GBH executive arts editor Jared Bowen discusses the return of Boston Film Fest and "Laughs in Spanish" at Speakeasy Stage.National security expert Juliette Kayyem discusses leaders around the world reacting to the potential for election violence in America and Israel's attack on Hezbollah.We host a busing panel with former mayor Kim Janey and NAACP's Michael Curry - who were both bused as children - and Northeastern Professor Ted Landsmark.The ACLU of MA executive director Carol Rose discusses the Massachusetts Election Action Plan, abortion on the ballot across the country, and the potential for SCOTUS to pick our next president.Finally, we (Jim) lament the loss of Boars Head liverwurst.

Broadcast on:: 18 Sep 2024
Audio Format:: other

Support for Boston Public Radio comes from the University of New England, Maine's most attended independent university, preparing students for careers in health, science, business, and beyond. The University of New England, UNE.edu. And the Office of the Massachusetts State Treasurer, the Unclaimed Property Division is holding unclaimed funds from medical bills, uncached paychecks, savings accounts, and more. To see if you have unclaimed money, you can visit findmassmoney.gov. I am Marjorie Eakin, you are listening to Boston Public Radio, 897GBH, we are broadcasting live from the Boston Public Library streaming at youtube.com/GBHNews. Later in the show, the former mayor of Boston, Kim Janie, Michael Carrios, with us all the time, from the NAACP and a big healthcare guy, and Ted Landsmark. You may recall, he was the lawyer in the black lawyer in three pieces who was attacked by a teenager from Charleston with an American flag, 50 years, well, actually he was 76. But we're talking about 50 years since Boston's busing crisis, it's the anniversary of that and all three of those people were intimately involved in the busing situation. Good morning, Jim. Hey there, I'm really looking forward to the discussion since we both are and we think you're probably are too. We decided to not do our little text in the segment, 1255, today we'll return to that tomorrow. So with less than two months to go until the election, concerns about violence come November and before are growing. Donald Trump, as you know, was stood two apparent attempts on his life and is running made in other allies are openly discussing the possibility of assassination of Kamala Harris and Joe Biden. White-wing anti-immigrant rhetoric has led to bomb threats, school closures in Springfield, Ohio. The war between Israel and Hamas has led to violence here in Newton between pro-Israel and pro-Palestinian demonstrators and the FBI is now investigating the delivery of suspicious packages with white powder sent to election workers in more than 15 states including here in Massachusetts. So with all the talk of the stakes of this election, are you fearful that American democracy has frayed to the breaking point around the world? The perception of America's bastion of liberal democracy has been shaken ever since Trump entered the political sphere with more people globally saying they expect violence here. By the way, we're not talking about violence post-election where Trump to lose. That clearly will be his goal based on history. The issue is you worried about violence in our communities leading up to the election in the 48 days to go. I want to repeat. We have this libertarian party just to our north that is talking about assassinating Kamala Harris and whoever did it would be an American hero. We have the shooter in Newton, as you've mentioned before and I just mentioned a minute ago. We have one of these 16 packages. The good news is the one package that at least as of this morning has been analyzed. It was flour, not something terribly dangerous, but nevertheless scary right at one Ashburton place. This is not some far away land. This is happening. This is right here in our midst. The question is not just the fear of violence in a country where violence historically has generally not been part of our election cycle. What does this do to people's willingness to serve as election workers? Like those two women Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss who won that hundred and some million dollar verdict against Rudy Giuliani after their lives were ruined by Giuliani and Trump. You'll remember them. What is it being for voters? Are they going to say I don't want to go to the polls? I don't mean a huge numbers but in small numbers that could decide elections in key states. This is really at least to me a terribly frightening kind of development. Well NPR had a great summation talking about our long history of political violence in the United States, but there's this new twist to it. They talked about the seven, of course obviously back before the Civil War. That was pretty bad. They were bad other periods but in the 20th century the 70s were considered kind of the high water market violence, a lot of anti-Vietnam war agitation, the big activists fighting for Puerto Rican independence, domestic terrorism like the Q+ clan. But what they see is kind of different now is we've got kind of politics and then we've got the culture at wars and all that is thrown in with kind of this polarization of the country like we're so 50/50 split and then the rise of all these conspiracy theories and the misinformation and the disinformation and kind of everything that's gone out to with Israel and Gaza has become a big, as you mentioned, the situation over there in Newton and then it added. Well also in the 70s it wasn't top down. Now a lot of it's coming from the top rather than the ground. Well that's one of the points of the story that I should put in the gun culture thing before I move on to this and we'll talk about with this with Juliet Kiam a little bit later but she was the first person I heard talking about something called stochastic terrorism. What's that meaning again? Well it's a terrorism not necessarily motivated by certain ideology but instigated by what individuals may be inspired to carry out based on dog whistles of somebody who might be a charismatic leader and of course I think when I say that people think of Donald Trump. And the pet eating is a good example I would guess. Yeah the egging on or kind of walking right up to the line and pushing supporters right into the my set of violence by saying things like oh you know we got to fight really hard it won't be a country or you know go ahead and you know take somebody out in that rally because we don't like you know if you beat about the person in the rally don't wear out pay their their medical bills and then you when you're accused of or their lawyer bills I should say were they're accused of doing that then they say well I was just was just heated rhetoric you know it's nothing so that's that's I think that's what is very prevalent now is that kind of stochastic terrorism they're talking about obviously political leaders like Trump. I missed I was watching the choice we're gonna have Michael Kurt the brilliant filmmaker from frontline with us tomorrow. The choice is what he does every four years with these deep profiles of both of the major candidates running for president so I missed Anderson Cooper but speaking of dog whistles J.D. Vance was talking about fascism last night can you fill people in on what happened there. Yeah so they had they put together a great clip because he's been running around complaining that the Kamala Harris side is as bad as the Trump side and I don't think that's anywhere near true so here's this side by side kind of deal courtesy as you said from Anderson Cooper on CNN first you'll hear J.D. Vance at this campaign rally chiding Democrats for talking about Trump and the threat of fascism and then you'll hear Donald Trump look we can disagree with one another we can debate one another but we cannot tell the American people that one candidate is a fascist and if he's elected it is going to be the end of American democracy she's a fascist fascist fascist fascist bar left fascist these are young smart people that happen to be fascist fascist fascist fascist movement that wants to throw you in jail fascist this is fascist fascist the fascist he's surrounded by fascist and corrupt and fascist that's pretty great but what it's very funny about that I think some people have called Donald Trump a fascist because he's a right wing guy he's an authoritarian guy he's a dictatorial guy like military kind of stuff he likes Putin strong men yeah strong men so this is a right wing you know and Antifa right that was anti-fascist that's what Antifa was he can't be so calling her followers a fascist all the time at the same time you're saying she's too liberal to run the country it's kind of you know it's kind of mixing up his terms there you know we're gonna get two calls in Texas in a second eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seventy J.D. Vance is obviously attempting to be a mini Trump and I think failing he's obviously attempting to be a provocate or can you can you remember one candidate in for national office in our lifetimes who has never had a good day as a candidate there's no day that J.D. Vance doesn't step the I'm serious I mean this guy is a drag on this Trump ticket unlike anything you know it may solidify his MAGA base but I don't think Trump needed J.D. Vance to solidify his MAGA base can you think of one thing he's done since he was named that has helped the candidacy of the guy's run I'm serious is there one thing well I think the problem for J.D. Vance he's obviously a really really smart guy I'm not sure that that's as clear you think no no I just think he he is he's a very smart guy I mean who came through a hellish childhood and it's got serious problems with the horrific childhood he endured I think he needs a bit more therapy so the problem is he's together with Donald Trump we also know some serious problems so you have two people desperately need a therapy who could be running the country in just a few months Jim you know by the way for those one last thing before we do get to your calls I think it's important so that we don't I don't know if I can handle today Cole saying that you know both sides that kind of thing because it is not even it's not even worth 30 seconds of discussion I used to lobby Mike DeWine when he was a member of the House of Representatives when I was lobbying Washington he's a very very conservative I think pretty honest guy but a really rock ribbed conservative Republican here is the governor of Ohio Mike DeWine again he supports his senator J.D. Vance he supports Trump's candidacy here he is on ABCs this week refuting the Haitian migrant lies from Vance and Trump look there's a lot of garbage on the internet and you know this is a piece of garbage that was simply not true there's no evidence of this at all there hate groups coming into Springfield we don't need these hate groups I saw a piece of literature yesterday that the mayor told me about from purportedly the KKK I played that for two reasons Marjorie one to say please don't waste your time today saying you saw a social media post suggesting the pet eating thing is true again the very conservative governor of Ohio who supports Vance and Trump says it's a piece of garbage but you know what he didn't have the courage to do in a statement what criticized Vance and Trump for perpetrating he was willing to criticize it but criticized the online perpetration of the pet eating thing about Haitian migrants not willing to call out the people who responsible for it you know the book has a story the day front page I think it was the Sunday paper about the people that were the big critics of Trump including Sununu up in New Hampshire they've all come back to the fold I mean he was a total fraud he's not running but Sununu he's not running again I know so why people tell the truth when they're not running again but not there he hasn't Seth and Salem thank you for calling hi Seth hi how's it going guys good I just wanted to say that there's no doubt in my mind that there's going to be some sort of political violence that is incited by Trump this election but one thing that I need to encourage everybody to listen to is the latest episode of a podcast called prosecuting Donald Trump and it goes into how they cannot steal the election and what sort of safeguards have been put in place in 2020 to avoid that and I think if it put my mind at ease and I think it would put a lot of people's mind at ease out there well except for the extent that if I may before you continue I'm glad to put your mind at ease but it's full of crap I mean I'll give you an example they are putting election deniers in positions of power in Georgia and their goal if you read these stories is to ensure that there is not certification of a Harris victory if there is one in Georgia so the legislature can pick the electors and if Harris's campaign has a problem with the legislature picking the electors you who decides the issue trumps nominees and three other conservatives on the Supreme Court of the United States so with all their respect okay well that I mean I don't think well go ahead go ahead Seth why did you think this was so definitive for you made you feel good well I would absolutely I was absolutely in Jim's corner on this one and and there's still part of me that's a little bit leery about this but I really suggest that you listen to it and they're absolutely not Trump supporters I understand what's the name of it one more time Seth prosecuting Donald Trump called prosecuting Donald Trump who did it who did it Seth uh Andrew Weisman oh oh he's a congressman guys no yeah he was in the he's in Congress he was the Mueller he was the Mueller guy he was done on Mueller's election no you're talking about Goldman who's known Congress he was on the mark and that's we will definitely check it out Seth and and I hope it's more encouraging than I feel and Seth thank you for sharing that with us I appreciate it as long as we're recommending things I should recommend something I saw last night HBO stopped the steal and that was obviously after the election in 2020 but it was a fascinating well actually it started before the election with Trump even then building up or taking away people's confidence that the election would be fair but it's a fascinating look at how we got from the fall of of 2020 to January 6th it's quite scary and one of the points that you made about the heroism of a lot of Republicans that did the right thing particularly Raffensburg or down in Georgia who was under and that is assistant in the Secretary of State's office Gabriel Spirling right who said someone's going to die yeah it's really worth watching if you have HBO and when I was watching this I was thinking thank goodness for those rock ribbed very honest upstanding and courageous Republicans who stopped this around the country and I was not no fan of Mike Pence's policies but thank God for him on January 6th but to your point there's been a lot of reworking of a lot of these legislatures and these people in charge since then which makes me nervous so I'll have to read I'll have to listen to prosper you know I'm speaking of courageous you and I praise what's the name of the guy who's this former speaker of the house in Arizona can you look it up and let me know he's the guy who testified in front of the January 6th committee he says I couldn't do what Trump asked me to do because I believe in the Constitution I believe in the Constitution and it was really and he's another very conservative Republican people surrounded his home rusty bowers thank you Zoe and as soon as he walked out in the hall he was interviewed by reporter and he says well if Donald Trump is the nominee will you vote for him he says yes yes yes he was in stop you last night - oh he was yeah he was in stop the steal kept asking Rudy Giuliani a lot of great scenes of Rudy Giuliani with whatever he put on his hair dripping down with that press conference a dye that didn't work as well as it should have anyway Todd from Madelboro thank you for calling hello Todd hey thanks for taking my call sure though I called it before about Haiti because I worked there a couple years ago for a couple of years I remember Senator DeWine I'm not going to identify the organization I work with he would come down he was a donor I had colleagues that took him out to see the project and I am extremely disappointed that he's not more vigorously speaking out against these horrific comments against the hintion well let me be clear because maybe I wasn't he's speaking out powerfully against as he calls it a piece of garbage the reports about the pet eating thing he is not identifying his party's nominee as the source as the perpetrators of this that's where he has shown weakness and I'm disappointed to Todd what did he care about this because there's a significant Haitian population in Ohio is that why he was participating in your work um I can't recall years ago what the population in Ohio was I mean he made multiple trips to hate really my colleagues I worked with yeah he my colleagues would take him out to see projects and activities I didn't meet him personally but I knew he would be coming in we would be discussing um you know planning well thank we appreciate it really I'm sorry good I was going to I'm really disappointed did not denounce but like I said the trump and dances so I'm on you know uh you know that can fault you know falsehoods about the community Todd thank you for the call we are by the way I think people know we the third largest concentration of Haitians in greater Boston I think we're one of the biggest I think it's the third largest and I think I honor Presley is the co-chair of the the Haitian caucus and I think in Washington we are attempting to get a couple of leaders in that community to join us next week talk about what's sort of the trickle down impact beyond Springfield Ohio has been based upon all this eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seventy Bob and Arlington thank you for calling hello Bob hi first time long thanks um what I've noticed is what trump advance are doing is the perfect advertisement for how they see America look at Springfield and how they're taking advantage of that town they targeted it still targeting it they will target towns cities and individuals that don't agree with them and this is the type of America not delightful to be in the happiness that we want and know and um I just think there are perfect advertisements for themselves we have a hard time we heard what you said and I've got to let you go only because the connection is bad but we appreciate your point of view Bob and thank you for sharing it you know as long as before I go to the break as long as Bob brought up Ohio did you mention the Ohio sheriff no I did not I hope you will yeah this was a really weird story this sheriff in Ohio who I guess he's however they make up the towns and counties there he's a big law enforcement guy clearly he's going around instructing residents to keep a list of homes displaying campaign signs that support Harris and Tim Wals and he says that's because he wants to know who had these signs up in case Kara in case Harris wins and then they can blame any more undocumented immigrants coming there on Harris by the way most of the people in at least in Springfield are documented but but people there are kind of freaking out because some of them do have Harris signs up and they're wondering are they going to face some kind of backlash and we're going to talk later about this kind of thing going on flower with Ron DeSantis running around asking with law enforcement election police doors asking if they sign petitions to get an abortion matter on the ballot and the people you know may have signed it in the supermarket five months ago and all of a sudden somebody from the law enforcement the cops or the sheriff office comes up with 10 pages on your license your registration everything about you asked if you signed a petition this is you know I mean when we talk about fascism I think that's that those are kinds of fascist things you know Mussolini he was one of the most famous fascists I guess and things didn't go very well for him or for Italy and well you know a lot of people think that was remember Trump in the covid moment when he had covid and stands up on the balcony at the White House that he was attempting to mimic the man you were just speaking about so you're just tuning in we're not talking about violence that may occur should Trump lose all our January 6th post November 5th we're talking about violence in the 48 days leading up to the election and the most important point I think for this discussion for people listening here is it's not somewhere else we saw a shot in in Newton we saw the libertarians saying it'd be an American hero in New Hampshire the libertarian party if you were to assassinate Kamala Harris a suspicious envelope delivered to the Secretary of State so it didn't get there but it was stopped right outside one Ashbert in place it's happening here too we want to know what your reaction to it is because this is not something at least inspired by some leaders in quotes in this country rather than a bottom-up kind of thing Bernadette you're on the road you're on Boston Public Radio thank you much for calling hi hi I just wanted to thank you for having the conversation because it seems to me that Trump uses the word fascist and as much as he does because he's neutralizing it he's rendering it's very smart and and that's the fascist thing to do right so every time he he does this he takes what is the inside about him legitimately and then he should start to bring it around and it may not matter anymore Bernadette you also have a horrible connection but that was a fabulous point and I don't mean to keep pitching this but I am so such a fan of the work of Michael Kirk as his Marjorie in his film which comes out next week but we'll talk about with Michael tomorrow from frontline he talks about where this all came from where in Trump's history this notion that when you're accused of something legitimately the best way to undo the accusation against you is to accuse your opponent of the exact same thing that they haven't done but you have and so make sure you listen Bernadette to the show I mean it's it's unbelievable the debate between him and Clinton back in 2016 you're a puppet you're a puppet you're a puppet it was so embarrassing that was almost as bad as the golf game discussion between Biden and Trump that was pretty bad well I mean but the worst example in this campaign is when the Democrats have legitimately in my opinion accused Trump is a threat to democracy which I think is hard to respond to by that from a text by a text or well let me get it out of my mouth and then you can read the criticism it is and then Trump immediately says Joe Biden's the greatest threat to democracy and now it's Kamala Harris and unfortunately for Trump there's no evidence to that well the texture says you are falsely claiming he would end democracies do you want to defend yourself Jim I mean I don't know if that's a joke it's a joke I'll be a dictator just on day one and you may have missed this because maybe you slept through it he attempted to overthrow the governor of the United States other than that I don't think he's the threat to democracy member January 6 or were you out of the country at that time well it's also the idea it's also the idea of firing all these civil servants and loading them with people who are loyalists to you so they make sure everything you want to get done gets done he's also talking about taking over the Fed we you know can you imagine if Donald Trump decides what the interest rates are going to be if he wins I mean talk about inflation now you ain't seen nothing yet but he's talking about that because he's he's upset that your own power might lower the interest rates any day now can we what we're gonna lower him at two o'clock today yeah not any day now I thought it isn't today two o'clock today question is is it a 1.25 is a 0.5 without giving you any can we spend 30 seconds on something I know you hate doing what but I can't get over is this is that person for real falsely claiming that he's a threat he attempted to overthrow the duly elected government of the United States leading up to January 6th he's not a threat to democracy I guess well I guess this person thinks he's not I mean we just talked yesterday about how people believe what Donald Trump says millions of people believe him Pete in New Hampshire texted what's he saying you're calling Republicans frauds for flip-flopping actually that's not I didn't say that well I know but that's what this texture is saying yet you fail to mention Kamala Harris is called Biden a sex assaulting rapist well Pete in New Hampshire I mean called she didn't call she didn't call Biden a second Trump he means Trump oh he is well he is a sex assaulting rapist that's one of the reasons you said it civil he had been civilly found guilty of rape in the Jean Carole case and defaming Jean Carole continues to defame her anyway even though he's had to pay that was $85 million for her and I think he's up to how many women have accused him of sexual I think two dozen two dozen so yeah he is he's also a felon and he's a tax cheat he's a lot of other things Mike and I'm sorry Mike and Rosalind Dale your next thank you for calling welcome here oh you're welcome so very very interesting topic but it just kind of in I agree with you Jim and Marjorie but that texture that you're you have a high time believe him what he's saying Jim this is a big part of the country out there you know it's part of the 40 45% but it's still voting for police 40 that believe that I saw him Facebook just yesterday so one I know who's very active with the local count of church and he's a he's a big truckster and he is you know with his latest alleged accusations that he's playing with democrats but he has language and they won't stop until trumpets dead and uh he quotes Kyle Harris who's involved in the fight said and it's you know it's all the language that democrats use it's got to get Trump killed and the democrats are evil and uh they seem to forget about January 6th are they looking at it from a different led no but yeah by the way you were totally right and I obviously if you don't if you believe as you're suggesting correctly that a large swath of MAGA people believe the election was stolen then that's true you don't believe Trump is an insurrectionist he was just trying to ensure that the proper outcome happened of course through violence the problem is and I'm not quarreling with you Mike I'm crawling with those people the election was not stolen as evidenced by 60 plus election decisions and his own attorney general and the vast majority of the non lunatic people who work for him but Mike you're totally right and thank you for adding that to the uh discussion well large numbers of people believe trump when he says that in the United States America it's fine to uh assassinate newborn babies on the delivery table I mean people believe this stuff it's kind of it's and obviously last people believe the cats and dogs thing even though it has been debunked over and over again can I just want to say one last thing to that uh text there with whom I had a problem I'll make you a deal next time we discuss this we will take your call first if you call and identify yourself if you promise that you will go back and watch the testimony of uh Shay Moss and Ruby Freeman in front of uh the January 6th committee about what happened to their lives because of the total made up crap from Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump watch that tell me you did it and next time we discuss the election I promise we'll give you all the time you want on me meanwhile meanwhile if you have HBO watch stop the steal yeah really show us how people get swept up into the sanity and they had these videos of the election workers you know in Georgia and they were among the election workers in Georgia's moving these suitcases around in Rudy Giuliani saying look at them look at them they're putting in balance there they're cheating the Dominion voting machines going online so I can see where if you have the former you know mayor of America Rudy Giuliani and all these Trump people telling you again that the moon is purple then sometimes or a lot of times apparently you begin to believe that the moon is purple by the way next Tuesday Marie Saint Fleur former state rep who I believe is the first Haitian American member of the state legislature in Massachusetts will join us to talk about what this uh totally made up dangerous rhetoric out of Trump and Vance around Springfield Ohio means to her uh community here yeah and and the problem is that the Republicans could have done something about this you know by standing up for the truth and um they have just sucked up hook line and sinker with a with a couple of rear and very courageous exceptions anyway um we are moving on now we're gonna up next we're gonna be talking to GBH's art senator Jared Bowen the Boston Film Festival has got a great lineup and we're also talking about this this incredible career of an orphan from Sierra Leone who rose to the heights of the dancing world and died to young you're listening to Boston Public Radio 89 7 GBH live in the Boston Public Library and streaming online at youtube.com/GBHNews Welcome back to Boston Public Radio Jim Brody and Marjorie and live at the library streaming youtube.com/GBHU is now joined at the desk by Jared Bowen, Jared is GBH's executive arts editor host of the culture show which here is right up to us on 89 7 at 2 hello Jared Bowen great to be with you both and you hello Jared Bowen so let's start with the Boston Film Festival um where do we go how do we see it and where are the highlights well uh one of the best things to do is to go to the Boston Film Festival dot org website because there are different screenings happening across the city different locations all the way up to rock court actually at the Shaolin Lou uh performing arts center love that and the great thing about the Boston Film Festival is that it's 40 years old this year and Robin Dawson who's been its longtime director uh formerly of the film office here in Massachusetts a longtime festival goer and she began to notice as she was attending festivals years ago just the impact you could have when not only you showed these films and often they're world premieres but what happens when you can bring the actors here and you can bring the director and you can have a Q&A and you can have a conversation about it and this is what part of the film festival circuit is all about as I mentioned sometimes they're world premieres sometimes New England premieres but often it's your first chance to see films and you'll see everything from a comedic depiction of the Isabel Stuart Gardner Museum theft to democracy noir which is looking looking at Victor Orbon through three people who have tried to penetrate what he's doing in Hungary right now uh to get a sense of how things have shifted in that very conservative environment and his government. By the way speaking of uh that uh thing which I'm gonna watch tonight the uh the uh comedic not totally true story about the lead up to the Gardner Heist Eric Anderson yeah who's the director who's written a lot of big films he's gonna be on the Mars the first time director with us as well as Jimmy Tingle whose film is not at the Boston Film Festival but his first film about his run for Lieutenant Governor so what's the website again? So it's Boston Film Festival dot org it all starts September 19th it goes through the 23rd. Are there winners like in the European things or are these are just I don't mean just but are film shown or are there that's a good question I don't to my knowledge there aren't awards like the audience award and things of that nature I'm not sure that we do that here. You know what sounds I mean very soothing I mean I know the piping plovers have had their crises but the piping plovers of Moonlight Bay talks about these two birds and their and their lives I'm hoping that that's not horrible. That is really a great celebration of the Boston Film Festival. You know you're looking for things I mean I I I told us to Jim you know I had COVID last week you're looking for things make you feel better while you're watching COVID so I watched that trashy Nicole Kidman lives. Oh I loved that. Yes it's about uh the perfect couple yes shot and chat and and talk and stuff and it was um written by Hilberbrand but it's her uh yeah we talked about her a few years ago I saw his great books about Nantucket but it was it was fun it was tragic at your minds off thing so I was thinking when I saw the piping plovers because they're so cute that maybe it would be up we have them on next week by the way do you know that the piping plovers are on here they're on Tuesday nothing's scampering across there are little deaths here by the way I don't even have COVID that's all I want to see right now it's just beautiful pretty happy trashy but although I even I didn't even think it was that trashy although it's kind of fun I thought the acting was terrific especially especially when Leave Shriver gets really drunk at the book launch in Nicole Kidman and falls off the stage by the way the trailer which is all I've seen so far there's any day now the thing we're gonna talk about though it looks fabulous by the way and there's been a lot done on the heist but this is a sort of a semi-fictional account of the buildup right wouldn't it be funny if that was the one thing exactly I'm gonna get the paintings returned okay so Bruno Mars it did a song in 2012 when I was your man in 2023 Miley Cyrus I think won her first gram is that right for flowers that was 11 years later Mars people are saying she stole the song or at least all part of it here's first Bruno Mars singing his deal and then this Miley Cyrus here it is I should have bought your flowers and held your hand should I give you all my hours with the hand that she is I can borrow some flowers run my name and say and I'm talking myself for hours I'd say guilty what would you say I mean that's well I wouldn't hear it Marjorie so I was gonna ask you did exactly what I want to do what do you think Marjorie I couldn't tell I think when I listened to it this morning I thought guilty and then when I just heard it again I thought not guilty I can't tell so this is what's really interesting and this is what makes these cases really really difficult so yeah as Jim explained the back story is that not even Bruno Mars actually because there are other people behind him now who apparently own the rights to this looked at this and they thought that Miley Cyrus and her writing team copied a whole bunch of things like pitch sequence chorus lyrics shadows of the lyrics their chord progression and so they have sued Cyrus and her co-writers not to mention target Amazon Walmart Sony the distributors of this and we've seen this happen a lot over the last few years the last big case but it's Ed Sheeran yes Marvin Gaye estate soon what happened in that case he won he won yeah but who won she had she're in one but the Marvin Gaye estate also had sued Robin thick and Pharrell Williams a few years ago for the song blurred line and they lost to that one because I think who lost that one the current people not Marvin Gaye won well he didn't win as a state one yeah yeah yeah no Pharrell Williams and Robin thick lost that one right because this becomes very complicated because in a sense you're asking juries to decide something that's quite complicated and that's listening to music and what do you hear we just heard at least two variations here at this desk yeah about this and often these get thrown out of court or there's a settlement or their challenge later one of these cases at one point went up to the Supreme Court I can't remember which case specifically because this does pop up often but it's happening again now do you ever I mean every time he's I think Miley Cyrus is wildly talented as is Bruno Mars whenever you look at her do you say to yourself I can't believe this is Hannah Montana and this is I mean she's really like a really you know I don't know if you've ever she does a Dylan cover which is not her typical kind of thing that is as good a cover of a Bob Dylan song don't ask me what the name of the song is I can't remember is anything I've ever heard she just really can you look that up Jamie and said it's there in a me please like I'm a fool Jamie's looking at me like I'm a dope and I figure maybe I am but oh well thank you Aiden it's gone out you're gonna make me want someone you go okay there there you go well she also seems to be a really good person I mean not that that counts she is I was just talking to her friend recently who saw her in Los Angeles because she had this album out and she wasn't able to do as much touring as she wanted so she was just doing these little small sets for family and friends and then anybody who else happened I think was at the Chateau mama in Los Angeles anybody who happened to be there she was welcoming them in yeah she's pretty cool it's funny because when when I got my wrapped by Spotify at the end of the year this was the song I had listened to most because I think it's such a fun song and it never even occurred to me as much as I've heard the Bruno Mars song that they could be similar and by the way the thing that one of the best things to say about her beyond her incredible talent and apparently decent person is her loser of a father has allegedly disowned her which I think is a badge of honor as far as I'm concerned but we love her godmother who's her godmother Dolly Parton is that true yeah I didn't know that Parton is a wonderful person she is very interview with her she's amazing yeah she doesn't love Dolly everybody loves Dolly yeah no I was one of the you never see your husband she keeps them under wraps Carl Carl Dean yeah where's he who knows exactly no no no but they've been married forever right and they're still together they've been married forever they're still together they're still married she talks about him every now and again yeah probably just running things at Dollywood what good thing did she give a million dollars through the last year or the year before that was really the vaccine oh was the vaccine development thing right she does the books where she distributes her she's incredible she is really incredible yeah the children's books so I was transfixed by the story in the Globe in the New York Times about um Kayla DePrince this young woman who was raised in an orphanage in Sierra Leone her father was murdered in the mines her mother died of malnutrition her uncle dumps her in an orphanage where she was given a number number 27 and goes on uh and she's a a black young woman to become a huge dancer principal dancer the theater of Harlem she's in she goes and becomes a big star in Amsterdam the ballet there the nutcracker leading roles in in um George Ballantine's Tarrantella first of all I've never heard of a kid coming out of an orphanage in in Sierra Leone or almost anybody else and also she's black and there you don't see that many black dancers so how did this happen for this young woman just yeah we're talking about this because she died this week at age 29 and she had been at Boston ballet I never met her saw her dance but I've read a lot about her her story has been out there so I don't know the circumstances of her death but she has taught she had talked about her story for a while in interviews and in a documentary and in her own book taking flight which documents that brutal childhood that she had and then there was this couple from America who came and they adopted her because in this orphanage had been taken over by a guerrilla group it was just horrible by the way you said she had the number 27 that was her ranking she was at the bottom of the orphanage she was given a different name and so was number 26 I think who was right alongside her was given the same name and both of them were adopted by this couple she came out of that as you say she went to dance theater of Harlem and then the Dutch National Ballet then came here to Boston I remember trying to interview her once for Open Studio and at that point as she has had also discussed publicly she didn't want to talk about her story anymore because it seems like it was re-traumatizing to her and then suddenly we learned this week that she dies at age 29 and the really heartbreaking part is her mother the woman who adopted her adopted yeah died the next day and the family saving a saving grace is that the mother hadn't known the mother who had been ill with her problem hadn't known that her daughter had died you know one little piece to this do you read I know it was in the New York Times of the Globe maybe it was both about her and her sister in the orphanage sort of plotting out ballets and dances and then all of a sudden she found that dance magazine that's right and she looked at Maya the elegance of the dancers but when I think maybe I'm wrong about the ballet world maybe it's changed but I don't think of that many black premier ballerinas it's usually white women a lot of times not American either no it's changing and she was often mentioned alongside Misty Copeland who is one of the most famous black ballerated balorina dancers that we know today she's very famous she has lots of arrangements with different companies she's written a book because often black ballerinas were told they couldn't dance because of their body shape Misty Copeland very talked very openly I spoke to her once about this for an interview how she the horrible eating regimens that she went through because she thought thought she had to lose so much weight because she didn't have the body style that was favored aka what mainly white dancers were having but hopefully we're moving beyond that in this world there's also a great book that was recently written at the swans of Harlem they talked about even before Misty Copeland there were a whole trio or is Jameson is that no it wasn't Judith Jameson Karen Valby as the author but she documents about five different dancers who preceded Misty Copeland by decades and finally trots their stories out and shares them with the world we're talking to Jared Bones so Jared you know Marjorie well enough to know that there's nothing she likes quite as much as a love story between great artists. Oh yeah this is a great story you had Sebastian Smee on who beyond being one of the great writers of all time is so smart it is like painful kind of thing uh tell us about his book and who he writes about yeah this is a great book it's called Paris and ruins love war and the birth of Impressionism this is really a fascinating story that I didn't know most of it most of what it was so the significance here is that this is a hundred and fiftieth anniversary of Impressionism Monet later Van Gogh one war just the very colorful quick brush strokes moving away from realism kind of paintings that were once super contemporary art and quite derided that they were just impressions of life that was actually a duress of term when it was first used but this came after two horrific wars that had happened in France one in which the Germans had invaded France they dealt with that and then there was a civil war in France in 1870 to 1871 what Victor Hugo would later call the terrible year and this is when you had the French fighting each other you had the French blowing up their own bridges and buildings this was being covered around the world America was looking at this after we had come through our own civil war and so you find he documents a number of artists like Manet Burt Morisot and Burt Morisot and Manet had quite the quite the affection we don't know how far they took it yes i know they were all intrigued by that yeah it was very electric and you can see this Sebastian Smee argues in the way they they painted and with the stories they were telling about each other in the way they painted but also Renoir Monet of course in Pizarro and Deger Deger was a huge figure this during this entire war it was so traumatic it was so horrific that they couldn't they didn't really paint they didn't actively work a lot of them were very politically involved and then after the war they broke away completely from what was before to move into what became again Impressionism but it was also this recognition that life is very impermanent life is very fleeting we have seen the worst of it so let's just capture it in all its beauty now so let me embarrass myself and say i didn't know there were prominent women Impressionists i didn't mean on the ground i meant who we knew about was she it basically so there were a number of salons for the Impressionists she was the only woman in all but one of the salons the only one she wasn't in was the year that she had a child uh but you know what i loved about this too as i seen that picture the cradle a million times and there's a young mother overlooking her newborn in the cradle looking exhausted and i i remember when i first um learned about mary casa who did all those pictures of domestic life mothers with their children babies on their laps and stuff and i thought this was so wonderful because that was not really when you see these occasional things of the woman with the the vermeer things that you know the the domestic i don't know if you call it woman was that woman a housekeeper the woman that was standing there milk right the milk made anyway and and this woman seemed to be doing that too a lot of beautiful domestic art which i which i loved and it's a wonderful present to get for new mothers that a book of mary casa's photographs because they're mostly her with her not necessarily her but models with their newborns and their little kids and there were other women but whose history has not remembered so that's why we often talk about casa or burt marisso but they had to do this with their own conviction because they had been told that while you have other things to do in life aka find a husband have a family and if you haven't done those things yet which she hadn't until later why aren't you doing them but she had to find the conviction to go out in paint and then be part of this circle and and they really respected her of course speaking of having a husband by the way one of our colleagues looked up whatever happened to carl dean the husband there's a beautiful photograph of them walking into the renewal of their wedding vows in 2016 oh there you go it's actually a beautiful little thing well i remember the pictures of them when they were first married he was quite a handsome guy and she was a beautiful woman so they go there was a little rounder in 2016 she's a little rounder okay by the way by the way she was 30 i think i read in spassen she made a story before she did she she was older in those days to even you know start your family but she was older yeah it all came late again because she was really focused on her art and uh but she was insecure about life because of where she was at that stage the other thing i'll say about spassen's feet what i found really interesting is there were there were moments i had to put this book down and walk away because it's really really tough his depictions of these war scenes and again we're talking about french fighting the french that in the civil war were so evocative and they were so vivid it was really tough to process everybody should read it because it's compelling reading but it occurred to me that i read a lot of history books too but i think he has a different style of writing because he's an art writer so he's observing history the same way he might paintings well since you said that we weren't gonna play it because we're short on time but when you had him on your show he's now at the washington post i assume people know he's talking to jarred about the ruins of paris and the frank opression war that led to the impressionist movement here's me and jarred the population were reduced to eating pigeons and rats and the zoo animals that was a horrific passage in your life by the way yeah i mean it really got bad it got really dark it was it was one of the most brutal winters in living memory all the trees were cut down for five you know you can almost imagine that the place was like a sort of enormous barracks and army barracks because a lot of the male population had joined the national guard to try to defend the sea he speaks pretty well too not to mention the incredible right we only have a couple of minutes let's do the play romeon juliet is closing earlier than laughs in spanish so we can do this spanish left and spanish next week romeon juliet yeah this is a great production at the american repertory theater directed by diane polis is also their artistic director and what i really found about was really struck by about this is is going into it i knew she also writes about this in the program that diane polis wanted to focus on not the hate that we usually find in this story because we know the families are feuding and this is what makes these lovers so star crossed because they have to be at all ends to find their love because they're doing it under the cloak of darkness because of their families she wanted to just focus on the lovers love and that comes through and her casting here they're played by amelia suarez is juliet and rudy pank out from the outer banks big television star is playing romeo and on a very bare stage this really comes alive and is very electric she has partnered again diane polis has with city larry b charcawi who is a choreographer with whom she'd worked on jagged little pill oh so he brings this really propulsive movement to the stage and so you feel this love manifested you see the other characters coming into this speaking of other characters she's also cast terence man a big broadway legend he's been in a number of shows including her pippin but also laid his before that as fryer lorence the mechanic who's trying to make sure that this love stays intact it's a really terrific production what do you mean propulsive movement what does that mean because when the characters are feeling something your their their bodies almost lift up and they move forward that there's just a physical manifestation of what they're feeling and it just brings everything together a lot of chemistry it's also if there's a lot of sexies going on there october six that's right it's when it's there till right october six yeah some fun dance parties in it too if you've seen it no but speaking of Nicole kibbin i guess you've got a pretty sexy one coming up well let's not do that you okay we talked about that your covid brain is setting and we talked about that i know that the new one though the new one that got a standing ovation at the car not the this is not baby girl baby we talked about that and then i chimed in and said the daniel craig is he's all right i see one yeah oh god that's really scary yeah but that was like a week ago that was a long time ago why would you remember two weeks ago exactly two weeks ago that's right that's it do i have covid brain now i don't know things can't get better it's fine it doesn't i didn't mean to call you outside sorry it's could be good if a long slow slide okay uh we speak with jad bone gbation second of our senator host of the culture show which here is daily on 89 seven at two p.m. and on friday's it's right here oh we didn't ask him what he's doing today yeah what are you doing real quickly 10 seconds the irish hip hop group route group kneecap is back we talked them in march now that they're big hollering stars we're talking to them again because they're likely going to get an oscar nomination for their film kneecap oh fantastic that's good get all right up next after the new news juliet kime is going to talk about these uh exploding pagers uh in killing and injuring and many people in lebanon you're listening to boston public radio 89 7 gph broadcasting live from the boston public library and streaming at youtube.com slash gph news he's jim proudie i am marcher yeegan welcome to our number two of boston public radio 89 7 gph we are broadcasting live from the boston public library streaming at youtube.com slash gph news and about a half hour gonna be joined by three people who are intimately involved in what we've come to call the bussing crisis in boston on the 50th anniversary of bussing we're gonna talk about that with people who were there on the ground hello again jim hello again that by the way is michael kurry and former mayor janey who both of whom were busses little kids and Ted landbark who obviously was in a photograph that defines that time probably as well and as sadly and is painfully as virtually anything uh we're joined now by national security expert juliet kime juliet is the former citizen secretary of homeland security under president obama the faculty chair of the homeland security program at harvard's county school of government and a contributing writer for one of the best publications on the planet the Atlantic juliet it's great to see you great to see you hey there so great to be back and then a while where were you where were you i was a lot of places i've shown you where i was i was a lot of consulting contracts oh yes family and everything and it was just it was august in september so it's been okay good to see a couple it's good to see it's good to be here it's good to be back so tell us about these exploding creatures oh my gosh in levenon apparently the associated press is reporting they've been more explosions today yeah from walkie talkies so um here's what we know and then based on my expertise i'll explain a little bit of what we what what might have happened is of course simultaneously members of hesbola uh received some sort of communication through their beepers uh that that that then led to an explosion killing seven but also bystanders as we know so uh how could this happen so homos moves to uh beepers as most organizations that want to keep out of hesbola excuse me hesbola keep out of public telecom systems right they wanted to because israel had infiltrated their communication system maybe six or seven years ago so they moved to a beeper system essentially uh to communicate that beeper system is not as sophisticated and beepers do not have what our iphones have our iphones have if your lithium battery starts to get too high you know anyone who's taking it to the beach knows it turns off on its own that doesn't happen as i just show everyone my my cell phone that doesn't happen uh with beepers so when something got into somehow where it got in uh heats up the battery uh and then some sort of trigger has come through that notification based on my uh expertise in this space i believe now that somehow israel got into the supply chain of the devices and infiltrated putting something in them some sort of hardware that would have them explode simultaneously be very hard to do through remote or software because the batteries would get uh too hot it would get hot at different times i talked to a bunch of people i know in lebanon in law enforcement and elsewhere that's the running theory there in terms of how they could have done this so this means that two things for Hezbollah one is their communication systems is is down they don't know what's going on they don't know who's in and they are and number two is they have been infiltrated at the at the supply chain level and that is you know that means that means trust no one so i don't know what the response is going to be uh but this is a big deal so as of this morning israel was not formally claiming credit all the experts say nobody else could have done it this is my this is my yes face what's the i have no uh expertise unlike you in this area so what's the strategy yeah so the two days before netnya who who you know one could argue wants a perpetual war uh for um for political purposes and obviously rightfully should be criticized for not getting uh deals done uh as he should what is going to continue the war front so two days before this happened netnya who basically signals that he wants israel is to get back into northern uh israel where they have left because of of the attacks by Hezbollah from lebanon uh and uh sort of you know wanting to continue it so what's his strategy i mean one is of course you keep everyone fixated on the potential that netnya who or something he does will start a regional war and therefore you he gets what he wants i mean in other words he then becomes a focus how does he want to negotiate like weaponry yeah everything right that he that you got to keep netnya who that a madman was willing to start a regional war that's that's one theory the theory which madman the Hezbollah people are netnya who netnya who okay this is this is not going to get the hostages out let's just put it that way this is you think amasa's going to look at this and go we're more scared no they're going to look at someone who who is is willing to go to the next front very aggressively uh the iranians have been relatively quiet they're mad because i mean and i'm not defending anyone the iranians have now a lot to explain why their diplomats were on the same communication system as hamasa uh you know they're like oh my god our diplomat has why do i keep doing that well whatever it is we know it's bad commentary Hezbollah excuse me um and so the iranians are complaining because their ambassador to lebanon was impacted by this was injured by these detonations and uh but that's just proof that the iranians are sort of in a direct connection with Hezbollah um and so uh that's how it unfolds i don't know what happens in day two three or four the israelis i mean clearly did it i don't i we don't have to be shy about it no one else has the desire or capacity to plan something like this it is epic though i'm never i'm never you know there are people in lebanon who i was talking to who think it's possible that the israelis may have created a communications front company that somehow got in with gosh low bidder yeah like a low bidder type thing and the whole thing was an israeli front you have family in lebanon yes still yeah and this is i mean i mean between the explosion and you know i mean it's just it's so horrible um and you know i'm sorry yeah i just want to say one thing about you know yeah that yes this is a successful counterterrorism campaign um there is a another country right and lebanon is that country where this is getting played out on and so to remember you know lebanon is now stressed to the point of critical in terms of its medical capacity a thousand people i think saw it some sort of care they are now uh low on blood so i mean this does impact civilians not in the same way that it impacts palestinians in gaza but as someone who knows lots of people in lebanon it's not like this it's like oh it was a targeted attack like they go after the head guy this is impacting all of lebanon plus the fear of what's about to happen next you know you mentioned the palestinians at gaza um we have talked a lot about anti-Semitism here we've all talked about trying to get the hostages back and the in the crisis and the tragedy when the six hostages were we're found dead but we've been talking about people in palestin being on the edge of starvation for months now um do we know or what are they are they getting any aid i think it's a how do you define starvation so there's deprivations of food uh and and other you know needed commodities and you know what is it now it's it's how many million three or four million have been displaced um and so i don't know what the trigger is to say starvation i do know that our attempts to alleviate it are now completely shelved that port that uh president biden announced in the state of union i guess a year yeah uh this year out in the water out in the water that the military is going to set up uh did not work yeah period of both both because the water was a problem but also the distribution out couldn't be secured in the way that the military would need their distribution system to be secured and so that is one element that's that's loud well there's also something we learned that we shouldn't have had to learn is people who have expertise in this area public health people the great hosey ondris have talked about even if adequate food and supplies were provided today when little kids go without adequate nutrition for months and months their whole lives are negatively affected even if they survive you know you mentioned that we mentioned both you mentioned the hostages i have to say whatever we've done in the last six months two of the most moving moments were when we had relatives of yardin raman gott who was 57 days in captivity or brother and a cousin were here she escaped and then uh carmel gott who was executed recently and her husband was here right before that when they were he was the one remember marjorie was invited by nettonya to fly over from israel on netnya who's playing and he was so outraged that nettonya who was not doing enough to get the hostages home again uh uh carmel gott had not been executed yet he refused to fly netnya whose plane nothing is proceeding at all in these potentials and i would guess that that the attacks on hasbellar are not are not they're not going to expedite that well isn't isn't uh you know how at this point waiting to see if trump wins it's not what he's doing but the flip side is you would argue you've asked a million times marjorie and i know enough about why is biden not exerting at least more public pressure on him i would argue that this is beyond the humanitarian issue which i'm sure as a good person matters a lot to biden it also matters a lot in electoral politics that this thing get resolved uh before uh november yeah i hate to be crass about it but it will potentially have an impact so one would assume if the pressure was going to be elevated by biden whether it's public or private the next what do we have 48 days left the next month would be the time we did it but i just don't see why there's any incentive this juncture for netnya who to do any there is it there is it i mean and i i think the proof is yesterday with with the uh uh campaign in lebanon i he he there is no pressure and why once it gets resolved these rallies from all the polling i've seen are going to turn on him uh and are just waiting for that i don't know if they'll i mean they've already seemed to have lost patience we've seen hundreds of thousands out in the street i mean they have more political discourse about what's going on there than we often do that one day demonstration we did the math the same percentage of the israeli population that was on the streets that day about a month ago would equal 35 million people in the streets in the united states america was the 10th of the population of the israel that decided to do this it is spontaneous so can we just uh continue with horrible stories for a minute here is here's jadey vance speaking monday and georgia giving his first public remarks since the latest assassination attempt on uh down trump but you know the big difference between conservatives and liberals is that we have no one has tried to kill kamala harris in the last couple of months and two people now have tried to kill donald trump in the last couple of months i'd say that's pretty strong evidence that the left needs to talk toned down the rhetoric and needs to cut this crap out somebody's going to get hurt by it yeah somebody's going to get hurt by it when you say that no one has tried to kill kamala harris add we've discussed that nozium the you'll be an american hero if you assassinate uh harris from the new hampshire libertarian party to elan musk doing almost the exact same thing that uh vance did we discuss with you a lot after january six your thesis which worked out as you said for years that the more the justice department goes after individuals involved many of whom are just real people who got swept up in this lose their jobs lose their but their partner lose their income lose their whatever it's going to trick all that which it did but it seems to me the issue now is not what happens if trump were to lose post november fifth which i assume would be violence part two but what happens in the next 48 days we talked about newton the the demonstration the pro-israel demonstration with a shooter a the libertarian party packets of substances undiagnosed or whatever the word is to the secretary of states office in massachusetts and other and barely a blip of a story that's a wonderful point i i i that story sort of like kara's like what's like a whole bunch of well since he said that when we read this morning to make that point mark and i read the sixteen secretaries of state or election divisions got this we didn't even know that master was one of them was one of them and just like exactly that they were so how prepared we for the next 48 days i i mean i i think i think we have uh i think we are aware of the risk i think many in law enforcement um find it uncomfortable to be aware of that risk in other words just feels like that's just like messy politics uh and uh and it will get worse and i think you know jadie vance has a nice little narrative that they're fine and we're not um uh the the the the data is clear that the domestic violent rhetoric threats end end execution of those of those threats uh started ticking up big time in 2016 and that's because of this rhetoric and then it's only gotten only that's mostly for the right it's mostly from the right yeah the the right wing terrorism and let me just be clear about the the trump assassination temps this is outrageous and i have condemned i condemned political violence i condemn the violence part i don't give a damn if they're darn if they are right wing or left wing but the idea that these guys are categorically left wing like that's a nice little narrative for for jadie vance it is just not true and so if you want to be honest about what's going on it is that there's a radicalization going the guy in butler is like you know that's in this i call that in the assassination of convenience he's just looking about who's close by don't know what he was looking at by where Biden's schedule was here's like a trouble trump is down the street i'll do this this guy tulsi gabard uh you could like some fixation on ukraine a little bit of hero desire you know to be viewed as a hero um and and and we still don't know i mean the charges have been pretty basic so far as clearly wanted to harm trump but i don't i can't have a narrative about him yet and i think that's what that's what most people are in in my space are talking and and and monitoring which is it's not this left right thing anymore it is it is just the violence and then someone grabs on to a narrative that they like look i mean you want to talk about violence in spring field ohio the schools are closed for two or three days they have to cancel some art form thing or art conference that thing that they have or um and the hospitals and walk down yeah i mean so this is happening everywhere all the time you know what i thought was an interesting little piece it's not it was about the golfing and former president yes yes the washington posted and talking about how the secret service has been i've been trying for ages to get trump not to golf on his courses that are really close to public roads and down the cape where i spent a lot of time in the summer a million years ago when jfk was the president they had they built a big fence that's still standing so they must have built it in nineteen fifty nine and sixty or something across the road so you couldn't see from the public road the golf course the fence is still there and you'd have to go down some very narrow streets and i used to block off all the traffic there i remember when i was a little little girl but um they talked about how these different presidents like when reagan uh some guy came barreling through the gates of a nust uh guster national reagan was playing the sixteenth poll and after that he only played it this secluded silence state in ronchamara California and habaraka obama only played up with the military bases yeah i guess he played a couple of times i think that was yeah a couple of times when he was president but after when he wasn't wasn't present because of fears yeah but being able to talk as a secret service and we have learned as that article knows that the secret service has been telling trump we can't secure this in a way that now look there there was some gap going on because that guy was hanging out there for twelve hours with the car but um you know when when you when you have um uh the thread environment around trump that they have and he spontaneously this was not i my understanding from the report he doesn't know it that they didn't know it he then decides to go they know the facility they now have lots of people around him he was never there was never you know line of sight or whatever they're saying there is never a um a threat then although if it had lasted longer there might have been a a threat later and um uh and uh they're just trying to sort of do security whack-a-mole right so he had look a protectee has an obligation also to accept the advice no one's blaming the victim here but we do know from lots and lots of reporting now that uh they he is aware of the vulnerability of his golf courses he's he's not a private citizen and he sort of acts like it or he's not just a former president right he's somewhere in between and he's like he's a candidate like no other because of the public aspect of what he likes he he'd like i mean let's just be he likes to be watched he likes to be out but he's in tight can i tell you that i i i'm with you on the golf course thing but see a john king was with us yesterday from cnn and he said one of the pieces of advice that the trump people have gotten from the secret services don't have outdoor rallies yeah well trump decides that i want to do an outdoor rally too because that's the best thing for my county yeah he's got to be protected he's got to be golf is a whole different deal as far as i'm concerned and can we end with this remember the pressure of him on the golf course that he hated because it looked to me it looked pretty bad but his rear end looked really big when he was shooting uh the guy somebody photographer with a long lens was able to take a picture of him in the golf course which is not a good sign security wise i was about four years so forty eight days to go uh there's no this is market is like when i criticized the secret service because it's more a resource thing she argues in confidence i don't know enough i don't know enough to know whether you're ready or not but what i do know is they're at risk so same question about real people how prepared are we to protect these two people these four people i think i think three of them we are very prepared because it's not it seems like they have very trump is the one very regimented schedules that are aligned with the campaign look let's just be you know here is as a runner we don't see her running we're not going to see her running like she's that's apparently a form of exercise she likes we're not going to see her running right now i feel clinton used to run to mcdonalds oh i know my favorite is the anyway and trump uh is is too spontaneous given the risk environment but he likes being spontaneous i don't think he's going to change i was going to say my favorite is the mcdonald i get a big mac and a diet coke it's like the opposite yeah i call it the big that's uh i really doubt that i will tell you a a a cheeseburger my kids say i become like a like an animal i love like give me a hamburger cheeseburger any day everybody believes that raise your hand i i know i'm i'm gonna check shake shack is michelle obama's guilty pleasure he said yeah i i that's my guilt yeah but you offset it with a diet coke and then it's zero calories fair enough nice see you Julia thank you thank you sorry about the hamas Hezbollah that is no that's okay thank you so much good to see you up all the time juliet and here i am the co-host anyway we've been speaking with former assistant secretary of home security i i know it's an outrage uh under present barak obama and faculty chair of the home security program and harvitz Kennedy school of government and a contributing writer for the atlantic juliet kind thank you very much up next this month we mark 50 years since the start of what would be remembered as boston's bussing crisis we're going to talk with one of our regular guest michael curry from the NAACP kim jay who was the first woman in the first black woman to be the mayor of the city of boston at 10 landmark you may remember him uh he was the black attorney's three piece suit who was attacked by a teenager from charleston with the american flag and what became a Pulitzer prize-winning photograph of racial unrest in boston you're listening to boston public radio eighty nine seven gb h live from the boston public library and streaming at youtube.com slash gb h news so so so so welcome back to boston public radio marjorie and jim brouty live at the boston public library streaming youtube.com slash gb h news in 1965 the massachusetts legislature passed the racial imbalance act and moved to officially outlaw segregation in the state's public schools nine years later 1974 then us district court judge for massachusetts's judge garrity issued his own ruling to forcibly desegregate boston schools by way of bussing 50 years ago this month 18 000 children particularly those from the city's poorest neighborhoods began being bussed to different corners of the city there was a decision that would spark years of animosity and racial tension in turn shaping and in some cases defining boston's image in the public eye not to mention changing the trajectory of so many children's lives here's a little sound of young black kids who were interviewed that year this is from wbz here with us now to reflector two people who as kids were bussed michael curry former head of the mass NAACP and current ceo of the mass league of community health centers michael's good to see you as always kim janey the city's first black first female mayor she's currently president and ceo of economic mobility pathways mayor janey it's great to have you here today and a man you surely recognize from an incredible incident of violence immortalized in a Pulitzer prize winning image by marjorie's former colleague stanley form in the soiling of old glory he's now a distinguished professor of public policy and urban affairs at northeastern and he's the director of the wonderfully named after a fabulous human being dukakas center for urban and regional policy ted thank you so much for joining us we really appreciate it so michael let's start with you at talking about little kids i think you were seven yes when you would call going past museum of science and taking a right into charles town yeah i do i i you know it's some things are seared in your mind um and i remember the nervousness of my mother um because uh she was sending us off and there were some mothers who decided not to send their kids into school i was in that second wave of uh what i believe was like 25 000 students 18 15 18 000 in that first wave um and our parents were courageous enough um or if not crazy enough um to put us on those buses but there were meetings and and there were um sort of prep sessions on what we would expect in that journey i i remember the fear and i i know it's hard to believe that a seven-year-old can remember fear but we do um i remember having to duck down i remember uh peeking out the window and saying what appeared to be hundreds of people lining the streets as we made that journey over to charles charles town angry at kids um and i'll never forget it so mayor jenny charles town i think was your destination too 11 years old what was your recollection of those times uh very similar to what michael shared um very young my parents kept me home for the first couple of weeks they did not agree with the parity decision they did not want to bust me outside of my neighborhood um they felt as if i was getting a good quality education in rocks berry and like michael i can remember the fear i remember the angry mobs i remember the distorted faces of the people in the mobs i remember the police escorts i remember having to sometimes leave out the back door of school to avoid um some sort of riot uh in the streets very very difficult time for children to experience what do you remember about being told about why specifically why you weren't going to school this first week well my parents didn't agree if i'm not getting a better education by being bus to charles town what was the point and they said that yes they said that and i was obviously not wanted in that school so why subject your child to that kind of violence to that angry mob especially when they weren't going to get a better education you know that's one of the points you've heard over over and over again when you read about the history of busing is that kids were going from bad schools to bad schools black and the black schools were obviously worse but the white schools weren't so great especially in south boston but ten lens mark everybody probably has seen uh the picture of you you're in an off white three-piece suit looking extremely professional 29 years old and all of a sudden a joseph rakes a kid from charles town comes at you what happened well ironically i was on my way to infer affirmative action reading to try to uh open up more jobs construction jobs in the south end in rocksbury to uh people from the neighborhoods and particularly people of color and uh i was uh simply walking across uh city hall plaza um when uh i encountered this uh uh group uh really mob of uh high school kids who turned a corner uh i didn't see them and uh they had just come out of a meeting with uh councilor louise de hicks who had fired them up about race uh and they were on their way to the courthouse uh where judge garrity uh held court uh and they encountered me and i was the first black person they saw and they decided uh a few of them that they wanted to kill me we have so i'm sorry yeah i was going to say uh we talk about presence of mia 29 years old we do have sounds jim started to say when you were speaking to reporters right after the attack and you had a broken nose your face was covered in bandages this happened in 1976 and this is sound recorded by gph for the ten o'clock news here it is safety is not the issue bussing is not the issue the issue involves the participation of citizens of color in all levels of business and government that affect the life of this city and by that i mean participation on equal basis and not just as human rights officers and affirmative action officers and not just the shields to cover white the white power structures and difference towards communities of color the issue of racism must no longer be subordinated in this city or the more things changed headlands mark i believe stanley form and maybe in a joint interview with you talked about the reason he thought something was going to happen that he had to capture was because there were almost all white people all of a sudden this black man you walks on to the scene do you remember what you felt at the time well i was running late for a meeting and so i really wasn't thinking about encountering a crowd of angry young people and i didn't see them coming because of the way city hall plaza structured they were coming from around the corner so i wasn't thinking about that but the moment it happened of course i was in a state of shock because it was one of the last things i would have expected to happen at that moment yeah we just heard your colleagues on both sides were seven and eleven when bussing happened you were a young skillful lawyer what was your reaction to judge gary's decision when it came down i wondered why it was that the focus had been only on boston proper and why the suburbs hadn't been included there were obviously efforts being made to expose young kids of color to different people to whom those kids might aspire to be and the class differences between the white kids in south v or jalston and the black kids in rocksbury were not all that great but the class differences between all the kids in the city and many of the kids in the suburbs were substantial you know michael carrey you mentioned being seven years old going to trosstown we've all encountered you know kid little kids they don't want to go to school because they got a stomach ache or they got some fake thing going on i can't imagine what it was like tell us going back day two day five day twenty yeah i mean one is i remember the tension my mother had because my mother was a she wasn't an activist in the traditional sense but she was an activist right she was conscious enough she went to school committee hearing meetings since i was a child she would show up at the school if there's an incident there was an incident that i often share where at one point um something happened in school that they called my mother so i remember my mother coming up to school to get me and and she tells us there was a racist incident to happen in school so i remember vividly standing out in front of the warren Prescott in charles town where a big hefty white guy was yelling at us calling us the in-word is swearing at us and my mother was standing toe to toe with him that's the Alabama Birmingham and her that she felt like she should go verbally back and forth with him but i remember being by her side and being afraid when i think about that it took to Kim's earlier point about the disparities in the school and some black schools and neighborhoods had quality education i didn't come from one of those i went to the worst schools prior to that as well and the reality is two-thirds of the funding you know we black schools were receiving two-thirds of the funding that even the poor white schools were receiving so the reality is the whole notion was that i was going to charles town to get a better education but yet how can you get a education when you're in fear when there's um racial tension in the school coming from teachers in part um from other students in part who don't want you there um and you're dealing with trauma because the trauma of going through the gauntlet of hate that we had to go through um doesn't make you you know capable of focusing on math and english and reading for the rest of the day so i'm thankful um that i had a strong mother who who was willing to take the bus to charles town at that time when i think about dad she took the bus to charles town to come get me so how did you get an education like that i mean how long did you last so my mother eventually ended up pulling me out because of the attention i had and the experiences i had at the school um so it was a maybe i don't remember how long i was there i ended up being transferred to the jackson man school and brighten and brighten yeah um which was a much more diverse school um but she was deeply disturbed and and i think she probably even thought about her own safety because she knew that if my mother was ready to set it off as we were saying our neighborhood and if she had to come to school to get me there was there was risk for her too you went i'm sorry you're sorry i was going to say mary jenny in your parents um said that the heck with this too is i understand yes i did two years yeah two years at the edwards middle school in charles town fortunately for me my parents uh you know i come from a family of educators uh by this time in fact september 12th 1974 is my father's very first day teaching embossing public schools oh wow um and so for me i did two years at the edwards and fortunately for me my parents kept advocating and they moved me and transferred me to uh mecco so i became a mecco kid as of eighth grade through high through 12th grade which have been created eight years before the clarity decision and it's really important because i think we're talking a lot about the parity decision we're talking a lot about blessing it's important for us all to sit with and center uh the women like michael's mom who had been fighting for decades even centuries prior to this so this is it's 50 years now that we are marking this anniversary but this fight is centuries old in terms of black parents seeking better education for their kids and just when we think about the racial imbalance act and the legislature that teed up garrity's decision to to kem's point she's a master historian of this the advocacy of parents to teed up that legislation and then the advocacy of organizations like civil rights and others the phenomenal leaders that even created that moment we forget about them but they created this conversation about equal education that iconic picture in 1965 of black folks marching down the street around desegregating our schools we got to remember that too you know we should you mentioned in passing but i don't think it should be in passing about an alternative describe your schooling situation mayor janey before your bus to charleston exactly and so prior to me even entering boston public schools at second grade i had attended a black independent school so in the 1960s late 60s early 70s there was this movement in boston like in other places across our country where black families once again was were fighting for a better quality education and so these independent schools were coming up i attended new school for children uh people like julia walker people like rince baton people like um uh jee mcguire all of these folks were on the front lines whether they were part of exodus whether they were part of mecco or the black independent school movement and for me i think that gave me the foundation that i needed to one enter into bps where i excelled until bussing and then mecco because those were all varied experiences but for me i had that firm foundation and in the tradition of freedom schools exactly and anniversary of freedom schools they were freedom schools in boston yeah and and focusing a lot on african-american history and and better teaching but i want to know i totally answered my you mentioned before that you know you were surprised the suburbs weren't involved i can imagine all the parents and well say and book line going to court in two seconds over god he was from wellesley but yes yes but was there a way a better way i heard a lot of theories you know you should have started with kindergarten you shouldn't have done you know that you should mix it differently i mean was there a better way to do this to try to desegregate the schools there were um a great many thoughtful alternatives uh that could have been pursued um boston itself um had gone through decades and decades of enforced segregation in the schools and in most of the city's public services um and so the focus was on boston itself but the region was really involved in all of that and metco which um engaged the suburbs um in taking in inner city kids um had been formed before bussing yeah um so that there was a clear understanding that there was a regional issue around integrating education and uh judge garrity did not look to that um as an appropriate example but instead um place the burden on on the parents in boston uh to try to resolve the matter internally with in boston itself you know uh mayor flinn uh obviously been involved in some of this is uh a younger man who was going to fix it uh mayor menino was going to fix it uh mayor Walsh was going to fix it now it's in within you were there but for a short period of time eight months and then now mayor who hopes to do it so here we are the consensus is 50 years later the schools are as segregated as ever we failed to mention that 18 000 white kids allegedly left within 18 months after garrity's decision for those suburbs or parochial schools or whatever they did uh obviously bussing didn't do what was it it was intended to do starting with you mayor jane what should be done in 2024 to realize the same goals that existed a half century ago but we're never met yeah the issue had always been quality the issue had always been quality and for the years since the garrity decision we spend a lot of time talking about how kids are assigned to school but not what happens in the actual school buildings and so we really do need to shift away from how kids get to school and really talk about the instruction the quality instruction that is needed making sure that we have the right teachers and the right school leaders uh in preparation for this you know i took a look at some of the old documents that were being presented to the school committee by folks like Ruth batson nowhere on here is a call for bussing nowhere on here is a call for bussing what they are asking for are the resources what they were asking for were the resources that are needed um you know a curriculum that reflects the diverse student body of the kids quality teachers involvement in the decisions of hiring superintendents all things that seem pretty basic today uh and some of which we've been able to accomplish but that that piece around quality when there are so many other options now we have so many children who are now going into mecco or and we have 10,000 bussing kids in charter schools and so until we deal with the quality issue we're going to continue to spend our wheels how about you Ted Landsmark obviously Garrett you didn't do what you thought he should have done 50 years ago what should boston be doing now i uh chaired a commission under mare menino that went out into the neighborhood to ask parents what they wanted uh for kids in boston and it was clear um that uh very few people favored bussing as a way of improving the quality of education for their kids and would have preferred to see a circumstance where the kids could go to high quality neighborhood schools um and bussing at this point is a vestige of of a time when the city's demographics were different uh when uh the leadership in the city was different um and i think we're now at a point where we can really take a hard look at what bussing was intended to do what it has actually accomplished and what it is we need going forward which i would suggest involves um getting rid of bussing as it currently stands and reinvesting those funds in quality schools in the neighborhoods well especially when there's uh constant stories in the front page about how the busses can't show up on time i don't understand what's so hard about that how about you michael do you want to add list if i can it's interesting because you know the the student of history that i am so if you're black and american i was saying boston we're used to the throwaway schools yeah the throwaway neighborhoods you know name it the throwaway right so the the neighborhoods we lived in is because people we moved and they moved out um the schools we go in to we entered they left 30,000 left in that first year of bussing so we're used to and where did they go they went to places we couldn't go to they went to parochial schools that also wouldn't admit us and allow us to come in they went to independent schools because many of them have resources the interconnection of these issues is that black families like my mother were relegated to poverty right those six million folks who moved to northern cities my mother being one of them during the 50s and 60s were relegated to house keeping jobs so the masses of black folks couldn't have the the the economic means to then move out of the city move into communities with better schools move into parochial education independent schools so we were left so the reality is we can't forget the whole ecosystem that created this dynamic it exists today black families at writ large cannot don't have the resources to go to their academy where my son goes or melt an academy or to go to some of the parochial schools and massive our kids will be educated in public education chem is a major champion and advocate historically around traditional public education we underfunded and i would argue defunded public education where most of our kids go we never saw that but but in 2024 in boston you know a lot more about this and i do but just you know being a reporter and talking to people on the radio we do spend a lot of money in boston on on the schools we spend much much money as you said i'm busing i think it was eleven million dollars a year of some astronomical money like that i guess i think it's a hell of a lot more and maybe there's a lot more i don't i don't know it's a lot it's a lot um and the argument is you point out that the people say well well i'm in a crummy school that's why i want to be able to go uh you know to a different school we have some crazy story about some poor kids got a 90 minute trek from high park to get to the um i think he's at the stem academy dearborn says this stomach having 90 minutes each way to get there which is insane so um what about getting to those neighborhood schools and maybe the neighborhood school isn't quite as good as the school and wellesley but when you have a neighborhood school you have moms you know nearby that you can help out with the child care and you have a a coalition around the school and you have parents able to come and hang out in the playground know what's going on and all that kind of thing but that doesn't seem to ever get close to reality here because a lot of what you're describing is a myth so we found when we did this task force that Ted sat on and other task force since then uh that there are a number of poor black kids who were being assigned to their neighborhood school and these magical things of parent involvement don't just materialize because of proximity the issue is still quality and how we get the best teachers in this school how we make sure we have the right curriculum that we are creating those opportunities for engagement simply being close to the school doesn't do it you've got to do a lot more if you want to see that kind of engagement okay so how kind of just to say you're off by a mere hundred million the transportation budget 111 million wow so it's not all busing that you'd object to but a lot of it is 116 million 10 percent of the total school budget so most of that is for busing kids who require special education again and outside of the district and having debated this when superintendent chain wanted to eliminate the busing and part of the resistance from communities of color was the neighborhoods we have to commute through if you take public transportation in reality as we even solve crime we've been solved poverty we haven't we haven't solved mass and cast we haven't solved the substance use disorder crisis and these things make parents nervous to not to put their child on two buses in a train versus a school bus so Chang and I used to have this conversation how do we solve for the safety of our children in a city that at times can be unsafe I think we should be thinking differently about busing and how we commute you know transfer children but safety is a part of it by the way Jill from Watertown texted it did any of your guests that would be you three meet judge Garrity as adults well you were an adult at the time there Ted and talk about the impact or decision any of the three of you ever meet never met him Garrity no you did not you know what I wondered though you mentioned this in your story Michael you wondered about the parents you know they were out there screaming throwing rocks and eggs and calling people the and we're gonna stuff each ever meet anybody later on years that said I'm sorry or well credit to Lufenfer and the group that's come together around busing because it put us in the same room to be in same conversations you know and I hate to make this comparison but I do because it's in my mind when I think about pictures of slavery I think about those families who stood around when they hung black bodies and I always wonder where are they now right where are there kids who are five and six celebrating or throwing something at the body right and we tend to let that sort of die in history but there's a story behind that I want to know what they're doing now and who they're voting for what their politics are the same would be true about those people in south Boston and Charlestown because I don't know if we crack the code on that hate yet and the reality is if we don't ever pull them out of the shadows and have a conversation then maybe that hate is seeding somewhere else in a classroom and a courtroom on another street corner because we've never dealt with it well I'm sorry go ahead to my apologies yeah I have met some of the parents and kids who were involved really but it's a self-selected group they're the people who are willing to come to me and they have in fact expressed regret at what they did and at what happened but the people who were out there throwing the rocks have not come forward mr. Rakes that had the american flag that came after yeah he he has elected not to come forward or what he's been asked to on many occasions but many of the parents and kids have said that they lost something too and that they would welcome an opportunity to enter into some sort of healing process and I think that that's what Lou Finfer and his group are trying to do at this point that is to start some real discourse and dialogue on what we learned and how we apply those learnings to a very different demographic situation within the schools right now and Larry Dakara and his book is a friend of mine but Larry had the book and that's something I've never known that Whitey Bulger was planning to run violent attacks at those buses coming to South Boston and I think there's a piece coming out soon it tells that story wow there's more to this story right that that what if what if he had succeeded he and the mob had succeeded in attacking those buses and took his brother and other politicians to convince him to step back and not perpetrate that crime against those children is this this is more disturbing than I think we as Bostonians and Americans have even scratched the surface on you know what I'd like to do because we're out of time we've spent most of this half hour talking about history which I think is really important I hope you'll all come back actually as a group maybe in a few weeks and focus the whole discussion on the future based on what we've learned mistakes are made some things right and talk about how we how is Mayor Janey so how you get the quality schools exactly I hope you'll do that we'd love to have you back all three of you and thank you for your time and your thoughts today we really appreciate it thank you very much we have been talking reflecting I should say in the 50 years 50 years since the start of busing in Boston Boston's first black mayor and woman mayor Kim Janey now president CEO of Economic Mobility Pathways the NAACP's Michael Curry who's also CEO of the Mass League of Community Health Centers and distinguished professor professor of public policy and urban affairs at Northeastern the man who kept his composure and pushed our city forwards toward a more equitable future tense Lance Mark we're very very grateful for all of us we should mention next Friday in the show we're going to be speaking with two more people whose lives were shaped by busing we owe the Hampton and Linda Stark Walker at the center of a great new documentary produced by our colleagues at GBH to mark this anniversary we'll hope you tune in coming up after the one-clock news the ACLU of Massachusetts Carol Rose listening to Boston Public Radio welcome back to Boston Public Radio 89 7 GBH he is Jim Brady I am Marjorie Egan we are broadcasting live from the Boston Public Library and streaming at youtube.com/gph news hello again Jim here for round three now the reason when Marjorie and I are both laughing if you're not here and seeing his laugh is because Marjorie excoriates me every day because we're just out of the one o'clock news we did around Labor Day because that's what you all wanted now we're trying to give it to you no it's because Jim wanted to go over and do a sim and Marjorie is always yelling at me because I forget and I started speaking at one o'clock and it's fair to say you forgot today I forgot that's why I was just chatting and she looked up and said uh oh in any case now we resolved that I resolved we're joined now by Carol Rose executive director she saw the whole thing by the way executive director of the Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts Carol it's great to see you it's great to be here so Carol tell us about a lot of us are hoping that the pro-choice forces will be a big factor in the election I know the abortion is on the ballot in ten states but what do we what do we think it's going to do for the election well I mean abortion really is on the ballot and bodily integrity is really on the ballot coming up and you know as you said it's on the ballot in like ten states there's ballot initiatives and let's say oh gosh Florida there's Missouri there's Nebraska there's Arizona um and every time totally we shouldn't say only two states on the list of ten which are uh swing states which is Nevada and Arizona the others matter but they're not they're either definitely red or definitely blue but go ahead although I mean it's interesting to say that red versus blue because in every place where abortion has been on the ballot and we're talking about police like Kansas Kentucky Michigan or Iowa Pennsylvania Virginia and Wisconsin the voters have overwhelmingly said it's not for the government to decide what we do with our bodies it's not up to the government we shouldn't let the government do that and every time it's been on the ballot and this is because like the vast majority of people in this country don't think that the government should get involved in whether or not somebody needs abortion care or whether or miscarriage care or IVF care or contraception and so this is really an important moment for the country to decide are we going to go forward and be able to have the government getting out of our bedrooms and out of our bodies are we going to go in the wrong direction by the way let me be clear what I meant I didn't mean that because it was in red state particularly based upon the history that we're not the pro-choice position would not prevail I meant that even if it drew a huge amount of people out to a lot of these very conservative states they're not all of a sudden going to vote for Kamala Harris a majority right but they will draw up more voters however the the part of this that is so incredibly disturbing is how particularly republican governors like DeSantis are reacting I didn't know until a couple he put together this election police thing to solve a problem that doesn't exist at all in Florida but obviously it helped him he thought to be president he didn't quite make it so from what we read election police are going to the houses of people who signed the petition they got 900,000 signatures to get the question on the ballot that's right in Florida according to some accounts they come to the door to ask if this is your legitimate signature even though no one is questioning the signature and at least one person is in a story I think in the New York Times I'm not sure saying when the person came to my door not only did they have a copy of a petition I did sign they had a file with ten pages of documentation right on me that had nothing to do so talk about voter intimidation that's exactly what it is and you know this is my voting rights and reproductive justice and all these other issues are are integrated they're one and the same and voting rights are the place right now where some of these anti-abortion authoritarian people are trying to stop it so they're sending uniform police officers to the homes of people who just simply signed a petition saying I think it should be on the ballot I mean I don't even know how I'm going to vote on it I just think it should be on the ballot and the fact that he set up this police force and he's sending them door to door is just a egregious case of voter intimidation and that's why groups like the ACLU are challenging that are you that was my question absolutely absolutely and by the way the plan you made a minute ago in terms of small d democracy the fact that you signed a petition including in Massachusetts to get a question on the ballot means you believe the public has the right to vote we we asked Charlie Baker to sign in our studio the millionaires tax which he passionately opposed and he signed it right because he thought the people had a right to vote he signed it and he voted against it right it's a form of direct democracy and the ability to be on the ballot is to say that if for example we were to live in a state where the state legislature wasn't being effective in passing laws the people taking it directly to the ballot that's a way for the people to exercise their franchise in a different way other than necessarily by electing officials you know Cal Rose um the abortion pills are very safe we've known this for years but sometimes there can be post-pill infections and this is what happened to a mother of a six-year-old in Georgia this story is so upsetting you you explain what happened so this was again this was a woman who um a 29-year-old woman she had a six-year-old child she found out she had just moved out of her mother's basement you know finally was on her own was getting going found out that she was pregnant and didn't wasn't able to take to have that pregnancy she didn't want to she had she was pregnant with twins she just didn't think it would be fair to her child or to herself or her to her ability to go forward as a parent and so she wanted to get an abortion but she couldn't because of the ban on abortion care she was just a couple days over the deadline which i think is like six weeks it's very very Georgia did we say that Georgia yeah um and so she decided she would have to go to another state so she you know went up to North Carolina went down to up to North Carolina uh so she could get abortion care um and she got a dn dnc which is an abortion a surgical abortion um and then they sent her back home well as rarely happens but sometimes happens she started to bleed out and so she couldn't get all the way back up to the Carolinas so instead she went to the hospital in Georgia and the doctors were too afraid to treat her because they were afraid that they would be criminally prosecuted and so she died and it's just died and this and leaving a six-year-old without a mother so this is the kind of thing people really cared about life they would want people to get medical care you know abortion medication is safer than viagra you know it's safer than penicillin um and whatever any of us think personally about whether or not somebody should seek abortion care it's not up to us and it sure as heck shouldn't be up to the government that is up to the patient and the provider in consultation with their families and with their religious people whoever they want to talk to but it shouldn't be a whole bunch of people in Washington trying to decide what we do with our bodies it's just shameful and this is just one of the many cases that we've had about people who have uh suffered who have have suffered miscarriages and they weren't able to get care until they were bleeding out um who then lost the ability to have future children because they couldn't get the medical care well can we there's also another thing i'm really embarrassed that i had not thought about this before some of the medical professionals in Georgia most off the record for fear of being gone after made the uh point that the this whole thing that we often celebrate well at least they have an exception for the life of the mother these medical professionals we're making the point is i think it's necessary for the life of the mother what happens if i perform the procedure and a court decides it wasn't necessary right to save the life i can be prosecuted i could go to jail so so the value of that exception is nil is nil i mean obviously it's better to have it than not to have it because hopefully some doctors will decide i'll do the right thing because of that but that is a yes people have to be disabused including me about the value of that exception right it's not really well it raises it the question how close to death does do you have to be the woman have this woman which is really this woman they left her bleeding out for 20 hours 20 hours i mean you know it just drives me insane because it is basically saying that women's lives are really not worth that much because you know if if we're in some kind of childbearing state i mean it's just in raging it is in raging and it's wrong and it's unfair and that's why the vast majority of people across the country support the right to seek abortion care and miscarriage care and IVF if you want to because except the united republicans in the united states senate by the way who voted down IVF yet you know and the other thing is is you point out in that situation this woman just moved out of her mother's basement and she couldn't afford to have another kid poverty is a major reason why people have abortions i remember years ago we're not for the terrible murders at the Planned Parenthood clinic and the other clinic in Brookline i got to go there and interview a woman who was having an abortion there and she was a mother she came from New Hampshire she was a mother um she had been on welfare but she she had a kid that was about four years old she got in her life together she just got a job as a bus driver right but she her birth control failed i say i think people think oh everybody has birth control birth control fails even the birth control pill sometimes fail and this woman was brokenhearted she was brokenhearted crying the whole time but she could not afford to have this abortion she just gotten a job and i remember she was so broke that she said she would she would forgo the cost of the anesthesia and had an abortion without any anesthesia because it was going to cost her extra uh together she misunderstood they probably would have given it to her but she had an abortion without anesthesia and that is excruciating you know and she cried the whole time right you know and on a personal level to your point about the poverty um people are driven to to seek abortion care not because they want to but because they feel like it's a desperate act and they will do it and we know that before we had the protections of Roe versus Wade people did see so-called back alley abortions and you know my father was a medical examiner um and i didn't know where was the medical examiner um in Iowa and he became from Iowa i'm actually from Virginia Texas and Iowa and California i mean wow and now Boston is my home bite choice oh for the longest period of time but go ahead i'm sorry but he became very um active in supporting uh Planned Parenthood and reproductive justice and things because so many people were coming into the morgue and he was so outraged by all these young people coming into the morgue young women coming into the morgue who had died and so he became very accepted in this abortion efforts because when someone is desperate enough they will find a way whether it's safe or unsafe and if it isn't safe and legal then people will find a way to do it that will put their harm themselves at harm and put their families at harm and we the case in Georgia that we're just talking about there's now a six-year-old who doesn't have a parent yeah i mean how horrible was that so anybody who again people can agree about their own personal views on this but the notion that the government should be making this decision for is is just simply wrong and i think the vast majority of the voters know that it's wrong and that's why wherever it comes up you know it the people whether it's in Kansas or Kentucky or Massachusetts the vast majority of people don't want the government to be involved in these decisions that was when that was when i came on the house the best lines which you don't have to abandon your faith right to think that the government should not be the person making these decisions Donald Trump should not be the person making these moral decisions oh my god yeah especially since he doesn't really give a damn about it to begin with as long as we're so can we get back to this life of the mother thing for a second so you're in a state where there are great limitations on the right to choose you there is an exception for the life of the mother a doctor a medical professional goes to the civil liberties union and says exactly what i said or what they said in Georgia before i know that if we don't provide services to this woman she's going to die but i'm worried that when i do it someone's going to challenge and say she wouldn't have died and get some cracked pot expert uh to go after me what do you what is the civil liberties union do for that person right so we have a hotline a abortion legal defense hotline we have one here in Massachusetts that's through the attorney general's office but we have a national ACLU abortion defense hotline so if there are any is any of the civil liberties here through the ACLU that's right the national ACLU at aclu.org and if there are providers or patients or anyone else who has a question about that they can call the hotline because each individual circumstance is going to be different but we have lawyers both criminal defense lawyers and other and civil rights lawyers standing by who are able to both answer your questions and if necessary provide representation fair enough for towing a cow rose head of the civil liberties union master's let's stay on the bad news front for a couple of minutes before we talk about some of the good work that your organization is doing i mentioned to a caller before at the top of the show i didn't mean to jump down his throat but i did because uh he was talking about how he heard a podcast where he felt much better about the security of the election and the ability to essentially protect the true vote and i uh said that's whoever said that is bs and the example i gave was georgia where there is an attempt to put well they're already being put in place election officials who whose a valid purpose is the challenge certification of voting results if they show that Kamala Harris won uh so in their county and their district and whatever the hell it is in which case i don't understand the mechanism there but this is not just georgia it's in a number of places most egregiously they're even the republican governor is anxious and upset about some of these things what would happen if there's a failure to certify at a certain date the legislature over while only republican would say donald trump won whether he won or not obviously the harris forces would appeal it would go to the spring court of the united states and even though they did the right thing last round on cases around trump who the hell knows in light of what they've done so in light of the fact that the most important well first of all explain what pre-clearance was there was done away with in the shelby case i think in 2013 or something and explain that uh what it was and now that it's gone and what you do and your colleagues do to ensure that a situation like i described doesn't allow the spring court to pick the president right okay so shelby county uh was a case that challenged the pre-clearance um section of the voting rights act so the voting rights act when it was passed um under lbj said that when there are states primarily the states in the south that have a history of oppressing voting rights of discriminating against people and preventing people from exercising their right to vote that if they want to change the rules they first have to get pre-clearance they have to be cleared by the government by the federal government to say what you're doing doesn't violate people's rights okay so when the shelby county case came in they challenged that and it was a case uh a decision by john roberts justice chief justice john roberts that said oh well racism is over in america like we don't have a problem with but we don't need this anymore and they got rid of the pre-clearance requirement and that was article five of the voting rights act so the only thing that was left was article two which says if after the fact something bad happens then you can sue but it's already happened but it's already happened and it's kind of too late so that's what they did when they got rid of the pre-clearance requirement so that really made it harder for groups like the aclu and other voting rights groups to try to challenge these efforts to deny people the right to vote through these various mechanisms that you're talking about so whether it's things like voter id requirements or you can't um you know there there are fewer voting places so people have to stand in line for hours in georgia they actually try to prevent people from giving water to people that was the whole step the whole year of kerb your enthusiasm was about larry david giving somebody water in line in georgia the whole season right exactly so that is limited our ability to prevent the kind of shenanigans that you're talking about jim however the aclu nationwide both here in massachusetts and nationwide has mobilized a huge number of volunteers and also lawyers to go into every state to go and be neutral non-partisan poll watchers because the aclu is non-partisan um but we have lawyers who are on call with the hotline that i was talking about if these things take place we are challenging these voting restrictions and i think eleven different states right now we have pending and ongoing lawsuits and all these different states so we're throwing everything we have at it we're putting a huge number of resources in it however that doesn't mean that we're going to win those cases right and so i think there really is a legitimate danger um that you're talking about that some of this stuff is going to happen and that our democracy is really on the line so it's tremendously important that people turn out both here in massachusetts people it doesn't matter what happens in massachusetts yes it does it actually matters a lot and so we need to vote in every state we need to get people out to vote in every state and we'll be sending people from massachusetts um from our team also into some of these battleground states to make sure that it's a free and fair election to the extent that we can but you never know before we talk about something else you put out this election action plan which will be a value to people some margarita through the years despite the shelby decision which we just talked about written by roberts you have said you held out hope that roberts was the same voice and the conservative majority what you read in the near times is where you know about him last sunday which was just an eye-opener about really this is all part of his plan that the roberts court is is um this is what he wants the unitary executive it's getting all of this incredible power it's in effect creating a king instead of a president and it's so dangerous and it's so destructive to our democracy and it's very uh you know people always talk about activist judges i mean my god it's the most activist court absolutely we've had a decade so that was very upsetting why are you asking me that what i'm saying because we just mentioned that the shelby case which was a huge case in terms of voting rights was roberts and by the way i wasn't criticized i i subscribed to the same school you did that for the that the his preservation of the affordable care act was right but in fact he's the driving force not just clarins thomas and samuel is this is this a prefix to the story about the supreme court uh picking the next president no we just talked about no it's not a prefix it's an after fix we talk about this that's it okay so let's end with some good news what the hell what is this election action what is this thing so i'm i just have to say um over the summer the aclu both here in massachusetts and in every we were in every state across the country have been working on election action plans to make sure that we can do whatever we can to engage the people in ensuring free and fair elections and here in massachusetts we have a five-point plan that people can look at at aclum.org if they want to get involved they can sign up to be neutral poll watchers get out the vote so the elements of the plan are first to build people power between now and election day and we've been doing this now for more than a year uh we're working in five uh communities um that are often underrepresented broughton pitsfield spring field borons and wister and we're going door to door and we're talking to people about the importance of voting and how they can get involved and engage not only at the federal level but in their school boards and in their you know town meeting and state legislative races so really trying to get people to engage because i've said this before you know democracy is a muscle and the more you exercise it the stronger it gets um the second thing is monitoring and protecting the polls again the aclu is nonpartisan but we are training people so if you're interested in being a poll watcher uh in here in massachusetts you can sign up at aclum.org the third is to safeguard free expression and political speech we've had a number of instances of people calling in and saying that when they tried to put a political law sign out um town officials said they weren't allowed to put up uh political signs so you are allowed to put up political signs um and so just so people know that so there's a lot of free speech things we're looking at um we're doing no your rights to trainings political size what are the rules though is it your own property or on your own property on your own property okay okay yeah um and they were making sure people know their rights we're doing a series of know your rights training so it's know your rights if you're an immigrant know your rights around reproductive health care know your rights around voting rights know your rights around protest and freedom of speech so if people are interested in having their group or learning about how they can join and know your rights training we have those going on does that include knowing your rights about migrating to canada in december jim will do a tutorial for you i'm sorry continue i just wanted to check and then the last thing is really talking about how we're going to shore up civil rights and civil liberties whatever happens you know the ACLU has been around for over a hundred years started here in massachusetts and we're in all 50 states and we've been through 19 presidents um so presidents come and go but the ACLU stays and so one of the things that we're already starting to look at is what are the steps that we can take so that if uh Trump takes power what are the steps that we can take to protect democracy here in massachusetts and if a Harris gets in power what are the things we can do to make sure that we never go to this place again because i don't think it's right for our democracy every four years to have the democracy itself this close to the edge i think we need to find ways structural whether it's ending the filibuster right choice voting national popular vote there are a lot of mechanistic things systemic things we can do and that's one of the things the ACLU has been working on here in massachusetts and across the country aclum.org to get a copy of it two questions before you go briefly if we can this is sort of uh what can you do to help this is the same question i asked you around the medical professional uh poll you said if you want to be a neutral poll observer okay so we know what happened we talked about them earlier today to Ruby Freeman and Shay Moss the mother and daughter in georgia whose lives were totally destroyed their lives threatened because they were doing their job uh responsibly and for virtual i don't you know for no money uh we know what juliani and a president of the united states attacked them and their lives were just totally destroyed they did win a hundred and some million dollar judgment against really juliani thank goodness i don't think he's paid him anything he hasn't yet no but uh he hasn't yet that's correct uh we know that 16 states election divisions including massachusetts had suspicious envelopes delivered to them in the last 24 hours we know that uh vance trump at all the new hampshire libertarian party make threats as part of their mo why would what do you say to somebody who says i really want to do this i really believe in democracy i want to help but frankly i'm scared uh that i'm the next in line for the kind of treatment that that guy on the radio just described it's it's a legitimate question and i would just say that freedom isn't free people throughout the history of this country have fought and died to save our democracy and this is our turn this is our turn you know these these forces against democracy aren't new we've seen them when we had a civil war you know over those but every time there has been a threat to our democracy whether it's the civil war or joe mccarthy or any other time there have been people who stood up and and risked their lives often gave their lives to defend our democracy well this is our turn this is our moment in history and i sure hope that our country survives it beautifully put before you go very quickly uh just to preview our next discussion how do you feel about liverwurst not a fangi oh what i have limits i have limits on what i think should be allowed yeah how about head cheese well you're really a fan of liverwurst and i'm so disappointed people in my office often refer to me as the head cheese i'm not sure yeah i'm not sure that's good or bad carol i don't know all right i love despite that position thank you for being here we appreciate carol rose executive director the american civility american civil liberties union of massachusetts up next this concludes the serious news portion of the show thank god what are you talking about seriousness well i i would say this is serious for some of us well i am liverwurst crisis facing america we now enter the absurd because of course jim is upset with bors head because they've ended production of it's correct the liverwurst that goes into the liverwurst sandwich which jim really likes you remember there was a listeria outbreak at at the borsett plant we're going to open the lines to ask you about other disgusting foods that you might like or not like slippery foods meat jelly head cheese the aforementioned you don't even know what head cheese was three hours ago i never heard of cheese and after i read about it i'm glad i didn't know anything about it because i will never eat it anyway you are listening to boston public radio 89 7 gph live from the boston public librarians streaming online at youtube.com slash gph news welcome back to boston public radio jim bratty and marjorie and we're live at the boston public librarians streaming at youtube.com slash gph news it's he it's actually hard for me to even read the following sentence but i'm going to power my way through it in the wake of a listeria outbreak at the borsett production plants the company has announced you ready for this permanently discontinuing liverwurst production now for anyone under the age of let's say 50 liverwurst is actually sort of a patte very fancy very nutritious and yes i'm not minimizing nine people did die because of this outbreak they should obviously fix the problem dozens were hospitalized but don't i deserve to eat what i want so am i the only person who is devastated by this news marjorie obviously is not uh-huh what will i have to eat now oliveloaf marjorie head cheese all of bianna sausages and a can the lines are open we want to ask you about as marjorie calls it the slippery foods that you love that others can't stand what gross food at least to some does it for you like liverwurst does it for me you know apparently jim a lot of people are big liverwurst fans it's fabulous listen to our show liverwurst is one of the few things i ever agree with jim broutie on thank you nothing like a liverwurst an onion sandwich with spicy mustard says art from west bridge water caden from Sudbury i'm a devoted liverwurst fan my order eight slices of liverwurst cut on the three and a half separated by papers please oh i guess so it doesn't all stick together yeah yeah counter from manchester i have adored liverwurst since i was in the first grade wow so let me kind of get back to art from west bridge water and thank you art for your enlightened email even though it's slightly off the dream sandwich for some of this which you should try if you weren't so small-minded on this is you toast the piece of bread let's say rye bread for example you smear as he says spicy mustard on it my choice is disjean you slice a red onion thinly you put a blob don't laugh a blob of liverwurst on it and possibly is where art left out maybe a slice of Swiss cheese oh top of the thing and i would say that is one of the finest sandwiches ever by the way you shouldn't even be part of this you can't even eat gray pupol i am why i'm a great pupol that's the john mustard that is great pupol i mean it doesn't have to be that's a brand say will you say it for a place great pupol now let me i took french four years great pupol pupol now margarine since i said what uh i love that a lot of people find disgusting but it is a thought my list of favorites what do a lot of people love that you find disgusting or the reverse what do you love that a lot of other people find disgusting go ahead well i don't like all i don't like things like roe oysters or clams because they're the slimy foods slimy slippery food i certainly don't like that thing you mentioned before the olive loaf thing oh my god well let me tell you head cheese let's talk about head cheese for a second before we take holes now first of all yeah i never say this word on the air but i'm gonna say it now so hide the kids yeah if you've never seen head cheese who hadn't seen it you hadn't seen her james somebody knew that saying such things kind of tell you it looks like and i apologize it looks like sliced vomit that's what i know i i'm sorry but thank you jamey told me how to say that now here here's a description of head cheese you ready yep it's made of pig scraps that primarily come from an animal's head yes the tongue the snout the cheek the year sometimes the heart and if they're feeling wild the feet and they combine it is like a jelly kind of thing within the within the slices of the and there are by the way if you go to a deli which i don't think you do nearly as much as i do head cheese is a fairly popular thing with a certain demographic well i i it's a thank you i'm oh you're welcome i'm gonna be rushing off to get me that kind of stuff too you know one of the one of the other things i think that people um think is disgusting are those jelly moles you know that you mentioned before jelly moles you know where they have a little thing so no the jelly but no one makes that since our grandmothers no they do they do absolutely some people are still making how about spam does that fill in that category it's been kind of like a lion's swear by it well there's also the Hawaiian swear but you're in the spam museum we've talked about this a lot of things in Minnesota we haven't done that now apparently on this list of things something that a lot of people like and i'm i don't know if you do lambs testicles have you heard of lambs testicles no i have not but one of the things i remember when i was a little kid that my grandfather used to eat pig's feet and you'd see them in the glass door how do you eat it pig's feet i don't know i don't know and you see little hoos in there and it was just disgusting and i don't know what he did with him but he my he ate him okay so you don't like oysters because they're slimy i will tell you a kind of oyster that is not slimy that a lot of people like do you know what a rocky mountain oyster is i think it's something i think it's something also something you ever had one you've had one they're fabulous i can tell by look on your face yeah she's the happiest i've ever seen i think there's somebody else's testicles aren't they they're bull's testicles they are it's a it's an acquired taste i think is the bottom line eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seventy so two choices here what is the food that you love that other people consider disgusting in my case is liverwurst or the food that other people love that you consider disgusting like oysters for margarita this from a texture what pickle pimento love is the fillet menu of deli pimento loaf is like olive loaf it has olives in the damn loaf and it's actually quite fine okay as some people object apparently to clamp pizza they don't want to have clamps on top of their pizza they think that's terrible what takes some calls dave in the car thank you for calling hello dave hey long time many times thank you jama minis i'm gonna save your day please i've never had fours head um liverwurst but i buy it all the time at market basket and it's Oscar Meyer makes it and it's pretty darn good it is you know they have it they have it in the tube they have it in slices it's it's a beautiful thing well dave don't go away i wasn't gonna bring this up because i thought margarita is upset already but since you're a a pro liverwurst tube kind of person one of the great joys margarita you should try this too is if you get a tube of liverwurst you cut a small hole in the end and you squeeze it and shoot it right into your mouth have you ever done that i was right on brother i'm right there with dave you are my guy what the other thing i want to add was one thing i really hate is blood stops i don't know if you've ever had one i don't like that i don't like that i'm horrible not with you on that i don't like that he's dead like him or not like him no he hates him he says that was an excellent cold dave call us again thank you very much you heard of locks trimmings yeah but do you know what locks is i don't lock locks and bagels what what oh my god look what aiden has by the way margarita you care about our listeners yeah i see the littwurst right there why don't you have a little taste right now i'm not gonna do that i'm not gonna do that i'm not gonna do that where'd you get that where'd you go it's the last of the bores head oh great it's the last of the bores head aiden says even i may pass on that by the way they close down the whole damn plant is that plant by the way for wherever it's where you don't know this either when it comes to cold cuts other than cold cuts that are freshly made cold cuts like go to mama's or something in brook line no i'm not having that i'll take it i'm happy to take it i'll take it you are so small-minded it's unbelievable oh my god okay and as i was saying it looks like it's shiny or something it's bores head with the cream of the crop when it comes to deli meets i always thought bores it was very good very good slice turkey slice chicken i mean you do run the risk of dying but that is well no no no they they say thank you it's the happiest i think they're acting responsibly oh jones oh jones this is not even uh uh what do you call it it's not even uh bores head so it's fine i'm gonna need some thank you it is very kind i'm gonna do it in a minute okay go crazy let's meanwhile let's go to tomorrow in the car hi tomorrow hey tomorrow we're talking liverwurst well hi hey guys how are you good fine thank you um wait do i need to turn my radio down you do she'll do that would be good you do it would be good you've only been doing that for like 70 years okay so it's no reason tomorrow's first time caller no she's not she ready what what do you do what's your deal with okay now you're back hello there tomorrow okay okay um so i want to tell you that there are three things that i love one is liverwurst thank you you're trying to get all hipster on me putting it on rye bread it's got to be on wonder bread a lot of people wonder bread a lot of people think that yeah go ahead wonder bread and with white onion yellow mustard hmm and a slice of slimy american shit yeah no you you're really okay i was being a feet go ahead or you or you got fried salmon on wonder bread or fried baloney on wonder bread but i would like to say that i am the executive director of a farm that grays food for food pantries and central math organics to both but i will still go for us like a fan once in a while now what's the name what's the name of what's the name of your operation we want to give you a little lift there what's the name of your place that's awesome it's called overlook farm it's in rutland now oh i've heard of that yeah we don't need a 2,600 pounds this stuff the seven food pantries and central math oh good that's by the way who do you want to say who uh owns overlook farm um actually we're on profit so we're not owned it's right next to where heifer used to be and now it's um lilac but you guys can have us on with a bunch of other farms that are giving back and growing food we can't buy fresh vegetables it's a pretty special place uh we uh stay on the line uh and the only reason i'm doing this is not because of your wonderful work but because you like the liverwurst so stay on the hold and we'll take your contact information and we'll uh we'll be in touch thank you uh tomorrow very much for your call we appreciate it Kevin from New Hampshire loves canned fish herring mackerel sourdoods i'd less than a handful of people who even tried it very healthy for you he says Richard Ross Rossendale i am all about pickled herring love it on pumpernickel love it on Triscus Christian Belmont spicy scrapple there you go you want scrapples by the way i don't know it's something that's mostly like a Pennsylvania kind of thing that is not uh people got upset when i say this it's not unlike spam but it's a i would say it's a Pennsylvania variety which is a lot easier i mean this is a pun to stomach so thank you for for that okay we're getting the climate change argument here liverwurst aside beef is one of the major causes of global warming none of us should eat it pig farms accumulate the urine of the animals in a big pond on site and then empty it by spraying the contents over nearby areas usually the homes of low-income people oh my god that's laura and gohasa that sounds absolutely horrible um and that's about oh jarred jarred filter fish is that that's the thing you eat fillet no no no no no give filter fish mark not filter you eat that well that's what the texture is filled the fish is mostly a thing that i would say jewish people eat yeah and gafilte fish is like ground up pike it is then formed into a ball and uh it is generally this part you like by the way it is generally in a jar with jelly surrounding the jar and i have to say i i want to be open-minded about this yeah it is very hard to eat a piece of gafilte fish straight the key to gafilte fish as i've tried to teach you in the 25 years i've known you look at Jamie that's not helpful Jamie's making a face you get red horse radish which contrasts with the gray color of the gafilte fish and you bathe the gafilte fish and red horse radish and then you eat the combo okay that sounds wonderful by the way the reason why i asked that woman about overlooked farm i just i confused it i've heard of what i've heard of which is lookout form oh look out which is owned by some of the great people who have ever lived the bellcans who by the way are fans of the show and are among the most philanthropic people on the planet a lot of people are writing about filter fish you know we ate dinner at their house by the way do you know that they bid for us and in auction and you said it was one of the best nights of life is there also something called filter filter filter filter no gafilte fish they're just spelling it wrong maybe they are maybe it's automatic correcting with a typewriter something like that okay let's go the way let me just say be clear so if you don't think i would herring out of a jar i would rather be water boarded than have that so i am not into all sorts of odd and disgusting okay that's good to know thank you i appreciate here's here's someone that says crawfish and sucking the meat juices out of it that's fabulous that doesn't get any better than that that's fabulous crayfish too crayfish whatever they are run from seabrook thank you mary liverwurst what do you think hi thanks for taking my call mary and glad you're feeling better thank you so am i i enjoy liverwurst i enjoy liverwurst a lot i acknowledge that it's bad for me i buy like two flights at the time i'm eating it now hey go ahead don't do it don't well the main thing i wanted to say is where is it i have an objection to just about anyone who states i hate that or i love that without personal experience the margarine exactly he's talking to you all right well i'm looking at that go ahead amount of liverwurst on my plate on not doing it go ahead not doing it well so just a last little thing like that raised us to try everything um he had i mean purerable sweet tooth and believe it or not if he had a liverwurst sandwich it was in with the peanut butter and jelly oh and i have two brothers and sisters that's he they'll do that to this day beautiful family beautiful people thank you ron there was a lovely story now margarine this may move you yes beyond the embarrassment ron caused you by saying you shouldn't criticize something i'm sure i just ate a half piece of a slice of the jones brown schweiger liverwurst and it is nothing short of spectacular that's good that's good liverwurst margarine yes can be a good source of healthy fats amino acids minerals and vitamins including vitamin a and vitamin b12 well that's just well just so does that change your mind at all or no i'm moving it away from me on the table but that is childish that is really childish slippery oh it's not slippery let's go to mark and stand up what do you think mark hey move it my way i'm ready to dodge right in just move it my way okay go ahead mark i grew up in the 70s uh down in Lancaster pennsylvania anyway there was a children's book called a cricket in times square oh some of your listeners know it yeah george selton i think it was a new very award-winning the mouse the little mouse is it their friends mouse a cricket the mouse love liverwurst and so i was already sort of primed to love it when i first tasted it i thought here's that hucker mouse or whatever who loved that liverwurst and it is heavenly i'm with the jim you can always whatever portions you're not eating you can mail them up here to sail on that we drink a month of octopus another beautiful person hey mark don't go away don't go away i mean i described i have to admit i was politely criticized by that caller i described the toasted rye de jon uh red onion great football uh swiss uh variety great people the caller talked about wonder bread a white onion horrible american cheese and liverwurst on it which do you prefer mark oh i'm either way but i i love the junky version of it fryerhopper's bakery bread strowman's if you can't do wonder which was cooked up or baked the right in my area of harrisburg when i was living in that area too either way i mean of a daily onion is a cream all but uh you know a regular white onion will will do fine you are one of the smartest callers we've ever had mark thank you very much for your call we really appreciate now people want you to read the ingredients from little worse i'd be happy too i'd be happy to yes uh they they're all here's what it has this is on the jones's uh brown shrieger liverwurst margarine you ready pork livers pork bacon and the bacon is cured with all good things sodium phosphate sodium ascorbate sodium something sodium something else potassium lactate is that good for you i think it is water salt spices dehydrated onions sodium diacetate sodium ascorbate sugar and sodium nitrate so it's delicious it's organic it's very organic that's right very natural under wood devil ham here's one do you ever i remember having that i hate devil ham under wood devil ham canned sardines a lot of guffila fish fans give delta fishes a horseradish delivery system sorry according to my grandmother the reason for the red horseradish over white horseradish is because she was degraded by hand oh and it got a little bloody so beet juice was added for that oh no by the way it is made red by beet juice that is correct it's margarine getting gin the liverwurst of a month club this christmas time maybe i should be a lot cheaper than the than the other ones it's gonna be more positive i usually am yep i was very close-minded when i saw that that my favorite liverwurst which is bores head was being permanently banned in a small-minded way i was angry at bores head and then when i did which is sort of what uh aden helped us with with jones i went to market basket on saturday rare if they announced a closure and i went to the liver closure the closure of their production of no no mark basket of liverwurst of bores head meant market basket i went to the uh section that has liverwurst in it naively thinking it'd be empty because bores head is gone there's a plethora of different kind of plethora i said that a plethora of liverwurst of different kinds with grey poop well you don't have to have it with grey poop ball uh-huh it's sad they did not have the grey poop hall right above the liverwurst so that you have a combo and the rolls right so the ads get the grey poop hall and then going around the neighborhood looking for people to have grey poop hall listen to this one pickled lambs tongue on crackers that's from tom from new china from new hand you know the tongue is also one of my favorite foods i did not know that jim is really cow's tongue jim i have three words for you chopped chicken livers well it's best you don't like chopped chicken liver either actually i had those when i was a kid yeah you know where you've had chopped chicken liver not chopped but chicken liver i know at the golden temple and book line i don't know if they have many more Chinese restaurant they have stir-fry chicken livers doesn't get any better now nate and wister says there are things such as guffilterfish or filter fish generally known as bottom feeders carp catfish etc some of these filter fish is different than guffilterfish how do you spell guffilterfish g-e-f-i-l-t-e okay there seems to be some confusion well maybe they just can't spell you know what i mean yeah no wonder jim is always getting his organs scanned that's really why is that so amazing i find it all right okay fine okay let's go to uh by the way some texas are criticizing us because we went from a really wonderful discussion about 50 years since busing to liverwurst and well we're first first of all let's okay we're first so let's write that it was not a smooth transition it was not a smooth transition laura and south dharma thank you for calling what's up hi i'm a first-time caller oh i had to pull over on the side of the road i actually meant a nice little place because i got so excited i love all the food pretty much not from that so love all the food that you have mentioned so far i i have eaten pig feet pickles pig feet oh exactly what they are i have cows health divine now hold on for a second what do you do with the pickle pig's feet how do you all i can see was the hooves and the glass jar i have a German father and that's why i sold weird foods yeah i can't find it that's i grew up in aila oh so um pickle pig's feet he you would not eat in your house too just a little bit dar oh but god laura how do you feel about head cheese how do you feel about head cheese i've never had i know tell me but um but we used to fight like some things like we we raised our cows and mom and the daughter five sisters and on it would fight over who could eat the liver let me get the liver wish i was part of their family yeah laura let me ask let me ask you some laura have you been listening is it tough connection uh you have one quick thing have you been listening to the show for a while yeah okay so here's here's a question for you you're listening to boston public radio and you hear a woman call in who says she's been listening to the show for a while and this is the first time she pulled over to the side of the road to talk about olive loaf and liverwurst what would you think of that person exactly yeah she's a little no they're friends no wait go ahead it's okay but okay i got back i got so excited because i love this kind of food we go to rubber burn celebrations every February we celebrate these birthday the studies poet um and i love haggis that's why i thought i love haggis we've discussed that too and okay uh but this is that whoever answered the phone when i called good didn't i'd be able to help me with this so ever since i've moved out to Massachusetts i cannot find limburger cheese what limburger cheese i would try for magio not that i'm an expert and actually whole foods has a lot of cheese uh things we'll check it out laura keep listening that was an excellent first call now and we'll try to solve your problem for laura thanks for the call i've been reading through the text and many people find that liverwurst brings them back to their childhood me too when i was a child staying with my grandmother should sometimes say you have been such a good girl today we're going to get some luscious liverwurst for lunch it's a child i did not like it but it made me think of my grandmother and sometimes i eat liverwurst and remember being special and my grandmother and here's somebody else she said while not a lover of laurawurst myself this segment brought me right back to memories of my mother who died about 10 years ago i see her sitting at the kitchen table with her liverwurst sandwich on rye white onion and mustard thank you for the memories does not almost make you cry when you think about that yeah by the way we've made a decision jamie and i while you're reading those talked about we have a lot of wonderful things scheduled for tomorrow yeah margarine's gonna tell you what it would have been we've canceled all the guests we're gonna do three hours on liverwurst and head cheese tomorrow because we're not going to be able to get to all of your calls okay so we have a hell of a show well i would say we have a lot of people who knew who really love me yes why can't you take because it's gross i'm not going to do it no what is gross about it just take a small bite jim why don't you just eat the whole thing i'm going to eat the whole thing i'm going to eat the whole thing and i'm not going to i'm not going to do it we are done though but thank you very much you're like a woman of the world and there's so certain things where you've shut the door that are just i've shut the door on that slippery looking liverwurst over there right about two and a half feet i can't move i can't move far enough away from it we'll push it over the edge a little bit more okay we are done thank you very much for listening to another edition of boston public radio thank you to everyone who came to see the show thank you at the boston public library thank you to people who had great memories of their mom's or the grandmother's and grandpa you're eating a liverwurst you're good for you go for it just go for it okay the best way as i said to the caller is you get a casing you get a tube of it cut a hole and you squeeze it right in squeeze it right in okay let's remember that and keep up with this 24/7 waiver podcast or check out our tiktok page boston public radio tomorrow i'm going to be joined by boston club is his columnist surely the young loves liverwurst she absolutely suffered county sheriff andrew kabraw comedian jimmy tingle a great guy from camera you've known over years filmmaker eric aronson and michael kirk from front line on their latest edition of the choice where they look at the backgrounds of the presidential candidates and contrast them obviously now we have come with harris and donald trump can i just say before you go ahead jimmy has made his first film about his run for lieutenant goger a new director film maker and eric aronson who's written some huge hits it's his first film directing and his jarid dullness it's a fictitious story about the lead up to the gardener uh femme okay our crew zoy matthews and calmly nicole garcia handle loss our engineer john the clob parker our executive producer chain balonia special thanks to the boston public radio boston public library staffs excuse me mati guyer bill frances wanjose cadenia and sandra lopez berg thanks to our host here at the newsfeed cafe and across the street at the lennox hotel jr is going to be back in a little while he won't be here in person he will be on friday but his show begins right after the two o'clock news the culture show here on eighty nine seven gb h i'm glad you've enjoyed the liverwurst jim i've just begun i really have just begun there's six slices left oh marjorie's a woman of the world one of the textures to make in front of me who couldn't find ever in the map actually i could find a map i know i've been made more of the times well i've been able to ever a lot let's put it that way i'm marjorie egan i'm uh jim bro thank you very much for tuning in today hope you can tune in tomorrow have a great afternoon you you you [ Silence ]