Host Rachel Miselman expresses her views on social media encounters, Jennifer Lopez, Celeste Headlee, the importance of listening over constantly talking or arguing, Catherine Vitale, Blexit, Scott Hayes & the first two amendments, & more.
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Bostonian Rap
Hello and welcome to Bostonian Wrap. My name is Rachel Maiselman. You are listening to me on WBCALP 102.9 FM Boston. This is Boston's community radio station. Before we go any further, of course, we're going to go to a quick disclaimer and then we're going to come back and jump right on in to tonight's show. The following commentary does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff and management of WBCA or the Boston Neighborhood Network. If you would like to express another opinion, you can address your comments to Boston Neighborhood Network 302-5 Washington Street, Boston, Massachusetts 02119. To arrange a time for your own commentary, you can call WBCA at 617-708-3215 or email radio at bnnmedia.org. Hello and welcome right back to Bostonian Wrap. Again, my name is Rachel Maiselman. You are listening to me on WBCALP 102.9 FM Boston. So, let's just, let's get right on into it. So, I was interacting with some people online and that could be either something that goes very well or something that goes very poorly. Unfortunately, it often goes very poorly. I'm speaking broadly now because people just do not know how to engage. It's not just about debating. It's just about engaging, interacting. And when people hear things that they don't like, my goodness, their reaction is just as simply outrageous. So, I had largely, actually, I had pretty much refrained from commenting on those pop-up ads, those ads that are sponsored, chronicling the latest chapter and the saga of this celebrity or that celebrity. I generally just kind of, you know, read through and this is, this is meta now, meta, Facebook, meta. And I would just kind of read through, but I would keep on scrolling. Lately, however, I have been, I've been commenting and I made a comment about Jennifer Lopez. And it is my opinion. Now, again, it's just my opinion. But I think she is incredibly overrated. I think she has no talent. I think she has no character. And I just, I've never been impressed. Now, don't get me wrong, she's put out some music that's been very catchy that I've enjoyed listening to. I don't mean to sound like a hypocrite because I just got through saying, well, it just said she had no talent. She has people behind her and people around her so that if she puts together a song, you know, there's a decent chance that it's going to be listenable. It's, it's going to be something that you could dance to. Although, having said that, she hasn't really had anything that I, that I think has been really good for quite some time. But again, she's, she's had some, I think, good people around her throughout her career. And they have been able to kind of nudge her or actually lead her in good directions, you know, whether we're talking about her singing, her acting, she's not going to be nominated for an Oscar anytime soon. But she's been in movies that, that people have gone to see, they've enjoyed for the most part. I think most people, if you ask them, they say, oh, yeah, you know, it's enjoyable. It's, you go to the movies, you sit there, you kind of unplug and you just, just there and watch her and, you know, whoever else is in the movie with her. But yes, I think she's had some good people around her, but she's, you know, uncertainly in business too, right? Let's not forget business because she's certainly done a lot in terms of clothes, perfume, skin care. She's really, she's really been pushing that last, you know, that last kind of venture a lot over the last few years. So yeah, she's had people around her that I think have been fairly savvy. But I just, I don't think that she's someone that innately has a lot of talent. I really don't. But I don't think it should be a big deal if I say that. So I said she has no talent, she has no character. That's, I mean, that's the bulk of what I said. I really didn't say much more than that. Well, my goodness. That unleashed a whole firestorm. And so I had people just really coming at me really hard. And it just made me think, I said to myself, well, my goodness, it's not just politics. I mean, when I was growing up, so I'm in my early 50s, of course, so when I was growing up, it was, you know, there were three things or a few things that you didn't discuss. I mean, people might have threw in one particular topic or maybe, you know, if you if you got into a room with a group of people and you threw out another topic, you know, some would say, oh, you could maybe talk about that. Whereas others would say, no, no, you shouldn't talk about that at all. Do you think, you know, religion, politics, those were the things that people generally stayed away from. But it has just gotten really, really bad. I just commenting on celebrities, people just, I mean, you would think that you are having a discussion about a political issue and not just any political issue, a particularly contentious one. And so I had people engaging in the same rhetorical imputative gymnastics that I've encountered in discussing politics. And I said, you know what, this is just pathetic. And so the instances of people insulting me say people insult me. I had people try to discredit me. I had people accuse me of being jealous. I had people accuse me of being stupid. I had people, I had, I had a few people say, well, if you worked hard and you had her money, maybe you wouldn't be so upset or angry or jealous. And I said, look, I don't have to tell you what I have or what I do or how hard I work, because quite frankly, none of that is any of your business. More to the point, it has nothing to do with my right to be able to say that I don't like Jennifer Lopez, I just don't. And had there been people, because it was just a whole bunch of people, and there's like one person in particular, and it just, she was trying to make it really, really personal. And, you know, I'm thinking to myself, you know, Lopez doesn't know either one of us. I mean, unless you're part of her entourage, I just, I don't get this. But it just made me think the rhetorical games that people play, the deflection, the moving of the goalposts, the introducing of the non-sequiturs, is just, it's amazing to me that people, if they don't hear what they want to hear, they immediately go on the attack. And so it's no longer just politics. And so that really makes it difficult to really talk about anything. And it's just so sad. And then when you add into the equation, that so much of what we do today is online, I definitely think that, that exacerbates the situation. I really think that that makes a bad situation worse, because a lot of people have become incredibly comfortable saying things that they never would have said. In person. Of course, we're even seeing a shift in that because now people are getting into fights or even worse instigating them. And we'll, we'll, we'll get to that very shortly. But when I do this show, it's not just a matter of me getting in front of a microphone. There's certainly different things that I want to encourage. And one of them is always going to be, please get out and vote. But of course, people don't want to do that, especially my side of the aisle. What people on my side of the aisle want to do is they want to be right. They want to own the libs. And I hate that expression even. But I mean, that's really, that's what they want to do. They want to get the last word. They want to be able to point and laugh at how ridiculous the other side is being. And that's, I guess, okay, sure. Why not? But after a certain point, what do you offering as an alternative? What do you offering as an alternative? And there's nothing being offered as an alternative. So that's why I think in a lot of instances, my side comes up short, right? And I think that there's a lot that we need to do. And I don't even want to say the PR war, but we need to do a lot better at defining who we are owning who we are. Forget about owning the other side, owning the lives. We need to own ourselves. We need to own our own persona. We need to we need to define who and what we are. We can't let other people do that. We can't leave that job, that critical job to other people. But I guess, yes, there are few things that, you know, to get back to the point, there are a few things that I want to do with this show that I've always wanted to do. I do want people to get out and vote. It's so, it's so important. Certainly, as I start to say, members of the left do it, but my side, they're engaged in other things that they would like to do. They're a lot better on national level, but certainly federal level, but certainly local or even state. There's work to be done, at least in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. But another thing that I want to help kind of vault or kind of extoll hold up as really, at this point of virtue, is listening. I mean, people don't want to listen anymore. People just want to talk. People hear things. And if they don't like what they hear immediately, as I was describing, they go on the attack. And there's no effort to have an honest exchange. There's no effort to learn. There's no desire. It's this idea that I know everything there is to know. And it's like, well, no, you don't. That's impossible. And so, yes, I definitely want to encourage people to listen. And one of the best talks I have listened to on this issue is from Celeste Headley. And she's just wonderful. She is a writer. She gives talks. And she gave this wonderful TED talk on basically how to have a good conversation. And throughout it, she stressed the importance of listening. And one thing she said that really struck me. And it was really kind of, I don't want to go as far as to say it was an epiphany. But certainly, everything that she was saying really made me think. And what she was saying is, I always thought that I could learn from somebody. That whoever it was, they had something, and I'm paraphrasing, but this really is the gist of what she was saying. You know, I always thought that there was something that I could learn from everybody. And so, I would like to encourage that as much as I could. Certainly, on this TED talk, I think is very interesting. But I think, and it's definitely worth viewing. But just speaking more broadly, it's just, listen, not to attack, but to learn. I just, I don't understand this, this defensiveness, this reluctance to take on board another point of view. It's like, it offends people now to even have to hear something that they don't agree with. And it can even be the time of day with the color of the sky, or whether the earth is, well, I mean, there are people who want to argue that it's flat. But the time of day, the point is, is people just, if they hear something they don't like, that they don't think themselves, their back instantaneously goes up. So, listen, very important. I'm going to go to a quick break. And then, when I come back, I'm going to pivot and move on to another topic. I often talk a lot about politics, but I do like to get in discussion about social issues, trends, phenomena, because, quite honestly, before we even have issues in the political arena, as I often say, they're going to be issues in society, in our communities, the way we interact with each other, the way we go about trying to solve problems, or ignore them. And that behavior, those different types of behavior, makes its way to politics. So, it's always been very much offering not only political commentary, but social commentary for me. So, I think tonight, it might be a little bit more social commentary than usual, but there'll be some political as well. But as I said, let's go to that quick break. And then, when we come back, we're going to pivot and move on to a different topic. Again, here's that song again for the hundredth time today. Here's that song again. It's gonna be stuck in your head all day. Here's that song again. It will make you cray cray. You love your kids enough to watch that TV show a bajillion times. Love them enough to make sure they're in the right car seat for their age and size. Show them you love them. Keep them safe. Visit nhtsa.gov/therightseat. Brought to you by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Ad Council. This is the Chef of Love, Chef Gennard. TV host and restaurant tour. My grandparents harvested their land to sell food and shared his overflowing bounty with our community. Grandma said, "For every yam we pick, we give one away." In the world, they cultivated our love, preparing and eating dinner with my family on Sundays. When our resources change, food assistance programs sustained us. They gave me fuel to start my first culinary business at 16 years old, an inspiration to donate the extra food in my community. Through my life, I've developed an appetite to work with others to ensure everyone has access to the nutritious food we need to thrive. Together we can help in hunger. Come on, join the movement with Feeding America by volunteering, donating and advocating. Learn more at feedinamerica.org/agnow. Brought to you by Feeding America and the Ad Council. Hello and welcome back to Bostonian Wrap. If you're just tuning in, thank you so much. If you've been with me from the top of the show, well, thank you so much. This is Rachel Meiselman and you're listening to me on WBCA LP, 102.9 FM Boston. So in the first segment of the show, I was talking about how people just really engage in a whole series of mental gymnastics in order not to sound rational, in order not to hear, not have to listen to something that they find disagreeable. And they're also, of course, the bad faith arguments that go along with all of this. So who better to talk about? Step forward, Catherine Vitaly. So I've been talking a lot about her because I think that, I think that she represents, she's, so now she's a Republican. And I think that she represents everything that we're not. I really, I really do believe that. I don't like how she behaves. And there was a time, you know, I will be honest, there was a time where I thought that she really had something to offer. But like within, like I would say two and a half, three months of meeting her, I saw a shift in behavior. And I said, yeah, this isn't, this isn't anything that's going to be conducive to getting things done. And I've just seen Catherine engage in all kinds of activity. That's really, it's really sad. It's really, really sad. And when I say sad, I don't say it is an, well, I feel bad. I feel a sense of pity. No, I just, it's sad is an, it's pathetic. And she frankly makes me sick. And I appreciate that that's strong language. But we're talking about someone who ran for the Boston City Council in 2023 is going to be running for the Boston City Council in 2025. And she has yet to drop a plan about anything. And that's because she doesn't know the issues. When you can't present a plan of any kind, you don't know the issues. I don't care what you actually say. I don't care if you're able to get through an interview, an impromptu Q&A, it'll be with a friendly reporter. But speaking broadly, the person who does not present a plan or who doesn't put forth ideas. And I mean ideas that have shape and have that have substance. We're not talking about individual individuals who know what's going on. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is. And we live in a day and age that we condone this. We condone this. And I'm sorry, when we're talking about people that want to hold office, they have to know what's going on. They do. But what Catherine wants to do is she wants to keep you entertained. She wants to keep you outraged. She wants to put on all these performances. And she's hoping that collectively we've all been so dumbed down that we're not going to realize that she doesn't know what she's talking about, that she doesn't know what she's doing, and that she has no intention of serving other people. And so I shared last week, and I've been sharing over the course of several weeks, different antics in which she's been engaging. Very recently, she engaged in more reprehensible behavior. So she was as the director, the Massachusetts director of BLEXIT, which is really kind of bankrolled by Turning Point USA. And BLEXIT, for those who don't know, it is something that has been started up. It was started up by Candace Owens and another individual, both people of color. And the idea is to get, they're both black. The idea is to get black people to leave the Democratic Party, right? So, Catherine, who has done no grassroots organization, who had not volunteered on anyone's campaign in her entire life, except for Shiva Ayadurai in 2020, she's going to somehow recruit black people to the Republican Party, please. You want to recruit black people or people of any color? Hey, have ideas. How about that, right? We always got to come back to that sooner or later. If you're talking politics, again, you either know what you're doing or you don't. There's no in-between. But what she recently did is she was in the Jamaica Plain neighborhood of Boston. And she was there with her sidekick, Sean Nelson, who of course also ran for the Boston City Council in 2023. And of course, he's going to run in 2025. And the two of them, it's just, it's become old. They go somewhere, they drive around, they look for people that they can get into confrontations with. They're aggressive toward people. They insult people. They deride people. And then when people feed into it, they respond, "Oh, out comes the camera." And it's just, it's ridiculous. So, Catherine and her buddy, Sean, who was serving as the assistant director, and I don't know why he was the director. I don't know why he wasn't. And I'm going to, I'm getting to why I'm using past tense and just in regard to these two and their relationship with Black City. I'll get to that in just a bit. But I have to say, I don't know why Sean himself, I mean, both of them had no business or have no business leading anything. But it just made no sense. Why have Catherine Vitaly? It's not like she runs with a diverse crowd. I mean, she likes to brag about how she does, but really, she actually really doesn't. And I'm pretty certain that growing up, she didn't exactly run with a diverse crowd either. So it's just, this was just, it was something that was already established. And they didn't have this group, Black City, this organization, there was no presence here. And so that's why Catherine swooped in, because it gave her a title. That's what Catherine Vitaly wants. Catherine is not interested in serving people. As I said, she's not interested in solving problems. She's not interested in improving community. She's not even interested in improving the block on which she lives. She is looking for clout. She is looking for status. She is looking to be in a position where people listen to what she says. And they do something other than laugh. She wants people to admire her, to respect her without her engaging in behavior that is respectable or admirable. So this is what's going on. But anyway, she saw having this title as a way to maybe do some traveling, which she did, and really kind of give her some kind of gravitas. And isn't that interesting? Because people like her don't think about actually doing something of substance, or paying their dues, or doing what's considered the grunt work, yet very important work on different campaigns to kind of build up her knowledge and build connections and build bridges and build relationships. She doesn't think about doing anything like that for gravitas. What she does is she runs and looks to see where she can grab a title. So that's what this was. And of course, she abused it. She abused it. So she was, she appeared in the Jamaica Plain neighborhood of Boston. She and Sean, and they got into a confrontation, a nasty confrontation with a couple of individuals. And it really, it just really kind of blew my mind to see Catherine put a video up and say, well, I was kind of hesitant on putting this up. Like she, she wrote a few lines and then, and then she, she put in that line about have, you know, being kind of hesitant about putting the video up. And it's like, who are you kidding? Who are you kidding? It's just, it's just nonstop. And it's like, look, if I want to be entertained, I'm going to get a subscription to Hulu or Netflix. I'm not going to creep Catherine Vitaly social media waiting for the next installment of her of her life. Well, long story short, it looks like Brexit does have standards, but I think it's down to turning point USA, which is really kind of, it's, it's kind of adopted, that kind of it's, it's, Brexit is kind of, at this point, I look at it as, as maybe a project, an initiative that TP USA turning point USA is now, as I said, bankrolling, but supporting and promoting as well. And apparently, people who were in the position to say, yay or nay got wind of this latest fight confrontation that Catherine and her buddy Sean were engaged in, and they were stripped of their titles. And rather than take this as an occasion for self-reflection, Catherine made a comment to the effect of, oh, well, this was a victory for the raving lunatics, the crazy left. And she said, my goodness, we're just fighting for America. And this happens to us. You know, we get stripped of our titles. Can you believe it? You know, we're no longer, we're no longer representing blacks. Can you believe this? Meanwhile, Scott Hayes, he's considered a hero and he's able to raise all kinds of money. And he was defending Israel. And so for the people who are listening, who might not be familiar with Scott Hayes, Scott Hayes is a resident, I believe a native of Massachusetts, but it ultimately doesn't matter. But I do think he's from Massachusetts. He is, yes, he's an Iraq veteran. And he's also been a beautiful, wonderful friend to the Jewish community. Scott himself is not Jewish, but he's learning, he's been learning a lot about Judaism, the faith, as well as the culture. And he's just really, you know, in our time of need, he's been very supportive. And he is very, he's a Zionist. And what he's done is he's, you know, take a leading role in organizing peaceful counter rallies or rallies in support of Israel and to really kind of engage with people. Even people who are clearly on the other side of this, of this very, very contentious topic. And I don't, I don't understand why it's contentious, but I mean, I say that not that it's surprising to me, but it's just, it's just, I find it galling. I find it incredible. But that's, that's another topic for another show. And that's certainly another theme that I have been discussing at length, another subject topic. But, but Scott, very recently in Newton at one of these peaceful rallies. And, and I know this because I've been to a couple. So I attended one and, and then there was one prior to that. There was one I attended in the Brookline town, the town of Brookline in Massachusetts. And then I had gone to the East Boston library. So East Boston, of course, for those who are less familiar with the geography, geography, rather, of this area. East Boston is the neighborhood of Boston as well, like Jamaica Plain. And I was on my way to the library. And I saw these people with flags and I said, what's this? And I started talking to people. And that's how I met Scott and all, you know, all these other people who are part of this group. And the idea is into, again, it's not to intimidate or to harass or to belittle or degrade or denigrate, but it's just to stand up for Israel and to stand up for Jewish people. And so at a recent rally in, in Newton, there was someone who is very much anti-Israel and clearly very much anti-Semitic. And I think there were some words exchanged, but I don't think that I don't even know how much, I don't even know how much, you know, how much was exchanged between the group that was there to protest, again, peacefully. And this protester, before the guy just came, barreling across the street, he tackled Scott, Scott. And I, and I talked about this, I have talked about this on the show. Scott was carrying, he has license to carry. You know, unfortunately, the gun was used. This was after Scott had been tackled. He was being strangled. The video that has been shown when Scott is finally able to stand up when this guy was finally, when they were finally able, it took several people to pull this guy off of, of Scott. He, he, Scott, that is, his neck was all red. It was just, it was, it's, it's just been a terrible, it's been a terrible time. It's been a very trying event. People want to talk about it as an issue relative to the right to carry, the Second Amendment. And it's like, no, no, no, no. Before we even get there, I mean, I support the Second Amendment, but before we even get there, this is about the right to, to, to assemble peaceably. We have that right. It's in the first constant, it's in the first amendment. I mean, if we can't gather peacefully anymore, well, that's, that's, that's, that's highly disturbing. And if we add to it that certain people are at more, are at more of a risk of getting hurt or attacked whether verbally or physically, if they do try to gather peacefully, people should be sounding the alarms. They should be yelling at the top, a top of their lungs and screaming from every rooftop. So before we even get to talking about the Second Amendment, we got to talk about that. So for those who don't know, Scott Hayes, that's, that's what's going on. The, the person who tackled him, fortunately, he is expected to survive. And the idea is for this, because both, both Scott and the man who tackled him, Caleb Ganon, they've both been charged. So the idea is for both cases to play out in court and court of law, not the court of public opinion. So that's the background on Scott Hayes for people who do not know about him. So Catherine compared the fight that she instigated one of the many, the latest, the latest in the long line of, and then finally suffering consequences for that, being stripped of her association with Blacksett. With Scott, Hayes practicing, exercising his right to gather peacefully and getting attacked, and, and I just said, are you kidding me? Oh, because he was supporting Israel. So he gets to raise all, he, he raises all this money. Are you kidding me? Scott has stuck up with the Jewish people. He's stuck up with, he is stood by our side. And so he has a lot of money has been raised, but for his legal defense, not for him to buy a invest in a summer home with legal defense. And it's not about him fighting for Israel. Yes, they were there pro-Israel, but also to stand up for the Jewish community and to take a stand against anti-Semitism and to make it safe for people who do want to support Israel. And, and for her to try to equate the two and not take any responsibility for her horrible behavior that she rightly suffered consequences for. I'm just, I'm gobsmacked. I really truly am. What a horribly bad faith argument. This is introducing these non-sequiturs. The, it's making these laughable, like unbelievably laughable, outrageous analogies. And it's just really, yes, bad faith. That's the phrase. It's, it's, it's bad faith behavior. And really the only, the only bright part, bright side or bright point in all of this is that finally, Catherine learned that you can't just do whatever you want. You can't assault a police officer because she's gotten into tussles with members of the police. You can't just instigate, try to instigate confrontations with people because not everyone's just going to walk away. And I'm not encouraging violence. It's actually quite the contrary. Why would you go out of your way? This is, this goes beyond just picking a fight. You're actually trying to harass people. This, this woman is to the point where they're going to snap back. And she's doing this to keep her name out there. And so that people will continue to talk about her. And so she can get likes and views and clicks and shares. And she can spin this as, as, as, as, as a narrative, her narrative of being this fighter for, for common sense and sanity and standing up for the political, right? Please, we don't need anybody like her. She, she, she's a bloody embarrassment. And I, and I'm glad that I'm glad that she, she finally suffered some consequences. I really, truly am. The last, I'm going to pivot once again. The last bit that I want to look at tonight is the, the substance. So I saw that movie actually the other night. And I thought, I thought it was interesting. I thought it was interesting. Some people want to say that it's, it's, it's, you know, it's a feminist movie. I'm not so sure it's, it's, it's really necessarily about that. I mean, certainly that is, you know, you have some elements where Demi Moore, she's judged harshly because she is a woman. And there's, there's, there's the scene. I don't want to spoil it for people. There's the scene, you know, after, you know, she's deemed over the hill and she, she looks great, by the way. But she, she, she's a woman in real, in real life, Demi Moore's in her early sixties and she's playing a woman, you know, who hit 50 and she, she just, she looks great. She really does. But there's the scene in the movie where, you know, the spectator is looking at all these people who make decisions about who's featured on television, who's featured, who's a star, who's, you know, who, who's worth Hollywood's time. And it's funny because they were all men and they were all older men. They were all gray-haired. And so, I mean, certainly there are instances where, yeah, sure, we, we see that they're double standards and we certainly know that in real life, we have horrible, horrible double standards, right? A woman, I'll even say that a woman for the longest, and I think even still a woman, she'd be beautiful, considered beautiful, she can be considered smart, but both, that's problematic. That's problematic. I think it's a little bit better than when I was growing up, but you can still feel it. It's still pretty, that, that neanderthal, oppressive, bigotry, bias, attitude, it's, it's still very, it's still very much exist. But I think that there were a lot of other issues that I think that this movie makes you think about. I think that it was a very thought-provoking movie. I'll, I'll, you know, I'll talk a little bit more about the substance, but certainly, I don't think it was money wasted. I enjoyed it because it also made you think about fame and celebrity and what people are willing to do to stay in the spotlight. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a Hollywood star, right? It can be a degenerate with an R after her name like Catherine Vitaly. But it's, it's, it's really what people won't do to be loved and what people won't do to be admired. And when I say loved and admired, I don't mean being supported by someone or working to do something exceptional, worthy of, of praise. I'm talking about people looking for lavish over-the-top praise. I'm talking about people who want to be in a room and they want all eyes on them. I mean, we have a lot of people today that can't stand the idea of going into a room and just having a seat, like literally take it a seat and just hey, listening. We have people who have a problem with going into a room, walking into a room and not consuming any more oxygen than, than anybody else. We have people that need to be the center of attention. And I think that that's certainly something. I think that's certainly also an issue that comes up. And it kind of makes you think, right, beyond the movie, like what are people willing to do to stay in the spotlight? What do people usually do? So just talking about Vitaly and her friend Sean Nelson, and they're willing to engage in fights. And from a purely pragmatic point of view point of just a safety issue, it's just one cannot just go around and try to initiate confrontations, which is just it can't be done, or it can. But at one point, heaven forbid, it could very possibly end with someone getting hurt. And I'm speaking broadly, because anyone who engages in this behavior, it can. And of course, none of us want to see anyone getting hurt, but it's just it's just something that this segment of the population insists on doing. And again, I don't, I find Vitaly's views, everything from engaging this behavior to denying that the Holocaust happened, I find her absolutely reprehensible. Does that mean I want her to get hurt? I do have to wonder what she's thinking, though, putting herself in harm's way. I have to wonder. And it's just, I have to wonder about anybody who is going to engage in behavior that's quite frankly not healthy. And so why is it that people are more interested in being noticed and talking than being a part of something and just listening? That's what that's what we have to ask ourselves. But yeah, I'll talk more about the substance because I found it very interesting for a lot of reasons. That's all I have time for tonight. Thank you so much for listening as always. And I look forward to hanging out with you next week. The preceding commentary does not necessarily reflect the views of the staff and management of WBCA or the Boston Neighborhood Network. If you would like to express another opinion, you can address your comments to Boston Neighborhood Network, 302-5 Washington Street, Boston, Massachusetts, 02119. To arrange a time for your own commentary, you can call WBCA at 617-708-3215 or email radio@bnnmedia.org. [BLANK_AUDIO]