The Essential Training Podcast
Ep 36 - Irish with Mollie
What’s the link between language learning and coaching?
What ways can we celebrate and support the Irish language?
How can business, passion and service intersect to create a win-win-win scenario?
Mollie teaches the Irish language online to over 220k people across all of her social media platforms.
We discuss her career journey into teaching and eventually teaching Irish, then moving her business online, transferring to online courses and ultimately to the community model she now runs.
It was fascinating and inspiring to speak to Mollie about her passion for the language, for facilitating learning and growth for her students and for her passion for what she does.
I was so impressed by the articulate and well-informed way that Mollie approaches her craft. This is a wonderful episode for any business owner, trailblazer or just anyone interested in some concepts important to learning something new.
Check out Irish with Mollie on Instagram and TikTok!
Check us out at essentialtraining.ie, Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/essentialtraining
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/essential-training/
Thanks to our sponsors Fad Saoil Saunas! https://fadsaoilsaunas.ie/
We hope you enjoyed! Speak soon!
Brian and Ian
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
- Broadcast on:
- 19 Sep 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
(upbeat music) - Hello and welcome to the Essential Training Podcast with me, Brian Kingston, and my dad, Ian Kingston. In this space and through our work, we get to chat with ordinary people who have extraordinary stories. - Our hope is that through listening to these conversations, we get to reflect on the stories we tell ourselves and unlock more of our own potential. - Thanks for listening and we hope you enjoy. (upbeat music) - This episode is brought to you by Fad Sale Saunas. Fad Sale is the Irish for long life and they were Ireland's first commercial Saunas service set up in 2019. Their mission is to communicate, educate, inspire people on the benefits of Sauna and coal bathing. And their vision is to enhance the wellbeing of the people of Ireland and further afield and to give people more healthy lifestyle choices. They have locations in Greystones, Galway, and Clantar Rugby Club in Ireland. And I am a regular user of the Sauna. I go down once or twice a week. They're only down the road from us. And they have set up an amazing community there where you've got the Sauna, you've got Rise of the Cove Coffee, right in the midst of Tiglin, which is Ireland's oldest addiction treatment center clinic. So you've got a real mix of people and mindsets. And I go down there, I spend 50 minutes in the Sauna, step outside, cool down, go back for another 15 minutes. And then I usually pop down to the sea, spend a couple of minutes in the sea, depending on how brave I feel that day. And afterwards, I always feel rejuvenated, energized. And sometimes I'll pop in for a coffee at Rise of the Cove. And I just love bumping into people down there. And there's an amazing community. And Steve says this and I felt it as well. It's kind of like the vibe of a pub without alcohol. You go down with friends, you can go down alone, you can bump into people, you can stay on your own. And it's just this amazing vibe and amazing community of people. So we're so happy to be sponsored by FODSail and long may it last. And we're excited to see where this partnership goes. So thanks Steve and your team for FODSail Saunas for sponsoring the podcast and go check them out on their Instagram or their website. - This week, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Molly from Irish with Molly, who's an Irish teacher online, has been teaching Irish for over 11 years and has over 220,000 followers on social media. I've seen her videos on Instagram and TikTok and love what she's doing for the Irish language. And we did an amazing conversation around entrepreneurship, language learning and the connection between learning something new and the concept of coaching, guiding, mentoring. We talked about the Irish language and our shame around the Irish language, how to overcome that shame. We talked around post-colonial mindsets. We talked about shaping and forming a business differently to work better both for the business owner and for the customer and for finances. So it's a really wide-ranging conversation as these conversations tend to be. And I was fascinated by Molly's journey and also her take on business and her passion while also getting some lovely tidbits on Irish language. So enjoy this conversation with Molly and Molly, thanks for coming on and I hope you enjoy. - Molly, great to have you here. - Delighted to be here. Thank you for having me, Brian. - You're very welcome on the essential training podcast. I always feel very official when I say that. And I was talking to my mom before this interview and she's like, so who are you having on today? You know, she's always very interested. And I was saying, oh, her name's Molly. She teaches Irish online. She's like, I've seen her on TikTok, right? So you have broken through to mom talk which is a powerful place to be. - They're there, you know? The other day someone said to me, people don't think that women of a certain age are on social media, but they are. They're not really contributing, but they're watching and they're learning. - Getting like the temperature of things and what's going on and so, you know, you're famous in our house and yeah, I think it would be nice to hear for our audience if you could say a little bit about what you do and for anybody who hasn't heard of you before, just to kind of kick off our conversation. - Absolutely, yeah. So I am an Irish teacher, Irish with Molly online. So I post every day on Instagram and TikTok. I have reels about etymology. I love going into Hiberno English and why we speak the way we do in Ireland. So I'm realizing more and more, we're really speaking Irish using English words and this is how the Irish preserved the language through generations of colonization, oppression, modernization, urbanization and all these different factors that have led to our language being endangered. And I studied English at Trinity. I didn't really know what I was going to do with my career, my life, but I've always loved reading and writing. I got a job in communications actually and then another friend said, do you want to be a pony girl at a camp in the Swiss Alps? And I was like, yes, I do. Off I went, I became a Zumba teacher. I was teaching English online and in language academies all around the world. I sailed around the world on the Peace Boat, which is a UN sponsored NGO fostering conflict resolution and peace studies. You'd love it, Brian, check it out. But it was really interesting how the more time I spent away from Ireland, I always felt very attached to Ireland despite traveling and I lived in the Basque country and Hungary and Andalusia and Portugal. But I always felt like I wasn't really away from home and teaching English as a foreign language. I did the SELTA. I have a Cambridge qualification in teaching and I felt like this is creative and interesting. This can actually enable me to teach anything. Like when you break down a language or even any concept, there are ways of making it more digestible, accessible, inclusive, fun, invigorating, even incorporating a bit of Zumba into the bit of a hand though, three. So my grandmother was in a nursing home at the time and her health was failing. She was in her 90s for a play tour and she was a quail gore. She had cycled around Ireland. She was working for Onoega, the hostile company or organization and calling her on the phone was quite difficult because she was getting so deaf and I switched to Irish one day and like, I, you know, I did well in Irish at school because I went to the Guailtux but I never really felt connected, rooted in the language. Like a lot of people, it was an exam subject and I was just memorizing things. But talking to her in Irish was like, wow, she's able to hear me. It cut through the deafness and I was teaching on this platform and they said, oh, you're Irish, can you teach Irish? And I was like, I don't know who wants to learn Irish and also by the way in Ireland, like not everyone speaks Irish. It's a complicated story there. And then I realized there's loads of people all over the world who want to learn Irish. I upped my game, started studying more and teaching people all over the place. The pandemic hit, I was back-to-back lessons every day like teaching 16 lessons a day, realizing, I want to kind of expand this to a wider audience, you know, reach more people and have a different kind of model of how I work because that was completely exhausting but also I was teaching the same things again and again. So yeah, I set up Irish with Molly and it's grown legs. Here we are. - This ends like a random question. Where do you think of the name Irish with Molly? You know, yoga with Adrian. - Yes. - I was kind of like, make it like yoga with Adrian but it's Irish with Molly, you know. - Got it, got it, got it. - And the thing is, a lot of people were like, what about Guylga Lemorin or Guylga Lemali? Good points. But at the end of the day to be even more inclusive and, you know, we call the language Irish in Ireland when speaking English. And Guylga is great but I think it does, it probably does limit your account if it's global and people, a lot of people, as you know, they think Irish is called Gaelic. That's confusing because there are three Gaelic languages, Scottish Gaelic, Manx and Irish. So yeah, I think Irish with Molly also since I love exploring Irishness. So on my own podcast, it's about, you know, about the dynamic new formats in which people are bringing this zest to Irishness. So it works. - And probably tell, taught Anna all his arm right now, right? Because I am just, there's so many things you said that I'd love to dig into and it makes me very happy that we're having this conversation. And I never thought that starting this podcast, which kind of has a prism through business, would bring us to a conversation like this, which I'm so passionate about. So I'm just trying to figure out where to tap into here to ask you because, well, first of all, Irish with Molly makes sense because who are you promoting to, who are you selling to? You're selling to English speakers. So you're far more likely for them to understand, for people to understand what you're doing by speaking in English. So that's one thing that I grab onto straight away. And we find that in our business all the time is, I need to speak the language of my customer for them to understand what it is that I'm doing. Secondly, and this may derail our whole conversation to this topic alone, but Guelga and Dad and I were speaking about this before our chat is there is sometimes a protection of the language. And I don't know where that comes from or what groups of people do it, but it's kind of like, this is real Irish and I'm a real Guelga or Irish speaker and you're not. And I wonder could you speak on a little bit about that as well? - Mm-hmm, yeah, you know, I think growing through this journey and even touching on business, like you say, a lot of people are asking me about the Irish language, etymology, the history and status of the language, but it's a whole kind of broad story about the culture and yeah, my business growing into what it has become and why, because people are craving authentic community, niche, community, connection, identity and heritage, but I think you're right that a lot of things that I felt held me back or that I was nearly ashamed about, there's a lot of shame around the language are actually really my strengths, you know, and it's taken a long time to get to that place. So for example, my surname doesn't sound or look Irish, it's Gidra and it is an Irish surname, Nikyodra, but even the way it looks Gidra looks Spanish or something, I thought, oh, people will think this or people won't take me seriously as an Irish teacher. I didn't grow up in the Gueltats, I don't come from an Irish-speaking family, like my family speak Irish, but they didn't raise me through Irish, I didn't go to a Guel school, you know, I basically unraveled the way I had been taught and applied to the rules that I was using teaching English and I absolutely in love with teaching. I love being part of someone's journey, you know, when we've spoken about this, getting to know your clients, getting to know students, just being like, I'm invested in your progress and with you every step of the way, so I feel like a language parent to them. But yeah, it's been interesting in that those things have made me more relatable and people go, anyone can do it, it's few, August is fajored, it's worth it and you can do it. And when you think about the kind of gatekeeping of the language, it makes no sense, it is listed as definitely endangered on the UNESCO Atlas of World Languages. If someone says, that's not how we say it here, okay, curricular, you know, every country has different accents and different dialects, in fact, I would say there are as many dialects as speakers of the language to quote Jerry Kelly, an educator. It's like, there is so much judgment and shame, and I think, turn that noira into goira, you know, turn that shame into laughter, and learning Irish and embracing the mistakes and the awkwardness and that kind of exercise and humility, that unshackles you from the shame and the judgment. And now I'm, you know, I'm feeling, it's okay, you can call yourself a Guilgore. If you're celebrating the Irish language, if you're learning, if you're speaking Irish, just a couple of words, no matter what it is, it's not your fault that you didn't grow up in the Guiltacht. All of Ireland was the Guiltacht in the past, and it's not our fault that we didn't grow up as fluent Irish speakers. - Whose fault is it, Molly? - No. (laughs) - Shinsuke Lele, that's another story. (laughs) - Yeah, the term, you know, releasing ourselves from the shackles of the shame of the language, I mean, that's a very poignant term. And another thing he said, you know, making mistakes, I mean, I speak Spanish, and even it feels awkward saying that because I always feel like I'm learning, you know, and I can always be improving, but like I do. And the biggest thing that got me through many stages of learning Spanish was making mistakes all the time and being okay with making mistakes. And I was such a perfectionist growing up. I, as a kid, I wouldn't even try anything that I wasn't good at, and it held me back so much. And then when I got into my twenties, and I went through like a big identity shift, and I was kind of like searching for who I was, it freed me up to do lots of things that I wasn't good at. And it's such a powerful lesson, I think, for anything is to be okay not being good at stuff because that's an important part of picking up anything new. - Definitely, yeah, 100%. I noticed with my students, the ones who put themselves out there, you know, right in the group every day, make mistakes, leave a voice note, get corrected, embrace the corrections, you know, they're the ones who flourish. They're accelerating, they're learning because they're so kind of ripe and open to the portal of discovery. James Joyce said that mistakes are the portals of discovery. Yeah, and you know, it's true. If you don't make, the biggest mistake is not learning anything from it, that just make your mistakes. At the end of the day, I think learning is really about confidence and community. You know, and fluency is a myth. It's not overnight that it happens, so don't give up. I'm always telling people it's about patience, perseverance, practice, method, mindset, and motivation. Because believing that you can learn or that you can do anything in your career, in your business, that's the hurdle. And then you do it. You know, there's hard work involved, it's not a miracle, but accept, believe it. There's a real tangible connection here between the passion that I hear you have for education in general and what we do as coaches and facilitators with individuals and teams. Because what got to add into doing this 30 years ago, coming from banking and teaching in people in banking, head to self insurance, what he realized he really liked was showing people they could do stuff that they never thought they'd be able to do. And seeing that light bulb, seeing that penny drop. And I know that even with my clients now, even yesterday we had a coaching session we'd done about three or four now, and there was a moment in the conversation where they had to dig really, really deep. And I had to be really, really silent to allow them to come to that whatever insight they were coming to. And when you said like, I'm their language parent, what I hear is like guide and mentor and hand holder into the language, which is very similar to what we're doing with people because people come to us because they feel like they can get more out of themselves, life can be more fulfilling, their business can be more successful and not as stressful. And it's our job to show them that it's possible and kind of hold their hand through that. And sometimes it takes a little knowledge, sometimes it takes a little pullback. It's kind of that delicate balance. - I agree. And I think that word you use, the light bulb, that is just the magnet for people who love what they do. They want to be shining a light, illuminating things, teaching. You know, at the end of the day, coaching and guiding. It is really about lighting up something that people didn't see, that they might have said, I'm too old, I'm too thick, I'm too this, it's not gonna happen. And you're saying, let me show you the way. Here it is. This works, believe me, let's go. - People in my life that have made a massive impact on me are people that saw something in me before I could see it in myself. And in a sense, that's what you're doing. - Yeah. You know, you hear so many stories about people who say, "Oh, I was learning Irish "and the teacher just threw words at me "and I didn't know what was going on "and I spent loads of money on this." And then I couldn't get through it and I had no one to ask questions to and so on. And it's like, what you need is someone who is not giving up on you, encouraging you, supporting you, cheerleading you, and notices that anyone can do this, you know? Someone wrote me an email today about why is Irish like pronounced so differently to how it's spelled? I can't find this answer anywhere. And I was saying, it's perfectly exactly written the way it's pronounced. The only reason we think it's not is because of our English-centric minds. Like the word ballet in Spanish, meaning okay. Why isn't it pronounced veil? It looks like veil, V-A-L-E. Because it's a different language, you know? And I think it's about opening that door and being like, it's a code to crack, but it's absolutely possible and worth it. And easier than kind of faking it the whole time. - Yeah, like if you take the Irish name Nii, for example, N-I-M-H, a native English speaker will say like, "Niamhah" or something. Because they're using their English-centric mindset to look at an Irish word and there's different rules. And I saw it on your Instagram and one of the things I really liked that you said was, how inconsistent English is in their rules and how consistent Irish is in its rules. - Yeah. - Which is such an oxymoron to kind of how we operate in the world. Like Irish people love to break and bend rules and to have a bit of crack and this stereotype of England is its order and stuff. But the language is completely set different. - True, true. I saw another creator during the week saying that, "Berela", you know, the word for English, comes from the word "bail", meaning mouth because the words are kind of produced in our mouth. But "Gleilge" really seems to come from the soul and the heart. And a lot of my students and followers will say, "I don't know what you're saying, but my heart understands." Or when they're learning, they say, "It's like I'm remembering more than learning, more than learning for the first time." - Yeah, I mean, I get shivers when you say that. I literally got shivers there because when I hear Irish music and a beautiful Shanno song or like we both know Ava McMahon, when she, you know, she sings the song or has a Celtic World Forum the other week. And sometimes I don't have a clue what they're saying, but I can feel the meaning behind it and something in my body reacts. And that's why I keep just being drawn to Irish music because there's something, and you know, my last name's Kingston. So my family, my ancestors, came over with the Cranwellian Plantation in like the 17th century to West Cork. There's a big Kingston kind of stronghold of names around West Cork. And that's something that I've gone through a process of self-discovery with because I feel so Irish, but my last name's Kingston. And I grew up in Dublin, which is the Pale. So people in rural Ireland would see me as like a West Brit, for example. And then you got my South Dublin accent, which is also seen as maybe more British than Irish, but I feel so Irish. And that was a real theme in the Celtic World Forum. Like a lot of American singers who sing in Irish had this sense that they weren't truly Irish. And even me, I sometimes, when I was abroad and speaking about Ireland, I sometimes didn't feel truly Irish, which I think is something to really, another thing to release shackles from. Yeah, definitely. I think a lot of people feel that. You know, even like I mentioned, which can I do this? You know, am I allowed? Is it only for a specific group of people who grew up through the language? It's their first language, et cetera? I think thankfully the world is changing. And, you know, social media and different kind of platforms are democratizing the language and saying, you can be from anywhere. You can be, you know, a Polish person who moves in and becomes fluent and starts teaching the language. Like I think the minister for the Gueiltacht was a Russian guy a few years ago who was like completely fluent, you know, super expert on the language. And a lot of my students feel that not being Irish enough or believing their whole life, they're Irish, proudly so. And then coming to Ireland and realizing, wait, you guys don't think I'm Irish? And then, you know, Irish people having this chip on their shoulder, no, you're not as Irish as me because you didn't have Tato Crisps as a child in the pub with the Rock Shandy and da, da, da. And it's like, I saw a really beautiful speech, this guy on TikTok. Can I call it a speech? He was saying, it's about Duchus, which is like origin or the respect you have for your culture and ancestry, that it's more about understanding, like going to the Celtic World Forum, like connecting with Channos, feeling it and having respect for it. Because I think a lot of people are averse. They're quite reticent about embracing it because, you know, maybe you hear me on this, like in the 90s, when we were growing up and the 90s, there was a kind of like America is cool. Like, you know, the UK is cool. All the music was coming from there. Like, we wanted forbies and all these toys and eating pop tarts and listening to top of the pops or whatever. I would call it bitch and all that stuff. Yeah. And then we had this kind of mockery of Irish music and things like, oh, the old did lie as if it was something embarrassing and not worth enjoying. Yeah, there's so much there. I mean, I was even watching a guy on YouTube talking, living in America. And when he was growing up, he used to answer his phone to his parents and whispers because they would speak to him in Irish because he was so ashamed being in a school in Ireland with Irish people, but it just so wasn't cool. No? And the thing you were saying about Duchas and Arjun and connection and that whole I-rolling thing of Americans coming over saying, I'm Irish and then Irish people kind of rolling their eyes, it was only after living in Canada for four or five years and coming back, did I really see the importance of anybody connecting with their heritage, no matter where that is, for their sense of self. And that this is what I was actually gonna say earlier, so I'm glad we kind of got around to it was my connection with Irishness sometimes doesn't feel a connection with nationhood, like a connection with nationalism. And that's something that I hope for us as a nation, is our Irishness can move beyond not Englishness and it can move to a deeper connection of something more ancient. - Yes, well said. Yeah, I think Douglas Hyde said something, he's has a great quote, I'll send it to you about that, that celebrating Irishness is not about hating the English. It's about our own depth of and richness of culture and the land and the landscape and the people and our stories and our songs. Yeah, and I think it's really beautiful to see different versions of Irishness emerging and people celebrating that like I interviewed Leon Gee-up recently of Black and Irish and a few other people who, yeah, they recognize their Irishness in a different way, in a beautiful way. It doesn't mean one thing for everyone. - Yeah. - Yeah. I'd love to explore a little bit about your journey from individual coaching to the setup you have now. And why I'd like to do that is because my background is in tech and in online courses. So I worked with a lot of coaches and educators and consultants who had a similar challenge to you is they were making a lot of impact, but exchanging their time for money meant that there was only so many hours in a day and it limited the reach that they could have with this thing that they were passionate to educate about. So it seems like that was a similar motivation for you to evolve your business into the model it is now. And I'm wondering, can you just describe it a little bit about that? - Definitely, yeah, I was teaching in schools. So it was a bit of a, yeah, constantly evolving journey. First of all, being a teacher in language schools in international house, which is a English language, actually they teach other languages too, but a language academy around the world. And realizing like you're under a lot of pressure, it's a bit, not just that school. I think a lot of language schools are a bit twisted where you have to give the students a lower mark in September than Christmas and then a higher mark. So it seems we've done a great job, haven't we? And you're really poorly paid. Everyone there is paying a lot of money and the teachers scraping by. And even if you make it to director of studies level, the top of the school, like the principal, it's not that big an increase and your job changes. And I love the classroom so much, I love the energy there. And so I thought, I'd like more flexibility. I'd like more autonomy. So I went teaching one to ones. So I was teaching on Italki, which is a language platform. And it opened a few doors for me. I mean, I'm very grateful. It allowed me to speak at the Polyglot Conference in Japan one year about the Irish language. They're great advocates of endangered minority vulnerable languages. I met Richard Simkos, who is a polyglot who speaks over 50 languages. And he's brilliant. And then they also asked me if I could speak Irish. So I feel like, you know, everything makes sense backwards. And that kind of led me into Irish teaching. But teaching one to ones, you're right. It's very limited. I still wasn't making much money. It was all, you know, very heart led. Even raising my prices by one euro or one dollar would kill me. I was like, no, I'm gonna lose all my students. And I had the relationships with my students. People do all over the world and they really see me as family. You know, they would say, especially during COVID, Molly, you're like our family coming into our house. And most of them I've never met in real life. But teaching one to ones was really exhausting and a bit frustrating in that way that you're giving, giving, giving all day long. You're re-teaching the same stuff. Your students are paying actually quite a high price for one to one lessons. You know, it could be 40 euro, 50 euro, up to 80 euro for a lesson. But you don't have access to the teacher outside of lessons. So you might see them once a week. The model I have now is like, win, win, win, win. You know, people sign up for a course. They get lifetime access. There are recorded materials on demand. They can access on any device at any time. It's self paced so they can slow down the videos, speed them up and fast forward, rewind, rewatch everything. And they have my daily support. So they can reach out anytime with a question or a comment, ask for help editing, contact me, listen to voice notes. And then our community is massive. So we've over 5,000 students now all over the world. And the community is growing, you know, and really supportive of each other. So people will ask questions there. So it's beautiful that you can be even more generous. You can even give more when you have a business model that works for you. Because for example, I've started doing weekly live lessons. And this wasn't part of the package when they signed up. And this is clearly a huge element of my time and energy and creative power. And I'm there in person online. And some students are like, oh, wow, this is extra. You know, we really appreciate this. Can we contribute to like, do you have Patreon or buy me a coffee or whatever? And I'm like, no, it's okay. You know, it all works. It's like something you want to give and you can, thankfully, I'm so grateful. Like, it's a very fulfilling, privileged position to be able to teach and, you know, and make a living and make it your life and feel like it is a dream, you know, that's just growing. - Yeah, there's so much there. Very, very well explained. I mean, I'm getting a sense of your entrepreneurship and ingenuity and go-gettleness. I mean, I can imagine lots of people stick doing the lessons for their life and they're happy doing that or maybe give up because they realize that teaching isn't going to give them the lifestyle that they want. So it's just very commendable to see, to hear getting to a point where you can make it like this. And I think it's very relevant for our show because this is through the prism of business, through a business ownership, through leading ourselves, leading people. And what we, when we were chatting before and as we're chatting now, something that's really coming up that's big for me at the moment is I'm passionate about what I do and also charging what I'm worth or what the service is worth. And it's very interesting to hear how you've structured in a way where you get your time back, your students get more value and you also have enough emotional energy to go above and beyond that as well. It's such a creative way of doing things. Yeah, it's really interesting. - Yeah, you know, I think as you know well, a lot of it comes from the risk you take and just throwing everything you have in, like being fully there because there really is no shortcut or no, there's a lot of luck involved obviously and love that comes from supportive people in our lives, but you know, it is a big step, I think, for a lot of people to leave what they're doing and start something new or change their business model completely. You know, leaving my one-to-one students was actually really hard and emotional and a lot of them felt I was abandoning them. And now, thankfully, they were all very supportive and they're saying like, "Oh, I love to see what you're doing. I can't believe it, like my teacher. Now I get to see you every day." You know, they see a lot more of me. But it is very interesting, I think marrying entrepreneurship with teaching or education, teachers are generally, you know, not business-minded, I would say, not focused on their income. I mean, they are because they're so badly paid, generally. And they generally don't ask for what they're worth because they teach for a school and they do it with all the love in their heart. You know, and a lot of business people have this too. They love what they do and they want to offer a service or a product, but they might not know how to market it or how to put it out there. This is what I'm charging. So yeah, I think it's interesting. - What are some of those things that you did to make those shifts and make those progresses? - I think, yeah, that's a great question. I think fully trusting the process, like whether or not this works, I'm gonna have all of my expertise condensed into 50 or 70 hours of video that I can preserve for future generations. So even if I'm not paid for a year, you know, I had very little savings. I wasn't earning much at all. You know, I never really was career-focused. I was traveling, enjoying life, kind of always learning, always teaching. And like I mentioned to you before, I never saw myself as a business person. I still don't really, you know, I'm still kind of allergic to sales, but I realize it's growing the Irish language. It's working towards the greater good and it's helping people really achieve their dreams. And that's the main goal. Even when people say, you know, I, you know, something has come up and I need a refund or something, I'll be like, I really want you to learn, just, you know, keep going. And it's just like, it's really so close to my heart, this project. - Well, it sounds like a few times you've mentioned it and kind of alluded to it, the importance of connecting with that deep-rooted purpose of what you're doing, to keep going in tough times, to keep going through adversity, and also to connect you deeply with your mission when commercials become involved, because it kind of help you overcome the kind of ickiness that a lot of us feel with the money situation. - Yeah. And I wonder is it also inherently Irish, this kind of being mortified about being confident about anything, about selling yourself, selling your business. You know, people might think you have notions and yet you are confident about what you're creating. You know the value of it. You know, people don't appreciate things when it's free. Also, I do a lot of free teaching, a lot. I mean, every single day, I'm creating content for free. And that's a joy as well. And I think it's, yeah, I suppose it's about becoming comfortable with what is right for you and what aligns with your values. And it has to be truthful and people feel that. People really say, she's genuine. She's got a product and a service that actually works. She really believes it. - Yeah, you can see that come through and even speaking today, like your passion for education in general and the Irish language and your connection with it. And I'd love to hear a little bit about, because you mentioned Irishness and that mortification we have with valuing ourselves sometimes, which I wonder, can we also put that on the English? No, I wonder, is there also a post-colonial mindset there of valuing ourselves and standing up and putting ourselves above the parapet? And I think it's very relevant for you as someone who has 175,000 followers on Instagram, a collective following of, I don't know, multiple hundreds of thousands of people, lots of eyeballs on you all the time. - How was that process in coming to be that, "Oh, more okay with putting yourself out there"? - Yeah, great question. It's been interesting, 'cause in the beginning, I was like, I don't really want to show my face that much. I'm actually quite a private person. And thankfully, it's been pretty positive. I think, you know, I've always loved reading and like going deep into self-development and these kinds of things. And I remember reading something like, the only thing, you know, that's not cringy is being completely yourself. People will just see that. And I think when you know someone's being fake or they're trying too hard, they get slagged, you know, they get criticized. But even if you're goofy, even if you make mistakes or you're a bit too much, you're hyper, you're whatever, people seem to respect that you are loving what you're doing and people are really resonating with this non-threatening moonshore, you know, they're like, wow, you really make me feel like I can do it. You're not like the nun in my school. And interestingly, yeah, I realized in terms of branding and business, showing your face and being there consistently, showing up, working really hard, producing things, giving a lot of value, makes a massive difference. People generate that trust and they're like, oh, I see you all the time, my kids love your videos, my aunt, I'm sending these to my aunt, blah, blah, blah. So it's much more than just your voice or you're an AI generated voice or you're just worksheets, like it's your name and your face. Of course, it has been difficult because I think it's strange, you know, and I'm not an influencer per se, like I don't promote products that I don't believe in. I never get paid for promoting things. I don't show my body much, my lifestyle, my routine, my diet, anything like that. And I like that balance. It's like, this is about learning Irish. This is about willing the movement forward. And it's not really about me at the end of the day. It's about everyone who's ever campaigned for our native indigenous language and bringing people together, uniting hinkers and, you know, poets, philosophers, historians, creative people to say like language loss is devastating. Let's look at what we have here and look after it. - Yeah, I mean, I love the work of Mancon McGahn. I love what he shares in social media. I love his documentaries, his Irish Almanac podcast. I'm a huge fan of, I wish he did more of them. And living in Canada, he was a big breath of life for me watching his stuff throughout COVID. And he's doing it. And, you know, he made a lot of mistakes along the way as well. Like he did that documentary years ago where he was kind of trying to speak Irish people on the street in Dublin and it was a bit of a, it was a bit of a, it didn't have the right flavor. You know, it was kind of showing up, how showing us up, whereas now he more champions. And I love the stuff he does with the sea tamagotchi. He goes around to all different parts of Ireland, Western because Ireland picks up words and keeps the words alive. And then the kneecap movie, which came out recently, could you talk about that a little bit? - Yeah, I absolutely loved it. It blew me away. You know, it was much better than I expected. And I had high hopes. I think it is such a beautiful representation of just living the language. You know, they say, we're not trying to make it cool. It is cool. You know, wouldn't it be interesting to do our music through Irish, to do the film in Irish? You know, they have a different angle on it in a way where when I hear them say that, I go, oh, I'm actually always saying, it's cool, isn't it? It's cool. And I'm like, no, we're just doing what we're doing here. But you're right. There are so many brilliant advocates for the language. And actually, it will change people's mind. People have an idea that Guilgore are snobby and closed. And of course, there's a few like that, but there are actually way more people without Fuckel-A-Wine, without one word who drag it down every single day saying, oh, you're better off learning Arabic or, you know, we speak English in Ireland or anything like that. So you can't win. You know, I remember saying to someone or I said that my parents said, you can't make everyone happy or there's no point trying to make everyone happy. You can't please everyone. And someone else said to me, oh, my parents would never say that. And I said, why not? Thinking like, oh, your parents must be way more ambitious than mine or something. And then he goes, because that's not the goal. Like, why would you want to please everyone? That's impossible. And not something worth going for. I was thinking, interesting. - Yeah, that's, you know, try to be everything to everybody. You'll be nothing to know about you, that's-- - Shine, that's it. And I'm sad to look at the clock to know that we're kind of coming towards the end, not the end, but towards the end of our conversation. And there's one of my best friends that keeps going to put my mind as we speak, who is very intelligent, very successful in his career and has a lot of shame that he doesn't speak Irish. And I wonder if you could speak to him now. And I can see him beating himself with the stick of, he doesn't speak the language. What are some of the things that you'd say to him? - Well, first of all, I would say it's worth it and you can do it. It's about stepping into another realm in a way. It sounds a bit wishy-washy, but it's kind of like you don't even necessarily need your Irish to be better than to just speak it, live it, own it. You know, it's latte, it's yours. And the pillars of language acquisition are usage and recall. So start really slow, start by just saying slawn, like goodbye, the thrill of the slawn. See what happens. It is terrifying, like, you know, saying slawn or saying gurve mahoguts. Thank you at passport control or in a shop or whatever. But like, start small, challenge yourself. Just say, once a day, even if it's just to my family, you know, I'll just say slawn or gurve mahoguts, it will honestly tap into your neural pathways and make it easier. It's about hearing it in your voice, in your ears, seeing it in your handwriting. At the end of an email, say, grower, more, big love, or, you know, I have lots of different things on my Instagram, you can say, like, legach, jagui, with every good wish. And I think just seeing it and using it helps you. Also, recall. So when you're looking at something like a bottle of water, you're like, budgeal, is bottle, what's water, ishka? Just kind of trying to recall, it's great for stretching and challenging the brain. But in terms of that noira, that shame that we have, everyone has it. I meet people who were Irish teachers themselves, and it's like they're intimidated or overwhelmed, or they say, oh, I'm out of practice, and I am like, do you mind if we do this through English? Because they feel like they need to be perfect. There is no such thing as perfect. There's no such thing as fluent in three months. All these, it's not true. Like, maybe if you went, even, I think, even if you went to the Guayletown, and only spoke Irish from scratch and lived your life and listened to the music, and even still, are you going to learn every single word in the language? No, I have a degree in English. I've been speaking English since I started speaking. I read and write in English. I love the English language. Do I know every word? No, I'm constantly finding new words that I've never even heard before, and I'm excited to learn them. So it's like a yoga teacher said to me recently, we're balancing in tree pose. You're never fully balanced. You're always in the act of balancing. And that's why you come to yoga. There's fun in that. You're never going to be perfect. I speak to people who you might think are fluent, and they're not. People speak to me probably thinking, oh, she probably has perfect Irish. She's probably really eloquent, really articulate. No, everyone makes mistakes. Everyone's trying their best. And it's such a joy. It's so worth it. Even if it's broken. Even if people can't really understand, it's about kindness, confidence, patience, community. Because fluency creeps up on you. When you least expect it, you'll realize, wow, I understood every word of that. Or look, I'm writing an email. I'm not even thinking. I'm just writing the email in Irish to Mankon McGahn. This is madness. And it doesn't take that long. It's just about investing your time, absorbing, being kind with yourself a bit like anything. You know, you can do it. And that is a bit of a theme of our conversation. And when we chatted before, self-compassion piece, I don't know if this is a generational thing or something that I'm just coming to in the last few years, but I'm learning how important self-kindness is, self-patient, self-compassion, self-love is to do lots of things. And I hear that kind of seeping through your philosophy on teach matters. - Definitely. - Absolutely, you know, I guess, I don't know, a hundred emails a day or more, I don't know, so many comments, all these people. And a lot of the learning process is about undoing the shame and the trauma and the guilt and the regret that people have. But back to your question. - Yeah, you can feel someone's attitude. People might say, oh, yeah, Molly, I really enjoyed your workshop, but, you know, I just can't learn things, I'm just really slow. And I'm like, you're telling yourself on truths, you're writing your own narrative, you're basically making up excuses. And an excuse in Irish is, lechgeil, meaning, lechgeil, a half story. It's not the full story, it's a half story. Like when you say, excuse me, come a lechgeil, you're really saying, take my half story. So Irish is so honest, you know. But I mean, you'll notice with all these thousands of people I'm dealing with, it's the ones who say, oh, I'm, you know, they're honest with themselves. Oh, I was struggling, I found that challenging, but I'm really here for it. It's a lifelong dream for me, so happy to be here. I learned this today, I'm so happy with myself. You know, I'm celebrating that. Even if it's one phrase, one sound, it's really about consistency and gratitude. And like you said, self-compassion, being proud of ourselves, you know, don't be so hard. That's what got us into this Irish trauma in the first place. - What, being hard in ourselves. - Yeah, or other people being hard on us, you know, and kind of, it's so punitive and illogical. Like, you know, our ancestors were beaten for speaking Irish. And I was sent home from the Guail Talk for speaking English. And there was no winning. It's like now people saying, oh, my teacher kicked me out of the class because I couldn't write the essay. Maybe you didn't get enough support, you know, or I have dyslexia, so I can't learn. Yes, you can, you learned English. You know, language is culture. It's not an exam subject. - Mm, the stick that was used against us, we used on ourselves thinking that that was the way to educate. Reminds me of my grandad being taught to write with his right hand, even though he's left-handed, because of the education system that we had. There's so much there in what you're saying. A big theme of our podcast over the last 30, 40 episodes has been the stories that we tell ourselves. We almost changed the name of the podcast. I think Dad, if he had his way, would change the name of the podcast to the stories that we tell ourselves. - I love that. - And every time I tell people, they say, that's a great, that's a great idea. And I don't know why we haven't, but the less scales, is that what it was? Less scale? - Yeah, so, less scale is an excuse. L-E-I-S-C-E-F-A-L, and it comes from la, L-E-A-T-H, meaning half, and scale, meaning story. So, a big part of the work that we do, both with teams and with individuals, and we've had to do it on ourselves too, is break through the unhelpful narratives that we have about ourselves. - Yeah, it's massive. I mean, often that's what's holding us back. Now, I think it's so important to mention that that's not our fault that we have those. They may be given by parents, they may be given by society, they may be given by a group of bullies, but what I'm learning as a big part of adulthood is, it's not my fault that I have this less scale about myself, but it's my responsibility to overcome that and to tell a new one. - You're right, yeah, that's it. I remember I made this video about how so many people come to me. Oh, I wish I could speak Irish. I wish I heard Irish spoken. I wish Ireland was bilingual. I wish I had listened. I wish you were my teacher when I was in school, blah, blah, blah. You're still alive. You're telling me what you wish. So it's your frag rocked. Frag rocked is responsibility coming from fraggered to answer, to answer to the calling that you feel and regret and guilt and trauma and shame are things that you can allow fester within you. Whether it's, I want to shift my career. I want to start my own business. I want to learn Irish, whatever it is in your life, you can do it. And it's like, whether you think you can or can't, you're right, you know, you start believing that. - There's so much in there that's kind of unexpected how much of what you're talking about is applicable to lots of areas of our life. It's not. This isn't just a conversation about learning the Irish language. It's kind of far deeper. It's breaking through unhelpful narratives. It's following through on a dream or a vision that we have ourselves that we maybe thought wasn't possible. That must be quite rewarding to help facilitate that for people. - Definitely. Yeah, like you said, you know, about the best bits of your job, these lightbulb moments, like reaching a dream with a client and saying, look what you've achieved, you know? And they might be thanking you, Brian, being like, ah, you know, you really made this possible for me and you've really helped me through our sessions. But you're also looking at them going, you've put in so much work. Yeah, you've played your part. You've done what you said you were going to do. But it's so beautiful to look at your client or my student and go, boo la bus. You know, clapping hands, fair play to you. You put in the work. You needed a nudge. You needed the materials and the tools and you equip them with that. And off they go, it's really fulfilling. It's incredible. - Similar as education, like in coaching, we are not doing the heavy lifting. The client is doing the heavy lifting. The student is doing the heavy lifting. We are doing the facilitation of that. - Yes, exactly. 'Cause it's like certain things might be just so easy for you. You can see what's going on, but for them it's the first time. You've studied it, you've seen it happen with other clients, but they're probably like, how does this work? And you're kind of, yeah. - And also that sense of satisfaction is as much for me as it is for them, even though there's an exchange of value there, which is money. - Yeah. - It's as much for us as it is for the client. And I think it's so important to recognize that and embrace that because that's why we get up in the morning to do what we do. - Exactly. I think it really works because you love what you do, and they can feel that so palpably. - So it would be remiss of me as a coach, not to ask a future focus question to you. - Right. - Where do you ideally, where do you see yourself going with this? Where do you see yourself? Where could this go? - Though, yeah, a few short-term projects, I'm writing a book at the moment, and I'm organizing what my students call Mollifest. Now, I think we're gonna have to change the name, but it's gonna be an immersive Guenten- - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - So that'll be April next year, all going to plan. And after that, I mean, the big vision. I remember hearing Gary Bannister, who wrote a lot of books on the Irish language, including an amazing Thesaurus. He said he would love to see a bilingual Ireland in his lifetime, and he's in his 50s, I think, and he said that was highly ambitious. But I think could be possible, you know, with all these memes coming out, you want to be understanding them, and people will race to learn when the stakes are that high, when it's about humor, joy, connection, the crack. You know, the Irish brand is global and so positive, and yet the Irish language has had such a bad reputation. Why? You know? And of course, it's to do with a deeply colonized mindset, but I think it's brilliant, people are becoming aware of that, becoming more proud of who we are, our language, our culture, becoming more curious, more open, more vulnerable. And I think, yeah, the bigger vision would be a bilingual Ireland, people celebrating Irish, it being more understood, more readily available for people, more accessible, more egalitarian, and for people to know, it's not a complicated language. It's our relationship with it that is complicated. And I think undoing a lot of that trauma with the language will undo a lot of our, will decolonize us. You know, alcoholism in Ireland, domestic abuse, all of these problems, even poverty cycles, can come from, you know, a sense of being lost, a sense of not knowing who you are and what you want from your life and not being able to harness that. And of course, there are examples from every section of society of people doing great things and people who really lose the run of things. And I think this connection with the language is much more than just the language. - It's connecting with our sense of selves. - Yeah. - Yeah, and it reminds me of a storyteller who I love, Martin Shaw. I've seen him live twice and he blew my mind. He's from the UK, but he's very rooted in healthy traditions, he draws from a lot of places, but he said something to the effect of if a people lose their connection with their language and their stories, they can very easily revert to nationalism. So it's almost it. And I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with nationalism, but I think all over the world, we've seen the dangers of going too far to support a flag or a certain rate of evil. Well, I think what I got from what he was getting at is a language and our stories can more deeply root us, root us with a sense of self without having to other people. - Exactly, definitely. And I think that is built into the Irish language. Like we call each other a chara, dear friend. You know, and when you address someone like that, whether they are a real friend that you know and love or a neighbor or a stranger, you've never met or the president of Ireland, you can say a chara, dear friend, it's this really uniting force. Also, the fact there's no formality in the language, it's just two, rather than like the French vous, for example. There's a great connectedness and humanity in the language that like you say, yeah, it's not really about nationhood, it's about being human, being kind, doing what's right for the planet, for yourselves, for your families. - Amazing. So could you tell us a little bit about the book and Mollie Fest just as we kind of start wrapping up? - Yeah, so the book, I can't say too much, but probably 'cause it's not fully written yet, but it's gonna be, I think an exploration of the language, the etymology, some of my favorite words and phrases, how to apply them to your daily life, the value of using these, what they really mean. We never really went into that in school, even saying 'Gere of Maggut', you know, thank you, it means may you have goodness. - No way. - Yes, may you have goodness, like how gorgeous. And we learned Irish, you know, I got an A in the leaving search and I didn't really get these things, I didn't really like think about them, no one had ever opened up the world for me, like that. - So Gere of Maggut, thank you, means may you have goodness. - Yes, literally. The literal translations are incredible, like please means let the whole with your will or with your wish. And I think this is so nuanced because if you say like, oh, will you do that please? There can be an edge of demanding to it, whereas with your will, with your wish, means think about if you want to do that. Even no verb to like, it's like it would be good with me. But wahlam, or ismahlam, I like, it's good with me. It's very beautiful, there's no verb to have, no verb to know, no yes or no in the language. There's so much going on there. So yeah, the book will explore that and also, yeah, it's got a lot going on. - Yeah, we were at a family wedding at the weekend and my uncle from Cork was explaining to an English guest at the wedding when we say Tobron or Sadness is on me. It almost feels like a trope now because I've heard it so many times, but it's so beautiful that we don't ascribe the feeling to our identity like we do in English saying, I am sad. We say Sadness is on me. It's more fleeting. - Exactly. There is this healthy kind of reckoning or acknowledgement that feelings do not define us. They are fleeting and transient. And so I think the Irish have a great way of, you know, even embracing melancholy and being okay with it and then happiness comes along capturing that essence and enjoying it, you know, everything is temporary and we can't control or lock down our feelings. We can't just create them out of the blue. They come and go like clouds, like the Irish weather, always changing. - Yeah, yeah, always changing. - Yeah, and then Molly first, you know, it was so serendipitous. A lot of my students were saying, we all want to get together. We all want to listen to live music, speak Oscar Olga, you know, do activities in Irish, like knitting, dancing, singing, go swimming, go to classes, like do a workshop in a deep dive into, you know, the Amshahacha, you know, a lot of people, they love the rules and the logic of the language because it is fascinating and so patterned and consistent and satisfying. And then also, yeah, just living life, going to the pub, you know, having the pint and the kind, Oscar Olga. So that'll be a full timetable of over, I think four nights in a Gueltic location next April. So tickets will be out soon for that in the next month or so. And I'd love to make that something that is annual or biannual, biannual, meaning twice a year or not, once every two years. Because I think there's a great demand for that. People are eager to go somewhere that's really inclusive, immersive, and that they feel a true benefit from. They will actually unlock their Gueltic. They'll actually be able to speak freely, not be judged, be in a really supportive, warm atmosphere with like-minded people. I think people learning Irish are the best people in the world. And studies show that people learning Gueltic languages are the happiest in the world. Now that could be down to the fact that, you know, they chose that as their discipline, and maybe they have, yeah, there's a lot to love about it. - So when is your next, like if I wanted to take a course, how would I do that with Irish Mollie? - Oh, yeah, if you go to my website, Irishwithmollie.com, the next time registrations will open is probably around the end of November. But I might have a few webinars coming up soon. So if you check my Instagram, that's Irishwithmollie. And I have a free course. I have a newsletter that comes out every Sunday. And they're all recorded on YouTube, so you can listen, they're bilingual, so you can listen along with the Irish and read the English as you go. And I have a podcast as well on Spotify and Apple podcasts called Irishwithmollie. - Amazing. Well, what an absolute joyful conversation. Thank you very much. - I've loved it. I'm so glad we got to have this conversation. Thank you, Brian. - Okay, you're welcome. (upbeat music) - Well, there you have it. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the essential training podcast with me, Brian Kingston, and my dad, Ian Kingston. As Dad says, hope it brought something up for you and gave you a chance to reflect on your own work and your own life. We'll see you again next Thursday. And as always, we're open to any feedback or suggestions you might have, what you liked about it, what you think could be better, maybe some suggestions for guests, suggestions for topics as well. So thanks for listening and we will see you or you'll hear us next week. - Well, there you have it. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the essential training podcast with me, Brian Kingston and my dad, Ian Kingston. As Dad says, hope it brought something up for you and gave you a chance to reflect on your own work and your own life. We'll see you again next Thursday. And as always, we're open to any feedback or suggestions you might have, what you liked about it, what you think could be better, maybe some suggestions for guests, suggestions for topics as well. So thanks for listening and we will see you or you'll hear us next week. [ Silence ]