We finally had a successful interview with our pals, John Weejawnz and Dan Weejawnz, overlords of the Weejawnz Discord and Instagram. We play Stud vs. Chud, Talk The Worst Part of Ivy Style, loafer variations, defining “local,” internet anonymity, trying to befriend dads in the daycare pickup line, bucking the rules, A Blind Squirrel, A&F, Frat Astrology, Timeless Style, and an LL Bean Boat n Tote more...
Apocalypse Duds
The Weejawnz Brothers in Ivy Without Borders
We finally had a successful interview with our pals, John Weejawnz and Dan Weejawnz, overlords of the Weejawnz Discord and Instagram. We play Stud vs. Chud, Talk The Worst Part of Ivy Style, loafer variations, defining "local," internet anonymity, trying to befriend dads in the daycare pickup line, bucking the rules, A Blind Squirrel, A&F, Frat Astrology, Timeless Style, and an LL Bean Boat n Tote more...
- Broadcast on:
- 26 Sep 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
[BLANK_AUDIO] Ladies and gentlemen, these and them's welcome to the most stylish showdown on the air. It's time for [LAUGH] That's a cheering sound, stud or chud. The show where clothing meets culture and John's reach the chopping block. Our cherish and story guests, Dan Weejons and John Weejons. Our judges, I guess I should ask how you are. It's a bottle of buds, this is your honor valor, it's been a while. >> Yeah, it's been a while, and this seems like- >> It's been a while. >> Do it over, because it is, this is probably our fourth attempt. >> Part of it was kind of- >> I really missed or a conversation last time and any time I listened to the podcast, I'm like, man, I wish I could like chime in. >> I know, I know, this is our obligatory. It's really fucking difficult to record an all remote podcast. Three, me, Connor, and a guest is one level. Having two guests at one time is, or sorry, two or more is just not the simplest thing. >> I was gonna stand back and purposely miss it again as a bit. [LAUGH] >> Just to keep it alive, so. >> Maybe, maybe we can get it to you guys. >> Yeah, next time I'll come up to Baltimore and do it in person. >> Yeah, there we go. >> That would be tight, yeah, we recorded one episode of my house and it was like there are police helicopters and like- >> Yeah, it was also like, if I'm remembering correctly, it was right as the previous hosting platform that we used to record changed their shit. And so we had the like scramble and yeah, it was fun. But yeah, welcome to the show, y'all, thank you for coming back on. >> Yeah, cuz thanks for having us. >> Yeah, let's start the fucking, sorry, stud or show, first up on the job at work. >> We have black, then- >> Man, I might, I'll let John lead off here. >> Hell yeah, yeah, no, I'm on board, that's my new thing for this fall. And it's been really exciting to see other folks really picking up on black denim. Yeah, stud for sure. >> You were doing it, you were doing it, you pitched it to me, man. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, you gotta join me, you gotta- >> I think that's good, I think that's good. >> Yeah, and black jeans are cool. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> I mean, I think I like the subversive element of them, and I don't know why. I feel like I have like a 90s country music connotation with them too for some reason. >> For sure. >> I feel like I remember my dad wearing them when I was younger. >> Like Tim McGraw, Garth Brooks. >> Yeah. >> Those, Marty Stewart, those guys definitely rock some black denim. >> Pretty regular. >> Kind of depends on the belt too, and the shoes. >> Yeah, they don't like wear, then what's the point? >> Right, right, I have myself come to embrace black more. I prefer a little bit more faded to like super dark, but yeah, I'll co-sign that. Yeah, I mean, I will admit I do not own a pair, but it's all the radar, and I agree with you, Matt. I mean, just, I mean, I've faded black denim is essentially kind of like a gray anyway, so. >> Right, right, exactly. >> Yeah, it's one of those things. John, I think you hit it on the head, like it is a bursant, like especially for anyone that comes out of like skateboarding or fucking punk or metal or whatever, like. >> Don't they only wear black? I mean at the whole point. >> At certain times, sure, but, you know, we all have, have had our black dickies and black, you know, two small t-shirt face, at least I have. >> Yeah, I wore all black, I went Trump one, I wore all black every day for two years. >> You're morning fits. >> Yeah, what was funny was convenient. I mean, I could wear a sweatsuit and like a fishtail park on. >> Yeah, sorry to say if I get black jeans all look like Aaron Levine or Aaron Levine. >> You would look good, don't you think? >> I think, yeah, I definitely think so. >> They're on the radar. >> Look, look, look, look, look. >> You have those small legs. >> I mean, you got to get the cut right. I mean, I'm not going to be wearing some like 5'10s. >> Yeah, I'll give a shout out to my buddy Matt Lambert who does a factors collection. Like, he incorporates a lot of black, but also a lot of like midnight blue and things of that nature. And I'm like, every time I see him, he has like a horse-eyed pair of trousers that he wears with like midnight jacket, and I'm like, fuck, that was cool. >> They're really like, beautiful, a lot of this stuff is really, really like thoughtful. >> Oh yeah, yeah, I would expect nothing less. All right, black denim is a cosign for both, a stud, a stud. So Connor, you take the next one. >> Sure, we wanted to talk about Brooks Brothers, I think, stuff has kind of changed since the five years ago when we recorded the first one of these. So we can start with Dan this time because we're about equality. >> Just Brooks in general or? >> Stud or Judd, I mean, is it worth wearing? Who gives a shit about Brooks Brothers anymore? >> I mean, pre-2005, potentially, I will give stud, but yeah, I don't know. I don't think there's anything really on my wish list from a current offering in many seasons. I'll put it that way. I don't know. I mean, maybe there's some value in like some knitwear, potentially, if it's still made in Great Britain, which I doubt it, but yeah, I mean pre-2005, for sure, but yeah, yeah. >> I would not. >> I'm like, a year ago, I think you could recommend to somebody getting a Brooks OCBD relatively inexpensively. That is like not true at all anymore. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I got you a year. >> Like you could still do the- >> I see, you can sell them for like 80 to $120. >> It depends on, it depends on though, if it's like, if it's like actual all cotton or like made somewhere. >> That's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about all the cotton. >> Oh, it's just not the, yeah, not the book. >> The wolves that are worth a while, I mean, you usually be able to get them for cheap. Now they're fucking expensive. That's the story. >> I have really, weirdly strong feelings on this because for a couple of years- >> That's last. >> Like right, like up until like last year, I was recommending their made in Vietnam once that they were doing, because you could buy them on sale for like $45, they were kind of oversized in the fit, and they were great. I mean, you know, when you got them for $40, $45, you couldn't really beat them. And then recently I think they retired those, and now it's some new like Friday Oxford shirt or something like that. That's kind of like a shorter cut meant to be untudged that I'm just, I'm not about. They're starting to bring back like the number one sack suit, which is, I mean, it's cool that they're heading in the right direction, and they're starting to bring back some more of like, Paris Tweets stuff, but it's still just not there for me. The lapels always look a little off on the suits, and then yeah, I'm a fan of the old fun shirts, and they brought it back recently, and I was really excited, but it's just not good. It's just like some really ugly colors, like it's so simple to just do like the blue, red, yellow, green fun shirt, and they're doing some weird like grays, and I don't know what else it is. I'm just like, you know, like keep it simple, comment. Innovate on something that already is good. Yeah. Yeah, to me, I feel like Brooks overall these days has reached like Macy's in the mall status, which I'm sure that that is a lot of their content. But it's like, you know, things-- They used to be prestige. Yeah, there used to be prestige, like they used to be, at least in the Taylor clothing world, like very relevant, and now, you know, I don't know if it's because like the skinny suit is still holding on to mainstream shit, like it's finally reached the point where that's like the go-to instead of the terrible business suit that should have died a long time ago. But, you know, it still doesn't look good for the most part. Yeah. I mean, all the lookbooks are real. They're rough. Oh, I can imagine. I don't know if I'll listen to the show, listening, mindful, we got to stop with the lobsters and the anchors, et cetera. Yeah. I mean, they have-- I mean, their archive is incredible. I wish they would-- Yeah, why don't they just produce stuff from the archive more than it goes? So I've worked with a lot of like-- I've worked with Southwick, who made Brooks Brothers since the dawn of time, essentially, like I've worked with these old school-made bactures, and they never have, and seemingly never will be able to-- or realize that like, hey, we need someone that actually knows something to be creative in this role. None of these companies have anyone that has any connection to modern times, and so they just-- they do the same stuff for so long, and then it's like they shift and try to be the super-treaty thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, yo, you're 15 years behind the trend, dude. Yeah, they also like couldn't have been relevant, really, in the-- I don't know. I feel like in the hashtag men's wear times, it was like-- I mean, that's like the red fleece label. I feel like they were leaning into it, and they've just never come out of it. Black fleece was incredible to me, like the top of it. No, right? I mean, that was good, and it was innovative, right? Even if it wasn't, yeah. Yeah, but like, yeah. It's great. You know, like some of that stuff does look dated, but some of it is also just like, oh, shit, like that could still be like entirely relevant 15 years on or whatever. I think the first Black fleece collection was like '08, or maybe '09, or 'Came from Alberta. I just think it's funny, like, people were saying these suits are slim, they are modern, they will be forever. But they're also-- That's always what it is. They're also-- It was-- They're nearly identical to the '60s heyday of IV, like cut and details. And like, yeah, that stuff can look dated sometimes, but like, there's enough crossover with like, more modern shit, and like, super soft shoulder and whatnot, like, I'm not a big fan of sat jackets or like, hook center vents, but, you know, there's ways that they could have kept that going because it does hark them back to like, what their best at. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The derailleurs whole conversation, but certainly back to what you're saying, Matt, about designers. Ivy Style did an article recently with Jay Press's creative designer director or whatever it is, and it was just not good. Yeah. Right. I mean, there's no real like, like vision to move things forward, but I think this has also been a complaining of the Ivy Style community forever, right? I mean, you don't get a lot of innovation from the kind of old guards, and you see it more from other shots, and I keep coming back to all blues go as somebody who I think are doing a lot of really, really cool stuff that, I mean, it's a bit too expensive, I think, for me to buy and rather just go buy vintage stuff, but I think they do a lot of really cool Ivy stuff. Totally. Totally. Okay. So the next stud or chud, and I think we all collectively agree, Modern Birchwell is just chud. But the next one hits home for me because it's one of the things I passionately hate. One of a very few things. As George Carlin says, I don't have pet peeves. I have psychotic fucking hatreds, and this is one of those. The guilty tassel over. Uh-oh. Well, I think, aren't we talking about the hierarchy of loifers since the- Okay, okay. Maybe named after the loafer. True. Right? I mean, Joel, I mean, I feel like that isn't even as established as a puzzle, for example. Let's make this a two-part question. So first of all, stud or chud, guilty tassel. The other part of that being the tassel hierarchy. John, since you have loping in your handle, this is yours. 100% stud. I feel like this is a targeted question, I mean. Wait, you're saying the guilty tassel is a stud? Oh, yeah. Well, so like, so I have to preface this by saying, I think guilty loifers, like outside of like deck shoes are the only shoe I saw my dad wear for like 25 years. And it was like the pair of loifers that he gave me when I went off to college. He was like, here, like have my old pair. So I wore them some in college. I ditched them for a while, and I've started wearing them again recently when I found a pair of thrift shop. I like them. I don't know why. I think there's something charming about their ugliness, which there is never that. Daddy, dude. They are. They're fragile. I love them also. I don't know. And he knows. Well, let me have them. Yeah, so the other thing you guys know is that you can buy like the older Cole Holland ones for dirt cheap on eBay, and they're really good, right? Like, like the some of them are kind of junky, but like some of the older, like Italian and made in the American stuff is like legitimately good. So even if you don't like the style, which is fine, whatever, then I still like them. I will say, I don't think they're the best tassel for I think that goes to the regular tassel over. And I'm going to sign me up for Kiltons. Okay. All right. And yeah. So for you, what's the hierarchy? I mean, I think it's got to be all the tassel over first, right? And then I'll say Kilties, the ones that are really, yeah, yeah, six is the is the brown suede six, two, I think, I mean, you guys know I can do like a whole branch on just all that stuff. No, not my favorite one, too dark of a brown. The ones that really get me though, are the ones that are like the plain strap penny loafers that have the tassel on them. Oh, yeah. I don't mess with those. The Venetian style ones without a strap, I'm cool with those, but yeah, for me, it goes kind of the traditional tassel over, then the Kiltie and the Venetian and then the whatever the basic penny loafers. Okay. All right. All right. What is? Okay. I'm a little demoralized, by John saying the Kiltie. Wow. This is not meant. I'm not. I don't want John to catch a stray on this, but I'm, I mean, I said on this new iteration of it, I'm not going to try to split the difference. So I'm just going to come in with a, with a hot tick. So I will go with, I will go with shot. I don't know. It's nice. At times it's just hard, it's hard enough just to wear a loafer. I think like outside of the office, period to the point where it's like, well, for some, but for me, personally at times for better or for worse. Yeah. I don't think I can, and you can wear a loafer whenever you want. I know brother, but I, I mean, just say, and I'm not rolling up to my kid's soccer game and loafers and certainly not Kiltie loafers. Yeah. Yeah. It's just, you know, if I had a huge closet, maybe, but I know I have to chase a child and loafers. I mean, I do do. I know you've got to get to. So it's, you know, it's just, that's just kind of my own, uh, my own prerogative there. But yeah. Yeah. The ceiling is all that high on them. Like, I mean, you, you really got a nail it, I think, yeah, you know, to pull them off as the, the floor could be quite low. So they're like a funny shoe. It's like, I think they probably predate lace shoes. I had a pair, like fairly recent, like, I can't remember the model. They were Alan Edmonds, but it was actually, I mean, talk about a Frankenstein. It was a tassel basket weave, Kiltie. I love that. I love that. I mean, there was just so much going on on these. Yeah. Well, the first person to come up with that, like the first cobbler to be like my masterpiece. I combined everything. Yeah. That's fucking awesome. It's like 1700. Yeah. So I, I flipped those and yeah, I don't know that I'm going to be, uh, if I need to get another pair anytime soon, I worked with the guy years ago, uh, his name was Jerry. Great. And funny as dude, um, he was really in the smooth jazz, um, and he, uh, previously had, I think managed a Joseph a bank. So that, if that gives you a little insight into his overall style, I will say it did evolve, uh, in a good way, but anyway, so we called him J smooth and, uh, he wore a Kiltie tassel four days a week and I was just like, this is the worst you have ever seen in my life. I've just consistently in my face every single day and I'm just, did you have a ponytail? He did not have a ponytail, but he did wear transition lens glasses. So I'm a lot of sprays here. I don't have a ponytail right now, but I can, I can, you know, that for you, I'll post the ponytail and your default state to have the ponytail though, right? Because you keep your hair just looks more hessier than like, dude, holding on to youth to me. Uh, I, I think, I think it was on the croll show. They had that sketch ponytails. It was like five different guys with ponytails, a lot of cats, you know, very nice. Yeah. Okay. Uh, sorry. I did roll that a little bit, but Dan, what's your, uh, mopra hierarchy? Um, I mean, I'd probably say Penny, the first and foremost, I feel like that's just the easiest one to roll with, um, that, that, and then I guess I'd go tassel, tassel, then bit. I mean, that's a little bro, but you know, I, I think you can, you can shoehorn them in pun intended. Yeah. Okay. I can, I can definitely, we definitely got to get the video of that one. We've got a really funny show for you. If we're doing the generic, uh, low for when I'm with them, that's the, I think classic loafers, uh, that would be up there. Yeah. The full straps, or we don't love for me though. Oh, full straps are one and another one that I really fucking hate. Yeah. They, I don't think that, I don't know, there's probably some cool old Italian or Japanese do that wears full straps and looks amazing in them. To me it just reads, uh, bad, like 80s, 90s, uh, corporate office bad. It's a strong, it's a strong look. Yeah. What about shirt pockets on oxfords? I mean, we have talked about this on the show before there's, people have feelings about them. Does anybody not like them? Fuck. Yeah. Ralph doesn't like them. Yeah. Okay. Like most Ralph shirts don't have them and that's a huge, huge pain in the ass. Yeah. You're right. And my big shirts have it though, no, you got to have a pocket, right? There was that era where Brooks Brothers dropped the pocket and everybody lost their minds for a good reason. Yeah. I have one of those. It's really annoying. Yeah. When I was a smoker, it's like, you can fit a smartphone and a pack of cigarettes in there. Yeah. Very very. I'm a smoker and I carry a pen every day. So I need a fucking shirt pocket. I love the pen. Yeah. Always. Always. I was bought like a fountain pen. I don't know what the fuck I was thinking. My handwriting is really bad. Yeah. Okay. So John, I think you're overwhelmingly stud on Oxford shirt pocket. Yeah. I'm pro flaps to pro flaps. Yeah. Yeah. I could get flat pocket. Yeah. I don't know. I'm both of those. It's super annoying not to have the pocket on the shirt. That's where I usually keep my badge because I don't want to be like the guy with the badge hanging on my badge. Oh, yeah, keep it in there. So yeah, if I were a Ralph Oxford, then I keep it in my other back pocket. Yeah. Of it somewhere. I know. It's a guy. Yeah. I grew up the flap to another one. I don't know. You have a J press flap, John. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a an LL Bean restaurant one and it had like a little son and slit and I didn't really know what that was. Oh, it's for a pen. It's for a pen. There you go. Did it have? Did it also have like a little slit at the top of the pocket, like when it was button? Yeah. It was a bit. The vape fits in the pen pocket very nicely. Yeah. I will say this is a trash person. That's where I keep my health bar. Yeah. Well, like I would want it unpacked. I would want it unflapped on one side because I like to put the phone in and. Out of that pocket, you know, get a custom made sure with two flat pockets. I have a shirt that has to I have a shirt that has two pockets on it and I was like, this is terrible. Like, I don't want to look like more breasty. I think it's great because you can have it. It's like very convenient on the phone in the shirt pocket person. So I don't know. It just feels. It's definitely going to give me some kind of disease at some point because it's really in my shirt pocket a lot. Wow. Wow. All right, guys. Final one. How do we feel about bow ties? Dan, let's start with you. I am out on those. Okay. Yeah. Again, I will leave it to the professionals. I think you can nail it, but again, I think, you know, even if you had every detail, it's only going to look so good, whereas I think most people, it's just the execution is not there. Yeah. It gives me barbershop and or coral ensemble quartet vibes. No matter. Libertarian. It's like you're a little libertarian. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I feel like if someone looks like Rivers Cuomo and is wearing like a bow tie and an aragal vest, I'll give them a pass because, you know, I understand it, but why do they get a pass? Just for my personal judgments, I'm not going to be like, okay, you know, whatever. And like Dan, nerds don't get your ire if they're wearing the bow tie and like Dan said, you know, some people look really cool in them and I can get down with that. I've just, I've tried them many times and I'm just like, yeah, I feel like a douchebag. So maybe if you're 70 plus, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Also, it's very, I shouldn't say that, but if you're kind of like mid range, like 20s to 60s, I don't know. It's a very particular kind of thing. It's just tough to do. They've been co-opted by the right and they're going to bring it back. I love the, it's like a party around your neck. It's like, um, Kentucky Derby and Spo, you know, it's like everyone goes to the Derby party and they just brick so bad. Yeah. Yeah. No, bow ties are great and look, you have to accept the fact that a bow tie is a bow tie and it's not, from like, amazing, I'm going to say menswear here and not like hashtag menswear anyway, it's not like the best choice from like a true menswear way, but I mean, you know, they're, they're, they're charming, you know, when you don't have the whole point. It's like a weird non tie, but I mean, whatever, I like them. That's what I'm saying. It's good. Yeah, it's like a who cares. I think I'd rather go bow, low tie. Bow is sick. Yeah. I think those are cool. Yeah. Yeah. I'll give them my black jeans. Uh, but no, I mean, look, you've got, uh, Tom King and Bill and I, both rocking bow ties. I will say, I think they need to be small and I think they have to be, like, really soft and floppy to really have some, some character to them and you need it to be tied well, uh, and kind of, you know, half gawk sideways and whatever. Yeah. It's got to be fucked up. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, no, I, I love bow ties. I've been wearing them since, I mean, for, since I started the law school, I remember wearing them and just, uh, man, I was working at the Georgia Capitol all the time. Oh, yeah. You know, I would wear them up there. And then when I moved to DC a couple of years after that, I remember wearing bow ties and I got so many, so many comments from people on wearing bow ties, but they were always overwhelmingly positive. Like people, people generally respond well to bow ties, um, but you can't wear them every day. No, no. I don't know if it's like because of fucking Colonel Sanders or something, but like Southerners love a fucking bow tie and they, they somehow appreciate that. Not sure why or where that comes from, but yeah, I feel like business suit bow tie and like 20 full strap loafers are a big thing in the south. They're tough to tie to you. I'll come on. Say it. Like, I watch like four hours of Instagram videos on how to do it. Oh, I'm sorry, I can't continue to do this. So yeah, that's, that's my other thing. Like I can tie like a double foreign hand and about 10 seconds and a bow tie takes me like 15 minutes to fucking finally get right. So it's like tying your shoes around your neck. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, have you ever tried to tie someone's shoes? Like I'm actually both of you guys. Yeah. But like experience with, yeah, and you're a teacher, but like if you try to do it backwards, it's very hard for me to do even still that I do it every day. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Like talking a bow tie feels like that to me. Same. Same cause you're looking in a mirror. It's like, it's a terrible thing. Yeah. That's what they used to get up to back in my day. I'll say this though. Look at my fancy neck thing. Oh, I'll say this though. For me, one of my biggest pet peeves is a poorly tied tie. Oh, yeah. Totally. Like a loose knot drives me nuts and like you got to have a good dimple in it. You should make a sticker out of that. Yeah, you're really sure loose knots drive me nuts. Yeah. It's just one of those things where my, my dad, like I remember getting ready for like high school prom or whatever it was, like teaching me how to tie a tie and not just tying a tie, but being like, look, like, you know, this is how you really get a tight knot. You need to have a dimple. Like here's how a tie should be, uh, and ever since then that's, that's like really stuck out to me. And same thing with bow tie. He taught me how to tie a bow tie too. And he's like, look, you know, you got to learn how to like really tighten the knot and get it nice and tight. Um, cause he was like, no, that's, that's the charm. So you don't like the look of like four o'clock in the afternoon with the tie pulled down. See, that doesn't bother me as much. Um, as long as the, the knot is still tight and the dipole is still there. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, all right. Well, that was our kind of inaugural redo of different things in stud or chud. Maybe we'll, we'll continue this wonderful little exercise. Um, but yeah, great, great answers. I like that it wasn't all just total agreement from both of you. It's wonderful. Uh, and you practiced all of your responses. Yeah. Anytime. It should have fucking been good. Yeah. So let's get on to that. Me to clues in advance. Yeah. Yeah. I was texting them out. They're conspiracy. They were betting on it. All the fans are betting on it. We're sponsored by ABC who definitely gave the answers to Colin Harris. Yeah. That joke. Hopefully age as well. I don't know. But yeah. So, uh, ask what did someone say that? Oh, that's, that's a whole thing on the fucking like, right at this point. Like the Indians are like, oh, like, like it was three against one for Trump and I didn't watch the debate. I just kept up with it, you know, via Twitter and a couple of other people just texting me shit. But I was just like, wow, cool. Yeah. We haven't, haven't made any progress. Yeah. We've got that. And that's generous. Yeah. I am being generous. All right. So guys, where are you from and where do you live now? Whoever wants to go first is welcome. Dan. Yeah. Damn it. I was going to. I'll hop in there. Yeah. So I am from the Midwest, beautiful St. Louis, Missouri. So born and raised, I guess I'm a little bit of a homer to a degree because, you know, about St. Louis, oh, yeah, I'm aware of it. I mean, you've been over there. I'm just curious. Well, that's where the casinos are. So like East St. Louis is actually across the Mississippi River. Yeah. I'm reading it like described. Wait, so Dan, you're saying the West side is where you spent most of your days. You can say that. Yeah. I mean, East St. Louis, I mean, it's, you know, I don't want to. It's extremely segregated. Yeah. Yeah. It's for the most part, it's like a, it's a blight blighted area. Yeah. You know, I mean, there are casinos over there. It's a lot of industrial and then, uh, it's like Monsanto poison. And then unfortunately, yeah, it's just real, real rundown neighborhoods to an extent. Some other gentlemen in clubs are over there that are apparently not legal within the city of St. Louis. So if you're going across the river generally, it's to gamble or to do some other nefarious activities. Yeah. I'm talking about activities. So I'll leave it at that. Well, I didn't go to East St. Louis, but I'm curious. It's like, yeah, I don't know. Yeah. If you're ever in the area, we'll go over there. We'll go over there. We can check it out. Yeah. We can do some gambling. And yeah, definitely. So, um, you know, yeah, again, so born and raised, like went to, you know, all school here, went to college here, went to grad school here. So I don't have a really ventured out, um, you know, as far as other, uh, other cities, you know, post grads, you know, but I mean, overall, I mean, it's just, it's home. Yeah. I really like it. I've been there once. It seems rad. Do you like. I'm sorry. Do you like Culvers? Is this a restaurant that you go to? Um, I'm not a huge Culver's guy in a pinch. Yeah. I thought it was like, is that, um, I don't know. I think we went three times. We were there for a week because it is, it's Culver's like Denny's. It's kind of like a shaker. Oh, it's like a nice hamburger and like good ice cream. Yeah. It's what I was curious about because there's real division Matt. There's one up 400 by the, uh, North Georgia Alamo. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, I know. Well, I'm vegan. So they probably don't have a single thing that I can eat. Not at Culvers. Unfortunately. Yeah. Now it's okay. I grew up going to Steak and Shake. So I can kind of imagine what Culvers is like. Yeah. Steak and Shake's great. Yeah. It was back in the day. Like if you're coming home from like an Atlanta Braves game, uh, which is you typically when I ate it, but, uh, yeah, and Sean, uh, what about you? Where are you from? Where, or yeah, where are you from? Where do you live now? Uh, born and raised in Georgia for the first like 22 years of my life, uh, spent a decent chunk of time in Spain because my mom is Spanish. Uh, and then I've been in DC now for about 12 and a half years. Okay. Yeah. I don't know. I can call up Georgia as much like my one true home anymore. I think it's, it's, I think it's DC these days. That's awesome. A lot of, you know, a lot of good, uh, cool history in DC. So yeah, it's a cool city. It's a cool city. I will say a DC has very strong opinions on like what like a local is. Yeah. Yeah. So what, yeah, what, what is the kind of DC definition of local? I still don't fully understand it, but like it's kind of like if you're not like born and raised in like DC proper, uh, you're, you're not really from DC. Right. And like kind of Washington. Yeah. Right. Like people have very strong feelings too. Like if you're from like just across the river in Virginia, you know, like some people think that still be in and some people don't at all. Uh, but yeah, I mean, look, I mean, my, my kid was born in, uh, in DC. So I, I think that gives me at least some claim to being a, a Washingtonian these days. I feel like 12 years is also a long time to live in a place. Sorry. Right. I mean, DC is the third of my life. Yeah. Fuck. Fuck. Yeah. Yeah. I'm saying good, but I'm saying like they, my parents are Washingtonians. They're super like, excluders, you know, it's like I'm from and it's like, man, I mean, I kind of get it though, right? I think like, so I met metal, no, like Marietta, Georgia. It's not, it's not Atlanta, right? It's, I mean, it's effectively a suburb and I'm from Kennesaw originally, which is just a little bit further out, but like in Georgia, I think you kind of claim Atlanta, if you're from like anywhere within like 30 or 40 miles of like downtown proper, because it's so big. The Atlanta Metro is 90 or seven miles from north to south. It's ridiculous. When I told me that, I was like, yeah, you can, you can fit, I believe the state of Massachusetts in the Atlanta Metro area. Yeah, I believe it. I probably won the English and central Atlantic States, but yeah, and it's, it's an oasis in Georgia too, right? I mean, like once you start to get outside of like Atlanta's like, you know, scurve influence, like you're, you're really in like the heart of the deep south, right? Like the running joke back home is always the difference between Georgia and Alabama is Atlanta. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'll give Birmingham tons of props too. I love that. Yeah. No Birmingham's cool city. And I mean, you know, there's other big cities, but there's no, there's no other Atlanta in the south. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So Richmond and you know, the cool cities. But Atlanta, Atlanta makes Georgia, I'll say at least these days it's changed a lot, but like a much cooler southern city to be. Yeah. Totally. So it's still the best city in the world. Yeah. So that's a good DC question, but have you ever driven by the discord house? The discord house? What's that? Uh, uh, the record label that Ian Mackay and Brian Baker started that put out like my threat to God, CT animals, all that. No. Oh, damn. It's in Nova. I think it's in Arlington, I think, which is in Northern Virginia. Yeah. But oh, yeah. Sorry. Nova. Um, yeah. Um, like my whole life. Yeah. It's just, it's funny. Like, I don't know, something that made me think about it was like, I think about Ian and Gee from Pragazi are from like Arlington area or like, you know, kind of not technically DC, but close enough where like they consider DC home. I don't know. It's just funny how things have changed. Yeah. I, I can't claim it, but we're so much less to the American football house and so. Oh, really? I've been by there before. That's. Oh, man. Okay. That makes up for John. John. This courthouse. Did you see this recently? I turned into an Airbnb. No. Which is kind of brutal. If you think about it. Oh, yeah. I had seen something. I feel like everything is brutal. If you think about it, I think someone was trying to like fundraise buying it. I think they did. Oh, they did. Oh. And now. My question is, is it like an American football themed Airbnb? Because I thought you had American football the band. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That our audience is aware. I'm sure. But like, you know, if it's, if it's like a concealer themed house and it's an Airbnb, I don't, as much as Airbnb kind of sucks. I don't know if I can totally hate it. I would assume so. I, I think it probably is tinged that way, but yeah, I think the guys did. Buy it, along with some guys from the record. Okay. Yeah. Well, that's, that's cool. Cooler. At least. Cooler. Yeah, but it's still. We have a government. The Airbnb. Yeah. They kind of preserve buildings. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It should be a fucking national monument. Yeah. Should just be a hostel for, for deeds touring. Yeah. Oh, dude. That's a great idea. But yeah, I guess that doesn't really bring in the dollars. Yeah. Yeah. And like, or the music industry as a whole is like, you know, if you're not chaperone or whoever the newest pop sensation is, like, you're kind of fucked at this point. So I kind of get it. Yeah. It's progress. Yeah. Certainly. Certainly. Yeah. So I think you guys are in like those bigger markets. But like, you always hear like, you know, DC or Atlanta or Nashville or Austin, they're like, they don't want the transplants is that kind of the thing? I mean, a big thing in Atlanta is like, which is kind of become a meme is like, we're full. Not to not to say that like, there aren't rad transplants that come here. Like, they're definitely are, but the infrastructure itself is not built for as many people that live in the Metro as they do today. And so. Yeah. Yeah. It's wild. It's wild how much Atlanta has changed. Oh, totally. Just left. I mean, it's a whole different city. It's crazy. I mean, there's certain things about it like in the music scene, it's like one of my favorite periods that I've been a part of and like been around. They're still, you know, there's an amazing art scene, like there's all this incredible stuff happening. But then, you know, I'll drive a place that I haven't been in a month. And I'm like, oh fuck, they started going to condos here. Great. And the condos are not like affordable in the least bit. So a lot of that shit. It's everywhere. Yeah. That's everywhere. That's everywhere. But also, and I don't mean to, I won't go in a big soap box, but like downtown Atlanta is so fucking cool and could be so cool. And no one gives shit about doing anything with it. So it's like mostly barren or like just a bunch of stuff from like, you know, that that have sat and disrepair for so long that it's, I don't know, it just, it almost me out because downtown could be so sick and nobody puts any effort into it. Yeah. We can't have the same vibe, honestly, but yeah, we don't. We'll have that problem. We'll take your transplants. Come to St. Louis, it's great. Probably way cheaper than most other or a lot of other places. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, we got four seasons. You have here. Yeah. Not the hotel. Well, guys, we have one of those, but yeah, we're talking about style or what have you. We do have, you know, four distinct seasons, which I think that's kind of a nice little perk about it. Yeah, that's great. Yeah. I will say, I think that's kind of DC's biggest downside is that there are a ton of transplants here. And for the most part, people don't stay. You know, I mean, I've had so many friends over the years who are here and then, you know, stay for two, three, four, five years and then peace out and go somewhere else. Right. And I mean, yeah, I mean, maybe that's a big factor in the whole locals versus not thing, but yeah, DC, a ton of transplants, and especially it's like administrations change. The city resets itself. Right. And I mean, I moved up here in 2012, I mean, it seems like just before that kind of like when Obama came into office, like DC started to be a cool city again, but like DC lacks, I think a lot of like the, the, I'm not going to say charm because I don't know if that's fair, but a lot of like the charm for lack of better term that like the other cities have, like Atlanta, right? I mean, like it's, it's grown so much and it's changed since I moved here that it's really starting to feel like its own kind of vibe now. But before that, I don't think it was as much of a great speed. Yeah. So do we want to do the fifth check? I mean, we can edit this if you don't want to. That's fine. I'm trying to say that you look like shit, both of you. Thanks. I really appreciate that. Leave that part in. Leave the video out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to add any of this. Yeah. You know, we're fast and loose here. What about your first clothing memory? I mean, have you sharpened your answers for this? My, my connection just dropped there. What did you say? The first clothing memory. Because I remember your answer. Jico's. Was that my answer? I thought you were talking about tailoring at a young age. I don't know. I think they may have been, maybe, I don't know. I feel like mine was jinkos. Like, not like, it's funny listening back to tell your other podcast. Not like the giant like massive ones, but like in middle school, I was just old enough to start being, just old enough to start like doing my own thing in terms of style. And that's when like the jinkos and all that stuff was really big and like the skating era. So like, I think that was it for me and granted it was a very short lived era for me. I had a, I had a sweet pair of black corduroy jinkos. Oh, I remember, I'm pretty sure I remember that exact model. And so that's, that's like one of the big things that stands out for me. Like, at least like my earliest memory. And then like, you know, if you're talking about like, in like my kind of adult period, I don't know, my, my dad retired, like right before I graduated from college. And I remember him giving me a bunch of his like old work stuff. And I didn't really realize it at the time, but he gave me a pair of Aldens that were like the Brode cap toe oxfords. And that kind of got like the itch for me for like nicer shoes. So that was a big one as well. Oh hell yeah. I was in the same jinko camp. Like my parents would not allow me to buy the massive ones. So I could only get them like, you know, whatever inch bottom, mostly like a normal pant, but also like probably fit about the same as like the car heart pants that I wear today. I didn't even know that there were different cuts on gene codes. Oh yeah. Like a hundred and bring your shoes. Some that were like 45 inches, you know, around the or maybe bigger. Those are the big boys. Yeah, those are the big boys. They're like new metal looking ones. Yeah, yeah, that's all I remember. Yeah, my parents wouldn't let me get those either. I think I wore like Arizona gene co carpenter genes or things. Well, they're like, it's like so insane clown posse. It's like, uh, it says so much. Yeah. And I don't know what you could do about wearing them. They're one of those things that are now like hip in the vintage world that I just refuse to buy. And so like I could make I don't think it goes in your aesthetic. If I I'm trying to channel the logo. I wasn't it like a little cartoon guy. Yeah, there were there were like the kangaroo ones that have like a kangaroo sticking out of the pocket. Oh my god. Those little guys. I mean, every single thing seemed to have a little guy on it. And I love the little guys. Yeah, I think I were just like a lot of like, I mean, obviously growing up in the 90s sambas, like Umbrell and one and one starter jacket. Yeah. And I was in Adidas jackets. Yeah, there were like there was an Umbrell outlet in Alabama that I was like obsessed with because I played soccer too. As like a 12 or 14 year old or something. But like, whenever you had a pair of those on, it was like, yeah, dude, I feel cool. Yeah, yeah, I had a badass one that was like World Cup 94. Oh, yes. Yes. And like they had like they had a little guy or it was like a it was a dog, I'd say. Yeah, it was a dog that some of the best branding that I can think of in my lifetime. Yeah, I mean, if you could uncover one of those men right now, that's like probably 500 bucks. Yeah, yeah, it's probably expensive. So what was aside from Umbrells and sambas, what was your first clothing memory? I mean, aside from that stuff, like early on, I think like probably early high school, like the first items that like I remember like saving up to buy for myself would probably be like, like your, and I know they're like huge resurgence right now, but probably like your, your Birkenstock Boston standard. North face Denali, the black on black? Yes. Yeah, I mean, those are like, they're black. I mean, you really can't go wrong. But yeah, that's like, when I was in high, like early odds to mid all odds, I think that was like, that was the move right there, like, the, the Birken, the, I mean, slightly boot cut jeans with the, with the Denali jacket. I mean, that's it. Yeah, well, and like New Balance 574s. Yeah, honestly, it's like not a bad, like, look at a bell curve and you're gonna say, all right, that's kind of my middle ground. Like, it's probably not a bad place to be. Right, totally. So it's funny what this conversation brings back because I definitely had a pair of Birkenstock Boston's and a pair of like Nike Cortez had the Adidas. What are the, the Clantos, the superstars? Yeah, superstars. That's where that's my dirt. I mean, this is like, this would have been like 01, 02, 03. I just hate the shell toe. I think it's so like, it's like, so bulbous. It's like, it's like a hideous. Yeah, I was talking a couple of days ago to some friends and like, in, in the, like me, the hardcore scene that I was a part of in this time period, like those Steve Madden sneakers, the ones that like looked vaguely Italian and kind of like, you know, chunky in a way, designer, and also the knock offs that like you could go to pay less and pay like 15 bucks for, were so huge. And then the like, Sockney jazz. That's a bully. James says like, they look like Sketchers, but they something. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That do look like Sketchers. I won't shit on the anything, Sockney, because I love that, that brand and design, like they look pretty classic. Yeah. Yeah. The Steve Madden sneaker from that time period is like, we should have burned them with fire. That's how they were. Yeah, the jazz, the jazz are good. And then, um, the, the shadow, I still. Yeah. That's great. The courageous has always been my favorite. What words are you saying? Sockney jazz. Oh, I see. I fucking shadow and Sockney courageous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, this guy I was in college with, he and I would always joke about making this blog about shoes called surprised. It's not super. And they would be ugly shoes that were not super us. That was our plan. You can still start it. It could be a. Yeah, we did. It was on Tumblr and then it was gone. All right. All right. P and D could be a reas surgeons of like that. That odd Sarah blog stuff that would be like super funny. I mean, I think it's close, right? The cycle continues as rapidly as it has ramped up to be. We ain't a couple, more than a couple of years out of it. Yeah. Well, did you guys see that? Uh, maybe Matt, you saw it. I know you're, I keep kind of in the indie rock. The, um, the Cindy Lee diamond jubilee release was on geocities.com. That's fucking amazing. Oh, I got no, and it's an incredible record. And like, that was the, like you can get it on YouTube now, but I think when I was released, like you could only stream it via GSA and it was like legit, like pixelated, like when websites were good. X page like hometown.aol type, right, right, just like the century website ever. So it's still out there. So I'll say to you guys to link. Yes, please make the record. And it's great. Um, all right. So you guys run a pretty popular discord. I'm gonna go ahead and preface this was saying, I've used discord once, and it kind of intimidates me, but you are the wee johns. Um, so how did that come about? Do we still have John? Cause he is frozen. I'm sitting here thinking deeply how to do it, how to do the conception. The long and the short of it is so for anybody on Reddit, right? So there's there's always been the male fashion advice community. But there was a smaller Ivy community called Navy Blazer that was always still pretty antiquated and rigid, despite Dan and I's best efforts to kind of reshape it. And we wanted to start something that was more, I like to call it like Ivy without borders, right? I mean, like, like, I mean, you know, there's been so much going on with Ivy lately in the past few years that it's really trying to capture how Ivy style, you know, incorporates other styles like Milserp and Maricana and stuff like that. But also the inverse of that, right? Like other styles that capture Ivy style and to find a way to have a spot for the less rigid Ivy folks to kind of have a home. I think with that being said, we still have those of us that are more, you know, hardcore traditional Ivy. And those of us that are less Ivy, right? And I think you've had a few guests on who are on the discord. And so yeah, I mean, that's it, right? I mean, it's really to have a place to talk about, you know, Ivy in a contemporary sense. But we have a ton of Ivy nerds that, you know, can talk about will have conversations on like the different jetland sweaters and an Oxford cloth shirts and what the best things are there. So it's just kind of a, I don't know, it's it's what I've always kind of wanted on the internet as a home for myself, in terms of style. The that's, you know, more open to new thoughts in terms of Ivy, but also still a bit more boring, I think you could say than other places are. Okay. Yeah, I mean, John's done a great job with like kind of curating like the channels and just really the infrastructure of the thing. But I mean, it's just kind of a place to hang out, honestly, on the internet, if you're, you're interested in, you know, like really any type of men's style that's somewhat adjacent to Ivy. And I think, like John and I have similar tastes, but like, I've kind of gotten a little bit more like a Gorgi granola, like mill syrup to an extent. So like, just, you know, like if, you know, Ivy's kind of like your, you know, your, your base aesthetic, like what else can you do to kind of freshen that up or make it less stuffy. So, and then like, there's just a ton of wealth of knowledge to like, right, right, right. It's just like easy to hop in there and. And you guys your room, which I think is good. Yeah. Yeah. I don't forget what I think when the posts of non, uh, I don't know, like Ivy from meet various media. It's like, that's nice to see. So yeah, it's on the right. Dan is the rock star. So for anybody listening to this, our, the we john's account, uh, story feed, I think is one of the best spots on Instagram, if you're remotely into Ivy style, uh, and Dan. Or anything. Like, yeah, I mean, right. It's funny because like anytime I'm like, cycling through my stories, I'll get to the we john's account. I'm like, damn, that's good fit. Damn, that's good. And I'm like, oh shit, it's weaging. Okay. It's, it's Dan. Um, that's, that's like the highlight for me at least. Uh, and that's what I had the word I was going to use. I know which one of you it was. Well, I will say, we, we really, I mean, maybe John feels differently, but we have like no playbook on running this thing. It's kind of just, I mean, if you're talking to the right fucking people, because I also have no playbook on funding this, it's just kind of like, okay, we're doing this thing. It's getting tested. Yeah. I'm not saying that like we don't put in work to, to make a pocket of studs happen. And that fuck, I just referred to the show and the third person. I'm not about that. But like, yeah, they're, we're not trying, you know, as real as you make it. Yeah. We're, we're a DLI process with two people that just have an interest in, in what we do and try to do it to the best of our ability. And we both have actual full time lives. So yeah, I mean, ultimately, it's kind of like a medium to share like photos that we think are cool. And they like trying to be topical with it a little bit as well. I mean, like, obviously you've got, you know, some seasonality of, you know, bringing in different elements as the seasons change, but then like also, like what's going on on the internet today? Like, can you find a fit that's like, you know, going somewhat viral for, you know, or can you find an image that's going viral for some other reason and just find like actually this kind of kicks acts because of, you know, XYZ. So like, we've done that a couple of times and that's kind of like the fun aspect of just being creative and like we had the, the one dude in New York City who had like the most plain vanilla fit of like an Oxford and like six inch seams and then we had one of our guys photoshop like, like the sporadic tattoos, the dad hat, the mustache. I was like, holy shit, like it just looked like so like, like it just became so relevant out of nowhere. It was nuts. So it was just like fun stuff like that. I mean, with some, you know, goodhearted shitposting. Yeah, of course. Everyone loves a goodhearted shitpost. Yeah, I'd love to do more of it. But I mean, you know, Dan and I obviously both have full-time jobs and we're both dads. So it's, it's hard to do more. And I know you guys have kind of talked about this in the past with other guests, but it's, it's fun to share the knowledge you've acquired over the years with others, right? I mean, you can, you know, you may not agree with all of my opinions, like my thoughts on, on guilty tassels. Right. Right. Good, good. That's awesome. Stupid knowledge that I can share. And it's fun. I mean, it's fun to engage with people, right? And I mean, circling back to Discord, I think that's, that's the highlight of the Discord is that it's a good place to engage with other to talk about. Yeah, teaching is great. Like not to be all like, you know, numerous or whatever, but those spaces have disappeared in a lot of ways. Totally. Not everyone has adapted, you know, from the forum and blog, uh, period to now. Including us. Including us. I mean, we try, but like, I, I also, you know, like, the thought of going onto a message for it at this point in my life, I'm just like, "No, I'm good. Thanks." Because it'd be an ad every few posts, you know. Talk to me through, through like responding to my Instagram stories or by sending these stupid ass memes. That's, yeah. And, and every community develops its own culture and, and a lot of them devolve into circle jerks, uh, for lack of a better term, right? And, and I mean, some of them, you know, you end up with like a, a very much like an insider and outsider perspective. And that was one of my complaints to some of the, the writing communities before, um, the, the protests kind of happened and, and really destroyed those, right? I mean, it's kind of inevitable to a certain degree, um, when the majority is not often the right opinion. Yeah, that's right. Um, so yeah, I mean, you know, it's, it's fun to have a good space where, you know, I think our, our only firm rule is, you know, don't be an asshole. Yeah. That's a great rule to live by. Right. I mean, it's, it's really, it's a really low bar. Uh, but yeah, I mean, you know, you, you develop a good sense of community and, you know, no matter what you're talking about, whether it's clothes or stupid parenting shit or what somebody's up to on the weekend. Oh, and that's like really cute that there's like parents discussion there. I mean, you guys are, I just love it. I think it's great, right? But like, it's cool because we've been able to bring on so many different people. Um, right. Like, uh, Oxford cloth button down is on their, um, Zach, maybe Leon dad is on there. Um, you know, and it's fun. It's fun to go out and like find people who are kind of like, you know, appreciate something in their style and be like, Hey, you know, we've got this stupid thing going on. You should come join us. Yeah. Something I've seen a lot of on like Twitter recently is, you know, and I guess this has been a discussion for a while, but like, you know, living quote, unquote living online is not like living in real life. And a lot of the rebuttals that I've seen from my little ecosystem that I've constructed are like, like, we're real alive people and we're talking to other people that have similar interests on the internet. Like it's as real as making a friend at school or whatever the fuck. Definitely. And I think too in the post pandemic world, it like it feels like so much has changed in terms of like day to day life that like a lot of times it's easier. And I think a part of that is also just, you know, entering parenthood. It's easier to have those kind of communities where even though I can't go meet up with friends, you know, after work for a beer or whatever, I can still shoot the show with somebody. Right. Right. In a lot of, you know, a lot of interests are so niche that it's like, even in a city like Atlanta or DC or Baltimore, like, how do you find the people that are interested in the same shit? You can only find two or three well dressed people. Yeah, I'm not even saying that. I'm just saying across like in a general sense, like, you know, I know there's no there's no friend app. I mean, there's no like, it doesn't work. Can we get like a friend like Bumble Style app for menswear dorks or clothing dorks in general? And like, I guess that kind of sounds like what, what, you know, a lot of us lee johns and what they're trying to do. Yeah, right. I mean, I've hung out with with the brima a couple of times here in DC. I mean, that's the other thing, right? I mean, there's a handful of us that are in DC and kind of we still got to get you down one day. But, you know, I mean, we can have a meet up and shoot the shit. Yeah, that would be nice. Yeah, I'm kind of envious of the the DC and then the NYC guys and the alfargos guys. It's like, man, it's like the only place I really can like address up is like, go to a show, honestly, which is kind of a cutter. But like, yeah, it's like, you know, you go to show in a theater, it's like, I'd rather wear a sports coat there than, you know, try to, you know, like shoehorn that into a dinner or something. Right. Yeah, it's it's not as easy. Yeah. And it's different to be observed by people who know what you have done, you know, it's like, to have your stuff appreciated by people who do likewise is really important. The the daycare pickup line is always a funny spot, especially in the morning, right? It's like some days, you know, I'd have a good fit on. And sometimes it's normal, but you know, you always kind of think of yourself, like, you know, the other parents looking at you like, you're crazy. Because I mean, they don't understand like the context of what you're doing and any of that other stuff. But like, there was always one other dad who always had some killer fits in my daycare pickup line. And I'd be like, yeah, I got you, dude. I like that. You come here often? Yes. They kind of shit all the time. And no one ever likes the daycare pickup line friend connections. Right. Right. Right. So I want to do it actually on my kid's last day of daycare, one of the new dads wearing a J press hat. And I really wanted to say something to him, but I didn't have a chance to miss connections. That's right. So what what to read you guys to Ivy in the first place? And I think we chat about this last time. I don't think I really had a great answer. And I don't know if I really do other people than like, I think the first time I just kind of said, you know, like via osmosis, you know, it's just like, you know, growing up in the, you know, the 90s or whatever. I mean, that's just kind of what like parents were, you know, if you look back at old movies, it was like, oh, it's sports code or, or she knows or low for so what have you. So yeah, I don't know. I know you're definitely that's part of the pitch is that it's really familiar. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's elements that are comfortable to you. I don't think that like I really, I didn't, I certainly didn't like really grow up in that environment. So, you know, I was thinking more about it. And I don't know, I somehow kind of came through it and my, at least my hypothesis is like kind of, I guess through music is what I would say. At least that's going to be my, that's going to be my take on this just kind of like going, you know, back to the, you know, the odds or whatever, like, you know, like, you think about some of your mall brands or whatever and, you know, whether that's like Hollister A and F or whatever, it's like, all right, well, maybe I was listening to a lot of like Phantom Planet or something corporate or something and wearing flip flops and, you know, like the freight brim hat or what have you and then like, you know, kind of, you know, progressing to college. And it's like, all right, well, maybe I'm listening to like, you know, like the Walkman or Spoon or Vampire Weekend. It's like, okay, here are the boat shoes. And then, you know, here's the, the Levi's or like the Oxford shirt and then like just kind of over time, you know, you have, you know, it just developed and, you know, I think like mid, like pretty pandemic and probably mid 2010s, at least for me, that's when I was like really thrifting a lot and like finding a lot of cool pieces. And it's like, you know, you really can't, it's like, you find, you know, like a Brooks three and a half with ties. Like, you can't wear that, you know, with like a J crew Ludlow two and three quarters slim jacket or you can't wear it with like five 10s. So, I think, you know, just again, over time, you just kind of developed and it's like, all right, well, I'm gonna switch this out for maybe 501s or, you know, I'm getting rid of the boat shoes, I'm gonna go low for sale. I don't know that they just kind of snuck up on me to an extent. I don't know if that's a better answer than the osmosis, but that's, that's kind of what I was, you know, like, you know, brainstorming about and I think that's just, you know, kind of like, what happened and like, now I'm a little bit out on, I wouldn't say I'm out on IV, but like, you know, again, just kind of maybe a little bit more in like the, the granola or the, I really kind of like a lot of the mill syrup type, type fits that we're seeing now. So I don't know. And things change. So, I mean, I think that's probably what draws a lot of people to, to the Ivy style. It's like, you know, that can be your base, but then you can kind of pivot into other areas as well. Absolutely. Yeah. I think that like, that's an important aspect of, the kind of like clothing landscape right now is that like, you don't just have to be one thing and you can incorporate multiple, multiple vibes and pieces that are, fuck, I use pieces. Oh, yeah. One hundred percent. I hate that term, but you know, you can incorporate multiple garments into something that like, you kind of make yours. Right. Yeah. One hundred percent, you know. John, what about you? I mean, I, I, I kind of grew up with it to a certain degree, right? I mean, my, my, I would say my family is, your dad gave you a pair of Alton. So yeah, you might have been a little predisposed. I mean, yeah, right? I mean, my, it's funny though, because like growing up, so my dad and my uncle, both worked at like, men's work stores when they were in college back in like the sixties and my dad worked at Brooks Brothers. But like, I remember talking to him one day asking him if he knew what like a three, two blazer was, I mean, he looked at me like a head of a third eye. Yeah. Yeah. Right, which, which is a whole different conversation. But, but no, I mean, I always kind of grew up with it. I never saw my dad really in like sport coats and stuff like that, just because I think in the south, it's just too hot in general. But it's funny looking back because like my dad has always been, I think, very devoted to like the, the polo Andrew pants. And I think a lot of my style these days is reflected in what he wore, even though he never really wore like oxfords casually. I remember coming home one day wearing one and like a pair of denim and he's like, why are you wearing a dress shirt with jeans? And I remember being like, well, it's on the dress shirt. It's, you know, a casual shirt or whatever. And he was like, stop. But no, I mean, I'm honestly got same shit to me. And she like is clueless. Actually, it's a sports shirt dad. Yeah, right. You wouldn't understand, but back in the 60s, when you were in college, college students weren't even casually. No, I mean, it was always kind of there for me, right? And I went to Georgia as an SEC school and I was in Greek life there. So it's always been, you know, kind of maybe your trad or whatever you want to call it. But it's always been a bit of a push and pull at times. You know, I've got a crunchier side to me these days. And that's always kind of been there. I'm kind of a hippie at heart, I think. Which also kind of tracks with you going to UGA. No, right? Yeah, exactly. Right. I mean, I've always had a pair of track those and stuff like that. It's also you're really lucky that you missed the Peter Malar era of yeah, because holy shit. Yeah, I was at the start of it, where everybody was really starting to wear like the Nike game day polos, which I still have a couple because they're great when it's, you know, 100 degrees with 95% humidity. But yeah, I mean, you know, I think there's also a bit of me that's also kind of rejected that side of my family. You know, I mean, like one of my earliest clothing memories is like black jinkos. And so it's always been a bit of a pushback. And I think that's kind of how I've ended up where I am today. And Dan, to your point, I've noticed over the last year or so, I think I've kind of strayed more from like the traditional Ivy stuff that I've been wearing for the most part of my life and finding other cooler things and the ways that I can incorporate it. But it still feels like me. And you know, my wife always gives me a hard time for wearing like distressed jeans and high school, you know, jeans is like the paint splatter and holes that I'm but like, you know, I still have the double term this Levi's today. So it is what it is. I mean, right? I mean, you kind of, you, you learn things as time goes on. And then for me, a lot of it is also, I sent you guys a message in the Instagram chat, you'll have to take a look at the I think you'll appreciate. And like, so like, I can find like a lot of my style and what I was wearing in high school and college, but I like to think and hope that it's a better version of what it was back then. Wait, that's you. What's that? That's you. That's me. All right. I mean, it's, but I mean, if you take the pieces in isolation, it's really not different. I mean, it's funny because you can tell, but it's like, yeah, you look like an adult. You've learned a lot of good break is. That's right. Right. And those are, I think we're like, we're cut on one side to fit over my boots. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. And that's right. But I mean, but like, those are the fun things to like look back on. And I've got a picture of me wearing like Andrew pants from like the early 2000s, but you know, you kind of learn the language of your style. I think if you get more into it and you learn, for me, at least that was the interesting part, right? It's like learning that language, learning what the pieces are, you know, learning about three twos and stuff like that and then kind of finding a way to incorporate it into my stuff. Yeah. I mean, I think that's a very long winded answer. That's great. That's, that's what this show was all about. We have, we're windbags, both me and Connor. Surely. So you guys are, if no one has picked up on it at this point, you're, you're pretty anonymous, both of you. So is that, you know, Connor and I were both wondering, is that like a professional thing or, you know, you guys are obviously we Johns is pretty like, pretty well known amongst us nerds, but we don't know a whole lot about you. John, you never really seem to show your face. Is that right? Yeah, I've started relaxing that a little bit. I think part of it is being an older millennial. And like, I think you like growing up with the internet, like anonymity on the internet was, was always big and important. So I think that was it for a while. I've stopped caring as much lately, because I mean, it really doesn't matter at all. So yeah, but I mean, it's also, I mean, you know, when I post on Instagram or whatever, it's, it's more for me than anything else. So I, I don't really prioritize being known. It's just a good way to kind of catalog things. Yeah, and John's a little bit more well known than I am. Like, at least his, his, you know, public style account, like, I might as private, like, I don't have a style account at all, like, my Instagram is like photos of my kids and stuff. So yeah, which I also understand. So I mean, there's that, there's, you know, it's that to a degree, but then it's also just like, you know, like, I like, you know, like finding the photos and like curating and putting them together. But like, I don't know, I just, I'm really surprised that it's you. I don't have like, like, I will say my wardrobe and like, I don't know, like, my wife probably disagree, but like, I just don't think I have that great of wardrobe. If I'm being honest, like, it's funny, dude, you got to get out there. It's like, you do. It's like, you have the eye, like, you just got to get out there. So yeah, I mean, like, if I put something like, barely decent, like, I will drop it, you know, in the discord. And yeah, I think I've loosened up on them, you know, showing the face and then, you know, whatever. But yeah, I don't know. I think it's what I'm trying to unmask you. Yeah, it's just something we're okay. I have a better eye of like, what other people are doing than necessarily doing it myself, maybe to a degree. You know, if there's, you know, truth in that, but I don't know, I don't have like, I'm not the king of the Alden Loafers, you know, it's like, another one of my Ellen Edmonds Patriots that are all scuffed out from wearing them to the office. So yeah, that's the other thing, though, Dan, is that there are weirdos on the internet. And for anybody ever posted a low for a picture on Reddit, there's a dude, right? So many times, you feet sweaty, like, oh, that's, wait, is that the same? Is it the same, like, people, like, same dude. Yeah. And like, the handful of us, like, the, like, the regulars from, like, back in the Reddit days, everybody's had an experience with this person. And like, every, like, three months, somebody will post, like, a chain being like, yo, this dude's asking me if I like to wear, you know, socks to my loafers. Like, is anybody else run into this? And everybody's like, I know this dude. I love that you wear those LL Beanmock Loafers. Holy shit. I've never been more thankful to not really be a Reddit person. You could be on Instagram. He was like, yeah, but I love your shoes. Yeah. So not the game, but it's like, cool, dude, you can't like, it's proof that there's a fetish for literally anything. Yeah. Which I mean, like, out, even out there. Well, no, I'm talking about the loper and the sock thing, like, you know, that, like, that inherently, in my mind, has no sexual appeal whatsoever. And I would call it a foot fetish. Yeah, I can do this a foot fetish, but it's like a subcategory of a foot fetish. Yeah. And I told the dude, I'm like, look, man, you know, you do you, but like, you can't go hitting up people, asking them about their, like, sweaty feet and loafers. Like, you can't impose whatever your thing is on others, right? Like, you got to have it there. That's mutual. And like, stop asking me if I'm wearing socks in my loafers. This might be the most random place that this podcast has ever gone in a interview. Well, this is why there's anonymity on the internet. He's going like, what do you find out that I think is amazing? Yeah. You can find my link to my only last second hour in the, uh, in the description of this episode. Only last. Yeah, you've got your header is just the, uh, the Alden last, like, image that's been on the internet forever. Yeah. And then you can just, like, do sexy videos of your voice over, like an Edward Green one and a boss one and a Crocodone Jones one. Here we are. Everyone is subscribed. This is right. I'm so sorry. This, this way, I think it's 11 p.m. And, uh, this one fucking shows dead. Yeah. We're going to get canceled for talking shit on this dude that loves low person socks. I don't know. You know, it's funny. It's actually very funny. Yeah. I bet you there's at least one person listening to this who has run into that person on the internet somewhere. Right. Right. Yeah. Thank you. See, I thought I was fucking special. No. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. That's the lesson you're wearing. You all just have the world's worst reply guy in your DMS constantly. Oh, yeah. That's how it goes. But yeah, no, I, I've, I've, I've started to, um, care lots of anonymity, um, to bring us back on track. To bring us back on track. Yeah. Well, shit, man. It's been super fun. Um, definitely going to have to have you guys back on for part two or more in the part six. Yeah. Yeah. Well, technically to realistically six. I'll be sure to come with a better fit next time. No, you're, you're good, man. I'm jealous of the hair, if I'm being honest. So, um, but yeah, we always like to give the guests a chance to, uh, shout out whatever they would like their Instagram accounts, their escorts that they run, et cetera, et cetera, not leading you into anything. But, uh, yeah, both of you, give us your shout outs. Check us out on Lee John's with a Z on Instagram. Shoot us a message. I know it's, it's mostly a mood board account, but we love to chat. So if you have any questions or thoughts, hit us up. My personal account is leisurely loafing. Nice. And if, if you've made it this far, you will see that these dudes are great chatters. Very cool. Um, I will shout out my buddies band, shout out to Dave and Ian. Their band is called Squint. So you can find them on Instagram, Squint STL. Uh, they are actually, uh, currently abroad right now. So kind of doing their European tours. I don't know if they're in, you know, they started in Paris or, um, they might probably play in the UK or more Prague. But if, if you're in a hardcore, kind of a tinge of shoegaze and 90s all rock. All right. Yeah. And they've got some new singles that are pretty fun. So, uh, squint. Nice. I, I'm going to listen to this probably right after we get out of here. Cause I totally forgot to from the first time we did this interview. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Give it a spin. I'll give it a spin and it, it sounds like it's going to be up my alley. So I'll probably share it on my Instagram stories too. All right. Right on. Hell yeah. You heard it here first. You heard it here first. Squint STL. Also just personally, I like that STL and ATL are pretty easy, you know, city names. Maybe that's why I've always liked St. Louis. I hate the Cardinals though. Dude. So I had a bunch of family that worked on there and I hate them right now too. But I mean, yeah, like, I hate the Braves or the Falcons most of the time because they're self-loathing or do you, uh, and I, I mean, as you're aware, John, like we're choke artists. So I'm not a big sports person at this point, but you know, you always get to, or almost always get disappointed with, uh, Atlanta sports teams. So you think I like sports more because I, I love to be disappointed. Yeah. That's true. It is true. I mean, I turned off the Falcons game last night, but like four minutes left. What was the last time I I was like, I went to a show and some friends were watching it on the patio of the, the menu. Um, and it was like 15 to 10 Falcons and like the third quarter. That was the last time I saw what was the final score. This is like the 22 21, I think. Uh, I'm sorry. There's a pair of Allen Edmonds kiltsies in Facebook marketplace right now. But they, they're black bottoms though, which I like. Well, no, no, no, no. Hang on. Wait, are they, do they have like the bow on them? Are they like tied or are they like tassels? I don't want to click it. Oh, they're tassels. Yeah. Okay. No, that's a good one. The, the, the tied ones are fine as well. I like them both. Yeah. This is going to be one of those things. Connor sends me at some point in the near future. And I'm just like, please know. That's good. You'll say no and he'll buy it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know the deal. That's right. Anyway, y'all thanks. It's a child. All right. Yeah. Thanks for more time. Um, good catching up with you. Yeah. It's been fun. It's been fun. Yeah. That's a little bit looking forward to this for a while. Hell yeah. No one is going to jinx it, but I think it's going to be fine. Yeah. I don't know. I dropped a lot. No, it was good though. You were not really talking as far as I could tell. Yeah. I think we're, I think we're solid, but. Yeah, agreed. Yeah. Everyone, thank you for listening. Um, we are @apocalypseduds on Instagram, apocalypseduds at gmail.com. If you would like to send us a stray email, uh, then it'd be cool. Just tell us to shut the fuck up or compliment us. We don't really care. We just want to do that. Um, I am Matt Smith at Rebels Rugs. And I'm Connor Fowler at Connor Flower. And we will see you soon. Toodaloo at base. [BLANK_AUDIO]