Welcome everybody out to podcast number 1160. I'm here with Jennifer Lacey and we are going to talk, talk about hearing the voices of the people on our project site. Stay with us. This is the elevate construction podcast delivering remarkable content for workers, leaders, and companies and construction wanting to take their next step. Get ready to step out of your comfort zone with Chase and Schroeder. As he encourages you to do better, live a remarkable life and expect more. Let's go. Welcome everyone. I hope you're doing well. I hope you're ready for a jam and podcast episode. Miss Jen. How are you doing, my sister? I'm doing good today. How are you? Doing good. Can you tell everybody where we are? Yes. We are in Roanoke, Virginia. So I invited you up for a job site tour and just kind of to see some of the amazing things that this project team is doing. Yeah. And you had made a comment. It's non-IPD, like around a half a billion dollars and they're running it like it was an IPD job. They're running it like full lean, probably one of the highest performing lean jobs that I've ever been on. And I just happen to be partial because it's one of mine, one of mine. But it's we have a Rockstar leader out here that has really has taken it, does all the things you're supposed to do, check in the boxes and all the lean tools and all the things that we know help jobs do better. But I think the way that he balances it with the people part and connecting and being able to celebrate and just shine a light on his people has just in my mind, it is leading the industry. I agree. And we got seven lean videos. Yes. They're already sent to our video editor, so they'll be posted pretty soon. And people eat that stuff up. They love examples. So that's great. And we also got two great podcasts from Josh and it's been a great visit. So we have to tease Adam Hootz for not making it 100% so he had some people come up from what one that he sent and then one of his brothers. And so anyway, it was a it was a good visit and I'm sure we'll go back and give him some good tidbits. Yeah. And was the project director out here because we were tour or was he out here anyway? So Marshall is that so Marshall Josh and I are actually presenting tomorrow over Genia Tech. So we're doing we're doing a guest lecture for Virginia Tech for intro to lean. So yeah, so we were I was already going to be out. So this was today was actually the extra day, even though you wouldn't know that. Yeah, oh, oh, OK, OK, 10 for it, 10 for it. Well, I'm glad I made it out here. It's fantastic. So every so I've been pestering Jennifer with questions about life, personal life. What things I do wrong? You should do better. All the things and I got to hear her talk about something that's been on her mind and her heart lately about hearing people's voices. Did you mind sharing some thoughts around that? Absolutely. So this this I guess how I got clear on my purpose and again, I have roles and responsibilities within Robins and Morton, but I also do a lot of things outside of Robins and Morton and it has a lot to do with people and in community and tribe and connectivity and just all of those things. And so recently, Jesse and I were prepping for Jesse Herndon as an I were prepping for a class that we had and one of it is how to how to how to tell your how did you think how to use storytelling to really be able to connect to people and through that, we have an exercise and so and we kind of practice the exercise and then it was like, what is your like, what is your purpose? You know, well, what is what is the reason that you show up? And it got me thinking because I don't know if I really articulated it. And so my answer to it was I want to not only make sure people feel like they have a voice, but I want to make sure that all their voices are heard. Yeah. And you made a, well, did I interrupt? Nope. You made a comment which I loved it and it got me thinking, let me see if I can remember it. You said it's not just that people deserve to be heard. It's that, let me see if I can not butcher it. It's that you want everybody's voice to matter and to be heard on a project site. And that ties, did I say that right? Yes. Would you, would you correct anything? Okay. And that ties into like even the stuff that we're reviewing on the project today about connection, right? Everyone just wants to matter. You know, actually, so the, there's a framework, have you read the power of mail by Eckhart Tully? Yes, I have. Yes. And that that's probably, and I don't, I definitely don't want this to offend anyone who might be religious. I look at that as a really like spiritual enlightenment, like wonderful book. And he has this dualistic opinion of that our true selves, our, our consciousness can be in control of our brain and ourselves, our ego, right? And that a lot of times we're on autopilot and we're in control. We're under the control of our egos. And it's not that our egos are evil. It's trying to keep us safe, right? But there's this, there's this dualism and we can be present or we can be not present right in our ego. And so it, I was thinking about it either way, whether it's, whether it's you being present, that presence would require a connection. And if it's your ego, egos are quieted when they are, when they feel important and they're included. So either way, it's a, what would you call that? Duality? Yeah. And it's a win-win. It's a, it's a good idea either way to hear people's voices. So if somebody was a money first, jerk monkey, just getting, I promise Jenna would be more connected. If somebody was a money first person, bottom line says, you're going to have a better business when you get people's voices heard anyway. Correct. Any thoughts in that? No, I kind of agree. And sometimes there are people that that is what drives them. Yeah. And you are still going to need to create relationships and build connections to be able to get more work. Yeah. And so I, even if that is what drives you, there is still that, that human connection that you're going to have to create with people. Yeah. To be able to sustain it. Yeah. You know, and it's, it's so funny. I don't want to get too much into, well, I don't want to get into politics at all. But like, it's almost like men and women have got to learn it with their children and their spouses to learn to respect and be empathetic of their family's experiences and listen and be strong enough to hear hard things. Right. Yes. And with your friends and at work and everywhere else, right? And let people be seen because like where it shows up in my life is, Kate will be like, well, 20 years ago, you did this. And I'm like, well, what the hell like that was 20 years ago? But I'm dismissing her. I'm like, she needs, she wants to talk to her friend. This hard thing happened. I feel pain, whatever, you know, and I've got to be either either go away. If I'm not present and come back present and give that opportunity, right? And be like, tell me about it. Like I want to hear. And I feel like that's no different than a form in being abused, pushed around, pay applications withheld, blamed, you know, no bathroom, no lunchroom for after GC after GC for the last 40 years. Is wounded, has pain, wants to be heard, is tired of general contractor shit. And we've got to be a bit, we've got to be able to say, yeah, I see that there's pain there. Let me hear it out, right? Let me feel like I've gone on a tangent. But no, no, no, it makes sense. I just woke up from my, my, I think I blacked out there for a minute. But like, I like, I just don't know that it's very much different. Like we get to be strong enough and be connected to actually form real relationships on the project site with people who have pain that they need to feel hurt. Is that anywhere close? Yeah, it's the hard part. It's the hard part. It's for me. And again, I'm a mom of two, two daughters. And it's easy for me to project what I think they should be doing, or my opinions, or this is what this is, what I think is a better choice. Like it's easy for me to project those things on them. And if I don't stop and ask the questions and kind of hear where they are, then they're going to be less receptive to what I'm saying anyway. And so like, I need to hear them. Same thing. If I look at that and I equate that to the project sites is I can, I can ask people. We, there's been experiments where, you know, people like, Hey, how are you doing? Or Hey, good morning? Or how are you doing? And people just keep walking and they don't stop. And like, if they ask the question, then they let the person answer. Yeah, yeah. And, and, and I was reading something, reading something recently about just when you're engaging with someone else and they're, and you ask them a question and their, their reaction normally is going to be a very short one. It's going to be a very, you know, just yes, no very, you know, very short response. But like, if you can ask the right questions, the open ended questions, the interesting questions where they can't just say yes or no. And then you stop and you actually listen to what they're having to say. And because of their responses, you then can ask more interested questions because you're gauging your next questions on their responses, then they feel heard. And then they're going to leave that interaction and they're actually going to feel better about whatever, whatever they're doing next. I like that. And even I like the kid analogy. By the way, when we compare people to children, I think that's probably more of a compliment because I don't treat anyone as well as I treat my answer. I like the utmost respect. But if we tell them and project, like you said, they're just going to shut down. They're not going to receive and just do whatever they want. And trades will do the same thing. Oh, you're commanding, controlling me and dictating a schedule. I'm just going to do whatever I want and that's not going to work. So aside from that, why do you want people to have their voices here? I think I agree and I love it. Tell me why. Well, I think for me, it really starts in a personal place. It starts in a personal place is that we always come into situations pre-conditioned. And it's not sometimes all our fault. It's just our environments, our backgrounds, our traumas, our triggers, whatever all those things are, we come in and we're kind of pre-conditioned to what people should do. We should on people. But we come in and we have these. They should know this or they should act this way. And for me, I have a daughter that struggles with anxiety. She's diagnosed with it and it's, you know, we have to go and kind of work through a lot of situations with it. And it is translated into school to where now like we've made some accommodations to help her in school so that she can receive better so that she can learn and she can grow because she's very intelligent. And then if I take that situation and I apply it to my jobs and my, my training classes and stuff like that, I can come in and I can go through my PowerPoint or I can go through my slides or I can do interactive activities and I can ask open and do questions, which is what we just talked about. There's still going to be people in that room that don't talk. Yeah. There are people in that room that are terrified that I'm going to call on them or that they have to stand up or that they have to speak. You know, there's, and so am I doing them a favor by pushing them outside of that comes on, maybe, maybe not. So I have to be aware of everybody has a voice. Everybody has a story. Everybody has something to say and they're in that room for a reason. So how can I push them a little bit, but also help their voice to be heard. And some of it, sometimes it is looking at the trauma and getting them in a group and set it by themselves or, and so being able to make those connections to see that everyone, well, how can I create the environment and to where they feel that they are safe and that they can share the things that are on their heart. And you, I was going to ask you if there's times where sometimes you have to just sidebar it was the person when I went. I think you may have answered that, but you'll, you'll, you'll see if you can get them into a group. Yeah, I'm, I'm not, it's funny. I'm not, I'm not a sidebar person. There's many times I'm sure where I've had to do that, but I'm, I, I really pride myself on focusing on watching people. Okay. And if I see someone that is disengaged, or if I see someone that is maybe not as engaged, I create, I, my default is to, I have activities already built in that to draw that person in because I can ask them a question that, that they're excited about answering, but I also for those that are disengaged, I, and I tell Jesse, it's a cheat code. So now everyone's going to know it. But if I have someone in a room that's very disengaged and I know their title usually I know what their job is and I know kind of why they're there, it's very easy. Now every time we do an example and you and I are talking and I'm like, you're a safety guy and I'm, and you're disengaged and you're not paying attention to what I'm doing. So now as we are going through this exercise and be like, like Jason, he's safety. So if we had an issue, Jason was safety and you were the person that now is going to have to come and do the report, like, how would y'all worry about when Jason showed up on site? So now I've said your name. Now everyone's looking at you because you're part of my example. You can't not be engaged. So then now you get to now you're kind of, you're, you're not a celebrity, but you're kind of part of the, the, the training. And now you're engaged with the people in the room. And then I get to kind of go, okay, Jesse, what would you do? And everyone, you know, everyone's looking and watching because they want to know. So again, there's ways that I can pull people in both ways. That's very, that's, that's a very talented approach. I, so you must be a career educator. So I have a, I have a question for you. Um, so you, you had mentioned, you, you noticed something. So when on the job tour, you said, so I was focusing on videos and I got to do this and blah, blah, like, uh, not reading the behaviors, but you were reading the behavior. And I actually see, see you watching me sometimes and see if I'm picking up on behaviors, which is kind of funny, but, um, you had mentioned that you noticed about the jobs that team that there is safety on, because they did a, uh, craft worker lunch, craft worker lunch. And instead of them going right back to work, because they know what's important to the boss, they felt comfortable to talk a bit and to relax and like it was a safe environment. So if the key is, um, you want people's voice to be heard because they're safety. Let's talk about that. How do you create safe environments on a construction site? Well, I think part of it is, I mean, we were going to use the word culture. It's very big, but if you're creating the environments to where historically, and today I'm sure it was not their first safety lunch or their first craft worker lunch, and this job has been going on for three years. And so for what we witnessed today, not just the, the behaviors after the lunch, but during the lunch, people that got up in front of a room full of 60 people and talked about some very heartfelt things. And people that, you know, other people in the room that were leading and, you know, and giving examples and celebrating each other and high-fiving and stuff like that. Like just watching the environment, having no idea what's going on outside of this room. It was very apparent that they felt safe, that they felt like they were supported, that they had a voice. Some of them a little louder than others. That's okay. But I mean, they felt, but I mean, it was, it was, it was an environment that you can tell that this is something that has been built and cultivated. It wasn't just, hey, it's safe. Y'all, when y'all come in, you can say what you want to say. Cause I was just thinking about the, the, is there like a grand key or some one thing that you do? And it really, like when I think about culture, it's the, well, this is simplified by the common actions and beliefs of the social group, right? What they accept and they don't accept. Even if the leader was like, I'm a safe environment and a person can speak up. There's also the other human beings in the interaction, right? So listening to your talk, now I understand like it's multifaceted. So it does what you're saying have to become a culture that everyone buys into, which means that it should be stated and practiced. Right. OK, so that makes a whole lot more sense to me. And I feel like I've been asking a quite a few questions here. So take this wherever you want to take it with the, with the topic. What else would you want to say about hearing people's voice or your passion recently, or maybe maybe it's you're closing this out and giving us a challenge, either one. Yeah, I think I mean, I can think I can do both. I think that, and I said this again, and I probably said it on one of your, one of your podcasts before, but I believe in my heart, people just want to matter. OK, and I believe when they get up in the morning, they don't have intention to go and get hurt. They don't have intention to go and cause, you know, dollar, you know, dollars that are going to cost somebody else money. Like I don't think they show, they wake up in the morning and that is their goal. Yeah. I feel like they want to go to work and they want to work. They want their work to matter. Yeah. And I think that it doesn't take a lot for someone to recognize and see someone doing something very hard or doing something that maybe, you know, is, is work that could cause mental pressure as well as physical pressure in our industry. That is both and for us to be able to alleviate that, just a tiny bit by just showing recognition and showing gratitude and it's simple. Like, and so that's my, I guess, going into the challenge. And that is the way I try to show up is every interaction that I have, every person that I engage with. Am I showing appreciation? Am I showing gratitude and letting them know like, Hey, like what this, this one thing you've done or you showing up, are you doing this or, you know, I, you know, giving somebody something, just something less than I see you and what you're doing matters. And like, so that when they leave, they feel, you know, they feel like, Hey, somebody saw me today. So that's just like, like, what are you doing? I guess that's the challenge. Yeah, and that is, I, I don't know. Well, I'll just go ahead and share. I don't, I don't, you haven't checked the sources on this, but I remember seeing a YouTube short about a person who was talking about death by suicide investigators in San Francisco. There's quite a few people who will die by suicide off of the bridge. And when they go and do the investigations, they have to find out, you know, it wasn't murder or was it suicide, right? And so they'll retrace the steps, look for a note. And one time they found a note where the individual wrote from here to the, to the location. If one person says hi to me or, or smile, it's hard to say, or smiles or says hi, I'll come back. And that just reinforces like people do want to be seen. They want to know that they exist and that they're a part of this beautiful thing that we call life. And you know, the reason it matters, I guess to me is that like, I do believe in like going to other countries and drilling wells. And I do believe in health and I do believe in donating and I do believe in nonprofits. I do also believe that we can affect more people day to day and construction than any other avenue, at least in my personal life. Like we're talking thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds and thousands of people just by helping them matter. So it's a big deal. It is and it's not. And there's so many things you can do that don't cost anything. Yeah, a smile, a hug, a just, you know, just something that just lets people know they that you see them. I love that. Okay. Well, thank you for being in this podcast. And I hope everybody's really enjoyed this. And one, two, three on we go on we go. Please join us next time in elevating the entire construction experience for workers, leaders and companies coast to coast. 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