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CJ Abrams Demoted | 'Bustin' Loose Baseball'

From 'Bustin' Loose Baseball' (subscribe here): News broke on Saturday morning that All-Star SS CJ Abrams has been demoted to Triple-A Rochester, being replaced on the Major League roster by INF Trey Lipscomb. Grant Paulsen & Tobi Altizer discuss what this means for the future of the Nats young star and whether or not this puts his next steps in his development at a crossroads. Plus, hear from Manager Davey Martinez on the reasoning behind his demotion.

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Broadcast on:
24 Sep 2024
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It's an emergency Boston loose baseball after CJ Abrams was stunningly sent to the minor leagues on Saturday afternoon for a behavioral punishment you'll hear from Davey Martinez, and we've got thoughts. Let's get to it. Boston loose baseball starts now. This is Boston loose baseball episode 151 in emergency five, because none of us saw this coming. CJ Abrams set to the minor leagues optioned down to the minors at a point where the minor leagues didn't end up there. Where the minor league season is ending the final game for the national AAA affiliate Rochester's actually tomorrow. So he's not even being sent down to play. He is going to West Palm Beach to basically hang out and work out with a bunch of other minor leaguers are going to stay in shape in case the nats need reinforcements and their final week of the season. The reasoning, we can get it all the specifics Toby, but the reasoning is that he got in trouble with the front office. There was a tweet by somebody in Chicago saying that he was seen leaving the casino at eight in the morning before a one o'clock local time game on Friday. And obviously Mike Rizzo investigated whether it was talking directly to CJ or however they needed to dig in to find out what happened. They deemed that he was out all night long into basically the time where you would go straight over to the ballpark. And they sent him to the minor leagues. Yeah it's completely unacceptable and it's something that you know last year we saw Luis Garcia gets sent down earlier in the in the month but around a similar sort of idea right just an immature player and you cannot have that sort of thing and it's been such a rollercoaster ride for CJ this year where he had an all-star first half he struggled in the second half he comes back and then you got this like it. It's so disappointing it's one of those things Grant where you know I know a lot of fans are going to be frustrated with this whether they don't like the decision or they're going to be frustrated with CJ. And it's one of those things like I've always felt like he works hard so I don't feel like it's something where he doesn't have the work ethic and he's getting to the ballpark and doing what he needs to. But when you do this sort of stuff you get in your own way with that like how good is it if you're going to put in the work but you're you're not getting the rest that's necessary. It's just it's unacceptable behavior and it's one of those things that if you're frustrated with the organization I think you're in the wrong here because I think they needed to send a message especially for a young clubhouse and you know it seems like James Wood is is a good guy that understands that he can't be doing that sort of stuff dealing crews the same sort of thing but you have to send a message that if they were to think that this was a good idea to spend you know a night out of the casino or doing whatever till eight a.m. before a day game it's completely unacceptable and they're sending a message not only to CJ which hopefully he understands that and he gets the message but to the entire baseball team and the entire organization of guys coming up you cannot be doing this you have to conduct yourself as a professional and I think it's a good thing that they're doing this. So I got a text from someone over there who's got a pretty good feel for what it's like in the clubhouse and the gist I got was first of all players were floored they were shocked and also that that guys were pretty shaken up and just surprised. But I think that's the goal here if you're Mike Rizzo and I'll use Rizzo's name more than the Nationals because to me this really feels like a Mike Rizzo move this is Sean Kelly throwing his glove and hat or whatever it was you know getting DFA this is as you said Luis Garcia being out of shape and not putting in the professional day to day work that he's supposed to and getting sent to the minors 12 months ago in September. That has this feel to it this feels like it was Mike Rizzo saying I won't tolerate that. Now the lead here is CJ Abrams so that's where we should stay but I do want to say number one that I categorically don't have any issue with them sending him down as much as I love CJ. For a couple of years, I've been a CJ Abrams guy I am a big big proponent and believer of the skill set. I still think there's a chance there's a superstar in there but this is a crossroads moment for him and beyond just not having an issue with what they did I actually support it I applaud it. I think in a lot of ways whether it's you know with the media now as I'm sure he's going to be upset with some of the coverage today with you know more importantly baseball like he's going to have to decide how do I want to go forward here. If you're not on me did I make a mistake I'm going to own up to it. I'm going to change my ways I'm going to kick some ass and end up being a superstar player who doesn't just have two incredible months but ends up being one of the best short stops in baseball which is the skill set he's got. Or are you going to be a year to year type guy and after this lengthy stay in Washington are you going to go get $150 million you know $200 million extension and be a real stud or you got to decide what you want to be. And this is you know just my own nerdy thing as someone who's you know used to be a beat reporter and feels like I'm you know moonlight sometimes as a journalist even though I'm mostly now just give my opinion. I hate the bit of people outing players when they see them in public doing something I think it's bad for business I think it's bad for everyone. I have no real respect for it just as an aside. I won't even give credit to you know the person that had it but there was essentially someone that came out and said source CJ Abrams was at Bally's casino in the loop until late in the morning. Perhaps fade him on the books and I've even seen where whoever that was I don't know the person at all it might be a great guy. They're like taking pride in you know I'm Jeff passing breaking the story taking a victory lap now these have been sent down like the whole thing is embarrassing to me in that regard. In my opinion on that doesn't change like I am completely out on whatever form of that's not journalism but like tweeting that is having said that it became public it became something that was out there. If you're Mike Rizzo in the Nationals if you're David you've got to click on it you got to say hey is this true like what the hell man. I mean even if you know that a guy likes to get after it a little bit and I don't know the specifics on Abrams but if he's 23 is young he's resilient you know if you know you've got a player who parties or likes to go out. There's a big difference between going out after a game for a couple hours for a couple of pops and not coming back into late. And at that point Toby I don't know the deal I guess you could go get an app or whatever but I mean players normally get to games like day games we're talking about it like. You know for a one o'clock local start guys are getting in early in the nine o'clock hour so you're at a point where you might just be going straight from wherever you were to the ballpark and we don't know all the specifics and I guess we have to throw in allegedly and all this stuff but they sent him down for a reason after they investigated this so it's just not a good look overall. But I think this is a message being sent by the Nationals in a young clubhouse both to Abrams to say dude you got a chance to really be great do you want to be or not. And to the rest of this clubhouse Toby I think that's almost as important because he's the 23 year old veteran face of the franchise essentially. There's really not a big time like who's going to grab him by the collar and say what the heck are you doing man you can't do that. He's the guy that's supposed to be doing that theoretically in this lineup right now. You can tell me like El tomorrow Vargas and with international guys I think there's some of that with him. Like he's not going to you know him and CJ have a good relationship and maybe he could be that guy to an extent. But when that guy is a bench bad it's just different. Hopefully this is a wake up call to the learners that they got to spend a little bit of money to get a veteran in this clubhouse. To help run things a little bit. Yeah I mean it's disappointing because you know when we were down in spring training they were talking about how CJ had increased his leadership abilities and he had been a quiet leader and improved in his voice in the clubhouse. And it felt like he had been someone that the guys could depend on for the first half of the season. And yeah he struggled some but it still felt like he was someone that was important but this clearly isn't you know a one time thing it feels like Grant. Like you know if it's if it's a one time deal and yeah it's a little more public because someone tweeted it out then maybe that would have been the case but this feels like something where they needed to send a message. And it's almost one of those things where it's almost a parental sort of message grant where it's not even necessarily that like you know you're incredibly frustrated by the action and everything. It's one of those you're disappointed because the potential is there. It's one of those things where you got to get him to realize that he's got so much potential and he can be great that you need him to lock in and be able to reach that potential. And so you know I feel like he's put in the work all season long and he's done the things necessary but you got to get out of your own way with this off the field stuff and you know thankfully it's nothing that's illegal. It's nothing that hasn't been trouble with the law so you know it's something that he can come back from and you feel good about that but it's really disappointing that you have something like this and you have to send the message to a clubhouse because you're right I mean in most club houses. You know you have a Bryce Harper or a Pete Alonzo or you know one of these older guys maybe Paul Goldschmidt and a Cardinals locker room think think of some older Wiley vet that can grab a guy and say hey man. We saw this report figure it out and you can kind of fix it to your point who's doing that in the next clubhouse James Wood's not doing that Dylan Cruz I don't think is doing that. And even if they do I don't know that they're in a spot to do that right now so it's kind of up to Davey and I mean is Patrick Corbin going to do I just don't think there is somebody. And so when you have one of your young leaders doing something like that it's it's just unacceptable he can't have that sort of behavior. Thankfully it's something that hopefully he can come back from and it's you know a a message that gets sent and he can learn from because we saw this with Luis Garcia last year with not the same sort of issue but more so not keep taking care of your body. And at that point tobs on Garcia I got the quote in front of me from last year when Rizzo was on 106 7 the fan with the junkies after he sent him down. He basically lit into him right this was September 6, 2023 he said it was a preparation assignment. We wanted him to go down there and learn a routine, learn how to prepare for each and every game in the big leagues. He went down there and has really tightened up his time in the weight room batting gauge video room. He's really gotten himself in great shape he's lost several pounds, which is one of the things we wanted him to work on when he got down there. And he's playing second base for us every day. And to your point he's had a career year and may end up being the next player of the year when they tabulate all the media votes, you know we'll see what happens there but he obviously understood the assignment. Like he didn't take it as a slap in the face he kind of took it as a love tap. He said look okay I got one more shot I can't screw it up. They're different right because that to me is like professional malpractice like please just take your your your life line in the big leagues your your livelihood is the word I'm looking for. Yeah take a serious take just work out you know beat me and I'm fat I eat chicken tenders like I can be fat and do radio although I should probably with kids should not be as fat which we could talk about another time if you want to but now it's not the right time. Like there's no excuse for that when you're a big league baseball player that that is your livelihood so to speak. And I say that to say like with CJ similarly you're going to take this one of two ways. You're going to Luis Garcia this thing and come back better on the other side and the ultra motivated in February or you're going to you know you got wrong you're the victim screw the team they don't understand the media is the bad guy. Like we're going to see what kind of process he implements now moving forward right so I'm very very curious about that but I'll say this I've always loved CJ Abrams that did not change today or this week. Like he's he is a last to watch. I love his swag. Use the word or a lot with Dylan Cruz I love the way he you know a pimp a home run and just the vibes he brings to the team. He's a really really fun young player. I will tell you that just from a sheer performance standpoint he was coming out of his slump. He was hitting 420 with an 11 20 ops in the last week and he really started to see the baseball better eat a four hit game in there so I think anybody who thinks that that was part of it is just wrong. And in fact Davey Martinez essentially ended I think that thought altogether in his post game or pregame press conference. This is what Davey Martinez told the media about the CJ Abrams decision. Well apparently you know as you all know we optioned CJ down today. And I just wanted to be known it wasn't performance based. You know it's an internal issue. I'm not going to give specifics or talk about specifics because of. I need to keep these guys and everything you know on the down though. I mean I got all the guys out there that I want to support. I'm going to support CJ. He's a big part of our Nat's family and he will be. But at this point it's you know for me it's the right thing to do. So with that being said you know I had conversations with CJ yesterday. We talked for a while and like I said for right now it was the right thing to do so. And that's all I really want to say about it you know. You know he's going to be missed you know as we all know. But it has nothing to do with his performance I mean the kid was a twenty thirty guy so. I know he struggled a little bit but so does every young player but he was doing well. He was okay but we had a moment so we sat here and we we weaved together. But as I always say you know for me it's about taking care of the person first and not the player. And I'm going to do everything I can to help him. So I love the kid he's a good kid and he's going to be back. That kind of decision I'm sure you weighed heavily about how he will respond to him. Whether he responds with the right way or the wrong way. What about you tells you that he will take this and become better for him. I assure you that he'll be better. He will be. I mean we talked a long time yesterday and last night before we made any decisions. And I know that he wants to be here. He expressed that very much. You know he says you know he's going to miss his teammates. But like I said you know without getting into any details this to me it was the right thing to do. When you mentioned the other guys in the clubhouse what is the message that you delivered to the team or something like this. Yeah you know I haven't talked to them yet we'll have a little meeting later on. But you know like I said I'm more as you guys know me. You know I'm more concerned about the person, the people you know. And I'm going to do everything and not just to help him on the field. We'll have to feel as well. So we're going to handle this very professionally but internally. Was this the one time when it was a combination of multiple dangerous. Like I said I'm not going to get into any details. Just logistically because there's only one game left in Rochester season. Does he go there? Does he go home? No he's going to DC and then from there we send him to Florida. You know he's going to go to Florida and continue to work out there. And we got a bunch of guys going to leave in there tomorrow. So he'll work out down there. So like guys that stay ready in case you need to bring someone back. Yeah I mean so I wanted him to continue to go to practice and play. And he agreed to go to Florida. How does this feel? You just know you devote your relationship with CJ. You've got to know me. I'll tell this to you. Oh this is I mean this you know. My emotions were all over the map you know yesterday. And today you come even come back in this office knowing that we sat here. It was tough. Like I said this is I'm hoping that he understands and that he becomes a better person and understands what his job means here for us. The Natz family. So yeah we're going to get it right and he's going to help us win games. He said he's going to Florida now. Does this impact his off season program? Will he stay? No he'll stay. He'll go there just to the end of the season just like the rest of the guys will. And then he'll he'll start his off season program. And I thought that was important for them to do that Toby because they have kept it super vague. Then you kind of miss your chance to say that this is in fact it's a send the message right? That this is in fact about off field stuff. Now you don't have to embarrass him. You don't have to say he was out all night. You don't have to confirm any report. But anybody who has done three seconds of research on this will find out why you're upset with him and connect the dots pretty easily. Yeah I mean it's he started to play well. And if it were a performance issue then you would have moved on from other players. So it's clearly not the case there and I have no issue with them doing this. And I think it's one of those things where CJ is probably feeling it in the second half. He's frustrated. He hasn't had the same sort of second half that he had in the first half. And he's you know probably going through some things where it's a long season. And he felt like he needed a release whether it's you know just tonight or he's found something where he can just kind of let loose and get away from baseball. The key is though you have to find a way to do it in a mature way where you're not out to 8 a.m. There's no issue with him going out and hanging out and doing whatever until even 1 a.m. or 2 a.m. or something like that. You know with a day game maybe they have I don't know what their curfew is. I don't know what their stipulations are but there's no problem with the going out and being an adult and you know a nice city like Chicago and doing some things. Do whatever like that's fine. But you can't do it to an irresponsible time. And the message that they're sending here grants is you know this is a ball club right now that's playing for nothing. That's fine. You know if you go out and do that and you go over 3 the next day it ultimately isn't going to matter. What happens if next year you're in a pennant race and you're out till 8 a.m. and you're in a ball game that could decide the fate of your season and you go 0 for 3 that day with 3 strikeouts. That's what they're trying to tell people is you know right now whatever your results really don't matter that much. But when this thing matters which is hopefully as early as next season you cannot have that so you have to create those professional habits. And it sucks that a player of his stature and you know as important of the franchises he is he's the one that gets made an example of. But he's also the one making the mistake like this and you know hopefully this is something that teaches him and the rest of the guys in the organization that this is unacceptable and you know they're clearly sending a message here. It's disappointing because there are other ways that if CJ is frustrated he could have gone about talking to Davey and maybe talking to Rizzo and they could have found ways to help him along so that he's you know if he needs a little bit of a break or something. But at the same point you know when you do something like this and it gets publicized like I agree with you it kind of sucks when someone goes out there and publishes someone else's business like that online. But now that it's public they kind of need to make a message and tell everyone in the organization this isn't acceptable and it starts with CJ as well. And that's what they're doing and hopefully the guys get the message. Totally and I would just add this though too you talked about what if this were to happen when they're in a playoff push which is a fine point. I would even say it's not even that complicated. I think for them to get where they want to go they need CJ Abrams to be exceptional. Right this season has to be kind of the floor moving forward. They could do really well if they spend some smart money and James would become the superstar and Dylan Cruz is a really good player. If CJ Abrams annually is just a guy who it's 250 with a 750 OPS with 20 homers and 30 steals you can do a lot worse than that okay that's a fine baseball player. But they have a legit shot with CJ Abrams to have a perennial all star who is better than that. 25 homers 50 steals right like 25 homers 45 steals and a 265 or 270 average and an 800 OPS and I think this is just more about really like you said it is a message sent to the other players. But I think this is a direct line to CJ you're now 23. You're not a you're young but you're not a kid this is 380 games about 1500 at bats into your big league career even in the big leagues off and on for now three seasons. Right. What do you want to be how seriously do you want to take this thing. Now I don't know and I'm not alleging anything I'm this is not like informed speculation okay. But it would seem to me a little bit surprising. Although still understandable if they did this after this one incident today and they never had had any kind of other issues with like behind the scenes or any kind of nerves about off the field. You know going out late type stuff. It is possible I guess that he's normally in before midnight every single night. And this is the first time they've ever heard anything like this and they just wanted to send a message I feel worse for CJ frankly if that was the case. But my guess is when something like this happens. There's a lot of thought that goes into it. And there's only a straw that breaks the back situation. And I just think this is a like Mackenzie Gore is going to have to be really good for this team realistically to be competing for the playoffs. In a year or two CJ Abrams is another guy a guy I'd say the same thing about. I don't even know if it's as complicated as like what if this were to happen again when dot, dot, dot. No, no, no. How do we make sure that CJ Abrams comes in in April ready to have the best year of his career. And some of the things those like immature type things that they want to rip out of his game are gone. And I think they just decided you know what we got a week of the season left. We got a golden opportunity here to send the message we want to send very loudly. Let's do that. And I'll be redundant here but. This podcast if we haven't named it already. You know should be that the CJ Abrams is at a crossroads was a bone thugs and harmony I think. Who had crossroads the great song like. To me we're about to find out like if this is a motivator or if this is. CJ Abrams decides to get upset about how they treated him here. Yeah and it's one of those things where we've talked about with Luis Garcia I know we keep referencing that but they they've talked about how they had a meeting with both of those guys together and it was kind of like all right. You're going to have to grow up and they kind of held each other accountable a little bit and you know for a lot of the season it felt like it was going a lot better and both guys seem to be taking some strides and you know it seems like a little bit of a slip up here and. Hopefully it's something that gets through to CJ you're right it is a crossroads and hopefully it's not something that turns him off of the organization and he comes back and mopes and those things. But he's had these sort of meetings before maybe not to this extent where he gets demoted because last year remember it wasn't just Luis Garcia that was under the microscope CJ responded to the meeting last year and that's why he stayed in the big leagues Luis Garcia did not respond and he gets sent down so. You know this year he ultimately gets the emotion hopefully it's something that wakes him up and also it's just protecting him right it's one of those things just making sure you don't end up in trouble like if. If going out to the casino at eight a.m. and staying there is the worst thing that happens for CJ Abrams career and he comes back and ends up being a fantastic ballplayer. Then that's not a big deal we'll come back and look at it is okay but you're ultimately keeping him away from some of the bad things that can happen when you do those sorts of things and you know it's obviously not professional as a ball player to do that as well so. It's a clear message to the guys and I think that CJ is going to respond. Hopefully well and he's done it before and hopefully he comes back next year and is even better for it but like you know you tweeted it out it's so clearly a message for them that he's not even going to go down and play baseball he's just going to go down and hang out West Palm Beach and stay ready and it's just it's disappointing I think you know they basically were like you're off the team man it's not like yeah you can't just send him to the miners to play game stoves he's just. He will be lifting weights in West Palm where we go to spring training and interview like for a week and then he just goes and does whatever he was going to do in the off season well and I'm curious to how this is going to affect you know selfishly for us his relationship with the media he's going to talk to us and you know he was already kind of short answers and I'm curious to see how that affects him. To be frank though I don't that doesn't matter it needs to be about his performance on the field and when he comes back hopefully it's something that motivates him because this is a crossroads and you know this is why having some guys behind him we talked about this briefly on the last pod talking about a Seaver King and some of these guys you know if he doesn't respond well I don't even want to go down that road but if he doesn't you're going to have to have an answer. Coming down the road so it's just the number one word I'd use it's like it's not even I'm not mad I'm not it's just it's disappointing grand it's just really disappointing and you know I'm thankful in a lot of ways that it isn't something where you're talking another scandal with him I'm glad that it's something that is fixable it's not illegal it's things that you can you can deal with internally and I'm thankful that it's at least that but it's disappointing that this is something at this point in the year that you're dealing with because frankly if you wanted to go out and hang out at the casino until 8 a.m. wait until October when you're not playing baseball go do that on your own time. Yeah you're 10 days away from having your nights to do whatever you'd like I wanted to get something out with everybody hearing about this this afternoon just to give you our thoughts we'll get a normal podcast out end of the weekend. But breaking and important to do the emergency pod because he's the face of the franchise in a lot of ways I mean he is the veteran in that lineup he was the all star this year. And James Wood Dylan Cruz moving forward we're going to be responsible for elevating this lineup this team in the years ahead. Thanks for listening to Boston lose baseball we'll be back in just a couple of days.