The Commanders beat the Giants 21-18 in Week 2 of the NFL Season. Bobby & Justin come in with the Post Game Show to break it all down.
00:00 Giants Lose 21-18
08:45 Defensive Disappoints
12:00 Pass Rush Frustrations
25:20 Giants Offense Review
32:20 Daniel Jones Positive Day
36:30 The OL is playing well
44:50 are Daboll and Schoen on the Hot Seat?
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#giants #nygiants
Talkin’ Giants (Giants Podcast)
779 | Commanders 21 Giants 18
The Commanders beat the Giants 21-18 in Week 2 of the NFL Season. Bobby & Justin come in with the Post Game Show to break it all down.
00:00 Giants Lose 21-18 08:45 Defensive Disappoints 12:00 Pass Rush Frustrations 25:20 Giants Offense Review 32:20 Daniel Jones Positive Day 36:30 The OL is playing well 44:50 are Daboll and Schoen on the Hot Seat?
This episode was brought to you by SeatGeek Use code GIANTS10 for 10% off tickets on SeatGeek. https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/GIANTS10 *Up to $25 off
Corona is for the fans who never lose. Be sure to get yours at https://OrderCorona.com
Head to https://www.captainmorgan.com/followthecaptain by September 19th to win a ‘sailgate’ experience like no other! Please drink responsibly.
Clinton Hall NYC - Book your reservations on the Resy app or book your event by reaching out at https://clintonhallny.com/book-your-event/
Head to https://Orgain.com/GIANTS20 and use code GIANTS20 for 20% off your order!
Join our Patreon: https://Patreon.com/TalkinGiants
Tickets to our tailgates: https://shop.jomboymedia.com/products/talkin-giants-l16-tailgate-series-1
Check out our Merch: https://shop.jomboymedia.com/collections/talkin-giants
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#giants #nygiants
- Broadcast on:
- 16 Sep 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
This episode is brought to you by MLB nine innings 24 MLB nine innings is one of the most popular baseball titles on Google Play in the App Store for the past eight years with millions of downloads around the world. You can collect over 2000 player cards from the past and present and they got a new star studded cast of historic players, including Sammy Sosa, Warren Spon, Pudge Rodriguez, Ricky Henderson, and Doc Holiday download and play MLB nine innings 24 today. [Music] Commanders 28 Giants 18 welcome to Talking Giants presented by Sea Key camera host Bobby Skinner here with my co host Justin Pennick. And the Giants fall to 0 and 2 for the 10th time in 12 seasons Justin. This game is frustrating. We talked all off seasons once the schedule was set Justin that for the Giants to have a successful season it was important to start hot right two and 0 one and one it was important for them to not go 0 and two like they had done so many years in a row. Because of this next stretch of games a very tough stretch of games coming up not to say that they couldn't steal one of those two games but if you steal one of those two games now you are still essentially not a playoff contender. This giant season has started off horribly there's coaching decisions that need to be examined the kicker thing we're going to start with defensively is Shane bone a good defensive coordinator. That's going to be question but this is just this is so frustrating that this Giants team lost this game to the Washington commanders a team were a quarterback that wasn't trying to throw the ball down the field at all. A team that has a very bad secondary and Malik neighbors had a great game against and the Giants yet again a row and two. A team man and it stinks that guys that we feel like had good games like Devin Singletary, leak neighbors. They make some costly mistakes and it leads to the Giants losing. There's a lot of things that have led to the Giants losing but I do want to sort of make a reason a lot. They lost is the defense in this game where the kicker thing is going to be the biggest story. I do want to sort off with the kicker thing now because this is you know we joked about it at the beginning of the stream and you know you even see the tweet come up in the middle of the week Bobby we're grim. Bobby where Graham Gano is struggling with another injury. You see it come up and it's like huh well isn't this funny feels like we were in a similar situation last year and this is now multiple games because of special teams roster management or I guess I should say special teams roster and mismanagement that the Giants have lost games Graham Gano and his injuries and even last week with the returner even though that wasn't going to impact the game. Two years in a row where you knew heading into the week that your kicker was hurt. Two years in a row where coaching staff slash front office office decisions choose to not acknowledge the issue. Two years in a row where it costs the Giants football games. I don't get it and Bobby. I think we can like Joe Shane's process and we can like Brian Dable as a coach which I which I still do but when there's dysfunction when it comes to setting up the game day roster and ensuring that everyone is ready to play. This is where it gets tough to defend the process when there is trouble assembling a 53 man roster that oh by the way hasn't even been a 53 man roster the first two weeks to begin the season because they probably want to save cap space because they're struggling for that. They're a rebuilding team that is in the year three of Joe Shane that is still struggling to find cap space that they probably can't even feel the 53 man roster that they can use for a backup kicker or a fucking returner. It's a retired Darren Walker II. I don't get it man. It gets tough to defend process and it gets tough to defend that you know Brian Dale can coach up a good team. When you have two years in a row where special stupid special teams stupid special teams that no one gives two shits about where special teams should have no impact on a game. Two years in a row where this is costing the Giants not just a game it's costing them games games. Even if even if they won this game 40 to 0 this would have been malpractice and and you can even argue that it didn't cost them the game because you can argue that they should have been up 21 to 15 or 16. Okay. You can in the fourth quarter. You can argue that if they had a field goal kicker they kick a field goal to go up 17 15 and then kick a field goal to go up 20 18. But the game's tied at the end of regulation. You're going over time instead of the game losing instead of you losing the game. What do you mean? Because it was 21 18 the final score. Well they kicked a field goal at the end. Yeah. What I'm saying is that argument is that they went for it on a fourth down that they may have not went before on a score to touch on that drive. Right. So again you can argue that it didn't decide the winner loss. But again it should have been if the game ended 40 to 0 like this would have been insane from the New York Giants. You know like this was totally avoidable and this happened before. So you haven't like this happened last year in the Jets game where Graham Gunna was injured. You know it comes out the morning of the game that he's dealing with an injury and they lost the game because of it. Right. That one they clearly lost the game of this one. Like Dan Duggan tweeted out during warmups. Right. And Graham Gunna got to the injury report on Saturday. But they have a backup kicker on the practice squad in Jude McAtamney. Dan Duggan tweeted. Again it's happened to the past. And here's the other thing. They had the roster spot. Right. Like we talked about last week. How a move that wouldn't be talked about a lot but is a really bad thing is not having a backup partner. Yeah two rosters for Gunnar Olaszewski right Gunnar Olaszewski was hurt. Got hurt re injured in you know pregame. They don't have a punt returner and if it was a close game it would have cost them. Right. Because they're you know they could have cost them because Darius Layton was not ready to return a punt. This week they had 52 guys on the roster. They activate they elevated tie summers and to moan Fox from the practice squad for special teams. Tie summers. This was the second time that he was elevated. He's a part of the of this plan. Like he's he's when he runs out of elevations after next week he's probably going to get added to the 53 men roster. So they could have added tie summers to the 53 men roster and use a practice squad elevation on on the backup kicker and been you know out of this problem. So it's just not like it's unserious type of screw up. Right. It is not this. Oh how could like you know like David was asked like if you knew that that would happen would you have had a backup plan. He's like yeah well if in you but every other position on the team does have a backup plan. Yeah what was his reasoning but the line that he was using or we just we just didn't think that Graham Gona was going to. Yeah they thought Graham Gona was good but guess what in pregame warmups he wasn't good. Right. He was he went in early and Jamie Gillian had the practice kicking. I don't I don't get it. And the football grump grump said it perfectly. He tweeted out it's completely unacceptable. The New York Giants continue to not have a game day a game ready roster two weeks in a row. Okay again like you can during the stretch of losing where there will be defenses of Joe Shane defenses of Brian Dable or calls for them to be fired. What's really difficult to comprehend is that these guys for two years in a row have had trouble putting together rosters on game days. Now it's mind blowing. We've seen bad football Bobby. We've been covering the Giants for a couple years now. This is one of the first times that I've seen a coaching staff in a front office have this amount of trouble putting together a game ready roster. It's crazy. Yeah brutal. So a huge group. Now the real issue the Giants losses game was defensively. Yeah. Justin Monty talked us about something before we talk about that. Yeah for sure. Captain Morgan they're bringing you every single episode of talking Giants this year. They're along for the ride and oh boy it could be bumpy on that ship. Captain Morgan needs the official spice from sponsor of the NFL. You want to know what ride isn't going to be bumpy. If you join the legends when you follow the captain on the 100 season with Giants 100 season. If you join Victor Cruz on September 26 when the Giants take on the Cowboys for an immersive game day experience. The captains Cruz with Cruz get it. Fans 21 are over in the Tri-State area can enter for a chance to attend. And if you're not in the New York area you can be the lucky winner who gets to grab a member of your crew and get flown to New York City to be part of how the captain does game day. Head to followthecaptain.com by September 19 to win a selgate experience like no other. That's followthecaptain.com no purchase necessary. US 21 plus 25 plus for grand prize. And three slash five slash 25 subject to drawing deadlines for specific prizes subject to rules at www.captain Morgan.com/followthecaptain. Sponsor Diego Medicas Incorporated New York New York Captain Morgan original spice from 35% alcohol by volume. Captain Morgan run company. New York New York. Please drink responsibly. Captain's orders you'll be glad you did. Defense. You'll be glad you did. Oh, here's a fun. You want to hear a fact? Fun fact. Giants begin the first team and this is per Jeff Cruz CBS. Giants begin the first team in NFL history score three plus touchdowns allow no touchdowns on losing regulation. So, I mean, the commander scored on seven of seven drives with the Giants. Yeah. You know, like, and, but they held them all the field goals. So it's like, oh, Ben, don't break. Oh, for six and red zone efficiency. And the Giants were three for three and red zone efficiency. Yeah. You know, so that's like the, you know, that's like, oh, that's what that's what Shane Bowen's trying to run as a defense. You can't have that happen versus the commanders. Right. If you were playing the Kansas City Chiefs and you had this, right, you want better than that. But you probably will live with that type of performance from your defense versus the commanders versus a quarterback who's not trying to push the ball down the field at all. It's a glorified high school offense where they're throwing screens on the quarterback and run. Yeah. And just running the ball, like, it was a, to me, as a pathetic performance out of the defense outside of Andrew Phillips. Like, I thought it was a bad defensive game all around, like, majority of the starters in this game. And, like, we talked about it, like, you know, Jayden Daniels threw the ball behind the line of scrimmage 13 times and you can, like, and they had success with it. Right. They had success with it. Continue to, like, play from off coverage and they're just going to take that type of stuff because Jayden Daniels doesn't want to push the ball down the field. When you had successes, when you actually did run some blitzes, right, when you get down at the goal line, you had Jason Pinnock blitzing or Dane Bell and blitzing. That's when you actually had success defensively. They didn't have success anywhere else. You know, they gave ten tackles for loss and they forced zero puns to that. Yeah. And a lot of the plays were, like, Drew Phillips making a play, right? You know, like, Drew Phillips sack was not on a blitz. It was on Jayden Daniels just holding on to the football and him rushing in and giving a play. Like the lack of pass rush from Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence, KVON didn't have a bad game when, you know, you'll go back and watch the film and see it did pretty decent. But, like, you just needed more from your, from your star players, especially Burns, man. Like, these were the seven drives, right? It wasn't even just like they got a big play and that was it. The first drive, 16 plays, 64 yards, 10 plays, 43 yards, 14 plays, 74 yards, 9 for 56, 9 for 59, 9 for 45, and then 8 for 65 when they kick the field will be in. So, like, a drive they cut short early on their own was the shortest driver of the game for them with eight plays. That's crazy. You didn't even sniff a three and out in this game. And on third down, when we needed them to step up, Jayden Daniels, you know, they converted seven to 14, 50%. They were eight for 15 if you include a four down two. Yeah. And, you know, Jayden Daniels, four for seven, 62 yards, two runs, 24 yards. Their hand, their running backs had 63 yards on four rushes on third down. It was just all around, around bad defensively. And if that's happening against the commanders, and you saw what the Vikings did last week, basically scoring at will, then get ready to face good offensive teams, which actually is not the strength of this, you know, this strong part of the schedule. But still, like, if the commanders are doing that, then everyone else is going to do it too. And it's not like, all right, well, Washington had all these third downs, but they were third and four. No, they Washington's offense averaged 8.13 yards to go on third down. And they ended up going eight for 15 on third and four down attempts. That's 53%. It's bad. But this, this should be a defense that is salivating, salivating at the idea of getting a quarterback into third and long. Regardless of their, and credit to Jayden Daniels, he's a tough guy back there, didn't go down, didn't go down easily. But this is a defense that should be salivating, a front four, that should be like, oh my God, I can't wait to get a quarterback into third and long. And they did that constantly, constantly. Third and 10, third, third down and longer to go than 10. They did that all day, man. They did exactly what you're supposed to do. Couldn't get off the field. Couldn't get off the field. Let's talk about the pass rush. Now these aren't 100% accurate numbers, but PFF has, I don't even want the tweet about it, but PFF is like kind of doing live tracking. And then I think it's a glitch game. It's over. It goes away. But Cave on had two quarterback hits and two pressures on a 15% win rate. And the film matches, like that's a solid game for cable. But I think it should be better against the commanders. Brian burns two pressures, a 13% win rate and then decks two pressures, a 3% win rate. You know, when I 1% win rate. 3%. Right now they were doubling decks a lot, but you still expect decks to be greater than that. Here's where I'm the most frustrated with Burns. Right? Like you could see some wins in there for Burns, but when you make the trade for Brian, when you make the trade that the Giants did for Brian Burns. And this is kind of what Brian Burns has been in his career too, right? We broke it down when they did the trade. Like he needs to be better than what he's been. Our Brian Burns reaction. Even though he's like a really good pass rusher, you need to be a guy who changes the game and he hasn't done that in a week one or week two. And the commanders, like he got one-on-ones too. It wasn't doubled every play. There was a huge third down conversions where he was one-on-one and he got beat by a bad tackle that the commanders roll out there. And it's not just Brian Burns hasn't had a good first two games, but when you trade a second round and a fifth round pick, a commit $30 million per year, you essentially created three extra holes on this team to get Brian Burns and you have to get more out of that. You have to get more out of that. And if Dex is getting doubled and triple team, then those guys should not be getting double teamed. Right? And if you need to be creating more one-on-ones, there's just, after watching the first game of the film with this defense, I was like, there's really nothing impressive. There was nothing on this defensive play, this game, defensive gameplay in a week one, watching all 22 film, where I'm like, "Oh, this is actually really good football." Like, there was nothing where I'm like, "He gave us an advantage, Shane Bowen." And this game, again, you go- But he relies on his good players. You're supposed to win up front. This is what this team is supposed to do and they're not doing it. Okay, but you can still look for schematic advantages and there's just not, there's lack of- It's just, they rotate the safeties. But we knew this coming in. Shane Bowen has hand up, said, "We're going to rely on the front four to win, and they're not winning." Yeah, that is the biggest issue with this kind of defense right now. It's not like Wink where it's, you know, we're going to win in spite of kind of individual performance because we're going to throw change-ups and stuff like that. No, that's not what this is. We're going to ask our players to dominate up front and win, and they're not winning. Yeah, even if, even if you're like, "Oh, Brian Burns, you won here and won here." They need to, they, you can't have the reliance on that front four and not come away from a game being like, "I know they did it. I know that they did it." Right? Like, you just can't have that. Dexter Lawrence did it in week one and nobody else did it. You know, I posted all the clips of Cave on struggling. Burns had some nice plays, but not, not consistent enough to, you know, to win this game, you know, to win for this defense. And this defense has just not been able to get off the field. But I mean, forget, forget. All things have been able to march down on them. And the issue, you know, personnel-wise has been that the, like you mentioned, that those guys haven't won. That Brian Burns and Cave on Tableau have not done enough to change games. Like, I don't want to hear about, like, they're not getting consistent pressure won, but they have not done enough to change games. But I mean, forget even going after the quarterback and going after the, you know, the passer here. I mean, 35 attempts, 215 yards and 6.1 yards per carry. And Brian Robinson is getting, you know, he had a gain of like 32 yards and a run of 40 yards, which were two of his longest runs of his entire career. They were the two longest runs of his entire career. So, I mean, the fact that we're allowing that to happen, that's also bad. That's really bad. And that's the thing is, well, Shane Bones has a good run defense. And, you know, I did those all 22 streams in the offseason of Shane Bones defense. And I'm like, man, they got some run defenders up front for Tennessee. They've got some and the Giants just don't have that, right? They have Dexter Lawrence. Notchos a solid run defender. He's not a difference maker. And Cave on and Burns have are not great edge setters in the run game. They're really not. And like you said, teams have been able to run like Aaron Jones ran the ball on them. Like, this is going to be another bottom five rushing team, probably, for this team. If it continues like this, you're going to have another bottom five rushing defense for the, you know, for the third straight year. And it's like, okay, so what does what like when you come away from week two, leaving week two, and when you take Dexter Lawrence off the field, it's just easy runs for them. Oh, yeah. I forgot that. What does this, what does this defensive scheme do? I don't know unless you just say Ben don't break, but you can't you can't bend don't break like that. You can't you can't allow them to get, you know, second scoring drive. You know, and also the commanders did did a ton of a ton of favors. How many times did the commanders get to a first and goal situation, second and goal situation? And then we have a full start. They have a penalty. They shoot themselves in the foot. And then it's like, Oh, giant, you know, then I finally took a sigh of relief being like, all right. This is when the drive is going to is going to stall because that's what happens on a driver. You run a lot of plays. Somebody's going to eventually make a mistake and that's what happened. So they shot themselves in the foot. It's not even like, I wouldn't even say the giant's like clamped up. A lot of times they wash and shot themselves in the foot. Yeah, so that's it's really worrisome for what this defense is going to look like because we know the secondary is rough. But if the if the pass rush isn't getting home, I mean, you're going to have what happens. There's no identity in this defense of the pass. They're going to go seven for seven on scoring drives. The Vikings score three touchdowns on their first five drives last week. And that that's against Sam Donald and Jen Daniels, right? And I, I know Jayden Daniels can run the ball really well. I don't come away from this game and press with like, like he didn't want to throw the ball down the field. He did not want to throw the ball down the field. He had 13 throws behind the line of scrimmage. Obviously that's on Cliff Kingsbury too. But there was really no attempt to do it. And they just got beat consistently and again, like a lot. Now, I actually don't blame Shane Bowen for this. I blame the personnel because they had, you know, Isaiah Simmons out there as a spy and stuff. You can't let him turn a fourth and third or a third and 13 into a scramble for a first down. Like you can't have those types of plays and they and they allow them to. But I mean, I come away from this game being like we said in the preview pod like specifically for Brian Burns. Anything short of dominance was a disappointment and I come away disappointed with Brian Burns two weeks in a row. Yeah, you know, you did mention cave on Tibido had a had a decent game and. You know, dog analytics tweeted this out from next Jan that cave cave on Tibido improved his get off time. Time to cross the line of scrimmage this season compared to his first two years where it's down to 0.75 seconds. 0.75 seconds would have ranked top 10 in the NFL last year. So that's two weeks. And in 2023 and 2022, it's been 0.85 and 0.83. He also generated a quarter to the next gen five pressures on 29 pass rush snaps. That's a 17.2% pressure rate that would have been the fourth highest pressure rate in a game of his career. That's according to next gen, which does stuff differently from PFF. So I mean, cave on, cave on had a good game, but again, just still disappointed for you. You're mainly disappointed with with Brian Burns and everybody. So yeah, and I come away disappointed with Shane Bowen, where like what, what defensively are you doing to give us an advantage? I don't care if that's the identity is like there needs to be something down on the back end. There needs to be different more disruptive looks and different like, you must be, you got to be throwing some real deal disguises, not just some rotating the safety and to cover three. There was even wasn't there even a play today where they're blitzing. No, I think that was Dean Belton's fault where they're bracketing down low when they, they ran a blitz, like a six man blitz and they didn't play man coverage on the back end. Oh, yeah, that was the, that was the Jaden Daniels, like rolled to the right and threw the ball to Zach Kurtz on the third down. Yeah. Where they, they blitz, they send six and they're running just like kind of four guys back at the line of scrimmage. Yeah, you mentioned that like Dean Belton probably was in the wrong spot, but still. Yeah, it's just, it's frustrating defense. And now the one guy who's not frustrating on defense is Drew Phillips. Oh, very wrong on Drew Phillips. Zach two tackles for a loss and his defensive holding was eight. It was bogus. It was, I mean, Zach Rich just ran through him. That would have been a four down, right? Yeah, right. And that's where it's like that could make the difference of the game. Now he, you know, he was, he gave up three catches, Justin. You know how many yards he gave up? Seven. Four. Nice. You even, you even got the, you know, how many other tackles for losses he on pace for? He is on pace for, let me do the math real quick. You tweeted it out. That was in the beginning of the game. He is now on pace for 25 and a half tackles for loss, which I do believe would probably end up leading the NFL. It's pretty good. And he's on pace for eight and a half sacks, which is also pretty good. Pretty good. I was wrong. Hand up. Yeah. Hey, I still want to see some teams that like throw the ball down the field, you know? And he played, he played well in week one, but he only played a handful of staff. Listen, he's tackled well, which that was like the main concern that I had about Drew Phillips. You know, coming up at stop of the run, I think you're seeing the importance of a nickel corner when, you know, when you see the physicality, right? Like that was, you know, he was like, the scouting report was like this, but that, right? It was like the, the very physical, but struggles to tackle. Well, he's been tackling really well and that maybe that helps. He's not open field outside corner, you know, one on one with guys, but he, you know, forced the fumble in week one, like this is, we've been talking about this for a long time. Like how important run defenses for nickel corners in today's NFL man, and he freaking brought it. That gets a huge part of run defense. Now the fact that the Giants gave up over 200 rushing yards, doesn't make you feel great about it, but that's not on Andrew Phillips. That's on, you know, the guys up front, the linebackers, you know, care case, you know, miss a tackle in this game. So Drew Phillips is the one thing you can be excited about for on this defense. Any other defensive notes before we switch the offense, no, we could talk, oh, we got to talk about, um, my favorite defender and that's Corona, extra, y'all know, you know what I always try to be a fan that never loses hard to be as a New York Giants fan. Here's what I mean. The Giants don't win every single week or any week, but even when they lose, I'm still loving the game. I've still got passion. I'm still loving football. You guys can tell that because whether it's a big deep ball or some third and short conversions or just a great tailgate on the parking lot, there's always something that you're for and the best beer to pair with awesome moments, Corona, which is truly my favorite beer. My fridge is stacked with them at home. I have them with a nice steak, uh, you know, at night and the best, uh, Corona is all about finding the maximum amount of joy with every moment of the game, win or lose at home or on the road. It's a perfect beer to go along with watching football and all the moments that come with it. Here's to everyone who loves the game beyond the scoreboard. Corona for the fan who never loses, get your, uh, get yours at order corona.com for 21 plus relax responsibly. Corona, extra beer import imported by crown import, Chicago, Illinois, you'll be glad you did. Never lost. Uh, the other guy was a little disappointed, even though his box score stats are really nice is because, you know, Jason Pinnell got two sacks. He had a tackle for loss as well. Each, there was two plays, but he, you know, he had the defensive holding on the first drive of the game, which would have been, uh, ended up in a field goal and they stayed on the field because of that defensive holding. And then the first time Jaden Daniels actually like really threw the ball down the field, I was ugly, ugly pass on third down and he's there to make a play and Zach Earth's just grown man's the ball away from him. Oh, yeah. It could have maybe been a pick like that could, you know, those are, those are, those are two plays that the Giants win the game. If Pinock doesn't have a holding call on that. Um, and if he comes up with that turnover and Zechar, it's because again, like one or two plays does change this game because the commander's literally scored on every single drive. Um, so that's it offensively and even defensively to a request for the film review and then even a, a request, maybe for the mailback pot is what's happening. I mean, there's, there's clearly a reason where, and it can't just be lack of interior defensive lineman depth outside of decks. Like, I, I want to know what these linebackers are doing. Mike and McFadden and, and Bobby O'Carriquet, you know, we're allowing six yards per carry here. Um, Bobby O'Carriquet can't be perfect if that's, if that's happening. So yeah, we'll, and we will get into all that mail. We got to talk about the offense. That'll be something, you know, that's a great, uh, question for the mailback pod this week. Where do you want to start for? Cause this was a, this was a solid offensive game for the Giants, right? Like they had seven, they only got seven drives. That's the down part of the sheet defense being on the field, but they scored touchdowns on three of them. They punt to twice and then they had a turnover on downs on the Malik neighbors drop and then the fumble by Devin Singletary, which is frustrating that like the two guys who got yard for them on offense had bad plays that will, will be remembered and change the outcome, right? Like we say for, you know, the Giants defense, if they make this player, this player, the game's over, you know, games over the commander's defense was able to make those plays, I guess the Malik neighbors drop isn't making a play, but the, the, you know, pa, uh, Jeremy Chin popping the ball from Devin Singletary. We could do about DJ, but I mean, this was Malik neighbors as a star. It's so easy to see. You know, he had 127 yards on 10 catches. Uh, I think that might be the Giants best receiving game since Darius Layton and 2020 against the Cowboys when he had 129 yards. And it was a truly Malik neighbors or bust type of game. You know, he had 127 of Daniel Jones, 178 yards, that's 71%. He had 18 targets of DJs, 28 attempts, that's 64%, which by the way is the third highest target share since 2000, according to Doug analytics. He had 85 yards of yak, which is 67% of his yards came from yak. And you see it, right? You know, that two minute, uh, that two minute, uh, drill drive at the end of the half where they were, they score seven and when, when's the last time the Giants have gotten the ball in a two minute situation also they started with fucking running the ball. But when's the last time Giants got the ball in a two minute situation where it's like, they just march up and down the field. They take what the defense gives you. Malik neighbors creates with the yards after the catch. And there's an opportunity for two for one or boom, they put, you know, I think they put at least six points on the board. They put a touchdown on the board and then you get the ball back to start the second half and you're feeling great. Yeah. But like, like an unsigulatory phone, you know, they, it was a 69 yard. You're driving in that, uh, that game. You have my neighbors for 13 yards, um, Malik neighbors for 21 yards, um, and then Malik neighbors for a touchdown, which I'm glad you got that touchdown, uh, out of the way. But the two, you know, two plays, right? We're yak plays, right? Where they throw a six yard hitch band playing your foot in the ground, get a feel and had that again. Um, you know, was targeted on third down, had that fourth down conversion, uh, towards the end of the game, even though he had the fourth down drop where like the giants have not had anybody since Odell where it's fourth down and three and you throw a four yard hitch. Like that's malpractice. If that's anybody, but Malik neighbors on this roster, um, so it's so easy to see. He's a star. It is frustrating that he did contribute to losing though too, even though he's the reason the giants offense was in this game, like the, you have, if he catches that pass on fourth down, I think the game's over. They would have to score, they would have to score because I don't know if they would kick the field goal, but I think they were going to score that drive. They were running the ball. Well, well, they at least get in the overtime. And here's another part of this. And we got frustrated in the moment because we are streaming. That drive did end in a fourth and four on that drop, right? So would a five yards been a big deal there? I think so. Well, after, uh, the play before Malik neighbors doesn't get lined up like I don't know what happened. You have a positive play and then what the giants just aren't good enough where you have, if you have a positive play on offense like that, great. And the Malik neighbors has the negative play where it's the illegal formation. He's not set and then it brings you back five yards and it's first and 15. It's like, come on, man. Yeah. Yeah. So he doesn't get set and you have the first and 15. Now, again, it's, I'm not going to lose my mind. Like I'm not going to, I am not leaving this game. Well, it's a little things. It's a little things that when you, when you're this, when you're not a good football team, it's the little things that wind up in losses. Sure. I agree a hundred percent and he deserves blame for those, but I also am not going to leave this game. Oh, I'm not mad at Malik neighbors because he's the reason they were in this game. I mean, that right before that formation, illegal shift penalty was a third and nine that Malik neighbors compared it for 25 years. Not mad at Malik neighbors would have been great if we can kick an extra point, would have been great if the defense could force a punt. Yeah. So like, I mean, it's Malik neighbors is a star, right? He has, you know, 190 yards through two games. Let's do, you know, let's do the on pace game for, for that. That, that'd be pretty good. I actually did do that. He's on pace for over 1600 yards. What's going to happen? Oh, yeah. Um, for a walt, uh, our friend, walt, wg, wbg, 84, uh, Malik neighbors is 21 years old, 49 days. He's the youngest player in NFL history, 10 plus perception, 100 plus receiving yards and one touchdown in a game and something that I love to, um, eight yards after the catch per reception. Obviously, we know that the average depth of target was low, but it was plus one and a half yards after the catch over expectation. And Bobby, something that, you know, I've talked about for years and we, we, we've maybe mentioned time and time again is that, you know, watch, you watch, you turn on a nationally televised game where usually the offenses are good and fun and there's just plays where offense is easy. It's like, you know, quarterbacks can just drop back and it's like, all right, that's a, here's a six, seven yard gain on first down and I finally felt like watching Malik neighbors, like, all right, well, the whole phrase of take what the defense gives you, right? If Washington's going to be playing and cushion, if they're going to give you cushion at the line, run that little hitch and then, and then watch what Malik neighbors does with the ball in his hands where it's an easy, it's a pitching catch for Daniel Jones, where something that could result in two, three yards for other receivers that don't have good stop and go and don't have the acceleration, don't have the yak. Malik neighbors has that yak. The pitching catch is going to be easy and it turns, well, again, what could be a two to three yard gain into a eight nine yard gain or even a 10 yard gain. And then one of the reasons we haven't, we haven't even spoken about Daniel Jones yet. Just crazy. But one, one of the reasons why Daniel Jones has averaged up my record for not matching Daniel Jones on a recap pod, especially in a week where we thought he could be bench and this could be his final game. One of the reasons why Daniel Jones's average depth of target was 10.3, which the, which is in the 81st percentile in the NFL is because you had those long hitch routes as well. Where it's, it's easy, man. It's easy. When the Giants were less than the NFL, less, you're in tendon and plays of 10 to 19 yards. You're playing, you're playing Malik neighbors off. You're giving them cushion. You're giving cushion. A dairy is slightly and these guys can just boop like a turn on like on a dime quick turn on the sideline and it's an easy pitching catch for 12, 13 yards on first down. That's what Malik neighbors is going to bring to this offense. Just easy, quick answers, whether it's short, intermediate or deep and we haven't even seen the deep stuff yet. Yeah. We have seen some deep stuff, but we've seen deep, we've seen big explosive plays, which is nice. Yeah. We haven't seen the cover on the deep stuff. Right. So let, let's talk about Daniel Jones in this and here's a part that pisses me off. We talk about Malik neighbors having a great game. The offensive line had a great game and we're sitting here talking about fucking 0 and 2. Like that sucks, but this is the best the offensive lines looked in the decade. So plus let's, let's talk about Daniel Jones because last week was bad. Last week was really, really bad and there were worries like, is he broken coming off of the torn ACL? Are they going to have to go to drew lock who inspires no confidence in us who's been, you know, has been worse than Daniel Jones in his career, obviously. So it's a positive in the sight of like, all right, maybe Daniel Jones isn't broken to where he should be bench for drew lock. That's a positive. I don't come away from this. No one should come away from this game as a victory lap for Daniel Jones. It's a bad commander's defense and he wasn't perfect. I'm not expecting perfection, but what we did see, which is, you know, when we talked on the preview pod and you're like, do you expect DJ to do it? I was like, I expect him to be able to hit Malik neighbors versus man coverage. And that's what Daniel Jones was able to do. Like, so he had a solid NFL game, you know, 16 to 28, 170 yards, two touchdowns, zero interceptions. That's a solid NFL game. Now where I still am worried is the accuracy on the deep throws. He was zero for four on deep passes. Something that showed up in camp, that's something that showed up in pre-season. That's something that showed up in the regular season now post that processing. There was Malik neighbors on a drag that he should have hit and said, he was like, that was like the players that play is called shallow cross one day runs a sit. You are hoping that they go and cover the sit and throw it to there. Not there. He missed one day on the second drive of the game on a third down that would have been a first down conversion. So again, not perfect, but what we did see is like, okay, we don't need to have the conversation about going to Drew Lock, at least for another, not yet, at least for another week, hopefully. Yeah, but the reality of the situation is still this, this commander secondary, I don't care what you commit. This commander secondary is bad. Yes. And even though Daniel Jones is he paid per play, I believe was in the 75th percentile. I don't care. This is a game where I am looking at Daniel Jones still threw for only 170 yards. And he went 16 for 28, like that's, you got to hit, you got to hit your deep passes when you take them. Yeah. And yeah, this was a bad second, but you look at what they put on the menu and DJ did the job outside the deep passes, like, and, but you can't, you can't have outside the deep passes when you're Daniel Jones. So yeah, you want to know why we've went almost 35 minutes without talking about Daniel Jones is because that's the game that I think he had. I don't, I don't think this is a game to write home about if you're Daniel Jones defender to be like, see, see, he's not the pro at least that's, at least that's my opinion. And he gets, and he gets to keep his job for another week. That's, that's the game that I think Daniel Jones, which I was, I was hoping for, I was not hoping to go to, I was dreading, like, I was dreading having the take of like the Giants to go to true law. I thought that now, granted, it is a Daniel Jones W because I thought we were going to be in that spot. I'm, I am very happy that we're not in that spot. I think it's inevitable though, as somebody who wants to get through this season, I am happy that we are not after week two saying that I'm very, I think it is, I think it is inevitable. We'll see. But the fact that we're not throwing for over 200 yards against this commander's defense is bad. Yeah. I mean, you miss Malik neighbors on a, on a few deep passes to, you know, miss Malik neighbors on that. Like Malik neighbors could have more production, which is crazy to think about. Like you did all this without having a deep catch. The offensive line is where you do get happy. Not the Browns are going to be a different story next week. So if the Browns defense gets home, I'm not, I'm not crying. I'm not, you know, saying, oh, we were duped because the Browns defense is nuts. One sack for three yards wasn't credited to the offensive line. Like they ran the ball really well, you know, six, six yards per carry. And again, this is, these aren't the official statistics, but Andrew Thomas pitched a shut out again. John Ronan gave up one pressure. Jermaine Elmanor gave it one quarterback hit and then JMS and Greg Van Rotten gave up two pressures. Van Rotten being the worst offensive lineman on this, on this team and doing what he's doing is a huge, great development. JMS looks like, I was worried that like JMS had a solid week, one versus the Vikings. You're playing a commander's defense in front that's different. And him not being there was a solid game for JMS. We didn't say Duran Payne, Jonathan Allen or Johnny Newton's name once. Not one time. We didn't say any other names once. And you look at like they're successful plays. There's just protection, man. Like there is just flat flat out time to throw the damn ball, you know, time to throw the ball down the field four times 20 plus yards. There was, you know, running the ball really well, like this offensive line is performing really, really well, right? Like even last week when you're like, Oh, the run blocking wasn't great. And I know we can't, we don't, you don't want to judge solely off of the Janice Pass offensive lines. Like, okay. Yeah, it wasn't great. It surely wasn't great. But last year, that offensive line didn't allow sick when Barclay to average four yards per carry, right, didn't allow, like there was not disaster plays from that offensive line last week in the run game. And then this week they were just flat out good, right? You know, Devin Singletary having over 90 yards and would have had more if he doesn't fumble the ball, right? Yeah, they were kicking ass that drive. What was, what was such a shame that drive man, and I'm going to talk about something right after I mentioned this is we got to fit four ads in this episode. Hello. They run for 11 yards and then they had the DJ sack and then run for 15 yards. Yeah. That play coming out of the half where it's like, all right, end of the first half score six. Get the ball back. We're up three. And I talked door in halftime. I'm like, all right. This, this drives big man. This drive is so important because member 2022, Bobby, where that tie, the Giants had a seven point lead throughout like the entire second half. And they allowed the commanders to stay in the game, stay in the game, stay in the game. They didn't make it a 10 point lead. They didn't make it a 14 point lead. They kept that at seven, seven, seven and then boom. You know, they finally, you know, allowed every, you know, when the levy breaks says let's up and says, you know, so that's why that, that drive to start the second half was so important because if you put seven points on the board, you have a 10 point lead. That's a two score lead or you have an 11 point lead. It's a three. It's a two score lead. And that's huge. It changes. It changes the dynamic of the game. So it's two plays in that second half. It takes them two plays to cross the 50 yard line. I'm like, Oh, hell yeah, we're cooking. And then they, and then Daniel Jones takes the three yard sack on for on firsthand. It's like, Oh, shit. All right. Well, how are you? How are you going to? How are you going to reset? How are you going to avoid third and long? They avoid on that on that fucking play on that play second, they were at the Washington is 35. Second and 13, you, you not only avoid third and you get a first down on a running play on a second and long and I'm like, Oh my God, this is great. We're avoiding third down first, second and first, second, I need to fumble the ball and shit. This episode is brought to you by Clinton Hall. What a transition. This episode of talk of giants is brought to you by Clinton Hall. You're home to watch all things NFL. That's one of the more abrupt transitions we've ever had. Why don't you talk to us about something? Clinton Hall has several locations across NYC, 36 street, 51st street, 51st street, FIDI and the Bronx near Fordham. 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The first week, the first two weeks of the season and we're owing to against the weakest teams on the schedule. It's a shame that every single year Vikings aren't the weakest team on the schedule, but the commanders are. We've been begging for good offensive line play, you know, we've had Andrew Thomas and he's been a bright spot and, you know, at times he's helped keep the unit afloat. But it's a shame that now we're looking at this offensive line and like, yeah, they're kind of, they're kind of kicking a little bit of ass and it's all for what to be owned to. It's a shame. Yeah. It's a shame. It's a shame. We have the freaking cover. It's a, it is on the Giants offensive line being good is an, is now an underrated talking point of the 2023 season. Let's look at what the 2024 says. The offensive line allowed for 129 rushing yards, six yards per carry and they accounted for one quarterback hit and five pressures. That's a dream. Right. And I was a little worried. Not about the tackles. I'm not worried about the Thomas and Jermaine. But I was a little worried about like a Vikings interior rush is just not good at all. And you know, Greg Van Rotten was the worst last week. Runyon wasn't perfect that it would kind of come collapsing down a little bit. You know, remember Rob sale talking points after the Saints game, you know, in 2021 that the interior would struggle on, but they did better against a better interior rush. Right. Like they did better versus a better interior rush. Um, and again, like even there, there's been, there were some losses, right? Like you give up a quarterback hit and five pressures, there's going to be some losses in there. The losses are not disaster losses either. Right. And that's the difference between having a guy like a veteran Van Rotten as you're out there and Marco Winsky last year, what he was doing, where it's like these are these are disaster losses. They're picking stuff up. They're working well in the run game. The offensive line looks flat out good. You know why I think a big part of it is why because cheat days in size, what the Giants offensive line put in their body matters to them. Oh, and they want to fuel it with the best stuff out there. Our next sponsor or gain makes it so easy to do just that. I really like, um, or gain, they sent me some, uh, these, these 30 gram protein shakes. Oh, they're in my fridge right now. Yeah. So there, you know, there's some other things in my fridge I mentioned there in my fridge. I, I popped one open to get my day going. Or gain is, is really, really nice helps keep down that hunger and it tastes good too. Like it just tastes like chocolate milk, um, organ is the leader in real protein powered nutrition that understands that being, uh, good for you, doesn't have to taste bad. Wow. I even talked about that before I said that they sent us their brand new 30 gram, uh, complete protein shake and it is awesome. 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Hey, uh, here's a dude, I don't know if you've talked about this, but a research Rick tweeted this out a couple of minutes ago, Washington on third down, how many, how many yards per carry did they average on rushing attempts 15? I already did this for no, no 16 that was it 15 or six, six rushes, 86 yards, 14.3. That's on third down. That's that's what research Rick has. Do you dare on third down on third down that he include fourth down. I don't think he did. He and click is on running back hand off said four runs for 63 yards. We bring the boom. Um, I recently got into the Costco gas or Costco guys, uh, um, I've enjoyed them. Where do you think they've brought some sanity to my life? The conversation on Jane and Dave will go, um, do you think they're in jeopardy? They need to win football games, Bobby. I mean, I, we, we do this every year and we do the song and dance every, well, not every year. No, we didn't do it the last year's. We kind of did it last year. Um, no, we really did it. We knew it was not going to happen last year. That's because they won games. Uh, if they, if they win football games and if they find a way to win, then their jobs will be safe and if they don't win football games, then they will lose their jobs. I just here's where I'm not worried because if they deserve to lose their jobs, they lose their jobs and we start over again, unfortunately, um, and I don't even, I don't even know where I am and what I want right now. There. And again, I want to save some of that. Like we have a long season. I do want to save some of that conversation. I don't think you need to have an opinion on that right now. But here is my worry is we've talked about it all all season. Brian Daybell has done a better job than Joe Shane. Joe Shane has not brought in good players to the draft or not enough, right? They don't have their answer at quarterback. Brian Daybell has done better. He pulled out six wins with that roster last year. It's was coach of the year before Brian Daybell, I think did do a good job the first two years. Um, we also know Brian Daybell, he's not someone who handles the media great. Um, a little bit of a hothead, you know, had basically ran out his defensive coordinator. Um, it's keeping Kafka on for, you know, basically PR reasons that he will in a sense crumble under these losses and pressure. So I, I, I'm, I, I hate that we're doing this after three years, but it is, it is where they're at, Justin. But we'll, we'll do a line report, film review, mail bag, clean it all up, see what, see what changes and our thoughts come from Wednesday, but O and two feels really fucking familiar for talking giants. There's only been one year where we haven't done it and I maybe I'm overacting, but I, I feel worse about this O and two, then I have other ones, you know, 2019, they moved to Daniel Jones 2020 and it feel good. That didn't feel good, but it is what it is 2021. You had that offensive performance by Daniel Jones. They missed the field goal. They need to find their quarter. They, they, you know, they don't, you know, the, the commanders make the field goal. They need, they need to, I mean, at the end of the day, this is kind of, it's kind of what the NFL is about. It's about, you know, it's, it's a team sport, but also at the same time, if you get a, if you get a good quarterback with the, with a good brain on offense, it could, it could change everything. So that if that's what Brian Dable needs, if that's what the next person needs, I don't know. I'm rooting for Brian Dable and Joshi, because I don't want to do this again, but the more decisions that they make like with the stupid kicker thing, the more just like, Hey, say, say what you could kill Joshi and all you want about the Daniel Jones contract. The Daniel Jones contract is not as bad as the Brian Burns contract, because especially when you include what I disagree with that. You disagree with that paying an edge rusher over $30 million a year. If he's not going to be an impact player plus a plus trading away, a high, a high leverage second round pick. Well, Brian Burns is a good player and not for the Giants right now. Okay. But he will make good place for the Giants as his career goes along. We'll see. Um, like I, I understand what you're saying where I am, like we had hesitation about the Brian Burns trick because he hasn't been an elite pass rusher. He's been a good pass rusher. I mean, they set up the Daniel Jones contract to get out of it in two years. So you drop after, you, you lose McKinney and he gave up a second round on the fifth round picks because that's, that's the thing with Burns. That's the thing that's the thing with Burns is because you, you not only, I mean, people said this about DJ, you didn't bring back McKinney. You didn't go out and sign like a Christian, but you could have kept McKinney. If DJ's con, you could have done both of them, DJ's contracts, not on the books. So I, I, I, I, so I disagree with that. But I understand where you're coming from, where if Brian Burns is like this, if it's, it's, it's, that was straight up a Joe Shane move, like that, you know, the after 2022, the year that Jones had kind of put, kind of put Shane in a corner where it's like, we, we got to give Jones this contract, but nobody, nobody begged to Joe Shane to go out there and trade for Brian Burns. Nobody begged them to do that. If anything, it was, it was away from the Giants timeline of things. It's like, no, don't do that. We're not there yet. Right. So I understand where you're coming from, but I, I do disagree with that. But hey, we'll be, we'll clean it up. We appreciate you guys. Sorry that you guys have to stick around for an O and two football team. I really do hate it for all of us, Jones fans, but we'll see you in the next episode. Until then, let's go big blue. 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