New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard emerges from the Giants' locker room at MetLife Stadium to give you the postgame breakdown of a Thursday Night Football NFC East Giants loss to the Dallas Cowboys @Bleav. Pat answers all fan questions and comments to provide a full picture of the team's roster and outlook heading into the Giants' Week 5 road trip to Seattle to face the Seahawks. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 is an all-natural, specialty coffee with no sugar that is convenient for the on-the-go coffee drinker. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get a special buy one, get one free deal.
Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard
Immediate reaction to Giants' Thursday night prime time loss to Dallas Cowboys
New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard emerges from the Giants' locker room at MetLife Stadium to give you the postgame breakdown of a Thursday Night Football NFC East Giants loss to the Dallas Cowboys @Bleav. Pat answers all fan questions and comments to provide a full picture of the team's roster and outlook heading into the Giants' Week 5 road trip to Seattle to face the Seahawks.
- Broadcast on:
- 27 Sep 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
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Frustrating loss if you're a Giants fan, if you're a Giants player, Giants coach, because this is better than what we've seen in recent years. This was a closer game than what the Giants have put forth in these division rivalries. But, same old story of a defeat. Oh, and five now under Brian Dable and Joe Shane against the Dallas Cowboys. Giants have now lost seven straight as a franchise to Dallas, and 14 of the last 15. The Giants, of course, get five field goals, but do not put the ball in the end zone. And I went around and taught to a lot of the Giants, leaders and players, and asked them how they feel about going toe-to-toe with Dallas, even though they didn't get the result. And I got the same answer really across the board, which was Chris Manhart, the tight end who had that great fumble recovery of the opening kickoff of the second half by Tyrone Tracy. Chris Manhart said there are no moral victories. We have to find a way to win. We're sitting at one and three right now, and that's where it is. Daniel Jones said we do not feel good about losing. We're frustrated. We're not discouraged because we know what we can be. But it does not feel good to lose, and no, we don't feel good about this. Dexter Lawrence said I'm not into petty wins. I'm not going to talk about petty wins or feel like I got a victory out of this at all. Our job is to score and stop them and win the game, and they won. The scoreboard reflects, they won. So, you know, frankly, that's what I like hearing from the Giants because, you know, there are no moral victories in pro sports, and it's not good enough because, yes, encouraging that the Giants were able to hold the ball for a long amounts of time in this game, extended drive at the end of the first half there, and a remarkable thing that they were able to control possession at times, considering they could not run the ball. The Giants had 24 rushes for 26 yards in this game against the Dallas Cowboys defense that was allowing 185.7 yards rushing per game, which is worst in the NFL. So, the Giants were not able to get it going on the ground. Now, they still move the ball, right? Daniel Jones was still efficient as a passer on the day. Daniel finishes, let's say 29 to 40 for 281. No touchdowns, however, and the interception at the end on the deep shot to jail and high on that desperate throw. The lead headline in addition to the loss has to be Malik neighbors' injury, the concussion. Neighbors was in the locker room after the game. He was not allowed to talk to the media when players are in the concussion protocol. They are not allowed to talk to the media. And that said, neighbors came back out to his locker near the end of the open locker room period. And Brian Burns yelled across the locker room, "Hey, Luke, you good? You straight?" And it was almost as if Burns was expecting neighbors to say, "Oh, yeah, I'm good." And it would be like a good silver lining moment. And neighbors said, "Nah." And he kind of shook his head. He gave him a little smirk, kind of like, "Hey, what do you really ask?" And obviously I got banged up. But Burns and the Giants, they were accountable. They have been, he's been an accountable leader on the defensive side of the ball after these games. But that was a concerning moment there, obviously. It didn't tell us anything we didn't already know. But neighbors banging his face into the ground there on that fourth down in completion. And then you wonder, is it his neck as well? We hope he's okay. Didn't look good there. He smashed his face and his head pretty hard on the ground. The Giants do have a longer week than usual to get ready for their next game in Seattle on the road next week, given this Thursday night game. And now they have this weekend plus a full week next week before the road trip. But obviously concerned because neighbors is such a huge part of this offense and team. 12 catches on 15 targets for 115 yards to lead the team. Wandao Robinson, though, also 11 catches on 14 targets for 71 yards. Wandao has definitely had his most encouraging last two games as a giant these last two weeks. So I like seeing that. We'll get right to your questions. I see the super chats rolling in, the talking ball, post game live community is up and rolling. So I'm going to tell you real quick. We have my bookie sponsoring the channel and the podcast and talking ball with Pat Leonard post game live. My bookie promo code is Pat's picks. You click on the link in any of my social media bios. You go and you make it deposit. And at the cashier, you enter the promo code Pat's picks and you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip tonight. I gave out some props on Rico dowdle. I believe both of my props on Rico dowdle hit. That was the over carries and over rushing yards for Rico dowdle. Pretty sure they both hit. He also scored a touchdown, a receiving touchdown on a screen pass. So if you stick with me, we're rolling here on my bookie and on talking ball live with Pat Leonard, make football season a winning season with my bookie. If you're already a member, sign up for their loyalty rewards program at my bookie plus. You can progress through tears and unlock exclusive giveaways, get cash back in your account. Also sponsored here by the state 98 coffee and all natural specialty coffee with no sugar convenient for on the go coffee drinkers. Takes 10 seconds to make a delicious iced coffee with a state 98. Only a minute more to make a hot coffee or latte. I know Gabe giants chronicles saying that he liked the taste as a nice coffee. 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Go to boom chaga.com today to place your first order. And if you use the discount code talking ball 25 or access it through the QR code on your screen here, you will get 25% off your first subscribe and save order. Right now, that means a month's supply costs you only $30. Start feeling the difference today at boom chaga.com. All right, D kit sets an example here with a super chat. If you want your comment or question answered first or to rise to the top of the queue, you purchase a super chat or a super sticker and it will rise to the top of the thread. So starting with D kit, he checks in with the $10 super chat and he says, who cares, Pat? We lost because we are a loser French franchise with a loser mentality. We don't make winning plays. We don't coach to win. We don't impose our will. We don't know how to win. I'm fed up. It is frustrating because while the game plan kept this game close, obviously, you know, Deontay Banks gets toasted for the CD lamb touchdown. The Giants give up touchdown on the Rico Daddle screen pass Dak Prescott, of course, started, I believe, nine of his first 10 for 82 yards and that that'll touch down. And it always feels like there's something a little bit off, right? Like if Daniel Jones makes a good throw, you have a Wondale Robinson drop. If you have Dari asleep and open down the right sideline, Daniel Jones's throw is short. They did move the ball. You know, Jones was efficient. Neighbors is tough to handle. Devin Singletary had a nice fourth down conversion. Amir Smith Mar set had a nice punt return. Greg Joseph, five for five on field goals after missing that field goal in Cleveland. So, you know, there was some good things, but it just doesn't all add up. Right? That's the problem is you're always missing that one thing. Like I was talking to Chris Manhertz about what's missing in the running game because even Debo couldn't stand there and talk about any progress or encouraging things without pointing out. Like we really got to figure out this running game and obviously he doesn't have answers for it yet or else he would have figured it out. But Chris Manhertz told me the problem with the run game right now is communication. They should not make it as complicated as they are. They have to be on the same page. And he says we shot ourselves in the foot a lot tonight. He said they left a lot of meat on the bone. So that's Chris Manhertz saying in so many words that when they get lined up, there's always, there's always something that maybe needs to get tweaked or adjusted at the line. Or figured out assignment wise. There's something either breaking down or an assignment missed or maybe one guy not executing his block the way he absolutely has to 100% or maybe it's the running back at times. But something is missing in all of these runs and really that's kind of a microcosm of the team where, you know, some positives, but not enough, right? So to your point, D kit, disappointing. You know, I think the one moment where the crowd seemed to not really love what they saw from day bowl tonight was the, what was it, fourth and three kicking the chip shot, 22 yard field goal in a game, of course, where you need, you're going to need to touch down to win. D kit also says I said to you last week, Pat, there's something wrong with Jones arm strength, becomes very obvious. I don't care what anyone tells me. Listen, I D kit, I don't disagree with you. I think that, I think that. You know, asking Dable asking Daniel tonight about not hitting those deep shots. They really, they weren't defending it. You know, like Daniel Jones said essentially some of those downfield throws I've got to hit him. He said, he was asked about what's going on with them and he said, I don't know just got to hit them. And Dable said the same thing. He said, yeah, we got to hit those. So it's kind of like the implication from them is, yeah, something's missing there, but they won't just come out and say exactly what it is. I will say I said this before, last year, when he came back off the second neck injury in in Vegas, Daniel against the Raiders was throwing the ball differently in that game. And he saw him throwing it differently now necessarily I felt like he corrected it. We saw plenty of good throws and training camp and all of that. But I wonder if that's part of it. Like I wonder if there's something different about his mobility in his throwing motion or whatever on those throws because, you know, you're right, they, you know, they're too short. They're not good enough. I know who was here with me for the New York Daily News tonight. Great utility man right now for us helping cover in the Yankees of a cover in the Giants. Honestly, I feel a little bit bad that Peter's been doing so much work on baseball and on the Yankees. He covered the last two nights when they were losing failing to clinch. Then he gets sent over here to cover a Giants game and he watches a bunch of field goals the Giants lose and meanwhile the Yankees are clinching over there in the Bronx, having a champagne party in the locker room. So I feel bad for him there. But he did great work writing about Malik neighbors tonight. Check out his story as well as my stories on the New York Daily News website. By the way, for those of you not aware on the New York Daily News NFL communist and Giants beat writer, they're doing that since 2016 here at the Daily News used to cover the Rangers and the NHL before that. And also grateful to be hosted here on the Believe Network and also here on the YouTube channel PL on NFL. Make sure you subscribe, like, rate and review. All of the likes help while we are live. Hit the like button, everybody while we are live. That helps us. And it tells Giants fans out there that there's somewhere to post game chat to digest. It's a therapy session. It's conversation. All of that and more. But I brought up Peter Splendoria because on the free play to Slaton, it's a free play. It's an off sides on the Cowboys. And it's an off sides on the Cowboys and he says, why didn't he just put the ball out there? Why was that ball under thrown? It shouldn't be under thrown. You got to put it out there for him to go get. And he was right. He was absolutely right. So, you know, that was something that I thought was a great point by Peter. And I think we saw it come up again in another deep shot intended for Slaton later in the game that Slaton had to come back for. But, you know, I'm sure you guys are pointing this out in the chat too. And I'll get to more of these comments. There were drops too, Slaton had a drop in the red zone. Wanda Robinson had a brutal drop there that arguably could have, that would have been a big play or AKA possibly a touchdown. You know, you never know. Alright, let's get to more questions. Tommy says health and wealth to all Pat. I said take from the Saints playbook and implement it with today's game plan. Unfortunately, they didn't get the memo double lamb make everyone else beat you shaking my head sad to see early. Yeah, it was almost like they waited too long to try to completely, you know, take CD out of the game. Right. And by that time it was too late essentially. With you, you were right Tommy. They didn't listen. Chronicle says one way to define this game is missed opportunities agreed. Hunter says I've got to be at work early in the morning. So I can't stay for the chat, but I will leave a few things to watch for tomorrow. I love it. Hunter said that Malik neighbors as a certified dog cave on finally showed up. We are punting less, but still not putting it in the end zone. We need a tight end in the worst way. I agree there. Hunter says also I've seen a complete of people say a quarterback off an ACL tear. In the knee is it true it takes time to build up strength for deep throws because his arm looks way weaker on a lot of throws he didn't do before. Well, it was on. Oh, in the load knee. Okay, the knee that he's loading on to throw. Yeah, Hunter, that's a good question. That's something to follow up on with Daniel. Didn't ask him specifically if it was the knee tonight, but can follow up on that early next week in the Seattle in the Seattle week. I do know I talked to Dr David Chow. There's an interview up on the YouTube channel now with Dr Chow, where we talked about a bunch of different injuries around the league, including an update on Daniel Jones and where he stands with that knee. And I feel I don't feel like that really came up as a hindrance based on what is normal. It's it's more like usually a hindrance when it comes to, you know, cutting and moving laterally would be something that you'd be looking for. But that's something for me to follow up on. That's a really good question there, Hunter. Barbara says, "Wanda Robinson is too small, dropping passes. Neighbors catches a bunch of four yard passes and couldn't finish the game and hide is a bust." Those are reasons why you don't build championships around a diva wide receiver. Well, Barbara, I would say that you're absolutely right in your assessment there of, you know, listen, Wanda has been playing well, but again, a lot of underneath stuff, right? Neighbors, you're right. They haven't been able to unlock him down the field enough outside of the one 38 yard or so today. And hide it right. It's not looking good there as that third round pick. I wouldn't call them divas, though, Barbara. I would just call them wide receivers who, you know, neighbors is obviously an excellent player. And Juan Dale is a player I've been very critical of, who I feel like is, you know, he's played his best football recently. But to your point, Barbara, it has to be better from the standpoint of just get the ball in the damn end zone, right? Like, at a certain point, enough is enough and the ball just has to go in the freaking end zone, right? Let's see. Mel says productive game, guys. There was a lot to be proud of. And the bigger picture is we're much younger and ambitious now. Keep all the YouTube blog focused on keep all the YouTube blogs focused on building towards the 2025 draft. Because that's a tricky because you're absolutely right that you still want to continue to add good young talent to the roster and build. But you can't be in a position either where you can accept constant losing, right? No matter whether it's a close game or not. And that was the takeaway I got from the Giants players tonight. They don't want to hear you only lost by five. They don't want to hear, Hey, you were close against against the Dallas Cowboys. And remember, Dallas was reeling coming into this game, right? They had lost two straight games and they were the worst rushing defense in football coming in. So the Giants standpoint is, you're right, the GM would want this focused on what you're talking about. You know, that's a big picture thing in the short term and in the, you know, for the head coach for the team like that, you can't just keep losing games, right? You do need to build. And considering the schedule coming up is Seattle Seahawks, Cincinnati Bengals, Philadelphia Eagles, Pittsburgh Steelers, you know, you need wins. You need results. Jacob says, smack that like and sub button for the best Giants reporter in the business. Thank you so much, Jacob, for saying that always for being a huge supporter. By the way, everybody listen up. I have the estate 98 coffee trivia question coming up right around the bend. So I'm not going to jump you with it right now, but in about a minute or two, I'm going to drop the estate 98 giveaway trivia question of the night. So, for those of you who are new to this, I will ask a trivia question a Giants related trivia question. And if you get it correct first in the chat, you will win a free bottle of estate 98 coffee will be mailed directly to you. You'll send your address to my Instagram account, DM me on Instagram, PL and NFL when you win, and I will have a bottle sent out to you. All right. Let's see, let's get to the next question here. All right, the next question in the queue. Michael Knight says good evening, Pat can't run the ball play calling did not help and all the job passes. Brett says, where is jail and Hyatt. I know disappointing jail and Hyatt only 13 snaps again in this game. Even with Darius Layton having a bad thumb, still jail and Hyatt not getting on the field much. Interestingly, at the end when Daniel Jones through that interception, Brian Dable said something about, he goes, yeah, on the interception, you're throwing it down there see if we can get a DPI like a defensive pass interference, or like a contested catch or ball. The implication was, if you watch that play, the ball goes up, Hyatt goes deep for it, but does not, does not get to the ball does not come back to the ball, doesn't challenge the ball for the Amani or a warrior interception. By the way, really nice pick by Amani or a warrior, the former giant who, who recommended a good golf courses, by the way, when he was here with the giant so grateful to him for that. Also, a good, good friend to Saquan Barkley's. All right, Dave says, Dable is overrated as a play caller. Brett says, bring turbo back. Yeah, they have to figure out something on these returns, right? Another fumbled kickoff tonight. Crazy recovery there by Chris Manhertz, who by the way, Manhertz swears that he saw that ball as it was coming back to to recover it. Tommy DeVito and I were calling him out on that saying there's absolutely no way that ball just hit you in the chest, and you were lucky that that flew right there. Manhertz claims he saw it and caught it. So we'll have to see the replay. I did talk to Tyrone Tracy who got benched and demoted from kickoff after that fumble. You know, he basically said, obviously you don't want that to happen and I have to protect the ball at all costs. I was just trying to make a play but there's no excuse I have to protect the ball. I agree, I think turbo deserves a shot. Brett says, do something differently. Hyatt, Tracy, turbo, Ballinger, can't run, can't win. Jones played well again. Daniel played efficiently and played pretty well in a lot of ways. But you don't get in the end zone. You're right, the running game hurts because they're in a lot of like, you know, second and third and longs thanks to the lack of a running game. That's, that's really tough part. So that doesn't help Daniel also drop passes. But like we said, some meat on the bone on those deep throws too. You boy hobby says overall the Giants are not a good team. They're losing culture starts at the top. They messed up years ago by firing Coughlin and not Reese ownership's mindset is off. Joey B says, this is some bullshit. I can imagine Joey B not being pleased because. Listen, I like where your guys largely your heads at and where the players heads are at. And listen, this was my job is just to ask the question. But I thought it was a good thing that the Giants players were saying, like, this is not good enough, you know, I like that. Because the only way you become a team that does have a better culture and does get back to a winning tradition is by understanding and admitting that this is not good enough. Just playing tough against the division opponent is not good enough over over five against the Dallas Cowboys as a regime is horrendous. Jim Osborne says we lost the game in the trenches. We couldn't run on the worst run defense average one yard carry and we couldn't stop their run. Barbara says Joe Shane and Eagles guy Brandon Brown got to go. They have no idea how to build a championship team in New York. Bill says I finally found a group of Giants fans in Southern California to hang out and watch games with. And we suck again. Damn it. Hey Bill, at least you have some people to commiserate with right. That's a step. Bombo says looking sharp pregame Pat. Thank you bombo. Yeah. Hey, listen, I don't want to brag but I felt good about my salarrettas fit tonight. That's by the way that salarretta for men in Midland Park, New Jersey. Any of you guys in the New York New Jersey metropolitan area. Go check out Salarrettas in Midland Park. They have amazing clothing for men. If you're trying to look sharp. Salarretta is the spot. He says, I wasn't happy about it. By the way, if you guys don't know, I do a rival videos for me and the players every Sunday. Put some music to it or every game. It's a lot of fun. So check it out. Bombo says, I wasn't happy about it in the off season and now every week that passes. I'm feeling more and more like releasing Xavier and Saekon and spending that money on burns was a mistake. You need more from burns. He was in the backfield a lot tonight, but ended up not making a ton of plays. I felt like the Cowboys were steering him like they weren't blocking him easily, but they were steering him away. Dak was maneuvering out of the way. Burns had three tackles, one tackle for loss, one QB hit. Giants only had one sack tonight from cave on Thibodeau. Thibodeau was active at times, drew a couple holding penalties had a sack, but again, not good enough. Barbara makes a good point here, points out that the Giants dominated time of possession. Yes, they did have the ball 35 minutes and 37 seconds. Cowboys had it 24 minutes and 23 seconds. That's what's crazy. It's crazy for a team to dominate possession without running the ball, that you don't usually see that. Usually when teams are throwing the ball well, you know, they're moving it a little quicker and scoring more points, rather than, you know, to throw the ball more at average, one yard a carry and have it for 35 minutes and only score 15 points to strange statline. Let's see. D-Kit says my disappointment knows no bounds with this team. Bill Hartnett says you should have been around in 1974. We were basically the Panthers. D-Kit says I was around in 74, Bill. I still have my John Mendenhall jersey. Barbara says Danny Dimes was throwing, straining to throw the ball deep. Try lock. Maybe I don't know anymore. You know what was interesting? By the way, Bill says back to D-Kit. Nice. I forgot you were a member of the old man crew like me. NYC. What's up? Good to see you. Yeah. Something crossed my mind there. I forgot what I was going to say. I'll come back to it. Hooks. What's up, Hooks? Says drops, penalties, phantom penalties. No run game. Not throwing the ball into the end zone when we were there. Hurt us in this game. Yeah, you guys definitely saw you were able to break this down pretty effectively, it seems. Bill says giants consistently throw behind the sticks instead of ahead of them, and it's really annoying. Yeah, Dable has a lot of ways to get the guys the ball in space in short catch and runs, but there's nothing really deep. There's not a lot deep, right? It's just not enough. You need to make explosive plays in this league. You just do. Yeah, Barbara says too many four yard passes to neighbors. No yak either. Mickey says Daniel Jones can't throw the ball deep. What do you guys think? I see Barbara said earlier that you might as well try Drew Locke to try to throw more deep balls. Do you think that that's a prudent thing or, you know, with Daniel Jones being efficient, even though he's not hitting those? Do you think just kind of keep running Daniel Jones back and like it'll hit eventually? What do you guys think about that? Oh, that's what I wanted to bring up, Barbara. Thank you for jogging my memory here on this. You know, it was interesting. You guys should go back and look before the game. Albert Breer, who is kind of the contributing analyst for Amazon right now. And he and Rapid Board of NFL Network both put out reports about essentially promising progress that Daniel Jones is showing and indications about what that could mean for him possibly as remaining the franchise quarterback here. I thought that was very interesting to see. There's a lot of PR pushing going on around the giants in the giants from the giants from people connected to the giants or maybe player agents around the giants right like there's, there's a lot going on there. I just thought that was very interesting and I think you guys should check those reports out. They'll be online. One was like a spot on the prime broadcast that was on social media from Amazon prime video. And then another was an NFL network segment pregame. Let's see NYC says, what's up, Pat? What's with the seemingly systemic acceptance of excuses at 1925 Giants Drive? Simply put, why are we? This episode is brought to you by progressive insurance, fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds because progressive offers discounts for pain and full, owning a home and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it, so your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance, progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates, potential savings will vary, not available in all states or situations. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to LinkedIn.com/results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. The way that we are Go Irish. Go Irish is right, NYC. Appreciate you. Yeah, I mean, that's really good question. I think that there are a lot of people. This isn't just the giants either NYC. People who work for these organizations do a lot of trying to justify their own evaluations where they fall in love with the players that they drafted or that they have. And they form relationships with those players and they like them as people and representatives of their organization. And then, you know, they see them do some good things on the field and they feel like it justifies things. You know, it kind of tends to snowball sometimes where, you know, maybe you can't see the forest from the tree through the trees all the time. In other words, hey, there are some encouraging things. However, the overall product and the progress is not good enough, right? And so I think the giants often struggle to understand fully and accept who they are and what they are. And then the way that they proceed is flawed, because their evaluation of themselves is inaccurate. That's usually what I see. Let's say, all right. Yeah, hook agrees with Bill on one day with the catch and run. He says, I like one day, but he can't make everyone miss every time. Yeah, exactly. It's almost like a limited usage skill set in the way that these guys are used in this offense at the moment. Bill says, Daniel Jones was throwing him into danger, Brady talked about it, you can't throw the ball that will get your guys hurt and now he's concussed. Well, throwing him into danger maybe but also, you know, Dabel was just dialing up play calls left and right for neighbors. So I think it's play calling, it's also the quarterback, what are you leading the guy into? Really, Bill, it's just from a big picture standpoint. Isn't their offense completely reliant on neighbors? Like, isn't, I mean, listen, they have a long week here. So hopefully he's better for the Seattle game. But what does their offense look like without Malik neighbors if he can't play in that game. Like, there's just so much relying on him and I thought, I don't know if you guys could see this watching on television, but here at the stadium, it became very clear in the early second half or so or mid third quarter that neighbors physically was starting to wear down. You could see the hit starting to take their tolls a little bit more, right? Did you guys notice that he was getting up slower. His teammates had to kind of run over and pick him up off the ground. So I don't think necessarily the Giants adjusted to that enough, as far as not targeting him as much necessarily but also, again, like their offense runs through him. Christopher A says losing tonight's game was worse than getting blown out. I tried to not be too hopeful, but secretly I was excited up until that interception at the end shaking my head. Let's see. The kid says I have news for all of you this team is mired in a loser mentality we don't make plays throws tackles we don't know how to win. Bill says looking sharp pat thank you so much bill really appreciate that. Barbara says Pat I'm sad no medals for trying. Yeah, no doubt. I'm just trying to be fair to them because I've seen a lot worse, but I agree. I mean, if I were a player I'd be saying the same thing. But I noticed that the coach is good with a loss and accepting losing. Alex, that's an interesting point by you is that even though table said the law still hurts. He did not sound the same way as all the players. I think that's a really good point. All the players would like to know moral victories tables like I see progress here. Now, you know, there is progress in the fact that they were competitive in this game compared to other things, but that's an interesting point by you for sure. Super chat, and then we're going to get into the queue. Or no, I'm going to read the super chat, and then we are going to do the estate 98 coffee trivia. Wow, a lot of questions in the queue here you guys are rolling. All right. Well, then said, Newman and Banks look bad. O line pass pro looks great. Pass protection was a positive in this game. Pass protection was definitely a positive in this game. I think it was by far the best we've seen the Giants O line in front handle this Dallas, this Dallas Cowboys. For version of. Of their defensive line and past Russia's right. So I agree. The best they have the best that they have handled them. But unfortunately still don't get in the end zone. Bill with the super chat says yes, completely reliant on Malik neighbors. Great point, but you can't keep throwing to him when he'll get blown up. Now he's going to be out. So what's left? No, a great point, especially like Bill, the play that Daniel really shouldn't have thrown him the ball was on the shallow cross over to the right in the red zone. You could see the defender bearing down on that and he still threw it. Now, it's hard though, too, because neighbors is a guy who can make people miss. So it's like, okay, give him a chance to make a guy missed, but that was a play where he shouldn't have given it to him. He was going to get blown up there. All right, time for the estate 98 trivia question of the night. The Giants last beat the Dallas Cowboys in 2020 named the two defensive players on the Giants in that game, who were tied for the team lead in tackles. The Giants last beat the Dallas Cowboys in 2020 named the two defensive players who tied for the team lead in tackles in that game. Put the answer in the comment section. The first person to answer with both names correct wins a bottle of a state 98 coffee. This is not as hard as the one last time. Our trivia question last time at everybody stumped, Kate and Smith was killing you in that last trivia question last time. I was proud of that one. Authentic. What's up, authentic. Authentic says Logan Ryan and Adrian Colbert. No, great guess, but no. Barbara says McKinney and decks. I don't know. No. Michael Knight says landing Collins and Blake Martinez. No, incorrect, but good guesses all around. Let's see who's going to come in with the correct answer. D kits as Collins and Ryan. No. Let's see. Let's see. McKinney and Darnay Holmes. No. All right, I won't. Man, I've been getting you guys lately. This is two. This is two chats in a row. I've been stomping the chat. I'm proud of myself. I felt like I was making it too easy early on. Let's see. Authentic wins. Authentic wins. Tate Crowder and Blake Martinez is the answer. Tate Crowder and Blake Martinez. Authentic, I think you've won. I think you may have won before, but make sure you DM me your address on Instagram. Send me your address on Instagram, DM me on IGPL on NFL, and you get a free bottle of estate, 98 coffee. Hey, it doesn't matter if he looked it up. It took like two minutes, three minutes, four minutes, whatever. At that point, anything is fair game. Let's be fair. So, Simeon, the question was, who are the two Giants defensive players who led them in tackles with tied with 11 tackles apiece, the last time the Giants beat the Cowboys in 2020. And yes, it was Tate Crowder and Blake Martinez. All right, I'm going to try to get through more of the queue here. This is actually a good time to remind you guys of our sponsors again. Mybookie.ag, please open an account on my bookie and use my promo code, Pat's Picks. It will get you a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more, all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. You click on the link in any of my social media profiles or bios. Click on that mybookie link and enter that promo code when you make your deposit, you'll get that deal. If you bet my props tonight, you would have hit. Rico Dattle over over yards and over carries. They both hit. So, you're welcome. I hit on Juan Dale Robinson over receiving yards last week. You're welcome. Have more Pat's picks coming this weekend. Stay tuned for those coming on all my social channels courtesy of my bookie. But really, if you're looking to bet underdogs, overs, props, parlays, whatever it is, go to my bookie. If you're already there, they have a new loyalty rewards program. My bookie plus, they have wrist free Thursdays. If your boosted bet doesn't hit on Thursdays, you get money back, weekly, no sweats, win, win bets. It's a football season long make football season a winning season with my bookie bet anything anytime anywhere. Also a state 98 coffee. You saw authentic just win a bottle of a state 98 coffee with our trivia. We do trivia every talking ball with Pat Leonard live and post game live. It's delicious. It works great as an ice coffee works great as a hot coffee or latte. You can make it 10 seconds. You can make a nice coffee or good as a mixer in like an espresso martini popular drink. One I enjoy very much. Go to a state 98.com backslash talking ball to get a special buy one. 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Purchase a bag using the talking ball 25 code. You'll get the discount and then you don't have to stay subscribed. You can cancel. No harm. No foul. You don't. There won't be any penalties. You can just cancel the subscription. I do think you'll stay with it if you subscribe because I think you'll like the product. But that's just a reminder to you guys. You can get a great deal there. Do it with the subscribe and save. All right. Let's get back in the queue. And if I see repeat questions, I'll try to jump past them just to make sure I try to get through the queue as much as possible tonight because I see a lot of people weighing in. You Giants fans of die hard. It is 123 am on September 27, 2024. And we have, we've had basically 125 people in here 130 over 100 still consistently throughout the chat, going 45 minutes strong almost really proud of the community we're building here. It continues to grow. But those of you who are new, I'm the NFL, Thomas and Giants beat writer for the New York Daily News, and also host of talking ball with Pat Leonard and talking about live with Pat Leonard on the Believe Network. Always can find us here on the YouTube channel, PL on NFL. And if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, or anywhere you get your audio podcast on the Believe Network, please feel free to tune in on the YouTube channel next time live with us. And thank you for listening on the audio version as well. Thank you so much. I like great reviews subscribe doing all that. All right, let me get back in the queue here. Hook said we should have went one bottom line. John says, Pat, why is table not addressing the running back fumbles it's every week. I think it's just a personnel thing I mean these are the guys on their team, you know, one thing sake one bark we did not do a lot of is fumble for sure. We'll call is dev and single Terry fumble Terry out. Let's see. Jacob says Pat the people sitting on Daniel Jones are crazy the amount of drops is nuts what else can Jones do. Enough blame there's enough blame to go around right for sure. But yeah, you have to, you have to mention the drops when you talk about the team not getting in the end zone that's absolutely true. The optimal also points out that Daniel sometimes overthrows balls obviously there were some underthrows today to Barbara says Shane needs to draft better we don't make any difference making plays I agree with that the drafts haven't been good enough. The optimal says deep ball is non existent field average yards per throw is six yards. Jacob says still one day I'll drop the first down catch slate and second drop was on the money. Chausky says it's a shame we are over using Malik like this just to possibly edge out a win poor offense. See that's a great that's a great point Chausky I'm glad you said that. Doesn't everything look so difficult for the Giants on offense. Doesn't it everything just look like an absolute like grind and it's a grind it's a slug right like. And even when they're making progress it's like oh my god, could we just have one play where it looks easy for them right. I mean right. That's a great point Chausky. And listen, this goes back to the point of listen forget whether you're where you fall on saquon as a player whatever. But we've said this a lot on this channel but I think it bears repeating. Saquon Barkley plus Malik neighbors would have augmented this offense but adding neighbors and subtracting Saquon right does that give Daniel Jones the best chance you want to load up to give him the best chance. You don't want to subtract a great weapon to add. Maybe that's part of the reason why you're so over reliant on somebody. Jacob says one Dale had two or three jobs that were on the money. Yeah unfortunately like so on first down with Benny Fowler our podcast that's up on the channel now our review of week three in the NFL. Then he was pointing out one thing that impressed him about neighbors was that he catches the ball with his hands that he's a really good hands receiver all hands. A lot of receivers in the NFL even really good ones who catch with their bodies in their hands. Like Benny said he would catch with his body. He said Emmanuel Sanders who was a great receiver caught with his body a fair amount. One Dale Robinson catches with his body a fair amount. So you see some jobs. John says one Dale needs to stop failing to get the first down. You boy hobby said the Giants run a mediocre operation organizationally and that's being kind. They quit on young town overpay for good but not great draft average players they can't develop. John says one Dale's always a yard short. Big Mike says Joe Joe Shane needs to be fired before he messes up our quarterback position. optimal says slate and also if Daniel Jones leads that throw to neighbors in the first quarter that's a possible touchdown. I agree you can't just lower get just layer that throw into a wide open neighbors you have to leave. Barbara also says we need to tight end Theo Johnson is just a project. Let's see optimal says John Mara needs to step down. John says Tay Banks is overrated. I like Tay Banks a lot but he's having a really tough start to the year. Also didn't love the finish on the CD lamb touchdown. Didn't love it. Need to see more there. Michael says Daniel Jones would be an average quarterback if he could just hit the deep ball. Jackson says I'm going to fight with my team to the end. optimal points out that the Giants needed Dory Jackson and Drew Phillips back ASAP at corner. optimal says there is no fight left. Let's see. All right let's get to more. Some more McKinney some more Adam Green says he misses Xavier McKinney. I agree that was a good player. The Giants definitely underrated him. No doubt about it. Let's see. Dave G says at least I have my Yankees. Yeah way to go Yanks clinching hopefully an exciting fall run coming from the Yanks. That would be great to see the football season at least for Giants fans not heading the way that anybody wants to see. So I definitely think that we're all rooting for a Yankee run and then obviously Rangers. Nick's coming up. Simeon says we all knew this was going to be a long and disappointing season. Unfortunately that is what it looked like. Barbara says Bill you're definitely right. Daniels dimes his under through neighbors on the long one on the sidelines that he caught. It should have been a TD. Yeah he did. It was almost like hey I just have to make sure this is completed because he's so open. But if you put it out in front of him could he have scored right. Let's see. John says burns contract looks a lot worse than Daniel Jones contract at the moment. Barbara also points out that Julian Love was good too. Yeah and they'll see Julian Love and Leonard Williams next week in Seattle. Let's see. Mike Ross says can dariously not drop the ball for once. Playing with a bad thumb but you know either. Yeah basically coaching staff job player job everybody's job is hey if you're playing you got to make the play. Really that's what it comes down to. Optimal says flat played well but gave up that big TD play to CD. That was that was Tay Banks who gave up that touchdown to CD. Flott played better today for some incompletions on some on some stop routes. Also gave up some as well though you know played better but not well enough if that makes sense. Jackson thinks the Giants can beat Seattle that's a tough place to win. You know they all they will be facing a rookie head coach but it's pretty good team and Seattle's had their number. Barbara says Giants scored as many points as Eagles did Sunday and still lost. Yep. This was at home to Eagles were on the road. John says the Giants defense as a whole can't tackle in the open field it's pathetic. Mike says what's your perspective on why the average depth per target is so low even with a good offensive line. Mike I think I think it's because. So the O line is better but if you notice table still does protect them with a fair amount of screen passes and also tends to keep in at least one sometimes two extra blockers to kind of max protect. They don't always have as many receivers running routes so sometimes there's not a ton of receivers running routes so they don't have as many guys downfield. So like if you have a two man route or a three man route max on a lot of plays. You know then a lot of those plays you either have one or none going deep depending on what it looks like. And then also you know Hyatt who is one of their top four receivers is purely a deep threat is not playing really 13 13 steps. So then like one Dale Robinson is not a deep threat right he's an underneath receiver he does it well but he's underneath. So now you're only talking about two guys on your roster who go who can go deep and neighbors is a guy who they're shadowing and shading over top of the safety. Like Dallas would consistently shade their safety over to neighbors. So then he's running more underneath so it was really tonight it was essentially slate in here and there and that was it other than neighbors getting behind the Cowboys secondary corner there on that one play so I hope that I hope that explains it. Also you see like you know Daniel Jones has to let some of these rip like there was a play where Hyatt got open in a window against the zone downfield and Daniel threw it underneath the Wandale as he was moving to his right like to me that's just a vision thing. You know I don't know why he didn't throw it to hide on that play. And then, you know your depth, your depth for target. I mean, I think Dave ball is trying to with his team. Like in this game you saw the ball control is a strategic element of it like it goes back to 2022 where it was like okay, our defense personnel isn't great. You can't force them to play a ton of this game. So we've got to try to control the ball keep them up the field, even if we're only kicking field goals is still better than continuing to give the ball back to the other offense and giving them more cracks at our defense. So the ball control element is, you know, better than taking shots and going three and out and get putting your defense back on the field tired to give up a touchdown. I mean it's a, it's a, it's a frustrating way to evaluate how your team is playing because you don't want to play conservatively and you don't want to not take shots but those are all the contextual elements that I hope can give you an answer to how why they play how they play. Hook says, hi, it needs his chance now optimal says table and Shane need their quarterback Mike says he's losing hope on Daniel Jones. Aziki says banks is coverage on CDs TD was pathetic and embarrassing he even gave up on the play once the ball was caught didn't even try to chase him. Yeah, I didn't love that the end of that play did not love that play got some text from people about that play. People notice saying watching on television people in the league saying, who was that not finishing that play chasing CD lamb. So, I did not get a chance to talk to banks in the locker room afterwards. He was in there, he did do some interviews I just I just didn't catch him. He said, I'll be. Jackson says Dallas played their best and barely won Dallas did not play their best definitely not. Barbara says she's a Notre Dame fan too. All right, Barbara I went to Notre Dame class of '06 Dylan Hall. Running game issues are fumbling fumbling and you know 1.1 yards per carry. Mike says not starting to lose hope but still very concerned about Daniel Jones and leaning towards finding his replacement. Well, they were trying to find his replacement last offseason. So, very interesting though, like I said, go back and look at those news reports before the game from NFL Network and from Amazon. Really interesting. Let's see. Yeah, what is with the Fumbles on kick returns lately that Michael Gabriel, the special teams coordinator has to answer to that. So does Brian Dave all with personnel deployment. Mike says the refs love helping the Cowboys and Chiefs. Face mask on Bellinger was terrible and negated a possible touchdown drive for a field goal. It was clearly not a face mask. I don't know why they didn't use replay to fix it. I don't know either. That was strange. But I disagree with your, you know, the officials loop love the Cowboys thing there. I mean, I'm sure you watch the same game I did, but the Cowboys had 11 penalties. They had nine penalties in the first half. Nine. And listen, it's not even the reps like Dallas is always on discipline. They always commit a ton of penalties. But I mean, yeah, that play was that call was a terrible call. The Giants got screwed there. I don't know what that was that penalty call for sure. But, but yeah, I mean, there's definitely definitely plenty of calls went against the Cowboys in this game. No doubt about it. Let's see. I'm going to stay in the queue here, guys. If you have a question or comment that I have an answer and you want to make sure I get to throw up a super chat or super sticker and I will find it. Tim wants to know if the Giants will put an end to their 13 game slide against the Cowboys on Thanksgiving. Good question, Tim. I think injuries will have a lot to do with that on both sides. I mean, the Cowboys really got banged up tonight. Micah Parsons with that leg injury carted off. That's a big deal. Trayvon Diggs. That was dehydration. But, you know, injuries can have a lot to do with it. Like, for example, the Giants offensive lines pretty healthy right now. Will it be healthy for Thanksgiving, right? Will it be healthy? I think that'll have a lot to do with it. Like I would say, if both teams are relatively healthy with their key players, the Giants don't win the game. If the Cowboys are really banged up and the Giants are still healthy, they have a chance. It's going to be harder to score a touchdown on the road than it is here. I'll tell you that. And they didn't score a touchdown here. By the way, how good is Demarvian overshawn, the linebacker for the Cowboys? Now, this guy was at the senior bowl two years ago, played at Texas. And he's one of those guys where, like, you ever been in a basketball gym and you see somebody walk in from a team that's playing in a game and that's upcoming in a tournament, and you just look over and you say, "Who the heck is that?" That's what overshawn is. He looks like a great athlete and looks like a guy who you're like, "Man, I'll take..." You know, if you're playing flag football at recess, you're like, "Ah, I'll take him." And he was hurting out all last year. Man, that guy can play. Big time player, Demarvian overshawn. John says DJ hasn't had a deep threat in a very long time, and his previous neck injuries are causing his inaccuracy. Simeon says Chad Pennington's arm was weaker, but he couldn't anticipate when to let the ball go much better. Let's see. Mickey says, "This was a winnable game, just like the commander's game, and let it get away." NYC says, "Be right back, trying to breathe, about to try to breathe through a pillow under water in a plastic." NYC. Oh my goodness. Sounds like a Sopranos reference. Let's see. optimal wants to know why trade up for jail in Hyatt and not utilize him. That's definitely going to be one of the many questions for Joe Shane when he presumably does his annual bi-week press conference. 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Go to LinkedIn.com/results to claim your credit. That's LinkedIn.com/results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. Science franchise is lost. Andre says drops were big, but the Giants don't seem to throw the ball in the end zone. Diggs was hurt, and they didn't even go at his replacement. Yeah, that was a pretty good throw by Daniel, I thought. Darius Slaton should have caught that. You know, so, I mean, it wasn't a perfect pass, but it was a catchable ball. He should have caught it. Mike says zero aggression had all the opportunities in the red zone. Montana, New York says, Pat, what is your thought on the overall offensive play call? Montana, I think. I think Dabel shows an ability to be able to scout what the opposing defensive coordinator likes to do and is vulnerable at, and he has, coming into these games, some play calls and protections drawn up to attack those, like, pressures or blitzes and to try to take advantage of them and, like, counter them when he sees them coming in certain situations. So, for example, there was a play tonight where Mike Zimmer sent a corner blitz from Daniel's left, and the Giants had Singletary stay in on purpose to specifically pick that up. Like, they knew it was coming based on the down and distance situation. They saw it, and he protected him, and he ripped the throw out to the left, I think, for a completion. And so, also, a lot of catch and run schemes, but Dabel does have some, he has favorite things he goes back to, like, the shallow cross for neighbors. Teams know that now. Like, you saw the way that the Cowboys anticipated that in the second half, and it led to, like, a really big collision there and a big hit on neighbors. You know, that's going to happen when you keep running the same thing. I think they are drawing up some deep shots. I will say this. I do not like the back, the throwback deep shots that he's calling. Like, he's called that twice in the last two weeks now, and both times in the Cleveland game. So, like, it was, it should have been intercepted tonight. You know, the back, the throwback to, to neighbors in this game should have been intercepted, and then last game in Cleveland, he should have been intercepted, and neighbors had to knock it down. It was a throwback to Theo Johnson, the tight end, and had to be knocked down, right? So, I don't like that play. I say, scratch that, you know, I say, stop using it, get it out. I don't like it. So, what do you guys think of the play calling? I mean, clearly, the biggest weakness, and Dave will said this after the game, the biggest weakness is, they can't run the ball. And, you know, of course, not getting the ball in the end zone is the biggest weakness. That's the biggest problem. But, you know, so, scheming up, scheming up runs that can function, like, scheming up runs that'll work for your offense. I mean, for all the talk that I'm saying about him anticipating what defenses are going to throw at him, and, you know, trying to counter it and all of that. I mean, you kind of got to be able to figure out a way to run the ball on the NFL's worst running defense. You can't figure out a way. It's 1.1 yard per carry for that. Mike says, "And no worlds with the Giants defense have to pitch a shutout every game for us to have a chance." Offense has to actually take accountability and make changes, no doubt. Yep, and he's the play caller. Let's see. None of the receivers make game-changing plays other than neighbors, says Evan. Let's see, Simeon says, "How it hasn't had enough opportunities to be called a bust just yet." Jackson says, "We need Davante Adams. I would trade a first round pick for him." Mike says, "Can you ask the team for me why there are an Ed Zone shots being taken and dialed up? Is it DJ not throwing it, or is it Dan? Is it Dable not drawing it up correctly?" Good question, Mike, I will ask. There's nothing productive about not scoring a touchdown. It's as optimal. That well said. Hakeem says, "Do you think the ball should have been spread out using only two wide receivers 90% of the time seems to be limiting?" Yeah, no, I think, you know, as much as that reflects encouraging production for those players, it also reflects that they don't have other options. They're getting nothing out of the tight end position. And listen, Joe Shane has spent two mid-round draft picks and a third round pick as well in a trade on a tight end. So he drafted Daniel Bellinger in the fourth. He drafted Theo Johnson in the fourth, and he traded a third for Dow and Waller. That's three tight end acquisitions with picks in three years. And they have nothing in the receiving game for the receivers. The best receiver is Chris Manhertz because of his blocking ability. Jackson says, "I like your professionalism. You are a great talent. I am flattered, Jackson. Thank you." optimal says neighbors workload too much right now, he will eventually wear and tear, spread the wealth. Evan says, "The defense has a hard time stopping the run. Jones wasn't terrible, but not good enough, another loss. Their defense is not good enough against the run. That is well said." All right, we got another super chat coming in. Let's see. Let's get down here. I got the little ping. I see a bubble pop up. Let's see. Oh, I got a nice little $2 there from Bill says just saying thanks for the show, Pat. Bill, thank you so much, man. You're always checking in like that. I appreciate that. Mark says, "Dayball play calling was impressive. Time to move Neil to guard to get running game going. Hands tied with no running game." That's an interesting idea, Mark. I actually asked, I have to go back and find that answer. I asked Carmen Brasillo if they would consider Evan Neil to help their running game a couple of weeks ago. He said something like Evan's doing his turn, waiting, waiting, working hard. He is a good run blocker, but we like our group or whatever it was. That's a really interesting point, Mark. I'm actually going to jot that down. I always say this, I learned as much from you guys in these as you guys learn from me. That was not something at the top of my mind coming out of this game, but you're absolutely right. That's a really good question. Of course, can you sacrifice your pass protection for that as the question? Mark, you're getting to... Now, this is another frustrating thing about Giants fans in recent years or teams in recent years, Giants teams, but like when Jason Garrett was here, I know that name gives you shivers. Jason Garrett was here. There were a lot of times where like they would run plays that were predictable based on the personnel in the field, but the way Garrett felt it was like, "Well, I don't want to be predictable, but if I know that there's only one way to run this one play effectively with this personnel, so I want to run the play the best way it can be. So I'd rather have the best personnel in the field for the play and be predictable than try to disguise it, but have guys who can't execute." So that's the change, but I bring that up to say, you know, so like you're not going to sacrifice... You're not going to put Evan Knee on the field if you don't trust him to protect Daniel Jones in the passing downs, but maybe you put him on as a sixth offensive lineman on run downs, and even if the defense knows it probably means a run, you know, or maybe you put him on the field as an extra lineman instead of one of these tight ends who's not giving you anything in the passing game anyway. Not a bad idea, Mark, kind of like it. I'm giving... Mark, by the way, just as... Everyone in the chat has chipped in, like DK had chipped in on some good questions and trends coming in. I think it was Mark and Dave also, or Dave, but so Mark right now, if Evan Neal is on the field next week, Mark Sullivan is the reason why. Just telling you right now. Brett says the answer, let's see. DJ Baby Fat Davidson, the question is who do we need to replace? Let's see. I don't know what that was in reference to, something I was talking about earlier. But yeah, not a good player. Simeon says, "If Jones puts the ball in the end zone in front of jail and high, it's a touchdown." Othomel says, "Are there any veteran quarterbacks available at the moment?" You mean like on the trade market, listen, Brian Tanhill is still a free agent. I mean, Dan, they're not, they're not, like, I got to look at what your guys answers were about whether you want to see some Drew Locke. But with Daniel Jones plays an efficient game like this, you better believe that lots of people in the Giants organization think that he played great, even though they didn't get in the end zone. Definitely, that is what people, you know, I'll check into what sources around the building think, but, you know, I can promise you that. That's an interesting dilemma, right? I could easily see plenty of people in the Giants building saying Daniel's playing great. I could see some others saying, we're not scoring any touchdowns. We need to score touchdowns. Lucas says, "Besides last week, we've been exposed at defensive tackle next to Dexter and depth when Dexter is out." Yeah, Dex had a quiet game today too. Cowboys interior really handled him. And yeah, I mean, this is something I and many of you saw coming from a mile away. Their interior is not good enough. They can't stop the run. They're not a good run defense. All right, let's see. All right, what do we got? Mark, thanks again for that Super Chat. All right, let's get back in the queue. Yeah, sorry about that. Jackson was contributing some comments, but he was really kind of spamming the chat. So I just kind of, you know, that's the first time I've ever put someone in a timeout, but it was really clogging things up and I want to make sure I get to as many comments as possible. We're a minute, we're an hour 12 in, trying to get through the chat to all of you loyal followers and listeners here, almost 2 a.m., still over 100 people in here. You guys are the best. Optimal says, "Move players around and stock up on draft capital at this point." Let's see. Brett says, "We can beat the 85 Bears next game, guaranteed we're going in rested and pissed. Maybe just maybe, tough place to play in Seattle." Hakim says, "Who F in cares about time domination when you can't capitalize?" No doubt, no doubt. Barbara is very upset over the losing. I can understand that, Barbara. Brett says, "How did Dex do against BB? I wanted to get him." Yep, I thought the Giants should have drafted Cooper BB. Cowboys interior offensive line looked good tonight and Dexter was very quiet. Dexter was double team the whole game. He's double teamed every game. Bill says, "I don't need all deep balls. I need first downs and not fourth and once." Barbara needs four TDs and wins. Eric says, "Our fanbase is terrible, ungrateful, and disloyal, and we wonder why our karma is terrible. Banks got picked on the entire first half, the drops, but blamed the guy who threw for almost 300 yards." Optimal says, "That's ignorant. We've been waiting six years for Danny to get his act together." Eric, I don't think people are ungrateful to Daniel after a game. I think, you know, I do think it's unfair to just pin it on him, obviously, especially with the drops, but I do think it's fair in context, Eric, to point out like they didn't score a touchdown today, right? So that is on the quarterback as well as on receivers, play calling everything, right? Running game. In the running game is a huge part of it. So I think Daniel's a part of it, but obviously to your point, a lot of other things went wrong. But Eric, I do think it's okay to be critical. Like it doesn't make you ungrateful to be critical. I think being critical of a team when it's not good enough is, you know, fans wanting it to be better. But I see your point of view too, for sure. And also, I would say this, the Giants' players sounded as critical as anything. I mean, they didn't want to hear bullshit about how well they did by going toe to toe or anything like that. They didn't want to hear any of it. Let's see, Brett says, "I think he throws it to Wandel a second too soon." Interesting on the play where Wandel got tackled in the red zone and they kicked a field goal. Wandel made a comment. He said, "I was hoping to get the ball a little bit earlier," that's what he said. Christopher said, "If neighbors get 20 targets, but we don't score, what's the point? Dable needs to spread the ball around more." Guys have to be open and be real weapons too, though. Robert says, "I noticed on neighbors, Pat, he took some big hits and it adds up, no doubt." Brett says, "I thought neighbors blew his knee out on that one play. Keep high it on the field next game." No, it was a concussion, but yeah, it was scary, it wasn't moving. Yes, the Cowboys did get banged up in this game, D-Kit, no doubt. Let's see. Authentic makes a good point. He says, "I'm sure you all talked about it, 22 rushes for 24 yards." Actually, it was 24 rushes for 26 yards for 1.1 a carry. Devin Singletary, 14 carries for 24 yards, and another fumble, like, it wasn't called a fumble, very close to being a fumble. Do running backs matter? I don't know. Big Mike says, "Need the camward throw montage bad after this win or after this loss, authentic." That's funny. authentic says, "I got you, big Mike. Authentic is the man." Brett said the trivia question was a trick question because the Giants never repeat the Cowboys. Mick says, "Flop played well. What is going on with tight end not being used in the passing game?" Flop played better, but he had some up and down, like, it was up and down. He didn't play well, he up and down. That's what I say. But he's competing. That's good to see. That ends not being used. Theo Johnson has shown a penchant for dropping some passes. Daniel Bellinger is a guy that you can tell. They drafted over him with Theo Johnson. They signed Chris Manards. These tight ends are not fleet of foot. I mean, Dallas was putting, like, their slower linebacker on Theo Johnson, essentially knowing that he wasn't going to get thrown to, really tough. So Theo Johnson, 48 snaps tonight. Let's see what the snaps look like. So 65 snaps for the offense. That was Jones on the lineman. Neighbors played 58, slate and played 55, Singletary 45, Theo 45, Wandale 42, Manhertz 29. Daniel Bellinger only 11 snaps in this game. Bellinger has been, essentially, for the most part. He played more snaps last game but essentially phased out. The guys are just not weapons in the passing game. Hopefully Theo Johnson grows into something more in that regard but doesn't look promising there. I think what you're hoping for there is a good blocker who can be a weapon in the passing game at some point, at least in the red zone. Maurice says Pat, I was at the game, fans need to get fired up on, fans need to get fired up, too relaxed in there for a Dallas Cowboys game. Interesting point, Maurice. I think, honestly, they were ready to explode if they saw something exciting come down and they did get excited by the first three and out but then they just, Giants weren't able to score a touchdown and get them going. And I thought that was a part of it. I also think that, you know, the one time I did hear them was when Dave will kick that field goal and fourth and goal from the three. Bill says, "Well, I'm in SoCal, so no big E for me. I love late night football talk, but you might want to hit this accident." But I guess that's what the boom chaggy is for. That's right. What the chaggy is for? Let's see, Barbara, look at you pushing through, tired but staying a bit longer. Yeah, we're at 120 right now, probably wrap it up by about 130. So I'm going to try to get down to the queue here and then we'll get out of here. Brett says, "Barkly dropped all his would-be fumbles." That's funny. Andre says, "Well, they can run an effective screen now." That's true. But again, starting to, you don't want to be too predictable with that. Brett says, "Can we not go to Malik on fourth down next week, please? We will give him a complex." Bill points out that Saquon tipped three balls. Sounds good. Thank you. I'll be out of here then. Into interceptions last year, didn't he? Yeah, right. No, true. Barbara says, "The giant's O-line is pretty good on past blocking, but not on run blocking, it seems." Yep, agree. That was definitely the case tonight. Bill says, "John Marr is not the problem. He let Judge get Tony and is instead of taking Parsons." Yeah, bad mistake there. Brett says, "Theo Johnson removed." Theo Johnson reminds me of the Herman Munster. He looks stiff. Oh man, what a comment from Brett. D-Kits says, "Arts Stapleton definitively stated the other day that Joe Shane and Brian Dable aren't going anywhere at the end of the year wondering how he could say this." Yeah, I can't say. That's a good question. I think really, you know, if the giants show progress and have an encouraging season in several ways, you can say that. But if they go in the tank record-wise and they can't win games and it's a horrible record and regression throughout the organization and the team, it's very difficult to sit and say that. So I would never say that, I agree. Damian says, "Is Dable shell shock too and won't let Jones wait until the routes are past the yard marker?" I don't know. Yeah, I definitely think it partially probably a lack of trust in the quarterback. Brett says, "We traded up to get Hyatt to get 13 snaps a game." Yeah, Maurice, offensive game plan, I thought ball control, but, you know, you'd like to see aggressiveness into the end zone, need to score touchdowns. And I would have gone for that fourth and three in the red zone. Big Dog says Shane doesn't deserve to get his own quarterback in my opinion. Yeah, I don't think he's drafted well at all. Brett says, "Third quarter was calling for all passing plays on my TV while it was boom-chugging Budweiser, we lost but didn't get beat." Young Hendrix says, "Think Dable has enough trust in Daniel to open up his playbook all the way." They were going to find that out because right now I think the conservative nature of the play calling is partly related to probably trying to protect Daniel. He does take shots, targeted shots. Let's see. Jim points out, "Anyone who is alpha doesn't brag about it." Agree. If you're good, you don't have to tell anybody. Authentic points out seven in a row and 13 versus Dak. Yet Dak becomes only the fourth quarterback ever to beat an opponent 13 times in a row. Bob Greasy, Tom Brady, and Steve Young, I believe, was the stat. Yeah, Bob Greasy, did I say Brian Greasy, Bob Greasy, Bob Greasy against the Buffalo Bills, Steve Young against the Rams, Tom Brady against the Bills as well. And now Dak Prescott against the Giants, four quarterbacks ever to beat the same opponent 13 times in a row. Brett agrees. Put Evan Neala-Gard to get the running game going. Barbara says, "Pat, who do you think was the worst?" McAdoo, Shurmur, and Judge. I think Judge was a good head coach. Offensively, he was limited, but I think Judge was a good CEO coach. I do, personally. Obviously, it got ugly near the end. I actually think it goes best to worst head coach there. I would go judge, best, Shurmur, worst, McAdoo in the middle. Michael says, "Anyone notice the Giants have not scored a home touchdown this year." We did notice, Michael, and thank you for pointing that out. Also, I believe the stat now is they've scored, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they've scored like 15 points in the second half in four games, like total. I think they have 15 second half points. Josh points out that the Giants and the Cowboys both suck. Yeah, this was not a fun game to watch. I mean, I love my job, not a fun game to watch. Yikey says, "Chris Canty said two days ago that Joe Burrow did not do enough to win his football game on day night. His stat line was 324 yards, three touchdowns, no turnovers, and a quarterback rating, 127.5." I love it. I love it. Yeah, Brett points out that judge wasn't that bad. Yeah, no, for sure. I thought Joe was good. Gettleman was just ridiculous. I mean, ridiculous. Yikey says, "I find that take to be highly frustrating." Let me see. Oh, the Chris Canty take. When I, the team I root for, literally half a fan base says, "Guys playing well," and he throws for 281, zero touchdowns, interception, 81.5 rating, and includes me having no scoring confidence. You know, these are good questions about, "Is Debo holding back in the playbook with Daniel?" I just think it's about, I really do think, yes, that's part of it. I think that they are max protecting more than they have in the past, past, and then there's fewer guys running routes, and then they're trying to get the ball out and accompany the pressure and the max protect. It's all designed to try to help Daniel Jones. It's all designed to help Daniel Jones not get hit and to have time to deliver the football, but it's resulting in not enough plays down the field and explosives. Joshua says, "Pat Leonard looks like a Sopranos character. I will take that as a compliment." So you're saying, "I look like a TV star. I appreciate that." Devanta Adams won't change a thing if Jones can't hit deep shots, big dog says. We need a quarterback, people, not more, weapons. Yikey says, "Yes, we need Cam Ward." Andre says, "Do they need to bring the fullback back to run the ball?" They have used the fullback at times, you know, nothing's working right now. Authentic says, "I say that too, Pat, our community is great. It really is." Yeah, with everybody learning from each other, no doubt. Mark says, "I figure Neil less past pro risk at guard," right? They just refuse to try him at guard. Evan thinks Daniel Jones should still be the starter. Jonathan says, "Give Dave all his opportunity to draft his quarterback next year before this hot seat talk." Barbara says, "Dimes knows this is his last year on the Giants no matter what." "Yes, Evan, I am still at MetLife, will be wrapping up soon." He played good for DJ for his standards, are very low. I think they praise him just to keep his confidence is what Mike said. Yeah, probably. The team is clearly limited because of Daniel Jones, it's way bigger than this one game, says Mike Jones. Tony points out, "I did not see Elijah Chapman tonight, that is a very good point by you. Listen to these snap counts on defense. Elijah Chapman played only 14 snaps in this game. Macho played 33 on the interior, and then DJ Davidson played 19. Just to give you an idea of how that stacks up to what they've been doing, Chapman has played 24, 16, and 21. Chapman had been playing about, actually he had played 31% of the team snaps coming in, in this game, still around there, 27.5, but yeah, wasn't as effective, obviously, compared to Cleveland easier, or either. Socrates says, "What gets me is the media and definitely Dallas fans are going to say the Cowboys are back and they handled the Giants. Back is the Cowboys played down to us and we played up." Yeah, Socrates, I personally don't think people are coming, maybe, but I would say the dogs are off Mike McCarthy coming out of this game for a week, right? Because obviously, if they lost and went to 0 and 3, it would have been the sky is falling and for good reason. So I would say maybe it's not people panicking about the Cowboys coming out of the game. But that said, I don't think anyone's on a delusion coming out of this, that the Cowboys look like they fixed everything, I mean, I definitely don't think. Barbara says, "I have to hit the sack, work in the morning, good night everyone, Pat, I enjoy your live streams." Barbara, thanks so much, thanks. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds, because Progressive offers discounts for pain and full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it, so your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates, potential savings will vary, not available in all states or situations. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big row as man, then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friends still laugh at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get a $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com/results to claim your credit that's linkedin.com/results. Terms and conditions apply, linkedin. The place to be to be. So much. You really helped jive the conversation tonight. Thank you. Richard says, "Can we say this is an old school game and yes, it's time to bench running back and Jones, interesting." Chris says, "What's more true, shade and scouts aren't evaluating and drafting well enough or Gable and his staff aren't developing the players well enough. Chains picks aren't panning out." I think it's more true that Shane and scouts picks are not the good enough players. Like I also, I don't have confidence in Gable as a game manager, but I think it's when you're just the question you post, I think it's more true that the draft picks aren't panning out than that the players aren't developing. Mike says, "We have a quarterback that does not inspire the team or fan base, it's obvious." Mark Sullivan says, "Greg Joseph's dad, my optometrist's son, was really pissed. Greg Joseph's dad is my optometrist's son, was really pissed, Vikings cut him just to save some money. Joseph was a giant killer." Yeah, he did kill them when he was in Minnesota in that one game for sure. Very interesting there. Too bad they didn't have him to kick those two field goals against the Vikings. Greg seems like a nice guy though, I'm glad he got, I'm glad he got, you know, bounced back and hit these five. Evan says, "I could only imagine what will happen next week against Seattle and then against the Bengals and Eagles and Steelers." Lucas says, "I would be calling the Ravens if you want receiving from your tight ends, ours are very mediocre." Brett says, "We were a second half team and did Jack in the first." What happened? Second half team. What are you talking about? There's six points in the second half. Brett says, "How different was Bones defense this week compared to last week?" I didn't see Pinac or McFadden on many blitzes. Simmons played two soft. Simmons played 13 snaps, Duke Shelley factored in a little bit, Nick McCloud was back, McCloud played 33 snaps, Michael McFadden played a lot, 38 snaps, a linebacker. Simmons came in and a dime package at linebacker. The plan was different against the Browns. I definitely think they saw something in Watson's inability to process and how slowly he was able to see the field and they knew that for Dak, they needed people in coverage and that they would be able to get the ball out quickly and kind of expose things. And also, that blitzing against Cleveland, I have to imagine that Dable maybe had a hand in that or something because that was very out of character for Bowen. I don't think you're going to see that a lot. Mike says, "Singletary looked off tonight a step slow, no gloves was nasty work." Bill says, "All the locker room footage I'm seeing is depressing." Yeah, the players are pissed. Players are pissed. Oh, Mark, you meant Greg Joseph's dad is your optometrist, got it. Yeah, okay, I figured. Yeah, I was a little confused there. So many jobs VF says DJ played well. Oh, Brett's pointing out last couple of seasons. We were a second F team. Yeah, I mean, more juice, better defense previous seasons, more attack mindset, better overall game plan, I think. Lucas says, "Thanks, Pat. Have a good night." You too, Lucas. This has been a great chat, everybody. I'm sponsored here on the Talkin' Ball Live with Pat Leonard Postgame by Bet Online, or Bet Online. Used to be sponsored by Bet Online. Old habits die hard. Sponsored here by MyBookie.ag, they don't allow me one slip up. MyBookie.ag, Pat's Picks is the promo code. Go download Pat's Picks on your, well, I see another question coming in here from Chris. Chris says, "Do you get a sense the players are going to turn on Deble at this point?" Lucas, I don't know. I mean, Simmons is a player that wasn't happy, voiced it, Hyatt is a player that wasn't happy, voiced it. I think if the losing continues, you could see something like that happen with this team based on the dynamic I've seen, which is why I was reporting everything I was at the beginning of the season before they got their first win, so I think it's still on that kind of watch for sure. So let me try this again. It's late, it's after 2 a.m., but we are sponsored here by MyBookie. MyBookie is proud to partner with Talkin' Ball Live with Pat Leonard, and they have a promo code. It's called Pat's Picks. If you use that on the link and all of my social media profiles, if you're a sports better, somebody who likes to bet the over, likes to bet the under, likes to bet underdogs are really hot this season in the NFL, or likes to play the prop bets like my Rico Dattle, rushing yards and Carrie's prop that both hit tonight, go to MyBookie.aj, click on the link in any of my social media profiles, use the promo code Pat's Picks, and you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make every football season a winning season with MyBookie bet anything, anytime, anywhere with MyBookie. Also, if you're already a member, sign up for their rewards program, MyBookie Plus. Also sponsored by a State 98 Coffee, go to estate98.com/talkin'ball to get a special buy one free deal on this all-natural specialty coffee with no sugar. And brought to you by BoomChaga mushroom super drink, natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. You can pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks, I put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference. It has the ability to lower cholesterol, reduce inflammation, and improve immune and heart health with its beta gloons and antioxidants. That's BoomChaga. Go to BoomChaga.com today to place your first order. And if you use the discount code TalkingBall25 or access it to the QR code on your screen, you'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order. Right now that means a month's supply cost you only $30. Start filling the difference today at BoomChaga.com. Brett says, "Thank you. Thanks a lot, Pat. They turned the lights out on you. Be safe." He also says, "I think the players are ready to rumble next game. If we lose, it's over in the locker room." Bill says, "Pat, go to bed, go home, we care about you, Pat." All right. On that note, I'm out of here. Thank you so much for listening. Please rate, review, and subscribe on Apple, Spotify for audio, on the P on NFL YouTube page here. On the Believe Network, this is Pat Leonard from the New York Daily News, signing off from MetLife Stadium, Giants 1 and 3 in the basement of the NFC East, big stakes going into Week 5 against the Seattle Seahawks on the road. Jonathan Pride checks in with BoomChaga and Illmatic, much love, Pat. Keep going. See you guys next time on Talking Ball, Post Game Live. Bingo. All right, Phil, we're recording now. So it's live. Go ahead. Pick on me the way that you want to. Did I say that? I would say that to my son, man. I mean, come on, man. Just go. This isn't CBS. All right. Be quiet for a few seconds. Why would people want to listen to the Sims complete podcast? Well, a couple of things. One, if you like to see sons pick on their father, this might be the place. If you want to see a place where the father just kicks he out of his son, this will be the place. What do you like about it, Matt? Ditto. Father, son, dynamic duo talking about the game of football that we love and share and appreciate together. And, you know, hey, it's an extension of what we did right growing up. I was able to watch my father play football, then obviously watch him as a broadcaster. And then he taught me the game of football and share the wisdom that he learned throughout his playing career. And, you know, hey, sometimes we're full of it and sometimes we actually know a thing or two. Well, we do do a lot of research. At least I do. You're a little spotty, but you know, you're you hang in there. It's fun. I love doing this. And it's been awesome. Sims complete. Check us out wherever your podcasts are available on the Believe Network. Appreciate it. [BLANK_AUDIO]